Resurrecting a 1219 DUAL Turntable

[RF]

Hi All,

I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
connector on the end of the output wires was an
old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to
the wires to connect into the turntable socket.

I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and
then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the
problems is with the turntable.

I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a multimeter
to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the arm - with
the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked the
continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the cartridge
with the Dual's ground connector, which was attached to the shell of the
amplifier. Continuity was present.

Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit
was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is very
unlikely. Old age possibly?

Opinions appreciated.

TIA

RF

[Tim Schwartz]

RF wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
> connector on the end of the output wires was an
> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to
> the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>
> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
> but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
> Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
> directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
> connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and
> then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the
> problems is with the turntable.
>
> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a multimeter
> to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the arm - with
> the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked the
> continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the cartridge
> with the Dual's ground connector, which was attached to the shell of the
> amplifier. Continuity was present.
>
> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit
> was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is very
> unlikely. Old age possibly?
>
> Opinions appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> RF
>
>
Hello,

Are you feeding the turntable into a PHONO input? Newer amps may not
have one. Phono cartridges have much lower output than other sources,
and require EQ to sound right. You might need a phono preamp.

There is also the possibility that you still have some wiring or
connection issues, less likely (though possible) is that the cartridge
is bad

Regards,
Tim Schwartz
Bristol Electronics

[Tim Schwartz]

RF wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
> connector on the end of the output wires was an
> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to
> the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>
> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
> but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
> Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
> directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
> connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and
> then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the
> problems is with the turntable.
>
> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a multimeter
> to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the arm - with
> the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked the
> continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the cartridge
> with the Dual's ground connector, which was attached to the shell of the
> amplifier. Continuity was present.
>
> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit
> was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is very
> unlikely. Old age possibly?
>
> Opinions appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> RF
>
>
Hello,

Are you feeding the turntable into a PHONO input? Newer amps may not
have one. Phono cartridges have much lower output than other sources,
and require EQ to sound right. You might need a phono preamp.

There is also the possibility that you still have some wiring or
connection issues, less likely (though possible) is that the cartridge
is bad

Regards,
Tim Schwartz
Bristol Electronics

[Eeyore]

RF wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
> connector on the end of the output wires was an
> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to
> the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>
> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
> but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
> Sony amplifier

Which input ?


> that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
> directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
> connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and
> then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the
> problems is with the turntable.

The output voltage from a magnetic cartridge is mere millivolts and has to
be boosted by a pre-amp that also amplifies the bass frequencies more than
the treble (RIAA equalisation).

Connecting it to a sound card or input on an amplifier that's not intended
for cartidges (the correct type is normally marked 'phono') will very likely
be virtually inaudible.

You need the right kind of amplifier or a pre-amp unit.

Graham

[David Ballinger]

"RF" > wrote in message
. net...
> Hi All,
>
> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of recording
> a few hundred 33rpm records.
> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
> connector on the end of the output wires was an
> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with one
> that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to the
> wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>
> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
> but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
> Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
> directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
> connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and then
> to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the problems
> is with the turntable.
>
> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a multimeter
> to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the arm - with the
> cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked the continuity of
> the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the cartridge with the Dual's
> ground connector, which was attached to the shell of the amplifier.
> Continuity was present.
>
> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit was
> in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is very
> unlikely. Old age possibly?
>
> Opinions appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> RF
>
>
As the owner of a Dual 1019, I have been there and done that.
You didn't say if you had a magnetic or ceramic cartridge, ceramics don't
age well, but it would be strange for both sides of a magnetic to fail. The
rubber bits get hard and sound poor, but still have some output.
I haven't had the pleasure of a 1219, but on the 1019 the silver contact
between the head shell and the tone arm on mine never does well on the first
attempt. It is soft and doesn't have enough spring tension to make good
contact and the silver tarnishes badly. It tends to heal electrically with
the sealing current of an ohmmeter only for one side or other going randomly
open during play. Another thing to check some models had a mute switch that
shorts out the audio path whenever the tonearm isn't down and playing, two
little leaf switches that run on a cam on the large gear that operates the
tonearm return mechanism, if the old grease gets stiff it might not move
properly. They are good machines, but do require occasional maintenance and
lubrication, and if you haven't yet check the rubber drive roller, it has
probably gotten a bit hard.
Good luck, and post a note when you solve this one.
David_____________

[RF]

Tim Schwartz wrote:
> RF wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
>> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
>> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
>> connector on the end of the output wires was an
>> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
>> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors
>> to the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>>
>> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical
>> motions but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output
>> wires to a Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound
>> - and then directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also
>> no sound. I connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the
>> amplifier and then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both
>> times, so the problems is with the turntable.
>>
>> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a
>> multimeter to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the
>> arm - with the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked
>> the continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the
>> cartridge with the Dual's ground connector, which was attached to the
>> shell of the amplifier. Continuity was present.
>>
>> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
>> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit
>> was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is
>> very unlikely. Old age possibly?
>>
>> Opinions appreciated.
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> RF
>>
>>
> Hello,
>
> Are you feeding the turntable into a PHONO input? Newer amps may
> not have one. Phono cartridges have much lower output than other
> sources, and require EQ to sound right. You might need a phono preamp.
>
> There is also the possibility that you still have some wiring or
> connection issues, less likely (though possible) is that the cartridge
> is bad
>
> Regards,
> Tim Schwartz
> Bristol Electronics
>


Thank you Tim.

The Sony receiver/amplifier has a Phono input and that's what I used. I
should have reported that
in my first post.

I'm a bit puzzled that the phono is connected to a ground screw on the
Sony but it has a 2-pin
plug for its 110v supply.

RF

[RF]

Eeyore wrote:
>
> RF wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
>> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
>> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
>> connector on the end of the output wires was an
>> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
>> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to
>> the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>>
>> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
>> but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
>> Sony amplifier

Thanks Graham.

> Which input ?

The Sony amplifier has a Phono input and that's what I used. I should
have reported that
in my first post.

>> that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
>> directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
>> connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and
>> then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the
>> problems is with the turntable.
>
> The output voltage from a magnetic cartridge is mere millivolts and has to
> be boosted by a pre-amp that also amplifies the bass frequencies more than
> the treble (RIAA equalisation).
>
> Connecting it to a sound card or input on an amplifier that's not intended
> for cartidges (the correct type is normally marked 'phono') will very likely
> be virtually inaudible.

The input I used is labeled Phono.

> You need the right kind of amplifier or a pre-amp unit.

It does have the right kind of input connection. I have used it often in
the past.

> Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"RF" > wrote in message
. net

> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone
> belly up?

I've seen this happen. The cartridge that was dead was a Stanton.

> The stylus appears to be ok. The transparent
> cover that came with the unit was in place for years, so
> damage to the cartridge from storage is very unlikely.
> Old age possibly?

Yes.

I'd recommend replacing it with a Shure M97xE

[RF]

David Ballinger wrote:
> "RF" > wrote in message
> . net...
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of recording
>> a few hundred 33rpm records.
>> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
>> connector on the end of the output wires was an
>> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with one
>> that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to the
>> wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>>
>> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
>> but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
>> Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
>> directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
>> connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and then
>> to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the problems
>> is with the turntable.
>>
>> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a multimeter
>> to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the arm - with the
>> cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked the continuity of
>> the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the cartridge with the Dual's
>> ground connector, which was attached to the shell of the amplifier.
>> Continuity was present.
>>
>> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
>> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit was
>> in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is very
>> unlikely. Old age possibly?
>>
>> Opinions appreciated.
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> RF

Thanks David.

>>
> As the owner of a Dual 1019, I have been there and done that.

Good news!

> You didn't say if you had a magnetic or ceramic cartridge, ceramics don't
> age well, but it would be strange for both sides of a magnetic to fail. The
> rubber bits get hard and sound poor, but still have some output.

It's a Shure M55E. According to:
http://www.arcticcorsair.f9.co.uk/audio/kit/shure-m55.html
it's a magnetic cartridge.

> I haven't had the pleasure of a 1219, but on the 1019 the silver contact
> between the head shell and the tone arm on mine never does well on the first
> attempt. It is soft and doesn't have enough spring tension to make good
> contact and the silver tarnishes badly.

At the top rear of the cartridge there are 4 contacts with a little
silvering - solder probably
to prevent copper tarnish. The two outer contacts are supposed to
connect with the
right and left audio channel contacts in the tone arm and the two middle
contacts are grounds.
I don't see any contacts in the shell at that height. There are four
soldered contacts in the
tone arm but at a level lower than the cartridge.

I pulled off all four contacts from the pins at the rear of the
cartridge and pushed them back on again.
The four contacts at the top rear of the cartridge I moved gently and
found that they were springy and
could move in and out a little. I'm puzzled about how they make contact
with the tone arm because there is
nothing silvered at their level in the arm.

There is also a narrow springy contact at the top of the rear middle of
the tone arm. It is attached at the
top and tapers near the bottom. I think this is probably meant to retain
the cartridge in place.

I reassembled and attempted to play the record but still no sound.

> It tends to heal electrically with
> the sealing current of an ohmmeter only for one side or other going randomly
> open during play.

That location is not too easy to view. I used a small mirror that helped
but it doesn't show me any
silvered contacts that would mate with the four cartridge contacts.

> Another thing to check some models had a mute switch that
> shorts out the audio path whenever the tonearm isn't down and playing, two
> little leaf switches that run on a cam on the large gear that operates the
> tonearm return mechanism, if the old grease gets stiff it might not move
> properly.

This switch I would like to find. I take it is the large gear is the
plastic (or similar)
amber- colored one - about 4"-5" across or thereabouts. Will check it
soon. I'm realiy
getting tired of taking the turntable out of the box and replacing it.
Methinks I'll
temporarily remove those three pesky little screws that are always in
the way.

> They are good machines, but do require occasional maintenance and
> lubrication, and if you haven't yet check the rubber drive roller, it has
> probably gotten a bit hard.

If this is the roller that drives the brass spindle, it is in excellent
shape. Firm and flexible.
The head moves across the record as it always did in the past. I have no
apparent
problem with the mechanicals.

> Good luck, and post a note when you solve this one.
> David_____________

Thanks again David. I'll keep in touch about it.

RF

[David Ballinger]

"RF" > wrote in message
...
> David Ballinger wrote:
>> "RF" > wrote in message
>> . net...
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
>>> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
>>> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
>>> connector on the end of the output wires was an
>>> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
>>> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to
>>> the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>>>
>>> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
>>> but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
>>> Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
>>> directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
>>> connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and
>>> then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the
>>> problems is with the turntable.
>>>
>>> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a multimeter
>>> to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the arm - with
>>> the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked the
>>> continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the cartridge
>>> with the Dual's ground connector, which was attached to the shell of the
>>> amplifier. Continuity was present.
>>>
>>> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
>>> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit
>>> was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is very
>>> unlikely. Old age possibly?
>>>
>>> Opinions appreciated.
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> RF
>
> Thanks David.
>
>>>
>> As the owner of a Dual 1019, I have been there and done that.
>
> Good news!
>
>> You didn't say if you had a magnetic or ceramic cartridge, ceramics don't
>> age well, but it would be strange for both sides of a magnetic to fail.
>> The rubber bits get hard and sound poor, but still have some output.
>
> It's a Shure M55E. According to:
> http://www.arcticcorsair.f9.co.uk/audio/kit/shure-m55.html
> it's a magnetic cartridge.
>
>> I haven't had the pleasure of a 1219, but on the 1019 the silver contact
>> between the head shell and the tone arm on mine never does well on the
>> first attempt. It is soft and doesn't have enough spring tension to make
>> good contact and the silver tarnishes badly.
>
> At the top rear of the cartridge there are 4 contacts with a little
> silvering - solder probably
> to prevent copper tarnish. The two outer contacts are supposed to connect
> with the
> right and left audio channel contacts in the tone arm and the two middle
> contacts are grounds.
> I don't see any contacts in the shell at that height. There are four
> soldered contacts in the
> tone arm but at a level lower than the cartridge.
>
> I pulled off all four contacts from the pins at the rear of the cartridge
> and pushed them back on again.
> The four contacts at the top rear of the cartridge I moved gently and
> found that they were springy and
> could move in and out a little. I'm puzzled about how they make contact
> with the tone arm because there is
> nothing silvered at their level in the arm.
>
> There is also a narrow springy contact at the top of the rear middle of
> the tone arm. It is attached at the
> top and tapers near the bottom. I think this is probably meant to retain
> the cartridge in place.
>
> I reassembled and attempted to play the record but still no sound.
>
>> It tends to heal electrically with the sealing current of an ohmmeter
>> only for one side or other going randomly open during play.
>
> That location is not too easy to view. I used a small mirror that helped
> but it doesn't show me any
> silvered contacts that would mate with the four cartridge contacts.
>
>> Another thing to check some models had a mute switch that shorts out the
>> audio path whenever the tonearm isn't down and playing, two little leaf
>> switches that run on a cam on the large gear that operates the tonearm
>> return mechanism, if the old grease gets stiff it might not move
>> properly.
>
> This switch I would like to find. I take it is the large gear is the
> plastic (or similar)
> amber- colored one - about 4"-5" across or thereabouts. Will check it
> soon. I'm realiy
> getting tired of taking the turntable out of the box and replacing it.
> Methinks I'll
> temporarily remove those three pesky little screws that are always in the
> way.
>
>> They are good machines, but do require occasional maintenance and
>> lubrication, and if you haven't yet check the rubber drive roller, it has
>> probably gotten a bit hard.
>
> If this is the roller that drives the brass spindle, it is in excellent
> shape. Firm and flexible.
> The head moves across the record as it always did in the past. I have no
> apparent
> problem with the mechanicals.
>
>> Good luck, and post a note when you solve this one.
>> David_____________
>
> Thanks again David. I'll keep in touch about it.
>
> RF

Found this hope it helps picture is worth a thousand words and push that
little piece of metal you use to pick up the tonearm, the one on the side of
the cartridge shell, toward the rear of the cartridge holder it will arc
back about 10 degrees and release the head shell; see manual---
a.. www.vinylengine.com/library_model.php?make=Dual&selected_model=1219
you should see all the contacts, hope this helps
David_____________

[RF]

David Ballinger wrote:
> "RF" > wrote in message
> ...
>> David Ballinger wrote:
>>> "RF" > wrote in message
>>> . net...
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
>>>> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
>>>> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
>>>> connector on the end of the output wires was an
>>>> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
>>>> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to
>>>> the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>>>>
>>>> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
>>>> but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
>>>> Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
>>>> directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
>>>> connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and
>>>> then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the
>>>> problems is with the turntable.
>>>>
>>>> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a multimeter
>>>> to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the arm - with
>>>> the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked the
>>>> continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the cartridge
>>>> with the Dual's ground connector, which was attached to the shell of the
>>>> amplifier. Continuity was present.
>>>>
>>>> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
>>>> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit
>>>> was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is very
>>>> unlikely. Old age possibly?
>>>>
>>>> Opinions appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>>
>>>> RF
>> Thanks David.
>>
>>> As the owner of a Dual 1019, I have been there and done that.
>> Good news!
>>
>>> You didn't say if you had a magnetic or ceramic cartridge, ceramics don't
>>> age well, but it would be strange for both sides of a magnetic to fail.
>>> The rubber bits get hard and sound poor, but still have some output.
>> It's a Shure M55E. According to:
>> http://www.arcticcorsair.f9.co.uk/audio/kit/shure-m55.html
>> it's a magnetic cartridge.
>>
>>> I haven't had the pleasure of a 1219, but on the 1019 the silver contact
>>> between the head shell and the tone arm on mine never does well on the
>>> first attempt. It is soft and doesn't have enough spring tension to make
>>> good contact and the silver tarnishes badly.
>> At the top rear of the cartridge there are 4 contacts with a little
>> silvering - solder probably
>> to prevent copper tarnish. The two outer contacts are supposed to connect
>> with the
>> right and left audio channel contacts in the tone arm and the two middle
>> contacts are grounds.
>> I don't see any contacts in the shell at that height. There are four
>> soldered contacts in the
>> tone arm but at a level lower than the cartridge.
>>
>> I pulled off all four contacts from the pins at the rear of the cartridge
>> and pushed them back on again.
>> The four contacts at the top rear of the cartridge I moved gently and
>> found that they were springy and
>> could move in and out a little. I'm puzzled about how they make contact
>> with the tone arm because there is
>> nothing silvered at their level in the arm.
>>
>> There is also a narrow springy contact at the top of the rear middle of
>> the tone arm. It is attached at the
>> top and tapers near the bottom. I think this is probably meant to retain
>> the cartridge in place.
>>
>> I reassembled and attempted to play the record but still no sound.
>>
>>> It tends to heal electrically with the sealing current of an ohmmeter
>>> only for one side or other going randomly open during play.
>> That location is not too easy to view. I used a small mirror that helped
>> but it doesn't show me any
>> silvered contacts that would mate with the four cartridge contacts.
>>
>>> Another thing to check some models had a mute switch that shorts out the
>>> audio path whenever the tonearm isn't down and playing, two little leaf
>>> switches that run on a cam on the large gear that operates the tonearm
>>> return mechanism, if the old grease gets stiff it might not move
>>> properly.
>> This switch I would like to find. I take it is the large gear is the
>> plastic (or similar)
>> amber- colored one - about 4"-5" across or thereabouts. Will check it
>> soon. I'm realiy
>> getting tired of taking the turntable out of the box and replacing it.
>> Methinks I'll
>> temporarily remove those three pesky little screws that are always in the
>> way.
>>
>>> They are good machines, but do require occasional maintenance and
>>> lubrication, and if you haven't yet check the rubber drive roller, it has
>>> probably gotten a bit hard.
>> If this is the roller that drives the brass spindle, it is in excellent
>> shape. Firm and flexible.
>> The head moves across the record as it always did in the past. I have no
>> apparent
>> problem with the mechanicals.
>>
>>> Good luck, and post a note when you solve this one.
>>> David_____________
>> Thanks again David. I'll keep in touch about it.
>>
>> RF
>
> Found this hope it helps picture is worth a thousand words and push that
> little piece of metal you use to pick up the tonearm, the one on the side of
> the cartridge shell, toward the rear of the cartridge holder it will arc
> back about 10 degrees and release the head shell; see manual---
> a.. www.vinylengine.com/library_model.php?make=Dual&selected_model=1219
> you should see all the contacts, hope this helps
> David_____________

Thanks again David, especially for the manual.

I have already taken off the cartridge many times.

That is one great manual. You should see what I was given when I bought
mine. It had 7
dinky little drawings and 17 very small photos. Very poor explanations
also.

Still working on it.

Back soon.

RF

[RF]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "RF" > wrote in message
> . net
>
>> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone
>> belly up?
>
> I've seen this happen. The cartridge that was dead was a Stanton.
>
>> The stylus appears to be ok. The transparent
>> cover that came with the unit was in place for years, so
>> damage to the cartridge from storage is very unlikely.
>> Old age possibly?
>
> Yes.
>
> I'd recommend replacing it with a Shure M97xE

Thanks Amy for the suggestion.

I had and still have my eye on that one.

Where to find the best prices?

RF

[Tim Schwartz]

RF wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
> connector on the end of the output wires was an
> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors to
> the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>
> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical motions
> but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output wires to a
> Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound - and then
> directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also no sound. I
> connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the amplifier and
> then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both times, so the
> problems is with the turntable.
>
> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a multimeter
> to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the arm - with
> the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked the
> continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the cartridge
> with the Dual's ground connector, which was attached to the shell of the
> amplifier. Continuity was present.
>
> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit
> was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is very
> unlikely. Old age possibly?
>
> Opinions appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> RF
>
>
Good morning.

One more thought that you should make sure the muting switch is
unmuting. with the headshell removed and the turntable off 9arm in rest
position) you should read a short on the hot to ground of each phono
plug. With the turntable running and the arm over the platter (you can
leave the cueing up) it should show open circuit. If you try this with
the cartridge installed, you should see the cartridge windings, usually
a few hundred to a few thousand ohms.

Regards,
Tim

[RF]

Tim Schwartz wrote:
> RF wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
>> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
>> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
>> connector on the end of the output wires was an
>> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
>> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors
>> to the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>>
>> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical
>> motions but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output
>> wires to a Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound
>> - and then directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also
>> no sound. I connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the
>> amplifier and then to the rear of my computer and there was sound both
>> times, so the problems is with the turntable.
>>
>> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a
>> multimeter to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the
>> arm - with the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked
>> the continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the
>> cartridge with the Dual's ground connector, which was attached to the
>> shell of the amplifier. Continuity was present.
>>
>> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
>> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the unit
>> was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage is
>> very unlikely. Old age possibly?
>>
>> Opinions appreciated.
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> RF
>>
>>
> Good morning.
>
> One more thought that you should make sure the muting switch is
> unmuting. with the headshell removed and the turntable off 9arm in rest
> position) you should read a short on the hot to ground of each phono
> plug. With the turntable running and the arm over the platter (you can
> leave the cueing up) it should show open circuit. If you try this with
> the cartridge installed, you should see the cartridge windings, usually
> a few hundred to a few thousand ohms.
>
> Regards,
> Tim

Thank you Tim.

With the cartridge removed, and the tone arm in its resting place, I can
measure the
resistance from each RCA plug to the 4 contacts at the end of the tone
arm. From
the red RCA plug, the resistance is zero to the left contact on the tone
arm - that
connects with the red wire on the cartridge. To all the other 3 contacts
it is infinity.
Same story for the black RCA plug - zero resistance to the contact on
the right in
the tone arm and infinity to all the other three contacts.

I had trouble trying to measure when the arm was over the platter with
the cartridge in place.
Without the cartridge, the arm just moved to the edge of the platter and
returned to
its resting place when I started the platter rotating. Ideally I would
like to remove the arm
but that might create even more trouble. I think I'm in deep enough already.

[Tim Schwartz]

RF wrote:
> Tim Schwartz wrote:
>> RF wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
>>> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
>>> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
>>> connector on the end of the output wires was an
>>> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it with
>>> one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade connectors
>>> to the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>>>
>>> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical
>>> motions but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output
>>> wires to a Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no sound
>>> - and then directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer - also
>>> no sound. I connected the output wires of a tape unit first to the
>>> amplifier and then to the rear of my computer and there was sound
>>> both times, so the problems is with the turntable.
>>>
>>> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a
>>> multimeter to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on the
>>> arm - with the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I checked
>>> the continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear of the
>>> cartridge with the Dual's ground connector, which was attached to the
>>> shell of the amplifier. Continuity was present.
>>>
>>> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
>>> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the
>>> unit was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage
>>> is very unlikely. Old age possibly?
>>>
>>> Opinions appreciated.
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> RF
>>>
>>>
>> Good morning.
>>
>> One more thought that you should make sure the muting switch is
>> unmuting. with the headshell removed and the turntable off 9arm in
>> rest position) you should read a short on the hot to ground of each
>> phono plug. With the turntable running and the arm over the platter
>> (you can leave the cueing up) it should show open circuit. If you
>> try this with the cartridge installed, you should see the cartridge
>> windings, usually a few hundred to a few thousand ohms.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tim
>
> Thank you Tim.
>
> With the cartridge removed, and the tone arm in its resting place, I can
> measure the
> resistance from each RCA plug to the 4 contacts at the end of the tone
> arm. From
> the red RCA plug, the resistance is zero to the left contact on the tone
> arm - that
> connects with the red wire on the cartridge. To all the other 3 contacts
> it is infinity.
> Same story for the black RCA plug - zero resistance to the contact on
> the right in
> the tone arm and infinity to all the other three contacts.
>
> I had trouble trying to measure when the arm was over the platter with
> the cartridge in place.
> Without the cartridge, the arm just moved to the edge of the platter and
> returned to
> its resting place when I started the platter rotating. Ideally I would
> like to remove the arm
> but that might create even more trouble. I think I'm in deep enough
> already.
>
>
>
>
Hello again. DON'T remove the arm!!! Get the arm over the platter and
UNPLUG the turntable from the wall, it will stop spinning.

I though you said you had replaced the RCA cables. If you have the
original colors, then black is right and white is left. The head shell
should be:

Red=Right hot
Green=Right ground (also commoned to the chassis)
White=Left hot
Blue = left ground.

If you are using the original Dual RCA plugs, then bad ground (often
2-3 ohms or even open) are a common problem. Once you have verified
that the wiring to the arm is OK then look at the head shell. On a
1219, the contacts are on the rear edge of the head shell and can either
be the early spring metal type or the later spring loaded pins.
Corrosion of the contacts and bad crimps of the wires are also common on
Dual head shells. If the contacts on your head shell are all at the
top, then you have a 10 series head shell forced on to a 12 series
turntable, and that won't work.

Regards,
Tim

[RF]

Tim Schwartz wrote:
> RF wrote:
>> Tim Schwartz wrote:
>>> RF wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
>>>> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
>>>> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
>>>> connector on the end of the output wires was an
>>>> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it
>>>> with one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade
>>>> connectors to the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>>>>
>>>> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical
>>>> motions but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output
>>>> wires to a Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no
>>>> sound - and then directly to the Audio In on the back of my computer
>>>> - also no sound. I connected the output wires of a tape unit first
>>>> to the amplifier and then to the rear of my computer and there was
>>>> sound both times, so the problems is with the turntable.
>>>>
>>>> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a
>>>> multimeter to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on
>>>> the arm - with the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I
>>>> checked the continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear
>>>> of the cartridge with the Dual's ground connector, which was
>>>> attached to the shell of the amplifier. Continuity was present.
>>>>
>>>> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up? The
>>>> stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with the
>>>> unit was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from storage
>>>> is very unlikely. Old age possibly?
>>>>
>>>> Opinions appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>>
>>>> RF
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Good morning.
>>>
>>> One more thought that you should make sure the muting switch is
>>> unmuting. with the headshell removed and the turntable off 9arm in
>>> rest position) you should read a short on the hot to ground of each
>>> phono plug. With the turntable running and the arm over the platter
>>> (you can leave the cueing up) it should show open circuit. If you
>>> try this with the cartridge installed, you should see the cartridge
>>> windings, usually a few hundred to a few thousand ohms.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tim
>>
>> Thank you Tim.
>>
>> With the cartridge removed, and the tone arm in its resting place, I
>> can measure the
>> resistance from each RCA plug to the 4 contacts at the end of the tone
>> arm. From
>> the red RCA plug, the resistance is zero to the left contact on the
>> tone arm - that
>> connects with the red wire on the cartridge. To all the other 3
>> contacts it is infinity.
>> Same story for the black RCA plug - zero resistance to the contact
>> on the right in
>> the tone arm and infinity to all the other three contacts.
>>
>> I had trouble trying to measure when the arm was over the platter with
>> the cartridge in place.
>> Without the cartridge, the arm just moved to the edge of the platter
>> and returned to
>> its resting place when I started the platter rotating. Ideally I would
>> like to remove the arm
>> but that might create even more trouble. I think I'm in deep enough
>> already.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Hello again. DON'T remove the arm!!! Get the arm over the platter and
> UNPLUG the turntable from the wall, it will stop spinning.

Thanks Tim for the tip.

> I though you said you had replaced the RCA cables.

The old cable had a large - about 1/2" diameter - German plug with about
5 pins.
It didn't fit the amplifier (15 years younger) so I replaced the cord
with one that has two RCA plugs,
one red, one black. I made sure the red RCA plug was on the same wire as
the corresponding red
red wire on the cartridge. The Black RCA plug is on the same wire as the
catrridge's white wire.
With the arm on the rest, continuity tests confirm that these are correct.

If you have the
> original colors, then black is right and white is left. The head shell
> should be:
>
> Red=Right hot
> Green=Right ground (also commoned to the chassis)
> White=Left hot
> Blue = left ground.
>
Looking from the top and front of the cartridge, my wires are from left
to right red,
green, blue and white - like yours.

> If you are using the original Dual RCA plugs, then bad ground (often
> 2-3 ohms or even open) are a common problem. Once you have verified
> that the wiring to the arm is OK then look at the head shell.

Will work on that soon.

On a
> 1219, the contacts are on the rear edge of the head shell and can either
> be the early spring metal type or the later spring loaded pins.
> Corrosion of the contacts and bad crimps of the wires are also common on
> Dual head shells. If the contacts on your head shell are all at the
> top, then you have a 10 series head shell forced on to a 12 series
> turntable, and that won't work.

My Shure M55E is much more recent than the turntable. The contacts
appear to be
springy copper with some solder applied at the contact points. They can
move in and out
of the cartridge a little.

More bad news. I have been told that an amplifier that does not buzz
when a metal pin
is placed (and held) in the phono connection, is probably dead, so I may
have to get a
new mini amplifier. I guess that should cost less than a repair.

> Regards,
> Tim

Thanks again for your help.

RF

[RF]

RF wrote:
> Tim Schwartz wrote:
>> RF wrote:
>>> Tim Schwartz wrote:
>>>> RF wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have taken my 1219 Dual out of a closet with the intention of
>>>>> recording a few hundred 33rpm records.
>>>>> Mechanically it works fine but electrically is sems to be dead. The
>>>>> connector on the end of the output wires was an
>>>>> old antique, and the cord was looking doubtful, so I replaced it
>>>>> with one that had two RCA connectors. I had to solder two spade
>>>>> connectors to the wires to connect into the turntable socket.
>>>>>
>>>>> I loaded a record and it went through all the correct mechanical
>>>>> motions but there was no sound out. I connected the DUAL's 2 output
>>>>> wires to a Sony amplifier that had speakers attached - still no
>>>>> sound - and then directly to the Audio In on the back of my
>>>>> computer - also no sound. I connected the output wires of a tape
>>>>> unit first to the amplifier and then to the rear of my computer and
>>>>> there was sound both times, so the problems is with the turntable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I checked the continuity of the output cables by connecting a
>>>>> multimeter to each RCA connector and the corresponding contact on
>>>>> the arm - with the cartridge removed. Each was continuous. Then I
>>>>> checked the continuity of the two inner ground contacts at the rear
>>>>> of the cartridge with the Dual's ground connector, which was
>>>>> attached to the shell of the amplifier. Continuity was present.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it reasonable to assume that the cartridge has gone belly up?
>>>>> The stylus appears to be ok. The transparent cover that came with
>>>>> the unit was in place for years, so damage to the cartridge from
>>>>> storage is very unlikely. Old age possibly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Opinions appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> TIA
>>>>>
>>>>> RF
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Good morning.
>>>>
>>>> One more thought that you should make sure the muting switch is
>>>> unmuting. with the headshell removed and the turntable off 9arm in
>>>> rest position) you should read a short on the hot to ground of each
>>>> phono plug. With the turntable running and the arm over the platter
>>>> (you can leave the cueing up) it should show open circuit. If you
>>>> try this with the cartridge installed, you should see the cartridge
>>>> windings, usually a few hundred to a few thousand ohms.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Thank you Tim.
>>>
>>> With the cartridge removed, and the tone arm in its resting place, I
>>> can measure the
>>> resistance from each RCA plug to the 4 contacts at the end of the
>>> tone arm. From
>>> the red RCA plug, the resistance is zero to the left contact on the
>>> tone arm - that
>>> connects with the red wire on the cartridge. To all the other 3
>>> contacts it is infinity.
>>> Same story for the black RCA plug - zero resistance to the contact
>>> on the right in
>>> the tone arm and infinity to all the other three contacts.
>>>
>>> I had trouble trying to measure when the arm was over the platter
>>> with the cartridge in place.
>>> Without the cartridge, the arm just moved to the edge of the platter
>>> and returned to
>>> its resting place when I started the platter rotating. Ideally I
>>> would like to remove the arm
>>> but that might create even more trouble. I think I'm in deep enough
>>> already.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Hello again. DON'T remove the arm!!! Get the arm over the platter
>> and UNPLUG the turntable from the wall, it will stop spinning.
>
> Thanks Tim for the tip.
>
>> I though you said you had replaced the RCA cables.
>
> The old cable had a large - about 1/2" diameter - German plug with about
> 5 pins.
> It didn't fit the amplifier (15 years younger) so I replaced the cord
> with one that has two RCA plugs,
> one red, one black. I made sure the red RCA plug was on the same wire as
> the corresponding red
> red wire on the cartridge. The Black RCA plug is on the same wire as the
> catrridge's white wire.
> With the arm on the rest, continuity tests confirm that these are correct.
>
> If you have the
>> original colors, then black is right and white is left. The head
>> shell should be:
>>
>> Red=Right hot
>> Green=Right ground (also commoned to the chassis)
>> White=Left hot
>> Blue = left ground.
>>
> Looking from the top and front of the cartridge, my wires are from left
> to right red,
> green, blue and white - like yours.
>
>> If you are using the original Dual RCA plugs, then bad ground
>> (often 2-3 ohms or even open) are a common problem. Once you have
>> verified that the wiring to the arm is OK then look at the head shell.

Hi Tim,

The RCA cables are new. I had a simple task of removing the old soldered
cables and replacing them.

I made the measurements with the arm on and off the rest and the results
were the same.

In both cases, I clipped one lead of my meter to an RCA plug contact and
then used the
other lead to probe all four contacts. For example, with the meter
attached to the red lead,
the other probe read 0 ohms for the left (looking from the front of the
arm) and infinity for
all the others. Similarly when I clipped the black RCA plug to the black
lead of the meter,
I had zero ohms with the red lead on the right (white) contact and
infinity to all the other
three contacts.

Sounds like something is not quite right.

TIA

RF