Do I have this correct?

[Jenn]

I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
answer while some students take a quiz:

If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
quality sound, right?

Thanks

[Bill Riel]

In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-612DA6.13135903122007
@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
says...
> I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> answer while some students take a quiz:
>
> If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> quality sound, right?

As far as I know, that should be correct. I have a similar setup at
home, but because I've got a mixed Mac/PC environment I use a Squeezebox
connected to my receiver instead of Airport Express.

The one advantage of the squeezebox is that you can control your
playlist via remote at your stereo. Using Airport Express you'd have to
control the playlist through the notebook (using iTunes).

But, I'm pretty sure that lossless files transmitted this way will sound
identical to CDs.

--
Bill

[Clyde Slick]

On 3 Dec, 16:14, Jenn > wrote:
> I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> answer while some students take a quiz:
>
> If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> quality sound, right?
>
> Thanks

sort of

Don't use an external drive, keep files on internal, or swap out
playlists, but play from the internal.

get a decent DAC that can communicate with your pc.\
in order of preference
optical, firewire or USB
send out in digital from your pc to the dac
..the key is a decent dac
don't use airport express

forget wireless, just wire form pc to dac, to preamp.

and right, use lossless ripping like flac
use EAC program to rip

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> quality sound, right?

I am withholding my opinion on this question until after the Krooborg
finishes snotting all over the thread.

[Clyde Slick]

On 3 Dec, 16:39, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Jenn said:
>
> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> > quality sound, right?
>
> I am withholding my opinion on this question until after the Krooborg
> finishes snotting all over the thread.

I have three sermons at the ready.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"soundhaspriority" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> >I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> > answer while some students take a quiz:
> >
> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> > quality sound, right?
> >
> > Thanks
>
> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But remember that the D/A
> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an electrically noisy
> device, made very cheaply.
>
> Bob Morein
> (310) 237-6511

I see; thanks. Would something like the standard (about $300)
Squeezebox be better?

[Jenn]

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 3 Dec, 16:14, Jenn > wrote:
> > I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> > answer while some students take a quiz:
> >
> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> > quality sound, right?
> >
> > Thanks
>
> sort of
>
> Don't use an external drive, keep files on internal, or swap out
> playlists, but play from the internal.
>
> get a decent DAC that can communicate with your pc.\
> in order of preference
> optical, firewire or USB
> send out in digital from your pc to the dac
> .the key is a decent dac
> don't use airport express
>
> forget wireless, just wire form pc to dac, to preamp.
>
> and right, use lossless ripping like flac
> use EAC program to rip

Interesting..thanks

[Jenn]

In article >,
Bill Riel > wrote:

> In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-612DA6.13135903122007
> @newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
> says...
> > I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> > answer while some students take a quiz:
> >
> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> > quality sound, right?
>
> As far as I know, that should be correct. I have a similar setup at
> home, but because I've got a mixed Mac/PC environment I use a Squeezebox
> connected to my receiver instead of Airport Express.
>
> The one advantage of the squeezebox is that you can control your
> playlist via remote at your stereo. Using Airport Express you'd have to
> control the playlist through the notebook (using iTunes).
>
> But, I'm pretty sure that lossless files transmitted this way will sound
> identical to CDs.
>
> --
> Bill

Thanks for the info

[Jenn]

In article
>,
ScottW > wrote:

> On Dec 3, 1:14 pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> > answer while some students take a quiz:
> >
> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> > quality sound, right?
>
> Sounds right to me... I don't know what the buffer situation is
> along that
> chain.....hopefully there isn't any resource hogs that might screw you
> up. I know windows defender can bring my old machine
> (3.2 G P4) to its knees with disc activity for about 30 sec some
> 5 minutes after ever boot. Those are the kind of problems you
> might have to overcome.
>
> ScottW

I see, thanks

[Jenn]

In article >,
"soundhaspriority" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> >I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> >> > answer while some students take a quiz:
> >> >
> >> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> >> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> >> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> >> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> >> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> >> > quality sound, right?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >>
> >> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But remember that the
> >> D/A
> >> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an electrically noisy
> >> device, made very cheaply.
> >>
> >> Bob Morein
> >> (310) 237-6511
> >
> > I see; thanks. Would something like the standard (about $300)
> > Squeezebox be better?
>
> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating that it's decent.
>
> Bob Morein
> (310) 237-6511

Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this route; it's just
a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I would gain, to tell the
truth, other than the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.

[Clyde Slick]

On 3 Dec, 22:11, Jenn > wrote:
> In article >,
>
>
>
> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> > "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
> > > In article >,
> > > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>
> > >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> > .
> > >> com
> > >> ...
> > >> >I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> > >> > answer while some students take a quiz:
>
> > >> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> > >> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> > >> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> > >> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> > >> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> > >> > quality sound, right?
>
> > >> > Thanks
>
> > >> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But remember that the
> > >> D/A
> > >> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an electrically noisy
> > >> device, made very cheaply.
>
> > >> Bob Morein
> > >> (310) 237-6511
>
> > > I see; thanks. Would something like the standard (about $300)
> > > Squeezebox be better?
>
> > I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating that it's decent.
>
> > Bob Morein
> > (310) 237-6511
>
> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this route; it's just
> a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I would gain, to tell the
> truth, other than the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.

don't .forget about better sound.
if you do it right.



..

[John Stone]

On 12/3/07 9:11 PM, in article
,
"Jenn" > wrote:

> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this route; it's just
> a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I would gain, to tell the
> truth, other than the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.

Jenn
I'm a Mac user and have gone the route of using a Squeezebox 3 for my music
server. It's a great solution, allowing you to mirror your Itunes playlists
on the display, and to sort by artist, genre, year, etc. all by remote
control. It imports all your iTunes info automatically and works seamlessly
over your wireless network. The other nice aspect is the ability to access a
huge array of internet radio stations without any need to connect through a
computer. Playing lossless files, sound quality is indistinguishable from my
CD player. Well worth the $300 cost.

[Clyde Slick]

On 3 Dec, 22:27, "ScottW" > wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > In article >,
> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> >> com
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> >> >> > answer while some students take a quiz:
>
> >> >> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> >> >> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> >> >> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> >> >> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> >> >> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> >> >> > quality sound, right?
>
> >> >> > Thanks
>
> >> >> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But remember that the
> >> >> D/A
> >> >> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an electrically noisy
> >> >> device, made very cheaply.
>
> >> >> Bob Morein
> >> >> (310) 237-6511
>
> >> > I see; thanks. Would something like the standard (about $300)
> >> > Squeezebox be better?
>
> >> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating that it's decent.
>
> >> Bob Morein
> >> (310) 237-6511
>
> > Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this route; it's just
> > a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I would gain, to tell the
> > truth, other than the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
>
> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc changer
> and call it good enough.
>
> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD collection to a hard drive...
> I would strongly encourage you use a RAID config with mirroring.
> You won't be happy having to back that drive up
> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.
>

show her how easy your solution is.
otherwise, a spare external as a back up really is no hassle.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> net
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> gy.
> >> >> com
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> >> >> > answer while some students take a quiz:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your
> >> >> > home
> >> >> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> >> >> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> >> >> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> >> >> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp.
> >> >> > CD
> >> >> > quality sound, right?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks
> >> >>
> >> >> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But remember that the
> >> >> D/A
> >> >> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an electrically
> >> >> noisy
> >> >> device, made very cheaply.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bob Morein
> >> >> (310) 237-6511
> >> >
> >> > I see; thanks. Would something like the standard (about $300)
> >> > Squeezebox be better?
> >>
> >> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating that it's decent.
> >>
> >> Bob Morein
> >> (310) 237-6511
> >
> > Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this route; it's just
> > a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I would gain, to tell the
> > truth, other than the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
>
> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc changer
> and call it good enough.

1300-1400

>
> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD collection to a hard drive...
> I would strongly encourage you use a RAID config with mirroring.
> You won't be happy having to back that drive up
> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.

What's to be unhappy about? Hard drive space is cheap these days, yes?

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a
> quick/dirty answer while some students take a quiz:
>
> If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer
> through your home audio gear, a good route might be: My
> Mac PowerBook (I don't have a desktop anymore) with large
> external drive which would contain sound files losslessly
> ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on
> my preamp. CD quality sound, right?

Depending on your laptop's hard drive and your requirements for storting
music, you might not need that external drive.

If you do go the external drive route, firewire is probably the better
choice for you. If your laptop's hard drive is really small, upgrading it is
an option if that kind of tech support is available to you.

I think that others have listed the popular alternatives to the Airport
express.

Something wireless makes a lot of sense since the host is a laptop.

[Jenn]

In article >,
John Stone > wrote:

> On 12/3/07 9:11 PM, in article
> ,
> "Jenn" > wrote:
>
> > Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this route; it's just
> > a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I would gain, to tell the
> > truth, other than the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
>
> Jenn
> I'm a Mac user and have gone the route of using a Squeezebox 3 for my music
> server. It's a great solution, allowing you to mirror your Itunes playlists
> on the display, and to sort by artist, genre, year, etc. all by remote
> control. It imports all your iTunes info automatically and works seamlessly
> over your wireless network. The other nice aspect is the ability to access a
> huge array of internet radio stations without any need to connect through a
> computer. Playing lossless files, sound quality is indistinguishable from my
> CD player. Well worth the $300 cost.

Thanks, John. Worth considering, for sure. Seems like it would
encourage aural browsing!

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a
> > quick/dirty answer while some students take a quiz:
> >
> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer
> > through your home audio gear, a good route might be: My
> > Mac PowerBook (I don't have a desktop anymore) with large
> > external drive which would contain sound files losslessly
> > ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on
> > my preamp. CD quality sound, right?
>
> Depending on your laptop's hard drive and your requirements for storting
> music, you might not need that external drive.
>
> If you do go the external drive route, firewire is probably the better
> choice for you. If your laptop's hard drive is really small, upgrading it is
> an option if that kind of tech support is available to you.
>
> I think that others have listed the popular alternatives to the Airport
> express.
>
> Something wireless makes a lot of sense since the host is a laptop.

Thanks for the info

[Jenn]

In article >,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> net
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> gy.
> >> >> net
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> odi
> >> >> >> gy.
> >> >> >> com
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> >I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a
> >> >> >> >quick/dirty
> >> >> >> > answer while some students take a quiz:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your
> >> >> >> > home
> >> >> >> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have
> >> >> >> > a
> >> >> >> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain
> >> >> >> > sound
> >> >> >> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something
> >> >> >> > like
> >> >> >> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my
> >> >> >> > preamp.
> >> >> >> > CD
> >> >> >> > quality sound, right?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But remember that
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> D/A
> >> >> >> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an electrically
> >> >> >> noisy
> >> >> >> device, made very cheaply.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Bob Morein
> >> >> >> (310) 237-6511
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I see; thanks. Would something like the standard (about $300)
> >> >> > Squeezebox be better?
> >> >>
> >> >> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating that it's
> >> >> decent.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bob Morein
> >> >> (310) 237-6511
> >> >
> >> > Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this route; it's just
> >> > a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I would gain, to tell the
> >> > truth, other than the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
> >>
> >> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc changer
> >> and call it good enough.
> >
> > 1300-1400
> >
> >>
> >> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD collection to a hard
> >> drive...
> >> I would strongly encourage you use a RAID config with mirroring.
> >> You won't be happy having to back that drive up
> >> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.
> >
> > What's to be unhappy about? Hard drive space is cheap these days, yes?
>
> It's the hours spent ripping CD to hard drive that you'll have to do again
> that you won't like.
>
> ScottW

I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently, so I'm getting
an external drive for Christmas. I was thinking of using that for
music, and buying another as a backup.

[Clyde Slick]

On 3 Dec, 22:59, "ScottW" > wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > In article >,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
>
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> >> net
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> >> gy.
> >> >> >> com
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> >I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> >> >> >> > answer while some students take a quiz:
>
> >> >> >> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your
> >> >> >> > home
> >> >> >> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> >> >> >> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> >> >> >> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> >> >> >> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp.
> >> >> >> > CD
> >> >> >> > quality sound, right?
>
> >> >> >> > Thanks
>
> >> >> >> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But remember that the
> >> >> >> D/A
> >> >> >> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an electrically
> >> >> >> noisy
> >> >> >> device, made very cheaply.
>
> >> >> >> Bob Morein
> >> >> >> (310) 237-6511
>
> >> >> > I see; thanks. Would something like the standard (about $300)
> >> >> > Squeezebox be better?
>
> >> >> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating that it's decent.
>
> >> >> Bob Morein
> >> >> (310) 237-6511
>
> >> > Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this route; it's just
> >> > a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I would gain, to tell the
> >> > truth, other than the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
>
> >> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc changer
> >> and call it good enough.
>
> > 1300-1400
>
> >> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD collection to a hard drive...
> >> I would strongly encourage you use a RAID config with mirroring.
> >> You won't be happy having to back that drive up
> >> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.
>
> > What's to be unhappy about? Hard drive space is cheap these days, yes?
>
> It's the hours spent ripping CD to hard drive that you'll have to do again
> that you won't like.
>
> ScottW

i rip to an external by using pc number 1, hooked up to the internet
so i
can use freedb to auto label my file and folders
then i take the external and copy the files to pc number 2, my
dedicated music server.
so, the files are on both pc number 2 and my external.

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
> ...
>> In article
>> >,
>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>> message
>>>
>>> ...
>>>> In article
>>>> >,
>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>> message
>>>>> .
>>>>> com ...
>>>>>> I know that I can research this in depth, but for
>>>>>> just a quick/dirty answer while some students take a
>>>>>> quiz: If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer
>>>>>> through your home audio gear, a good route might be:
>>>>>> My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a desktop anymore)
>>>>>> with large external drive which would contain sound
>>>>>> files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission
>>>>>> to something like Airport Express, which I would
>>>>>> plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD quality
>>>>>> sound, right? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But
>>>>> remember that the D/A
>>>>> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an
>>>>> electrically noisy device, made very cheaply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>
>>>> I see; thanks. Would something like the standard
>>>> (about $300) Squeezebox be better?
>>>
>>> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating
>>> that it's decent. Bob Morein
>>> (310) 237-6511
>>
>> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this
>> route; it's just a passing thought for now. I'm not
>> sure what I would gain, to tell the truth, other than
>> the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
>
> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc
> changer and call it good enough.

Looks like a new 400 disc DVD changer would be something like $400.

Home CD CD changers are more like $250.

If coded at 128 kBps, 400 1-hour CDs would take up about 25 GB. Less than
double that for 192 kBps.

Finding 25 GB of free space on a modern laptop is not a reach. A larger
laptop with a 100 GB drive could hold 50 GB of music without being too tight
for normal use.

I suspect that any reasonably modern laptop could be upgraded to 100 GB for
less than $250 parts and labor.

> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD collection
> to a hard drive... I would strongly encourage you use a
> RAID config with mirroring.

Like RAID-5 for reliability?

> You won't be happy having to back that drive up

The backup could be as simple as the original discs.

A 100 GB external drive might be an acceptable "mirror" drive - should run
well under $100.

> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.

Laptop hard drives are extra likely to fail or just slow down a lot.

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message

> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 3 Dec, 22:27, "ScottW" > wrote:
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>> message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> In article
>>>> >,
>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>> message
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> >,
>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
>>>>>>> in message
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> com ...
>>>>>>>> I know that I can research this in depth, but for
>>>>>>>> just a quick/dirty answer while some students take
>>>>>>>> a quiz:
>>>
>>>>>>>> If I wanted to go the "play music from your
>>>>>>>> computer through your home
>>>>>>>> audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac
>>>>>>>> PowerBook (I don't have a desktop anymore) with
>>>>>>>> large external drive which would contain sound
>>>>>>>> files losslessly ripped, then wireless
>>>>>>>> transmission to something like Airport Express,
>>>>>>>> which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp.
>>>>>>>> CD quality sound, right?
>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>>>>> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct.
>>>>>>> But remember that the D/A
>>>>>>> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's
>>>>>>> an electrically noisy
>>>>>>> device, made very cheaply.
>>>
>>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>
>>>>>> I see; thanks. Would something like the standard
>>>>>> (about $300) Squeezebox be better?
>>>
>>>>> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews
>>>>> indicating that it's decent.
>>>
>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>
>>>> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this
>>>> route; it's just a passing thought for now. I'm not
>>>> sure what I would gain, to tell the truth, other than
>>>> the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
>>>
>>> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc
>>> changer and call it good enough.
>>>
>>> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD
>>> collection to a hard drive... I would strongly
>>> encourage you use a RAID config with mirroring. You won't be happy
>>> having to back that drive up
>>> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.
>>>
>>
>> show her how easy your solution is.
>
> ?
>
>> otherwise, a spare external as a back up really is no
>> hassle.
>
> I'd rather do the mirror setup once and forget it.
> Backups are automatic and real time. For a desktop its no more
> expensive as an extra drive and all the drive controllers
> support it. Doing it external is probably a little more pricey so I'd
> have to check.
> If she's using external drives to back up external
> drives...that will probably be pretty slow.

An actual RAID-1 mirror is pretty much mission impossible for laptops - room
for only one hard drive.

Modern external FW or USB-2 hard drives will accept backup data at about 5
megabyes per second, or 3-4 minutes per gigabyte. 50 GB would then take
about 3 hours, which is a good unattended job to run while you sleep.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "ScottW" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>> ...
>>> In article >,
>>> "ScottW" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> .
>>>> net ...
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >,
>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gy.
>>>>>> net
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
>>>>>>>> in message
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> odi
>>>>>>>> gy.
>>>>>>>> com
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> I know that I can research this in depth, but for
>>>>>>>>> just a quick/dirty
>>>>>>>>> answer while some students take a quiz:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I wanted to go the "play music from your
>>>>>>>>> computer through your home
>>>>>>>>> audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac
>>>>>>>>> PowerBook (I don't have a
>>>>>>>>> desktop anymore) with large external drive which
>>>>>>>>> would contain sound
>>>>>>>>> files losslessly ripped, then wireless
>>>>>>>>> transmission to something like
>>>>>>>>> Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux
>>>>>>>>> input on my preamp.
>>>>>>>>> CD
>>>>>>>>> quality sound, right?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct.
>>>>>>>> But remember that the
>>>>>>>> D/A
>>>>>>>> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's
>>>>>>>> an electrically noisy
>>>>>>>> device, made very cheaply.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see; thanks. Would something like the standard
>>>>>>> (about $300) Squeezebox be better?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews
>>>>>> indicating that it's decent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go
>>>>> this route; it's just a passing thought for now. I'm
>>>>> not sure what I would gain, to tell the truth, other
>>>>> than the space that my CD collection takes up in the
>>>>> room.
>>>>
>>>> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc
>>>> changer and call it good enough.
>>>
>>> 1300-1400
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD
>>>> collection to a hard drive...
>>>> I would strongly encourage you use a RAID config with
>>>> mirroring. You won't be happy having to back that
>>>> drive up
>>>> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.
>>>
>>> What's to be unhappy about? Hard drive space is cheap
>>> these days, yes?
>>
>> It's the hours spent ripping CD to hard drive that
>> you'll have to do again that you won't like.
>>
>> ScottW
>
> I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently,
> so I'm getting an external drive for Christmas. I was
> thinking of using that for music, and buying another as a
> backup.

Or, get a really big one, and use it for both.

I'm seeing 500 GB drives for a touch over $100.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> net
> >> ...
> >>> In article >,
> >>> "ScottW" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>> y.
> >>>> net ...
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> >,
> >>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>>>> message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> i
> >>>>>> gy.
> >>>>>> net
> >>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> >,
> >>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
> >>>>>>>> in message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> odi
> >>>>>>>> gy.
> >>>>>>>> com
> >>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>> I know that I can research this in depth, but for
> >>>>>>>>> just a quick/dirty
> >>>>>>>>> answer while some students take a quiz:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> If I wanted to go the "play music from your
> >>>>>>>>> computer through your home
> >>>>>>>>> audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac
> >>>>>>>>> PowerBook (I don't have a
> >>>>>>>>> desktop anymore) with large external drive which
> >>>>>>>>> would contain sound
> >>>>>>>>> files losslessly ripped, then wireless
> >>>>>>>>> transmission to something like
> >>>>>>>>> Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux
> >>>>>>>>> input on my preamp.
> >>>>>>>>> CD
> >>>>>>>>> quality sound, right?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct.
> >>>>>>>> But remember that the
> >>>>>>>> D/A
> >>>>>>>> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's
> >>>>>>>> an electrically noisy
> >>>>>>>> device, made very cheaply.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Bob Morein
> >>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I see; thanks. Would something like the standard
> >>>>>>> (about $300) Squeezebox be better?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews
> >>>>>> indicating that it's decent.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bob Morein
> >>>>>> (310) 237-6511
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go
> >>>>> this route; it's just a passing thought for now. I'm
> >>>>> not sure what I would gain, to tell the truth, other
> >>>>> than the space that my CD collection takes up in the
> >>>>> room.
> >>>>
> >>>> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc
> >>>> changer and call it good enough.
> >>>
> >>> 1300-1400
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD
> >>>> collection to a hard drive...
> >>>> I would strongly encourage you use a RAID config with
> >>>> mirroring. You won't be happy having to back that
> >>>> drive up
> >>>> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.
> >>>
> >>> What's to be unhappy about? Hard drive space is cheap
> >>> these days, yes?
> >>
> >> It's the hours spent ripping CD to hard drive that
> >> you'll have to do again that you won't like.
> >>
> >> ScottW
> >
> > I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently,
> > so I'm getting an external drive for Christmas. I was
> > thinking of using that for music, and buying another as a
> > backup.
>
> Or, get a really big one, and use it for both.
>
> I'm seeing 500 GB drives for a touch over $100.

It seems sound (sorry) to have one for music, then back up the music and
my computer hard drive on another. That's if I don't get a bigger
internal drive. If I get a large internal drive, I can just keep the
music there, and use the one external to backup everything.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "ScottW" > wrote in message
> >
> >> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> On 3 Dec, 22:27, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>> y.net...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> >,
> >>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>>>> message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> igy.net
> >>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> >,
> >>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
> >>>>>>>> in message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> odigy.
> >>>>>>>> com ...
> >>>>>>>>> I know that I can research this in depth, but for
> >>>>>>>>> just a quick/dirty answer while some students take
> >>>>>>>>> a quiz:
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> If I wanted to go the "play music from your
> >>>>>>>>> computer through your home
> >>>>>>>>> audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac
> >>>>>>>>> PowerBook (I don't have a desktop anymore) with
> >>>>>>>>> large external drive which would contain sound
> >>>>>>>>> files losslessly ripped, then wireless
> >>>>>>>>> transmission to something like Airport Express,
> >>>>>>>>> which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp.
> >>>>>>>>> CD quality sound, right?
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct.
> >>>>>>>> But remember that the D/A
> >>>>>>>> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's
> >>>>>>>> an electrically noisy
> >>>>>>>> device, made very cheaply.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> Bob Morein
> >>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> I see; thanks. Would something like the standard
> >>>>>>> (about $300) Squeezebox be better?
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews
> >>>>>> indicating that it's decent.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Bob Morein
> >>>>>> (310) 237-6511
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this
> >>>>> route; it's just a passing thought for now. I'm not
> >>>>> sure what I would gain, to tell the truth, other than
> >>>>> the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
> >>>>
> >>>> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc
> >>>> changer and call it good enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD
> >>>> collection to a hard drive... I would strongly
> >>>> encourage you use a RAID config with mirroring. You won't be happy
> >>>> having
> >>>> to back that drive up
> >>>> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> show her how easy your solution is.
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >>> otherwise, a spare external as a back up really is no
> >>> hassle.
> >>
> >> I'd rather do the mirror setup once and forget it.
> >> Backups are automatic and real time. For a desktop its no more
> >> expensive as an extra drive and all the drive controllers
> >> support it. Doing it external is probably a little more pricey so I'd
> >> have
> >> to check.
> >> If she's using external drives to back up external
> >> drives...that will probably be pretty slow.
> >
> > An actual RAID-1 mirror is pretty much mission impossible for laptops -
> > room
> > for only one hard drive.
> >
> > Modern external FW or USB-2 hard drives will accept backup data at about 5
> > megabyes per second, or 3-4 minutes per gigabyte. 50 GB would then take
> > about
> > 3 hours, which is a good unattended job to run while you sleep.
>
> If you don't forget.
>
> ScottW

True, but once I get on a routine, I'm pretty stubborn about it ;-)

[Clyde Slick]

On 3 Dec, 23:07, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:


> > How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc
> > changer and call it good enough.
>
> Looks like a new 400 disc DVD changer would be something like $400.
>
> Home CD CD changers are more like $250.
>
> If coded at 128 kBps, 400 1-hour CDs would take up about 25 GB. Less than
> double that for 192 kBps.
>
> Finding 25 GB of free space on a modern laptop is not a reach. A larger
> laptop with a 100 GB drive could hold 50 GB of music without being too tight
> for normal use.
>
> I suspect that any reasonably modern laptop could be upgraded to 100 GB for
> less than $250 parts and labor.


though Jenn was talking about lossless compression.

i am dedicating a 120 gb laptop just for this purpose, i intend
to fill it with 60 gb of music. about 200 albums
so far 140 albums using 41 gb
i will have more music on my external drive
the laptop cost me $475.
a 200 gb external cost $90

[Jenn]

In article >,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> net
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> gy.
> >> >> net
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> odi
> >> >> >> gy.
> >> >> >> net
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> >> > "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> .pr
> >> >> >> >> odi
> >> >> >> >> gy.
> >> >> >> >> com
> >> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> >> >I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a
> >> >> >> >> >quick/dirty
> >> >> >> >> > answer while some students take a quiz:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through
> >> >> >> >> > your
> >> >> >> >> > home
> >> >> >> >> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't
> >> >> >> >> > have
> >> >> >> >> > a
> >> >> >> >> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain
> >> >> >> >> > sound
> >> >> >> >> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to
> >> >> >> >> > something
> >> >> >> >> > like
> >> >> >> >> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my
> >> >> >> >> > preamp.
> >> >> >> >> > CD
> >> >> >> >> > quality sound, right?
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Thanks
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But remember
> >> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> D/A
> >> >> >> >> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an
> >> >> >> >> electrically
> >> >> >> >> noisy
> >> >> >> >> device, made very cheaply.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Bob Morein
> >> >> >> >> (310) 237-6511
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I see; thanks. Would something like the standard (about $300)
> >> >> >> > Squeezebox be better?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating that it's
> >> >> >> decent.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Bob Morein
> >> >> >> (310) 237-6511
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this route; it's
> >> >> > just
> >> >> > a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I would gain, to tell
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > truth, other than the space that my CD collection takes up in the
> >> >> > room.
> >> >>
> >> >> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc changer
> >> >> and call it good enough.
> >> >
> >> > 1300-1400
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD collection to a hard
> >> >> drive...
> >> >> I would strongly encourage you use a RAID config with mirroring.
> >> >> You won't be happy having to back that drive up
> >> >> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.
> >> >
> >> > What's to be unhappy about? Hard drive space is cheap these days, yes?
> >>
> >> It's the hours spent ripping CD to hard drive that you'll have to do again
> >> that you won't like.
> >>
> >> ScottW
> >
> > I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently, so I'm getting
> > an external drive for Christmas. I was thinking of using that for
> > music, and buying another as a backup.
>
> You can get RAID external drives...but they seem to be pricey.
> It's a no-brainer to implement in a desktop but external isn't that simple.
>
> This is closest I can find in a quick search...$500
>
> http://www.usb-ware.com/caldigit-s2vr-duo-pci-e.htm
>
> ScottW

I see, thanks.

By the way, I just checked my recordings database. I file every WORK on
every disk, and it's now at 5000 works! Zounds!

[Clyde Slick]

On 3 Dec, 23:41, Jenn > wrote:


> By the way, I just checked my recordings database. I file every WORK on
> every disk, and it's now at 5000 works! Zounds!

what do you consider a 'work'?
a recording of a whole concert you conducted?

[Jenn]

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 3 Dec, 23:41, Jenn > wrote:
>
>
> > By the way, I just checked my recordings database. I file every WORK on
> > every disk, and it's now at 5000 works! Zounds!
>
> what do you consider a 'work'?
> a recording of a whole concert you conducted?

No, every piece of music on each CD/LP. For example, Beethoven 9th
would have only one entry for that disk, but a Sousa march recording
would have about 20 entries.

[dizzy]

ScottW wrote:

>> An actual RAID-1 mirror is pretty much mission impossible for laptops - room
>> for only one hard drive.
>>
>> Modern external FW or USB-2 hard drives will accept backup data at about 5
>> megabyes per second, or 3-4 minutes per gigabyte. 50 GB would then take about
>> 3 hours, which is a good unattended job to run while you sleep.
>
>If you don't forget.

You idiots ever consider trimming your posts?

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 3 Dec, 22:27, "ScottW" > wrote:
>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>> message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> >,
>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
>>>>>>>>> in message
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> com ...
>>>>>>>>>> I know that I can research this in depth, but for
>>>>>>>>>> just a quick/dirty answer while some students
>>>>>>>>>> take a quiz:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I wanted to go the "play music from your
>>>>>>>>>> computer through your home
>>>>>>>>>> audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac
>>>>>>>>>> PowerBook (I don't have a desktop anymore) with
>>>>>>>>>> large external drive which would contain sound
>>>>>>>>>> files losslessly ripped, then wireless
>>>>>>>>>> transmission to something like Airport Express,
>>>>>>>>>> which I would plug into an Aux input on my
>>>>>>>>>> preamp. CD quality sound, right?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct.
>>>>>>>>> But remember that the D/A
>>>>>>>>> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's
>>>>>>>>> an electrically noisy
>>>>>>>>> device, made very cheaply.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see; thanks. Would something like the standard
>>>>>>>> (about $300) Squeezebox be better?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews
>>>>>>> indicating that it's decent.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go
>>>>>> this route; it's just a passing thought for now. I'm not sure what I
>>>>>> would gain, to tell the truth,
>>>>>> other than the space that my CD collection takes up
>>>>>> in the room.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc
>>>>> changer and call it good enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD
>>>>> collection to a hard drive... I would strongly
>>>>> encourage you use a RAID config with mirroring. You
>>>>> won't be happy having to back that drive up
>>>>> and you'll be doubly unhappy if/when your drive dies.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> show her how easy your solution is.
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>>> otherwise, a spare external as a back up really is no
>>>> hassle.
>>>
>>> I'd rather do the mirror setup once and forget it.
>>> Backups are automatic and real time. For a desktop its
>>> no more expensive as an extra drive and all the drive
>>> controllers support it. Doing it external is probably a little
>>> more pricey so I'd have to check.
>>> If she's using external drives to back up external
>>> drives...that will probably be pretty slow.
>>
>> An actual RAID-1 mirror is pretty much mission
>> impossible for laptops - room for only one hard drive.
>>
>> Modern external FW or USB-2 hard drives will accept
>> backup data at about 5 megabyes per second, or 3-4
>> minutes per gigabyte. 50 GB would then take about 3
>> hours, which is a good unattended job to run while you
>> sleep.
>
> If you don't forget.

Forget what?

Forget to start it?

You can set up timer-driven events. Well I presume you can do that in the
Mac OS's, you sure can in XP.

[Arny Krueger]

"soundhaspriority" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>> message
>>> ...
>>>> In article
>>>> >,
>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>> message
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> >,
>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> com ...
>>>>>>>> I know that I can research this in depth, but for
>>>>>>>> just a quick/dirty answer while some students take
>>>>>>>> a quiz: If I wanted to go the "play music from
>>>>>>>> your computer through your home audio gear, a good
>>>>>>>> route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a desktop anymore)
>>>>>>>> with large external drive which would contain sound
>>>>>>>> files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission
>>>>>>>> to something like Airport Express, which I would
>>>>>>>> plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD quality
>>>>>>>> sound, right? Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But
>>>>>>> remember that the D/A
>>>>>>> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's
>>>>>>> an electrically noisy device, made very cheaply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see; thanks. Would something like the standard
>>>>>> (about $300) Squeezebox be better?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating
>>>>> that it's decent. Bob Morein
>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this
>>>> route; it's just a passing thought for now. I'm not
>>>> sure what I would gain, to tell the truth, other than
>>>> the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
>>>
>>> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc
>>> changer and call it good enough.
>>
>> Looks like a new 400 disc DVD changer would be something
>> like $400. Home CD CD changers are more like $250.
>>
>> If coded at 128 kBps, 400 1-hour CDs would take up about
>> 25 GB. Less than double that for 192 kBps.
>>
>> Finding 25 GB of free space on a modern laptop is not a
>> reach. A larger laptop with a 100 GB drive could hold
>> 50 GB of music without being too tight for normal use.
>>
>> I suspect that any reasonably modern laptop could be
>> upgraded to 100 GB for less than $250 parts and labor.
>>
>>> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD collection
>>> to a hard drive... I would strongly encourage you use a
>>> RAID config with mirroring.
>>
>> Like RAID-5 for reliability?
>>
> Not good enough. Other single point failures, such as
> controller failure, power surges, or destructive power
> supply failure, can take it all away.

Huh?

You can replace controllers and power supplies. As long as the basic
integrity of the primary media (the hard drive) is preserved, its OK.

[Arny Krueger]

"soundhaspriority" > wrote in message


> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
> endeavor.

Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If you do it while watching
TV, you can change discs during every commercial break...

> And it's so volatile!

Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most failures I've seen recently
were a while in the making.

> You really need
> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for this.

That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the origional discs. And of
course, that breaks the copyright.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
>
>
> > Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
> > endeavor.
>
> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If you do it while watching
> TV, you can change discs during every commercial break...
>
> > And it's so volatile!
>
> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most failures I've seen recently
> were a while in the making.
>
> > You really need
> > duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for this.
>
> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the origional discs. And of
> course, that breaks the copyright.

I don't believe that this is a copyright violation, but I'll check later
today.

[Bill Riel]

In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D4D06C.20021403122007
@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
says...
>
> I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently, so I'm getting
> an external drive for Christmas. I was thinking of using that for
> music, and buying another as a backup.

Jenn, are you using Leopard? If you have hardware to support it, it may
be just what you need to keep timely backups without having to take any
extra effort to do so.

The reality is, very few people backup adequately. Leopard's "Time
Machine" will take care of this automatically and allow you to easily
restore should something go wrong.

You will need an external drive, but the combination may save you some
grief down the road.

Oh, and on to the wireless streaming: I've mentioned that I have a
Squeezebox and I would enthusiastically recommend it. You do have to
have a wireless network (Airport Express), but the ability to see your
whole iTunes music library and stream any internet station from the
device is very cool.

--
Bill

[MINe109]

On Dec 3, 3:25 pm, "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I know that I can research this in depth, but for just a quick/dirty
> > answer while some students take a quiz:
>
> > If I wanted to go the "play music from your computer through your home
> > audio gear, a good route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a
> > desktop anymore) with large external drive which would contain sound
> > files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission to something like
> > Airport Express, which I would plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD
> > quality sound, right?
>
> > Thanks
>
> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But remember that the D/A
> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's an electrically noisy
> device, made very cheaply.

The Airport has a digital out. Useful if you have an A/V receiver or a
DAC.

Stephen

[Jenn]

In article >,
Bill Riel > wrote:

> In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D4D06C.20021403122007
> @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> says...
> >
> > I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently, so I'm getting
> > an external drive for Christmas. I was thinking of using that for
> > music, and buying another as a backup.
>
> Jenn, are you using Leopard? If you have hardware to support it, it may
> be just what you need to keep timely backups without having to take any
> extra effort to do so.
>
> The reality is, very few people backup adequately. Leopard's "Time
> Machine" will take care of this automatically and allow you to easily
> restore should something go wrong.
>
> You will need an external drive, but the combination may save you some
> grief down the road.
>
> Oh, and on to the wireless streaming: I've mentioned that I have a
> Squeezebox and I would enthusiastically recommend it. You do have to
> have a wireless network (Airport Express), but the ability to see your
> whole iTunes music library and stream any internet station from the
> device is very cool.
>
> --
> Bill

Thanks, Bill. I'm about to get Leopard and an external drive.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Soundhaspriority" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>
> >> > Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
> >> > endeavor.
> >>
> >> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If you do it while
> >> watching
> >> TV, you can change discs during every commercial break...
> >>
> >> > And it's so volatile!
> >>
> >> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most failures I've seen
> >> recently
> >> were a while in the making.
> >>
> >> > You really need
> >> > duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for this.
> >>
> >> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the origional discs. And
> >> of
> >> course, that breaks the copyright.
> >
> > I don't believe that this is a copyright violation, but I'll check later
> > today.
>
> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am. There are many single
> point failures in a computer that can take it all away.
>
> Bob Morein
> (310) 237-6511

Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just saying that I don't
think that Arny's suggestion breaks the law.

[Clyde Slick]

On 4 Dec, 12:31, Jenn > wrote:
> In article >,
> Bill Riel > wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D4D06C.20021403122007
> > @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> > says...
>
> > > I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently, so I'm getting
> > > an external drive for Christmas. I was thinking of using that for
> > > music, and buying another as a backup.
>
> > Jenn, are you using Leopard? If you have hardware to support it, it may
> > be just what you need to keep timely backups without having to take any
> > extra effort to do so.
>
> > The reality is, very few people backup adequately. Leopard's "Time
> > Machine" will take care of this automatically and allow you to easily
> > restore should something go wrong.
>
> > You will need an external drive, but the combination may save you some
> > grief down the road.
>
> > Oh, and on to the wireless streaming: I've mentioned that I have a
> > Squeezebox and I would enthusiastically recommend it. You do have to
> > have a wireless network (Airport Express), but the ability to see your
> > whole iTunes music library and stream any internet station from the
> > device is very cool.
>
> > --
> > Bill
>
> Thanks, Bill. I'm about to get Leopard and an external drive.

i would rip using Exact Audio Copy free software.
and i would use an external DAC.
and i would use lossless compression such as flac
and i would play files directly stored on the pc, with an external as
a backup and/or for larger music library
i think those are the four key elements.

convenience AND not only not compromising sound quality,
but getting better sound quality than using a cd player

any other choices like airport are discretionary
and from what i have been reading about Leopard,
one would have to be an entymologist to appreciate it.

[Bill Riel]

In article <4feb410d-4abb-4c67-857d-a0989a462e18
@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, says...

> and from what i have been reading about Leopard,
> one would have to be an entymologist to appreciate it.

Hey, that would be me! Of course it's 'entomologist', but I'm probably
the last guy that ought to be a spelling/grammar critic.

I've heard of some bugs/issues, but I gather most people are quite
pleased with the upgrade. fwiw, the computer 'press' seem to be quite
enamoured with it (and quite disappointed with Vista for what that's
worth).

--
Bill

[Clyde Slick]

On 4 Dec, 13:52, ScottW > wrote:
> On Dec 4, 10:27 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 4 Dec, 12:31, Jenn > wrote:
>
> > > In article >,
> > > Bill Riel > wrote:
>
> > > > In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D4D06C.20021403122007
> > > > @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> > > > says...
>
> > > > > I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently, so I'm getting
> > > > > an external drive for Christmas. I was thinking of using that for
> > > > > music, and buying another as a backup.
>
> > > > Jenn, are you using Leopard? If you have hardware to support it, it may
> > > > be just what you need to keep timely backups without having to take any
> > > > extra effort to do so.
>
> > > > The reality is, very few people backup adequately. Leopard's "Time
> > > > Machine" will take care of this automatically and allow you to easily
> > > > restore should something go wrong.
>
> > > > You will need an external drive, but the combination may save you some
> > > > grief down the road.
>
> > > > Oh, and on to the wireless streaming: I've mentioned that I have a
> > > > Squeezebox and I would enthusiastically recommend it. You do have to
> > > > have a wireless network (Airport Express), but the ability to see your
> > > > whole iTunes music library and stream any internet station from the
> > > > device is very cool.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Bill
>
> > > Thanks, Bill. I'm about to get Leopard and an external drive.
>
> > i would rip using Exact Audio Copy free software.
> > and i would use an external DAC.
> > and i would use lossless compression such as flac
> > and i would play files directly stored on the pc, with an external as
> > a backup and/or for larger music library
> > i think those are the four key elements.
>
> > convenience AND not only not compromising sound quality,
> > but getting better sound quality than using a cd player
>
> What in this process will provide better sound quality
> than a CD player?
> (No Foobar upsampled interpolation and btw
> that paper while interesting on the upsample segments
> the mechanical jitter crap was total hogwash)
>
> ScottW

not reading the data from a spinning disk
i use winamp mostly
i didn't do any of those mods, reconfigs, etc listed in the paper

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article
> >,
> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>> ...
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
>>>>> endeavor.
>>>>
>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If you
>>>> do it while watching
>>>> TV, you can change discs during every commercial
>>>> break...
>>>>
>>>>> And it's so volatile!
>>>>
>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
>>>> failures I've seen recently
>>>> were a while in the making.
>>>>
>>>>> You really need
>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for this.
>>>>
>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the
>>>> origional discs. And of
>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
>>>
>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright violation, but
>>> I'll check later today.
>>
>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am. There
>> are many single point failures in a computer that can
>> take it all away.
>>
>> Bob Morein
>> (310) 237-6511
>
> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just saying
> that I don't think that Arny's suggestion breaks the law.

Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I suggested not doing, as being
"Arny's suggestion". Try calling it something like "Arny's Caution".

And, it is well known that in order to maintain your license to possess a
given recording in any form, you have to retain the original media. It's
even common sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough about it.

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
>>

>>> Not good enough. Other single point failures, such as
>>> controller failure, power surges, or destructive power
>>> supply failure, can take it all away.
>
>> Huh?
>>
>> You can replace controllers and power supplies. As long
>> as the basic integrity of the primary media (the hard
>> drive) is preserved, its OK.


> As long as.

IME its a pretty good bet.

> There are plenty of single point errrors,
> such as a bit flip in RAM, that can corrupt properly
> functioning file system hardware.

IME those errors rarely if ever make it out to the storage media.

[Clyde Slick]

On 4 Dec, 15:25, ScottW > wrote:
> On Dec 4, 11:12 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 4 Dec, 13:52, ScottW > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 4, 10:27 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > On 4 Dec, 12:31, Jenn > wrote:
>
> > > > > In article >,
> > > > > Bill Riel > wrote:
>
> > > > > > In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D4D06C.20021403122007
> > > > > > @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> > > > > > says...
>
> > > > > > > I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently, so I'm getting
> > > > > > > an external drive for Christmas. I was thinking of using that for
> > > > > > > music, and buying another as a backup.
>
> > > > > > Jenn, are you using Leopard? If you have hardware to support it, it may
> > > > > > be just what you need to keep timely backups without having to take any
> > > > > > extra effort to do so.
>
> > > > > > The reality is, very few people backup adequately. Leopard's "Time
> > > > > > Machine" will take care of this automatically and allow you to easily
> > > > > > restore should something go wrong.
>
> > > > > > You will need an external drive, but the combination may save you some
> > > > > > grief down the road.
>
> > > > > > Oh, and on to the wireless streaming: I've mentioned that I have a
> > > > > > Squeezebox and I would enthusiastically recommend it. You do have to
> > > > > > have a wireless network (Airport Express), but the ability to see your
> > > > > > whole iTunes music library and stream any internet station from the
> > > > > > device is very cool.
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Bill
>
> > > > > Thanks, Bill. I'm about to get Leopard and an external drive.
>
> > > > i would rip using Exact Audio Copy free software.
> > > > and i would use an external DAC.
> > > > and i would use lossless compression such as flac
> > > > and i would play files directly stored on the pc, with an external as
> > > > a backup and/or for larger music library
> > > > i think those are the four key elements.
>
> > > > convenience AND not only not compromising sound quality,
> > > > but getting better sound quality than using a cd player
>
> > > What in this process will provide better sound quality
> > > than a CD player?
> > > (No Foobar upsampled interpolation and btw
> > > that paper while interesting on the upsample segments
> > > the mechanical jitter crap was total hogwash)
>
> > > ScottW
>
> > not reading the data from a spinning disk
>
> How do I say this without being too borgish....
> that part of the paper claims of faults in CD players
> was extremely flawed.
> They completely ignored that CD data is all buffered
> and deinterleaved before it ever sees a DAC.
> Timing is so far removed from the mechanics by
> then its silly.
>
> Here's an older but still reasonable IMO explanation
> of jitter causes. None of this is due to the mechanics
> of a spinning disc and will apply to the DAC of a PC
> sound card just as well.
>
> http://www.audiocraftersguild.com/AandE/cd-jitter.pdf
>
> This discussion talks of electronic coupling from the
> read mechanism to the clock as possible cause of jitter..
> but PCs are far more electrically noisy than CDs so
> that problem would be worse. External DACs and their
> inherent clock recovery requirements have their own
> challenges.
>
> http://www.digido.com/index.php?option=com_kb&page=articles&articleid...
>
> or this discussionhttp://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/jitter.htm
> which states
>
> "The critical thing to realize is that jitter can only occur at the
> DAC, whether that is in a CD player, or a separate box connected with
> a SPDIF digital interconnect.
>
> However, just about anything that causes power supply variations
> (henceforth PS = Power Supply) WILL also affect the DAC. It does seem
> that data buffers would eliminate any problem, but the whole thing
> arises because the DAC can be affected by PS variations. "
>
> ScottW

next time i am in SD we will do a listening evaluation,
if we can round up the right equipment.
i have a stand alone dac i can bring, but we need a stand alone
transport.
compare it each way.
i heard demos of a several different paired combos of cd vs transport,
always the pc data was far superior, not even close,
easily recognizable.

[Clyde Slick]

On 4 Dec, 16:11, ScottW > wrote:
> On Dec 4, 12:38 pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 4 Dec, 15:25, ScottW > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 4, 11:12 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > On 4 Dec, 13:52, ScottW > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 4, 10:27 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 4 Dec, 12:31, Jenn > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > Bill Riel > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D4D06C.20021403122007
> > > > > > > > @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> > > > > > > > says...
>
> > > > > > > > > I see. My backup practices are woefully bad presently, so I'm getting
> > > > > > > > > an external drive for Christmas. I was thinking of using that for
> > > > > > > > > music, and buying another as a backup.
>
> > > > > > > > Jenn, are you using Leopard? If you have hardware to support it, it may
> > > > > > > > be just what you need to keep timely backups without having to take any
> > > > > > > > extra effort to do so.
>
> > > > > > > > The reality is, very few people backup adequately. Leopard's "Time
> > > > > > > > Machine" will take care of this automatically and allow you to easily
> > > > > > > > restore should something go wrong.
>
> > > > > > > > You will need an external drive, but the combination may save you some
> > > > > > > > grief down the road.
>
> > > > > > > > Oh, and on to the wireless streaming: I've mentioned that I have a
> > > > > > > > Squeezebox and I would enthusiastically recommend it. You do have to
> > > > > > > > have a wireless network (Airport Express), but the ability to see your
> > > > > > > > whole iTunes music library and stream any internet station from the
> > > > > > > > device is very cool.
>
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Bill
>
> > > > > > > Thanks, Bill. I'm about to get Leopard and an external drive.
>
> > > > > > i would rip using Exact Audio Copy free software.
> > > > > > and i would use an external DAC.
> > > > > > and i would use lossless compression such as flac
> > > > > > and i would play files directly stored on the pc, with an external as
> > > > > > a backup and/or for larger music library
> > > > > > i think those are the four key elements.
>
> > > > > > convenience AND not only not compromising sound quality,
> > > > > > but getting better sound quality than using a cd player
>
> > > > > What in this process will provide better sound quality
> > > > > than a CD player?
> > > > > (No Foobar upsampled interpolation and btw
> > > > > that paper while interesting on the upsample segments
> > > > > the mechanical jitter crap was total hogwash)
>
> > > > > ScottW
>
> > > > not reading the data from a spinning disk
>
> > > How do I say this without being too borgish....
> > > that part of the paper claims of faults in CD players
> > > was extremely flawed.
> > > They completely ignored that CD data is all buffered
> > > and deinterleaved before it ever sees a DAC.
> > > Timing is so far removed from the mechanics by
> > > then its silly.
>
> > > Here's an older but still reasonable IMO explanation
> > > of jitter causes. None of this is due to the mechanics
> > > of a spinning disc and will apply to the DAC of a PC
> > > sound card just as well.
>
> > >http://www.audiocraftersguild.com/AandE/cd-jitter.pdf
>
> > > This discussion talks of electronic coupling from the
> > > read mechanism to the clock as possible cause of jitter..
> > > but PCs are far more electrically noisy than CDs so
> > > that problem would be worse. External DACs and their
> > > inherent clock recovery requirements have their own
> > > challenges.
>
> > >http://www.digido.com/index.php?option=com_kb&page=articles&articleid...
>
> > > or this discussionhttp://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/jitter.htm
> > > which states
>
> > > "The critical thing to realize is that jitter can only occur at the
> > > DAC, whether that is in a CD player, or a separate box connected with
> > > a SPDIF digital interconnect.
>
> > > However, just about anything that causes power supply variations
> > > (henceforth PS = Power Supply) WILL also affect the DAC. It does seem
> > > that data buffers would eliminate any problem, but the whole thing
> > > arises because the DAC can be affected by PS variations. "
>
> > > ScottW
>
> > next time i am in SD we will do a listening evaluation,
>
> cool, when is that?
>
> > if we can round up the right equipment.
> > i have a stand alone dac i can bring, but we need a stand alone
> > transport.
>
> Both my DVD and CD players have data out so they can work as
> transports.
>
> PC upstairs has a Sound blaster audigy in it so it can
> be the host.
>
> > compare it each way.
> > i heard demos of a several different paired combos of cd vs transport,
> > always the pc data was far superior, not even close,
>
> only thing I can think of is the EAC ripping process reduced/
> eliminated
> the error rate. My CD player in my office sucks for playing CD-Rs
> so I use the PC playing the disc and winamp or Media player
> to my stereo....I can rip a song to my harddrive and compare
> there but its a Gateway with mobo sound I got from my neighbor.
> I have no idea whats in it for sound.
> Anyway, the original disc in the CD or a CD-R in the PC there
> both feeding my old system Advents sounds same to me.
>
> I've been looking for an excuse hook my PC to my
> main system....I'm dying add one more ground loop to
> that mess :).
>
> ScottW

whenever it is, it is
i will bring my pc, and some disks for comparison
and a dac that accepts firewire,
unless you got one


try EAC
what are you ripping with now?
and do you have a dac that you can hook your pc up to?

[dizzy]

Clyde Slick wrote:

>whenever it is, it is
>i will bring my pc, and some disks for comparison
>and a dac that accepts firewire,
>unless you got one

150 lines for that?

[Clyde Slick]

On 4 Dec, 18:18, dizzy > wrote:
> Clyde Slick wrote:
> >whenever it is, it is
> >i will bring my pc, and some disks for comparison
> >and a dac that accepts firewire,
> >unless you got one
>
> 150 lines for that?

buy a bigger monitor

[dizzy]

Clyde Slick wrote:

>On 4 Dec, 18:18, dizzy > wrote:
>> Clyde Slick wrote:
>> >whenever it is, it is
>> >i will bring my pc, and some disks for comparison
>> >and a dac that accepts firewire,
>> >unless you got one
>>
>> 150 lines for that?
>
>buy a bigger monitor

How many vertical pixels would one need to run, to show a 150-line
post intact, without needing to scroll? Especially considering
there's some space "wasted" by the GUI, with most applications?

You lazy idiots should trim your posts, so people don't have to
scroll-down hundreds of lines to see your response.

[George M. Middius]

dippy said:

> You lazy idiots should trim your posts,[sic] so people don't have to
> scroll-[sic]down hundreds of lines to see your response.

Did you ever consider that some posters might be trying to discourage
you from contributing to the threads, Sunshine?

[dizzy]

ScottW wrote:

>>
>> whenever it is, it is
>> i will bring my pc, and some disks for comparison
>> and a dac that accepts firewire,
>> unless you got one
>
>Nope.

Well, I don't expect you to trim. You're a right-winger, and
right-wingers pretty-much think "**** everyone but ME".

[dizzy]

ScottW wrote:

>On Dec 4, 3:49 pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>>
>> buy a bigger monitor
>
>just make him dizzyer.

BTW, I've been running a 21" CRT for the last 10 years or so. Before
that, I was running a 17", when that was still sort of exotic, and
most idiots were buying 15", or even (gack) 14" monitors...

I never understood the cretins, the mass morons, who would stretch
their budget to get, say, a 150MHz Pentium instead of a 133 (like
you'd EVER notice the difference), then skimp-out on a crappy CTX 15"
monitor.

My current monitor, that I've been using for years, is arguably the
finest ever made.

[Harry Lavo]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> ...
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >,
>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> com ...
>>>>>>>>> I know that I can research this in depth, but for
>>>>>>>>> just a quick/dirty answer while some students take
>>>>>>>>> a quiz: If I wanted to go the "play music from
>>>>>>>>> your computer through your home audio gear, a good
>>>>>>>>> route might be: My Mac PowerBook (I don't have a desktop anymore)
>>>>>>>>> with large external drive which would contain sound
>>>>>>>>> files losslessly ripped, then wireless transmission
>>>>>>>>> to something like Airport Express, which I would
>>>>>>>>> plug into an Aux input on my preamp. CD quality
>>>>>>>>> sound, right? Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not a Mac person, but this appears correct. But
>>>>>>>> remember that the D/A
>>>>>>>> and output stage can't have high end quality. It's
>>>>>>>> an electrically noisy device, made very cheaply.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see; thanks. Would something like the standard
>>>>>>> (about $300) Squeezebox be better?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would think so. I think I've seen reviews indicating
>>>>>> that it's decent. Bob Morein
>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I'm not at all sure that I'm going to go this
>>>>> route; it's just a passing thought for now. I'm not
>>>>> sure what I would gain, to tell the truth, other than
>>>>> the space that my CD collection takes up in the room.
>>>>
>>>> How many CDs? Its cheaper to go buy a 300 or 400 disc
>>>> changer and call it good enough.
>>>
>>> Looks like a new 400 disc DVD changer would be something
>>> like $400. Home CD CD changers are more like $250.
>>>
>>> If coded at 128 kBps, 400 1-hour CDs would take up about
>>> 25 GB. Less than double that for 192 kBps.
>>>
>>> Finding 25 GB of free space on a modern laptop is not a
>>> reach. A larger laptop with a 100 GB drive could hold
>>> 50 GB of music without being too tight for normal use.
>>>
>>> I suspect that any reasonably modern laptop could be
>>> upgraded to 100 GB for less than $250 parts and labor.
>>>
>>>> If you go to the hassle of ripping a large CD collection
>>>> to a hard drive... I would strongly encourage you use a
>>>> RAID config with mirroring.
>>>
>>> Like RAID-5 for reliability?
>>>
>> Not good enough. Other single point failures, such as
>> controller failure, power surges, or destructive power
>> supply failure, can take it all away.
>
> Huh?
>
> You can replace controllers and power supplies. As long as the basic
> integrity of the primary media (the hard drive) is preserved, its OK.

If you want it up in real time, you have duplexed servers each "raided"
internally, all driven off UPS's large enough to power them for fifteen
minutes-to-an-hour, and all driven by a dedicated power line/source which
can be switched over to auxilliary diesel power. A bit of a chuckle for
sure, but that is how real-world fail-safe systems are designed.

[Clyde Slick]

On 4 Dec, 19:26, dizzy > wrote:
> ScottW wrote:
>
> >> whenever it is, it is
> >> i will bring my pc, and some disks for comparison
> >> and a dac that accepts firewire,
> >> unless you got one
>
> >Nope.
>
> Well, I don't expect you to trim. You're a right-winger, and
> right-wingers pretty-much think "**** everyone but ME".

That's it.
i got a **** you attitude
that's why i did it
and if you don't like it,
i'm just gonna drive over to your
house in my 8mpg suv and whack you
over the head with 36" lead pipe.
A 12"er will do just fine, but i like wastin lead.

[Clyde Slick]

On 4 Dec, 19:17, dizzy > wrote:
> Clyde Slick wrote:
> >On 4 Dec, 18:18, dizzy > wrote:
> >> Clyde Slick wrote:
> >> >whenever it is, it is
> >> >i will bring my pc, and some disks for comparison
> >> >and a dac that accepts firewire,
> >> >unless you got one
>
> >> 150 lines for that?
>
> >buy a bigger monitor
>
> How many vertical pixels would one need to run, to show a 150-line
> post intact, without needing to scroll? Especially considering
> there's some space "wasted" by the GUI, with most applications?
>
> You lazy idiots should trim your posts, so people don't have to
> scroll-down hundreds of lines to see your response.

my google reader hides it, i don't have to scroll.
never seeing the old ****, i don't snip.
out of sight, out of mind.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
> >>>>> endeavor.
> >>>>
> >>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If you
> >>>> do it while watching
> >>>> TV, you can change discs during every commercial
> >>>> break...
> >>>>
> >>>>> And it's so volatile!
> >>>>
> >>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
> >>>> failures I've seen recently
> >>>> were a while in the making.
> >>>>
> >>>>> You really need
> >>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for this.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the
> >>>> origional discs. And of
> >>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
> >>>
> >>> I don't believe that this is a copyright violation, but
> >>> I'll check later today.
> >>
> >> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am. There
> >> are many single point failures in a computer that can
> >> take it all away.
> >>
> >> Bob Morein
> >> (310) 237-6511
> >
> > Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just saying
> > that I don't think that Arny's suggestion breaks the law.
>
> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I suggested not doing, as being
> "Arny's suggestion". Try calling it something like "Arny's Caution".

Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just for you Arny, I'll
call it "Arny's Caution". Now will you be able to remove that large bug
from your bum?

> And, it is well known that in order to maintain your license to possess a
> given recording in any form, you have to retain the original media. It's
> even common sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough about it.

Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that you're incorrect in
the above paragraph, will you apologize for your snotty last sentence?

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 5, 9:43 am, Jenn > wrote:

> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that you're incorrect in
> the above paragraph, will you apologize for your snotty last sentence?

Damn it. My good overcoat is at the drycleaners and it looks like hell
is freezing over.

The odds of GOIA apologizing for something are about the same as the
odds are of 2pid admitting that he's an imbecile.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >,
>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> .
>>>> com
>>>> ...
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >, "Arny
>>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
>>>>>>> endeavor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If
>>>>>> you do it while watching
>>>>>> TV, you can change discs during every commercial
>>>>>> break...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And it's so volatile!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
>>>>>> failures I've seen recently
>>>>>> were a while in the making.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You really need
>>>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the
>>>>>> origional discs. And of
>>>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright violation,
>>>>> but I'll check later today.
>>>>
>>>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am. There
>>>> are many single point failures in a computer that can
>>>> take it all away.
>>>>
>>>> Bob Morein
>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>
>>> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just saying
>>> that I don't think that Arny's suggestion breaks the
>>> law.
>>
>> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I suggested
>> not doing, as being "Arny's suggestion". Try calling it
>> something like "Arny's Caution".
>
> Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just for
> you Arny, I'll call it "Arny's Caution". Now will you be
> able to remove that large bug from your bum?
>
>> And, it is well known that in order to maintain your
>> license to possess a given recording in any form, you
>> have to retain the original media. It's even common
>> sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough about
>> it.
>
> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that you're
> incorrect in the above paragraph, will you apologize for
> your snotty last sentence?

Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?

[George M. Middius]

Its buttons pushed, the Krooborg launches into "auto debating trade"
gyrations.

> > Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that you're
> > incorrect in the above paragraph, will you apologize for
> > your snotty last sentence?

> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?

LOL! Arnii, yer too much. Who writes your stuff -- Ferstler? Nousiane?
ROTLEFFMOOFFL!

[Bill Riel]

Jenn writes:

> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that you're
> incorrect in the above paragraph, will you apologize for
> your snotty last sentence?

Arny responds:

> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?

Well that settles that doesn't it?

You know Arny, you could apologize for your snotty comment even if you
are correct and Jenn is wrong. It's called being a decent human being -
you might even find it liberating!

--
Bill

[George M. Middius]

Bill Riel said:

> You know Arny, you could apologize for your snotty comment even if you
> are correct and Jenn is wrong. It's called being a decent human being -
> you might even find it liberating!

Not a chance. The Krooborg has trod this territory many times before,
albeit unwillingly. No, it wouldn't be liberating. It would be
"humiliating". Not taking responsibility for one's behavior is the
absolute bedrock principle of the "debating trade". John Atkinson can
testify to this fact better than any of us.

[Arny Krueger]

"Bill Riel" > wrote in message
t

> You know Arny, you could apologize for your snotty
> comment even if you are correct and Jenn is wrong. It's
> called being a decent human being - you might even find
> it liberating!

As if this added trash isn't a snotty post, Bill.

Also Bill, posts like this show that you don't think that Jenn is a big girl
and can fight her own battles.

So Bill, you're throwing snot on her.

Finally, nice job of piling on after the Middiot.

Got any other spew you want to get off your chest?

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> com
> >>> In article
> >>> >,
> >>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>> y.
> >>>> com
> >>>> ...
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> >, "Arny
> >>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in
> >>>>>> message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
> >>>>>>> endeavor.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If
> >>>>>> you do it while watching
> >>>>>> TV, you can change discs during every commercial
> >>>>>> break...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And it's so volatile!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
> >>>>>> failures I've seen recently
> >>>>>> were a while in the making.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You really need
> >>>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the
> >>>>>> origional discs. And of
> >>>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright violation,
> >>>>> but I'll check later today.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am. There
> >>>> are many single point failures in a computer that can
> >>>> take it all away.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob Morein
> >>>> (310) 237-6511
> >>>
> >>> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just saying
> >>> that I don't think that Arny's suggestion breaks the
> >>> law.
> >>
> >> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I suggested
> >> not doing, as being "Arny's suggestion". Try calling it
> >> something like "Arny's Caution".
> >
> > Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just for
> > you Arny, I'll call it "Arny's Caution". Now will you be
> > able to remove that large bug from your bum?
> >
> >> And, it is well known that in order to maintain your
> >> license to possess a given recording in any form, you
> >> have to retain the original media. It's even common
> >> sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough about
> >> it.
> >
> > Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that you're
> > incorrect in the above paragraph, will you apologize for
> > your snotty last sentence?
>
> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?

Never mind. Too much trouble.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> .
>>>> com
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >,
>>>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> y.
>>>>>> com
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in
>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
>>>>>>>>> endeavor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If
>>>>>>>> you do it while watching
>>>>>>>> TV, you can change discs during every commercial
>>>>>>>> break...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And it's so volatile!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
>>>>>>>> failures I've seen recently
>>>>>>>> were a while in the making.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You really need
>>>>>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for
>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the
>>>>>>>> origional discs. And of
>>>>>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright violation,
>>>>>>> but I'll check later today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am.
>>>>>> There are many single point failures in a computer
>>>>>> that can take it all away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just saying
>>>>> that I don't think that Arny's suggestion breaks the
>>>>> law.
>>>>
>>>> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I suggested
>>>> not doing, as being "Arny's suggestion". Try calling it
>>>> something like "Arny's Caution".
>>>
>>> Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just for
>>> you Arny, I'll call it "Arny's Caution". Now will you
>>> be able to remove that large bug from your bum?
>>>
>>>> And, it is well known that in order to maintain your
>>>> license to possess a given recording in any form, you
>>>> have to retain the original media. It's even common
>>>> sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough
>>>> about it.
>>>
>>> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that
>>> you're incorrect in the above paragraph, will you
>>> apologize for your snotty last sentence?
>>
>> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?
>
> Never mind. Too much trouble.

Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in grinding the same old
axes than sharing insights.

Yup, that's the small-minded person I know you to be. :-(

How Middiot-like of you!

[Bill Riel]

In article >,
says...

> you don't think that Jenn is a big girl and can fight her
> own battles.

Wow - do you really think Jenn is fighting a battle? Are all of your
usenet interactions battles to be won or lost?

I think Bob's correct - some vacation time would do you a world of good.

--
Bill

[Bill Riel]

In article >, George M.
Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> says...

> Not a chance. The Krooborg has trod this territory many times before,
> albeit unwillingly. No, it wouldn't be liberating. It would be
> "humiliating". Not taking responsibility for one's behavior is the
> absolute bedrock principle of the "debating trade".

You sure nailed it. And my, what a snot storm in response!

Oh, and I have to ask - who is 'Mike' that Arny is railing against? Is
that not PD or am I confused?

--
Bill

[Clyde Slick]

On 5 Dec, 15:42, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Bill Riel" > wrote in message
>
> t
>
> > You know Arny, you could apologize for your snotty
> > comment even if you are correct and Jenn is wrong. It's
> > called being a decent human being - you might even find
> > it liberating!
>
> As if this added trash isn't a snotty post, Bill.
>
> Also Bill, posts like this show that you don't think that Jenn is a big girl
> and can fight her own battles.
>
> So Bill, you're throwing snot on her.
>
> Finally, nice job of piling on after the Middiot.
>
> Got any other spew you want to get off your chest?

Time for another sermon, Arny


The Vital Place of Repentance"

by Pastor K.B. Murray,

Millington Street Baptist Church, Winfield, KS

Text: Luke 13:1-5; Mark 6:12; Act 3:19

Introduction:

In the grand scheme of eternal things, Almighty God designed a way in
which mere mortals walking and living here upon this sin-cursed earth
could be prepared for divine redemption and Heaven.

As the religious world becomes more and more accommodating to that
which is politically correct as viewed by this world's standards, they
become less than honest with Truth, even stooping to the place of
passing it off as archaic, old-fashioned, or irrelevant, no longer
necessary.

Open season has been declared upon the Word of God, upon those sacred
doctrines, upon those that holds its truth's as precious in their
lives and upon those poor souls who follow that old Hell-fire and
Damnation preaching.

It is from just such a scenario that the Spirit of God seeks to speak
and arrest minds from the swamp holes of this world's cesspools.

I am declaring unto you that I am much more interested in pleasing God
than I am in being a man pleaser or in being politically correct or
well thought of by the religious crowd.

I am seeking to be guided by that great principle stated in Gal.1:10.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if
I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

I. WE MUST UNDERSTAND WHAT
SCRIPTURAL REPENTANCE MEANS.

When Almighty God calls for repentance, it is imperative that
everybody knows what the term means and what is entailed upon them in
the matter of repentance.

When you consider that Christ said, "Except ye repent ye shall all
likewise perish" Lk.13:3, it becomes personally imperative that you
both know what the word means and that you carry out that which it
requires.

A. Repentance is defined as compunction for guilt; a reversal of
one's direction.

1. Compunction is:

a. A strong uneasiness caused by a sense of guilt,
or,

b. A sting of conscience or a pang of doubt aroused
by wrongdoing or the prospect of wrongdoing.

2. Repentance has been described as an about face, that
is, it is a total and complete turn around.

B. Repentance deals with a turn around in at least three
significant areas which are:

1. Sin - I had denied, now I confess.

2. Self - I was good enough, now I am lost.

3. Savior - I did not need him, now I cannot live without
him.

C. Examine these Scriptural examples.

1. Repentance is described as a turning.

And all that dwelt at Lydda and Saron saw him, and turned to the Lord.
(Acts 9:35)

2. Repentance leaves wickedness and follows godliness,
seeking God's forgiveness.

Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the
thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. (Acts 8:22)

3. Repentance deals with conversion to, a becoming like,
and, in agreement with God.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted
out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the
Lord; (Acts 3:19)

And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through
Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and
they caused great joy unto all the brethren. (Acts 15:3)

II. THE SCRIPTURES REVEAL THREE THINGS ATTEMPT TO BRING MEN TO
REPENTANCE.

A. First: Conviction brought upon our spirit by the Holy
Spirit's application of the Word of God.

1. The Word of God has the power to confront a sinner and
bring him to humility.

2. The Word of God, aptly applied by the Holy Spirit,
brings sinners to see themselves as Almighty God sees them.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two
edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,
and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and
intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)

B. Second: The goodness of God as one realizes every good thing
cometh from God above.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down
from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither
shadow of turning. (James 1:17)

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and
longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to
repentance? (Rom 2:4)

1. It is God's intent that with every blessing he bestows
upon our lives that we be humbled and loving toward him.

2. Satan has succeeded, in most cases, to cause men to
believe that such goodness was by their own prowess, shrewdness or
smartness, thus trying to avert the ministry of blessings.

C. Third: God's longsuffering mercy.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count
slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any
should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Pet 3:9)

1. God keeps putting up with and allowing things to go on,
all because of his longsuffering grace.

2. He has every right to pass judgment upon our wicked
ways, but in his longsuffering grace, he waits against that day that
we recognize it and respond to it properly.

D. Repentance is the results of divine workings for no man just
decides to repent; such a action had it's origin in Heaven.

E. Just as surely as the Lord brings about that which effects
repentance he effectively works in every living person to repent.

1. The Holy Spirit is massaging your heart and spirit with
conviction right now because you need to be turned from what you are.

2. The Holy Spirit is reminding you of both God's goodness
and his longsuffering toward you because he is calling you to
repentance.

3. He is placing the sacrifice of Christ before your
heart, trying to tender it with his love so that you might respond in
repentance.

III. REPENTANCE HAS EVIDENCES REVEALING ITS WORK IS ACCOMPLISHED.

A. A life that is changed.

1. We have all heard the story of ole Jim who was a
drunkard, beat his boy and cursed his wife until conviction brought
repentance to his life and he was a changed man.

2. That change has literally been played out in tens of
thousands of lives across time, as one after another, sinners came to
repentance and God changed their personality and their practices.

B. A heart that is yielded and supple to spiritual things.

1. What a joy to behold that stubborn, selfish, self-
centered sinner be transformed by repentance and wrought into a sweet,
serving, caring saint.

2. The world cannot fathom what happens nor how the person
was changed but they will have to testify that they are surely a
different person.

a. And individual stopped me in town and remarked
how a certain person was surely different, giving me the credit.

b. I had the privilege of informing them that such a
change was wrought only by the power of God because that person had
repentance and received Christ.

3. Perhaps the most classic illustration was Saul of
Tarsus who was moved from a proud persecutor's heart to that of a
supple servant's heart, giving his life that others might hear of
Christ and the opportunity of repentance.

C. A life that sorrows over sin's curses upon others.

1. One of the first things that happens when repentance
effects salvation is that that saved person becomes concerned over the
spiritual condition of their loved ones.

2. That caring, that compassion, that desire to see others
free of sin's condemnation is one of the strongest witnesses an
unsaved person will ever experience.

3. Such caring however, is not limited just to relatives
for every redeemed one wants to see others redeemed.

Saul was climbing the ecclesiastical ladder, persecuting Christians
until he met the Lord in Acts 9.

His life was no longer for Paul but was now for his brethren, even to
wishing that he could be accursed if it would turn them to Christ. For
I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my
kinsmen according to the flesh: (Rom 9:3)

CONCLUSION: The Vital Place Of Repentance

1. Are you a benefactor of repentance?

2. Are you sure that you repented and have been changed by Christ,
and,

3. That your life is revealing Christ to others?

4. Who are you living for? If self is your answer, I'd sure do some
searching of my soul about the matter of whether I had repentance to
my credit or not.

------------

[Clyde Slick]

On 5 Dec, 17:22, Bill Riel > wrote:
> In article >,

>
> Wow - do you really think Jenn is fighting a battle? Are all of your
> usenet interactions battles to be won or lost?
>



Contgrats Bill, you understand the essence of ARNY'S "debating trade".

[Bill Riel]

In article <95ab3efd-3ebb-425d-8e29-52a16ddfe254
@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, says...

> Contgrats Bill, you understand the essence of ARNY'S "debating trade".

Sorry it took me so long. I'm kinda slow sometimes...

--
Bill

[George M. Middius]

Bill Riel said:

> > Not a chance. The Krooborg has trod this territory many times before,
> > albeit unwillingly. No, it wouldn't be liberating. It would be
> > "humiliating". Not taking responsibility for one's behavior is the
> > absolute bedrock principle of the "debating trade".

> You sure nailed it. And my, what a snot storm in response!

Indeed. You did so well at baiting the Kroo that I'm waiving your clique
dues for the next three months.

> Oh, and I have to ask - who is 'Mike' that Arny is railing against? Is
> that not PD or am I confused?

No, it's not PD. Kroo**** was replying to another RAOer who recently
made a Swiftian post about the supposed virtues of sockpuppeting. The
only RAO regular named Mike is duh-Mikey McBugEater, but he's as loyal a
vassal as the Krooborg could ever hope to brainwash.

The Krooborg is on record many times as admitting he can't tell Normals
apart. Mr. **** has previously claimed that Jenn sounds like me, and I
sound like John, and Art sounds like Shhhh, and Shhhh sounds like Jenn.
I believe this lack of perceptivity is an aspect of his insanity.

[George M. Middius]

I said:

> > Oh, and I have to ask - who is 'Mike' that Arny is railing against? Is
> > that not PD or am I confused?

> No, it's not PD. Kroo**** was replying to another RAOer who recently
> made a Swiftian post about the supposed virtues of sockpuppeting. The
> only RAO regular named Mike is duh-Mikey McBugEater, but he's as loyal a
> vassal as the Krooborg could ever hope to brainwash.

I just read the post in question. Mike is Michael Mossey, and the post
Robert quoted was sent to RAHE in April 2005.

[Meta-puppet 1.4b]

Bill Riel > wrote:

>> Not a chance. The Krooborg has trod this territory many times before,
>> albeit unwillingly. No, it wouldn't be liberating. It would be
>> "humiliating". Not taking responsibility for one's behavior is the
>> absolute bedrock principle of the "debating trade".
>
>You sure nailed it. And my, what a snot storm in response!
>
>Oh, and I have to ask - who is 'Mike' that Arny is railing against? Is
>that not PD or am I confused?

No, *you* are not confused - he's responding to me Paul Dormer, as a
quick glance at the headers show (I've used the same static IP/email
address for years). However he's "talking to" Mike Mossey, who was
quoted in my post... ;-)

[Meta-puppet 1.4b]

George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:

>Bill Riel said:
>
>> > Not a chance. The Krooborg has trod this territory many times before,
>> > albeit unwillingly. No, it wouldn't be liberating. It would be
>> > "humiliating". Not taking responsibility for one's behavior is the
>> > absolute bedrock principle of the "debating trade".
>
>> You sure nailed it. And my, what a snot storm in response!
>
>Indeed. You did so well at baiting the Kroo that I'm waiving your clique
>dues for the next three months.
>
>> Oh, and I have to ask - who is 'Mike' that Arny is railing against? Is
>> that not PD or am I confused?
>
>No, it's not PD. Kroo**** was replying to another RAOer who recently
>made a Swiftian post about the supposed virtues of sockpuppeting.

If I'm not mistaken, Bill is referring to the thread "Mike Tries To
Restart A Bogus Two Year Old Rant".

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 5, 4:52 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:

> The Krooborg is on record many times as admitting he can't tell Normals
> apart. Mr. **** has previously claimed that Jenn sounds like me, and I
> sound like John, and Art sounds like Shhhh, and Shhhh sounds like Jenn.
> I believe this lack of perceptivity is an aspect of his insanity.

Jenn is far nicer than I am. She also seems to have gobs more patience
than me.

If there's a large pile of **** on the table, I tend to immediately
call it a large pile of ****.;-)

[Clyde Slick]

On 5 Dec, 18:25, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> wrote:
> On Dec 5, 4:52 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>

>
> If there's a large pile of **** on the table, I tend to immediately
> call it a large pile of ****.;-)

how nice of the kroo to invite you over for dinner tonight.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 5, 2:42 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Bill Riel" > wrote in message
>
> t
>
> > You know Arny, you could apologize for your snotty
> > comment even if you are correct and Jenn is wrong. It's
> > called being a decent human being - you might even find
> > it liberating!
>
> As if this added trash isn't a snotty post, Bill.
>
> Also Bill, posts like this show that you don't think that Jenn is a big girl
> and can fight her own battles.

LOL!

So you're "battling" Jenn after she agreed with you. That figures.

What a ****wit.

> So Bill, you're throwing snot on her.
>
> Finally, nice job of piling on after the Middiot.
>
> Got any other spew you want to get off your chest?

You're doing just fine for all of us, GOIA.

Do you frequently "battle" people who tell you that calling a thing
something it isn't is not inaccurate?

LOL!

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 5, 4:22 pm, Bill Riel > wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
> > you don't think that Jenn is a big girl and can fight her
> > own battles.
>
> Wow - do you really think Jenn is fighting a battle? Are all of your
> usenet interactions battles to be won or lost?
>
> I think Bob's correct - some vacation time would do you a world of good.

There's a clinic nearby where GOIA could get some "rest":

http://www.henryford.com/body.cfm?id=37473

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 5, 3:21 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
>
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> .
> >>>> com
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> >,
> >>>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>
> >>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>>>> message
>
> >>>>>> y.
> >>>>>> com
> >>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> >,
> >>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in
> >>>>>>>> message
>
>
> >>>>>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
> >>>>>>>>> endeavor.
>
> >>>>>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If
> >>>>>>>> you do it while watching
> >>>>>>>> TV, you can change discs during every commercial
> >>>>>>>> break...
>
> >>>>>>>>> And it's so volatile!
>
> >>>>>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
> >>>>>>>> failures I've seen recently
> >>>>>>>> were a while in the making.
>
> >>>>>>>>> You really need
> >>>>>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for
> >>>>>>>>> this.
>
> >>>>>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the
> >>>>>>>> origional discs. And of
> >>>>>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
>
> >>>>>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright violation,
> >>>>>>> but I'll check later today.
>
> >>>>>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am.
> >>>>>> There are many single point failures in a computer
> >>>>>> that can take it all away.
>
> >>>>>> Bob Morein
> >>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>
> >>>>> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just saying
> >>>>> that I don't think that Arny's suggestion breaks the
> >>>>> law.
>
> >>>> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I suggested
> >>>> not doing, as being "Arny's suggestion". Try calling it
> >>>> something like "Arny's Caution".
>
> >>> Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just for
> >>> you Arny, I'll call it "Arny's Caution". Now will you
> >>> be able to remove that large bug from your bum?
>
> >>>> And, it is well known that in order to maintain your
> >>>> license to possess a given recording in any form, you
> >>>> have to retain the original media. It's even common
> >>>> sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough
> >>>> about it.
>
> >>> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that
> >>> you're incorrect in the above paragraph, will you
> >>> apologize for your snotty last sentence?
>
> >> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?
>
> > Never mind. Too much trouble.
>
> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in grinding the same old
> axes than sharing insights.
>
> Yup, that's the small-minded person I know you to be. :-(
>
> How Middiot-like of you!

Is this the "meat" you recently claimed you like to toss out on RAO?

I hope not, because it smells like ****.;-)

[George M. Middius]

Shhhh! said to Kroo****:

> Do you frequently "battle" people who tell you that calling a thing
> something it isn't is not inaccurate?

The "debating trade" is an extension of agreement by other means.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> net
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>> y.
> >>>> com
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> >,
> >>>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>>>> message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ig
> >>>>>> y.
> >>>>>> com
> >>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> >,
> >>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in
> >>>>>>>> message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a lengthy
> >>>>>>>>> endeavor.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less. If
> >>>>>>>> you do it while watching
> >>>>>>>> TV, you can change discs during every commercial
> >>>>>>>> break...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> And it's so volatile!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
> >>>>>>>> failures I've seen recently
> >>>>>>>> were a while in the making.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You really need
> >>>>>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for
> >>>>>>>>> this.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of the
> >>>>>>>> origional discs. And of
> >>>>>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright violation,
> >>>>>>> but I'll check later today.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am.
> >>>>>> There are many single point failures in a computer
> >>>>>> that can take it all away.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bob Morein
> >>>>>> (310) 237-6511
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just saying
> >>>>> that I don't think that Arny's suggestion breaks the
> >>>>> law.
> >>>>
> >>>> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I suggested
> >>>> not doing, as being "Arny's suggestion". Try calling it
> >>>> something like "Arny's Caution".
> >>>
> >>> Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just for
> >>> you Arny, I'll call it "Arny's Caution". Now will you
> >>> be able to remove that large bug from your bum?
> >>>
> >>>> And, it is well known that in order to maintain your
> >>>> license to possess a given recording in any form, you
> >>>> have to retain the original media. It's even common
> >>>> sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough
> >>>> about it.
> >>>
> >>> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that
> >>> you're incorrect in the above paragraph, will you
> >>> apologize for your snotty last sentence?
> >>
> >> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?
> >
> > Never mind. Too much trouble.
>
> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in grinding the same old
> axes than sharing insights.

It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You would simply argue
against them until you die.

Life's too short.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> > >>> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that
> > >>> you're incorrect in the above paragraph, will you
> > >>> apologize for your snotty last sentence?
> > >>
> > >> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?
> > >
> > > Never mind. Too much trouble.
> >
> > Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in grinding the same old
> > axes than sharing insights.
>
> It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You would simply argue
> against them until you die.

Were you aware that Arnii isn't allowed to have any alcoholic beverages?
It's a condition of his probation.

[Bill Riel]

In article >,
says...
> Bill Riel > wrote:
>
> No, *you* are not confused - he's responding to me Paul Dormer, as a
> quick glance at the headers show (I've used the same static IP/email
> address for years). However he's "talking to" Mike Mossey, who was
> quoted in my post... ;-)

Ah good.

I saw your post, then I saw Mr Krueger reply to someone named Mike (he
was incensed enough that he even changed the subject heading). The whole
episode struck me as quite amusing.

--
Bill

[Jenn]

In article >,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> >>
> >> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in grinding the same
> >> old
> >> axes than sharing insights.
> >
> > It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You would simply argue
> > against them until you die.
>
> So...they're still shared.

Huh?

[Clyde Slick]

On 5 Dec, 20:57, "ScottW" > wrote:


>
> So...they're still shared. You act like usenet is PtoP.
>

with Arny, its PloP

[George M. Middius]

Poor, dumb Scottiedork yapped:

> >> > It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You would simply argue
> >> > against them until you die.

> >> So...they're still shared.

> > Huh?

> Once again[sic] Jenn, there are for[sic] more people reading the posts
> than[sic] Arny who may have a passing interest in your insight
> whether Arny accepts it or not.

Apparently you're telling Jenn that she has an obligation to expatiate
on every subject broached by the Krooborg because certain silent lurkers
want to read her answers. First question: Why don't these "more people"
ask the questions they want answered? Second question: Why do you
believe "there are more people" who want her answers? Third question:
Why are you such a peabrain?

BTW, I didn't even put [sic] after your numerous punctuation errors.
Even after all these years, it still amazes me that you want people to
take your opinions seriously when you can't even express yourself
properly. Even so, let's hear it for Asperger's survivors. ;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Bill Riel" > wrote in message
t
> In article >,
> says...
>
>> you don't think that Jenn is a big girl and can fight her
>> own battles.
>
> Wow - do you really think Jenn is fighting a battle?

Thanks Bill for showing that you are too simple minded to use figures of
speech with. Actually, you're too stupid to bother with.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> .
>>>> net
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >, "Arny
>>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> y.
>>>>>> com
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
>>>>>>>> in message
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ig
>>>>>>>> y.
>>>>>>>> com
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a
>>>>>>>>>>> lengthy endeavor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less.
>>>>>>>>>> If you do it while watching
>>>>>>>>>> TV, you can change discs during every commercial
>>>>>>>>>> break...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And it's so volatile!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
>>>>>>>>>> failures I've seen recently
>>>>>>>>>> were a while in the making.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You really need
>>>>>>>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for
>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of
>>>>>>>>>> the origional discs. And of
>>>>>>>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright
>>>>>>>>> violation, but I'll check later today.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am.
>>>>>>>> There are many single point failures in a computer
>>>>>>>> that can take it all away.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just
>>>>>>> saying that I don't think that Arny's suggestion
>>>>>>> breaks the law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I suggested
>>>>>> not doing, as being "Arny's suggestion". Try calling
>>>>>> it something like "Arny's Caution".
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just for
>>>>> you Arny, I'll call it "Arny's Caution". Now will you
>>>>> be able to remove that large bug from your bum?
>>>>>
>>>>>> And, it is well known that in order to maintain your
>>>>>> license to possess a given recording in any form, you
>>>>>> have to retain the original media. It's even common
>>>>>> sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough
>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that
>>>>> you're incorrect in the above paragraph, will you
>>>>> apologize for your snotty last sentence?
>>>>
>>>> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?
>>>
>>> Never mind. Too much trouble.
>>
>> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in
>> grinding the same old axes than sharing insights.
>
> It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You
> would simply argue against them until you die.
>
> Life's too short.

Apparently not, because you keep trying to stretch this thread out. You
killed it several posts ago.

[Clyde Slick]

On 6 Dec, 00:16, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Bill Riel" > wrote in message
>
> t
>
> > In article >,
> > says...
>
> >> you don't think that Jenn is a big girl and can fight her
> >> own battles.
>
> > Wow - do you really think Jenn is fighting a battle?
>
> Thanks Bill for showing that you are too simple minded to use figures of
> speech with. Actually, you're too stupid to bother with.

there you go again, failure to be accountable for
your words.
thanks for admitting that we are not supposed to believe
anything you say!!!

[Clyde Slick]

On 6 Dec, 00:17, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

>

>
> Apparently not, because you keep trying to stretch this thread out. You
> killed it several posts ago.


thanks for keeping it going some more.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 5, 11:28 pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 6 Dec, 00:17, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> > Apparently not, because you keep trying to stretch this thread out. You
> > killed it several posts ago.
>
> thanks for keeping it going some more.

He wants to give people like 2pid hope for a better tomorrow.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> net
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>> y.
> >>>> net
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> >, "Arny
> >>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>>>> message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ig
> >>>>>> y.
> >>>>>> com
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> >,
> >>>>>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
> >>>>>>>> in message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> od
> >>>>>>>> ig
> >>>>>>>> y.
> >>>>>>>> com
> >>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>>>> >,
> >>>>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote in
> >>>>>>>>>> message
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a
> >>>>>>>>>>> lengthy endeavor.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less.
> >>>>>>>>>> If you do it while watching
> >>>>>>>>>> TV, you can change discs during every commercial
> >>>>>>>>>> break...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> And it's so volatile!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
> >>>>>>>>>> failures I've seen recently
> >>>>>>>>>> were a while in the making.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You really need
> >>>>>>>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for
> >>>>>>>>>>> this.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of
> >>>>>>>>>> the origional discs. And of
> >>>>>>>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright
> >>>>>>>>> violation, but I'll check later today.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am.
> >>>>>>>> There are many single point failures in a computer
> >>>>>>>> that can take it all away.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Bob Morein
> >>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just
> >>>>>>> saying that I don't think that Arny's suggestion
> >>>>>>> breaks the law.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I suggested
> >>>>>> not doing, as being "Arny's suggestion". Try calling
> >>>>>> it something like "Arny's Caution".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just for
> >>>>> you Arny, I'll call it "Arny's Caution". Now will you
> >>>>> be able to remove that large bug from your bum?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> And, it is well known that in order to maintain your
> >>>>>> license to possess a given recording in any form, you
> >>>>>> have to retain the original media. It's even common
> >>>>>> sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough
> >>>>>> about it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that
> >>>>> you're incorrect in the above paragraph, will you
> >>>>> apologize for your snotty last sentence?
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?
> >>>
> >>> Never mind. Too much trouble.
> >>
> >> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in
> >> grinding the same old axes than sharing insights.
> >
> > It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You
> > would simply argue against them until you die.
> >
> > Life's too short.
>
> Apparently not, because you keep trying to stretch this thread out. You
> killed it several posts ago.

I both "keep trying to stretch this thread out" and "killed it several
posts ago"? Ummm...

But one last time just for you, Arny: I simply said that I didn't
believe that getting rid of one's CDs after ripping them and saving the
files constitutes breaking the copyright law. You replied with your
typical snot, as seen above. That's all.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> net
> >> ...
> >> >>
> >> >> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in grinding the
> >> >> same
> >> >> old
> >> >> axes than sharing insights.
> >> >
> >> > It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You would simply argue
> >> > against them until you die.
> >>
> >> So...they're still shared.
> >
> > Huh?
>
> Once again Jenn, there are for more people reading the posts
> than Arny who may have a passing interest in your insight
> whether Arny accepts it or not.
>
> ScottW

OK, I see. Point taken. I'll look up the law later today at work and
get back.

I know that the RIAA has opined that the practice is against the law,
but I don't believe that it actually is.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "ScottW" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>> ...
>>> In article >,
>>> "ScottW" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> .
>>>> net ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested
>>>>>> in grinding the same
>>>>>> old
>>>>>> axes than sharing insights.
>>>>>
>>>>> It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You
>>>>> would simply argue against them until you die.
>>>>
>>>> So...they're still shared.
>>>
>>> Huh?

>> Once again Jenn, there are for more people reading the
>> posts than Arny who may have a passing interest in your
>> insight whether Arny accepts it or not.

Right Scott. Jenn has become completely focussed on spilling my blood, and
has forgotten that there are a few people outside the Middiot's clique who
actually read these posts with the idea of learning something.

> OK, I see. Point taken. I'll look up the law later
> today at work and get back.

Thanks Jenn for admitting that your real problem is that you became unsure
of yourself. Hold that thought!

> I know that the RIAA has opined that the practice is
> against the law, but I don't believe that it actually is.

It will be a good lesson for you, Jenn.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> .
>>>> net
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >, "Arny
>>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> y.
>>>>>> net
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
>>>>>>>> in message
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ig
>>>>>>>> y.
>>>>>>>> com
>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
>>>>>>>>>> in message
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> od
>>>>>>>>>> ig
>>>>>>>>>> y.
>>>>>>>>>> com
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lengthy endeavor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you do it while watching
>>>>>>>>>>>> TV, you can change discs during every
>>>>>>>>>>>> commercial break...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's so volatile!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
>>>>>>>>>>>> failures I've seen recently
>>>>>>>>>>>> were a while in the making.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You really need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the origional discs. And of
>>>>>>>>>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright
>>>>>>>>>>> violation, but I'll check later today.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am.
>>>>>>>>>> There are many single point failures in a
>>>>>>>>>> computer that can take it all away.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just
>>>>>>>>> saying that I don't think that Arny's suggestion
>>>>>>>>> breaks the law.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I
>>>>>>>> suggested not doing, as being "Arny's suggestion".
>>>>>>>> Try calling it something like "Arny's Caution".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just
>>>>>>> for you Arny, I'll call it "Arny's Caution". Now
>>>>>>> will you be able to remove that large bug from your
>>>>>>> bum?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, it is well known that in order to maintain
>>>>>>>> your license to possess a given recording in any
>>>>>>>> form, you have to retain the original media. It's
>>>>>>>> even common sense if you can think deeply and
>>>>>>>> correctly enough about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that
>>>>>>> you're incorrect in the above paragraph, will you
>>>>>>> apologize for your snotty last sentence?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?
>>>>>
>>>>> Never mind. Too much trouble.
>>>>
>>>> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in
>>>> grinding the same old axes than sharing insights.
>>>
>>> It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You
>>> would simply argue against them until you die.
>>>
>>> Life's too short.
>>
>> Apparently not, because you keep trying to stretch this
>> thread out. You killed it several posts ago.
>
> I both "keep trying to stretch this thread out" and
> "killed it several posts ago"? Ummm...
>
> But one last time just for you, Arny: I simply said that
> I didn't believe that getting rid of one's CDs after
> ripping them and saving the files constitutes breaking
> the copyright law. You replied with your typical snot,
> as seen above. That's all.

One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a few things that I
actually know more than you about.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> net
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>> y.
> >>>> net
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> >, "Arny
> >>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>>>> message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ig
> >>>>>> y.
> >>>>>> net
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> >,
> >>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
> >>>>>>>> in message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> od
> >>>>>>>> ig
> >>>>>>>> y.
> >>>>>>>> com
> >>>>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>>>> >,
> >>>>>>>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote
> >>>>>>>>>> in message
> >>>>>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>>>>> pr
> >>>>>>>>>> od
> >>>>>>>>>> ig
> >>>>>>>>>> y.
> >>>>>>>>>> com
> >>>>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>>>>>> >,
> >>>>>>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "soundhaspriority" > wrote
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rippling a collection to hard disk is a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> lengthy endeavor.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Probably around 5-8 CDs per hour, more or less.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you do it while watching
> >>>>>>>>>>>> TV, you can change discs during every
> >>>>>>>>>>>> commercial break...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's so volatile!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hard drives can go away in a flash, though most
> >>>>>>>>>>>> failures I've seen recently
> >>>>>>>>>>>> were a while in the making.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You really need
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> duplicate or triplicate hard disk storage for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> That's more like a want, unless you dispose of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the origional discs. And of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> course, that breaks the copyright.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe that this is a copyright
> >>>>>>>>>>> violation, but I'll check later today.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Jenn, you are technologically nervier than I am.
> >>>>>>>>>> There are many single point failures in a
> >>>>>>>>>> computer that can take it all away.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Bob Morein
> >>>>>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Oh, I would never get rid of the CDs! I'm just
> >>>>>>>>> saying that I don't think that Arny's suggestion
> >>>>>>>>> breaks the law.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Typical of you Jenn, to characterize what I
> >>>>>>>> suggested not doing, as being "Arny's suggestion".
> >>>>>>>> Try calling it something like "Arny's Caution".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yeah, you suggested that it not be done. But just
> >>>>>>> for you Arny, I'll call it "Arny's Caution". Now
> >>>>>>> will you be able to remove that large bug from your
> >>>>>>> bum?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And, it is well known that in order to maintain
> >>>>>>>> your license to possess a given recording in any
> >>>>>>>> form, you have to retain the original media. It's
> >>>>>>>> even common sense if you can think deeply and
> >>>>>>>> correctly enough about it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just curious before I proceed: if I show you that
> >>>>>>> you're incorrect in the above paragraph, will you
> >>>>>>> apologize for your snotty last sentence?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, what you call proof or what I call proof?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Never mind. Too much trouble.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested in
> >>>> grinding the same old axes than sharing insights.
> >>>
> >>> It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You
> >>> would simply argue against them until you die.
> >>>
> >>> Life's too short.
> >>
> >> Apparently not, because you keep trying to stretch this
> >> thread out. You killed it several posts ago.
> >
> > I both "keep trying to stretch this thread out" and
> > "killed it several posts ago"? Ummm...
> >
> > But one last time just for you, Arny: I simply said that
> > I didn't believe that getting rid of one's CDs after
> > ripping them and saving the files constitutes breaking
> > the copyright law. You replied with your typical snot,
> > as seen above. That's all.
>
> One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a few things that I
> actually know more than you about.

I fully admit that there are a few things that you know more about than
do I.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 6, 10:14 am, Jenn > wrote:

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> > One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a few things that I
> > actually know more than you about.
>
> I fully admit that there are a few things that you know more about than
> do I.

For instance, I'd like to see you tell which state and county an
individual is from simply by smelling and tasting their stool.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> > One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a few things that I
> > actually know more than you about.

> I fully admit that there are a few things that you know more about than
> do I.

Jennn its like you're afraid, Jnnen to admit what those things are Jen.
Can we put you down for an order of humble pie Jeen?

[George M. Middius]

MiNe 109 said:

> > I fully admit that there are a few things that you know more about than
> > do I.

> My motto is "anything I can do, someone can do better."

Are you implying that Arnii Krooger didn't know that? Note, Stephen that
Arnii Krooger practically invented humility Setpehn.

[Jenn]

In article
>,
MiNe 109 > wrote:

> In article
>
> et>,
> Jenn > wrote:
>
> > > One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a few things that I
> > > actually know more than you about.
> >
> > I fully admit that there are a few things that you know more about than
> > do I.
>
> My motto is "anything I can do, someone can do better."
>
> Stephen

I fully agree.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article
> >,
> MiNe 109 > wrote:
>
>> In article
>>
>> et>,
>> Jenn > wrote:
>>
>>>> One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a
>>>> few things that I actually know more than you about.
>>>
>>> I fully admit that there are a few things that you know
>>> more about than do I.
>>
>> My motto is "anything I can do, someone can do better."

>> Stephen

> I fully agree.

Stephen and Jenn, it is getting boring seeing how your prattle degenerates
into irrelevancy so quickly.

The question at hand is not whether or not I'm the best copyright law expert
in the world. Or even whether I think I am. But, in your
scatter-mindedness, that's the question you want to address.

It is hard to believe that so many different people (5) could make the same
idiotic mistake in such a short period of time (less than an hour over-all,
three in less than 10 minutes)

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> net
> >> ...
> >>> In article >,
> >>> "ScottW" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>> y.
> >>>> net ...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jenn this goes to show that you are more interested
> >>>>>> in grinding the same
> >>>>>> old
> >>>>>> axes than sharing insights.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It wouldn't matter what insights I shared, Arny. You
> >>>>> would simply argue against them until you die.
> >>>>
> >>>> So...they're still shared.
> >>>
> >>> Huh?
>
> >> Once again Jenn, there are for more people reading the
> >> posts than Arny who may have a passing interest in your
> >> insight whether Arny accepts it or not.
>
> Right Scott. Jenn has become completely focussed on spilling my blood, and
> has forgotten that there are a few people outside the Middiot's clique who
> actually read these posts with the idea of learning something.
>
> > OK, I see. Point taken. I'll look up the law later
> > today at work and get back.
>
> Thanks Jenn for admitting that your real problem is that you became unsure
> of yourself. Hold that thought!
>
> > I know that the RIAA has opined that the practice is
> > against the law, but I don't believe that it actually is.
>
> It will be a good lesson for you, Jenn.

Preliminary research is indicating that according to current law, one
can't sell or give away the CDs, but you can destroy them or recycle
them. The later is what our college library did when they digitized its
LP collection and started circulating the CDs made from those digital
files.

[Jenn]

In article
>,
MiNe 109 > wrote:

> In article
>
> et>,
> Jenn > wrote:
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > MiNe 109 > wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > >
> > > et>,
> > > Jenn > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a few things that
> > > > > I
> > > > > actually know more than you about.
> > > >
> > > > I fully admit that there are a few things that you know more about than
> > > > do I.
> > >
> > > My motto is "anything I can do, someone can do better."
> > >
> > > Stephen
> >
> > I fully agree.
>
> Outdone again! :-)
>
> Stephen

Never! ;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message


> Preliminary research is indicating that according to
> current law, one can't sell or give away the CDs,

So far so good.

> but you can destroy them or recycle them.

After that, where's your proof that you didn't sell or give them away?

In order to do this sort of thing, the library would have to obtain
permission from the copyright owner of each recording. Seems like an awful
lot of work.

http://www.lib.jmu.edu/org/mla/Guidelines/Accepted%20Guidelines/Digital%20Reserves.aspx

says:

"Either the institution or the course instructor should own the original
that is used to make the digital file."

How do you prove ownership of something that you destroyed and/or threw
away? In fact you no longer own the things that you destroy and/or throw
away.

> The later is what our
> college library did when they digitized its LP collection
> and started circulating the CDs made from those digital
> files.

Pretty strange.

There's a point of law that says when you throw something away on publicly
acessible property, it becomes the property of whoever picks it up. That is
like giving the physical media away.

I did some checking around, and found that when libraries make shelf copies
of books, or make electronic copies of books for the purpose of facilitating
circulation and preserving the origional, the usual policy is to keep the
origional paper copy stashed away in an archive somewhere.

I also found that publishers are using their legal rights under the current
law to force libraries to control the digital or paper copies in such a way
that the total number of copies that are circulated is no more than the
number of copies that they purchased.

Sometimes it is possible for a library to obtain the rights to circulate so
many electronic copies of certain books, without actually taking delivery of
paper cop(ies). But that's not the general rule.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
>
> > Preliminary research is indicating that according to
> > current law, one can't sell or give away the CDs,
>
> So far so good.
>
> > but you can destroy them or recycle them.
>
> After that, where's your proof that you didn't sell or give them away?
>
> In order to do this sort of thing, the library would have to obtain
> permission from the copyright owner of each recording. Seems like an awful
> lot of work.
>
> http://www.lib.jmu.edu/org/mla/Guidelines/Accepted%20Guidelines/Digital%20Rese
> rves.aspx
>
> says:
>
> "Either the institution or the course instructor should own the original
> that is used to make the digital file."
>
> How do you prove ownership of something that you destroyed and/or threw
> away? In fact you no longer own the things that you destroy and/or throw
> away.

This is the view of the MLA. It's a position of what should happen;
it's not the law.

>
> > The later is what our
> > college library did when they digitized its LP collection
> > and started circulating the CDs made from those digital
> > files.
>
> Pretty strange.
>
> There's a point of law that says when you throw something away on publicly
> acessible property, it becomes the property of whoever picks it up. That is
> like giving the physical media away.

The concept behind this section of the copyright law is clearly that two
people can't own the rights to a recording. If you destroy or recycle
the original media (as opposed to giving it away) there is only one
person (or institution, etc.) who has control of the recording. The
person/institution has paid for the recording and no one else owns that
recording. It has simply changed form. The law seems to support the
legality of this, as there has been NO attempt to charge anyone with a
crime under these circumstances. My college's attorney's support this
view.

>
> I did some checking around, and found that when libraries make shelf copies
> of books, or make electronic copies of books for the purpose of facilitating
> circulation and preserving the origional, the usual policy is to keep the
> origional paper copy stashed away in an archive somewhere.
>
> I also found that publishers are using their legal rights under the current
> law to force libraries to control the digital or paper copies in such a way
> that the total number of copies that are circulated is no more than the
> number of copies that they purchased.
>
> Sometimes it is possible for a library to obtain the rights to circulate so
> many electronic copies of certain books, without actually taking delivery of
> paper cop(ies). But that's not the general rule.

All of the above is true and is well-known common practice. But the
situation with regarding LPs in the library, for example, it is a very
different situation because there is no means to listen to the LPs in
the library. This is different than a book, obviously, where the
original can still be used in the building.

[Clyde Slick]

On 6 Dec, 10:59, Jenn > wrote:


>
> But one last time just for you, Arny: I simply said that I didn't
> believe that getting rid of one's CDs after ripping them and saving the
> files constitutes breaking the copyright law. You replied with your
> typical snot, as seen above. That's all.

I thought it was a little runnier than typical.

[Clyde Slick]

On 6 Dec, 11:06, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:


>
> One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a few things that I
> actually know more than you about.

The English language is NOT one of them.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

Let's try to cut through the fog of insanity that grips GOIA's brain
like a powerful vise:

On Dec 6, 11:15 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in

> > MiNe 109 > wrote:

> >> Jenn > wrote:
>
> >>>> One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a
> >>>> few things that I actually know more than you about.

A general statement you made. It is true of anybody. I know more than
you do on many topics, GOIA, just as you know more than I do on some.
Jenn and Stephen know more than both of us on some topics, just like
we know more than they do on some topics.

A general statement, GOIA. General.

> >>> I fully admit that there are a few things that you know
> >>> more about than do I.

Jenn agrees, presumably because she understands the above.

> >> My motto is "anything I can do, someone can do better."
> >> Stephen

So does Stephen.

> > I fully agree.

Jenn also agrees with Stephen's comment.

> Stephen and Jenn, it is getting boring seeing how your prattle degenerates
> into irrelevancy so quickly.

Uh-oh, somebody suddenly does not agree with the statement you made.
Hey, wait a minute! You don't agree with your own statement!

> The question at hand is not whether or not I'm the best copyright law expert
> in the world. Or even whether I think I am. But, in your
> scatter-mindedness, that's the question you want to address.

Um, we're moving from the extremely general to the really specific
here, GOIA.

> It is hard to believe that so many different people (5) could make the same
> idiotic mistake in such a short period of time (less than an hour over-all,
> three in less than 10 minutes)

Either five people made the very same mistake, or one made an entirely
different one. Which seems more logical you you, GOIA? How can it be
that everybody makes mistakes but you?;-)

Why is everybody out to get you? LOL!

[George M. Middius]

Shhhh! said to Turdborg:

> Why is everybody out to get you?

Do you want the real reason or the Scottie Reason? ;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>
>>> Preliminary research is indicating that according to
>>> current law, one can't sell or give away the CDs,
>>
>> So far so good.
>>
>>> but you can destroy them or recycle them.
>>
>> After that, where's your proof that you didn't sell or
>> give them away?
>>
>> In order to do this sort of thing, the library would
>> have to obtain permission from the copyright owner of
>> each recording. Seems like an awful lot of work.
>>
>> http://www.lib.jmu.edu/org/mla/Guidelines/Accepted%20Guidelines/Digital%20Rese
>> rves.aspx
>>
>> says:
>>
>> "Either the institution or the course instructor should
>> own the original that is used to make the digital file."
>>
>> How do you prove ownership of something that you
>> destroyed and/or threw away? In fact you no longer own
>> the things that you destroy and/or throw away.
>
> This is the view of the MLA. It's a position of what
> should happen; it's not the law.
>
>>
>>> The later is what our
>>> college library did when they digitized its LP
>>> collection and started circulating the CDs made from
>>> those digital files.
>>
>> Pretty strange.
>>
>> There's a point of law that says when you throw
>> something away on publicly acessible property, it
>> becomes the property of whoever picks it up. That is
>> like giving the physical media away.
>
> The concept behind this section of the copyright law is
> clearly that two people can't own the rights to a
> recording. If you destroy or recycle the original media
> (as opposed to giving it away) there is only one person
> (or institution, etc.) who has control of the recording.
> The person/institution has paid for the recording and no
> one else owns that recording. It has simply changed
> form. The law seems to support the legality of this, as
> there has been NO attempt to charge anyone with a crime
> under these circumstances. My college's attorney's
> support this view.

Of course.

>> I did some checking around, and found that when
>> libraries make shelf copies of books, or make electronic
>> copies of books for the purpose of facilitating
>> circulation and preserving the origional, the usual
>> policy is to keep the origional paper copy stashed away
>> in an archive somewhere.
>>
>> I also found that publishers are using their legal
>> rights under the current law to force libraries to
>> control the digital or paper copies in such a way that
>> the total number of copies that are circulated is no
>> more than the number of copies that they purchased.
>>
>> Sometimes it is possible for a library to obtain the
>> rights to circulate so many electronic copies of certain
>> books, without actually taking delivery of paper
>> cop(ies). But that's not the general rule.

> All of the above is true and is well-known common
> practice. But the situation with regarding LPs in the
> library, for example, it is a very different situation
> because there is no means to listen to the LPs in the
> library.

That's not a legal issue.

> This is different than a book, obviously, where
> the original can still be used in the building.

Actually, the LPs could be played if someone wanted to do the work. We both
know that playing LPs isn't rocket science.

Furthermore this is all irrelevant to the question of disposing of the media
after digitization. Do try to focus, Jenn.

[dizzy]

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason! wrote:

>On Dec 6, 10:14 am, Jenn > wrote:
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> > One of these days Jenn, you'll learn that there are a few things that I
>> > actually know more than you about.
>>
>> I fully admit that there are a few things that you know more about than
>> do I.
>
>For instance, I'd like to see you tell which state and county an
>individual is from simply by smelling and tasting their stool.

LOL

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> net
> >>
> >>> Preliminary research is indicating that according to
> >>> current law, one can't sell or give away the CDs,
> >>
> >> So far so good.
> >>
> >>> but you can destroy them or recycle them.
> >>
> >> After that, where's your proof that you didn't sell or
> >> give them away?
> >>
> >> In order to do this sort of thing, the library would
> >> have to obtain permission from the copyright owner of
> >> each recording. Seems like an awful lot of work.
> >>
> >> http://www.lib.jmu.edu/org/mla/Guidelines/Accepted%20Guidelines/Digital%20R
> >> ese
> >> rves.aspx
> >>
> >> says:
> >>
> >> "Either the institution or the course instructor should
> >> own the original that is used to make the digital file."
> >>
> >> How do you prove ownership of something that you
> >> destroyed and/or threw away? In fact you no longer own
> >> the things that you destroy and/or throw away.
> >
> > This is the view of the MLA. It's a position of what
> > should happen; it's not the law.
> >
> >>
> >>> The later is what our
> >>> college library did when they digitized its LP
> >>> collection and started circulating the CDs made from
> >>> those digital files.
> >>
> >> Pretty strange.
> >>
> >> There's a point of law that says when you throw
> >> something away on publicly acessible property, it
> >> becomes the property of whoever picks it up. That is
> >> like giving the physical media away.
> >
> > The concept behind this section of the copyright law is
> > clearly that two people can't own the rights to a
> > recording. If you destroy or recycle the original media
> > (as opposed to giving it away) there is only one person
> > (or institution, etc.) who has control of the recording.
> > The person/institution has paid for the recording and no
> > one else owns that recording. It has simply changed
> > form. The law seems to support the legality of this, as
> > there has been NO attempt to charge anyone with a crime
> > under these circumstances. My college's attorney's
> > support this view.
>
> Of course.
>
> >> I did some checking around, and found that when
> >> libraries make shelf copies of books, or make electronic
> >> copies of books for the purpose of facilitating
> >> circulation and preserving the origional, the usual
> >> policy is to keep the origional paper copy stashed away
> >> in an archive somewhere.
> >>
> >> I also found that publishers are using their legal
> >> rights under the current law to force libraries to
> >> control the digital or paper copies in such a way that
> >> the total number of copies that are circulated is no
> >> more than the number of copies that they purchased.
> >>
> >> Sometimes it is possible for a library to obtain the
> >> rights to circulate so many electronic copies of certain
> >> books, without actually taking delivery of paper
> >> cop(ies). But that's not the general rule.
>
> > All of the above is true and is well-known common
> > practice. But the situation with regarding LPs in the
> > library, for example, it is a very different situation
> > because there is no means to listen to the LPs in the
> > library.
>
> That's not a legal issue.
>
> > This is different than a book, obviously, where
> > the original can still be used in the building.
>
> Actually, the LPs could be played if someone wanted to do the work. We both
> know that playing LPs isn't rocket science.

It is if there are no TTs in the building.

>
> Furthermore this is all irrelevant to the question of disposing of the media
> after digitization.

>Do try to focus, Jenn.

Do be back in touch after you blow your nose.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message


> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

>> Jenn wrote:

>>> This is different than a book, obviously, where
>>> the original can still be used in the building.

>> Actually, the LPs could be played if someone wanted to
>> do the work. We both know that playing LPs isn't rocket
>> science.

> It is if there are no TTs in the building.

As if?

>> Furthermore this is all irrelevant to the question of
>> disposing of the media after digitization.

>> Do try to focus, Jenn.

> Do be back in touch after you blow your nose.

I'll just wait for your next post for my refill, Jenn. Well, that and the
rest of the Middot's posse.

The same inability to focus is pretty consistant accross the posts from the
whole lot of you.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> >> Jenn wrote:
>
> >>> This is different than a book, obviously, where
> >>> the original can still be used in the building.
>
> >> Actually, the LPs could be played if someone wanted to
> >> do the work. We both know that playing LPs isn't rocket
> >> science.
>
> > It is if there are no TTs in the building.
>
> As if?
>
> >> Furthermore this is all irrelevant to the question of
> >> disposing of the media after digitization.
>
> >> Do try to focus, Jenn.
>
> > Do be back in touch after you blow your nose.
>
> I'll just wait for your next post for my refill, Jenn. Well, that and the
> rest of the Middot's posse.
>
> The same inability to focus is pretty consistant accross the posts from the
> whole lot of you.

Arny, I'm curious. Is it possible for you to have a conversation with
me without an argument? If you read this thread through, it's quite
obvious that you started this. All I did was politely state that I
don't think you were right on the copyright thing. Here's the breakdown:

In post 23, I thanked you for the info you offered.

In post 43, you made your statement on the copyright issue.

In post 44, I said, "I don't believe that this is a copyright violation,
but I'll check later today."

In post 56, your next post in the thread, you wrote, "Typical of you
Jenn, to characterize what I suggested not doing, as being
"Arny's suggestion". Try calling it something like "Arny's Caution".
And, it is well known that in order to maintain your license to possess
a given recording in any form, you have to retain the original media.
It's even common sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough
about it."

So I as a sincere question: Is it possible for you to have a polite
conversation with me? If not, I'll thank you for being candid and I
will stop trying.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 8:56 am, Jenn > wrote:

> So I as a sincere question: Is it possible for you to have a polite
> conversation with me? If not, I'll thank you for being candid and I
> will stop trying.

Way to keep this thread going, Jenn, when you killed it long ago.

Did you not state that you had a lawyer's opinion on the copyright
issue, or is my memory faulty? If so, leave it GOIA to think he knows
more than a lawyer. Maybe you should get the lawyer involved in this
thread before it dies out...

BTW, some of us here have the impression that GOIA has some severe
mental issues. Not that an attempt to be polite with GOIA is a waste
of time or anything...:-)

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 11:58 am, ScottW > wrote:
> On Dec 7, 6:56 am, Jenn > wrote:

> > So I as a sincere question: Is it possible for you to have a polite
> > conversation with me? If not, I'll thank you for being candid and I
> > will stop trying.
>
> I can think of 3 regulars there is no point in trying to have polite
> conversation with.

And what, IYO, do you bring to the game?

> Arny is one that might have some technical knowledge worth
> enduring the negatives for. The others got nothing.

And what do you get?

Note, dear Scott, that there are no insults. So it appears you have no
reason to do the duck-and-cover.

[George M. Middius]

Shhhh! said:

> Did you not state that you had a lawyer's opinion on the copyright
> issue, or is my memory faulty? If so, leave it GOIA to think he knows
> more than a lawyer.

Actually, the Kroo believes lawyers are afraid of him.[1]


_______________________

[1] This belief stems from one of the late revisions of the Wheeler
Lawsuit Incident. In between bouts of claiming he "won" the lawsuit by
outsmarting Wheeler, the Krooborg gradually shifted to a more expansive
"explanation" of his "victory". I believe somebody suggested that what
lawyers do might actually constitute a real-life "debating trade". The
Krooborg, "knowing" that he is the foremost "master of the debating
trade", used Kroologic to deduce that he is superior to all lawyers at
"debating". Therefore lawyers are "afraid" of him.

[Andy C[_2_]]

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:12:47 +0000, Signal wrote:

> I'm running an XBOX with XBMC streaming from a PC. XBMC is an open
> source project so is free, XBOXs are like £20. You do need to feed the
> dig signal to an external DAC for audiophile sound quality, and a
> little softmodding is required to get up an running.. so this isn't an
> answer to Jenn's query, but it's so damned fine I shall comment
> further.. :)
>
> XBMC plays practically *any* audio/video source you throw at it,
> including all the standard non-DRM audio codecs (below is a list of
> current supported codecs), and more besides. Here are a few examples:
> play and record internet audio streams, rip CDs, download album covers
> and reviews, create playlists, import itune libraries, visualizations,
> slideshows, TV guides, youtube clips, local weather reports. You can
> watch video streams, GodTV is good for a larf... :-) Oh, and you don't
> need your PC switched on for the internet, or to play music stored on
> the internal drive or on discs.
>
> One of the beauties of the system is, since the controller is analogue
> and has many buttons, navigation is a breeze. No matter how long or
> short a file is.. you can zip to any position quickly using the X axis
> on the joystick. You have buttons to jump back 10s, back or fowards a
> minute at a time, FFW/RW on the triggers, etc. With the 'Y' button you
> can get full specs of the audio file being played (eg. bitrate for
> MP3s). On the analogue Y axis you have volume control. The joystick is
> very sensitive and accurate - it's lush. Once you get used to all
> this, other navigation methods seem primitive. I wish other hardware
> was this good.
>
> XBMC is a revelation in multimedia convergence. Users are more often
> than not smitten by it, it's *that* good. :-) I'm sure many will look
> down their nose at a 'games console' in a high end system, and having
> to use a screen (again, once you get used to the navigation.. hard to
> turn back), but the hardware is no joke - it's basically a linux PC
> running very sophisticated bespoke software. Not that I'm knocking
> squeezebox either, that looks like a cool piece of kit!
>
>
> (list of supported formats elided)

I read about XBox and XBMC over at AVSForum and it looked interesting. In
the U.S., the Game Stop stores apparently sell the used XBoxes for a
reasonable price. One thing I read on AVSForum is that the XBox has a
noisy fan. Is that true, or is it an exaggeration?

My music files are on a RAID5 array in my Windows computer in a different
room. I can connect to it with wireless, and I also have homeplug adapters
that I have bought but haven't tried yet. Can the XBox "see" the shared
Windows drive (using Samba, or whatever)?

Thanks.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 12:57 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast .
net> wrote:
> Shhhh! said:
>
> > Did you not state that you had a lawyer's opinion on the copyright
> > issue, or is my memory faulty? If so, leave it GOIA to think he knows
> > more than a lawyer.
>
> Actually, the Kroo believes lawyers are afraid of him.[1]
>
> _______________________
>
> [1] This belief stems from one of the late revisions of the Wheeler
> Lawsuit Incident. In between bouts of claiming he "won" the lawsuit by
> outsmarting Wheeler, the Krooborg gradually shifted to a more expansive
> "explanation" of his "victory". I believe somebody suggested that what
> lawyers do might actually constitute a real-life "debating trade". The
> Krooborg, "knowing" that he is the foremost "master of the debating
> trade", used Kroologic to deduce that he is superior to all lawyers at
> "debating". Therefore lawyers are "afraid" of him.

My guess is that there is some truth to this. If I had to debate with
someone with a voice as whiny as GOIA's is, I might be tempted to
simply withdraw and allow him to claim 'victory'.

I'd rather listen to fingernails on a chalkboard.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 3:09 pm, ScottW > wrote:
> On Dec 7, 10:20 am, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
>
> > wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 11:58 am, ScottW > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 6:56 am, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > So I as a sincere question: Is it possible for you to have a polite
> > > > conversation with me? If not, I'll thank you for being candid and I
> > > > will stop trying.
>
> > > I can think of 3 regulars there is no point in trying to have polite
> > > conversation with.
>
> > And what, IYO, do you bring to the game?
>
> Myself.

And what, dear Scott, would make you believe that is worth anything?

[George M. Middius]

Shhhh! said:

> > > And what, IYO, do you bring to the game?
> >
> > Myself.
>
> And what, dear Scott, would make you believe that is worth anything?

Nothing is worse than $(*%! swearing, you know.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 4:00 pm, ScottW > wrote:
> On Dec 7, 1:41 pm, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

> > wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 3:09 pm, ScottW > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 10:20 am, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

> > > > And what, IYO, do you bring to the game?
>
> > > Myself.
>
> > And what, dear Scott, would make you believe that is worth anything?
>
> Nothing to you obviously....so I have no idea why you spend
> so much time.....apparently it's not worth anything.

Dear Scott, I didn't ask *me* what I thought you were worth, I asked
*you*.

Since it appears that you misapprehended my question, I'll ask it
again: What would make *you* believe that your being here is worth
anything?

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 4:00 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Shhhh! said:
>
> > > > And what, IYO, do you bring to the game?
>
> > > Myself.
>
> > And what, dear Scott, would make you believe that is worth anything?
>
> Nothing is worse than $(*%! swearing, you know.

Ah, I wish I'd served in the Army. I've been told that everything is
an "effing" something or another there. Those people probably have
thicker skins. It's not like the thin skins one might find here in a
poster or two, those whose delicate 'sensibilities' are upset by the
slightest things...

[George M. Middius]

Shhhh! said:

> > Nothing is worse than $(*%! swearing, you know.

> Ah, I wish I'd served in the Army. I've been told that everything is
> an "effing" something or another there. Those people probably have
> thicker skins. It's not like the thin skins one might find here in a
> poster or two, those whose delicate 'sensibilities' are upset by the
> slightest things...

I know what you mean. Prior to frolicking on RAO, I had no idea that the
rejoinder "Not quite" carried with it an insult tantamount to an
invitation to a formal duel.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 5:25 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Shhhh! said:
>
> > > Nothing is worse than $(*%! swearing, you know.
> > Ah, I wish I'd served in the Army. I've been told that everything is
> > an "effing" something or another there. Those people probably have
> > thicker skins. It's not like the thin skins one might find here in a
> > poster or two, those whose delicate 'sensibilities' are upset by the
> > slightest things...
>
> I know what you mean. Prior to frolicking on RAO, I had no idea that the
> rejoinder "Not quite" carried with it an insult tantamount to an
> invitation to a formal duel.

Oh god. You didn't say that to GOIA, did you?

Them's fighting words.

[Jenn]

In article
>,
ScottW > wrote:

> On Dec 7, 6:56 am, Jenn > wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > "Jenn" > wrote in
> > > message
> > .
> > >com
> >
> > > > In article >,
> > > > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> > > >> Jenn wrote:
> >
> > > >>> This is different than a book, obviously, where
> > > >>> the original can still be used in the building.
> >
> > > >> Actually, the LPs could be played if someone wanted to
> > > >> do the work. We both know that playing LPs isn't rocket
> > > >> science.
> >
> > > > It is if there are no TTs in the building.
> >
> > > As if?
> >
> > > >> Furthermore this is all irrelevant to the question of
> > > >> disposing of the media after digitization.
> >
> > > >> Do try to focus, Jenn.
> >
> > > > Do be back in touch after you blow your nose.
> >
> > > I'll just wait for your next post for my refill, Jenn. Well, that and the
> > > rest of the Middot's posse.
> >
> > > The same inability to focus is pretty consistant accross the posts from
> > > the
> > > whole lot of you.
> >
> > Arny, I'm curious. Is it possible for you to have a conversation with
> > me without an argument? If you read this thread through, it's quite
> > obvious that you started this. All I did was politely state that I
> > don't think you were right on the copyright thing. Here's the breakdown:
> >
> > In post 23, I thanked you for the info you offered.
> >
> > In post 43, you made your statement on the copyright issue.
> >
> > In post 44, I said, "I don't believe that this is a copyright violation,
> > but I'll check later today."
> >
> > In post 56, your next post in the thread, you wrote, "Typical of you
> > Jenn, to characterize what I suggested not doing, as being
> > "Arny's suggestion". Try calling it something like "Arny's Caution".
> > And, it is well known that in order to maintain your license to possess
> > a given recording in any form, you have to retain the original media.
> > It's even common sense if you can think deeply and correctly enough
> > about it."
> >
> > So I as a sincere question: Is it possible for you to have a polite
> > conversation with me? If not, I'll thank you for being candid and I
> > will stop trying.
>
> I can think of 3 regulars there is no point in trying to have polite
> conversation with.
> Arny is one that might have some technical knowledge worth
> enduring the negatives for. The others got nothing.
> I hope it doesn't take you a year or more to discover
> this for each.
>
> ScottW

Everyone seems to be able to have polite conversation with me except
Arny, at times you, and the President of our college union.

A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital. I'm on dinner break
while her folks sit with her. She'll be fine, but it's hard to see her
in the hospital and all drugged up to stop the pain.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 6:14 pm, ScottW > wrote:
> On Dec 7, 2:32 pm, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 4:00 pm, ScottW > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 1:41 pm, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > On Dec 7, 3:09 pm, ScottW > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 7, 10:20 am, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > > And what, IYO, do you bring to the game?
>
> > > > > Myself.
>
> > > > And what, dear Scott, would make you believe that is worth anything?
>
> > > Nothing to you obviously....so I have no idea why you spend
> > > so much time.....apparently it's not worth anything.
>
> > Dear Scott, I didn't ask *me* what I thought you were worth, I asked
> > *you*.
>
> Value is subjective.

Dear Scott, then subjectively what value do you feel that you bring
here?

> > Since it appears that you misapprehended my question, I'll ask it
> > again: What would make *you* believe that your being here is worth
> > anything?
>
> Nothing to you.

This is getting unecessarily difficult.

Again, I did not ask you what value you think that I think you bring
here. I asked you directly what value you think that you bring here.

I'm really not sure how to ask the question more clearly than that.
I'm open to politely discuss those areas of the question that are
giving you problems. Is there some part of "What value do *you* think
that *you* bring here?" the meaning of which eludes you? I will
politely try to clear up those areas for you to insure that you
understand the question. I'll promise to stay polite, even if it takes
us a month!

> Everything to George. He lives for ridicule.

And this one seemingly came in from left field, I'm afraid. George was
never mentioned before by either of us. I certainly didn't ask you
what your impression was of George's opinion of your value either.

> Actually, perhaps I'm underestimating my value to you.

This is fine, although it isn't even close to the question at hand,
dear Scott. We're getting colder, I'm very sorry to say.

> Without me...you got nothing.

I'm afraid it does begin to appear that you misapprehended the
question yet again, dear Scott.

> What is it worth to you to make up these questions?

I'm afraid that I cannot answer that, as you are seemingly avoiding my
question. Answering a question with a question is not an answer, at
least in this form. I'll try to answer that once this other question
is answered.

So again, dear Scott, what value do you think that you bring here? Not
me, George, GOIA, Stephen, Jenn, JA or anybody else. You.

What value do *you* think that *you* bring here?

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message

> On Dec 7, 10:20 am, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 11:58 am, ScottW > wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 7, 6:56 am, Jenn
>>> > wrote:
>>>> So I as a sincere question: Is it possible for you to
>>>> have a polite conversation with me? If not, I'll
>>>> thank you for being candid and I will stop trying.
>>
>>> I can think of 3 regulars there is no point in trying
>>> to have polite conversation with.
>>
>> And what, IYO, do you bring to the game?
>
> Myself.

And a lack of discernment, if you think that only 3 of the regulars will
totally frustrate any attempts at am intelligent conversation.

Do you guys know what your reputation is on other newsgroups?

Dumb, dumber, dumbest, and several more even stronger permutations of dumb
after that. :-(

[Bill Riel]

In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-7A03BE.16301707122007
@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
says...

> A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital. I'm on dinner break
> while her folks sit with her. She'll be fine, but it's hard to see her
> in the hospital and all drugged up to stop the pain.

Very sorry to hear that, Jenn.

I hope and pray that she'll recover quickly and completely, and be pain
free.

--
Bill

[George M. Middius]

Shhhh! said:

> > Prior to frolicking on RAO, I had no idea that the
> > rejoinder "Not quite" carried with it an insult tantamount to an
> > invitation to a formal duel.

> Oh god. You didn't say that to GOIA, did you?

JA said it.

> Them's fighting words.

Indeed. The Krooborg's ensuing hissy-fit was one for the books.

[George M. Middius]

Snottyborg turns on a sometime Kroopologist.

> >> And what, IYO, do you bring to the game?

> > Myself.

> And a lack of discernment

Arnii, it's so sad to see you lashing out at poor Witless. He's been
making excuses for you left and right in recent weeks.

Why are you such a poor approximation of a human being?

[Jenn]

In article >,
Bill Riel > wrote:

> In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-7A03BE.16301707122007
> @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> says...
>
> > A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital. I'm on dinner break
> > while her folks sit with her. She'll be fine, but it's hard to see her
> > in the hospital and all drugged up to stop the pain.
>
> Very sorry to hear that, Jenn.
>
> I hope and pray that she'll recover quickly and completely, and be pain
> free.
>
> --
> Bill

Thanks so much, Bill. She'll loose her gallbladder in a couple of days
and will be fine, we trust.

[Clyde Slick]

On 7 Dec, 21:13, Jenn > wrote:
> In article >,
> Bill Riel > wrote:
>
> > In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-7A03BE.16301707122007
> > @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> > says...
>
> > > A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital. I'm on dinner break
> > > while her folks sit with her. She'll be fine, but it's hard to see her
> > > in the hospital and all drugged up to stop the pain.
>
> > Very sorry to hear that, Jenn.
>
> > I hope and pray that she'll recover quickly and completely, and be pain
> > free.
>
> > --
> > Bill
>
> Thanks so much, Bill. She'll loose her gallbladder in a couple of days
> and will be fine, we trust.

best wishes for your love's recovery
i don't pray, though
sorry, can't make an exception!

[George M. Middius]

MiNe 109 said:

> > > A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital.

> > I hope and pray that she'll recover quickly and completely, and be pain
> > free.

> Seconded.

Absotively! (Except for praying.)

[George M. Middius]

Witlessmongrel yaps incoherently.

> But in truth George only refrains from ripping you
> as long as you engage in the anti-Arny games and you let him
> be king cat of the kitty litter....but you know that.

What do you imagine my problem with Jenn is? And why would I restrain
myself from unloading on her when I've never, ever held back with
anybody else in all my years playing on RAO?

[George M. Middius]

The Idiot admits he doesn't understand his own posts.

> > Witlessmongrel yaps incoherently.

> >> But in truth George only refrains from ripping you
> >> as long as you engage in the anti-Arny games and you let him
> >> be king cat of the kitty litter....but you know that.

> > What do you imagine my problem with Jenn is? And why would I restrain
> > myself from unloading on her when I've never, ever held back with
> > anybody else in all my years playing on RAO?

> Still playing after all these years....

Well, that's settled. You're an empty-headed, insincere troll. So much
for your desire for "discussions".

[John Atkinson]

On Dec 7, 8:44 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Shhhh! said:
> > > Prior to frolicking on RAO, I had no idea that the
> > > rejoinder "Not quite" carried with it an insult tantamount to an
> > > invitation to a formal duel.
> >
> > Oh god. You didn't say that to GOIA, did you?
>
> JA said it.
>
> > Them's fighting words.
>
> Indeed. The Krooborg's ensuing hissy-fit was one for the books.

Quite.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[John Atkinson]

On Dec 7, 7:30 pm, Jenn > wrote:
> A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital. I'm on dinner break
> while her folks sit with her. She'll be fine, but it's hard to see her
> in the hospital and all drugged up to stop the pain.

My thoughts are with you both, Jenn.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[John Atkinson]

On Dec 7, 10:01 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast .
net> wrote:
> MiNe 109 said:
> > > > A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital.
> > >
> > > I hope and pray that she'll recover quickly and completely,
> > >and be pain free.
> >
> > Seconded.
>
> Absotively!

A Neil Gaimain reference?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[George M. Middius]

John Atkinson said:

> > > > > A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital.
> > > >
> > > > I hope and pray that she'll recover quickly and completely,
> > > >and be pain free.
> > >
> > > Seconded.
> >
> > Absotively!
>
> A Neil Gaimain reference?

Can't get anything past you, John! :-)

Uh.... Who's Neil Gaimain?

[Jenn]

In article
>,
John Atkinson > wrote:

> On Dec 7, 7:30 pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital. I'm on dinner break
> > while her folks sit with her. She'll be fine, but it's hard to see her
> > in the hospital and all drugged up to stop the pain.
>
> My thoughts are with you both, Jenn.
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile

Thanks, John.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"ScottW" > wrote:
>
> My best wishes for a speedy and full recovery.
>
> ScottW

Thank you.

[Jenn]

In article
>,
MiNe 109 > wrote:

> In article >,
> Bill Riel > wrote:
>
> > In article <jennconductsREMOVETHIS-7A03BE.16301707122007
> > @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> > says...
> >
> > > A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital. I'm on dinner break
> > > while her folks sit with her. She'll be fine, but it's hard to see her
> > > in the hospital and all drugged up to stop the pain.
> >
> > Very sorry to hear that, Jenn.
> >
> > I hope and pray that she'll recover quickly and completely, and be pain
> > free.
>
> Seconded.
>
> Stephen

Thanks, Stephen. I appreciate it.

[Jenn]

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:

> MiNe 109 said:
>
> > > > A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital.
>
> > > I hope and pray that she'll recover quickly and completely, and be pain
> > > free.
>
> > Seconded.
>
> Absotively! (Except for praying.)

Thanks, George.

[John Atkinson]

On Dec 8, 9:18 am, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> John Atkinson asked:
George declaimed:
> > > Absotively!
> >
> > A Neil Gaimain reference?
>
> Can't get anything past you, John! :-)

I am afraid that no-one is the same league
as Arny Krueger when it comes to beating
me in the "debating trade," George.:-)

> Uh.... Who's Neil Gaimain?

Author. He had one of his characters in "The
Anansi Boys" use this contraction. Excellent
book, BTW, though "American Gods" is still
the one I think of most when Gaiman's name
is mentioned.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
(and book nerd)

[George M. Middius]

John Atkinson said:

> George declaimed:

Did I sound declamatory to you? I thought a sentence beginning with
"Uh..." would be more of a mutter.

> > > > Absotively!

> > > A Neil Gaimain reference?

> > Can't get anything past you, John! :-)

> I am afraid that no-one is the same league
> as Arny Krueger when it comes to beating
> me in the "debating trade," George.:-)

Indeed, Mr. Krooger is the "master". Nobody else can vanish from a
thread and then claim "victory" a few days -- or even hours --
subsequently.

> > Uh.... Who's Neil Gaimain?

> Author. He had one of his characters in "The
> Anansi Boys" use this contraction.

I heard it fairly recently from the mouth of a 'tweener, although I
recollect its provenance dating at least to the early '80s.

> Excellent book, BTW, though "American Gods" is still
> the one I think of most when Gaiman's name is mentioned.

We shall endeavor to acquaint ourselves with the volume you praise.

> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile
> (and book nerd)

George M. Middius
Scourge of 'Borgs, Usenet
(also language geek)

[George M. Middius]

Witlessmongrel shifts his engine from Reverse into Comatose.

> > Well, that's settled. You're an empty-headed, insincere troll. So much
> > for your desire for "discussions".

> I desire discussion with those capable of discussion.

Bwahahaha! LOL! Hahahahaha!

No biscuit for you, Scooter. ROTFL!

[George M. Middius]

Scottie's fleas are acting up again.

> > Witlessmongrel shifts his engine from Reverse into Comatose.
> >
> >> > Well, that's settled. You're an empty-headed, insincere troll. So much
> >> > for your desire for "discussions".
> >
> >> I desire discussion with those capable of discussion.
> >
> > Bwahahaha! LOL! Hahahahaha!

> Freak-out number 9.2E498999 by George.

Your "numbering" system is bizarre, you humorless dweeb. I'd hate to be
around your house when one of your unfortunate offspring starts laughing
at one of your idiocies. The ****storms you unleash at "freak-outs" of
laughter are a fearsome experience.

[Bill Riel]

In article <0d6b56aa-0c8c-4177-beea-c34305b2adb2
@w28g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
says...

>
> Author. He had one of his characters in "The
> Anansi Boys" use this contraction. Excellent
> book, BTW, though "American Gods" is still
> the one I think of most when Gaiman's name
> is mentioned.

I haven't read everything Gaiman has written, but my favorite so far is
"American Gods". "Anansi Boys" is a good read, and I liked "Neverwhere"
as well. I found "Stardust" a bit weaker though.

--
Bill

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 6:30 pm, Jenn > wrote:

> ScottW > wrote:
> > I can think of 3 regulars there is no point in trying to have polite
> > conversation with.
> > Arny is one that might have some technical knowledge worth
> > enduring the negatives for. The others got nothing.
> > I hope it doesn't take you a year or more to discover
> > this for each.
>
> > ScottW
>
> Everyone seems to be able to have polite conversation with me except
> Arny, at times you, and the President of our college union.

I politely asked dear Scott what he had, as he set himself up to be a
judge above.

Ironically, as it turns out, "he got nothing".

> A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital. I'm on dinner break
> while her folks sit with her. She'll be fine, but it's hard to see her
> in the hospital and all drugged up to stop the pain.

I'm sorry to hear that, Jenn. I had an emergency appendectomy a few
years ago. I was so drugged up I apparently made some phone calls at 3
AM that are still being held over my head. The funny thing was, once
the drugs wore off I couldn't find the phone. It was paddle-shaped and
looked like the device to raise and lower the bed.:-)

I hope she recovers very quickly.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 8, 4:16 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in messagenews:95bdaf51-acd9-4d27-a11e-

> > I politely asked dear Scott what he had, as he set himself up to be a
> > judge above.
>
> Nonsense.

Read what you wrote, dear Scott. You have indeed set yourself up as a
judge. Also, your comment "you got nothing" or its variants attempts
the same thing.

> > Ironically, as it turns out, "he got nothing".
>
> for you.

So, dear Scott, we end up full circle. I've asked you time and again,
dear lad, what you "got" for everybody else. You (I admit) *did* seem
to have great difficulty in grasping the question. You kept replying
as you have above, as it is in relation to me, or George or somebody
else. You replied that "you cannot answer that question" as it is in
relation to RAO generally.

Meaning, "you got nothing".

Dear Scott, I was truly astounded by that. I figured you "got"
something for everybody.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 8, 10:48 am, "ScottW" > wrote:
> "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in messagenews:j4ill3h9e2vl1880m9gfjf06s6qgvkhtrf@4ax .com...
>
>
>
> > Witlessmongrel shifts his engine from Reverse into Comatose.
>
> >> > Well, that's settled. You're an empty-headed, insincere troll. So much
> >> > for your desire for "discussions".
>
> >> I desire discussion with those capable of discussion.
>
> > Bwahahaha! LOL! Hahahahaha!
>
> Freak-out number 9.2E498999 by George.

So who are you trying to bait into 'discussion' here, dear Scott?

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 7, 7:32 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> Do you guys know what your reputation is on other newsgroups?

I've seen lots of evidence of what your reputation is on other
newsgroups.Is mine as bad as yours is?

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 8, 11:15 am, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast .
net> wrote:
> Scottie's fleas are acting up again.
>
> > > Witlessmongrel shifts his engine from Reverse into Comatose.
>
> > >> > Well, that's settled. You're an empty-headed, insincere troll. So much
> > >> > for your desire for "discussions".
>
> > >> I desire discussion with those capable of discussion.
>
> > > Bwahahaha! LOL! Hahahahaha!
> > Freak-out number 9.2E498999 by George.
>
> Your "numbering" system is bizarre, you humorless dweeb. I'd hate to be
> around your house when one of your unfortunate offspring starts laughing
> at one of your idiocies. The ****storms you unleash at "freak-outs" of
> laughter are a fearsome experience.

Was dear Scott being serious or ironic?

Now that I'm being polite to him (in the hopes that we can engage in
serious discussion) I begin to fully appreciate the depths of serious
discussion that he's capable of. Why, in response to one simple
question yesterday, rather than disappearing outright from the thread
as he has in the past, he discussed the question for several posts
before saying that he couldn't answer the question after all.

Give the lad a chance. Stop laughing at him. Let's see how dear Scott
is capable of deep discussions like he was yesterday, and like he
claims to desire. I think we may all be surprised by the results when
he discusses things.

[George M. Middius]

Shhhh! said:

> Give the lad[sic] a chance. Stop laughing at him. Let's see how dear Scott
> is capable of deep discussions like he was yesterday, and like he
> claims to desire. I think we may all be surprised by the results when
> he discusses things.

I would love to see his explanation of the grudge he imagines I'm
holding against Jenn. According to Scottie, I'm one peal of laughter
away from "ripping" Jenn the way I do the Krooborg.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 8, 5:53 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Shhhh! said:
>
> > Give the lad[sic] a chance. Stop laughing at him. Let's see how dear Scott
> > is capable of deep discussions like he was yesterday, and like he
> > claims to desire. I think we may all be surprised by the results when
> > he discusses things.
>
> I would love to see his explanation of the grudge he imagines I'm
> holding against Jenn. According to Scottie, I'm one peal of laughter
> away from "ripping" Jenn the way I do the Krooborg.

Might I humbly suggest a more polite approach? Dear Scott seems to get
horribly offended over rough treatment or coarse language.

Perhaps something along the line of "Scott, dear Scott! I find myself
wondering where your claim that "I'm one peal of laughter away from
"ripping" Jenn the way I do the Krooborg" came from. I am not one who
is known to hold back. If I felt that Jenn was deserving of "ripping"
like GOIA is, history would show that I would do it without
hesitation."

"So, my old friend, I feel I must politely inquire as to where this
claim of yours came from, and what you base it on. And while you are
at it, perhaps you could address the question that Shhhh! asked you:
What you "got" for RAO?"

As you can see, it appears that in these cases the *message* is not
all that important. It's how that message is delivered that is
paramount. A message that is delivered with any hint of impoliteness
or coarse language is actually not a meassge. Dear Scott's mommy told
him so. And you can't argue against someone's mommy. It's un-American.

I do not mean to make it appear that I criticize you, George, but I
also wonder if perhaps your "freak-outs" of laughter are not
counterproductive as well. I truly know how hard it can be to control
involuntary belly-laughs, but they may indeed hinder attempts at
serious discussion if they should by accident upset someone's delicate
sensibilities.

[Jenn]

In article
>,
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote:

> On Dec 7, 6:30 pm, Jenn > wrote:
>
> > ScottW > wrote:
> > > I can think of 3 regulars there is no point in trying to have polite
> > > conversation with.
> > > Arny is one that might have some technical knowledge worth
> > > enduring the negatives for. The others got nothing.
> > > I hope it doesn't take you a year or more to discover
> > > this for each.
> >
> > > ScottW
> >
> > Everyone seems to be able to have polite conversation with me except
> > Arny, at times you, and the President of our college union.
>
> I politely asked dear Scott what he had, as he set himself up to be a
> judge above.
>
> Ironically, as it turns out, "he got nothing".
>
> > A bad day here. My partner is in the hospital. I'm on dinner break
> > while her folks sit with her. She'll be fine, but it's hard to see her
> > in the hospital and all drugged up to stop the pain.
>
> I'm sorry to hear that, Jenn. I had an emergency appendectomy a few
> years ago. I was so drugged up I apparently made some phone calls at 3
> AM that are still being held over my head. The funny thing was, once
> the drugs wore off I couldn't find the phone. It was paddle-shaped and
> looked like the device to raise and lower the bed.:-)

lol

>
> I hope she recovers very quickly.

Thanks. Looks like it's going to be about 4 days until she can have
surgery. Ugh.

[George M. Middius]

Oh, Scottie! Yoo-hoo, Mr. Moron! Over here!

> I'm referrring

Stop yapping at Shushie. I'm still waiting to have a "discussion" about
the accusation you made about me before:

> But in truth George only refrains from ripping you
> as long as you engage in the anti-Arny games and you let him
> be king cat of the kitty litter....but you know that.

What do you imagine my problem with Jenn is? And why would I restrain
myself from unloading on her when I've never, ever held back with
anybody else in all my years playing on RAO?

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 9, 10:43 am, "ScottW" > wrote:
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in ...
>
> > On Dec 8, 4:16 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> messagenews:95bdaf51-acd9-4d27-a11e-
>
> >> > I politely asked dear Scott what he had, as he set himself up to be a
> >> > judge above.
>
> >> Nonsense.
>
> > Read what you wrote, dear Scott.
>
> I'm referrring to your sentence above.

Dear Scott, forgetting what you've written seems to be a consistent
problem. Here. let me help you recall:

> ScottW > wrote:
> > I can think of 3 regulars there is no point in trying to have polite
> > conversation with.
> > Arny is one that might have some technical knowledge worth
> > enduring the negatives for. The others got nothing.

So you've set yourself up as ROA's judge. Isn't it fair to ask this
judge what they "got"?

> > I hope it doesn't take you a year or more to discover
> > this for each.

Likewise, I do sincerely hope that it doesn't take you a full year or
more to understand the question I ask of you. But I'll be polite until
you do!

> > You have indeed set yourself up as a
> > judge. Also, your comment "you got nothing" or its variants attempts
> > the same thing.

See?

> >> > Ironically, as it turns out, "he got nothing".
>
> >> for you.
>
> > So, dear Scott, we end up full circle. I've asked you time and again,
> > dear lad, what you "got" for everybody else. You (I admit) *did* seem
> > to have great difficulty in grasping the question.
>
> They get what they got. In the case of you, George, and a few others.

And as always, you place your value is in relation to me or George or
someone else.

But what, IYO, have *you* "got"?

> I'm sure you get very little if anything at all.
> You seem to have difficutly grasping that.

Scott, dear Scott! We seem to have a disagreement on who has
difficulty grasping things. At least I tend to recall things that I've
said. I suppose the best thing is to let RAO decide for themselves. ;-)

[George M. Middius]

The Idiot peeks out from behind his toilet tank.

> > Oh, Scottie! Yoo-hoo, Mr. Moron! Over here!

Damn, you're a deep sleeper. Next time I'll crank up the air-raid siren.

> > Stop yapping at Shushie. I'm still waiting to have a "discussion" about
> > the accusation you made about me before:

> >> But in truth George only refrains from ripping you
> >> as long as you engage in the anti-Arny games and you let him
> >> be king cat of the kitty litter....but you know that.

> > What do you imagine my problem with Jenn is? And why would I restrain
> > myself from unloading on her when I've never, ever held back with
> > anybody else in all my years playing on RAO?

> Obviously, I disagree.

No you don't. You're too damned stupid to know what you said, and now
you're making a weak attempt to cover your ass.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 9, 11:48 am, "ScottW" > wrote:
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in ...

> > On Dec 9, 10:43 am, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> ...
>
> >> > On Dec 8, 4:16 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:95bdaf51-acd9-4d27-a11e-
>
> >> >> > I politely asked dear Scott what he had, as he set himself up to be a
> >> >> > judge above.
>
> >> >> Nonsense.
>
> >> > Read what you wrote, dear Scott.
>
> >> I'm referrring to your sentence above.
>
> > Dear Scott, forgetting what you've written seems to be a consistent
> > problem. Here. let me help you recall:
>
> >> ScottW > wrote:
> >> > I can think of 3 regulars there is no point in trying to have polite
> >> > conversation with.
> >> > Arny is one that might have some technical knowledge worth
> >> > enduring the negatives for. The others got nothing.
>
> > So you've set yourself up as ROA's judge.
>
> As does everyone who expresses an opinion.

Thank you for finally admitting I was correct. That only took, what?
10 posts?

I don't see anybody else expressing the judgements that you've passed,
except perhaps in regards to GOIA.

> > Isn't it fair to ask this
> > judge what they "got"?
>
> No..it's silly.

Hm. So asking someone who holds an opinion of, say, "I think Krell
amps are great" why they think that way is silly.

Filed for future use.

> >> > I hope it doesn't take you a year or more to discover
> >> > this for each.
>
> > Likewise, I do sincerely hope that it doesn't take you a full year or
> > more to understand the question I ask of you. But I'll be polite until
> > you do!
>
> One can only hope.

Thank you for admitting that it will likely take you a year or longer
to understand the question. That only took 10 posts too.

> >> > You have indeed set yourself up as a
> >> > judge. Also, your comment "you got nothing" or its variants attempts
> >> > the same thing.
>
> > See?
>
> >> >> > Ironically, as it turns out, "he got nothing".
>
> >> >> for you.
>
> >> > So, dear Scott, we end up full circle. I've asked you time and again,
> >> > dear lad, what you "got" for everybody else. You (I admit) *did* seem
> >> > to have great difficulty in grasping the question.
>
> >> They get what they got. In the case of you, George, and a few others.
>
> > And as always, you place your value is in relation to me or George or
> > someone else.
>
> > But what, IYO, have *you* "got"?

Still no answer.

> >> I'm sure you get very little if anything at all.
> >> You seem to have difficutly grasping that.
>
> > Scott, dear Scott! We seem to have a disagreement on who has
> > difficulty grasping things.
>
> What a surprise.

I know. LOL!

But, as I said, I'll be polite until you get it.

I think I'll amend my statement based on your admission that you don't
think you will understand for at least a year: in terms of this topic
only. I'm already getting frustrated with your evasions and
disingenuous comments.

> > At least I tend to recall things that I've
> > said. I suppose the best thing is to let RAO decide for themselves. ;-)
>
> I'm sure you expect that minute sample to have meaning.

No, I think most already know the answer based on a far larger
sample.;-)

[George M. Middius]

Witless has another rough day of huffing something noxious.

> > The Idiot peeks out from behind his toilet tank.
> >
> >> > Oh, Scottie! Yoo-hoo, Mr. Moron! Over here!
> >
> > Damn, you're a deep sleeper. Next time I'll crank up the air-raid siren.
> >
> >> > Stop yapping at Shushie. I'm still waiting to have a "discussion" about
> >> > the accusation you made about me before:
> >
> >> >> But in truth George only refrains from ripping you
> >> >> as long as you engage in the anti-Arny games and you let him
> >> >> be king cat of the kitty litter....but you know that.
> >
> >> > What do you imagine my problem with Jenn is? And why would I restrain
> >> > myself from unloading on her when I've never, ever held back with
> >> > anybody else in all my years playing on RAO?
> >
> >> Obviously, I disagree.
> >
> > No you don't. You're too damned stupid to know what you said, and now
> > you're making a weak attempt to cover your ass.
>
> You would want my ass exposed. Sorry I can't oblige you.
> Not my fault AK consumes you.

Dear Greatly Stupid One:

You said this to Jenn:

> >> >> But in truth George only refrains from ripping you

Do you remember who Jenn is?

Happy landings in the pool, peabrain. If we're lucky, you sent the
lifeguard home early so you'll drown alone.

[George M. Middius]

I suspect a disastrous drop in Scottie's meager remaining IQ.

> > Do you remember who Jenn is?

> Your AK infatuation is endless.

Your needle is stuck in your groove, Scooter. Time to push the Reset
button.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 9, 6:28 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Witless has another rough day of huffing something noxious.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > The Idiot peeks out from behind his toilet tank.
>
> > >> > Oh, Scottie! Yoo-hoo, Mr. Moron! Over here!
>
> > > Damn, you're a deep sleeper. Next time I'll crank up the air-raid siren.
>
> > >> > Stop yapping at Shushie. I'm still waiting to have a "discussion" about
> > >> > the accusation you made about me before:
>
> > >> >> But in truth George only refrains from ripping you
> > >> >> as long as you engage in the anti-Arny games and you let him
> > >> >> be king cat of the kitty litter....but you know that.
>
> > >> > What do you imagine my problem with Jenn is? And why would I restrain
> > >> > myself from unloading on her when I've never, ever held back with
> > >> > anybody else in all my years playing on RAO?
>
> > >> Obviously, I disagree.
>
> > > No you don't. You're too damned stupid to know what you said, and now
> > > you're making a weak attempt to cover your ass.
>
> > You would want my ass exposed. Sorry I can't oblige you.
> > Not my fault AK consumes you.
>
> Dear Greatly Stupid One:
>
> You said this to Jenn:
>
> > >> >> But in truth George only refrains from ripping you
>
> Do you remember who Jenn is?
>
> Happy landings in the pool, peabrain. If we're lucky, you sent the
> lifeguard home early so you'll drown alone.

Um, George, this may be a nit, but you're making a big assumption
here. You're assuming that everybody is smart enough to look into the
pool before diving off to insure that there's water in it.

I think you would. I know I would. However...;-)

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 9, 6:23 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 9, 11:48 am, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> ...
>
> >> > On Dec 9, 10:43 am, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> >> ...
>
> >> >> > On Dec 8, 4:16 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> >> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> >> >> messagenews:95bdaf51-acd9-4d27-a11e-
>
> >> >> >> > I politely asked dear Scott what he had, as he set himself up to be a
> >> >> >> > judge above.
>
> >> >> >> Nonsense.
>
> >> >> > Read what you wrote, dear Scott.
>
> >> >> I'm referrring to your sentence above.
>
> >> > Dear Scott, forgetting what you've written seems to be a consistent
> >> > problem. Here. let me help you recall:
>
> >> >> ScottW > wrote:
> >> >> > I can think of 3 regulars there is no point in trying to have polite
> >> >> > conversation with.
> >> >> > Arny is one that might have some technical knowledge worth
> >> >> > enduring the negatives for. The others got nothing.
>
> >> > So you've set yourself up as ROA's judge.
>
> >> As does everyone who expresses an opinion.
>
> > Thank you for finally admitting I was correct.
>
> Are you that desperate for affirmation?

What wild conclusions you draw, dear Scott!

> > That only took, what?
> > 10 posts?
>
> > I don't see anybody else expressing the judgements that you've passed,
> > except perhaps in regards to GOIA.
>
> >> > Isn't it fair to ask this
> >> > judge what they "got"?
>
> >> No..it's silly.
>
> > Hm. So asking someone who holds an opinion of, say, "I think Krell
> > amps are great" why they think that way is silly.
>
> Was that your question? No ...I don't think that was it at all.
> Just more playing.

Ah, trying to be polite is sometimes such a struggle when dealing with
an imbe... No, not yet. I'll try one more time.

The question has not changed, dear Scott, although my attitude is.
It's no fun being polite, as that doesn't seem to sharpen the blade of
an obtuse knife any more than ridicule does. Ridicule is much more fun
though. One last attempt:

You set yourself up as a judge, as you finally admitted above. You
stated that some posters here "got nothing". This strongly implies
that the person stating this (you) "got something" these other posters
do not. So far, you have not been willing to state what it is you
"got".

We can infer a couple of things here: that you're unwillingness to
state what it is you "got" means that you really "got nothing", and
that, therefore, your previous statement was inaccurate as the person
making that statement needs to add themselves to the the total of
those that "got nothing".

You feel you "got" something. That something is not as compared to
poster A or poster B: it is intrinsic to you. So what is it you "got"?

BTW, if it's "politeness" we can all see what affect that makes on
advancing 'discussions': nada. Therefore, if you choose to deke and
dodge again, my reverting to being less-than-polite will be on your
shoulders and you can stop whining about it.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 9, 8:16 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in ...
>
> > On Dec 9, 6:23 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> ...
>
> > You set yourself up as a judge, as you finally admitted above.
>
> Not really, is executioner available?

Why would you wish someone dead, 2pid? You accuse others of taking RAO
too seriously and "not having a life", yet you're the only one I can
recall wishing a poster here dead.

> > You
> > stated that some posters here "got nothing".
>
> That would be you.

LOL! Fine, 2pid. I "got nothing". What you "got"? LOL!

> > This strongly implies
> > that the person stating this (you) "got something" these other posters
> > do not.
>
> Yup.

But it's a secret. LOL!

> > So far, you have not been willing to state what it is you
> > "got".
>
> Nothing for you.
>
> Feeling left out?

I think you're just mad because you didn't understand what I was
saying re: immigration, among other things.

LOL!

[Clyde Slick]

On Dec 9, 4:17 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
\
> Not my fault AK consumes you.
> If you don't like it, seek professional help.
>



Good advice!!!
I will place an ad for a Detroit city bus driver

[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> I will place an ad for a Detroit city bus driver

Are you at all worried that poor Scottie has lost his last few marbles?

[Clyde Slick]

On Dec 9, 9:00 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Clyde Slick said:
>
> > I will place an ad for a Detroit city bus driver
>
> Are you at all worried that poor Scottie has lost his last few marbles?

we never plahyed marbles when I visited his house.
all i can vouch for was that last time i was there,
he had all sixteen poolballs.,

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 9, 11:16 pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On Dec 9, 9:00 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
> wrote:
>
> > Clyde Slick said:
>
> > > I will place an ad for a Detroit city bus driver
>
> > Are you at all worried that poor Scottie has lost his last few marbles?
>
> we never plahyed marbles when I visited his house.
> all i can vouch for was that last time i was there,
> he had all sixteen poolballs.,

Were they the size of marbles?

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 9, 8:53 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in ...
>
> > On Dec 9, 8:16 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> ...
>
> >> > On Dec 9, 6:23 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> >> ...
>
> >> > You set yourself up as a judge, as you finally admitted above.
>
> >> Not really, is executioner available?
>
> > Why would you wish someone dead, 2pid?
>
> I need a new costume for halloween.

Go au natural. That'll scare the **** out of even the most hardy. And
you may get your ass licked!

> > You accuse others of taking RAO
> > too seriously and "not having a life", yet you're the only one I can
> > recall wishing a poster here dead.
>
> Did I say that? No.

Why didn't you select "jury" then? There must certainly be at least 12
voices in your 'mind'.

> First you think Bush is god of all republicans
> and now this. Get a grip.

I'd like to see where I said that.

Thank you.

> >> > You
> >> > stated that some posters here "got nothing".
>
> >> That would be you.
>
> > LOL! Fine, 2pid. I "got nothing". What you "got"? LOL!
>
> Poor grasshopper...still nothing for you.

Nor anybody else, but who's counting?

And I was polite and everything. Scott, dear Scott! I still am not
asking for me. LOL!

> >> > This strongly implies
> >> > that the person stating this (you) "got something" these other posters
> >> > do not.
>
> >> Yup.
>
> > But it's a secret. LOL!
>
> You have to determine it yourself.

I have. I believe most on RAO have: nada.

Yet you count yourself among those that have something to offer, yet
you offer nothing. What a paradox! LOL!

> I suppose you sit there with every post and debate internally,
> "Does this have any value to others?

No, but we've determined that I have nothing to offer.

We're looking at what you have to offer, and not as opposed to those
of us who have nothing. Here's a hint, 2pid: nothing minus nothing
equals nothing. Nothing plus nothing equals nothing. "Ya" "got"
anything to change that formula besides platitudes?

(You've already answered this. I was just being polite in asking.)

> They may already know this or they may know that it's what
> I'm going to say as I often repeat myself ?"

That would be a good place to start your inward journey. And it's not
too late!

> Maybe you should...but the point is this.
> Value is subjective. If you provide me any, I'll let you know.

Will you please let us know if you provide any to anybody?

Thank you.

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message

> "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
> wrote in message
> ...

Scottie wrote:

>>> Your AK infatuation is endless.

>> Your needle is stuck in your groove, Scooter. Time to
>> push the Reset button.

> You can't even get a vinyl analogy right. In the groove
> is a good thing.

But stuck in a groove is not, and that is an apt description of the
Middiot's current plight.

The Middiot demonstrates new lows in lack of self-awareness...

The Middiot is obviously suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Dec 10, 7:02 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> Scottie wrote:
> >>> Your AK infatuation is endless.
> >> Your needle is stuck in your groove, Scooter. Time to
> >> push the Reset button.
> > You can't even get a vinyl analogy right. In the groove
> > is a good thing.

2pid takes it as a compliment. This shows new lows in stupidity for
2pid.

> But stuck in a groove is not, and that is an apt description of the
> Middiot's current plight.

GOIA tries to direct 2pid to an IKYABWAI.

You should thank GOIA, 2pid. He's trying to help you. And you're
normally so goo at IKYABWAIs.

> The Middiot demonstrates new lows in lack of self-awareness...

LOL!

> The Middiot is obviously suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome.

More LOL!

Is this where we all look dumb, GOIA? LOL!