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What happened to perpetual technologies?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 16th 03, 06:46 PM
andy
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Default What happened to perpetual technologies?

I cannot locate their web site, I am just re-directed to the av123
site which sells the units.
Are they out of business? What about the room correction SW which P1A
users are waiting for?

What about active lodspeaker-toom correction? It is all silent and no
appearent interest in the audio communicty, which seems to continue to
tweak the system using cables while missing the big point )the room)

Thanks

marco stanzani
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  #5  
Old November 19th 03, 06:17 AM
Rusty Boudreaux
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Default What happened to perpetual technologies?

"normanstrong" > wrote in message
news:Gbtub.181649$ao4.610833@attbi_s51...
> That's a strange name for an audio company. Was it supposed to

be
> "perceptual"?


Nope, it was Perpetual. Run by a guy Mark Shifter (sp?) who
harks back to Audio Alchemy. Snake oil is probably a tad harsh
for AA...but there was some debates about their claims and
products (DAC-in-a-box for one).

Perpetual Technologies/AV123 on the other hand is supposed to
have some good stuff. Their Rocket line of speakers enjoys a
large internet following and review very well. They also have a
high end reference series and some smaller HTiB systems.
Designed here in the states and manufactured in China they are
supposed to be very high quality for the buck. A "perpetual"
comment is the Rockets hold their own both cosmetically and
performance wise with speakers several times their price. The
crossovers (patent pending) and drivers were designed by none
other than Dick Pierce who is without reproach. As his client it
appears Mark actually listening to what Dick said and got a good
product as a result.

  #7  
Old November 21st 03, 08:09 AM
Rusty Boudreaux
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Default What happened to perpetual technologies?

"Mkuller" > wrote in message
news:58Pub.246217$HS4.2182771@attbi_s01...
> Snake oil is more than a "tad" harsh to call AA. Mark owned

the company and
> had a very talented designer in the days when digital was

evolving. They
> produced excellent products at great prices and their DTI

jitter buster was a
> breakthrough product that is still in use today by people using

separates.

That may be true but I still think they weren't totally honest
with some of their products. There should be no need for jitter
correction in CD audio as has been pointed out by Dick Pierce and
others that CD's can't have jitter. If a jitter buster helps
then something is wrong with the CD player.

Another example is a quote by Tom Nousaine in this newsgroup a
few weeks ago:

"I'm guessing that my experience with an Audio Alchemy outboard
DAC might be
illustrative. Using that device for a level matched test I
discovered that the
output of the AA was +10 dB compared to the analog output of a
Marantz CD-63
player.

Inside the case there was a jumper with 0 dB and +10 dB settings.
Moving the
jumper to the 0 dB position and, guess what, the output was still
+4 dB. So to
an end-user the device always delivered a higher output level.

I'm guessing that this kind of level de-match accounts for
practically all, if
not exactly all, of the reported cd-player sound differences."

  #8  
Old November 21st 03, 05:19 PM
Harry Lavo
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Default What happened to perpetual technologies?

"Rusty Boudreaux" > wrote in message
...
> "Mkuller" > wrote in message
> news:58Pub.246217$HS4.2182771@attbi_s01...
> > Snake oil is more than a "tad" harsh to call AA. Mark owned

> the company and
> > had a very talented designer in the days when digital was

> evolving. They
> > produced excellent products at great prices and their DTI

> jitter buster was a
> > breakthrough product that is still in use today by people using

> separates.
>
> That may be true but I still think they weren't totally honest
> with some of their products. There should be no need for jitter
> correction in CD audio as has been pointed out by Dick Pierce and
> others that CD's can't have jitter. If a jitter buster helps
> then something is wrong with the CD player.
>
> Another example is a quote by Tom Nousaine in this newsgroup a
> few weeks ago:
>
> "I'm guessing that my experience with an Audio Alchemy outboard
> DAC might be
> illustrative. Using that device for a level matched test I
> discovered that the
> output of the AA was +10 dB compared to the analog output of a
> Marantz CD-63
> player.
>
> Inside the case there was a jumper with 0 dB and +10 dB settings.
> Moving the
> jumper to the 0 dB position and, guess what, the output was still
> +4 dB. So to
> an end-user the device always delivered a higher output level.
>
> I'm guessing that this kind of level de-match accounts for
> practically all, if
> not exactly all, of the reported cd-player sound differences."
>


Well, if this is your belief as well as Tom's guess, then perhaps this will
persuade you otherwise.

I use an AA DTI Pro jitter buster. Had it wired into a Proceed PDP using
balanced cable and then into Aux two on my preamp next to Aux one, direct
feed from the cd player. Identical cables used. The outputs were matched
within .5db on all three cd players I used over the decade with this
arrangement in my system.

Compared to my Phillips 880, the sound was the same but more transparent (it
should be since the PDP was 18 bit and the DTI Pro featured noise-shaping
specifically designed for 18-bit making it sound like 20-bit, while the 880
was designed at a time when 16 bit multibit DACs were not particularly
linear below -80db).

Compared to my Marantz 63SE (one-bit pcm), the sound was slightly more
neutral (the Marantz a tad "lean") and more natural sounding and about the
same in perceived transparency.

Compared to my Sony C222ES, the sound was very similar but had a slightly
more dynamic, warmer, and more natural sounding bass, and about the same
transparency.

On a casual level they can all "sound the same". In fine detail, they all
have subtle differences. So if the AA DAC had higher output and people did
not level adjust, then that may explain some specific results with that DAC.
But it is a big leap from there to saying that all DACs were liked better
because they had higher output. There were other things at work, especially
in the early days when outboard DACs first became popular...different DAC
chips, better power supplies, better analog outputs, etc.

  #9  
Old November 22nd 03, 06:45 PM
andy
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Default What happened to perpetual technologies?

>
> OK, some of us knew that. OTOH, answers to the other questions would
> be more interesting and useful.
>
> Kal

Thanks Kal

did somebody experienced the DeQX devices? Is SigTech still opearting
with new prodocts (I still see Copyright 1996-2000 Cambridge Signal
Technologies on their URL) Is TacT available with some more affordable
products?
Is Perp. tech providing the room correction services )this was their
claim in Y2K but nothing happened so far (and AFAIK)

Overall the BOM cost of digital correction systems is VERY low, so we
are going to pay for the IP (which is OK). Still I feel very promising
for the medium- to low-end system the technologt fallout in the near
future. Still it does not seem to happen so near ..

Thanks
  #10  
Old November 22nd 03, 08:31 PM
Andre Yew
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Default What happened to perpetual technologies?

"Harry Lavo" > wrote in message news:<YVqvb.264201$HS4.2355064@attbi_s01>...
> I use an AA DTI Pro jitter buster. Had it wired into a Proceed PDP using
> balanced cable and then into Aux two on my preamp next to Aux one, direct
> feed from the cd player. Identical cables used. The outputs were matched
> within .5db on all three cd players I used over the decade with this
> arrangement in my system.


Harry,

You've got to match to within 0.1 dB, or less than 1 percent
difference between voltage levels, in order to rule out effects due to
level differences. In your test, level differences can still be a
factor in what you heard. I'm not saying they were for sure, but
there is uncertainty to whether your experiment tested only jitter
differences or jitter differences combined with level differences.

--Andre

 




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