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#1
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Compressor Settings Guidelines Requested
I'm wondering if some of you could get me a guideline on how to set
attack and release times on a compressor to get the best sounds out of different instruments when recording. I know I could experiment to get this information, but I figure it's faster to stand on the shoulders of giants. What are the best ways to configure these compression settings for the following instruments? Bass Guitar Drum Kit Vocals Piano Or perhaps someone could give me a more general rule like a fast attack is better for sustaining instruments but not for percussive instruments unless you want more sustain out of them...... Etc....yada...yada... |
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#2
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which compressor are you using? you say "when recording"... does that
mean an analog compressor on the input before the conversion to digital? better compressors allow you to dial in stronger compression before it sounds bad. in any event, it is context dependant. try "medium" settings and work from there. put the attack and release controls on medium. then what you do is lower the threshold and raise the ratio a bit at at a time until you see the compression lights go on. as a basic idea, 25% of the notes should not light up any of the compression lights, 50% should light up 1-3 lights, and the strongest 25% of the notes should light up 4-6 gain reduction lights on the compressor. that's a good basic way to get started. once you have that happening, take a look at the gain-makeup control. keep increasing that control until the signal going into your digital recorder comes in just under clipping (0 db digital full scale). the idea is to get a hot signal into the converters for better resolution. some people will dispute this. don't listen to them. so what you do is have the drummer or whatever hit the loudest signal you anticipate in the recording, and make sure it doesn't clip the converter. make sure the person demoing the sound doesn't wimp out during this. make them play as loud as they actually will on the recording. you can get into all sorts of nitty-gritty stuff, but that's the basics to get you going. |
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#3
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Ludwig,
I'm certainly not a compression expert, but the best suggestion I could do to you, would be to read this article written by Mike Rivers (one of the most regular and really helpful contributors of this newsgroup): http://www.manleylabs.com/techpage/c...s_exposed.html I guess after reading this you'll understand there's no best way and best settings to use compression on each kind of instrument or sound sources. Too much parameters! Your ears certainly tell you if your settings are good on this instrument, with this player, this kind of microphone, this kind of mic pres, in this room... Don't trust presets preachers... (only my opinion) Regards, Laurent. |
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#4
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On 23 Jul 2005 11:38:35 -0700, "Ludwig77"
wrote: I'm wondering if some of you could get me a guideline on how to set attack and release times on a compressor to get the best sounds out of different instruments when recording. Compressors have many ways they can be used. With 4 variables, attack, release, threshold and ratio, many different effects can be gotten for just as many purposes and reasons. Specifically if you are asking about attack and release, I can add some of my opinions. Obviously for a peak limiter, too slow and attack and the device is useless. However for many uses I tend to prefer slower attacks rather than fast. For example on electric bass, it is sometimes useful to use a slow attack to let all transients and string sound, etc get through un-attenuated but with a fast release so the bass notes don't sustain forever. This can help get a nice tight bass sound. For some purposes it is helpful to use a slow release too. I've seen mastering engineers use a very slow attack like 1/4 seconds and even a slower release like 2 seconds. That's about the most extreme setting I have ever used. For most uses you'll do best to start with moderate settings for attack and release and experiment from there. With different compressors different settings are possible and can sound quite a bit different. Julian |
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#5
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 21:37:29 +0200, "lm"
wrote: read this article written by Mike Rivers (one of the most regular and really helpful contributors of this newsgroup): http://www.manleylabs.com/techpage/c...s_exposed.html Nice picture of you in the shower Mike :-) Are you connected to Manley? Julian |
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#6
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#7
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once you have that happening, take a look at the gain-makeup control.
keep increasing that control until the signal going into your digital recorder comes in just under clipping (0 db digital full scale). the idea is to get a hot signal into the converters for better resolution. some people will dispute this. don't listen to them. so what you do is have the drummer or whatever hit the loudest signal you anticipate in the recording, and make sure it doesn't clip the converter. make sure the person demoing the sound doesn't wimp out during this. make them play as loud as they actually will on the recording. I respectfully disagree with this, even tho he's right, you want as much signal as you're comfortable with. Problem is, when you record hot, you're always risking digital overs (distortion), which can ruin the take. Much better to leave some headroom, just to anticipate for the unexpected. The same post recommends 25% of a recording should be compressed 4-6db of gain reduction. It's one thing to look for peaks to get 4-6 db reduction in a mix, but if you make this a rule while recording, you're likely going to end up with a bunch of overly compressed tracks. I would look for some light compression while tracking some vocalists or instrumentalists if you think it's important, but leave the heavy stuff for the mix. |
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#8
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once you have that happening, take a look at the gain-makeup control.
keep increasing that control until the signal going into your digital recorder comes in just under clipping (0 db digital full scale). the idea is to get a hot signal into the converters for better resolution. some people will dispute this. don't listen to them. so what you do This isn't 1975 any more. We don't have to worry about that stuff any longer. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#9
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#10
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I'm simply looking for guidelines on attack and release times, not
thresholds and ratios. I figure there are guidelines for different instruments. Or at least there are guidelines for the effect desired. For instance, if I want to add the illusion of sustain to an instrument, I would guess that you would want to set up a long release time. I'm not sure if attack speed would play into this. If you wanted to control dynamics to create a hotter signal without giving the illusion of increased sustain, I would imagine a slower attack (especially on percussive instruments where you want to let the transient through). I'm not sure on release time.... |
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#11
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Ludwig77 wrote:
I'm simply looking for guidelines on attack and release times, not thresholds and ratios. I figure there are guidelines for different instruments. Adjust the attack until the top end sounds right to you. Adjust the decay until the reverb tail on the note sounds right to you. Stop worrying. Spend an afternoon with a compressor and some raw tracks and get a sense of what it does. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#12
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well first of all, this is a rather loaded question... because there are way
too many variables. Any knowledgeable audio engineer can tell you that... it depends on so many factors that it can't be summed up in a simple answer. first of all what kind of compressor? (vca, opto, vari- mu, discrete) each kind of compressor responds differently according to how you set it... and some compressors are better on different sound sources... like I happen to like opto and vari-mu compression on drums because of the way they preserve transients better but hate most vca compressors on drums because they make drums sound more plastic and dead. However I don't really mind some vca compressors on vocals. that being said. I think it is more appropriate to give some principals of use. if you are just trying to keep things more level then you can set the attack times fairly fast and release times slower...however that pretty much anihilates all transients and gives very little impact and punch to the sound. the threshold setting is equally important as attack and release times...basically set this so that the compressor kicks in only when you want it to...and generally stick to low ratios say like 1:2 or 1:4.... So if you are trying to preserve transients and articulations then you have to set both the threshold and the attack time so that it lets part of the transient sound through but doesn't spike on the remaining part of the sound. you also want the decay to sound natural enough too... my guidline is that if I can hear the compressor pumping and breathing then it is set wrong. As far as I am concerned just enough to do it's job but not enough to anounce that it is working... let it be like a waitor in a high class restaurant... takes care of things and never gets in your way. it really also depends on the instrument also.. drums are tricky, you really have to listen to the attack of the drum to make sure you aren't taking too much percussiveness out of the drum... so a slower attack and fairly fast release. and threshold so that it compresses only the loudest part of the sound. you just want it to work on the decay of the drum rather than the attack. the compression slope has a lot to do with this and this is different for each different compressor. for bass use a quicker attack and longer release for sustain. vacals you can usually set set an even quicker attack and a long release but that really depends on the style of the vocals. you must above all use your ears!... one of my biggest pet peves of audio engineering is too much compression... once you compress a track to your recorder it can't be undone! so use compression sparingly. in general hotter levels are forgiven better by analog tape than digital... however you need to optomize your levels for digital... in other words record it hot enough to avoid clipping but not too much so you can avoid the ungraceful nature of clipping in digital. recording too low of a level will add noise in the final product due to the need to boost the level on that track... to put it simply, if you clip in digital it sounds bad... and within reason, if you clip to analog tape it just adds grit and warmth... my advice is just use enough compression to fatten and keep levels in their place but don't use too much... it is like adding salt or pepper... just enough to enhance the flavor but not enough to over power the food. most often compression is merely a tool to enhance. let it enhance. be conservative. it is better to use too little than too much. |
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#13
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#14
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I replied to a different message but here is the answer the original
question. Here is simple rule of tasteful compression use: use enough compression to enhance but not enough to hear it's artifacts. bass needs slower attack to make it more punchy and faster attack for more smoothness... depends on your requirement. the release time is generally longer. guitar.. well if it is guitar with distortion then generally don't use a compressor on it... it is already compressed. clean guitar use a slower attack to preserve the pick attack and shorter release so it gets out of the way faster. drums: for toms and bass drum use a slower attack and higher threshold. and quick releases... be very sparing on compressors on the overhead mics... and don't compress other cymbals. snare drum be careful. set a slower attack and higher threshold and faster release times... it is easy to destroy a snare sound with compression... I hear it all the time on the radio... vocals: use quicker attack and longer release times. vocals can stand to be squashed to take out all the spikes and plosive sounds. piano: slower attack to preserve the articulation and medium release time to sustain longer. short attack times cut off more of the initial sound and longer attack times preserve more of the transient and articulation... if you have a sound source that is percussive in nature or dependant on it's articulations to define it's character then use a slower attack time... if you have a sound source that needs to be smoothed out and or have spikes taken out then faster attack times are recomended. release time is dependant on the length of the actual sound... a sound source that can sustain it's sound( like bowed stringed instruments or voice or some synth patches) can use a longer release time whereas a sound source that doesn't sustain (like drums, piano or other percussion) should have shorter release times... the release time should align more with the actual release time of the sound source. hope that helps Kristian Svennevig Producer/ Engineer Mobius Productions/ Evolution Recording Studios in article , Ludwig77 at wrote on 7/23/05 13:38: I'm wondering if some of you could get me a guideline on how to set attack and release times on a compressor to get the best sounds out of different instruments when recording. I know I could experiment to get this information, but I figure it's faster to stand on the shoulders of giants. What are the best ways to configure these compression settings for the following instruments? Bass Guitar Drum Kit Vocals Piano Or perhaps someone could give me a more general rule like a fast attack is better for sustaining instruments but not for percussive instruments unless you want more sustain out of them...... Etc....yada...yada... |
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