Hi

For recording an acoustic guitar and vocals, what would be the pros and cons
of using each method above?
Does the sound quality actually differ when using your soundcard to capture
the sound rather than a standalone recorder?
In terms of setup, can you do everything you would want with a pc and
software like a standalone recorder?

Thanks and regards
Mike

Considerably

Bob

"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message
...
Hi

For recording an acoustic guitar and vocals, what would be the pros and
cons
of using each method above?
Does the sound quality actually differ when using your soundcard to
capture
the sound rather than a standalone recorder?
In terms of setup, can you do everything you would want with a pc and
software like a standalone recorder?

Thanks and regards
Mike

I have recorded quite extensively on my PC with steinbergs Cubase
VST/32 and some cheap dynamic mics through a Behringher 4 channel mixer
into a soundblaster Live! pci card just using a RCA to stereo mini
adaptor on the Line-In on the sound card. the sound quality isn't the
greatest, but you can do so much more with the mixing on a comp.
the major downside is that you can only record 2 tracks at once, so you
gotta mix down to 2 is you wanna do anything "live" with a full
band...so in essence, the PC is the way to go in my opinion if you're a
"solo artist" but with a full band, you gotta get a better interfacing
card with more inputs, or a standalone multitracker!
Peace

You upload the files from the recorder to the computer to edit them, that is
the same in either case. Most low end multitrackers can only record two
tracks at a time.

Bob

"Luke" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have recorded quite extensively on my PC with steinbergs Cubase
VST/32 and some cheap dynamic mics through a Behringher 4 channel mixer
into a soundblaster Live! pci card just using a RCA to stereo mini
adaptor on the Line-In on the sound card. the sound quality isn't the
greatest, but you can do so much more with the mixing on a comp.
the major downside is that you can only record 2 tracks at once, so you
gotta mix down to 2 is you wanna do anything "live" with a full
band...so in essence, the PC is the way to go in my opinion if you're a
"solo artist" but with a full band, you gotta get a better interfacing
card with more inputs, or a standalone multitracker!
Peace

Agreed. How many choices and options you have depends almost entirely
on how much dough you wanna drop. It sucks being a poor college student
musician.

It pretty much sucks when you do not have the money for quality recording
equipment or musical instruments. Whatever you occupation is.

Bob

"Luke" wrote in message
ups.com...
Agreed. How many choices and options you have depends almost entirely
on how much dough you wanna drop. It sucks being a poor college student
musician.

"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message
...
Hi

For recording an acoustic guitar and vocals, what would be the pros and
cons of using each method above?
Does the sound quality actually differ when using your soundcard to
capture the sound rather than a standalone recorder?
In terms of setup, can you do everything you would want with a pc and
software like a standalone recorder?

Depends on teh soundcard, and depends on the multitrack recorder. Both can
be equally good or bad.

geoff

you might also want to consider some noise isolation of the computer
fan, which generates a significant amount of noise. A few acoustic
pannels, or some rock-wool in a suitable frame would make a big
difference if you are recording anywhere near the computer.

Luke wrote:

Agreed. How many choices and options you have depends almost entirely
on how much dough you wanna drop. It sucks being a poor college student
musician.

Oh, like hell it does. I'd give ANYTHING to again be a poor college student
musician.

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

wrote in message
oups.com

you might also want to consider some noise isolation of the computer
fan, which generates a significant amount of noise. A few acoustic
panels, or some rock-wool in a suitable frame would make a big
difference if you are recording anywhere near the computer.

Actually, most really noisy computers are noisy because they overachieve in
the fan department. Careful and creative use of one or more Zalman Fanmates
(under $10, usually $5 or less each) can help a lot. Just becareful not to
turn your fans down so low that your PC overheats.

thanks for all the advice!

My setup is currently using an Audigy soundcard, and Magix Music Maker to do
the recording. I will be testing out 2 shure mics (57 and 58), this week. (I
know that condenser mics will be better sounding)

I think i wasn't clear before but I mean I will be using the PC to do the
recording straight through either the line in or mic in.
Am I right in thinking I will need a mixer with a pre-amp mic and hook the
mixer up to the soundcard? What cable would be needed?

Thanks
Mike
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com

you might also want to consider some noise isolation of the computer
fan, which generates a significant amount of noise. A few acoustic
panels, or some rock-wool in a suitable frame would make a big
difference if you are recording anywhere near the computer.

Actually, most really noisy computers are noisy because they overachieve
in the fan department. Careful and creative use of one or more Zalman
Fanmates (under $10, usually $5 or less each) can help a lot. Just
becareful not to turn your fans down so low that your PC overheats.

In article writes:

For recording an acoustic guitar and vocals, what would be the pros and cons
of using each method above?

It doesn't matter much what you're recording. What's more important is
how you record. If you need to assemble the vocal phrase by phrase,
then a computer would be the best way to do that. Otherwise, it
probably doesn't matter, though I think that the right stand-alone
recorder can allow you to work smoother than the wrong computer setup.

Does the sound quality actually differ when using your soundcard to capture
the sound rather than a standalone recorder?

The sound quality of the recording is almost entirely dependent on the
quality of the A/D converter. If your A/D converter is the one built
into your $20 sound card, you can expect that not to sound as good as
the A/D converter built into, say, a Radar equipped with the S-Nyquist
I/O cards. But buy a $500 sound card and you can get pretty close.

In terms of setup, can you do everything you would want with a pc and
software like a standalone recorder?

If you have enough patience, yes.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message


Am I right in thinking I will need a mixer with a pre-amp mic and
hook the mixer up to the soundcard?

Yes.

What cable would be needed?

Which mixer, which soundard?

the SB Audigy and probably a behringer 1002

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message


Am I right in thinking I will need a mixer with a pre-amp mic and
hook the mixer up to the soundcard?

Yes.

What cable would be needed?

Which mixer, which soundard?

well this is my soundcard:

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigy2/

so I dont know if its any good for A/D Converting.


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1105925467k@trad...

In article
writes:

For recording an acoustic guitar and vocals, what would be the pros and
cons
of using each method above?

It doesn't matter much what you're recording. What's more important is
how you record. If you need to assemble the vocal phrase by phrase,
then a computer would be the best way to do that. Otherwise, it
probably doesn't matter, though I think that the right stand-alone
recorder can allow you to work smoother than the wrong computer setup.

Does the sound quality actually differ when using your soundcard to
capture
the sound rather than a standalone recorder?

The sound quality of the recording is almost entirely dependent on the
quality of the A/D converter. If your A/D converter is the one built
into your $20 sound card, you can expect that not to sound as good as
the A/D converter built into, say, a Radar equipped with the S-Nyquist
I/O cards. But buy a $500 sound card and you can get pretty close.

In terms of setup, can you do everything you would want with a pc and
software like a standalone recorder?

If you have enough patience, yes.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message


Am I right in thinking I will need a mixer with a pre-amp mic and
hook the mixer up to the soundcard?

Yes.

What cable would be needed?

Which mixer, which soundard?

the SB Audigy and probably a behringer 1002

My MXB1002 is someplace else right now but I'm pretty sure its main outs are
1/4 phone jacks. They're TRS but since the Audigy is unbalanced in, we'll
treat them like they are unbalanced 1/4", which I know for sure causes no
grief.

So, you get the standard dual RCA to 3.5 mm stereo mini headphone jack
cable, and two 1/4" to RCA adaptors, and plug everything together the only
way everything fits together. Run you under $10 at Radio Shack unless you
succumb to the gold-plated cable. Available lots of other places too,
although the 1/4 to RCA adaptors probably aren't found at Best Buy, even
though the cable is. The adaptors probably require a trip to a true
electronics parts/PA/Ham store like your friendly neighborhood Jameco
distributor or a good music/pro audio store like Guitar Center.

"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message

well this is my soundcard:

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigy2/

so I dont know if its any good for A/D Converting.


It beats a kick in the head.

One approach is to live with it for a while, adding other stuff like a good
mixer with at least fair mic preamps in it.

When you really start hating the SB, if that happens, you'll have some
serious ideas about what your next audio interface should be like.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll try hooking up a Behringer mixer to my
soundcard and see what is sounds like!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news
"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message

well this is my soundcard:

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigy2/

so I dont know if its any good for A/D Converting.


It beats a kick in the head.

One approach is to live with it for a while, adding other stuff like a
good mixer with at least fair mic preamps in it.

When you really start hating the SB, if that happens, you'll have some
serious ideas about what your next audio interface should be like.

Hi Arny

I got a sinking feeling with my soundcard. I dont think it does sterio line
in. I hooked my semi acoustic guitar to it through the MIC in and its in
sterio. When I hook the guitar up to the Line In, it only comes out of one
speaker. I checked the specs on the card:

Sound Blaster Audigy® 2 On-Board Connectors
a.. Line level out (Front / Rear / Center / Subwoofer /Rear Center)
b.. Digital Out for 5.1 support (6-channel SPDIF Output)
c.. Line in
d.. Microphone in
e.. FireWire port
f.. Telephone Answering Device in
g.. Analog / Digital CD Audio in
h.. 15-pin MIDI / Joystick port extension header
i.. Internal Firewire header to Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Internal Drive
(Upgrade Option*)
j.. AD_EXT extension header to the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Internal Drive
(Upgrade Option*)
* Upgrade not yet available for sale seperately
Sound Blaster Audigy® 2 Platinum Internal Drive Front Panel Connectors
(Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum ONLY)
a.. Headphone Out (1/4" Stereo Jack with Volume control)
b.. Line In 2 (1/4" Stereo Jack, shared with Microphone In 2)
c.. Microphone In 2 (1/4" Jack with Gain control)
d.. MIDI In (mini DIN)
e.. MIDI Out (mini DIN)
f.. Optical SPDIF In and Out
g.. Coaxial SPDIF In and Out
h.. Stereo Auxiliary In (2 x RCA/Coaxial Jack)
i.. Firewire port
j.. Infra-red Receiver
Now I dont have the Platunum edition (only the on board connectors), so is
it safe to say that if I hook up a mixer to the line in, I wont get sterio?

Thanks in advance
Mike

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message


Am I right in thinking I will need a mixer with a pre-amp mic and
hook the mixer up to the soundcard?

Yes.

What cable would be needed?

Which mixer, which soundard?

the SB Audigy and probably a behringer 1002

My MXB1002 is someplace else right now but I'm pretty sure its main outs
are 1/4 phone jacks. They're TRS but since the Audigy is unbalanced in,
we'll treat them like they are unbalanced 1/4", which I know for sure
causes no grief.

So, you get the standard dual RCA to 3.5 mm stereo mini headphone jack
cable, and two 1/4" to RCA adaptors, and plug everything together the only
way everything fits together. Run you under $10 at Radio Shack unless you
succumb to the gold-plated cable. Available lots of other places too,
although the 1/4 to RCA adaptors probably aren't found at Best Buy, even
though the cable is. The adaptors probably require a trip to a true
electronics parts/PA/Ham store like your friendly neighborhood Jameco
distributor or a good music/pro audio store like Guitar Center.

"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message

Hi Arny

I got a sinking feeling with my soundcard. I dont think it does
stereo line in. I hooked my semi acoustic guitar to it through the
MIC in and its in sterio. When I hook the guitar up to the Line In,
it only comes out of one speaker. I checked the specs on the card:

I'm pretty familair with the Live! series, the Audigy and the Audigy 2.

As designed and frequently delivered, they have stereo line inputs.

IOW if you plug a stereo 3.5 mm plug into the blue jack, and apply
appropriate and similar audio to the plug's tip and the ring, and have the
card and its mixer set up right, you get output from both of the outputs on
the green jack.

IOW, your Audigy 2 is either broken, or you're not using it *right*.
However, given all the options, using it *right* is not a slam dunk.

RTFM and keep trying! ;-)

thanks again for the response.
Maybe my test was not a fair one with the picup from my acoustic guitar.
I even used the monitoring software from Magik Music Maker to check the
signal and its only mono, but with the MIC in, it was in sterio. Strange.
Well I'll get my mixer anyway and see how it goes.
Thanks again

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message

Hi Arny

I got a sinking feeling with my soundcard. I dont think it does
stereo line in. I hooked my semi acoustic guitar to it through the
MIC in and its in sterio. When I hook the guitar up to the Line In,
it only comes out of one speaker. I checked the specs on the card:

I'm pretty familair with the Live! series, the Audigy and the Audigy 2.

As designed and frequently delivered, they have stereo line inputs.

IOW if you plug a stereo 3.5 mm plug into the blue jack, and apply
appropriate and similar audio to the plug's tip and the ring, and have the
card and its mixer set up right, you get output from both of the outputs
on the green jack.

IOW, your Audigy 2 is either broken, or you're not using it *right*.
However, given all the options, using it *right* is not a slam dunk.

RTFM and keep trying! ;-)

"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message


thanks again for the response.

Maybe my test was not a fair one with the picup from my acoustic
guitar.

Agreed.

I even used the monitoring software from Magik Music Maker to
check the signal and its only mono, but with the MIC in, it was in
stereo.

Strange. Well I'll get my mixer anyway and see how it goes.
Thanks again

Forgot this important tidbit: Not strange. The mic input on these cards is
mono - drives both channels equally.

In article writes:

My setup is currently using an Audigy soundcard, and Magix Music Maker to do
the recording. I will be testing out 2 shure mics (57 and 58), this week. (I
know that condenser mics will be better sounding)

You know, you can do an OK job with this if you just get some sort of
mic preamp so you don't need to use the microphone input on the
Audigy. That's clearly the weakest link. Consider a used small Mackie
mixer. You should be able to find a 1202 VLZ Pro used for $250 or so.
That will give you four mic inputs with phantom power, eight line
inputs (all convenient so you won't have to dig behind your computer
to connect something) and a convenient control of your monitors.

Record some stuff and start learning. After a while, you'll realize
where you need to expand and that will help you to make a decision as
to which direction to go.

Am I right in thinking I will need a mixer with a pre-amp mic and hook the
mixer up to the soundcard? What cable would be needed?

For a mixer like the Mackie 1202, you'll need a couple of cables with
a stereo mini plug on the sound card end and two RCA plugs on the
other end, plus a handful of RCA-1/4" adapters.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

On 2005-01-16, Mike Azzopardi wrote:

For recording an acoustic guitar and vocals, what would be the pros and cons
of using each method above?
Does the sound quality actually differ when using your soundcard to capture
the sound rather than a standalone recorder?


What sound card, compared to what standalone recorder?

Remember, the standalone recorder is usually also your mixer, preamp,
and control surface with shuttle, faders, eq, and meters. So when
comparing, also compare what you'll be using for each of those
components, which might be "none", or might be just "mixer and preamp".

If you don't have a bunch of other audio stuff you want to do on the
computer, a standalone recorder will certainly be a lot simpler, less
fiddly, and if you're starting from scratch, probably less expensive.

As far as sound quality is concerned, the main difference between all of
them is in the Analog-to-Digital conversion stage. Some devices are
really lousy, others are really excellent and completely transparent.
Fortunately this tends to be a "get what you pay for" attribute,
throughout the spectrum of digital audio.

Are you looking for the same workflow we had with cassette portastudios,
but with digital fidelity? That's not expensive or hard to find these days,
in a standalone.

On 2005-01-17, Mike Azzopardi wrote:

I think i wasn't clear before but I mean I will be using the PC to do the
recording straight through either the line in or mic in.

Ewwww, no. no no no.

Am I right in thinking I will need a mixer with a pre-amp mic and hook the
mixer up to the soundcard? What cable would be needed?

Yeah. You're on the kind of budget that is Behringer's stock in trade.
The mix bus on pretty much all Behringer mixers can be taken at a stereo
RCA pair. So, I suppose that means you need an RCA-plug-pair to 1/8" plug?

Not the best stuff, but it will get the job done.

On 2005-01-17, Arny Krueger wrote:

My MXB1002 is someplace else right now but I'm pretty sure its main outs are
1/4 phone jacks. They're TRS but since the Audigy is unbalanced in, we'll
treat them like they are unbalanced 1/4", which I know for sure causes no
grief.

Most Behringers have an RCA tape out that's useful for this sort of
thing also.

On 2005-01-17, Mike Azzopardi wrote:


well this is my soundcard:

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigy2/

so I dont know if its any good for A/D Converting.

Surprisingly good, actually. At the core is the same circuit that's
used in some pretty expensive sound devices. But it's meant for the
consumer end of the market (playback, entertainment, and gaming), and
that may or may not be a problem if you're using it for producing music,
but it will get the job done. For $80 these cards are better than they
have any right to be.

James

Thanks for the reply. Heres what im gonna do:

Hookup my shure MIC to a Behringer Mixer and then plug the mixer into the
line in of my Audigy 2 soundcard and use the Music Maker software to record.
If this doesn't sound any good, I'll probably end up getting a small Boss
Recorder and use that instead of my soundcard and PC.

Should be ok afaik.

Thanks for all the tips!

Mike

"james of tucson" wrote in message
tory.com...
On 2005-01-16, Mike Azzopardi wrote:

For recording an acoustic guitar and vocals, what would be the pros and
cons
of using each method above?
Does the sound quality actually differ when using your soundcard to
capture
the sound rather than a standalone recorder?


What sound card, compared to what standalone recorder?

Remember, the standalone recorder is usually also your mixer, preamp,
and control surface with shuttle, faders, eq, and meters. So when
comparing, also compare what you'll be using for each of those
components, which might be "none", or might be just "mixer and preamp".

If you don't have a bunch of other audio stuff you want to do on the
computer, a standalone recorder will certainly be a lot simpler, less
fiddly, and if you're starting from scratch, probably less expensive.

As far as sound quality is concerned, the main difference between all of
them is in the Analog-to-Digital conversion stage. Some devices are
really lousy, others are really excellent and completely transparent.
Fortunately this tends to be a "get what you pay for" attribute,
throughout the spectrum of digital audio.

Are you looking for the same workflow we had with cassette portastudios,
but with digital fidelity? That's not expensive or hard to find these
days,
in a standalone.

"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message
...
thanks for all the advice!

My setup is currently using an Audigy soundcard, and Magix Music Maker to
do the recording. I will be testing out 2 shure mics (57 and 58), this
week. (I know that condenser mics will be better sounding)

I think i wasn't clear before but I mean I will be using the PC to do the
recording straight through either the line in or mic in.
Am I right in thinking I will need a mixer with a pre-amp mic and hook the
mixer up to the soundcard? What cable would be needed?


That will be very compromised. Soundcard mic preamps such as yours are
pretty poor quality. You really need an external one ( even an 'economy'
mixer will be an improvement), and use your line in.

geoff

"Mike Azzopardi" wrote in message
...
Hi Arny

I got a sinking feeling with my soundcard. I dont think it does sterio
line in. I hooked my semi acoustic guitar to it through the MIC in and its
in sterio. When I hook the guitar up to the Line In, it only comes out of
one speaker. I checked the specs on the card:

If you are using a 3.5mm mini-jack, then cahnces are the mic input is mono
(but panned equally to both channels). Putting that plug into the line
input connects the active tip to the L channel, and the R channel is
grounded by the plug's sleeve.

You need a stereo jack plug, witht he signal wired tot he tip and ring, or
record the mono signal into your application and pan it.

BUT there is more. A line input is NOT suitable for direct connection to a
guitar. You need a DI box for this, that offers the correct high impedence
and sensitivity for a guitar output.

geoff

In article writes:

well this is my soundcard:
http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigy2/

so I dont know if its any good for A/D Converting.

Why worry about it? Make some recordings and find out. I'd guess that
it's OK, considering what else you're working with and what's in you
plan.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 22:55:39 -0800, "Michael R. Kesti"
wrote:

Luke wrote:

Agreed. How many choices and options you have depends almost entirely
on how much dough you wanna drop. It sucks being a poor college student
musician.

Oh, like hell it does. I'd give ANYTHING to again be a poor college student
musician.

Or just to be 20!

Al

In article writes:

Thanks for the reply. Heres what im gonna do:

Hookup my shure MIC to a Behringer Mixer and then plug the mixer into the
line in of my Audigy 2 soundcard and use the Music Maker software to record.
If this doesn't sound any good, I'll probably end up getting a small Boss
Recorder and use that instead of my soundcard and PC.

Well, if it doesn't sound good, a Boss recorder won't sound any better
unless the reason it didn't sound good was because you hooked it up
wrong or were operating it incorrectly. If it doesn't sound good, it's
going to be mostly because of your mic placement, your microphones,
your mixer, and lastly your sound card.

Just buying equipment doesn't make bad recordings sound good. Making
bad recordings sound better takes experience. Buying good equipment
makes good recordings sound better.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike

Thats about the best advice I've ever had in my short term recording carear

"Just buying equipment doesn't make bad recordings sound good. Making
bad recordings sound better takes experience. Buying good equipment
makes good recordings sound better."

Thank you!


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1105994235k@trad...

In article
writes:

Thanks for the reply. Heres what im gonna do:

Hookup my shure MIC to a Behringer Mixer and then plug the mixer into the
line in of my Audigy 2 soundcard and use the Music Maker software to
record.
If this doesn't sound any good, I'll probably end up getting a small Boss
Recorder and use that instead of my soundcard and PC.

Well, if it doesn't sound good, a Boss recorder won't sound any better
unless the reason it didn't sound good was because you hooked it up
wrong or were operating it incorrectly. If it doesn't sound good, it's
going to be mostly because of your mic placement, your microphones,
your mixer, and lastly your sound card.

Just buying equipment doesn't make bad recordings sound good. Making
bad recordings sound better takes experience. Buying good equipment
makes good recordings sound better.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo