[Greg Wormald]

In article ,
wrote:

If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which
amp to buy?

Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and
how
do I determine this?

1. "properly designed" is a just a phrase and doesn't really have any
meaning at all. It is often used by the "all amplifiers sound the
same" brigade to get out of the fact that amplifiers DO sound
different, and some of those differences can be quite significant to
some listeners under some circumstances while others will not notice
or not care.

2. Peter Wieck's advice about power requirements is spot on.

The end result is that you balance the requirements of your music with
your speakers, with your room, with your taste, and with your budget!
The only way to do this is to audition with your own set-up, in your
own room, with your own music, and decide on what you like best. I
would also suggest some long-term listening (at least hours with each
amp, days would be better) before deciding whether you like it.
Sometimes the superficially attractive can pale with more extended
listening.

You also need to listen to the music using the amp, not listen to the
amp. Your stereo (5 track, whatever) is ultimately about enjoyment, so
pay attention to how much you enjoy the music.

It also pays to be aware that increasing the price may not increase
the enjoyment.

Greg

[Arny Krueger]

"Greg Wormald" wrote in message

In article ,
wrote:

If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I
decide which amp to buy?

Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power
output and how do I determine this?

1. "properly designed" is a just a phrase and doesn't
really have any meaning at all.

I will admit that one needs to understand the meaning of the words properly
and designed in order for the phrase "properly designed" to have meaning to
you.

In the case of audio gear, "properly designed" as applied to power
amplifiers means that the amplifier takes in standard line-level signals and
delivers the claimed amount of power (or less) to the claimed load with no
audible changes. No matter what backward and poorly-informed writers may
claim, this is not an elusive goal.

It is often used by the
"all amplifiers sound the same" brigade

There is no such thing as the "all amplifiers sound the same brigade" and
the writer has tacitly admitted this by prefacing his abuse of that phrase
with discussion of the phrase "properly designed". There is such as thing as
a large group of people who know from personal experience that "All
properly designed amplifiers sound the same in proper applications".

to get out of the
fact that amplifiers DO sound different,

Since there has neither formal nor implicit qualification of this statement,
we can conclude that the author must think that all amplifiers always sound
different.

and some of
those differences can be quite significant to some
listeners under some circumstances while others will not
notice or not care.

The author ignores the fact that on many occasions even the pickiest
listeners around have found that some amplifiers can sound the same. Of
course, it really helps if those amplifiers are "properly designed".


2. Peter Wieck's advice about power requirements is spot
on.


Actually, Peter Weick's advice completely and totally ignores a number of
highly important issues.

One such highly relevant issue relates to room size, room acoustics, and
the location of prime seating with respect to the speakers. Big dead rooms
where the listeners are seated some distance from the speakers, as opposed
to small live rooms where the listener is right on top of the speakers can
have dramatic effects on the choice of amplifier and speakers.

Another such missing issue relates to expectations and preferences for
listening levels.

If one were to take Weik's relevant and well-written but highly incomplete
advice as being complete as the author seems to be suggesting, then one
would be able to get away with using a 5 watt power amp with highly
inefficient speakers in a large dead room, even if thundering listening
levels were desired. Been there, done that (in a foolish moment) and it
doesn't work!

some long-term listening (at least hours
with each amp, days would be better) before deciding
whether you like it.

If you can figure out a listening circumstance or a small set of
circumstances that comprise the reasonable worst case tests for a candidate
power amp, then you can do a go, no-go test in a few minutes.

Sometimes the superficially
attractive can pale with more extended listening.

True, but that has very little to do with the non-existent audible
differences between well-designed power amps with similar load-driving and
power output capabilities.

[Steven Sullivan]

Greg Wormald wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which
amp to buy?

Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and
how
do I determine this?

1. "properly designed" is a just a phrase and doesn't really have any
meaning at all. It is often used by the "all amplifiers sound the
same" brigade to get out of the fact that amplifiers DO sound
different, and some of those differences can be quite significant to
some listeners under some circumstances while others will not notice
or not care.

There is no 'all amplifiers sound the same' brigade -- the qualifiers are
important. One is that the listening be done at levels below clipping for the
amplifiers being compared. Another is that the amplifiers not be designed,
either purposely or through incompetence, to impart a sound of their own.
If an amp is designed NOT to be transparent, then of course it stands a good chance of souding
different from one that is.

You, on the other hand, wrote, 'amplifiers DO sound different' as if that were
always the case, when it surely isn't.

2. Peter Wieck's advice about power requirements is spot on.

The end result is that you balance the requirements of your music with
your speakers, with your room, with your taste, and with your budget!

Of course. But one can do that without making dubious claims about amp
sound.

The only way to do this is to audition with your own set-up, in your
own room, with your own music, and decide on what you like best. I
would also suggest some long-term listening (at least hours with each
amp, days would be better) before deciding whether you like it.
Sometimes the superficially attractive can pale with more extended
listening.

And sometimes the superficially offputting can become acceptable.
Accomodation is an interesting thing.

But in either case, the sighted comparison method for evaluation of *sound*
is going to be inherently flawed. In the end, whether you believe it or
not, your 'sonic' preference isn't going to be based on just the sound, if
you use sighted methods.

--
-S
A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles"
(1748)