[geoff]

Paul wrote:
On May 29, 2:45 pm, "geoff" wrote:
Paul wrote:
I'm in it for the money, bitch! I got's bills to pay!!!

Aiming for the wrong clientelle then, in my expereince at least.
Worst payers of all ( or is that 'best non-payers' ?).

geoff


What dreamland are you living in? Last I heard what music
people play most often, it was and is Hip Hop......

I guess that shows the type of people you mix with then.

I hope that aiding and abetting it gives you artistic satisfaction (and
heaps of $$$ of course. Hope you dpon't get mugged in the process.

geoff

[geoff]

wrote:
On 2011-05-30 said:
YAWN at the predictable response from this group.
But a "drum machine"? How about building up a
kick/snare/clap (etc) sample library then treating the sounds
with plugins instead? Or.. for a more instant result you could buy
a second hand MPC with the person's sample library included.

There's a possible route for Paul. I suggested the old
Alesis d4 if he can find one,

No. Somebody has to trigger it, and that person would be unreliable
time-wise as we've heard.

I would also love to find a product for $500 that ensured heaps of money
rolling in indefinitely....

geoff

[geoff]

geoff wrote:
wrote:
On 2011-05-30 said:
YAWN at the predictable response from this group.
But a "drum machine"? How about building up a
kick/snare/clap (etc) sample library then treating the sounds
with plugins instead? Or.. for a more instant result you could buy
a second hand MPC with the person's sample library included.

There's a possible route for Paul. I suggested the old
Alesis d4 if he can find one,

No. Somebody has to trigger it, and that person would be unreliable
time-wise as we've heard.

I would also love to find a product for $500 that ensured heaps of
money rolling in indefinitely....

geoff

Oh yeah, the Alesis D4 ( mine at least) screams out all sorts of crap above
8KHz constantly. Unless I turn it off.

geoff

[Sean Conolly]

"Chip Borton" wrote in message
...
On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:

I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
balls. I suspect you can't really get those
cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
best box for this.

I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....

Any recommendations?

Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
apparently he does and just wants a question answered.

I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from reading
all the threads was:

Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason. If
you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the client's
money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't enjoy.

Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients or
getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's possibly a
lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because they're
not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style.

The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although accurate,
isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist, producer,
publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend to
more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion from
the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge number of
clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large number
of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to them
that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience for
fools, with or without money.

I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some age
discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like actually
making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from people
who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I come
to this group for.

Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to a
$500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with. These
guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop is
just as good:
http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend

Sean

[rakman]

On May 30, 10:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" wrote:

I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se,

Lmao. If hip hop would just start using live drums,
get rid of the rap, get rid of softsynths and digital
keyboards, get rid of samples, get rid of auto-tune,
change all the lyrics, use traditional blues/rock,
country or jazz melodies,
go back to analog tape, stop dressing like thugs,
eliminate all pointless stuff like battles or flirting in clubs
etc.. then some of the posters responding to this thread
might be willing to accept hip hop,
but then again maybe not

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 8:56*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Paul wrote:
On May 30, 7:45 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Paul wrote:
On May 29, 1:03 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Paul wrote:
On May 29, 8:57 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Paul wrote:
On May 28, 6:28 pm, "geoff" wrote:
Paul wrote:

* * *I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!

* * *drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
ALCOHOL!!!!!

* * *TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......

I've tried hip-hop. *Doesn't keep music very well ;-)

geoff

* * *Hip Hop makes more money than any other
music at the moment. *If you wanna be in the poor
house, go ahead! * :/

McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who
want to eat crap can go right ahead. g

* * *You clearly don't make a living from music, so I
don't value your judgment anyways.

* * *And steak will clog your arteries just as fast as Micky D's.

* * *I'm in it for the money, bitch! * I got's bills to pay!!!

I'm working pretty much full time in music, Paul. Grassfed organic beef
won't clog your arteries as long as you eat your vegetables. Of course,
you'd have to chew it and that might be too much actual work for a
posturing pseudo macho gangsta.

If you were making a living in hip hop you wouldn't be here asking what
you're asking. You be slammin' the beats. Me, I'll take the beets,
please.

* * *Full time because you are retired, Grandpa?

Not retired. Been mostly doing music since high school.

Then
what you actually bring in don't matter much, eh? *LOL!

* * *I would LIKE to make some real money with Hip Hop,
because it sure as Hell sells more than ancient bluegrass!

* * *And no, I wouldn't write about *narcissistic misogyny....

* * *To each, their own......

Yep. Good luck. You're gonna need it. Now get to those bad beats.

WTF, you act like you're some big hip hop deal but you don;t know ****
about the technology. Cool. Plenty to learn there.

* * * WTF yourself! * Where did I say I was a big deal?

* * * Get off your highhorse, Grandpa. *YOU are the one acting
like you are some sort of big music act, but you ain't ****.

* * * Time to change your diapers, old man.

Ain't wearing diapers. Aren't you supposed to be working the beats and
rakin;' in the money?

I've never been a big deal and don't plan to be. However, if I wanted to
put some beats together I wouldn't have to be asking how to do that.


You don't know ****. You don't even like Hip Hop, like
most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
zero help to me.

Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?

[rakman]

On May 30, 2:23*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
geoff wrote:
Paul wrote:

* * *I'm in it for the money, bitch! * I got's bills to pay!!!

Aiming for the wrong clientelle then, in my expereince at least. *Worst
payers of all ( or is that 'best non-payers' ?).

No, that would be the Christian Rock folks, ironically enough.
--scott

Lol. Nothing ironic about that. The weaker a person
is, morally, the more they need religion to babysit
them and give them simple rules to follow/break.

[hank alrich]

Paul wrote:

You don't know ****. You don't even like Hip Hop, like
most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
zero help to me.

Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?

Try harder prick lips. You haven't a clue. See if you can figure out how
a drum machine works.

I know ****. It's you.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[hank alrich]

rakman wrote:

On May 30, 10:18 pm, "Sean Conolly" wrote:

I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se,

Lmao. If hip hop would just start using live drums,
get rid of the rap, get rid of softsynths and digital
keyboards, get rid of samples, get rid of auto-tune,
change all the lyrics, use traditional blues/rock,
country or jazz melodies,
go back to analog tape, stop dressing like thugs,
eliminate all pointless stuff like battles or flirting in clubs
etc.. then some of the posters responding to this thread
might be willing to accept hip hop,
but then again maybe not

I don't care how it's made. I care about content. So does the guy who
made that film, and he a in't an old white guy, either. He's a hip hop
fan. Violence and misogny are part of what's wrong with this world, and
hip hop is loaded with it.

Here it is again:

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/hiphop/film.htm

I figure L'il DJ Paul gonna strut his bad stuff just as if he had a
dick. He gonna kick women to the curb just like he knew any women. He
gonna get his superbad self a Cadillac in no time at all with his heavy
****. Then he gonna get his mama wipe his ass 'cause he can't find it.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 3:33*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Paul wrote:
* * *You don't know ****. *You don't even like Hip Hop, like
most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
zero help to me.

* * * Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?

Try harder prick lips. You haven't a clue. See if you can figure out how
a drum machine works.

I know ****. It's you.


You only think you know everything, ****-wit.

I found a video of you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLN3QoN-q8

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
,
Paul wrote:

On May 30, 3:33*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Paul wrote:
* * *You don't know ****. *You don't even like Hip Hop, like
most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
zero help to me.

* * * Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?

Try harder prick lips. You haven't a clue. See if you can figure out how
a drum machine works.

I know ****. It's you.


You only think you know everything, ****-wit.

I found a video of you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLN3QoN-q8

Just curious Paul: are you a musician?

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[rakman]

On May 30, 11:33*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:

I don't care how it's made. I care about content. So does the guy who
made that film, and he a in't an old white guy, either. He's a hip hop
fan. Violence and misogny are part of what's wrong with this world, and
hip hop is loaded with it.

Yeah I've banned jazz solos in my house because
of all the heroin. Especially bebop sax.

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-30 said:
snip
There's a possible route for Paul. ÿI suggested the old
Alesis d4 if he can find one, I used one, and an old hr-16
as just a sound generator and used my midi sequencer of
choice to drive it. ÿBetween those two I got a wide variety
of drum sounds that didn't give me the total gag response as
many of the ROland drum brains do. ÿthe Alesis products of
snip
A good engineer could probably get a fat
hip hop sound out of those Alesis drum
machines after a lot of heavy treatment, layering
multiple drum hits, applying eq, compression, transient designers,
low-fi plugins maybe something like the Waves SSL, parallel
compression, buss compression and whatnot. But
they do NOT give you a hip hop drum sound straight
out the box. Nowhere near it.

YEp, used a lot of compression, various verbs, and the hip
hop folks I worked with also had some samplers. That wasn't
the world I regularly inhabited even then, jingles, ambience
music, songwriter demos were more my thing back then. fOr
the wide variety of stuff I did the Alesis was a good all
rounder, but you're right I did need to do a lot of
processing. I didn't enjoy the work or the sounds I got,
but was working for somebody else where I got exposed to hh
projects. DOn't miss not having to listen to it living out
here in the boonies g.



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-30 said:
There's a possible route for Paul. I suggested the old
Alesis d4 if he can find one,
No. Somebody has to trigger it, and that person would be unreliable
time-wise as we've heard.

laugh I triggered mine with mid mostly, but every now and
then when I worked with a drummer who used triggered sounds
onstage I'd hook his triggers up.

Noted your constant 8k too, think I did the telescoping
shield thing to get rid of some of that, and if doing a
combination of midi and live instruments always muted the
electronics' tracks when not in use to minimize some of
that.




Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 2:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" wrote:
"Chip Borton" wrote in message

...



On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:

* * *I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
best box for this.

* * *I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....

* * *Any recommendations?

Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
apparently he does and just wants a question answered.

I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from reading
all the threads was:

Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason. If
you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the client's
money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't enjoy.

Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients or
getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's possibly a
lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because they're
not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style.

The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although accurate,
isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist, producer,
publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend to
more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion from
the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge number of
clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large number
of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to them
that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience for
fools, with or without money.

I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some age
discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like actually
making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from people
who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I come
to this group for.

Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to a
$500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with. These
guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop is
just as good:http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend

Sean


Ok, that seems to be a good idea.

When you buy samples like this, are they
compatible with both Protools and Cubase? Is it
easy to modify the drum loops, like where the snare
hit or high-hat's occur? I'm assuming you do all the
modifications in the track time-lines. I imagine when
you open up a drum loop, that they would have all the
different sounds (bass drum, snare, etc) all set up on
their own individual tracks that you can modify, right?

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 3:48*pm, Paul wrote:
On May 30, 2:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" wrote:



"Chip Borton" wrote in message

...

On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:

* * *I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
best box for this.

* * *I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....

* * *Any recommendations?

Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
apparently he does and just wants a question answered.

I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from reading
all the threads was:

Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason. If
you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the client's
money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't enjoy.

Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients or
getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's possibly a
lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because they're
not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style.

The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although accurate,
isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist, producer,
publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend to
more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion from
the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge number of
clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large number
of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to them
that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience for
fools, with or without money.

I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some age
discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like actually
making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from people
who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I come
to this group for.

Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to a
$500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with. These
guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop is
just as good:http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend

Sean

* * *Ok, that seems to be a good idea.

* * *When you buy samples like this, are they
compatible with both Protools and Cubase? *Is it
easy to modify the drum loops, like where the snare
hit or high-hat's occur? *I'm assuming you do all the
modifications in the track time-lines. * I imagine when
you open up a drum loop, that they would have all the
different sounds (bass drum, snare, etc) all set up on
their own individual tracks that you can modify, right?

In other words, I assume these sample packages
are NOT like this program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwAHI...=b eat%20make

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 4:20*pm, Paul wrote:
On May 30, 3:48*pm, Paul wrote:



On May 30, 2:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" wrote:

"Chip Borton" wrote in message

...

On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:

* * *I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
best box for this.

* * *I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....

* * *Any recommendations?

Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
apparently he does and just wants a question answered.

I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from reading
all the threads was:

Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason.. If
you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the client's
money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't enjoy.

Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients or
getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's possibly a
lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because they're
not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style..

The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although accurate,
isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist, producer,
publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend to
more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion from
the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge number of
clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large number
of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to them
that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience for
fools, with or without money.

I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some age
discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like actually
making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from people
who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I come
to this group for.

Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to a
$500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with. These
guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop is
just as good:http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend

Sean

* * *Ok, that seems to be a good idea.

* * *When you buy samples like this, are they
compatible with both Protools and Cubase? *Is it
easy to modify the drum loops, like where the snare
hit or high-hat's occur? *I'm assuming you do all the
modifications in the track time-lines. * I imagine when
you open up a drum loop, that they would have all the
different sounds (bass drum, snare, etc) all set up on
their own individual tracks that you can modify, right?

* * In other words, I assume these sample packages
are NOT like this program:

* * * * * * *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwAHI...ad=8476508850&...

In other words, you would just manipulate the
sample packages like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA

Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
setting? Or
would a dedicated box be better? More real-time control?

[hank alrich]

Paul wrote:

On May 30, 3:33 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Paul wrote:
You don't know ****. You don't even like Hip Hop, like
most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
zero help to me.

Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?

Try harder prick lips. You haven't a clue. See if you can figure out how
a drum machine works.

I know ****. It's you.


You only think you know everything, ****-wit.

I found a video of you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLN3QoN-q8

get your trite ****e goin'
get your big mouth blowin'
show 'em what you puttin down
show 'em how to ball
no time at all
you gonna own this town

you gonna whip a frenzy
generate envy
rollin' in the bread
lay it out straight
don't you wait
knock 'em outta they head

when you got the cash
'you can jack the flash
like there was no today
you one bad mutha
and there ain't no utha
can throw it down that way

don't be discrete
smack 'em wid a beat
like they ain't never heard
drive that jive
like a man alive
show 'em what's the word

you got the glory
tell 'em yo' story
about yo' mansion in the hood
don't mean maybe
take evahbuddy's baby
an' stick it to 'em good

when it's all gone over
an' you pushin' up clover
they all gonna chant yo' name
they gonna shake that thing
'til they break the spring
and another fool take yo' game

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
,
Paul wrote:

On May 30, 4:20*pm, Paul wrote:
On May 30, 3:48*pm, Paul wrote:



On May 30, 2:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" wrote:

"Chip Borton" wrote in message

...

On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:

* * *I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
best box for this.

* * *I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....

* * *Any recommendations?

Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
apparently he does and just wants a question answered.

I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from
reading
all the threads was:

Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason.
If
you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the
client's
money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't
enjoy.

Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients
or
getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's
possibly a
lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because
they're
not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style.

The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although
accurate,
isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist,
producer,
publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend
to
more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion
from
the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge
number of
clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large
number
of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to
them
that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience
for
fools, with or without money.

I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some
age
discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like
actually
making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from
people
who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I
come
to this group for.

Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to
a
$500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with.
These
guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop
is
just as good:http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend

Sean

* * *Ok, that seems to be a good idea.

* * *When you buy samples like this, are they
compatible with both Protools and Cubase? *Is it
easy to modify the drum loops, like where the snare
hit or high-hat's occur? *I'm assuming you do all the
modifications in the track time-lines. * I imagine when
you open up a drum loop, that they would have all the
different sounds (bass drum, snare, etc) all set up on
their own individual tracks that you can modify, right?

* * In other words, I assume these sample packages
are NOT like this program:

* * * * * *
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwAHI...ad=8476508850&...

In other words, you would just manipulate the
sample packages like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA

Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
setting? Or
would a dedicated box be better? More real-time control?

Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[rakman]

Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
,
rakman wrote:

Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably.
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. Drums can sound very much more
real on vinyl than that. The samples sounded nothing like drums.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Scott Dorsey]

polymod wrote:

In essence, that's what I had recommended in my earlier post.
Why limit yourself to a 'drum machine' whith all the samples available.

That's basically what the big hip hop guys do, they put together beat
samples from loops. It can be repetitive but it can also have breaks
and fills in it, unlike a drum machine.

Now, the question is where those samples come from, and it does seem like
the 808 samples are the things people want to see. And the truth is that
if you're selling time in a studio, the people will want to see an 808
there even if you never use it beyond the first time it's sampled.

I do remember when folks would record off of loop discs and off of drum
machines, then cut and paste individual measures together to make the
drum track on the 24-track, then lay down the rest of the tracks on the
same tape. I doubt anyone still works that way.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[rakman]

On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn wrote:
In article
,

*rakman wrote:
Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.

--www.jennifermartinmusic.com

What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
to enforce on the rest of the world? Any
examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
by your definition.

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff wrote:

I would also love to find a product for $500 that ensured heaps of money
rolling in indefinitely....

That would be cocaine. It has other problems, however. I'm glad to see it
is no longer a standard studio fixture.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

rakman wrote:
On May 30, 11:33=A0pm, (hank alrich) wrote:

I don't care how it's made. I care about content. So does the guy who
made that film, and he a in't an old white guy, either. He's a hip hop
fan. Violence and misogny are part of what's wrong with this world, and
hip hop is loaded with it.

Yeah I've banned jazz solos in my house because
of all the heroin. Especially bebop sax.

Makes sense. Look at Coltrane, he did some great work. Then he got
hooked on heroin, went all Christian and came out with crap like Love
Supreme. That stuff is bad news.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , wrote:

Noted your constant 8k too, think I did the telescoping
shield thing to get rid of some of that, and if doing a
combination of midi and live instruments always muted the
electronics' tracks when not in use to minimize some of
that.

An isolation transformer is really your friend for this sort of thing.
Relatively low-Z in too, like a 600:600 in a box.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

rakman wrote:

Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. =A0But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

Unfortunately, they don't sound much like drums, mostly because of the
sheer number of generations they've been through. But that's the sound
the customer wants.

The hi hat is totally distorted, but oh well.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

Jenn wrote:

In article
,
rakman wrote:

Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably.
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. Drums can sound very much more
real on vinyl than that. The samples sounded nothing like drums.

Youtube is not a venue from which to hear sound well. One cannot tell
what those drums actually sounded like.

Further, just because something was recorded for real back in the day
doesn't necessarily mean it will be a quality recording. Hits have been
made on Wollensaks. Now that we are used to the clarity of digital
recording, some of might not think much of some old tracks in terms of
fidelity.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[rakman]

On May 31, 1:53*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

That's basically what the big hip hop guys do, they put together beat
samples from loops. *It can be repetitive but it can also have breaks
and fills in it, unlike a drum machine. *

90% of current hip hop consists of electronic kick
and electronic handclap, no loop in sight.
Yeah plus those pitched 808 snare rolls.

People stopped using funk, jazz, rock loops
some time in the early 90s, then it was kick, snare
and hi hat for a long time until loops came back
in the form of middle eastern and indian percussion
loops early 00s. nowadays it's kick, handclap,
electronic percussion. Hihats not essential.

Some beats/dubstep/electro/hip hop people draw in all the notes
using the mouse. This is one of my problems, as a listener
I like the electronic stuff more because it's fresh, but as
a musician I enjoy the real time manipulation of a musical
instrument. In other words I enjoy playing bass, playing
guitar etc but I hate the music I end up making that way.
Mouse clicking and messing with plugins/soundscapes etc
is totally boring but the end result is way better..

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article ,
(hank alrich) wrote:

Jenn wrote:

In article
,
rakman wrote:

Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably.
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. Drums can sound very much more
real on vinyl than that. The samples sounded nothing like drums.

Youtube is not a venue from which to hear sound well.

Point.

One cannot tell
what those drums actually sounded like.

Further, just because something was recorded for real back in the day
doesn't necessarily mean it will be a quality recording. Hits have been
made on Wollensaks. Now that we are used to the clarity of digital
recording, some of might not think much of some old tracks in terms of
fidelity.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
,
rakman wrote:

On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn wrote:
In article
,

*rakman wrote:
Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.

--www.jennifermartinmusic.com

What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
to enforce on the rest of the world?

I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. I'm simply saying that those drum
samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
any room. Perhaps that wasn't the goal. Perhaps the recording sucks,
perhaps it's YouTube. Don't know.

Any
examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
by your definition.

I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
comment there. Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
top of my head. Others are not. Abbey Road, good. Let it Be, good.
Revolver, less good.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Sean Conolly]

"Paul" wrote in message
...
On May 30, 4:20 pm, Paul wrote:
On May 30, 3:48 pm, Paul wrote:
In other words, you would just manipulate the
sample packages like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA

Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
setting?

Basiclly, yes. You play the samples with MIDI tracks, and you can create the
MIDI tracks on a note-by-note basis or from a keyboard, pads, triggers, etc.

Yes you can do it live, and there's a lot of people doing just that. Using a
box would be good if you happen to find one that has all the sounds you need
and like- but you'd probably want to try before you buy.

If you're looking for specific recomendations I think you're in the wrong
group. You'd get better answers from an electronic music group.

Sean

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-30 (ScottDorsey) said:
Noted your constant 8k too, think I did the telescoping
shield thing to get rid of some of that, and if doing a
combination of midi and live instruments always muted the
electronics' tracks when not in use to minimize some of
that.
An isolation transformer is really your friend for this sort of
thing. Relatively low-Z in too, like a 600:600 in a box.

YEah I know, eight channels of the drum box anyway, and the
telescoping shield thing was a handy quick fix, so I went no
further.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn wrote:
In article
,



*rakman wrote:
On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn wrote:
In article
,

*rakman wrote:
Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.

--www.jennifermartinmusic.com

What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
to enforce on the rest of the world?

I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those drum
samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.

Any
examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
by your definition.

I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be, good. *
Revolver, less good.



The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
the goal at all in Hip Hop! That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.
Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
like
you appear to prefer the older style of drumming. As rakman
has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
in a way no human can really replicate.

If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
heard,
then you ain't gonna be of any help to me. There is bad Hip hop out
there,
but there is bad music of every kind as well.

Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.
Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
rock,
Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.

Remember how your parents didn't like your music? Well,
now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! haha

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 7:01*pm, "Sean Conolly" wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message

...
On May 30, 4:20 pm, Paul wrote:

On May 30, 3:48 pm, Paul wrote:
* * * *In other words, you would just manipulate the
sample packages like this:

* * * * * * *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA

* * * *Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
setting?

Basiclly, yes. You play the samples with MIDI tracks, and you can create the
MIDI tracks on a note-by-note basis or from a keyboard, pads, triggers, etc.

Yes you can do it live, and there's a lot of people doing just that. Using a
box would be good if you happen to find one that has all the sounds you need
and like- but you'd probably want to try before you buy.

If you're looking for specific recomendations I think you're in the wrong
group. You'd get better answers from an electronic music group.


So people use recording software like Cubase and Protools
to perform with on a laptop nowadays? Interesting.

Many newer keyboards allow you to download the latest
sounds via USB. Do any of these dedicated drum machines
allow you to download new samples?

ok, I'll ask an electronic group too.....

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 6:16*pm, rakman wrote:
On May 31, 1:53*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

That's basically what the big hip hop guys do, they put together beat
samples from loops. *It can be repetitive but it can also have breaks
and fills in it, unlike a drum machine. *

90% of current hip hop consists of electronic kick
and electronic handclap, no loop in sight.
Yeah plus those pitched 808 snare rolls.

People stopped using funk, jazz, rock loops
some time in the early 90s, then it was kick, snare
and hi hat for a long time until loops came back
in the form of middle eastern and indian percussion
loops early 00s. nowadays it's kick, handclap,
electronic percussion. Hihats not essential.

Some beats/dubstep/electro/hip hop people draw in all the notes
using the mouse. This is one of my problems, as a listener
I like the electronic stuff more because it's fresh, but as
a musician I enjoy the real time manipulation of a musical
instrument. In other words I enjoy playing bass, playing
guitar etc but I hate the music I end up making that way.
Mouse clicking and messing with plugins/soundscapes etc
is totally boring but the end result is way better..


That's interesting stuff.

You see many electronic musicians triggering things via
laptop these days. Real-time manipulation of a drum
beat looks easier with a dedicated drum machine, versus
recording software.

[Sean Conolly]

"Paul" wrote in message
...
On May 30, 7:01 pm, "Sean Conolly" wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message

...
On May 30, 4:20 pm, Paul wrote:

On May 30, 3:48 pm, Paul wrote:
In other words, you would just manipulate the
sample packages like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA

Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
setting?

Basiclly, yes. You play the samples with MIDI tracks, and you can create
the
MIDI tracks on a note-by-note basis or from a keyboard, pads, triggers,
etc.

Yes you can do it live, and there's a lot of people doing just that. Using
a
box would be good if you happen to find one that has all the sounds you
need
and like- but you'd probably want to try before you buy.

If you're looking for specific recomendations I think you're in the wrong
group. You'd get better answers from an electronic music group.


So people use recording software like Cubase and Protools
to perform with on a laptop nowadays? Interesting.

-----------------

One way is to use virtual instruments through a host package. For example I
use Reaper, which supports VSTi, so I can create a project, add a VSTi
track, set the input MIDI channel to match my controller and play away. If
your keyboard controller has pads you can map the pads to a drum machine
VSTi. Depending on the hardware the latency may be an issue.

I'm definitely a noob at this stuff, though. I haven't gotten past the idea
of performing live through a laptop yet - if I bring a laptop it's for
recording, not playing.

Sean

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
,
Paul wrote:

On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn wrote:
In article
,



*rakman wrote:
On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn wrote:
In article
,

*rakman wrote:
Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is
for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.

--www.jennifermartinmusic.com

What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
to enforce on the rest of the world?

I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those drum
samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.

Any
examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
by your definition.

I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be, good. *
Revolver, less good.



The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
the goal at all in Hip Hop! That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.

I understand that.

Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
like
you appear to prefer the older style of drumming.

Well, I prefer HUMAN drumming, but that's not really the point here.

As rakman
has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
in a way no human can really replicate.

I understand that.

If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
heard,
then you ain't gonna be of any help to me.

I know. I didn't claim to be of any help to you. In fact, I stated that
I COULDN'T help you. I just offered an opinion on the SOUND of the
samples, in comparison to the SOUND of actual drums.

There is bad Hip hop out
there,
but there is bad music of every kind as well.

Don't I know it! ;-)

Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.

I always try to listen to things that are unfamiliar to me with open
ears. Success in my work requires that. I will redouble my efforts.

Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
rock,
Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.

Yes, I can hear that. Around 2006, a touring rap act played my college,
and they were very interesting. They were in their 50s, and they billed
themselves as very original source in that music...kind of "roots of
rap". Very interesting and very informative. I wish that I could
remember their names...

Remember how your parents didn't like your music? Well,
now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! haha

Oh, I understand that very well! Paul, here's where I'm coming from:
First of all, I hope that you don't consider me to be your enemy. I'm
not. We obviously have very different tastes in music, but that, to me,
is normal in how I live my musical life, which, by the way, is about 80%
classical (I'm a conductor) and about 20% solo acoustic guitar, playing
original tunes, cover arrangements (lots of Beatles!), etc. My guitar
playing is largely a kind of combo of folk and "new age" type of sounds.
Heavy on melody, "pretty" sounds, etc. Look up Laurence Juber (one of
my teachers), Dorian Michael (my other teacher), Pierre Bensusan, Doug
Smith, Larry Pattis, et al, to get the idea. I make my living centered
around the SOUND of acoustic instruments. I value those sounds very
highly. So when I was commenting on those samples, I was referring not
to the performance, but to the SOUND of the drums. As I stated up
front, ***IF*** the goal was to replicate the sound of real drums, the
samples fell far short. But if that's not the goal, then...whatever. I
have problems listening to recorded sounds that are supposed to sound
like acoustic instruments, where the timbres are screwed up. It's a
little weakness that I have. ;-)

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 10:12*pm, Jenn wrote:
In article
,



*Paul wrote:
On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn wrote:
In article
,

*rakman wrote:
On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn wrote:
In article
,

*rakman wrote:
Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is
for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.

--www.jennifermartinmusic.com

What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
to enforce on the rest of the world?

I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those drum
samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.

Any
examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
by your definition.

I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be, good. *
Revolver, less good.

* * * * The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
the goal at all in Hip Hop! *That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.

I understand that.

Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
like
you appear to prefer the older style of drumming.

Well, I prefer HUMAN drumming, but that's not really the point here.

*As rakman
has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
in a way no human can really replicate.

I understand that.

* * * * If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
heard,
then you ain't gonna be of any help to me.

I know. *I didn't claim to be of any help to you. In fact, I stated that
I COULDN'T help you. *I just offered an opinion on the SOUND of the
samples, in comparison to the SOUND of actual drums.

*There is bad Hip hop out
there,
but there is bad music of every kind as well.

Don't I know it! *;-)

* * * * Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.

I always try to listen to things that are unfamiliar to me with open
ears. *Success in my work requires that. *I will redouble my efforts.

Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
rock,
Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.

Yes, I can hear that. *Around 2006, a touring rap act played my college,
and they were very interesting. *They were in their 50s, and they billed
themselves as very original source in that music...kind of "roots of
rap". *Very interesting and very informative. *I wish that I could
remember their names...

* * * *Remember how your parents didn't like your music? *Well,
now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! *haha

Oh, I understand that very well! *Paul, here's where I'm coming from: *
First of all, I hope that you don't consider me to be your enemy. *I'm
not. *We obviously have very different tastes in music, but that, to me,
is normal in how I live my musical life, which, by the way, is about 80%
classical (I'm a conductor) and about 20% solo acoustic guitar, playing
original tunes, cover arrangements (lots of Beatles!), etc. *My guitar
playing is largely a kind of combo of folk and "new age" type of sounds. *
Heavy on melody, "pretty" sounds, etc. *Look up Laurence Juber (one of
my teachers), Dorian Michael (my other teacher), Pierre Bensusan, Doug
Smith, Larry Pattis, et al, to get the idea. *I make my living centered
around the SOUND of acoustic instruments. *I value those sounds very
highly. *So when I was commenting on those samples, I was referring not
to the performance, but to the SOUND of the drums. *As I stated up
front, ***IF*** the goal was to replicate the sound of real drums, the
samples fell far short. *But if that's not the goal, then...whatever. *I
have problems listening to recorded sounds that are supposed to sound
like acoustic instruments, where the timbres are screwed up. *It's a
little weakness that I have. *;-)

--www.jennifermartinmusic.com


I don't consider you an enemy. Only a certain senile red-neck
out there!

But I don't see the point in you responding to a thread that
obviously has to do with creating Hip Hop beats, if you don't like
or understand hip hop at all. That's like a Rock/Blues person
trying to advise you in Classical conducting! Again, the point is NOT
to recreate
a human drummer....hip hop beats are very modern and electronic.

Instrumental solo acoustic guitar is a boring genre, imnsho. At
the very
least, you should try to hook up with a good singer. And beyond that,
the quality of the recordings you put up on your website were poor to
say the least. EQing is required, and even that may not be enough.
Did you use the microphones in the camera to record? Why not
direct
from the mixing board too, so you can mix in a direct signal from the
guitar?

To be honest, if you approved the sound quality of the videos you
posted,
I think you might wanna consider another set of ears to help with the
audio.

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
,
Paul wrote:

On May 30, 10:12*pm, Jenn wrote:
In article
,



*Paul wrote:
On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn wrote:
In article
,

*rakman wrote:
On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn wrote:
In article
,

*rakman wrote:
Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about
this
topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal
is
for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed
miserably. *
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much
more
real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.

--www.jennifermartinmusic.com

What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
to enforce on the rest of the world?

I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those
drum
samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.

Any
examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
by your definition.

I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be, good. *
Revolver, less good.

* * * * The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
the goal at all in Hip Hop! *That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.

I understand that.

Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
like
you appear to prefer the older style of drumming.

Well, I prefer HUMAN drumming, but that's not really the point here.

*As rakman
has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
in a way no human can really replicate.

I understand that.

* * * * If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
heard,
then you ain't gonna be of any help to me.

I know. *I didn't claim to be of any help to you. In fact, I stated that
I COULDN'T help you. *I just offered an opinion on the SOUND of the
samples, in comparison to the SOUND of actual drums.

*There is bad Hip hop out
there,
but there is bad music of every kind as well.

Don't I know it! *;-)

* * * * Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.

I always try to listen to things that are unfamiliar to me with open
ears. *Success in my work requires that. *I will redouble my efforts.

Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
rock,
Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.

Yes, I can hear that. *Around 2006, a touring rap act played my college,
and they were very interesting. *They were in their 50s, and they billed
themselves as very original source in that music...kind of "roots of
rap". *Very interesting and very informative. *I wish that I could
remember their names...

* * * *Remember how your parents didn't like your music? *Well,
now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! *haha

Oh, I understand that very well! *Paul, here's where I'm coming from: *
First of all, I hope that you don't consider me to be your enemy. *I'm
not. *We obviously have very different tastes in music, but that, to me,
is normal in how I live my musical life, which, by the way, is about 80%
classical (I'm a conductor) and about 20% solo acoustic guitar, playing
original tunes, cover arrangements (lots of Beatles!), etc. *My guitar
playing is largely a kind of combo of folk and "new age" type of sounds. *
Heavy on melody, "pretty" sounds, etc. *Look up Laurence Juber (one of
my teachers), Dorian Michael (my other teacher), Pierre Bensusan, Doug
Smith, Larry Pattis, et al, to get the idea. *I make my living centered
around the SOUND of acoustic instruments. *I value those sounds very
highly. *So when I was commenting on those samples, I was referring not
to the performance, but to the SOUND of the drums. *As I stated up
front, ***IF*** the goal was to replicate the sound of real drums, the
samples fell far short. *But if that's not the goal, then...whatever. *I
have problems listening to recorded sounds that are supposed to sound
like acoustic instruments, where the timbres are screwed up. *It's a
little weakness that I have. *;-)

--www.jennifermartinmusic.com


I don't consider you an enemy. Only a certain senile red-neck
out there!

Now now.


But I don't see the point in you responding to a thread that
obviously has to do with creating Hip Hop beats, if you don't like
or understand hip hop at all.

Again, I responded to the SOUND of the samples. Not the beat, not the
music, not the style...the timbre of the "drum" sound. I do know
something about the sound of drums.

That's like a Rock/Blues person
trying to advise you in Classical conducting!

Actually, I welcome that, but that's a whole different story.

Again, the point is NOT
to recreate
a human drummer....hip hop beats are very modern and electronic.

Great. The sound of the drum samples was very electronic, so I guess
they will work.


Instrumental solo acoustic guitar is a boring genre, imnsho. At
the very
least, you should try to hook up with a good singer.

I accompany singers quite often, including my partner. And I do
understand that not everyone is into solo playing. You, of course, are
entitled to your opinion.

And beyond that,
the quality of the recordings you put up on your website were poor to
say the least. EQing is required, and even that may not be enough.
Did you use the microphones in the camera to record? Why not
direct
from the mixing board too, so you can mix in a direct signal from the
guitar?

Yep, going from the board would sound better. When I have time, I'll do
that. I work at a place with a SOTA recording studio and they will be
recording my first guitar CD this summer.

To be honest, if you approved the sound quality of the videos you
posted,
I think you might wanna consider another set of ears to help with the
audio.

The point of those videos is not the audio quality, but thanks for your
input. Good luck to you... I hope that you have a long career in music.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com