[Jim Cate]

Despite all of the above discussions, I still think that good,
high-definition audio is a good thing and well-worth pursuing. Good music
itself seems to have been largely displaced by the currently in vogue
***_____*** (fill in the blanks), partially because of the demise of decent
audio technology available at rational prices IMO. - In fact, most of the
under-30's population has never even heard a decent system, and thus,
doesn't know what we are talking about.

Sorry if this note is off-topic for this "Audio.opinion" discussion group. -
Incidentally, I have a practicable suggestion for resolving the problem, if
anyone is interested.

Jim

[Boon[_2_]]

On Aug 1, 1:17*pm, "Jim Cate" wrote:
Despite all of the above discussions, I still think that good,
high-definition audio is a good thing and well-worth pursuing. *Good music
itself seems to have been largely displaced by the currently in vogue
***_____*** (fill in the blanks), partially because of the demise of decent
audio technology available at rational prices IMO. * - *In fact, most of the
under-30's population has never even heard a decent system, and thus,
doesn't know what we are talking about.

Agreed.


Sorry if this note is off-topic for this "Audio.opinion" discussion group.. -
Incidentally, I have a practicable suggestion for resolving the problem, if
anyone is interested.

As long as it isn't OT political spam, feel free to make your
suggestion.

[Bret L]

On Aug 1, 1:17*pm, "Jim Cate" wrote:
Despite all of the above discussions, I still think that good,
high-definition audio is a good thing and well-worth pursuing. *Good music
itself seems to have been largely displaced by the currently in vogue
***_____*** (fill in the blanks), partially because of the demise of decent
audio technology available at rational prices IMO. * - *In fact, most of the
under-30's population has never even heard a decent system, and thus,
doesn't know what we are talking about.

Sorry if this note is off-topic for this "Audio.opinion" discussion group.. -
Incidentally, I have a practicable suggestion for resolving the problem, if
anyone is interested.

Jim

You mean iPods and headphones? I doubt it. They play classical or any
other kind of traditional music with fidelity much better than what
MOST people had-table radios and crude "hi-fi's" (sic) fifty years
ago. And the popular HT systems are better for music than those too.

Other reasons must be found and they are not technological. Several
reasonable theories exist.

[Boon[_2_]]

On Aug 1, 5:27*pm, Bret L wrote:
On Aug 1, 1:17*pm, "Jim Cate" wrote:

Despite all of the above discussions, I still think that good,
high-definition audio is a good thing and well-worth pursuing. *Good music
itself seems to have been largely displaced by the currently in vogue
***_____*** (fill in the blanks), partially because of the demise of decent
audio technology available at rational prices IMO. * - *In fact, most of the
under-30's population has never even heard a decent system, and thus,
doesn't know what we are talking about.

Sorry if this note is off-topic for this "Audio.opinion" discussion group. -
Incidentally, I have a practicable suggestion for resolving the problem, if
anyone is interested.

Jim

*You mean iPods and headphones? I doubt it. They play classical or any
other kind of traditional music with fidelity much better than what
MOST people had-table radios and crude "hi-fi's" (sic) fifty years
ago. And the popular HT systems are better for music than those too.

*Other reasons must be found and they are not technological. Several
reasonable theories exist.

Why don't you wait for him to offer his suggestion before you shoot it
down? Idiot.

[Shhhh!!!! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Aug 1, 6:18*pm, Boon wrote:
On Aug 1, 5:27*pm, Bret L wrote:





On Aug 1, 1:17*pm, "Jim Cate" wrote:

Despite all of the above discussions, I still think that good,
high-definition audio is a good thing and well-worth pursuing. *Good music
itself seems to have been largely displaced by the currently in vogue
***_____*** (fill in the blanks), partially because of the demise of decent
audio technology available at rational prices IMO. * - *In fact, most of the
under-30's population has never even heard a decent system, and thus,
doesn't know what we are talking about.

Sorry if this note is off-topic for this "Audio.opinion" discussion group. -
Incidentally, I have a practicable suggestion for resolving the problem, if
anyone is interested.

Jim

*You mean iPods and headphones? I doubt it. They play classical or any
other kind of traditional music with fidelity much better than what
MOST people had-table radios and crude "hi-fi's" (sic) fifty years
ago. And the popular HT systems are better for music than those too.

*Other reasons must be found and they are not technological. Several
reasonable theories exist.

Why don't you wait for him to offer his suggestion before you shoot it
down?

Because "Cate" isn't a good German name?

Idiot.

Agreed.

[Jim Cate]

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Despite all of the above discussions, I still think that good,
high-definition audio is a good thing and well-worth pursuing. Good music
itself seems to have been largely displaced by the currently in vogue
***_____*** (fill in the blanks), partially because of the demise of
decent audio technology available at rational prices IMO. - In fact,
most of the under-30's population has never even heard a decent system,
and thus, doesn't know what we are talking about.

OK. My suggestion regarding countering the apparent decline of good audio
may seem simplistic and impractical at first, but hear me out. - In view of
the fact that many under-30's (or under-40's) have never heard a decent
system (and, quite naturally, have little interest in it), a logical
approach would be to provide a convenient way for them to do so. It's not
realistic to expect them, on their own initiative, to search out one of the
few remaining high-end dealerships that will permit them to listen to even a
few models of speakers, amps, etc. (E.g., to compare speakers in the same
price range from different manufacturers); and to speak with salesmen about
technology they know nothing about (none of us like to demonstrate our
ignorance, particularly to someone trying to sell us something); and to then
try to figure out which of many strange components they would want; and
then, to experience severe sticker-shock when they realize how much a good
system will cost, etc. There's also the reluctance of some even to accept a
free demo if they are fairly sure that they couldn't afford such a system
in the first place. - (Like, I don't often visit our local Ferrari or
Bently dealers and ask for a demo, knowing that I would be wasting their
time.) The underlying issue of concern to me in all this is that
ultimately, I think that the loss of interest in good audio is related to a
loss of interest in good music itself, and to a general cheapening of our
culture.

So, what's the approach I would recommend? Basically, it's to provide a
pleasant, low pressure, convenient listening opportunity to them in a
familiar location in which they often congregate or shop. And where would
that be, you ask? Well, in our area, it would be in one of the large
enclosed malls, in which thousands come every day to shop, to walk, to look
around, or to socialize. In the summer, some of us go there to walk and get
out of the heat, for example. But, you logically ask, why would a high-end
dealer want to set up an audio shop in a high traffic mall, filled with
teens, families, woman shoppers, etc. who are usually looking for womans'
clothes? My answer is that they don't have to set up a dealership. - They
only have to arrange to demo some of their systems for a period of time,
perhaps a few weeks. In our area, for example, there are always quite a few
vacant store 'sections' in most malls, and the concept would be for four or
five dealerships, or audio manufacturers, to agree to set up some systems
for temporary demos as an advertising technique, in which those in the mall
could drop in and listen to one or more systems, walk out when they wished,
ask questions, get brochures, and directions to the dealerships, etc. The
idea would be to provide a convenient, informal listening demo. (Whether or
not sales could take place might be an issue for some experimentation and
further consideration.). Obviously, there are some issues with respect to
what entity would or could organize and manage such a program. - But if it
proved successful, generating substantial interest in their products,
wouldn't the economic incentive for manufacturers and/or dealers tend to
help them "find a way?"

Several further aspects that come to mind include the following. What's in
it for the mall? Why would they want to put up with all the hassle, moving
equipment in and out, etc.? Well, if it proved to be of interest to some of
their potential customers, as a new attraction, wouldn't that in itself be
of some economic benefit to them? Further, it would seem that demos of
reasonably high-end audio equipment would attract some of the middle and
upper middle-class clientele that they're looking for in the first place. A
further possible issue might be: What if the demonstration room becomes
overcome by hoards of teens, children, and families who, realistically,
don't have the necessary minimal financial status to be good Hi-Fi audio
customers? Several approaches to this issue come to mind. First, the person
monitoring the demos could select music that would appeal to his/her
selected demographics. For example, no hip-hop, no rap, etc. Instead, lots
of classical, orchestral, classic jazz, etc. Or, set up some sort of limits,
perhaps even charging a small fee for limited groups of listeners at certain
times. I also rather think that the concept might be better suited to malls
in more well to do parts of the area.

Another issue might be: what kind of room acoustics could be achieved in
this kind of environment? Actually, it probably wouldn't be the greatest.
On the other hand, with decent size room(s) of perhaps 19 x 28 feet,
carpeted, with some wall hangings on the front and side walls and a some
"non-reflective" furniture, it could be almost equivelent to what most
customers could expect in their own home. Another issue: What price-range
equipment would be preferable for such demos? I think it would be a BIG
MISTAKE to demo ultra-expensive, high-end gear in such an environment.
(E.g., $20.000 pickups or turntables, $30,000 speakers, etc.) Instead, put
together systems at rational price levels that may not even necessarily
offer the greatest accuracy, but which would have substantial dynamic range,
good, accurate bass, wide frequency extension, etc. In other words,
systems that would clearly demonstrate some of the major differences between
'BestBuy' and high-end systems. (Don't let anyone leave the room saying that
they just don't hear well enough to appreciate the difference.)

There would be lots of problems with such a plan, right? - OK, but what's
your suggestion?

Jim

[Boon[_2_]]

The only flaw I see in your plan is that malls are largely dying in
the US, and they are no longer quite the hangout they were twenty
years ago.

But the idea of making great systems more widely available for
audition is an excellent idea. I can remember as an up-and-coming
audiophile that it was particularly difficult to listen to the good
stuff. Many high-end shops aren't that accommodating to young people,
and audio shows are few and far between in many parts of the US.
Making CES open to the public might be one small step in the right
direction (although I was always able to attend as a civilian without
any problems).

Here's a stereo store that has the right idea: http://www.furious.com/perfect/vinyl75.html.

[Glanbrok[_2_]]

On Aug 2, 10:04*am, Boon wrote:

The only flaw I see in your plan is that malls are largely dying in
the US, and they are no longer quite the hangout they were twenty
years ago.

I can understand Queenie Catie's obliviousness, but not yours, Marc.
A certain speaker company has been selling in malls for many years.
Wait, is Bosey Ackmeier still hanging 'round? He can tell ya, that's
fer sure!

[Boon[_2_]]

On Aug 4, 7:30*pm, Glanbrok wrote:
On Aug 2, 10:04*am, Boon wrote:

The only flaw I see in your plan is that malls are largely dying in
the US, and they are no longer quite the hangout they were twenty
years ago.

I can understand Queenie Catie's obliviousness, but not yours, Marc.
A certain speaker company has been selling in malls for many years.
Wait, is Bosey Ackmeier still hanging 'round? He can tell ya, that's
fer sure!

Have you seen any of them lately? The couple that I've seen are no
longer there, which is a step in the right direction.

[MiNe 109]

In article
,
Boon wrote:

On Aug 4, 7:30*pm, Glanbrok wrote:
On Aug 2, 10:04*am, Boon wrote:

The only flaw I see in your plan is that malls are largely dying in
the US, and they are no longer quite the hangout they were twenty
years ago.

I can understand Queenie Catie's obliviousness, but not yours, Marc.
A certain speaker company has been selling in malls for many years.
Wait, is Bosey Ackmeier still hanging 'round? He can tell ya, that's
fer sure!

Have you seen any of them lately? The couple that I've seen are no
longer there, which is a step in the right direction.

There's a Bang & Olufsen downtown in one of the high rise condos,
probably the closest to high end many shoppers will ever be.

Stephen

[Glanbrok[_2_]]

On Aug 5, 12:01*am, Boon wrote:

The only flaw I see in your plan is that malls are largely dying in
the US, and they are no longer quite the hangout they were twenty
years ago.

I can understand Queenie Catie's obliviousness, but not yours, Marc.
A certain speaker company has been selling in malls for many years.
Wait, is Bosey Ackmeier still hanging 'round? He can tell ya, that's
fer sure!

Have you seen any of them lately? The couple that I've seen are no
longer there, which is a step in the right direction.

I just checked at www.XXXX.com. They have 9 stores within 50 miles of
my ZIP, but only 2 within range of Austin. (I tried to tell the damn
site that 50 miles was nothing in Texas, but it refused to listen.)

You and Stephen are blessed.

[Bret L]

On Aug 2, 10:04*am, Boon wrote:
The only flaw I see in your plan is that malls are largely dying in
the US, and they are no longer quite the hangout they were twenty
years ago.

But the idea of making great systems more widely available for
audition is an excellent idea. I can remember as an up-and-coming
audiophile that it was particularly difficult to listen to the good
stuff. Many high-end shops aren't that accommodating to young people,
and audio shows are few and far between in many parts of the US.
Making CES open to the public might be one small step in the right
direction (although I was always able to attend as a civilian without
any problems).

Here's a stereo store that has the right idea:http://www.furious.com/perfect/vinyl75.html.

Maybe it would be good if a few more high end saloons went tits up.

[Glanbrok[_2_]]

Bratzi looks into the future. Whose future is unspecified.

*Maybe it would be good if a few more high end saloons went tits up.

Would such a circumstances hasten your own journey to becoming food
for worms? If that's the idea here, I'm sure you'll find tons of
support for it on Usenet.

[Boon[_2_]]

On Aug 6, 9:48*am, Bret L wrote:
On Aug 2, 10:04*am, Boon wrote:

The only flaw I see in your plan is that malls are largely dying in
the US, and they are no longer quite the hangout they were twenty
years ago.

But the idea of making great systems more widely available for
audition is an excellent idea. I can remember as an up-and-coming
audiophile that it was particularly difficult to listen to the good
stuff. Many high-end shops aren't that accommodating to young people,
and audio shows are few and far between in many parts of the US.
Making CES open to the public might be one small step in the right
direction (although I was always able to attend as a civilian without
any problems).

Here's a stereo store that has the right idea:http://www.furious.com/perfect/vinyl75.html.

*Maybe it would be good if a few more high end saloons went tits up.

So you didn't read the article. You're pretty worthless when it comes
to "participating" on a discussion forum. Please leave.