SET YOUR AMPLIFIER WITH THE MULTIMETER WHEN THE SPEAKERS ARE TOTALLY
DISCONNECTED OTHERWISE , THE READING WILL BE WAY OFF ..

Quote by George :
I've used a multimeter to set my gains for both my sub amp and my
speakers' amp. I've used the V=sqrt(P*R) formula and it worked well
for
my sub amp.
But when using this formula to set my speakers' amp's gain, the
volume of
the speakers was enough to destroy my hearing at volume 10 out of 62.
So
I had to turn the gain way down. I had used 50 watts in the formula
initially. The 25 watts was just a guess.

The problem with the formula is R. Who can reliably tell what R is?
It's
actually not R, it's Z, and that's the problem. Worse again, even if
you've nailed down what Z is at the test frequency, power compression
can
set in and change R (not Z) easily by a factor of 2. Such power
estimates
are really just guesses. It may sound archaic, but the tried and true
way
to set your gains is by ear. Eddie Runner, despite his poor grammar
and
spelling, explains it well he www.installer.com/tech/gains.html



It just seemed as if I could have used a 20 watt amp for my 65 watt
RMS
speakers, and I don't understand how anything more can be utilized if
it
just makes the speakers overpower everything and get loud way too
early in
the volume dial. People say giving speakers more power makes them
sound
fuller and clearer, but all I sense is excessive loudness too early
in the
volume dial. Or will having the extra power, even with the gain
turned
down, allow for better clarity and punch at higher volumes? If I
turn
down my 50W amp, will a 100W amp turned down sound better at higher
volumes?


What you're describing is a gain issue rather than a power issue.
Basically, you're probably hitting your 65 watts (or more) by the time
you
reach 10 on the head unit. Using a meter to estimate power just
doesn't
work. There are other ways to do it, but arbitrary test tones and
impedance estimates ain't it...


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I used a multimeter to give my front speakers (Kicker K65 coaxials, rated
at 65W RMS) about 50W from my 4-channel amp and I realized that at that
setting, they were WAY too loud and I ended up turning the gain down by a
quite a bit.

I probably ended up setting the gain so they were receiving 25W per side
or so at 75% volume with a 1 kilohertz wave and they've never sounded
great. I know they're not the best speakers but with only 25W per side, I
think that has something to do with it.

I am about to get a new 75W x 2 amp but I'm predicting I'm going to have
the same problem. I will set the gain to push 70W per side but they'll
just be way too loud and I'll have to turn the gain down and defeat the
whole purpose of having a more powerful amp.

Is there any way I can provide the speakers with more power without having
them blast my ears out at 30% of my headunit's volume?

Thanks for any advice,
George

"George" wrote in message
news
I used a multimeter to give my front speakers (Kicker K65 coaxials, rated
at 65W RMS) about 50W from my 4-channel amp and I realized that at that
setting, they were WAY too loud and I ended up turning the gain down by a
quite a bit.

I probably ended up setting the gain so they were receiving 25W per side
or so at 75% volume with a 1 kilohertz wave and they've never sounded
great. I know they're not the best speakers but with only 25W per side, I
think that has something to do with it.

I am about to get a new 75W x 2 amp but I'm predicting I'm going to have
the same problem. I will set the gain to push 70W per side but they'll
just be way too loud and I'll have to turn the gain down and defeat the
whole purpose of having a more powerful amp.

Is there any way I can provide the speakers with more power without having
them blast my ears out at 30% of my headunit's volume?

I don't understand the question. In fact, I don't understand your entire
procedure. How do you know that the amplifier is only delivering 25 watts
to the speakers? And even if that's the case and you're fine with what 25
watts gives you, why would you want to buy a bigger amp for them??

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:34:29 -0400, MZ wrote:

I don't understand the question. In fact, I don't understand your entire
procedure. How do you know that the amplifier is only delivering 25 watts
to the speakers? And even if that's the case and you're fine with what 25
watts gives you, why would you want to buy a bigger amp for them??

I've used a multimeter to set my gains for both my sub amp and my
speakers' amp. I've used the V=sqrt(P*R) formula and it worked well for
my sub amp.
But when using this formula to set my speakers' amp's gain, the volume of
the speakers was enough to destroy my hearing at volume 10 out of 62. So
I had to turn the gain way down. I had used 50 watts in the formula
initially. The 25 watts was just a guess.

It just seemed as if I could have used a 20 watt amp for my 65 watt RMS
speakers, and I don't understand how anything more can be utilized if it
just makes the speakers overpower everything and get loud way too early in
the volume dial. People say giving speakers more power makes them sound
fuller and clearer, but all I sense is excessive loudness too early in the
volume dial. Or will having the extra power, even with the gain turned
down, allow for better clarity and punch at higher volumes? If I turn
down my 50W amp, will a 100W amp turned down sound better at higher
volumes?

Thanks for the replies,
George

So........ you want to give your speakers more power without increasing
power output?

Basically the more wattage you give to a speaker the louder it will be.
I think you are just unhappy with either the drivers or the enclosure
or the positioning.

Unless the 50watts was clipping heavily, which I doubt....

I really don't understand, but if you haven't bought the new amp,
don't, more power = louder, and nothing more.



George wrote:
I used a multimeter to give my front speakers (Kicker K65 coaxials, rated
at 65W RMS) about 50W from my 4-channel amp and I realized that at that
setting, they were WAY too loud and I ended up turning the gain down by a
quite a bit.

I probably ended up setting the gain so they were receiving 25W per side
or so at 75% volume with a 1 kilohertz wave and they've never sounded
great. I know they're not the best speakers but with only 25W per side, I
think that has something to do with it.

I am about to get a new 75W x 2 amp but I'm predicting I'm going to have
the same problem. I will set the gain to push 70W per side but they'll
just be way too loud and I'll have to turn the gain down and defeat the
whole purpose of having a more powerful amp.

Is there any way I can provide the speakers with more power without having
them blast my ears out at 30% of my headunit's volume?

Thanks for any advice,
George

I don't understand the question. In fact, I don't understand your entire
procedure. How do you know that the amplifier is only delivering 25 watts
to the speakers? And even if that's the case and you're fine with what 25
watts gives you, why would you want to buy a bigger amp for them??

I've used a multimeter to set my gains for both my sub amp and my
speakers' amp. I've used the V=sqrt(P*R) formula and it worked well for
my sub amp.
But when using this formula to set my speakers' amp's gain, the volume of
the speakers was enough to destroy my hearing at volume 10 out of 62. So
I had to turn the gain way down. I had used 50 watts in the formula
initially. The 25 watts was just a guess.

The problem with the formula is R. Who can reliably tell what R is? It's
actually not R, it's Z, and that's the problem. Worse again, even if
you've nailed down what Z is at the test frequency, power compression can
set in and change R (not Z) easily by a factor of 2. Such power estimates
are really just guesses. It may sound archaic, but the tried and true way
to set your gains is by ear. Eddie Runner, despite his poor grammar and
spelling, explains it well he www.installer.com/tech/gains.html



It just seemed as if I could have used a 20 watt amp for my 65 watt RMS
speakers, and I don't understand how anything more can be utilized if it
just makes the speakers overpower everything and get loud way too early in
the volume dial. People say giving speakers more power makes them sound
fuller and clearer, but all I sense is excessive loudness too early in the
volume dial. Or will having the extra power, even with the gain turned
down, allow for better clarity and punch at higher volumes? If I turn
down my 50W amp, will a 100W amp turned down sound better at higher
volumes?


What you're describing is a gain issue rather than a power issue.
Basically, you're probably hitting your 65 watts (or more) by the time you
reach 10 on the head unit. Using a meter to estimate power just doesn't
work. There are other ways to do it, but arbitrary test tones and
impedance estimates ain't it...

"George" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:34:29 -0400, MZ wrote:

I don't understand the question. In fact, I don't understand your entire
procedure. How do you know that the amplifier is only delivering 25
watts
to the speakers? And even if that's the case and you're fine with what
25
watts gives you, why would you want to buy a bigger amp for them??

I've used a multimeter to set my gains for both my sub amp and my
speakers' amp. I've used the V=sqrt(P*R) formula and it worked well for
my sub amp.
But when using this formula to set my speakers' amp's gain, the volume of
the speakers was enough to destroy my hearing at volume 10 out of 62. So
I had to turn the gain way down. I had used 50 watts in the formula
initially. The 25 watts was just a guess.

It just seemed as if I could have used a 20 watt amp for my 65 watt RMS
speakers, and I don't understand how anything more can be utilized if it
just makes the speakers overpower everything and get loud way too early in
the volume dial. People say giving speakers more power makes them sound
fuller and clearer, but all I sense is excessive loudness too early in the
volume dial. Or will having the extra power, even with the gain turned
down, allow for better clarity and punch at higher volumes? If I turn
down my 50W amp, will a 100W amp turned down sound better at higher
volumes?

Thanks for the replies,
George

this is an easy fix. turn down the gain on the amp till it sounds better and
matches better.

SET YOUR AMPLIFIER WITH THE MULTIMETER WHEN THE SPEAKERS ARE TOTALLY
DISCONNECTED OTHERWISE , THE READING WILL BE WAY OFF ..

Yikes. That's even worse. The only benefit to doing so is that you remove
output impedance and back emf from the equation. But you wouldn't want to
do that, since those things are factors in the real world operation of the
system.

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 05:40:20 +0000, MZ wrote:

What you're describing is a gain issue rather than a power issue.
Basically, you're probably hitting your 65 watts (or more) by the time you
reach 10 on the head unit. Using a meter to estimate power just doesn't
work. There are other ways to do it, but arbitrary test tones and
impedance estimates ain't it...

Alright, thank you for the information and advice. I have gotten in the
habit of setting my gain with the formula because I have in the past blown
some subwoofers due to clipping and there was never any hint of
distortion or way to tell by ear from my perspective. I will set the gain
for my speakers' amp by ear.

My only question is: Will a 100W amp make my speakers sound better than a
50W amp if the gains are set by ear in both situations to match the level
of the rest of the system? Or will it only give me the ability to achieve
higher overall volumes? I have heard people say their speakers "came
alive" when using more power.

Thanks again,
George

My only question is: Will a 100W amp make my speakers sound better than a
50W amp if the gains are set by ear in both situations to match the level
of the rest of the system? Or will it only give me the ability to achieve
higher overall volumes? I have heard people say their speakers "came
alive" when using more power.

It will only make your speakers sound better if you actually use the
additional power. The volume thing and the "come alive" thing are really
the same. 100 watts is no better than 10 watts if you listen at very very
quiet levels, never exceeding 10 watts. But most people listen at louder
volumes than what 10 watts will provide. As for 50 watts, well it all
depends on your listening preferences.

It's often difficult to tell when you're driving an amp into clipping. A
noticable amount of distortion usually doesn't occur until you're well
overdriven. Bass response may also suffer because, as an amp is clipping,
it's usually the 60-200 Hz components that are peaking - further increases
in volume will tend to give you more higher frequency content mostly due to
harmonics. So, turning up the volume past the point of clipping increases
the output of the higher frequencies but not of the lower frequencies,
giving you the impression that the bass response is waning. And then the
nasty distortion byproducts soon become noticed, usually giving a "harsh"
sound...