[Bernard]

Hi to Everyone,

Could someone help me managing my new audio card ?

It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is too
low, and I can't enhance it. On the contrary, with my old audio card that
was part of my ASUS motherboard, I was getting to high input volumes and I
had to lower the input to 7 to 13% of the maximum so as to avoid
saturating, such low settings were not in the green area for recording.

Here is what I get with Alsamixer :

Alsamixer v1.0.13
Card: M Audio Audiophile 24/96
Chip: ICE 1712 - multitrack
View: Playback Capture [All]
Item : list follows:

Item: IEC958 set on H/W In 0

Item: IEC958 Multi. Was in 'L CAPTUR R' mode, but I de-activated it, to no
avail. I am not in multichannel mode, only in stereo.

Item: IEC958 Multi 1: same thing

Item: IEC958 1 set to 'H/W In 1'

other options for IEC958 et IEC958 1 were H/W In 2 ... H/W In 7,
IEC958 In L, IEC958 In R, PCM Out, Digital Mixer.

Item: ADC (Analog to Digital Controller ??) set to 55%, dB gain =
-18.5 (in the green area)

Item: ADC1: idem : dB gain=-18.5

Item: ADC Capture. dB gain=-23 (in the green)

Item: ADC1 Capture. dB gain=-23 (in the green)

Item: DAC (Digital to Analog Controller ??) dB gain=-23 idem

Item: DAC Capture -23 dB

Item: DAC1 -23 dB

Item DAC1 Capture -23 dB

Item: Deemphasis. Set to 48 kHz. Other options : 32, 44.1,
OFF

Item: H/W set to H/W In 0

Item: H/W1 set to H/W In 1

other options : H/W In 2, H/W In 3,
.... H/W In 7, IEC958 In L, IEC958 In R

Item: H/W Multi L CAPTUR R CAPTUR de-activated

Item: H/W Multi1 L CAPTUR R de-activated

Items: Multi, Multi1, Multi2... Multi9 set to Mute (MM)

Item: Multi Track Internal Clock : 44100

Item: Multi Track Internal Clock Default : 44100

Item: Multi Track Peak 5656

Item: Multi Track Peak 6969 (two homonymous items, same for the next two)

Item: Multi Track Peak. Here a single figure : 69

Item: Multi Track Peak. Same thing, 69

Item: Multi Track Capture. Set to 86, against my will. The green area
starts at 39, but if I rise the setting, it comes back to low values after
restarting 'alsamixer'. True enough, I am not in multichannel mode, so
chances are that this setting is obsolete here.

Items: Third and fourth 'multi track peak'

Item: Multi Track Rate Locking. 2 options : Mute ou 00.

Item: Multi Track Rate Reset: idem

Item: Multi Track Volume Rate : 67


Thanks in advance for comments and advises.

[Richard Crowley]

Bernard wrote:
Could someone help me managing my new audio card ?

It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is
too low, and I can't enhance it.

You must use an RIAA phono preamp between the pickup
cartridge and the line input to the sound card. AFAIK, there
are NO computer audio cards which have inputs appropriate
for phono cartrdges (47K input impedance, high gain, and
the RIAA equalization curve).

[Bernard]

Le Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:13:14 -0700, Richard Crowley a écrit*:

Bernard wrote:
Could someone help me managing my new audio card ?

It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is
too low, and I can't enhance it.

You must use an RIAA phono preamp between the pickup cartridge and the
line input to the sound card. AFAIK, there are NO computer audio cards
which have inputs appropriate for phono cartrdges (47K input impedance,
high gain, and the RIAA equalization curve).

Yes, I do have a RIAA phono preamp between the two.

[Richard Crowley]

"Bernard" wrote ...
Richard Crowley a écrit :
Bernard wrote:
It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is
too low, and I can't enhance it.

You must use an RIAA phono preamp between the pickup cartridge and the
line input to the sound card. AFAIK, there are NO computer audio cards
which have inputs appropriate for phono cartrdges (47K input impedance,
high gain, and the RIAA equalization curve).

Yes, I do have a RIAA phono preamp between the two.

Then either the phono preamp output is too low or the 2496
card input gain is too low. The common differential diagnosis
techniques would quickly identify which was the case.

[Dave Platt]

In article ,
Richard Crowley wrote:

It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is
too low, and I can't enhance it.

You must use an RIAA phono preamp between the pickup cartridge and the
line input to the sound card. AFAIK, there are NO computer audio cards
which have inputs appropriate for phono cartrdges (47K input impedance,
high gain, and the RIAA equalization curve).

Yes, I do have a RIAA phono preamp between the two.

Then either the phono preamp output is too low or the 2496
card input gain is too low. The common differential diagnosis
techniques would quickly identify which was the case.

One possibility, I suppose, is that the OP is using a low-output
moving-coil cartridge. These require some form of additional
step-up device (either a transformer, or a "head amp") prior to the
normal RIAA preamplifier.

It might also just be a relatively low-level moving-iron or
moving-magnet cartridge.

Another possibility is that the RIAA preamp was designed for the older
consumer standard ("full output" being 1 volt peak-to-peak) but that
the Audiophine 2496 is designed for the newer (CD-era) consumer
standard ("full scale input" being 2 volts peak-to-peak). This would
result in a 50% reduction in apparent input level.

An additional question for the OP: just how much "too low" is the
signal level once you've digitized it?

If the highest peak volume level you're seeing on your LPs is, say,
up to 25% of full-scale, then I'd actually recommend that you not
fiddle at all with the input gain. If you need to normalize, do so in
the digital domain after capturing.

Here's why.

There can be a fairly wide variation in the peak signal level of LPs.
Different manufacturers "cut" the albums differently. There's a
complex tradeoff between maximum cutting level, play time per side,
background noise level, and distortion. I've had some particularly
aggressive albums whose peak levels seemed to be almost 10 dB above
that of albums with a quieter cutting (although this is a fairly
extreme case).

In my opinion, when digitizing LPs, the most important thing to do is
make sure that the highest peak level, on the "hottest" LP, doesn't
clip. Clipping sounds really nasty, and cannot be corrected properly.

The dynamic range of even a 16-bit audio capture is significantly
greater than the dynamic range of an LP... even that of a
mint-condition, never-before-played LP pressed on really good virgin
vinyl. You can afford to throw away a couple of bits of dynamic range
at the top end, by having your average input level down at half- or
quarter-scale, in order to avoid the risk of clippping; the quietest
passages on the LP, and the residual surface noise will still be
comfortably far above the 16-bit quantization threshold.

This is even more true if you have a "24-bit" converter, and can
capture audio in a 24-bit format. I say "24-bit" because such
converters usually don't have a true 24-bit dynamic range... last time
I looked the better ones were in the 21- to 22-bit range.
Nevertheless, there's plenty of range here - quite a bit more than an
LP requires.

Best recipe: capture in a 24-bit format (with the input gain adjusted
to keep the worst-case peak on a really loud record some distance
below full-scale), edit (clean up pops and ticks), then convert to
16-bit format (gain-boosting to normalize while still avoiding
clipping, if you wish) using a decent dithering algorithm.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Ken[_8_]]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:13:14 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

Bernard wrote:
Could someone help me managing my new audio card ?

It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is
too low, and I can't enhance it.

You must use an RIAA phono preamp between the pickup
cartridge and the line input to the sound card. AFAIK, there
are NO computer audio cards which have inputs appropriate
for phono cartrdges (47K input impedance, high gain, and
the RIAA equalization curve).


RIAA computer audio cards
http://www.terratec.net/en/products/...inyl_2064.html
http://www.hama.de/portal/searchSele...bySearch*40515

[Richard Crowley]

"Ken" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Could someone help me managing my new audio card ?

It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is
too low, and I can't enhance it.

You must use an RIAA phono preamp between the pickup
cartridge and the line input to the sound card. AFAIK, there
are NO computer audio cards which have inputs appropriate
for phono cartrdges (47K input impedance, high gain, and
the RIAA equalization curve).


RIAA computer audio cards
http://www.terratec.net/en/products/...inyl_2064.html
http://www.hama.de/portal/searchSele...bySearch*40515


Not exactly plug-in I/O cards, but thanks.
OTOH, the sound card cited does NOT have RIAA inputs and
no mention of a phono preamp was made in the OP's initial post.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Bernard wrote:

Could someone help me managing my new audio card ?

It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is
too low, and I can't enhance it. On the contrary, with my old audio
card that was part of my ASUS motherboard, I was getting to high
input volumes and I had to lower the input to 7 to 13% of the maximum
so as to avoid saturating, such low settings were not in the green
area for recording.

Here is what I get with Alsamixer :

Use m-audio's driver software. You may prefer not to use the newest version,
the newest version does not let you record the output of the monitor mixer
as I recall this.

It is generally preferable to use a complete hifi-preamp (or "pre-out" from
an integrated with a patch point beteeen preamp and poweramp) and use the
output to power-amplifier, that gives you a record volume control. The next
best thing may be to use the headphone output. Tape out may however be ok
and it is likely to be the cleanest sounding choice. It doesn't really
matter with a 24 bit card if the recorded audio generally is at -10 to -6
dB, something that is quite likely with this card and a ""standard riaa amp
and cartridge"", it is still cleaner to adjust level afterwards AND you DO
need to record all scratches cleanly.

The concept of an AD conversion card as this is is that there is that it is
a line in card with no controls, the only settings are for matching the
output level.

Alsamixer v1.0.13

Unless this software is broken it should work to select the cards inputs in
the recording software and leave everything in their default settings. My
recollection is - it may be wrong - that there is linux driver and software
available on m-audio's site, perhaps you should use that.

Thanks in advance for comments and advises.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Bernard]

Le Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:07:00 +0100, Peter Larsen a écrit*:

Bernard wrote:

Could someone help me managing my new audio card ?

It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is
too low, and I can't enhance it. On the contrary, with my old audio card
that was part of my ASUS motherboard, I was getting to high input
volumes and I had to lower the input to 7 to 13% of the maximum so as to
avoid saturating, such low settings were not in the green area for
recording.

Here is what I get with Alsamixer :

Use m-audio's driver software. You may prefer not to use the newest
version, the newest version does not let you record the output of the
monitor mixer as I recall this.

Ever since I wrote my first post, I have found this link, where my audio
card is being discussed by users. All comments are positive, except for
the first one on the list, and it just happens that the guy purchased that
card for the same purpose as mine, that is, digitilizing vinyl records. He
also found input levels too low, and digital 'burps' in his audio samples
(I don't know what that is, and I doubt if I have these). He also says
that that card did a poor sampling job, compared to his former audio card.
All other comments are positive, but no one else seems to have digitilized
vinyls with that card...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e=1 00&Page=1

However, it is not sure whether this guy's problems would reproduce on my
system. At the end of this post, I will propose links for a few 30 seconds
samples that I obtained : maybe someone could then tell me if he or she
notices such digital burps or other defects besides scratches, and what to
think of the quality of sampling and of background noise.


It is generally preferable to use a complete hifi-preamp (or "pre-out"
from an integrated with a patch point beteeen preamp and poweramp) and
use the output to power-amplifier, that gives you a record volume
control. The next best thing may be to use the headphone output.

Great idea : I just tested it ! Whatever comes from this output has gone
through the amplifier, while what comes from Tape Out has only gone
through the RIAA adjustment. So, I can enhance the output level so that it
gets close to 0 dB for treatment and record. As you point out,
processing that way may not be the best strategy for quality, and the
"phones" output is obviously not meant for that purpose. I propose
samples below :

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musiq...Mozart.wav.bz2

is a 30 sec sample of a vinyl record that has been digitilized using my
M-Audio 2496 audio card. No treatment was applied to the files, except an
export to 32bits float wav file (and then losslessly compressed using
bzip2)

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musiq...t_ampl.wav.bz2

is the same music sample, but I have amplified it of 7.3 dB using audacity.

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musiq...phones.wav.bz2

Is another digitilizing of the same music sample, processed from the
headphones output, amplification adjusted on the hardware amplifier so as
to approach 0 dB. No treatment was done afterwards.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Bernard wrote:


Ever since I wrote my first post, I have found this link, where my
audio card is being discussed by users. All comments are positive,
except for the first one on the list, and it just happens that the
guy purchased that card for the same purpose as mine, that is,
digitilizing vinyl records. He also found input levels too low,

Give it more input then. Seriously: it is already too sensitive to reall
give you 24 bit AD conversion because of the analog noise floor.

and
digital 'burps' in his audio samples (I don't know what that is, and
I doubt if I have these).

That guy has something else broke in his setup, perhaps an on board graphics
card, perhaps something networking that needs to be disabled in that
specific box. Or his actual card is defective out of the box.

He also says that that card did a poor
sampling job, compared to his former audio card. All other comments
are positive, but no one else seems to have digitilized vinyls with
that card...

It is the card I use and I use it as I suggested that you should, ie. with a
japanese preamp from the age o the quality wars and via tape out, levels
match perfectly, ie. I can digitize the loudest scratch without clipping and
it is REQUIRED to be able to do just that if you want optimum results.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

I didn't read the rest ... busy morning, bear with me.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Richard Crowley]

"Bernard" wrote ...
Ever since I wrote my first post, I have found this link, where my audio
card is being discussed by users. All comments are positive, except for
the first one on the list, and it just happens that the guy purchased that
card for the same purpose as mine, that is, digitilizing vinyl records. He
also found input levels too low,

Unless your card is broken I can't see how "digitizing vinyl records"
has anything to do with "levels too low". If you are using an RIAA
phono preamp which is putting out the proper line level, it should
drive the M-Audio sound card perfectly. I am quite certain that
hundreds (or even thousands) of people are digitizing vinyl records
with this M-Audio card with no problems at all.

Repeating: Test both your RIAA phono preamp AND your M-Audio
card with other equipment to determine if the preamp is outputing the
nominal consumer line level signal. And try some other source (such as
a CD player, etc.) as the source into the M-Audio card to establish
whether that is the problem.

Nothing you have written causes me to believe that there is anything
intrinsicly problematic with the M-Audio card that causes it to be
unsuitable for digitizing vinyl records. You appear to have a level-
setting problem and so far you have not reported doing any of the
recommended tests to establish where the problem lies. Only you
can do this experiment, we cannot guess how your hardware is
working, especially at this distance.

and digital 'burps' in his audio samples
(I don't know what that is, and I doubt if I have these). He also says
that that card did a poor sampling job, compared to his former audio card.
All other comments are positive, but no one else seems to have digitilized
vinyls with that card...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e=1 00&Page=1

Nothing about that comment makes me believe there is anything
wrong with the M-Audio card. It seems quite obvious that the
person has not set up his hardware and/or software properly.

...I propose samples below :

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musiq...Mozart.wav.bz2

If you post files that only Linux users can easily decrypt, then you
can expect answers from only Linux users and there are very very
few (if any?) of them here. You might have better success taking
your question over to a Linux newsgroup. But PLEASE do not
cross-post anything from Linux-land to this newsgroup. The past
results are consistently disasterous.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Richard Crowley wrote:

Nothing you have written causes me to believe that there is anything
intrinsicly problematic with the M-Audio card that causes it to be
unsuitable for digitizing vinyl records.

it is excellent for the purpose and fits the tape-out level on my preamp
perfectly when using a high output MC. The record level may not be louder
than what allows a clean recording of the loudest possible click on a
record.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Bernard]

Le Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:34:01 -0700, Richard Crowley a écrit*:

"Bernard" wrote ...
Ever since I wrote my first post, I have found this link, where my audio
card is being discussed by users. All comments are positive, except for
the first one on the list, and it just happens that the guy purchased
that card for the same purpose as mine, that is, digitilizing vinyl
records. He also found input levels too low,

Unless your card is broken I can't see how "digitizing vinyl records" has
anything to do with "levels too low". If you are using an RIAA phono
preamp which is putting out the proper line level, it should drive the
M-Audio sound card perfectly. I am quite certain that hundreds (or even
thousands) of people are digitizing vinyl records with this M-Audio card
with no problems at all.

Repeating: Test both your RIAA phono preamp AND your M-Audio card with
other equipment to determine if the preamp is outputing the nominal
consumer line level signal. And try some other source (such as a CD
player, etc.) as the source into the M-Audio card to establish whether
that is the problem.

Nothing you have written causes me to believe that there is anything
intrinsicly problematic with the M-Audio card that causes it to be
unsuitable for digitizing vinyl records. You appear to have a level-
setting problem and so far you have not reported doing any of the
recommended tests to establish where the problem lies. Only you can do
this experiment, we cannot guess how your hardware is working, especially
at this distance.

and digital 'burps' in his audio samples (I don't know what that is, and
I doubt if I have these). He also says that that card did a poor
sampling job, compared to his former audio card. All other comments are
positive, but no one else seems to have digitilized vinyls with that
card...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e=1 00&Page=1

Nothing about that comment makes me believe there is anything wrong with
the M-Audio card. It seems quite obvious that the person has not set up
his hardware and/or software properly.

...I propose samples below :

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musiq...Mozart.wav.bz2

If you post files that only Linux users can easily decrypt, then you can
expect answers from only Linux users and there are very very few (if any?)
of them here. You might have better success taking your question over to a
Linux newsgroup. But PLEASE do not cross-post anything from Linux-land to
this newsgroup. The past results are consistently disasterous.

I don't know anything about 'Linux-land', assuming that this is not a
generic word. The files which I have proposed links for downloading, are
fully workable under MSWIN systems, as I have tested myself. 'Audacity',
which is the software I am using for my purpose, is available for MSWIN
operating system ; I even tested it under Windows XP. The only thing I
have mentioned is the uncompressing of bz2 files. I made sure that
'bunzip' existed as MSWIN version, but I am quite aware that not everyone
may have this software on his/her system. For your information and
that of everyone else in this group, I have rightfully purchased the
Windows XP version that I have installed in a partition of my HDs, even
though I only boot on this system maybe once a month or so : this is my
choice, and I have no complain about this. I am in favour of GNU software,
still being fully aware that this would not exist if such commercial work
as that of Microsoft had not existed.

If you or anyone else are willing to test those links, I am quite prepared
to propose other files without compression, so as to avoid installing
weird compressing software.

[Richard Crowley]

"Bernard" wrote ...
If you or anyone else are willing to test those links, I am quite prepared
to propose other files without compression, so as to avoid installing
weird compressing software.

I think it would be a very good idea for you to use a more familiar
file type if you want help from people (most of whom are NOT using
Linux). I was unable to find anything that would decode BZ2 files
under MS Windows.

[Steven Sullivan]

Bernard wrote:
Le Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:07:00 +0100, Peter Larsen a ?crit?:
the first one on the list, and it just happens that the guy purchased that
card for the same purpose as mine, that is, digitilizing vinyl records. He
also found input levels too low, and digital 'burps' in his audio samples
(I don't know what that is, and I doubt if I have these). He also says
that that card did a poor sampling job, compared to his former audio card.
All other comments are positive, but no one else seems to have digitilized
vinyls with that card...

I have. You need a preamp with adjustable gain inline, if you want to
manually raise input level. If you record from a D/A source,
like a CDP or DVDP, you may actually find you have to use a preamp to
LOWER the input gain, to avoid clipping.

Digital 'burps' only occurred for me when there was an IRC conflict with
my PC hardware. In my case it turned out to be a conflict with my
aftermarket wireless network card, which I now disable whenever I need to
record with the 2496. Other causes of digital pops and clicks are noted in
the Troubleshooting faq of the user;s manual. Inadequate DMA buffer size
is one.

The claim that the sampling (I assume he meant A/D conversion) is
inadequate is nonsense. The M-audio 2496 is an excellent card when it and
your system are configured correctly, as Rightmark testing can
demonstrate.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles/maudioaudiophile/

It is not the most user-friendly card by any means, though. You do need
to read the manual. Such as this:

Variable Signal Levels. Here you can choose two volume levels of the
output signal: +2 dBV (Consumer) and -4 dBV (-10 dBV). The level of the
input signal is +2 dBV and can't be changed. It is obvious that for
recording from the linear-in it's necessary to use audio equipment with a
standard linear-out or a recording level controller of the external device
(for example, faders of the audio mixer). H/W 1/2 In in the Monitor Mixer
means that we can monitor a signal and adjust volume of the playback
level, but it doesn't affect a recording level.


--
-S
We have it in our power to begin the world over again - Thomas Paine

[Alan[_3_]]

Bernard wrote:
Hi to Everyone,

Could someone help me managing my new audio card ?

It operates under Debian Linux, but I also tested it under Windows XP,
with same results. The input volume for digitilizing vinyl records is too
low, and I can't enhance it. On the contrary, with my old audio card that
was part of my ASUS motherboard, I was getting to high input volumes and I
had to lower the input to 7 to 13% of the maximum so as to avoid
saturating, such low settings were not in the green area for recording.

Here is what I get with Alsamixer :

Alsamixer v1.0.13
Card: M Audio Audiophile 24/96
Chip: ICE 1712 - multitrack
View: Playback Capture [All]
Item : list follows:

Item: IEC958 set on H/W In 0

Item: IEC958 Multi. Was in 'L CAPTUR R' mode, but I de-activated it, to no
avail. I am not in multichannel mode, only in stereo.

Item: IEC958 Multi 1: same thing

Item: IEC958 1 set to 'H/W In 1'

other options for IEC958 et IEC958 1 were H/W In 2 ... H/W In 7,
IEC958 In L, IEC958 In R, PCM Out, Digital Mixer.

Item: ADC (Analog to Digital Controller ??) set to 55%, dB gain =
-18.5 (in the green area)

Item: ADC1: idem : dB gain=-18.5

Item: ADC Capture. dB gain=-23 (in the green)

Item: ADC1 Capture. dB gain=-23 (in the green)

Item: DAC (Digital to Analog Controller ??) dB gain=-23 idem

Item: DAC Capture -23 dB

Item: DAC1 -23 dB

Item DAC1 Capture -23 dB

Item: Deemphasis. Set to 48 kHz. Other options : 32, 44.1,
OFF

Item: H/W set to H/W In 0

Item: H/W1 set to H/W In 1

other options : H/W In 2, H/W In 3,
... H/W In 7, IEC958 In L, IEC958 In R

Item: H/W Multi L CAPTUR R CAPTUR de-activated

Item: H/W Multi1 L CAPTUR R de-activated

Items: Multi, Multi1, Multi2... Multi9 set to Mute (MM)

Item: Multi Track Internal Clock : 44100

Item: Multi Track Internal Clock Default : 44100

Item: Multi Track Peak 5656

Item: Multi Track Peak 6969 (two homonymous items, same for the next two)

Item: Multi Track Peak. Here a single figure : 69

Item: Multi Track Peak. Same thing, 69

Item: Multi Track Capture. Set to 86, against my will. The green area
starts at 39, but if I rise the setting, it comes back to low values after
restarting 'alsamixer'. True enough, I am not in multichannel mode, so
chances are that this setting is obsolete here.

Items: Third and fourth 'multi track peak'

Item: Multi Track Rate Locking. 2 options : Mute ou 00.

Item: Multi Track Rate Reset: idem

Item: Multi Track Volume Rate : 67


Thanks in advance for comments and advises.

Bernard, you are treading a well worn path. I have been doing what you
describe for a number of years with a moving coil cartridge, NAD PP2 pre
amp and the software levels set at max. Regardless of operating system,
I use my analog mixer between the pre amp and M-Audio card to raise the
level and often to raise the treble slightly.

Best wishes,

Alan.

[Bernard]

My older posts dealt with too low levels for inputs in audacity... I now
got a better RIAA preamp with higher output, and all seemed OK... except
that I now have a vinyl record that gives too high output, and I have
problem recording/digitizing it.

I can't monitor the analog signal input using Audacity. The input comes from a
Cambridge Audio 640 P RIAA preamp, which is fed from a vinyl turntable
Thorens TD 90. The preamp does not have an output setting knob. In audacity,
there is a cursor that allows
to decrease the input... but it does not really work like I would expect,
since the decrease shows only on the spectrogram level, not on the meter
toolbar, which keeps showing same high ratings with some over zero, even
when output setting is set to 0 and the spectrogram is flat. Am I right
to think that, even if the recording level is lowered, the input is still
distorted because of too high levels ?

How am I to lower the volume of the signal fed into Audacity ? I have
achieved nothing trying to play with the sound card control
(envy24control under Linux), and I don't know really how to use it.
Alsamixer has done no better, and, most times what you lower in alsamixer
also gets lowered in envy24control. Here are the settings that I have in
envy24control :

Monitor Inputs panel :

H/W In 1 Left = 58 Right = Mute

H/W In 2 Left = Mute Right = 58

SPDIF In L Mute

SPDIF In R Mute

The H/W In 1 and 2 boxes show green bars that go up and down while the music
plays, sometimes in the red. Moving the cursors up and down to change the
figures does not change anything in the level of green bars in each box,
but it shows changes in the left panel called "digital mixer". The lower
the figure is for each channel, the higher the same channel goes in the
"digital mixer" box. At first I had thought that I should set each
channel to a figure that would allow the green bar in the digital mixer
to go as high as possible without entering the red zone... but I soon
figured out that this had no effect on the input level in audacity nor in
the output of my earphones. I can mute both H/W In 1 and H/W In 2
monitors, and the recording input in Audacity is still at maximum, as
well as output in earphones.

Monitor PCMs panel :

PCM Out 1 is "2" on Left channel, Mute on right channel,

PCM Out 2 is Mute on Left channel, 2 on right

PCM Out 3 to 8 are Mute


Patchbay Router panel :

H/W Out 1 (L) : the check is on H/W In 1

H/W Out 2 (R) : the check is on H/W In 2

SPDIF Out L : the check is on H/W In 1

SPDIF Out R : the check is on H/W In 2


Hardware settings panel :

Master Clock : Int 96000

Rate State : Locked and Reset both checked

Volume Change : Rate 170


Analog Volume panel :

DAC 0 = 87
DAC 1 = 90
ADC 0 = 96
ADC 1 = 96


Thanks in advance for helping me with envy24control settings.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Bernard wrote:

My older posts dealt with too low levels for inputs in audacity...

Again: your levels then were perfect.

I
now
got a better RIAA preamp with higher output, and all seemed OK...
except
that I now have a vinyl record that gives too high output, and I have
problem recording/digitizing it.

You then have to reduce the signal level before the signal enters the
soundcard. Otherwise the sound card will clip. A simple 10 dB attenuator
will do, say 10 kOhm in series and 5 kOhm to ground in a small plastic box.

I can't monitor the analog signal input using Audacity. The input
comes from a Cambridge Audio 640 P RIAA preamp, which is fed from a
vinyl turntable Thorens TD 90. The preamp does not have an output
setting knob.

With grammophone cartridges having their output signals within a 10 dB
window it seems like folly to me not to have an output level adjustment
option, a -5 and -10 dB switch would have been wise design from the
manufacturer ...

Thanks in advance for helping me with envy24control settings.

Forget everything about adjusting the record level after digitizing, it
needs to be adjusted before enters the sound card or the sound card will
clip. Welcome to the simplicity of line level contraptions. Your problem is
partly that the AP2496 is adapted to home audio line levels and partly that
Cambrigde appear to have put extra gain in that RIAA to match the +8 dB
(ref. 0.775 volt) output from a CD-player.

If you need to vent your frustration, then write to Cambridge Audio and ask
them how come they forgot a -5 and -10 dB option on the output of the RIAA
box. It is well warranted to have that since cartridges for 47 kOhm loading
have their out spread within approximately 12 dB.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[David Nebenzahl]

On 7/22/2009 12:13 PM Peter Larsen spake thus:

Bernard wrote:

I now got a better RIAA preamp with higher output, and all seemed
OK... except that I now have a vinyl record that gives too high
output, and I have problem recording/digitizing it.

You then have to reduce the signal level before the signal enters the
soundcard. Otherwise the sound card will clip. A simple 10 dB
attenuator will do, say 10 kOhm in series and 5 kOhm to ground in a
small plastic box.

I'd say better yet would be an adjustable attenuator, which is just a
potentiometer across the output of the preamp with the wiper connected
to the input of the sound card. This is what I use between my sound card
and my amplifier (Technics) which produces a slightly too-high signal. I
use a 50K pot.

Mine fits in a small metal box (like an Altoids tin).


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 7/22/2009 12:13 PM Peter Larsen spake thus:

Bernard wrote:

I now got a better RIAA preamp with higher output, and all seemed
OK... except that I now have a vinyl record that gives too high
output, and I have problem recording/digitizing it.

You then have to reduce the signal level before the signal enters the
soundcard. Otherwise the sound card will clip. A simple 10 dB
attenuator will do, say 10 kOhm in series and 5 kOhm to ground in a
small plastic box.

I'd say better yet would be an adjustable attenuator, which is just a
potentiometer across the output of the preamp with the wiper connected
to the input of the sound card. This is what I use between my sound
card and my amplifier (Technics) which produces a slightly too-high
signal. I use a 50K pot.

There are many ways to do things, but you really should not go higher than
10 kOhm ... otherwise the cable capacity between box and sound card begins
to matter too much. The disadvantages of an adjustable record level in this
context are - with my work process - a lot larger than the advantages.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Arny Krueger]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 7/22/2009 12:13 PM Peter Larsen spake thus:

Bernard wrote:

I now got a better RIAA preamp with higher output, and
all seemed OK... except that I now have a vinyl record
that gives too high output, and I have problem
recording/digitizing it.

You then have to reduce the signal level before the
signal enters the soundcard. Otherwise the sound card
will clip. A simple 10 dB attenuator will do, say 10
kOhm in series and 5 kOhm to ground in a small plastic
box.

I'd say better yet would be an adjustable attenuator,
which is just a potentiometer across the output of the
preamp with the wiper connected to the input of the
sound card. This is what I use between my sound card and
my amplifier (Technics) which produces a slightly
too-high signal. I use a 50K pot.

There are many ways to do things, but you really should
not go higher than 10 kOhm ... otherwise the cable
capacity between box and sound card begins to matter too
much. The disadvantages of an adjustable record level in
this context are - with my work process - a lot larger
than the advantages.

Yes indeed. My standard line-level attenuation pot is a 5K 2 watt RN50 type.

[Geoff]

Peter Larsen wrote:

There are many ways to do things, but you really should not go higher
than 10 kOhm ... otherwise the cable capacity between box and sound
card begins to matter too much.

Not to quibble, but "capacitance"

;-)

geoff