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#81
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
It has developed that many people go to concerts for reasons other
than the music, and the concerts have responded in kind, same as sporting events would go half empty if they relied on only people who pay attention to sports. They go for the same reason they go to a circus or a pro wrestling show, to get away and get stimulated for a while, be with friends while some crazy thing is going on. The little details about the music isn't the selling point of the shows for them, and it doesn't matter if they don't receive them through the din. For better or worse it's sometimes just an opportunity for a good time, forced psuedo excitement via the uber volume notwithstanding. |
#82
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
FatBoySlimFast wrote:
This is a marvelous piece of technical satire. It isn't only Nigel who's ignorant. Most people don't understand what an amplifier actually does, or what happens when you turn the gain control. Yes - at our last gig there was another guy there using the same powered subs as us. He asked before the gig where I usually set the gain control on the sub. The answer was 12 o'clock. Then, after we've finished our set, he comes running over and says "I've got my 'volume' control set at zero and the limiter light is still flashing all the time!" 5 points to the first person who can tell me this guy's occupation ... Would he be one of those new fangled Disk Jockey fellows by any chance? Ron |
#83
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Peter Larsen wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Hmm... I would say that it's the drummer who defines the balance.... everything else is bringing the levels up to match with the drums. Depends on the size of the venue I reckon. Surely there are so many factors, ever gig is different. I`ve done gigs where the drums need a lot of reinforcement, yet the same kit with a different player was far too loud - Only last night at a tech rehearsal, the drummers kit was so unbalanced between the (expensive) snare and the rest of the (cheap) kit, that no amount of damping was sufficient to get the snare in balance with the rest of the band. The temptation is to drag everyone else up to the drummers level, and that`s when it all starts to get out of control. Plus, once it gets above a certain volume, you can`t hear the choir anymore One 'enthusiastic' guitarist can wreck the whole band, likewise a bass player, and some rooms don't lend themselves to loud, some don't work if it`s too soft. It should be the band leader's job to control the individual dynamics, sadly that`s often not the case. It`s all part of the balancing act we do every day/night In many jazz contexts it would help greatly if more drummers used practice kits rather than full kits, I have heard and recorded - with a pair - such an ensemble, Peter Nissens New Orleans Jazz band or whatever they would call themselves. Unfortunately the content of their van got stolen after a concert and the very nice practice kit was lost and he didn't get another one, there is quiote probably not that much money in that niche or he didn't want the risk. I find that in general, proper jazz drummers are the best to deal with, they have, by the very nature of the music, a better understanding of dynamics. Light and shade, dear boy, light and shade (annon) PS at the risk of thread drift. Have you ever noticed how when a drummer turns up with a quirky looking kit, made up of a multicoloured assortment of various tatty ancient drums and cymbals often from different manufacturers, you can usually be sure that he`s going to be a really excellent player with wonderful control and a bit of a character to boot. However, when it`s a brand new looking all matching expensive kit with matching fluffy cases... Ron - Preaching to the choir |
#84
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Phildo wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... All very well but 99% of users don't set it to anything less than is needed to drown out the rest of the world. Simply walking down the street, listening to some Lieder, can require cranking the gain all the way up. Why not just shove screwdrivers into your ears if you want to damage your hearing? You misunderstand his point. He is talking CLASSICAL MUSIC that is actually present on the CD or MP3 at a level of -20 to -30 dB, at least most of the time. You really DO have to turn the iPod volume all the way up if you want to hear the music at all. Not loud, not over traffic noise, just hear the music and follow the tune. Doug McDonald |
#85
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
cjt wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote: FatBoySlimFast wrote: Then, after we've finished our set, he comes running over and says "I've got my 'volume' control set at zero and the limiter light is still flashing all the time!" 5 points to the first person who can tell me this guy's occupation ... Why, live sound engineer, of course. You need to put "engineer" in quotes if you're going to abuse it like that. Isn't an "engineer" the guy who drives a train? |
#86
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
"Don P" wrote in message ... cjt wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: FatBoySlimFast wrote: Then, after we've finished our set, he comes running over and says "I've got my 'volume' control set at zero and the limiter light is still flashing all the time!" 5 points to the first person who can tell me this guy's occupation ... Why, live sound engineer, of course. You need to put "engineer" in quotes if you're going to abuse it like that. Isn't an "engineer" the guy who drives a train? He is also the guy who drove the train wreck George |
#87
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Then, after we've finished our set, he comes running over and says "I've
got my 'volume' control set at zero and the limiter light is still flashing all the time!" 5 points to the first person who can tell me this guy's occupation ... US Director of Homeland Security. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#88
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Then, after we've finished our set, he comes running over and
says "I've got my 'volume' control set at zero and the limiter light is still flashing all the time!" A few years ago I remarked that no profession was so full of people who lacked any real technical understanding of it as recording engineers. My opinion has not changed. |
#89
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
Then, after we've finished our set, he comes running over and says "I've got my 'volume' control set at zero and the limiter light is still flashing all the time!" A few years ago I remarked that no profession was so full of people who lacked any real technical understanding of it as recording engineers. My opinion has not changed. It appears that corporate finance is just as bad. And I can attest that the computer world is now in a similar situation. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#90
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Then, after we've finished our set, he comes running over and says "I've got my 'volume' control set at zero and the limiter light is still flashing all the time!" 5 points to the first person who can tell me this guy's occupation ... US Director of Homeland Security. A good thing I wasn't sipping coffee ... --scott Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#91
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
"Ron" wrote in message
... FatBoySlimFast wrote: 5 points to the first person who can tell me this guy's occupation ... Would he be one of those new fangled Disk Jockey fellows by any chance? Bingo. We have a winner. Please accept your 5 points. If and when our paths cross you can trade these in for beer tokens! Cheers, Steve W |
#92
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Les Cargill wrote:
Dave wrote: On Jul 21, 8:34 pm, Rupert wrote: highest setting of eleven, he responds, "These go to eleven".... "Why not have it still go to 10 but have 10 be louder?" Rupert Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and... Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten? Nigel Tufnel: Exactly. Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder? Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where? Marty DiBergi: I don't know. Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do? Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven. Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder. Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder? Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven. It's been upgraded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwuZePiQHLI -- Les Cargill That's incredibly funny. (paraphrased) It goes to twenty, but I envision music requiring thirty. Purely volume-based. No notes or chords. ---Jeff |
#93
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
thepaulthomas wrote:
Sometimes the bar band's will have a stage volume that alone is over 100dB, which is just downright crazy. Oh, how I love in-ears. You're absolutely right. ---Jeff |
#94
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
On Jul 22, 12:35*pm, thepaulthomas
wrote: And yet whenever I go to a local bar gig for under 300 people I am encountering levels well over 100dB. Sometimes the bar band's will have a stage volume that alone is over 100dB, which is just downright crazy. What people do not realize is that the 100db is now your starting point for the mix volume. You can't have the balanced FOH mix softer than the loudest thing on stage. |
#95
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Arkansan Raider wrote:
thepaulthomas wrote: Sometimes the bar band's will have a stage volume that alone is over 100dB, which is just downright crazy. Oh, how I love in-ears. You're absolutely right. ---Jeff One of the unfortunate side effects of in-ears can be that bands tend to play louder. I`ve witnessed this on several occasions now, and when I tell the band that they are playing far too loud on stage, they are generally amazed. Ron(UK) |
#96
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Infiniti Sound wrote:
On Jul 22, 12:35 pm, thepaulthomas wrote: And yet whenever I go to a local bar gig for under 300 people I am encountering levels well over 100dB. Sometimes the bar band's will have a stage volume that alone is over 100dB, which is just downright crazy. What people do not realize is that the 100db is now your starting point for the mix volume. You can't have the balanced FOH mix softer than the loudest thing on stage. The Eminence Ragin' Cajun is a 100 db @ 1-W-M speakers. Add 18 watts from what is considered a small guitar amp, and you get 112.5 dB - at one meter. R squared puts the mean safe distance at 4 meters for 100 dB again. A Fender Deluxe Reverb is a roughly 18 watt combo amp from the '50s. It's not considered a large amp, and it is capable of generating an over-100-dB soundfield for about 100+ square feet. So it's hard to say this is a new phenomenon. -- Les Cargill |
#97
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Ron wrote:
Arkansan Raider wrote: thepaulthomas wrote: Sometimes the bar band's will have a stage volume that alone is over 100dB, which is just downright crazy. Oh, how I love in-ears. You're absolutely right. ---Jeff One of the unfortunate side effects of in-ears can be that bands tend to play louder. I`ve witnessed this on several occasions now, and when I tell the band that they are playing far too loud on stage, they are generally amazed. Ron(UK) That's a question I'll have to ask our live sound engineer about. I sing with an acappella group, so onstage sound levels have never been all that high--but I wonder if it changes the mix from his perspective. I *have* sung in a rock band environment, and you're right about the 100db thing--it's ridiculous. I don't do it often enough to know about playing louder with in-ears, though. That's pretty wild. ---Jeff |
#98
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
mcdonald wrote ...
You misunderstand his point. He is talking CLASSICAL MUSIC that is actually present on the CD or MP3 at a level of -20 to -30 dB, at least most of the time. You really DO have to turn the iPod volume all the way up if you want to hear the music at all. Not loud, not over traffic noise, just hear the music and follow the tune. Which is why I frequently commit the indiscression of normalizing classical music MP3s to a much tighter range of peaks (per the character of each track) than would be proper for a well-mastered CD. |
#99
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
"FatBoySlimFast" wrote in message o.uk... "Ron" wrote in message ... FatBoySlimFast wrote: 5 points to the first person who can tell me this guy's occupation ... Would he be one of those new fangled Disk Jockey fellows by any chance? Bingo. We have a winner. Please accept your 5 points. If and when our paths cross you can trade these in for beer tokens! Cheers, Steve W Hey can I get in on this? I'll buy the first round.... Beck's Dark for me... |
#100
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... William Sommerwerck wrote: Then, after we've finished our set, he comes running over and says "I've got my 'volume' control set at zero and the limiter light is still flashing all the time!" A few years ago I remarked that no profession was so full of people who lacked any real technical understanding of it as recording engineers. My opinion has not changed. It appears that corporate finance is just as bad. And I can attest that the computer world is now in a similar situation. --scott Yup. Tried to talk to a supposed computer tech the other day, decided to just take the thing back home and do it myself. They crank out these guys with A+ certifications who don't understand anything. |
#101
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
"liquidator" wrote ...
Tried to talk to a supposed computer tech the other day, decided to just take the thing back home and do it myself. They crank out these guys with A+ certifications who don't understand anything. We wouldn't want the idiots to suffer from the low self-esteem that would result from being flunked out of computer repair school. Somewhere along the line here we switched from ensuring equal opportunity to ensuring equal outcome. |
#102
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
A few years ago I remarked that no profession was so full of people who lacked any real technical understanding of it as recording engineers. Naw, we had incompetent live sound engineers long before we had incompetent recording engineers. Today anyone can buy $300 (or $30,000) worth of gear and software and call himself a recording engineer, but that wasn't true 20 years ago. But 20 years ago, a band could buy $10,000 worth of sound gear and the bass player who wasn't good enough yet to play in the band could find the power switch and call himself a live sound engineer. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#103
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Ron wrote:
One of the unfortunate side effects of in-ears can be that bands tend to play louder. I`ve witnessed this on several occasions now, and when I tell the band that they are playing far too loud on stage, they are generally amazed. I wonder why that is. When I go around the NAMM show wearing ear plugs and try to talk to people, they all tell me to speak louder. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#104
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
"Mike Rivers" wrote...
Ron wrote: One of the unfortunate side effects of in-ears can be that bands tend to play louder. I`ve witnessed this on several occasions now, and when I tell the band that they are playing far too loud on stage, they are generally amazed. I wonder why that is. When I go around the NAMM show wearing ear plugs and try to talk to people, they all tell me to speak louder. They're all deaf (from not wearing ear plugs like you)! :-) |
#105
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
liquidator wrote:
Tried to talk to a supposed computer tech the other day, decided to just take the thing back home and do it myself. They crank out these guys with A+ certifications who don't understand anything. The same with plumbers :-) I had to replace the elements in my water heater the other day and, after R'ingTFM had to explain to the guy behind the counter selling them that there were two different elements and not two of the same like he wanted to sell me. He wouldn't believe me. A lot of people get ripped off along the way having to trust these people who have no idea what they're doing. Paul P |
#106
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Arkansan Raider wrote:
Ron wrote: One of the unfortunate side effects of in-ears can be that bands tend to play louder. I`ve witnessed this on several occasions now, and when I tell the band that they are playing far too loud on stage, they are generally amazed. Ron(UK) That's a question I'll have to ask our live sound engineer about. I sing with an acappella group, so onstage sound levels have never been all that high--but I wonder if it changes the mix from his perspective. I would expect for an acappella group, the vocal levels on stage may well be actually quieter due to the phenomenon of many vocalists singing quieter when they can hear a lot of themselves in the monitors. It`s really guitarists who crank up the volume on stage and bleed just what they want into the in-ears. I guess it`s like playing with your fingers in your ears. I still see guitarists playing wearing earplugs! A couple of weeks ago I worked with a drummer who wore headphones - not plugged into anything you understand, just as ear defenders. He wanted huge amounts of _everything_ in his drum wedge. Ron I *have* sung in a rock band environment, and you're right about the 100db thing--it's ridiculous. I don't do it often enough to know about playing louder with in-ears, though. That's pretty wild. |
#107
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:58:35 +0100, Ron
wrote: I would expect for an acappella group, the vocal levels on stage may well be actually quieter due to the phenomenon of many vocalists singing quieter when they can hear a lot of themselves in the monitors. Hardly a phenomenon. Just musicians acting like musicians. They balance to what they hear. I say to sound operators "If I'm too loud, don't turn me down, just put more me in my monitor. Then I'll naturally play softer to maintain the balance." It's sad how many of them find this a novel concept. |
#108
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:58:35 +0100, Ron wrote: I would expect for an acappella group, the vocal levels on stage may well be actually quieter due to the phenomenon of many vocalists singing quieter when they can hear a lot of themselves in the monitors. Hardly a phenomenon. Just musicians acting like musicians. They balance to what they hear. I say to sound operators "If I'm too loud, don't turn me down, just put more me in my monitor. Then I'll naturally play softer to maintain the balance." It's sad how many of them find this a novel concept. In contrast to the guitarists who turn their instrument down to tune, then fail to turn back up to the same level then point at the wedge asking for more guitar in the monitor. Then, next time they tune up, they turn the guitar up more than it was, and 'grimacing' point at the wedge and ask for it to go down! I tell them to set their own monitor volume by using the controls on the instrument, but often this seems like a novel concept to them - And we are talking about quite well known professionals here, not bar room heroes. Ron |
#109
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
"Laurence Payne" wrote in message news On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:58:35 +0100, Ron wrote: I would expect for an acappella group, the vocal levels on stage may well be actually quieter due to the phenomenon of many vocalists singing quieter when they can hear a lot of themselves in the monitors. Hardly a phenomenon. Just musicians acting like musicians. They balance to what they hear. I say to sound operators "If I'm too loud, don't turn me down, just put more me in my monitor. Then I'll naturally play softer to maintain the balance." It's sad how many of them find this a novel concept. and it works about 1 out of 100 times more in the monitor just feeds the volume war as often as I can make it so, I mix monitors with ONLY vocals I also do not give individual mixes to support acts when they understand more keys means the rest of the stage has to be punished with the same obnoxious level, they keep to a more rasonable approach so the other musos don't start beating on him Band, get your sound on stage from your back line, I will add vocals and things without backline support into the monitors works the charm, fast reliable effective and most of all give both the band and the sound op some level of control George |
#110
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:07:04 -0400, "George's Pro Sound Co."
wrote: "Laurence Payne" wrote in message news On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:58:35 +0100, Ron wrote: I would expect for an acappella group, the vocal levels on stage may well be actually quieter due to the phenomenon of many vocalists singing quieter when they can hear a lot of themselves in the monitors. Hardly a phenomenon. Just musicians acting like musicians. They balance to what they hear. I say to sound operators "If I'm too loud, don't turn me down, just put more me in my monitor. Then I'll naturally play softer to maintain the balance." It's sad how many of them find this a novel concept. and it works about 1 out of 100 times more in the monitor just feeds the volume war as often as I can make it so, I mix monitors with ONLY vocals I also do not give individual mixes to support acts when they understand more keys means the rest of the stage has to be punished with the same obnoxious level, they keep to a more rasonable approach so the other musos don't start beating on him Band, get your sound on stage from your back line, I will add vocals and things without backline support into the monitors works the charm, fast reliable effective and most of all give both the band and the sound op some level of control George So set up all the stage monitors so that the band are completely happy with the balance. Once that is done, leave it alone. Finally set up the house mix so the audience hears the right balance. That should be a recipe for a productive sound check. d |
#111
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:26:37 -0400, "George's Pro Sound Co."
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message news:4a6a9736.353976140@localhost... On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:07:04 -0400, "George's Pro Sound Co." wrote: "Laurence Payne" wrote in message news On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:58:35 +0100, Ron wrote: I would expect for an acappella group, the vocal levels on stage may well be actually quieter due to the phenomenon of many vocalists singing quieter when they can hear a lot of themselves in the monitors. Hardly a phenomenon. Just musicians acting like musicians. They balance to what they hear. I say to sound operators "If I'm too loud, don't turn me down, just put more me in my monitor. Then I'll naturally play softer to maintain the balance." It's sad how many of them find this a novel concept. and it works about 1 out of 100 times more in the monitor just feeds the volume war as often as I can make it so, I mix monitors with ONLY vocals I also do not give individual mixes to support acts when they understand more keys means the rest of the stage has to be punished with the same obnoxious level, they keep to a more rasonable approach so the other musos don't start beating on him Band, get your sound on stage from your back line, I will add vocals and things without backline support into the monitors works the charm, fast reliable effective and most of all give both the band and the sound op some level of control George So set up all the stage monitors so that the band are completely happy with the balance. Once that is done, leave it alone. Finally set up the house mix so the audience hears the right balance. That should be a recipe for a productive sound check. d most support acts have no ida what they want in the monitor and it takes about a 1/2 hour to do 4 mixes with musos that can't tell the monitor engineer what they need and at what level I NEVER have a 1/2 hour to get a band on stage, normal is 3 to 4 minutes, you can not do a 4 mix player by player set up esp mixing monitors from house in that time I will have 14 acts across my stage today in 6 hours they will get a dfault even vocal blend and I will add in what ever does not have backline support, as thy are already performing I MUST keep the schedule, actually the schedule is more important than making the band happy, the end of the show is a hard time limit, and I have been scheduled NO TIME between acts George Oh, THOSE sort of shows - my sympathy. The last one I attended was Jeff Beck at the Albert Hall. Everything very leisurely and plenty of setup time for just his band and one support. d |
#112
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:07:04 -0400, "George's Pro Sound Co."
wrote: I would expect for an acappella group, the vocal levels on stage may well be actually quieter due to the phenomenon of many vocalists singing quieter when they can hear a lot of themselves in the monitors. Hardly a phenomenon. Just musicians acting like musicians. They balance to what they hear. I say to sound operators "If I'm too loud, don't turn me down, just put more me in my monitor. Then I'll naturally play softer to maintain the balance." It's sad how many of them find this a novel concept. and it works about 1 out of 100 times more in the monitor just feeds the volume war as often as I can make it so, I mix monitors with ONLY vocals I also do not give individual mixes to support acts when they understand more keys means the rest of the stage has to be punished with the same obnoxious level, they keep to a more rasonable approach so the other musos don't start beating on him Band, get your sound on stage from your back line, I will add vocals and things without backline support into the monitors works the charm, fast reliable effective and most of all give both the band and the sound op some level of control You're talking about a different situation. I'm MD/keyboards in a theatre setup. There is no "back line". All I hear is direct sound plus my monitor. I modify my volume to give a musical balance according to what I hear. How could I not? If a trusted sound operator wants to trick me into playing a bit louder, the best way is to reduce keyboard level in my monitor. But probably what he SHOULD be doing is turning everything else down a bit :-) |
#113
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:26:37 -0400, "George's Pro Sound Co."
wrote: most support acts have no ida what they want in the monitor and it takes about a 1/2 hour to do 4 mixes with musos that can't tell the monitor engineer what they need and at what level I NEVER have a 1/2 hour to get a band on stage, normal is 3 to 4 minutes, you can not do a 4 mix player by player set up esp mixing monitors from house in that time I will have 14 acts across my stage today in 6 hours they will get a dfault even vocal blend and I will add in what ever does not have backline support, as thy are already performing I MUST keep the schedule, actually the schedule is more important than making the band happy, the end of the show is a hard time limit, and I have been scheduled NO TIME between acts Well, it's a living I suppose :-) |
#114
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
In article , Paul P wrote:
The same with plumbers :-) I had to replace the elements in my water heater the other day and, after R'ingTFM had to explain to the guy behind the counter selling them that there were two different elements and not two of the same like he wanted to sell me. He wouldn't believe me. He was not a plumber, he was a sales guy. Last week he was selling furniture. Next week he'll be selling studio monitor speakers. He doesn't know anything about furniture, plumbing, or studio monitors. He knows about sales. A lot of people get ripped off along the way having to trust these people who have no idea what they're doing. Salespeople don't have your best interests at heart, usually. People who think they do invariably wind up on the bad end of things. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#115
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Ron wrote:
Arkansan Raider wrote: Ron wrote: One of the unfortunate side effects of in-ears can be that bands tend to play louder. I`ve witnessed this on several occasions now, and when I tell the band that they are playing far too loud on stage, they are generally amazed. Ron(UK) That's a question I'll have to ask our live sound engineer about. I sing with an acappella group, so onstage sound levels have never been all that high--but I wonder if it changes the mix from his perspective. I would expect for an acappella group, the vocal levels on stage may well be actually quieter due to the phenomenon of many vocalists singing quieter when they can hear a lot of themselves in the monitors. That makes sense. I've noticed a lot less over-singing. It's not usually a problem for me, as I sing bass and *have to be* relaxed. I'm also usually bumped up in the mix, since folks like their bass sounds. Another thing is that, even if the IEM mix isn't right, I can turn down the entire mix and hear myself through my skull structure. One of the things I had to do when we had wedges was to put a foam earplug in one ear so's I didn't have to have my hand to my face all night if the mix was bad. It`s really guitarists who crank up the volume on stage and bleed just what they want into the in-ears. I guess it`s like playing with your fingers in your ears. I still see guitarists playing wearing earplugs! A couple of weeks ago I worked with a drummer who wore headphones - not plugged into anything you understand, just as ear defenders. He wanted huge amounts of _everything_ in his drum wedge. Ron Ugh. No thanks. I've enough hearing loss from factory work a few years back. Don't need any more of that. You're not filling me with a lot of confidence in stepping back out into the rock band arena. I knew it was bad--from my limited experience--but that's *really* bad. ---Jeff |
#116
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
Richard Crowley wrote:
mcdonald wrote ... You misunderstand his point. He is talking CLASSICAL MUSIC that is actually present on the CD or MP3 at a level of -20 to -30 dB, at least most of the time. You really DO have to turn the iPod volume all the way up if you want to hear the music at all. Not loud, not over traffic noise, just hear the music and follow the tune. Which is why I frequently commit the indiscression of normalizing classical music MP3s to a much tighter range of peaks (per the character of each track) than would be proper for a well-mastered CD. When making MP3s from CDs, I do judiciously compress, generally to a point where the level is less than -26 dB no more than 5% of the time. I generally don't do this for MP3s from the internet, as it would require using a higher bitrate to avoid quality loss, but I do if they are hopelessly off. I also renormalize the level as a whole and over tracks ... but on multitrack single works, I normalize the level for individual tracks by 1/2 the distance in dB down from the loudes one, rather than making all tracks the same max level. I use a custom written computer program for this, which has a symmetrical rise and fall time, which is typically set at 2 dB/sec. This is NOT the usual "tamp the level down very very fast, let it rise slow" method. Doug McDonald |
#117
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
On Thu 2037-Jul-23 20:14, Mike Rivers (1:3634/1000) wrote to All:
A few years ago I remarked that no profession was so full of people who lacked any real technical understanding of it as recording engineers. MR Naw, we had incompetent live sound engineers long before we had MR incompetent recording engineers. Today anyone can buy $300 (or MR $30,000) worth of gear and MR software and call himself a recording engineer, but that wasn't true MR 20 years ago. Recording engineers, back when the gear was made by STudor, MCI etc. did their own maintenance, and oftentimes their own customization. Gear lasted 10-20 years with proper care instead of this throw it away software based stuff, five years it's obsolete. IF you didn't know the tech stuff you hired somebody you did, and learned from him/her. MR But 20 years ago, a band could buy $10,000 worth of sound gear and MR the bass player who wasn't good enough yet to play in the band could MR find the power switch MR and call himself a live sound engineer. And the evidence, the smiley face graphic eq curve. Regards, Richard -- | Fidonet: Richard Webb 1:116/901 | Internet: | \\--- Pull YourHead out to reply via email. ---// | via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Sit |
#118
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
On Jul 24, 11:48*am, "mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH
wrote: When making MP3s from CDs, I do judiciously compress, generally to a point where the level is less than -26 dB no more than 5% of the time. I generally don't do this for MP3s from the internet, as it would require using a higher bitrate to avoid quality loss, but I do if they are hopelessly off. I also renormalize the level as a whole and over tracks .... but on multitrack single works, I normalize the level for individual tracks by 1/2 the distance in dB down from the loudes one, rather than making all tracks the same max level. I use a custom written computer program for this, which has a symmetrical rise and fall time, which is typically set at 2 dB/sec. This is NOT the usual "tamp the level down very very fast, let it rise slow" method. Wow. When I want something in my mp3 player,,,I pop it in. : ) |
#119
Posted to rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
dwgriffi wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:48 am, "mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH wrote: When making MP3s from CDs, I do judiciously compress, generally to a point where the level is less than -26 dB no more than 5% of the time. I generally don't do this for MP3s from the internet, as it would require using a higher bitrate to avoid quality loss, but I do if they are hopelessly off. I also renormalize the level as a whole and over tracks ... but on multitrack single works, I normalize the level for individual tracks by 1/2 the distance in dB down from the loudes one, rather than making all tracks the same max level. I use a custom written computer program for this, which has a symmetrical rise and fall time, which is typically set at 2 dB/sec. This is NOT the usual "tamp the level down very very fast, let it rise slow" method. Wow. When I want something in my mp3 player,,,I pop it in. : ) Then what happens when the program level is -30 dB and loud trucks are passing by as you walk along the street? Even full up you can't hear anything at all. Doug McDonald |
#120
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Why is live sound always, always so #^@!%! loud?
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... In article , Paul P wrote: The same with plumbers :-) I had to replace the elements in my water heater the other day and, after R'ingTFM had to explain to the guy behind the counter selling them that there were two different elements and not two of the same like he wanted to sell me. He wouldn't believe me. He was not a plumber, he was a sales guy. Last week he was selling furniture. Next week he'll be selling studio monitor speakers. He doesn't know anything about furniture, plumbing, or studio monitors. He knows about sales. A lot of people get ripped off along the way having to trust these people who have no idea what they're doing. Salespeople don't have your best interests at heart, usually. People who think they do invariably wind up on the bad end of things. --scott Well said...I worked sales for most of the 80's...I offered tech help to the other salesguys, and most guys felt they had no use for it. If you do find a salesperson who cares, treat him/her well. They are a dying breed. |
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