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#1
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
I play some solo and duo acoustic gigs.
I have a 18"x12"x4.5" sealed birch box that I built that I tap on with my foot to create a "kick drum" kind of sound with which to accompany myself. Sticking a SM57 in it (there's a hole in one side) and running it into the PA with some 'verb creates a pretty reasonable sounding kick drum. The problem is that it also picks up just about everything else on the stage too. I was wondering if perhaps a PZM mic would be a better choice for putting inside the box, or if some kind of peizo transducer (like an acoustic guitar under-bridge pickup) would be better. Does anyone have any suggestions besides "buy a Porchboard Bass for $500" or "use a MIDI trigger and a kick pedal and run it into an Alesis D4" or something along those lines? Thanks! CT |
#2
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Charles Thomas wrote: Does anyone have any suggestions besides "buy a Porchboard Bass for $500" or "use a MIDI trigger and a kick pedal and run it into an Alesis D4" or something along those lines? Or, none of the above? Maybe you sound better without it? Rick |
#3
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Charles Thomas wrote:
I play some solo and duo acoustic gigs. I have a 18"x12"x4.5" sealed birch box that I built that I tap on with my foot to create a "kick drum" kind of sound with which to accompany myself. Sticking a SM57 in it (there's a hole in one side) and running it into the PA with some 'verb creates a pretty reasonable sounding kick drum. The problem is that it also picks up just about everything else on the stage too. I was wondering if perhaps a PZM mic would be a better choice for putting inside the box, or if some kind of peizo transducer (like an acoustic guitar under-bridge pickup) would be better. I'm guessing this is essentially making a big Helmholtz resonator-pickup because of mechanical contact with the stage itself. Have you tried any of the little "speaker spikes" the audiophyles sell to isolate speaker boxes? Anything that screws into the box with a point on the other end would probably work. Does anyone have any suggestions besides "buy a Porchboard Bass for $500" or "use a MIDI trigger and a kick pedal and run it into an Alesis D4" or something along those lines? Thanks! CT -- Les Cargill |
#4
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
In article , Rick
wrote: Or, none of the above? Maybe you sound better without it? It never ceases to amaze me what people will take the time to type up and send. CT |
#5
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
In article ,
Les Cargill wrote: I'm guessing this is essentially making a big Helmholtz resonator-pickup because of mechanical contact with the stage itself. Have you tried any of the little "speaker spikes" the audiophyles sell to isolate speaker boxes? Anything that screws into the box with a point on the other end would probably work. I guess I'm not sure what you're talking about. Is this something to mechanically decouple the box from the stage? In my experience stuff transmitted from the stage to the box isn't as much of a problem as that external sound still makes it inside the box and is transmitted to the mic. So a little of my voice and guitar are being picked up along with my foot taps, and it makes for a messy mix along with having the potential for feeding back. That's why I thought maybe a transducer of some kind might be a better choice. I've also never used a PZM mic, and when Melissa Etheridge did her solo tour she put a PZM mic on the stage and stomped on the stage to accompany herself. Hence my line of thinking there. CT |
#6
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
John Hartford had a 4x8' sheet of plywood with a Barcus-Berry pickup in it. He
stood on it and basically tap-danced. Would a contact pickup like that, mounted where you kick it (but on the inside), be a good solution? Charles Thomas wrote: In article , Les Cargill wrote: I'm guessing this is essentially making a big Helmholtz resonator-pickup because of mechanical contact with the stage itself. Have you tried any of the little "speaker spikes" the audiophyles sell to isolate speaker boxes? Anything that screws into the box with a point on the other end would probably work. I guess I'm not sure what you're talking about. Is this something to mechanically decouple the box from the stage? In my experience stuff transmitted from the stage to the box isn't as much of a problem as that external sound still makes it inside the box and is transmitted to the mic. So a little of my voice and guitar are being picked up along with my foot taps, and it makes for a messy mix along with having the potential for feeding back. That's why I thought maybe a transducer of some kind might be a better choice. I've also never used a PZM mic, and when Melissa Etheridge did her solo tour she put a PZM mic on the stage and stomped on the stage to accompany herself. Hence my line of thinking there. CT |
#7
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
In article ,
Steve O'Neill wrote: John Hartford had a 4x8' sheet of plywood with a Barcus-Berry pickup in it. He stood on it and basically tap-danced. Would a contact pickup like that, mounted where you kick it (but on the inside), be a good solution? I was definitely thinking it would, but wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts about it based on experience, or perhaps reasons why it wouldn't work. Thanks for the post. CT |
#8
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Charles Thomas wrote:
In article , Les Cargill wrote: I'm guessing this is essentially making a big Helmholtz resonator-pickup because of mechanical contact with the stage itself. Have you tried any of the little "speaker spikes" the audiophyles sell to isolate speaker boxes? Anything that screws into the box with a point on the other end would probably work. I guess I'm not sure what you're talking about. Is this something to mechanically decouple the box from the stage? Yes. That's not the "everything on the stage" problem? A box onstage is gonna get a lot more energy ( of so I'd think ) from mechanical coupling than acoustic coupling. Or so I'd think. In my experience stuff transmitted from the stage to the box isn't as much of a problem as that external sound still makes it inside the box and is transmitted to the mic. Oh. Ok. Woops. So a little of my voice and guitar are being picked up along with my foot taps, and it makes for a messy mix along with having the potential for feeding back. I bet so. It'd be like having a mic inside a guitar body, which makes for a fine feedback gatherer. That's why I thought maybe a transducer of some kind might be a better choice. I've also never used a PZM mic, and when Melissa Etheridge did her solo tour she put a PZM mic on the stage and stomped on the stage to accompany herself. Hence my line of thinking there. But you can "make" a PZM outta a condenser element taped to the side of the box, so I doubt it'll help that much. Maybe it's a contact pickup/peizo thing? Dunno. CT -- Les Cargill |
#9
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Charles Thomas wrote: It never ceases to amaze me what people will take the time to type up and send. Hey, I'm not in the audience, so I really don't care. I'm just thinking that if I was, that the big "boom" would be a distraction. You left out the obvious choice, which was to skip it. Rick |
#10
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
perhaps a PZM mic would be a better
choice for putting inside the box, or if some kind of peizo transducer (like an acoustic guitar under-bridge pickup) would be better. Does anyone have any suggestions besides "buy a Porchboard Bass for $500" Buy a doumbek for $700? Seriously, though, I'd try the piezo pickup. I'd tend to think a PZM would probably make things worse if that box is pretty tightly fitted together. I'd also experiment with mounting the pickup on both the inside & the outside of the box & see which works best. NeilH |
#11
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Steve O'Neill wrote:
John Hartford had a 4x8' sheet of plywood with a Barcus-Berry pickup in it. He stood on it and basically tap-danced. Would a contact pickup like that, mounted where you kick it (but on the inside), be a good solution? When I saw this post I immediately thought of John Hartford. I saw him about 25 years ago doing the Barcus-Berry on the plywood board thing. I don't remember what it sounded like (I wasn't a recording engineer yet) but I remember being impressed by it. A contact pickup would be cheap so why not try it? As for the boominess from your other attempts, try some thin neoprene rubber between the pickup/mic and the floor. Experiment a little. -- -- John Noll Retromedia Sound Studios Red Bank, NJ 07701 Phone: 732-842-3853 Fax: 732-842-5631 http://www.retromedia.net |
#12
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
NeilH011 wrote:
perhaps a PZM mic would be a better choice for putting inside the box, or if some kind of peizo transducer (like an acoustic guitar under-bridge pickup) would be better. Does anyone have any suggestions besides "buy a Porchboard Bass for $500" Buy a doumbek for $700? Seriously, though, I'd try the piezo pickup. I'd tend to think a PZM would probably make things worse if that box is pretty tightly fitted together. Yeah, and I shoulda said that, too. I'd also experiment with mounting the pickup on both the inside & the outside of the box & see which works best. NeilH -- Les Cargill |
#13
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Rick wrote:
Hey, I'm not in the audience, so I really don't care. I'm just thinking that if I was, that the big "boom" would be a distraction. You left out the obvious choice, which was to skip it. You've never heard of Stompin' Tom Connors. Rob R. |
#14
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
It sounded just like you'd hope - boots tapping plywood! Clear and clean, it
was a great effect. John Noll wrote: When I saw this post I immediately thought of John Hartford. I saw him about 25 years ago doing the Barcus-Berry on the plywood board thing. I don't remember what it sounded like |
#15
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Many thanks to everyone who replied.
I'm going to try to find a pickup on eBay that would work. CT |
#16
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
"Charles Thomas" wrote in
message news:cthomas- The solo acoustic thing is all well and good, but every once in a while a little drum beat keeps things lively. Sure - I remember back in the pre-drum machine days seeing singer/guitarists tapping a foot on a tambourine. It also kept things lively. -- Dave Martin Java Jive Studio Nashville, TN www.javajivestudio.com |
#17
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
In article , Charles
Thomas wrote: I play some solo and duo acoustic gigs. I have a 18"x12"x4.5" sealed birch box that I built that I tap on with my foot to create a "kick drum" kind of sound with which to accompany myself. Sticking a SM57 in it (there's a hole in one side) and running it into the PA with some 'verb creates a pretty reasonable sounding kick drum. The problem is that it also picks up just about everything else on the stage too. I was wondering if perhaps a PZM mic would be a better choice for putting inside the box, or if some kind of peizo transducer (like an acoustic guitar under-bridge pickup) would be better. Does anyone have any suggestions besides "buy a Porchboard Bass for $500" or "use a MIDI trigger and a kick pedal and run it into an Alesis D4" or something along those lines? Thanks! CT How about an 8 inch Radioshak woofer wired backwards as a mic? www.monsterisland.com |
#18
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
you can get a piezo element from a surplus store for $.50. connector
and wire and yer up to $3. there issues will be feedback (the box/pickup system will have a resonance) and the rather unatural sound of the pickup. now you're into some serious eq. . . (at least more than those 3 band eqs on the little mackies). it will definitely help keep acoustic bleed out, and some dampening material inside the box may help tame some of the resonances . . . all the best, c. deckard Charles Thomas wrote in message ... I play some solo and duo acoustic gigs. I have a 18"x12"x4.5" sealed birch box that I built that I tap on with my foot to create a "kick drum" kind of sound with which to accompany myself. Sticking a SM57 in it (there's a hole in one side) and running it into the PA with some 'verb creates a pretty reasonable sounding kick drum. The problem is that it also picks up just about everything else on the stage too. I was wondering if perhaps a PZM mic would be a better choice for putting inside the box, or if some kind of peizo transducer (like an acoustic guitar under-bridge pickup) would be better. Does anyone have any suggestions besides "buy a Porchboard Bass for $500" or "use a MIDI trigger and a kick pedal and run it into an Alesis D4" or something along those lines? Thanks! CT |
#19
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Charles Thomas wrote:
Many thanks to everyone who replied. I'm going to try to find a pickup on eBay that would work. CT FWIW, I think those Pick Up The World things are cheap. -- Les Cargill |
#20
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Les Cargill laid this on me:
Charles Thomas wrote: Many thanks to everyone who replied. I'm going to try to find a pickup on eBay that would work. CT FWIW, I think those Pick Up The World things are cheap. -- Les Cargill and good. (if you define good as 'woody, natural sound') Sean |
#21
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"Foot tap Bass" - Update
As it turns out I actually HAD some piezo pickups, but I didn't know it.
I was unaware that drum triggers are nothing more than piezo pickups, so I tossed one of the drum driggers I wasn't using onto the box. Actually, I routed a holder for it, then screwed the holder to the top of the box where the trigger was held snugly against the top piece of wood. The result has not been very satisfactory. Whereas the microphone gave me a deeper, bass-drum kind of sound the pickup seems to only pickup higher frequencies sounding something like what you'd hear if you rapped your knuckles on a desktop. With some major EQ'ing it might be made to work, but it's not as good as the sound I'd been getting with the microphone. However the ambient noise was reduced significantly. The experimentation continues. CT |
#22
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Les Cargill wrote in message ...
Charles Thomas wrote: In article , Les Cargill wrote: ... Have you tried any of the little "speaker spikes" the audiophyles sell to isolate speaker boxes? Anything that screws into the box with a point on the other end would probably work. Is this something to mechanically decouple the box from the stage? Yes. ... I beg you to consider that you might be mistaken. What comes to my mind from your description of "speaker spikes" are objects intended to cause speakers to transfer some acoustic energy to the hard floor underneath carpet -- quite the opposite of mechanical decoupling. -- Keith W Blackwell |
#24
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"Foot tap Bass" - Update
Charles Thomas wrote:
As it turns out I actually HAD some piezo pickups, but I didn't know it. I was unaware that drum triggers are nothing more than piezo pickups, so I tossed one of the drum driggers I wasn't using onto the box. Actually, I routed a holder for it, then screwed the holder to the top of the box where the trigger was held snugly against the top piece of wood. The result has not been very satisfactory. Whereas the microphone gave me a deeper, bass-drum kind of sound the pickup seems to only pickup higher frequencies sounding something like what you'd hear if you rapped your knuckles on a desktop. With some major EQ'ing it might be made to work, but it's not as good as the sound I'd been getting with the microphone. However the ambient noise was reduced significantly. The experimentation continues. I have no doubt that a piezo element, amplified as one wuld do with a microphone, sounds pretty bad. If you run that piezo into an Alesis D4 or DM5's trigger input, though, and use it to trigger one of the module's kick drum samples, I suspect you will get far better results. -- ================================================== ====================== Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make | two, one and one make one." | - The Who, Bargain |
#25
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Keith W Blackwell wrote:
Les Cargill wrote in message ... Charles Thomas wrote: In article , Les Cargill wrote: ... Have you tried any of the little "speaker spikes" the audiophyles sell to isolate speaker boxes? Anything that screws into the box with a point on the other end would probably work. Is this something to mechanically decouple the box from the stage? Yes. ... I beg you to consider that you might be mistaken. What comes to my mind from your description of "speaker spikes" are objects intended to cause speakers to transfer some acoustic energy to the hard floor underneath carpet -- quite the opposite of mechanical decoupling. No kidding? I stand corrected. -- Keith W Blackwell -- Les Cargill |
#26
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
Jay Kadis wrote:
In article (Keith W Blackwell) writes: Les Cargill wrote in message ... Charles Thomas wrote: In article , Les Cargill wrote: ... Have you tried any of the little "speaker spikes" the audiophyles sell to isolate speaker boxes? Anything that screws into the box with a point on the other end would probably work. Is this something to mechanically decouple the box from the stage? Yes. ... I beg you to consider that you might be mistaken. What comes to my mind from your description of "speaker spikes" are objects intended to cause speakers to transfer some acoustic energy to the hard floor underneath carpet -- quite the opposite of mechanical decoupling. -- Keith W Blackwell Having just wrestled with Sound Anchor stands and spikes, I think the spikes (are supposed to) create an acoustical impedance mismatch that prevent most of the stand vibration from effectively coupling to the floor. This is what I thought, but Keith's post rang very true. Although my experience is that *de*coupling from floors is a Good Thing. Or they could just be a plot by hardwood floor refinishers to drum up business... -Jay -- x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x -- Les Cargill |
#27
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"Foot tap Bass" - Update
The result has not been very satisfactory. Whereas the microphone gave
me a deeper, bass-drum kind of sound the pickup seems to only pickup higher frequencies sounding something like what you'd hear if you rapped your knuckles on a desktop. I have no doubt that a piezo element, amplified as one wuld do with a microphone, sounds pretty bad. If you run that piezo into an Alesis D4 or DM5's trigger input, though, and use it to trigger one of the module's kick drum samples, I suspect you will get far better results. Try out some different piezos. I built a bass-drum like device that used surgical tubing, and used a piezo pickup on it. The tonality varied quite a bit with different pickups. I had a black plastic encased piezo disc that sounded like you describe: more a knocking than a booming. I tried a unencased disc (a ~1" circle of gold metal with the crystal on one side), and it was much better for the bass tone. Very easy to get a satisfactory boom from it. My thought is that the casing on the enclosed sensor had a high frequency resonance in the plastic chamber, which accentuated frequencies I didn't want. The exposed one was better for capturing the low frequencies. They're both a couple of bucks at Radio Shack...and if you're careful, you can dismantle the plastic housing to extract the raw disc. Byron Jacquot |
#28
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
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#29
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
wrote in message
.. . THen there's Patrick Hazel whom many midwesterners have probably seen, with the electric piano and all the blues harps. HE plays a bass drum with one foot, I believe a 24 incher. Regards, You reminded me of a blind guy that used to play in West Texas when I was a kid - he'd play bass with his left hand (Hammering on the strings) drums with his feet and his right hand, a harmonica, and would sing old country songs. It sounded surprisingly good... -- Dave Martin Java Jive Studio Nashville, TN www.javajivestudio.com |
#30
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"Foot tap Bass" - Update
In article ,
Byron G Jacquot wrote: I tried a unencased disc (a ~1" circle of gold metal with the crystal on one side), and it was much better for the bass tone. Very easy to get a satisfactory boom from it. My thought is that the casing on the enclosed sensor had a high frequency resonance in the plastic chamber, which accentuated frequencies I didn't want. The exposed one was better for capturing the low frequencies. They're both a couple of bucks at Radio Shack...and if you're careful, you can dismantle the plastic housing to extract the raw disc. Thanks Byron! CT |
#31
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
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#32
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
On 8-Sep-2003, Charles Thomas wrote: The problem is that it also picks up just about everything else on the stage too. I was wondering if perhaps a PZM mic would be a better choice for putting inside the box, or if some kind of peizo transducer (like an acoustic guitar under-bridge pickup) would be better. Does anyone have any suggestions besides "buy a Porchboard Bass for $500" or "use a MIDI trigger and a kick pedal and run it into an Alesis D4" or something along those lines? Charles: Perhaps you might like to look at the passive SBT pickups at Pick-Up-The-World: http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/ I believe some people have used them for the same purpose as you are interested in. Gordon |
#33
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"Foot tap Bass" - pickup suggestions?
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#34
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"Foot tap Bass" - Update
Those things are fun. I made a simple electric bass with a couple...
http://www.thoughtdog.com/doodlebass.php That's almost exactly the pickup arrangement I used on my surgical tube bass drum, only I've got terrycloth wrapped around the saddle, to cut the sustain back a bit! Byron Jacquot |
#35
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"Foot tap Bass" - Update
In article ,
Byron G Jacquot wrote: http://www.thoughtdog.com/doodlebass.php I can't get this page to load. CT |
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