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#1
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Neumann TLM103D and RCS software
Holy Crap is this a quiet mic!
The channel strip software is pretty neat as well. I'm loading up a 24-bit file to my server in case any one wants to hear it. Look for TLM103dTyFordBilly.wav. It probably won't be up til later tuesday evening. One mic, one pass into PTLE. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Neumann TLM103D and RCS software
Soundhaspriority wrote:
"Ty Ford" wrote in message al.NET... Holy Crap is this a quiet mic! 7dBA. Same as Rode NT2000. It came out well before the Rode arrived. -- ha shut up and play your guitar |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Neumann TLM103D and RCS software
hank alrich wrote:
Soundhaspriority wrote: "Ty Ford" wrote in message al.NET... Holy Crap is this a quiet mic! 7dBA. Same as Rode NT2000. It came out well before the Rode arrived. However, not before the Sennheiser MKH-40 did, and it uses one of the tensioning/equalization tricks that Sennheiser pioneered. The good news about using that trick is that the noise floor can be reduced below what would normally be the theoretical minimum due to Brownian noise for a capsule of a given diameter. The bad news is that it screws the impulse response up a little bit, which on the Sennheisers results in a little lower midrange weirdness and on the TLM-103 causes a problem a little bit higher up. Still, for a lot of things it's worth it. I have not taken apart an NT2000 so I don't know what they are doing there. However, I'll say that I trust the numbers on the Neumann data sheet because they demonstrate how they are derived, and I don't trust the numbers on most manufacturers' data sheets. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#4
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:04:22 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article ): hank alrich wrote: Soundhaspriority wrote: "Ty Ford" wrote in message al.NET... Holy Crap is this a quiet mic! 7dBA. Same as Rode NT2000. It came out well before the Rode arrived. However, not before the Sennheiser MKH-40 did, and it uses one of the tensioning/equalization tricks that Sennheiser pioneered. The good news about using that trick is that the noise floor can be reduced below what would normally be the theoretical minimum due to Brownian noise for a capsule of a given diameter. The bad news is that it screws the impulse response up a little bit, which on the Sennheisers results in a little lower midrange weirdness and on the TLM-103 causes a problem a little bit higher up. Still, for a lot of things it's worth it. I have not taken apart an NT2000 so I don't know what they are doing there. However, I'll say that I trust the numbers on the Neumann data sheet because they demonstrate how they are derived, and I don't trust the numbers on most manufacturers' data sheets. --scott I should have been more explanatory. There is something different about digital mics. I heard it before when beyer put out the MCD 100. For lack of a better explanation; You can hear digital black with these mics. It's not like listening to an analog mic chain. The new audio entrant, not already invested in ots of mics and outboard preamps, can get an mbox, a TLM 103D and/or one of the KM183, 4, 5 D mics and record though the mBox S/PDIF port, bypassing the entire analog front end of the mBox. I sort of did this years a go when I bypassed the Digi 001, 2,3 preamps and A/D conversion with better preamps and A/D conversion. The Neumann RCS software and DMI-2 interface box allow you to store channel strip settings IN THE MIC. The software and hardware allow you to manipulate input level, some EQ, compression, limiting, polarity and all of that data is stored IN THE MIC. You port that right into PTLE, for example, through the S/PDIF port. The more expensive Neumann mics are multi-pattern and you choose the pattern using the RCS software. 19 paterns from omni to figure of eight, I think. The 183, 4, 5 D mics are different than the KM 183, 4, 5 analog series because the D models have a system of interchangeable capsules. You may only need one body. This may be a bad time in the economy to throw a paradigm shift, but there it is. Curiously, I can't get the TLM 103 D to clip right now. Looking into that with Neumann and asking some questions about some of the settings. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Neumann TLM103D and RCS software
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:03:16 -0500, Soundhaspriority wrote
(in article ): "hank alrich" wrote in message ... Soundhaspriority wrote: "Ty Ford" wrote in message al.NET... Holy Crap is this a quiet mic! 7dBA. Same as Rode NT2000. It came out well before the Rode arrived. True. The Rode NT1A has a 5 dBA noise figure. The TLM103 came out well before this Rode arrived too. Bob Morein (310) 237-6511 Wrong ball park entirely. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
Ty Ford wrote:
I should have been more explanatory. There is something different about digital mics. I heard it before when beyer put out the MCD 100. For lack of a better explanation; You can hear digital black with these mics. It's not like listening to an analog mic chain. I have heard digital mikes that were noisy as hell, too. I think what you are hearing is the end result of having the gain structure of the analogue chain PERFECTLY optimized. And I mean absolutely perfectly. This may be a bad time in the economy to throw a paradigm shift, but there it is. Neumann has been pushing this particular shift for quite a few years now with the System-D. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea, but I warn you that when true digital microphones (with actual digital transducers) finally become practical that things are going to change even more. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#8
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
Rick Ruskin wrote:
On 15 Nov 2008 11:44:38 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: Neumann has been pushing this particular shift for quite a few years now with the System-D. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea, but I warn you that when true digital microphones (with actual digital transducers) finally become practical that things are going to change even more. But will this or any change result in any improvement with respect ot the quality of the music being presented to the microphones? That's not my department. Try over in A&R. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
Scott Dorsey wrote:
That's not my department. Try over in A&R. Sorry, they're out to lunch and won't be back until the dinosaurs return. -- ha shut up and play your guitar |
#10
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:01:48 -0500, Rick Ruskin wrote
(in article ): But will this or any change result in any improvement with respect ot the quality of the music being presented to the microphones? Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA http://liondogmusic.com http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin Um, that's a red herring. I thought you guys had salmon up there. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#11
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:07:49 -0500, Soundhaspriority wrote
(in article ): "Ty Ford" wrote in message al.NET... On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:04:22 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote (in article ): hank alrich wrote: Soundhaspriority wrote: [snip] I should have been more explanatory. There is something different about digital mics. I heard it before when beyer put out the MCD 100. For lack of a better explanation; You can hear digital black with these mics. It's not like listening to an analog mic chain. I suspect that is because the gain of the pre internal to the mike is exactly what is necessary, no more. This is necessary to make digital max equal to the maximum SPL the designers intend it to handle. With an external preamp of blameless nature, the gain can be cranked up high enough to amplify the shot noise of the stages internal to the mike. This would also tend to explain why the mike cannot be clipped; the headroom of the internal electronics is precisely matched to the capsule. If the output of the capsule exceeded the range of the A/D, then Neumann would have been forced to lop the stated dynamic range of the mike down from the typical 130-150 to the limit imposed by the A/D. Bob Morein (310) 237-6511 No. The pre-gain and gain of the mic circuit are both variable. I got an email back from Neumann. There's a gain reduction circuit that will prevent accidental overs. I realize that having an unremovable gain reduction circuit (in addition to the separate compressor and limiter) may raise the hackles of some of our folks, but so far, it doesn't seem to be active unless I jack the gain of the mic way past what it should be. When I zoom into those waveforms afterwards, the less abusive ones look nice and rounded on the top. They sound good; much better than the efforts of Aphex's 1100 optical limiter. In fact, they don't really have a sound until you really push the gain reduction quite a bit. With such abusive levels, I can hear the gain reduction, but that's better than hearing digital overs. I'm thinking I'll compare one of my TLM 103 analog mics with the TLM 103D, recording simultaneously, to hear what that sounds like. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#12
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 02:33:02 -0500, Soundhaspriority wrote
(in article ) : 2. A service calibration procedure that quickly regenerates a compensation table internal to the mike. They do have calibration built into the D mics. These are "smart mics" (my feeble term). I don't have the impression that Neumann exploited the potential (yet) in any significant way. Analog cables are not death to fidelity. Bob Morein (310) 237-6511 Well that just sounds snooty, Bob. Especially since you haven't heard them. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#13
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
Soundhaspriority wrote:
This is a true advance. I know of only one comparable limiter: the dual A/D's of the little Sony PCM-D50. I've heard two explanations of how the limiter in the Solution D mics work. One was similar to the one in the Sony PCM-D50, the other one wasn't. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#14
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
Soundhaspriority wrote:
I've heard two explanations of how the limiter in the Solution D mics work. One was similar to the one in the Sony PCM-D50, the other one wasn't. Do you happen to recall the non-Sony explanation? Not specifically. I don't recall anything radical about it, so I guess it was more like a digital limiter. The Sony D-50 limiter isn't a limiter in the conventional sense, it's an automatic fixer-upper. Functionally, what it does is to continuously record the input 10 dB lower in a buffer. When it detects an "over" it takes what's in the buffer, normalizes it to 0 dBFS, and replaces the clipped segment with the one recorded at a lower level. This sounds like it would probably take too long to accomplish so the mic wouldn't be effectively a real time device (which of course we expect it to be). -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#15
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:50:11 -0500, Soundhaspriority wrote
(in article ) : "Ty Ford" wrote in message al.NET... On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 02:33:02 -0500, Soundhaspriority wrote (in article ) : 2. A service calibration procedure that quickly regenerates a compensation table internal to the mike. They do have calibration built into the D mics. These are "smart mics" (my feeble term). I don't have the impression that Neumann exploited the potential (yet) in any significant way. Analog cables are not death to fidelity. Bob Morein (310) 237-6511 Well that just sounds snooty, Bob. Especially since you haven't heard them. Regards, Ty Ford Forgive me. It would be interesting to take a plot to see whether their digital cal smoothes out the mike. Bob Morein (310) 237-6511 forgiven. Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#16
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Neumann TLM103D, DMI-2 and RCS software
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:40:31 -0500, Soundhaspriority wrote
(in article ) : Ty, A very detailed comparison of the MXL2003 with the Neumann TLM103: http://k6jrf.com/FT_Mic1.html Check out the graphs. Quoting from the article, begin quote----------------------------------------- "The PN sweeps are shown in red and aqua. Note the results! 1) The MXL2003 mic is a little 'brighter' from 3Khz on (about +3db). 2) The TLM103 mic is a little 'heavier' from 50hz to 100hz (about +1dB). But the overwhelming results show that BOTH MICS ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL! This makes the decision much easier on which mike to buy! Based on the price ($399 vs $1170), there's really not much question, is there?" end quote------------------------------------------ And as we all know, it's not just about the numbers. ESPECIALLY about EQ curves. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
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