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gperkins151 gperkins151 is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

I have a Yamaha CD (CDC-585) player that can't be more than 6 years
old.

Today it took longer than usual to read a couple of discs and then
started playing them from the middle of the disk!
These discs once played fine on my player and yes, the disc plays fine
on another player.

Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

gperkins151 wrote:
I have a Yamaha CD (CDC-585) player that can't be more than 6 years
old.

Today it took longer than usual to read a couple of discs and then
started playing them from the middle of the disk!
These discs once played fine on my player and yes, the disc plays fine
on another player.

Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?


I dunno, take it a technician and ask him to check it out.

If it's six years old, it's more than overdue for a cleaning and lubrication
of the rails, plus current adjustment of the laser and (depending on the
machine) various tracking adjustments.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


gperkins151 wrote:
Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?


Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.

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gperkins151 gperkins151 is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


Mike Rivers wrote:
gperkins151 wrote:
Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?


Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.


Thanks!

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William Sommerwerck William Sommerwerck is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

Had a similar problem and discovered a faint film, not dust but like
what you get on a car windshield, on the lens. Carefully cleaned it
off and all was well again.


This is worth checking. Mistracking and similar problems are often caused by
reduced laser output.




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Romeo Rondeau Romeo Rondeau is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

Mike Rivers wrote:
gperkins151 wrote:
Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?


Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.


Man, our singer went and picked up a DVD player from Walmart that costs
under $30, we don't usually play music through our PA, but this on club
insists that we do it. Anyway, it has optical and coaxial S/PDIF
outputs, 6 analog outputs for 5.1 surround, component, super video and
composite outputs. How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?
Anyway, since it's got a digital output, I ran it right into the coax
digital input on our live board and it sounded great.
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David Morgan \(MAMS\) David Morgan \(MAMS\) is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message t...
Mike Rivers wrote:
gperkins151 wrote:
Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?


Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.


Man, our singer went and picked up a DVD player from Walmart that costs
under $30, we don't usually play music through our PA, but this on club
insists that we do it. Anyway, it has optical and coaxial S/PDIF
outputs, 6 analog outputs for 5.1 surround, component, super video and
composite outputs. How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?
Anyway, since it's got a digital output, I ran it right into the coax
digital input on our live board and it sounded great.



Given today's CDs, I'm surprised it didn't clip the **** out of it. ;-)


( Combo Hi-Fi VHS player and DVD *recorder* for a friend for X-mas at Frys: $69 )





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Romeo Rondeau Romeo Rondeau is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message t...
Mike Rivers wrote:
gperkins151 wrote:
Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?
Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.

Man, our singer went and picked up a DVD player from Walmart that costs
under $30, we don't usually play music through our PA, but this on club
insists that we do it. Anyway, it has optical and coaxial S/PDIF
outputs, 6 analog outputs for 5.1 surround, component, super video and
composite outputs. How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?
Anyway, since it's got a digital output, I ran it right into the coax
digital input on our live board and it sounded great.



Given today's CDs, I'm surprised it didn't clip the **** out of it. ;-)


Gonna be real hard to clip the **** out of a digital input, unless I'm
really doing something wrong :-)
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David Morgan \(MAMS\) David Morgan \(MAMS\) is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message . net...
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message t...
Mike Rivers wrote:
gperkins151 wrote:
Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?
Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.

Man, our singer went and picked up a DVD player from Walmart that costs
under $30, we don't usually play music through our PA, but this on club
insists that we do it. Anyway, it has optical and coaxial S/PDIF
outputs, 6 analog outputs for 5.1 surround, component, super video and
composite outputs. How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?
Anyway, since it's got a digital output, I ran it right into the coax
digital input on our live board and it sounded great.



Given today's CDs, I'm surprised it didn't clip the **** out of it. ;-)


Gonna be real hard to clip the **** out of a digital input, unless I'm
really doing something wrong :-)



I can't seem to extract a CD into PT (HD7) without clipping.

Perhaps unrelated, but puzzling none the less.


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Romeo Rondeau Romeo Rondeau is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message . net...
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message t...
Mike Rivers wrote:
gperkins151 wrote:
Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?
Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.

Man, our singer went and picked up a DVD player from Walmart that costs
under $30, we don't usually play music through our PA, but this on club
insists that we do it. Anyway, it has optical and coaxial S/PDIF
outputs, 6 analog outputs for 5.1 surround, component, super video and
composite outputs. How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?
Anyway, since it's got a digital output, I ran it right into the coax
digital input on our live board and it sounded great.

Given today's CDs, I'm surprised it didn't clip the **** out of it. ;-)

Gonna be real hard to clip the **** out of a digital input, unless I'm
really doing something wrong :-)



I can't seem to extract a CD into PT (HD7) without clipping.

Perhaps unrelated, but puzzling none the less.


I'm guessing that PT has a more conservative definition of clipping than
the dude that mastered the CD you're trying to rip. Some people consider
1 sample at full scale to be clipping, some consider 3, some others as
much as 5.


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Don Pearce Don Pearce is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 04:55:25 -0600, Romeo Rondeau
wrote:

I'm guessing that PT has a more conservative definition of clipping than
the dude that mastered the CD you're trying to rip. Some people consider
1 sample at full scale to be clipping, some consider 3, some others as
much as 5.


Well, technically speaking one FS sample is just another digital value
- not clipped. Two at FS would be interpolated correctly by the
reconstruction filter, and would not represent a clipped signal. Three
or more would not be correctable, and would be clipping. That assumes
that the original signal was not a flat top, of course.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
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Romeo Rondeau Romeo Rondeau is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

Don Pearce wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 04:55:25 -0600, Romeo Rondeau
wrote:

I'm guessing that PT has a more conservative definition of clipping than
the dude that mastered the CD you're trying to rip. Some people consider
1 sample at full scale to be clipping, some consider 3, some others as
much as 5.


Well, technically speaking one FS sample is just another digital value
- not clipped. Two at FS would be interpolated correctly by the
reconstruction filter, and would not represent a clipped signal. Three
or more would not be correctable, and would be clipping. That assumes
that the original signal was not a flat top, of course.


There's no way of knowing really, and that's the reason there are many
definitions of clipping in the digital realm. I try to keep the largest
peak at -0.1 dB, that way there's no question.
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gperkins151 gperkins151 is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


Scott Dorsey wrote:
gperkins151 wrote:
I have a Yamaha CD (CDC-585) player that can't be more than 6 years
old.

Today it took longer than usual to read a couple of discs and then
started playing them from the middle of the disk!
These discs once played fine on my player and yes, the disc plays fine
on another player.

Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?


I dunno, take it a technician and ask him to check it out.

If it's six years old, it's more than overdue for a cleaning and lubrication
of the rails, plus current adjustment of the laser and (depending on the
machine) various tracking adjustments.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


What does something like that cost? The unit was under $175 originally.
I live in the NYC area, anyone know where I can bring it?

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

gperkins151 wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
gperkins151 wrote:
I have a Yamaha CD (CDC-585) player that can't be more than 6 years
old.

Today it took longer than usual to read a couple of discs and then
started playing them from the middle of the disk!
These discs once played fine on my player and yes, the disc plays fine
on another player.

Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?


I dunno, take it a technician and ask him to check it out.

If it's six years old, it's more than overdue for a cleaning and lubrication
of the rails, plus current adjustment of the laser and (depending on the
machine) various tracking adjustments.


What does something like that cost? The unit was under $175 originally.


It probably costs about as much as the CD player does. This is the
basic issue with consumer electronics: they are cheaper to replace than
to repair, therefore manufacturers no longer have much interest in making
them easy to repair or providing service support.

I live in the NYC area, anyone know where I can bring it?


Not offhand. Do you still have a neighborhood TV repair? That's where
I would start.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


Romeo Rondeau wrote:

How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?


I think they pull a lever and just stamp it in one operation. g One
thing that cuts back on the costs is manufacturing engineering. They
put some time into designing the machinery (that they can re-use) and
get the build cost way down. And when they get it down far enough, they
can push sales way up. And of course by making something that's not
designed to be serviced, they cut way back on technical support and
sustaining engineering.

But then how do they make all the functionality of a multitrack
recorder and mixing console so cheap? Same thing. And if you don't
think they've cut back on tech support costs, just try asking for some.
g



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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

Given today's CDs, I'm surprised it didn't clip the **** out of it. ;-)


Given today's CDs, how could you tell if it was the player that was
clipping? It's not difficult to extract the full dynamic range of a CD
these days. What're we talking about? Maybe 6 dB? And since most
consumer electronics has a maximum output level of around 3 volts RMS,
that's not hard to do either. Given the nature of "full scale digital"
it's easy to predict the absolute maximum level coming out of the D/A
converter and design so that the analog circuity doesn't clip.

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Les Cargill Les Cargill is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message . net...

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message t...

Mike Rivers wrote:

gperkins151 wrote:

Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?

Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.


Man, our singer went and picked up a DVD player from Walmart that costs
under $30, we don't usually play music through our PA, but this on club
insists that we do it. Anyway, it has optical and coaxial S/PDIF
outputs, 6 analog outputs for 5.1 surround, component, super video and
composite outputs. How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?
Anyway, since it's got a digital output, I ran it right into the coax
digital input on our live board and it sounded great.


Given today's CDs, I'm surprised it didn't clip the **** out of it. ;-)


Gonna be real hard to clip the **** out of a digital input, unless I'm
really doing something wrong :-)




I can't seem to extract a CD into PT (HD7) without clipping.

Perhaps unrelated, but puzzling none the less.



There's nothing like Exact Aduio Copy available there?

--
Les Cargill
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Les Cargill Les Cargill is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

Mike Rivers wrote:

gperkins151 wrote:

Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?



Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.


Man, our singer went and picked up a DVD player from Walmart that costs
under $30, we don't usually play music through our PA, but this on club
insists that we do it. Anyway, it has optical and coaxial S/PDIF
outputs, 6 analog outputs for 5.1 surround, component, super video and
composite outputs. How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?


They probably don't make it that cheap. You're just getting
it that cheap. But still, it's usually an ASIC and a couple
general-purpose processors in there with a little firmware.

Stuff's gotten small enough that they're practically
printed, not manufactured.

Anyway, since it's got a digital output, I ran it right into the coax
digital input on our live board and it sounded great.


--
Les Cargill
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David Morgan \(MAMS\) David Morgan \(MAMS\) is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


"Les Cargill" wrote in message ...
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message . net...

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message t...

Mike Rivers wrote:

gperkins151 wrote:

Does this mean my CD player will soon stop functioning?

Yes. **** breaks. And what really ****es you off is that when you
bought it it cost a lot of money and today you can replace it with
something that works and sounds better and costs 10% of what you paid
for the first one. But take heart. It will break sooner.

Buy a new DVD player for $29 and enjoy the versatility and crappy user
interface.


Man, our singer went and picked up a DVD player from Walmart that costs
under $30, we don't usually play music through our PA, but this on club
insists that we do it. Anyway, it has optical and coaxial S/PDIF
outputs, 6 analog outputs for 5.1 surround, component, super video and
composite outputs. How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?
Anyway, since it's got a digital output, I ran it right into the coax
digital input on our live board and it sounded great.


Given today's CDs, I'm surprised it didn't clip the **** out of it. ;-)

Gonna be real hard to clip the **** out of a digital input, unless I'm
really doing something wrong :-)




I can't seem to extract a CD into PT (HD7) without clipping.

Perhaps unrelated, but puzzling none the less.



There's nothing like Exact Aduio Copy available there?



These guys had to twist my arm 4 years ago to move off of tape machines
and onto Pro Tools. With a DVD drive and PTHD sitting there, why throw
another piece of software into the fray? It *is* a bitch have imported stereo
music trax be the only continual red lights in a project.








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David Morgan \(MAMS\) David Morgan \(MAMS\) is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ups.com...

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

Given today's CDs, I'm surprised it didn't clip the **** out of it. ;-)


Given today's CDs, how could you tell if it was the player that was
clipping?


It's a high-dollar external firewire DVD drive extracting directly to the G-5 and PTHD7.

It's not difficult to extract the full dynamic range of a CD
these days. What're we talking about? Maybe 6 dB? And since most
consumer electronics has a maximum output level of around 3 volts RMS,
that's not hard to do either. Given the nature of "full scale digital"
it's easy to predict the absolute maximum level coming out of the D/A
converter and design so that the analog circuity doesn't clip.


Shouldn't be (as Romeo noted) anything analogue about this path at all.
And having a 16/44.1 CD extracted to a 24 bit PT file in a serious state
of repetitive clip is just a nuisance to look at. I can't really hear it, and
if I get into the waveform, it's hardly obvious at all.... except for those sucky
red lights.

No one in the building can explain it any better than Romeo when he said that
PT probably just has an "idiot protection" sensitivity.




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Romeo Rondeau Romeo Rondeau is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


It's not difficult to extract the full dynamic range of a CD
these days. What're we talking about? Maybe 6 dB? And since most
consumer electronics has a maximum output level of around 3 volts RMS,
that's not hard to do either. Given the nature of "full scale digital"
it's easy to predict the absolute maximum level coming out of the D/A
converter and design so that the analog circuity doesn't clip.


Shouldn't be (as Romeo noted) anything analogue about this path at all.
And having a 16/44.1 CD extracted to a 24 bit PT file in a serious state
of repetitive clip is just a nuisance to look at. I can't really hear it, and
if I get into the waveform, it's hardly obvious at all.... except for those sucky
red lights.

No one in the building can explain it any better than Romeo when he said that
PT probably just has an "idiot protection" sensitivity.


And when you think about it, just 1 sample at full digital scale is more
than likely a clip. As a matter of fact, at 16-bits, there's only a 1 in
32,768 chance that it's NOT a clip (a negative clip is just as bad) :-)
I'll take those odds and my guess is that ProTools does as well :-)
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Michael R. Kesti Michael R. Kesti is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly

Mike Rivers wrote:

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

How the hell can they make this stuff so cheap?


I think they pull a lever and just stamp it in one operation. g One
thing that cuts back on the costs is manufacturing engineering. They
put some time into designing the machinery (that they can re-use) and
get the build cost way down. And when they get it down far enough, they
can push sales way up. And of course by making something that's not
designed to be serviced, they cut way back on technical support and
sustaining engineering.

But then how do they make all the functionality of a multitrack
recorder and mixing console so cheap? Same thing. And if you don't
think they've cut back on tech support costs, just try asking for some.
g


I agree with most of the above (the lever pulling and stamping being the
execeptions ;-) but there are other factors, too. To really get costs
low, however, one must manufacture "off shore" which is a euphanism for
"in countries that burden manufacturers with little to no environmental
regulations and have millions of people willing to work for very small
fractions of the pay and benefits that the consumers of these goods enjoy."

Another fctor is that the corproations behind these manufacturing operations
realize that the real money is in the sale of media for these products and
are therefore willing to sell the latter at little or no profit.

There are probably other factors, too.

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mrkesti at hotmail dot com | - The Who, Bargain
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default CD player not functioning properly


Michael R. Kesti wrote:

Another fctor is that the corproations behind these manufacturing operations
realize that the real money is in the sale of media for these products and
are therefore willing to sell the latter at little or no profit.


It's been a long time since any significant money has been made selling
CD blanks, but printer ink cartridges seem to be doing well (as is
cellular phone service).

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Michael R. Kesti Michael R. Kesti is offline
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Mike Rivers wrote:

Michael R. Kesti wrote:

Another fctor is that the corproations behind these manufacturing operations
realize that the real money is in the sale of media for these products and
are therefore willing to sell the latter at little or no profit.


It's been a long time since any significant money has been made selling
CD blanks, but printer ink cartridges seem to be doing well (as is
cellular phone service).


I was referring to prerecorded media, i.e., movies for DVD players and
"albums" for CD players. Many (most?) of the companies that market home
entertainment products are also in the production and distribution
businesses.

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mrkesti at hotmail dot com | - The Who, Bargain
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