paul packer said:

A certain masochism you mean. Why would anyone want to continually
repeat the effort of sychronising a gear lever and clutch pedal at
every stop light and corner when they can simply accelerate away
without hassle?

If you don't already know, it's impossible to get through to you. Sorry.

Non answer noted.

Stop pretending to be feeble-minded.

It's common knowledge that excessive parodying of Krooglish can be
dangerous. Are you trying to discover the safety limit of parodying
Kroologic?

No, this is Packer logic and it happens to be infallible. If Arnie
could do as well as this, he wouldn't be Arnie. :-)

How can I explain this simple matter in a way even paulie can understand? First,
a caveat: You won't find the key in your bible. Personal choice is pretty much
the opposite of christian dogma.

From a higher distance... An example for u: I don't appreciate certain movie
genres. I watched "Terms of Endearment" but I thought it was overwrought and
tedious. I diligently avoided any exposure to "Steel Magnolias" and "Ya Ya
Sisterhood". I did enjoy the "Terminator" films though, as well as "Fight Club"
and the "Indiana Jones" series. I know some people disparage those movies
because of their depictions of violence. Clearly they're out of synch with the
best taste. :-)

Now about your phobia of shifting.... I can't help you understand what you're
not disposed to see. I also note that you hate turntables. I see a correlation
there. You probably hate to cook too, right? If nobody at home will cook your
meals, it's a certainty you go out to eat.

Sorry, paulie. Stick shifts are for liberals.



..
..

I have owned both stick and automatic cars. in fact, I've converted
cars that were originally one to the other, both ways.

A well set up slushbox is the only way to go in stop and go traffic if
you are going to have to deal with it every day. And they are good for
towing as well. But a good five (or six) speed is about 50% of what
makes a good sports car good.

Horses for courses.

On 10 Nov 2005 07:05:45 -0800, George Middius
wrote:



paul packer said:

A certain masochism you mean. Why would anyone want to continually
repeat the effort of sychronising a gear lever and clutch pedal at
every stop light and corner when they can simply accelerate away
without hassle?

If you don't already know, it's impossible to get through to you. Sorry.

Non answer noted.

Stop pretending to be feeble-minded.

It's common knowledge that excessive parodying of Krooglish can be
dangerous. Are you trying to discover the safety limit of parodying
Kroologic?

No, this is Packer logic and it happens to be infallible. If Arnie
could do as well as this, he wouldn't be Arnie. :-)

How can I explain this simple matter in a way even paulie can understand?

I thought you just said I was "pretending" to be feeble minded. Make
up your mind, George.

First, a caveat: You won't find the key in your bible. Personal choice is pretty much
the opposite of christian dogma.

As I understand it, Christian dogma has everything to do with personal
choice. But of course, you may have a different Bible altogether. The
Liberal's Bible, with no Commandments in it.

From a higher distance... An example for u: I don't appreciate certain movie
genres. I watched "Terms of Endearment" but I thought it was overwrought and
tedious. I diligently avoided any exposure to "Steel Magnolias" and "Ya Ya
Sisterhood". I did enjoy the "Terminator" films though, as well as "Fight Club"
and the "Indiana Jones" series. I know some people disparage those movies
because of their depictions of violence. Clearly they're out of synch with the
best taste. :-)

So you're saying you're a big bad "bloke", as we call them in OZ. A
real he-man. I thought they were mostly illiterate.

Now about your phobia of shifting.... I can't help you understand what you're
not disposed to see. I also note that you hate turntables. I see a correlation
there.

So do I. It means I don't see the point of effort that yields no
result. Get with the program, George.

You probably hate to cook too, right? If nobody at home will cook your
meals, it's a certainty you go out to eat.

I can cook and do so frequent. Cooking is gender neutral. It's an
effort that yields a result, unlike stick-shifting.

Sorry, paulie. Stick shifts are for liberals.

Stick shifts are for gooses...er, geese.

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:14:32 +1100, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:


Nah, the idiots buy either. Maybe it's just the young male rev head subgroup
you are referring to?

MrT.

Pretty much. I read a Magna auto forum, and despite the fact that most
Magnas are auto, most of the forum posters have manual and diss autos.
Needless to say they're mostly young males, as one can tell by the
grammar and spelling. Sad.....

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:03:57 +1100, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:



However, forget all this. I think we should be talking about minidisc
players.... :-)

Not those bloody things again!!! :-)

I thought you'd be pleased. :-)

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
I've never known anyone with a failed manual box.

I know someone who went through 3 clutches in 50,000km. *HE* should have
bought an automatic :-)

You probably have a point there.

In my entire driving life of some 30 yrs I've only ever had to have one
clutch plate replaced ( or in fact any clutch servicing at all ) and that
was on a car that had already covered a lot of miles.

It's quite simple and fairly inexpensive btw.

Graham

"paul packer" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:03:57 +1100, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:

However, forget all this. I think we should be talking about
minidisc players.... :-)

Not those bloody things again!!! :-)

I thought you'd be pleased. :-)

Despite having vowed to never post on this newsgroup again, I just can't
help jumping into the MD fray :-).
I recently bought the XRLP 45rpm versions of two TBM recordings that I
already had on both XRLP 180 gram vinyl & XRCD.
I played them all (2 X 45rpm LP's per single 33rpm LP) recording them on MD
whilst listening. Not a single snap, crackle or pop to be heard. Then I
played the same tracks (3 off) on each medium, vis. CD, 33rpm vinyl, 45rpm
vinyl & MD.
If I said I could POSITIVELY hear any difference, I'd be lying. However, I
THOUGHT that the 45rpm tracks MIGHT have slightly better dynamics and more
bass extension than any of the other media, but this being an entirely
subjective comparison, I may well be mistaken.

Eiron wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:

I imagine you're not keen on 'sporty 'driving then.

It's nice to be able to hold a gear to the rev limit. Esp with a turbo! ;-)

And get overtaken by an identical car whose driver knows when to change. :-)

What does the word 'overtaken' mean ? ;-)

Sorry - can't relate to that.

Graham

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
In my entire driving life of some 30 yrs I've only ever had to have one
clutch plate replaced ( or in fact any clutch servicing at all ) and that
was on a car that had already covered a lot of miles.

Never had to do any myself.

It's quite simple and fairly inexpensive btw.

Not always.

MrT.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:54:50 +0000, Pooh Bear
wrote:


"Mr.T" wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
I've never known anyone with a failed manual box.

I know someone who went through 3 clutches in 50,000km. *HE* should have
bought an automatic :-)

You probably have a point there.

In my entire driving life of some 30 yrs I've only ever had to have one
clutch plate replaced ( or in fact any clutch servicing at all ) and that
was on a car that had already covered a lot of miles.

It's quite simple and fairly inexpensive btw.

Graham

Well, my last 3 cars have been autos. First had 147,000 ks when I
bought it. Drove it 83,000 ks and never had anything done to the
transmission. Second one had 82,000ks and I drove it 35,000 ks, never
had anything done to the transmission. Present one had 127,000 ks but
I've only driven it 15,000 ks so far. Should I expect trouble with the
transmission? Not based on experience, no.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:48:40 +1100, "roughplanet"
wrote:


Despite having vowed to never post on this newsgroup again, I just can't
help jumping into the MD fray :-).
I recently bought the XRLP 45rpm versions of two TBM recordings that I
already had on both XRLP 180 gram vinyl & XRCD.
I played them all (2 X 45rpm LP's per single 33rpm LP) recording them on MD
whilst listening. Not a single snap, crackle or pop to be heard. Then I
played the same tracks (3 off) on each medium, vis. CD, 33rpm vinyl, 45rpm
vinyl & MD.
If I said I could POSITIVELY hear any difference, I'd be lying. However, I
THOUGHT that the 45rpm tracks MIGHT have slightly better dynamics and more
bass extension than any of the other media, but this being an entirely
subjective comparison, I may well be mistaken.

Well, as I always warn you when you post these comparisons, don't let
Mr. T know as it may affect his anti-MD bias. We have to protect
people from the truth. :-)

Iain M Churches wrote:
"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
news
"Bret Ludwig" said:

While it's absolutely true that solid state equipment can be sonically
as well as measurably excellent, and equally true that there are many
serious audiophiles (and not counting the obtuse, such as Ferstler,
Aczel, Slone, and yourself) that believe solid state is wholly superior
and have little use for tube gear, it's obvious most _audiophiles_
accept that many tube-based units are among the better sounding
available and a reasonable number who prefer them exclusively or
substantially. That is not to say most audiophiles buy tube gear: many
do not because of perceived or actual cost, maintenance, or safety
issues. But probably less than ten to fifteen percent of serious
audiophiles would state that tube equipment is without merit and that
solid state was absolutely and wholly superior.



Tube amplifiers were, are, and should be, the domain of the DIY-er.

Indeed. They need a little TLC now and again, but are well worth the
attention. Audio has now become a passive hobby. Not many of us
bother with the soldering iron. Those that do seem to enjoy building
with tubes.

This notion of audio as a hobby puzzles me. Surely listening to music
being reproduced , by whatever means, is the purpose of the audio
industry? I've often suspected it's the gadgets and not what they
reproduce that's the exclusive focus of interest for many audiophiles.
Iain, I hope your not one of these.
I suggest you don't answer that here, but I'd love to know what you
think over on the clunky, contentless, 'looks like a Bangkok brothel' (
how do these people know these things?) forum at :-
http://www.wga.plt-hosting.com/register.php?do=signup

paul packer said:

Stop pretending to be feeble-minded.

I meant that at the time I said it.

It's common knowledge that excessive parodying of Krooglish can be
dangerous. Are you trying to discover the safety limit of parodying
Kroologic?

No, this is Packer logic and it happens to be infallible. If Arnie
could do as well as this, he wouldn't be Arnie. :-)

How can I explain this simple matter in a way even paulie can understand?

I thought you just said I was "pretending" to be feeble minded. Make
up your mind, George.

OK, you've convinced me you're really as obtuse as you're letting on. I
thought you were putting us on with the dumb-as-a-bag-of-hair shtick,
but now I see I was mistaken.

First, a caveat: You won't find the key in your bible. Personal choice is pretty much
the opposite of christian dogma.

As I understand it, Christian dogma has everything to do with personal
choice. But of course, you may have a different Bible altogether. The
Liberal's Bible, with no Commandments in it.

You can be witty about politics and your beloved bible, but you have
absolutely no clue why some people like stick shifts? Seems incongruous
to me.

From a higher distance... An example for u: I don't appreciate certain movie
genres. I watched "Terms of Endearment" but I thought it was overwrought and
tedious. I diligently avoided any exposure to "Steel Magnolias" and "Ya Ya
Sisterhood". I did enjoy the "Terminator" films though, as well as "Fight Club"
and the "Indiana Jones" series. I know some people disparage those movies
because of their depictions of violence. Clearly they're out of synch with the
best taste. :-)

So you're saying you're a big bad "bloke", as we call them in OZ. A
real he-man. I thought they were mostly illiterate.

Uh.... what? Come again? Where'd you get that?

What I actually meant, for the more obtuse among the conversants, is
that I like escapist movies with action and adventure and I don't like
talky, feelings-oriented tearjerkers. Sheesh.

The point being is that it's a matter of taste, preference, choice...
know what I mean? (This is the part where you run and get your bible to
find out if it's immoral to choose one offering over another.)

Now about your phobia of shifting.... I can't help you understand what you're
not disposed to see. I also note that you hate turntables. I see a correlation
there.

So do I. It means I don't see the point of effort that yields no
result. Get with the program, George.

It's my program and I'm not sharing.

You probably hate to cook too, right? If nobody at home will cook your
meals, it's a certainty you go out to eat.

I can cook and do so frequent. Cooking is gender neutral. It's an
effort that yields a result, unlike stick-shifting.

Funny, I'd have thought you see cooking as a needless chore that you can
offload to a willing service provider. Less effort, same result -- food
on the plate.

Sorry, paulie. Stick shifts are for liberals.

Stick shifts are for gooses...er, geese.

Good one. Fortunately, making sense is not essential when you're deep in
the trenches of unthinking prejudice.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u
"Pooh Bear"
wrote in message ...
In my entire driving life of some 30 yrs I've only ever
had to have one clutch plate replaced ( or in fact any
clutch servicing at all ) and that was on a car that had
already covered a lot of miles.

Never had to do any myself.

It's quite simple and fairly inexpensive btw.

Easy enough in a rear wheel drive compact-sized car. Undo a
few linkages, remove a few bolts and slide the transmission
and bell housing back while lying under it and supporting it
with your torso....

Not always.

Can we all say: "Front Wheel Drive". :-(

Ayn Marx wrote:
snip

This notion of audio as a hobby puzzles me. Surely listening to music
being reproduced , by whatever means, is the purpose of the audio
industry? I've often suspected it's the gadgets and not what they
reproduce that's the exclusive focus of interest for many audiophiles.
Iain, I hope your not one of these.

"Music lovers" are to a man content with mid-fi. Audio people may like
music but it is in fact secondary, sound effects are equally good, the
point is the technical challenge of reproduction and the fun of
building, modifying, restoring. This is a _technical hobby_. You just
want music, go to Best Buy.

"Ayn Marx" wrote in message

This notion of audio as a hobby puzzles me. Surely
listening to music being reproduced , by whatever means,
is the purpose of the audio industry?

The audio industry includes both production, distribution,
and reproduction. It includes reproduction of music as well
as other sounds, both natural and artificial. So the audio
industry is not limited to just listening to music.

I've often
suspected it's the gadgets and not what they reproduce
that's the exclusive focus of interest for many
audiophiles.

The phrase "gear slut", comes to mind.

I long ago learned that true lovers of music often consider
Audio equipment to be fairly low priority. This is
especially true of musicians.

A true music lover might reasonably be content with mid-fi
or less.

"Arny Krueger" said:


The phrase "gear slut", comes to mind.


And proudly so, you will note.
For me, the audio hobby is two-fold: designing and building stuff, and
listening to music after the gear is finished.

Double fun!

Who renamed this group rec.music.opinion, BTW?

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

In article .com,
"Bret Ludwig" wrote:

Ayn Marx wrote:
snip

This notion of audio as a hobby puzzles me. Surely listening to music
being reproduced , by whatever means, is the purpose of the audio
industry? I've often suspected it's the gadgets and not what they
reproduce that's the exclusive focus of interest for many audiophiles.
Iain, I hope your not one of these.

"Music lovers" are to a man content with mid-fi.

No, not really. There are plenty of exceptions to that, such as myself.

Audio people may like
music but it is in fact secondary, sound effects are equally good, the
point is the technical challenge of reproduction and the fun of
building, modifying, restoring. This is a _technical hobby_. You just
want music, go to Best Buy.

I "just want music" but not that kind that is reproduced by stuff at
Best Buy.

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Ayn Marx" wrote in message

This notion of audio as a hobby puzzles me. Surely
listening to music being reproduced , by whatever means,
is the purpose of the audio industry?

The audio industry includes both production, distribution,
and reproduction. It includes reproduction of music as well
as other sounds, both natural and artificial. So the audio
industry is not limited to just listening to music.

I've often
suspected it's the gadgets and not what they reproduce
that's the exclusive focus of interest for many
audiophiles.

The phrase "gear slut", comes to mind.

I long ago learned that true lovers of music often consider
Audio equipment to be fairly low priority. This is
especially true of musicians.

A true music lover might reasonably be content with mid-fi
or less.

Sometimes true, but there are many, many exceptions, including me. And
Frederick Fennell, and Peter Yarrow, and Michael Tilson Thomas, and
Marin Alsop, and many more.

In article .com,
"Bret Ludwig" wrote:

Ayn Marx wrote:
snip

This notion of audio as a hobby puzzles me. Surely listening to music
being reproduced , by whatever means, is the purpose of the audio
industry? I've often suspected it's the gadgets and not what they
reproduce that's the exclusive focus of interest for many audiophiles.
Iain, I hope your not one of these.

"Music lovers" are to a man content with mid-fi.

No, not really. There are plenty of exceptions to that, such as
myself.

Audio people may like
music but it is in fact secondary, sound effects are equally good, the
point is the technical challenge of reproduction and the fun of
building, modifying, restoring. This is a _technical hobby_. You just
want music, go to Best Buy.

I "just want music" but not that kind that is reproduced by stuff at
Best Buy.

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Ayn Marx" wrote in message

This notion of audio as a hobby puzzles me. Surely
listening to music being reproduced , by whatever means,
is the purpose of the audio industry?

The audio industry includes both production, distribution,
and reproduction. It includes reproduction of music as well
as other sounds, both natural and artificial. So the audio
industry is not limited to just listening to music.

I've often
suspected it's the gadgets and not what they reproduce
that's the exclusive focus of interest for many
audiophiles.

The phrase "gear slut", comes to mind.

I long ago learned that true lovers of music often consider
Audio equipment to be fairly low priority. This is
especially true of musicians.

A true music lover might reasonably be content with mid-fi
or less.

Sometimes true, but there are many, many exceptions, including me.
And
Frederick Fennell, and Peter Yarrow, and Michael Tilson Thomas, and
Marin Alsop, and many more.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u
"Pooh Bear"
It's quite simple and fairly inexpensive btw.

Easy enough in a rear wheel drive compact-sized car.

Not many of those being made today though. But its no big deal in most
larger rear wheel drive cars either.

Not always.

Can we all say: "Front Wheel Drive". :-(

Exactly. Some don't make you remove the engine, but others....... :-(

MrT.

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
Well, my last 3 cars have been autos. First had 147,000 ks when I
bought it. Drove it 83,000 ks and never had anything done to the
transmission. Second one had 82,000ks and I drove it 35,000 ks, never
had anything done to the transmission. Present one had 127,000 ks but
I've only driven it 15,000 ks so far. Should I expect trouble with the
transmission? Not based on experience, no.

I know someone with a Mazda 626 auto that has done 350,000 km with no
transmission repairs yet. Would I want it? Hell no. I once owned the same
model with a 5 speed manual though. 220,000 km with no problems. Same with
my present car. Most of your cars have done too few miles to make any
generalisations.

MrT.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u
"Pooh Bear"
It's quite simple and fairly inexpensive btw.

Easy enough in a rear wheel drive compact-sized car.

Not many of those being made today though. But its no big deal in most
larger rear wheel drive cars either.

Not always.

Can we all say: "Front Wheel Drive". :-(

Exactly. Some don't make you remove the engine, but others....... :-(

MrT.

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
Well, as I always warn you when you post these comparisons, don't let
Mr. T know as it may affect his anti-MD bias. We have to protect
people from the truth. :-)

You are still under the misapprehension that the vast majority of the worlds
population, including me, gives a rats about MD.
I know you wish they did for some reason, but it's time to face facts, a few
people are only a *minute* exception.

MrT.

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
Well, my last 3 cars have been autos. First had 147,000 ks when I
bought it. Drove it 83,000 ks and never had anything done to the
transmission. Second one had 82,000ks and I drove it 35,000 ks, never
had anything done to the transmission. Present one had 127,000 ks but
I've only driven it 15,000 ks so far. Should I expect trouble with the
transmission? Not based on experience, no.

I know someone with a Mazda 626 auto that has done 350,000 km with no
transmission repairs yet. Would I want it? Hell no. I once owned the
same
model with a 5 speed manual though. 220,000 km with no problems. Same
with
my present car. Most of your cars have done too few miles to make any
generalisations.

MrT.

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
Well, as I always warn you when you post these comparisons, don't let
Mr. T know as it may affect his anti-MD bias. We have to protect
people from the truth. :-)

You are still under the misapprehension that the vast majority of the
worlds
population, including me, gives a rats about MD.
I know you wish they did for some reason, but it's time to face facts,
a few
people are only a *minute* exception.

MrT.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:52:59 -0500, George M. Middius cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote:

How can I explain this simple matter in a way even paulie can understand?

I thought you just said I was "pretending" to be feeble minded. Make
up your mind, George.

OK, you've convinced me you're really as obtuse as you're letting on.

Uh oh, I think I see George's 12" guns swivelling around in my
direction.....

I thought you were putting us on with the dumb-as-a-bag-of-hair shtick,
but now I see I was mistaken.

Sure enough....

First, a caveat: You won't find the key in your bible. Personal choice is pretty much
the opposite of christian dogma.

As I understand it, Christian dogma has everything to do with personal
choice. But of course, you may have a different Bible altogether. The
Liberal's Bible, with no Commandments in it.

You can be witty about politics and your beloved bible, but you have
absolutely no clue why some people like stick shifts? Seems incongruous
to me.

Seems logical to me. The Bible and politics--some politics--make
sense. Stick shifts make no sense.

From a higher distance... An example for u: I don't appreciate certain movie
genres. I watched "Terms of Endearment" but I thought it was overwrought and
tedious. I diligently avoided any exposure to "Steel Magnolias" and "Ya Ya
Sisterhood". I did enjoy the "Terminator" films though, as well as "Fight Club"
and the "Indiana Jones" series. I know some people disparage those movies
because of their depictions of violence. Clearly they're out of synch with the
best taste. :-)

So you're saying you're a big bad "bloke", as we call them in OZ. A
real he-man. I thought they were mostly illiterate.

Uh.... what? Come again? Where'd you get that?

What I actually meant, for the more obtuse among the conversants, is
that I like escapist movies with action and adventure and I don't like
talky, feelings-oriented tearjerkers. Sheesh.

Yep, a big bad bloke, like I said. Do you watch them from a recliner
with a beer resting on your belly and burp your comments at the screen
every couple of minutes? Thought so. ;-)

The point being is that it's a matter of taste, preference, choice...
know what I mean? (This is the part where you run and get your bible to
find out if it's immoral to choose one offering over another.)

No Bible needed. Only big bad blokes like action adventure escapist
movies and hate "feeling" movies (read "movies with depth"). I'm
learning more about you every day, George. Perhaps more than I wanted
to know. ;-)

You probably hate to cook too, right? If nobody at home will cook your
meals, it's a certainty you go out to eat.

I can cook and do so frequent. Cooking is gender neutral. It's an
effort that yields a result, unlike stick-shifting.

Funny, I'd have thought you see cooking as a needless chore that you can
offload to a willing service provider. Less effort, same result -- food
on the plate.

Still waiting for you to explain, in simple terms since I'm abtuse,
what the attraction of a manual shift is--other than to 16 year old
olds for doing roaring downshifts and screaming wheelies.

(Don't get upset, George--I'm only pulling your tail. If I were King
of the World I'd still allow stick shifts. I realize there are many
mature men who need to relive their youth occasionally. :-))

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:39:33 +1100, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:



"paul packer" wrote in message
...
Well, my last 3 cars have been autos. First had 147,000 ks when I
bought it. Drove it 83,000 ks and never had anything done to the
transmission. Second one had 82,000ks and I drove it 35,000 ks, never
had anything done to the transmission. Present one had 127,000 ks but
I've only driven it 15,000 ks so far. Should I expect trouble with the
transmission? Not based on experience, no.

I know someone with a Mazda 626 auto that has done 350,000 km with no
transmission repairs yet. Would I want it? Hell no. I once owned the
same
model with a 5 speed manual though. 220,000 km with no problems. Same
with
my present car. Most of your cars have done too few miles to make any
generalisations.

MrT.

Since most of us don't keep our cars more than 5 years, and some less
than two, how many ks does it take to prove the point?

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...
:
: a few
: people are only a *minute* exception.
:
: MrT.
:
...and you're doing the exceptional 4 minute repost ?