Next time the Hive goes into an aBxism mating-dance frenzy, here's something for
the 'borgs to chew on: Substituting artificial "tests" for Normal listening is
unnatural. It does not come naturally to human beings. It's a metronic crutch
that appeals only to certain mental invalids who are unable to reconcile sensory
inputs with their disjointed mental processes.

The repeated, inane demands that Normals "prove" aBxism is not valid is
completely wrongheaded. Human beings make choices of all consumer goods using
the standards they themselves set. Why are these standards valid? Because the
goods are for *****personal use*****. It's characteristic of the 'borgs to
conflate personal use with actual scientific testing because both spheres are
alien to Them. Yes, Mickey, you and Arnii are not real people and you're
certainly not scientists. You never worked in a lab or design facility and you
have no grasp of how real R&D is done. And your inability to grasp how Normals
buy and use audio equipment is betrayed by your mindless yammering on Usenet.

No Normal cares about your silly "tests", Mickey. They are meaningless and
pointless exercises in futility. They are self-defeating because they don't help
anybody. How much common sense does it take to realize that if two components
are nearly indistinguishable sonically, one can make a choice using other
factors? Nobody needs your idiotic "tests" to tell them something so obvious.

It's a shame you're not qualified to work in a setting where real tests are
used. Then you wouldn't have to take out your wannabe frustrations on Usenet and
show the entire world how lame you are.

Nighty-night, Mickey. Time to pull the shades and crawl away into the darkness.

"George Middius" wrote in
message

Yes, Mickey, you and Arnii are not real
people and you're certainly not scientists. You never
worked in a lab or design facility and you have no grasp
of how real R&D is done.

That whirling dervish of lies George Middius is
contradicting himself, again.

While Goerge has grotesquely misrepresented my experience
with product design, along the way he has admitted that I
have worked in at least one design facility.

Now George denies what he said in the past. I guess he's
been taken off the anti-alzheimer's meds that he was on.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"George Middius" wrote in
message

Yes, Mickey, you and Arnii are not real
people and you're certainly not scientists. You never
worked in a lab or design facility and you have no grasp
of how real R&D is done.

That whirling dervish of lies George Middius is
contradicting himself, again.

While Goerge has grotesquely misrepresented my experience
with product design, along the way he has admitted that I
have worked in at least one design facility.

Now George denies what he said in the past. I guess he's
been taken off the anti-alzheimer's meds that he was on.

Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.

The Krooborg is bloodied and he lashes out in anger and frustration.

Yes, Mickey, you and Arnii are not real
people and you're certainly not scientists. You never
worked in a lab or design facility and you have no grasp
of how real R&D is done.

While Goerge has grotesquely misrepresented my experience
with product design, along the way he has admitted that I
have worked in at least one design facility.

Arnii, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but "turd design" is not a real
vocation, and a public toilet is not a real design facility. So my statement
above is correct and you are stuck with your delusions as usual.

"George Middius" wrote in message
...



Next time the Hive goes into an aBxism mating-dance frenzy, here's
something for
the 'borgs to chew on: Substituting artificial "tests" for Normal
listening is
unnatural. It does not come naturally to human beings. It's a metronic
crutch
that appeals only to certain mental invalids who are unable to reconcile
sensory
inputs with their disjointed mental processes.

The repeated, inane demands that Normals "prove" aBxism is not valid is
completely wrongheaded.

Learning what you can or can't hear is wrong headed?

Human beings make choices of all consumer goods using
the standards they themselves set. Why are these standards valid? Because
the
goods are for *****personal use*****.

So persons wanting the best bang for their buck should have no interest in
finding out that the new piece of gear sounds the same or different from the
old one?

It's characteristic of the 'borgs to
conflate personal use with actual scientific testing because both spheres
are
alien to Them. Yes, Mickey, you and Arnii are not real people and you're
certainly not scientists.

When did either of us claim to be scientists? When can we get proof that
YOU are a real person?

You never worked in a lab or design facility and you
have no grasp of how real R&D is done.

And you did?

And your inability to grasp how Normals
buy and use audio equipment is betrayed by your mindless yammering on
Usenet.

By normals you mean stupid people who have no interest in what they are
getting for their money.

No Normal cares about your silly "tests", Mickey.

Fiine, let them buy what they want any way they want.

They are meaningless and
pointless exercises in futility.

In your opinion. IN point of fact, they can let the person who wants to
know, discover things about the purchase they couldn't know otherwise.

They are self-defeating because they don't help
anybody.

They don't help sell overpriced same sounding gear, they do help reveal to
the person making the comparison.

How much common sense does it take to realize that if two components
are nearly indistinguishable sonically, one can make a choice using other
factors?

Who has said that other factors is not a perfectly valid way to make a
choice?


Nobody needs your idiotic "tests" to tell them something so obvious.

So why would they bother then? Why does it bother you so much that some
people think it's OK to know if the equipment sounds the same or not?

It's a shame you're not qualified to work in a setting where real tests
are
used.

It's a shame you're such a pig, but there's not much we can do about it.

Then you wouldn't have to take out your wannabe frustrations on Usenet and
show the entire world how lame you are.


I can't speak for anybody else, but I didn't come to Usenet to discuss ABX.
Guys like you however won't shut the **** up about it, and keep lying about
how it doesn't actually work or how it's not valid, or masks differences.

Maybe you could use your influence and get the other "normals" to stop lying
and then we, as the good Samaritans that we are wouldn't have to keep
debunking your lies.

BTW, I thought In A Nutshell was the perfect title for your previous screed.



Nighty-night, Mickey. Time to pull the shades and crawl away into the
darkness.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"George Middius" wrote in
message

Yes, Mickey, you and Arnii are not real
people and you're certainly not scientists. You never
worked in a lab or design facility and you have no grasp
of how real R&D is done.

That whirling dervish of lies George Middius is
contradicting himself, again.

While Goerge has grotesquely misrepresented my experience
with product design, along the way he has admitted that I
have worked in at least one design facility.

Now George denies what he said in the past. I guess he's
been taken off the anti-alzheimer's meds that he was on.

Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

"George Middius" wrote in
message
The Krooborg is bloodied and he lashes out in anger and
frustration.

Yes, Mickey, you and Arnii are not real
people and you're certainly not scientists. You never
worked in a lab or design facility and you have no grasp
of how real R&D is done.

While Goerge has grotesquely misrepresented my experience
with product design, along the way he has admitted that I
have worked in at least one design facility.

Arnii, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but "turd
design" is not a real vocation, and a public toilet is
not a real design facility.

George, please stop trying to blame your existence on me!

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.


Actually, he does both.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.


Actually, he does both.

Examples of the retards that I attract include George and
Art.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.


Actually, he does both.

Examples of the retards that I attract include George and Art.


Try Mikey and Lionel, your sycophants.

Clyde Slick said:

Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.

Examples of the retards that I attract include George and Art.

Try Mikey and Lionel, your sycophants.

Hold on. Do you know what "attract" means in Krooglish? Apparently it's
quite a different word from the human version.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Clyde Slick said:

Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.

Examples of the retards that I attract include George and Art.

Try Mikey and Lionel, your sycophants.

Hold on. Do you know what "attract" means in Krooglish? Apparently it's
quite a different word from the human version.



yes, I am repulsed by the ****, not attracted to him.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.


Actually, he does both.

Examples of the retards that I attract include George and Art.


Try Mikey and Lionel, your sycophants.
That you believe our behavior and yours and George's compare is truly sad.
Lionel and I have had several go-rounds on several issues, his take on the
war in Iraq for example. I don't even read what he posts most of the time
and have no idea what he thinks about audio, because aside form some
discussion regarding speakers, I can't recall him discussing the subject of
audio.

I'm in agreement with Arny on the subject of audio and we disagree on other
subjects, but respectfully.

Like me, doesn't make personal attacks on somebody who has not attacked
first. I will take somebody to task who has attacked someone other than
myself if I think they were over the top, or when it just seems to offend my
sense of justice, and I do not harass them forever. If it's on a technical
subject, I present my views without ad hominem, as long as I am treated the
same.

I do not engage in continued sniping just because somebody disagreed with me
about something.

George, makes it his job to harass, belittle, lie and generally make himself
a pain in the ass without any substance and seldom with anything useful.

You guys don't think ABX is useful, we got it. Get over it, the majority of
people who do audio research rely on double blind tests of some sort and
have established their usefullness. If you don't feel the need to use them,
so be it. Why you feel the need to be a **** to anyone who diagrees with
you on this subject is beyond comprehension.

George's dildo wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.


Actually, he does both.

Examples of the retards that I attract include George and Art.


Try Mikey and Lionel, your sycophants.

;-)

" wrote in message
link.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.


Actually, he does both.

Examples of the retards that I attract include George and Art.


Try Mikey and Lionel, your sycophants.
That you believe our behavior and yours and George's compare is truly sad.
Lionel and I have had several go-rounds on several issues, his take on the
war in Iraq for example. I don't even read what he posts most of the time
and have no idea what he thinks about audio, because aside form some
discussion regarding speakers, I can't recall him discussing the subject
of audio.

I'm in agreement with Arny on the subject of audio and we disagree on
other subjects, but respectfully.

Like me, doesn't make personal attacks on somebody who has not attacked
first. I will take somebody to task who has attacked someone other than
myself if I think they were over the top, or when it just seems to offend
my sense of justice, and I do not harass them forever. If it's on a
technical subject, I present my views without ad hominem, as long as I am
treated the same.

I do not engage in continued sniping just because somebody disagreed with
me about something.

George, makes it his job to harass, belittle, lie and generally make
himself a pain in the ass without any substance and seldom with anything
useful.

You guys don't think ABX is useful, we got it. Get over it, the majority
of people who do audio research rely on double blind tests of some sort
and have established their usefullness. If you don't feel the need to use
them, so be it. Why you feel the need to be a **** to anyone who diagrees
with you on this subject is beyond comprehension.


Get over it. The vast majority of people who purchase audio equipment
DON"T use DBT. "Heck", even you, a proponent of DBT's hardly ever uses it!

"Lionel" wrote in message
...

George's dildo wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


Arny, you are a talented, but twisted person.
You attract retards like **** draws flies.


Actually, he does both.

Examples of the retards that I attract include George and Art.


Try Mikey and Lionel, your sycophants.

;-)

Saturday morning 8AM, CDG, Terminal 2B, hoping to meet you!
Bring bottled water and a croissant.

George's dildo wrote :


Saturday morning 8AM, CDG, Terminal 2B

Good, I will tell airport authority to order cleaning and disinfecting
service for 9AM.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
George's dildo wrote :


Saturday morning 8AM, CDG, Terminal 2B

Good, I will tell airport authority to order cleaning and disinfecting
service for 9AM.

you can do the sewer inspection yourself.

Clyde Slick a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

George's dildo wrote :



Saturday morning 8AM, CDG, Terminal 2B

Good, I will tell airport authority to order cleaning and disinfecting
service for 9AM.


you can do the sewer inspection yourself.

Compare to terminal 2B at 8AM this day sewers will look like a kind of
providential haven. :-)

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

George's dildo wrote :



Saturday morning 8AM, CDG, Terminal 2B

Good, I will tell airport authority to order cleaning and disinfecting
service for 9AM.


you can do the sewer inspection yourself.

Compare to terminal 2B at 8AM this day sewers will look like a kind of
providential haven. :-)

I hope they clean it up before I get there tomorrow.

George's Dildo rote :

I hope they clean it up before I get there tomorrow.

The most difficult will be to clean it up after you leave

"George Middius" wrote in message
...



Next time the Hive goes into an aBxism mating-dance frenzy, here's
something for
the 'borgs to chew on: Substituting artificial "tests" for Normal
listening is
unnatural.

Not this tired old bull**** again George, shouldn't you at least try a new
line?

It does not come naturally to human beings.

It's not the usual way people listen, but that's sort of the point. It's
listening with more attention being paid for difference, using quick
swithcing and level matching to give the listener every possible advantage.
It's done for the pupose of revealing things that COULDN'T be heard
otherwise.

It's a metronic crutch
that appeals only to certain mental invalids who are unable to reconcile
sensory
inputs with their disjointed mental processes.


It's a process that appeals to people who want to know if what they preceive
is the same as what the equipment is actually doing. It appeals to people
who want to KNOW.

The repeated, inane demands that Normals "prove" aBxism is not valid is
completely wrongheaded.

Nobody is asking you to prove it wrong, only that there is some other method
AT LEAST as reliable. The fact that you can't and that nobody even tries
says all that needs be said about ABX and its validity. That and the
widespread acceptance and use by those doing audio research.

Human beings make choices of all consumer goods using
the standards they themselves set.

And that's not being debated.

Why are these standards valid?

Because people have free will.

Because the
goods are for *****personal use*****. It's characteristic of the 'borgs to
conflate personal use with actual scientific testing because both spheres
are
alien to Them.

But some of the people buying audio gear are prone to believe things that
are not true and because of bias, to beleive they hear things that aren't
there. That's why they can PERCEIVE difference even when no changes were
made and no devices were switched.



Yes, Mickey, you and Arnii are not real people and you're
certainly not scientists.

The only one not real George, is you. Neither he nor I have ever claimed to
be scientists.


You never worked in a lab or design facility and you
have no grasp of how real R&D is done.

Are we back to the nonsense of wwe can't understand what we have not
actually done again? Lay people are capable of understanding the science
behaind ABX and recognizing that it works and that outside of a few high end
idiots, it's widely used to detect difference, (along with other methods) by
people who design and build all sorts of audio equipment.

And your inability to grasp how Normals
buy and use audio equipment is betrayed by your mindless yammering on
Usenet.

And your violent opposition to people talking about a reliable method for
determining difference, or revealing the lack of it, demonstrates how scared
you are that we find out that you have nothing to base your claims of
enourmous difference on.

No Normal cares about your silly "tests", Mickey.

They probably don't have to if they are using SS equipment, since it's a
matter of fact that virtually all of them have zero audible distortion.


They are meaningless and
pointless exercises in futility. They are self-defeating because they
don't help
anybody.

They help to stifle spurious claims of difference where there are none.

How much common sense does it take to realize that if two components
are nearly indistinguishable sonically, one can make a choice using other
factors? Nobody needs your idiotic "tests" to tell them something so
obvious.


If it's so easy to do, why are rags like SP constantly making claims of
difference where there are none?

It's a shame you're not qualified to work in a setting where real tests
are
used. Then you wouldn't have to take out your wannabe frustrations on
Usenet and
show the entire world how lame you are.


It's a shame that your life is so empty that the only thing that seems to
give you a purpose, is in trying to deny a relaible method for determining
audible differences, and trying to demean people who call you on it.


Nighty-night, Mickey. Time to pull the shades and crawl away into the
darkness.

That's where you've been for the last 10 years or so George, in the
darkness.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"George Middius" wrote in
message

Yes, Mickey, you and Arnii are not real
people and you're certainly not scientists. You never
worked in a lab or design facility and you have no grasp
of how real R&D is done.

That whirling dervish of lies George Middius is contradicting himself,
again.

While Goerge has grotesquely misrepresented my experience with product
design, along the way he has admitted that I have worked in at least one
design facility.

Now George denies what he said in the past. I guess he's been taken off
the anti-alzheimer's meds that he was on.

I believe the scientific description of his condition is nutcake.

Poor Mikey Bug-Eater. All the crickets are gone and it's too early for
caterpillars.

The repeated, inane demands that Normals "prove" aBxism is not valid is
completely wrongheaded.

Nobody is asking you to prove it wrong, only that there is some other method
AT LEAST as reliable.

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey. Have you not been listening, or is this apparent stupidity
a manifestation of actual stupidity? Oh wait, that's probably a stupid question.

A human being doesn't need anything more reliable than his own mind. You and the
other 'borgs, being of unsound mind, are obviously drawn to other, uh,
methodologies of existence.


BTW, Arnii just contradicted you about wanting to work at a real audio company.
Are your pants on fire? ;-)


..
..
..

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Poor Mikey Bug-Eater. All the crickets are gone and it's too early for
caterpillars.

The repeated, inane demands that Normals "prove" aBxism is not valid is
completely wrongheaded.

Nobody is asking you to prove it wrong, only that there is some other
method
AT LEAST as reliable.

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey. Have you not been listening, or is this apparent
stupidity
a manifestation of actual stupidity? Oh wait, that's probably a stupid
question.

A human being doesn't need anything more reliable than his own mind.

Then why are so opposed to the idea of getting the most reliable evidence of
difference?
That process is the direct result of using a human's mind.

You and the
other 'borgs, being of unsound mind, are obviously drawn to other, uh,
methodologies of existence.

Acrually, we're just drawn to knowing the truth, especially when it is about
our favorite hobby. People buys their gear for whatever reasons they
choose. Those that want the best performance need a way to determine if
there is any reason to think one thing is better than another at reproducing
audio recordings. ABX is one of the ways to get such information, not the
only way, but ONE of the ways.

One of my goals has always been to get other people to love good audio
reproduction as much as I do, because there aren't nearly enough people to
talk to about it.

If they are constantly told that they HAVE to spend enourmous amounts of
money on each component, instead of concentrating on the single most
important parts, speakers, I think it puts a lot of people off.

While there's nothing wrong with spending 10's of thousands of dollars for a
top quality sound system, knowing that it can be done by starting with
something like a Behringer A500 160 wpc amp that only costs $179.00
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHA500 is IMO very useful to somebody looking
to build a quality system.

Thanks to protocols like ABX and ABC/HR, it's now becoming common knowledge
that amplifers with flat response and plenty of power are not cost
prohibitive.

It's going to take a while longer to get more people up to speed on what it
is possible to do with one's money when assembling a top quality system, but
that day will come and I look forward to people who are armed with the best
possible information to make their choices with.

Then maybe the focus will shift primarily to loudspeaker design and being
where the most money should be spent.

duh-Mikey tries to usurp the Krooborg's position as RAO's High Snotty Priestborg
of aBxism.

It's going to take a while longer to get more people up to speed on what it
is possible to do with one's money when assembling a top quality system, but
that day will come and I look forward to people who are armed with the best
possible information to make their choices with.

I've asked Arnii many times to keep his disgusting religion off this newsgroup.
Now I'll ask you the same thing. Nobody here (except Arnii and a few raggedy-ass
lesser 'borgs) wants to chant along with you. Nobody else believes choosing
audio gear is an exercise in "science". Nobody else wants to surrender their
free will to a nasty little clicky-box and some agonizing torture rituals.

You're not going to convert anybody here to your lame-ass religion, Mickey. Give
it up. I'd tell you get a life, but it's more pertinent to suggest you sacrifice
the ersatz one you already have so that a worthwhile person can use the oxygen
you're wasting.



..
..

wrote in message
nk.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...



Next time the Hive goes into an aBxism mating-dance frenzy, here's
something for
the 'borgs to chew on: Substituting artificial "tests" for Normal
listening is
unnatural.

Not this tired old bull**** again George, shouldn't you at least try a new
line?

Mikey, you are a simpleton. In order to enable you to learn, repetition is
the best strategy.

ABX is snake oil.

wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Poor Mikey Bug-Eater. All the crickets are gone and it's too early for
caterpillars.

The repeated, inane demands that Normals "prove" aBxism is not valid is
completely wrongheaded.

Nobody is asking you to prove it wrong, only that there is some other
method
AT LEAST as reliable.

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey. Have you not been listening, or is this apparent
stupidity
a manifestation of actual stupidity? Oh wait, that's probably a stupid
question.

A human being doesn't need anything more reliable than his own mind.

Then why are so opposed to the idea of getting the most reliable evidence
of difference?
That process is the direct result of using a human's mind.

You and the
other 'borgs, being of unsound mind, are obviously drawn to other, uh,
methodologies of existence.

Acrually, we're just drawn to knowing the truth,
You're supposed to put "Jesus" in there, not "truth".

especially when it is about
our favorite hobby. People buys their gear for whatever reasons they
Blue collar spelling noted, as in, "You pays your money and you makes your
choice."

choose. Those that want the best performance need a way to determine if
there is any reason to think one thing is better than another at
reproducing audio recordings. ABX is one of the ways to get such
information, not the only way, but ONE of the ways.

No, it is not. As Ludovic has shown, it is actually counterproductive.

One of my goals has always been to get other people to love good audio
reproduction as much as I do, because there aren't nearly enough people to
talk to about it.

There would be, if you would kindly leave this group.

If they are constantly told that they HAVE to spend enourmous amounts of
money on each component, instead of concentrating on the single most
important parts, speakers, I think it puts a lot of people off.

That is true. However, putting a perception-destroying process in the way,
namely ABX, is a far greater evil.


While there's nothing wrong with spending 10's of thousands of dollars for
a top quality sound system, knowing that it can be done by starting with
something like a Behringer A500 160 wpc amp that only costs $179.00
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHA500 is IMO very useful to somebody
looking to build a quality system.

WRONG.

Thanks to protocols like ABX and ABC/HR, it's now becoming common
knowledge that amplifers with flat response and plenty of power are not
cost prohibitive.

True. Unfortunately, the cheap ones don't sound any good.

It's going to take a while longer to get more people up to speed on what
it is possible to do with one's money when assembling a top quality
system, but that day will come and I look forward to people who are armed
with the best possible information to make their choices with.

Best obtained by ignoring you.

Then maybe the focus will shift primarily to loudspeaker design and being
where the most money should be spent.

It already has. You are behind the eight-ball, as usual.