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#1
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US/UK mains voltage/frequency
Hi all,
I really would value the benefit of your knowledge/experience on this one... In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made (with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with transformers). Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was true or not. What do you think? (Many thanks in advance) Andy |
#2
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Andy Balderdash cubed. Your friend heard the daftest thing I've read in ages! wrote in message ups.com... Hi all, I really would value the benefit of your knowledge/experience on this one... In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made (with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with transformers). Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was true or not. What do you think? (Many thanks in advance) Andy |
#3
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If the power supplies were marginally designed running them on 60 Hz.
rather than 50 could give lower noise and a cooler running power transformer. In fact some studios have used variable frequency supplies to run guitar amps and other vintage/boutique **** at higher than 60 Hz for dropping the noise and making them run quieter. Motors in tape transports may have been happier at one frequency-their speed certainly changed, so either different drive mechanicals or different motors were used. So again the 50 hz setup could have some small difference. Whether 50 or 60 Hz is "better" is a non-issue, but whether a given box works better on one or the other is a relevant question. Most any power transformer small enough to pick up and carry-except for ferroresonant supply types which need a specific frequency-will like 60 better than 50 Hz. Americans have the best of both worlds in that we have 60 Hz and in almost all homes both 120 (one hot one neutral) and 240 VAC (two hots). (Generally we refuse to use this good fortune.) If you want a 50 Hz supply it's eay enough to either cobble up a surplus UPS (most will give 50 or 60 Hz at low distortion if you get a good one surplus-the landfills are full of them) or get two motors that will act as generators, and couple them up with pulleys, one five-sixths the size of the other. |
#4
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wrote:
In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made (with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with transformers). Well, since pretty much all audio equipment today runs off of DC anyway, it's not an issue. Everything has a power supply inside (or a crappy wall-wart) that turns the AC line into rectified and probably regulated DC power. So the line frequency is a non-issue. It's true that synchronous motors tend to have lower flutter at the 60 Hz mains frequency. But since most of the higher grade tape machines today are either digital or use DC servo motors now, that's a non-issue too. Could be an issue with an old Ampex 350, though. Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was true or not. What do you think? I think that either one is fine. The thing to watch out for is 400 Hz aircraft power. If you think 50 Hz hum is bad, 400 Hz whine is just deafening, and it leaks into everything much more easily. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#6
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High cycle three phase has the advantage of being obvious and therefore
easy to track down and requiring really good shielding and grounding. When you've stamped it out, it's stamped out. It's a moot point, though, unless you're building a flying recording studio. Many turntable people feel DC servo motors are less desirable than AC synchronous motors. Whether that's true or not I am not sure, but AC motors leverage modern power companies' quite good frequency control pretty well. Also you can use a AF gen and a bench amp to run things at any speed (within reason) such as for playing 78s on the 45 rpm pulley of a table. |
#7
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wrote: Thanks everyone! All the best Andy A more interesting question is the impact of using those peak reading style level meters they like to use in the UK instead of the VU meters we like to use in the US. Mark |
#8
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wrote:
High cycle three phase has the advantage of being obvious and therefore easy to track down and requiring really good shielding and grounding. When you've stamped it out, it's stamped out. It's a moot point, though, unless you're building a flying recording studio. I do a lot of recording in airplanes and 400 Hz trash is the bane of my life. It's everywhere, and sadly enough the electronics I am often connected to are anything but well-shielded and grounded. Many turntable people feel DC servo motors are less desirable than AC synchronous motors. Whether that's true or not I am not sure, but AC motors leverage modern power companies' quite good frequency control pretty well. Also you can use a AF gen and a bench amp to run things at any speed (within reason) such as for playing 78s on the 45 rpm pulley of a table. I think a lot of the argument is because there have been some very badly designed DC servo systems in turntables over the years. There are a number of units like the Ariston, which never stops hunting. Also, of course, some people make the incorrect assumption that DC servo means direct drive. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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That and there's also the different curves -CCIR vs NAB-and a few
hundred other minor details. However the world is getting to be a much more uniform place than it was forty years ago-technically at least. As far as metrering goes, does anyone really serious use anything besides Dorrough today? |
#10
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wrote:
That and there's also the different curves -CCIR vs NAB-and a few hundred other minor details. However the world is getting to be a much more uniform place than it was forty years ago-technically at least. That is one of the big things that the digital world has made much easier. I haven't even heard anyone arguing about digital emphasis being a good thing in nearly a decade now. As far as metrering goes, does anyone really serious use anything besides Dorrough today? I like the RTW meters a lot more than the Dorrough, but to be honest I still use old Western Electric moving iron meters sometimes. And the Nagra modulometer..... and the PPM meters on the Ampex... sheesh, you'd think we could settle on just one metering standard. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#11
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Lol :-)
.... Oh well... Andy |
#12
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#14
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On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 02:33:38 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote: wrote: If the power supplies were marginally designed running them on 60 Hz. rather than 50 ...... Ohhhh - you took the troll seriously ? How can this be a troll? It's not crossposted. Graham ----- http://mindspring.com/~benbradley |
#15
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Hi all,
I'm not a troll - really - I just asked a silly question (and got some enjoyably silly answers).... Thanks to all who took the time to put me straight... Regards Andy |
#16
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wrote in message ups.com... Hi all, I really would value the benefit of your knowledge/experience on this one... In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made (with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with transformers). Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was true or not. What do you think? You are nearly right - you 'almost' have enough electronics knowledge to be dangerous. Unless there was recorded hum and you can tell the difference between 50 and 60Hz, then your drunk friend is letting the pub-product do the talking. There is no inherent, or perceivable different unless something is broken. geoff |
#17
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Geoff Wood wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Hi all, I really would value the benefit of your knowledge/experience on this one... In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made (with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with transformers). Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was true or not. What do you think? You are nearly right - you 'almost' have enough electronics knowledge to be dangerous. Unless there was recorded hum and you can tell the difference between 50 and 60Hz, then your drunk friend is letting the pub-product do the talking. There is no inherent, or perceivable different unless something is broken. You used to be able to tell where it might have been recorded in days of old by the 'hum frequency'. Equipment's better these days - even the guitar amps ! Graham |
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