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#1
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
I need to record the active sensing MIDI messages of one of my
keyboards and save to a General MIDI sequence. I tried various sequencer programs to accomplish this, from Easy Beat all the way to Logic Pro 7.2. They all ignored Active Sensing MIDI messages by default, and I did not find any switch either that I could turn on to get it recorded. (I know Active Sensing messages are getting through to the Mac because this keyboard's editor software uses them extensively.) If anyone knows a Mac tool (or even a PC one) that will let me capture these elusive Active Sensing messages please let me know. Grateful thanks in advance George |
#2
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
"Keoki" wrote in message ... I need to record the active sensing MIDI messages of one of my keyboards and save to a General MIDI sequence. I tried various sequencer programs to accomplish this, from Easy Beat all the way to Logic Pro 7.2. They all ignored Active Sensing MIDI messages by default, and I did not find any switch either that I could turn on to get it recorded. (I know Active Sensing messages are getting through to the Mac because this keyboard's editor software uses them extensively.) If anyone knows a Mac tool (or even a PC one) that will let me capture these elusive Active Sensing messages please let me know. Grateful thanks in advance George I think you will have a lot of difficulty finding one. Active Sensing is only designed to be used in real time at the time of transmisson. It is not really part of the MIDI data at all, just a real time timing signal of sorts. Maybe you cold explain why you want to do this? Gareth. |
#3
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Gareth Magennis wrote:
"Keoki" wrote in message ... I need to record the active sensing MIDI messages of one of my keyboards and save to a General MIDI sequence. I tried various sequencer programs to accomplish this, from Easy Beat all the way to Logic Pro 7.2. They all ignored Active Sensing MIDI messages by default, and I did not find any switch either that I could turn on to get it recorded. (I know Active Sensing messages are getting through to the Mac because this keyboard's editor software uses them extensively.) If anyone knows a Mac tool (or even a PC one) that will let me capture these elusive Active Sensing messages please let me know. Grateful thanks in advance George I think you will have a lot of difficulty finding one. Active Sensing is only designed to be used in real time at the time of transmisson. It is not really part of the MIDI data at all, just a real time timing signal of sorts. Interesting. How is it employed? What potential benefits does it offer? The data would, in theory, be recordable, wouldn't it? Maybe you cold explain why you want to do this? -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
#4
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
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#6
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:12:46 -0500, (hank alrich) wrote: I think you will have a lot of difficulty finding one. Active Sensing is only designed to be used in real time at the time of transmisson. It is not really part of the MIDI data at all, just a real time timing signal of sorts. Interesting. How is it employed? What potential benefits does it offer? The data would, in theory, be recordable, wouldn't it? It's an "I'm still here!" message. After receiving an AS message, the receiving device looks for another one (or some other MIDI data). If it doesn't receive one after 300ms it performs All Notes Off. It's for killing stuck notes when a MIDI cable falls out. It isn't universally implemented, and required by the receiving device - if it never sees AS at all it doesn't care. So if I understand this rightly... - it's a feature of the hardware device (perhaps in firmware?), looking at the stream and at a stopwatch, too, to turn a channel off if nothing shows up in the stream within the alloted time. - it is not a property of the MIDI stream itself, and hence, the usual DAW suspects would have no reason to capture it. Looking forward to learning what Keoki wants to do with that data. -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... Laurence Payne wrote: On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:12:46 -0500, (hank alrich) wrote: I think you will have a lot of difficulty finding one. Active Sensing is only designed to be used in real time at the time of transmisson. It is not really part of the MIDI data at all, just a real time timing signal of sorts. Interesting. How is it employed? What potential benefits does it offer? The data would, in theory, be recordable, wouldn't it? It's an "I'm still here!" message. After receiving an AS message, the receiving device looks for another one (or some other MIDI data). If it doesn't receive one after 300ms it performs All Notes Off. It's for killing stuck notes when a MIDI cable falls out. It isn't universally implemented, and required by the receiving device - if it never sees AS at all it doesn't care. So if I understand this rightly... - it's a feature of the hardware device (perhaps in firmware?), looking at the stream and at a stopwatch, too, to turn a channel off if nothing shows up in the stream within the alloted time. - it is not a property of the MIDI stream itself, and hence, the usual DAW suspects would have no reason to capture it. Looking forward to learning what Keoki wants to do with that data. -- ha If he wants to implement Active Sense on a system that doesn't have it, he'd be better off manually creating a separate MIDI "click track" of AS bytes. Gareth. |
#8
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
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#9
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Looking forward to learning what Keoki wants to do with that data.
If he wants to implement Active Sense on a system that doesn't have it, he'd be better off manually creating a separate MIDI "click track" of AS bytes. My plan was to capture the Active Sensing messages to a General MIDI sequence that I can set to loop endlessly. This would play them back at the correct repeat rate (one every 300 milliseconds). If I can achieve the same thing with a manually created click track - I'm game. The reason why I'd like to have a copy of my keyboard's active sensing messages is to fool its Mac editor program into working even when the keyboard is not present. (I often need to access it for various reasons in such a situation.) Normally it listens to the board's Active Sensing messages and it stops functioning one second after they cease. There is no optional toggle where this sensing function could be turned off. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
hank alrich wrote:
So if I understand this rightly... - it's a feature of the hardware device (perhaps in firmware?), looking at the stream and at a stopwatch, too, to turn a channel off if nothing shows up in the stream within the alloted time. It's a MIDI system real time message (others are stop, continue, start, and the timing clock) so it's not real MIDI data as such. If a noisemaker supports active sense, when it receives an active sense message, it goes into the active sense mode where it's on the lookout for this "hello, world" message which occurs a couple of times a second. If it stops receiving the active sense message, it turns all notes off. The idea behind this is that if the sequencer failed (or the MIDI cable became unplugged) while a note was sounding, there would be nothing to tell that note to shaddap. It was never very widely implemented. The only reason why I can see to trap and record the message is to verify that it's there and working. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#11
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Keoki wrote:
The reason why I'd like to have a copy of my keyboard's active sensing messages is to fool its Mac editor program into working even when the keyboard is not present. (I often need to access it for various reasons in such a situation.) Normally it listens to the board's Active Sensing messages and it stops functioning one second after they cease. There is no optional toggle where this sensing function could be turned off. In that case, I'd look for a different program. Suppose you connected it to a keyboard that didn't support active sensing? It's optional, I believe, but it's been many years since I've read the MIDI specification, and it's probably also been many years since all manufacturers followed every provision of the MIDI spec. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#12
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
On Jul 29, 8:53 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
In that case, I'd look for a different program. Hello Mike, Thank you for your reply. Since we are looking for a new tool already, I rather look for a new program to capture Active Sensing once in a lifetime than to replace a real good editing program I use every day. (As long as we find a way.) I emailed the keyboard's customer support today to inquire what is my keyboard's active sensing byte in Hex. If they tell me, I'll only need to find a way to enter this byte to a sequence manually and I'll be in business. I looked at MIDIMonitor on my G5, it displayed the keyboard's idle pulses as "clock". Well, I don't think it's clock data, it must be active sensing. Clock information is device independent, my other plugged-in keyboard from the same manufacturer ought to keep the editor software running then, but it sure doesn't. So we are dealing with a (keyboard model-specific) active sensing message, then. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
"Keoki" wrote in message ... Looking forward to learning what Keoki wants to do with that data. If he wants to implement Active Sense on a system that doesn't have it, he'd be better off manually creating a separate MIDI "click track" of AS bytes. My plan was to capture the Active Sensing messages to a General MIDI sequence that I can set to loop endlessly. This would play them back at the correct repeat rate (one every 300 milliseconds). If I can achieve the same thing with a manually created click track - I'm game. Active sense is the single byte 0xFE. Just fill a bar with one of these bytes every 300 mSecs or less, and copy and paste bars to the end of the song. There's your AS click track sorted. Gareth. The reason why I'd like to have a copy of my keyboard's active sensing messages is to fool its Mac editor program into working even when the keyboard is not present. (I often need to access it for various reasons in such a situation.) Normally it listens to the board's Active Sensing messages and it stops functioning one second after they cease. There is no optional toggle where this sensing function could be turned off. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Hi,
I would hope the program has a way of ignoring AS messages. There is no reason for it not to work fine with the keyboard turned off. Your "solution" seems far more work than it should need to be. Dean On Jul 29, 12:55*pm, Keoki wrote: Looking forward to learning what Keoki wants to do with that data. If he wants to implement Active Sense on a system that doesn't have it, he'd be better off manually creating a separate MIDI *"click track" of AS bytes. My plan was to capture the Active Sensing messages to a General MIDI sequence that I can set to loop endlessly. This would play them back at the correct repeat rate (one every 300 milliseconds). If I can achieve the same thing with a manually created click track - I'm game. The reason why I'd like to have a copy of my keyboard's active sensing messages is to fool its Mac editor program into working even when the keyboard is not present. (I often need to access it for various reasons in such a situation.) Normally it listens to the board's Active Sensing messages and it stops functioning one second after they cease. There is no optional toggle where this sensing function could be turned off. |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Keoki wrote:
I emailed the keyboard's customer support today to inquire what is my keyboard's active sensing byte in Hex. I looked at MIDIMonitor on my G5, it displayed the keyboard's idle pulses as "clock". Well, I don't think it's clock data, it must be active sensing. Clock information is device independent So, as far as I know, is active sensing. I'm sure it's in the MIDI specification but they don't publish that for free. I see that Gareth has already given you the code. Active sense does only one thing and it really works in one direction - from the controller to the instrument. You can test whether your keyboard has it by sending a continuous note from your sequencer program, then unplugging the MIDI IN cable to the keyboard. If the note continues playing, it's not using active sensing. If it shuts off, then it is. I suspect that the reason why the editng program doesn't work without a keyboard connected is because it expects to be able to play what you've just edited so you can hear it, and it doesn't see anything attached that can play a sound. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message om... "Keoki" wrote in message ... Looking forward to learning what Keoki wants to do with that data. If he wants to implement Active Sense on a system that doesn't have it, he'd be better off manually creating a separate MIDI "click track" of AS bytes. My plan was to capture the Active Sensing messages to a General MIDI sequence that I can set to loop endlessly. This would play them back at the correct repeat rate (one every 300 milliseconds). If I can achieve the same thing with a manually created click track - I'm game. Active sense is the single byte 0xFE. Just fill a bar with one of these bytes every 300 mSecs or less, and copy and paste bars to the end of the song. There's your AS click track sorted. Gareth. You won't be able to directly insert an Active Sense message, this is never done manually. You will have to dig around your software until you can find some way of inserting/editing a MIDI message (eg SysEx, Song Start) then edit it down to just "FE". Or you can just play in notes and edit those down to the FE byte. Good luck. Gareth. |
#17
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Poking around the Net, I assembled a list of all the slots in "wild &
woolly" 0xfN ending chapter of the MIDI spec from 0xf0 (sysex) to 0xff (system reset). If I don't get a reply from my keyboard's manufacturer, I'll try all 14 sensible values from this list (from 0xf1, undefined through 0xfe, active sensing) to see if either keeps this program running when fed to it in 300 ms intervals. There's no other part in the MIDI spectrum where a manufacturer could "expropriate" a byte without causing a MIDI train wreck, right? All the preceding territory from 0x00 through 0xe0 have been already taken by various MIDI note, controller, etc. events, I believe? |
#18
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
I just finished looking at the MIDI data exchange between the keyboard
and its editor program with MIDI Monitor. This is crazy, Fort Knox is probably secured with fewer passwords. Besides the steady stream of sensing messages output by my keyboard, at launch the editor goes into a handshake with more than 10 steps, five to thirteen byte SysEx strings flying thick and fast back and forth. This has nothing to do with wanting to sense a keyboard, it's some kind of copy protection scheme that uses my keyboard as a (giant) hardware dongle. All right, Mike is probably correct, it will be simpler to just create my composition with a different tool. |
#19
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
"Keoki" wrote in message ... Poking around the Net, I assembled a list of all the slots in "wild & woolly" 0xfN ending chapter of the MIDI spec from 0xf0 (sysex) to 0xff (system reset). If I don't get a reply from my keyboard's manufacturer, I'll try all 14 sensible values from this list (from 0xf1, undefined through 0xfe, active sensing) to see if either keeps this program running when fed to it in 300 ms intervals. I don't understand what you are saying. The AS byte is 0xfe, also known as FE, or 1111 1110. Period. Your keyboard's manufacturer will say the same. ????? Gareth. |
#20
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:52:39 -0700 (PDT), Keoki
wrote: I just finished looking at the MIDI data exchange between the keyboard and its editor program with MIDI Monitor. This is crazy, Fort Knox is probably secured with fewer passwords. Besides the steady stream of sensing messages output by my keyboard, at launch the editor goes into a handshake with more than 10 steps, five to thirteen byte SysEx strings flying thick and fast back and forth. This has nothing to do with wanting to sense a keyboard, it's some kind of copy protection scheme that uses my keyboard as a (giant) hardware dongle. All right, Mike is probably correct, it will be simpler to just create my composition with a different tool. Handshakes are common when MIDI devices exchange e.g. patch data - no need to read anything more into it. This thread is nearly 20 messages long, you still haven't revealed WHICH keyboard, WHICH program we're discussing! |
#21
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
I don't understand what you are saying. *The AS byte is 0xfe, also known as
FE, or 1111 1110. * *Period. *Your keyboard's manufacturer will say the same. *????? Now that I saw how my keyboard's Mac program does a whole 10-step sysex string handshake dance at startup besides watching for the board's active sensing bytes (see my other post) yeah, my keyboard's manufacturer will probably answer that Active Sensing is 0xfe and that will be all they'll tell. |
#22
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:30:48 -0700 (PDT), Keoki
wrote: Now that I saw how my keyboard's Mac program does a whole 10-step sysex string handshake dance at startup besides watching for the board's active sensing bytes (see my other post) yeah, my keyboard's manufacturer will probably answer that Active Sensing is 0xfe and that will be all they'll tell. That's all there IS to tell about Active Sensing! Perhaps this program acts directly on the keyboard's internal memory. Witout the keyboard connected it has no data to work on and so quite reasonably shuts up shop. But we're only guessing, because you won't reveal the details :-) |
#23
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Keoki wrote:
at launch the editor goes into a handshake with more than 10 steps, five to thirteen byte SysEx strings flying thick and fast back and forth. This has nothing to do with wanting to sense a keyboard, it's some kind of copy protection scheme that uses my keyboard as a (giant) hardware dongle. Is this a dedicated editor for that keyboard? If so, I'm not surprised that it wants to make sure that it's talking to that keyboard and one whose synth engine it knows nothing about. It's been many years since I dealt with MIDI patch editors, but I recall that most were written around a singly synth or family, with only one or two "universal" products. Even those had a library for each synth product and a suitable handshake and data exchange so it knew which library to load. I'm curious as to what application you have for the editor without having the keyboard connected. And what's the program you're using? This is getting skullduggerous. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#24
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Hi,
No, it is not a copy-protection scheme, or anything like that. The editor is communicating with the keyboard to find out various settings. That's all. Sysex messages are used for communication specific to a particular keyboard or MIDI device. Chances are that every time you make an edit the software and keyboard communicate. So now I have a better picture of what's happening. It's likely that the reason your software expects the keyboard to be there is because it is sending all edits in real time to the keyboard. Your AS string will probably not fix the problem anyway. Most people don't edit synth patches without the synth attached. Why do want to do edits that you can't hear? Dean On Jul 30, 3:52*am, Keoki wrote: I just finished looking at the MIDI data exchange between the keyboard and its editor program with MIDI Monitor. This is crazy, Fort Knox is probably secured with fewer passwords. Besides the steady stream of sensing messages output by my keyboard, at launch the editor goes into a handshake with more than 10 steps, five to thirteen byte SysEx strings flying thick and fast back and forth. This has nothing to do with wanting to sense a keyboard, it's some kind of copy protection scheme that uses my keyboard as a (giant) hardware dongle. All right, Mike is probably correct, it will be simpler to just create my composition with a different tool. |
#25
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
It's likely that
the reason your software expects the keyboard to be there is because it is sending all edits in real time to the keyboard. To answer the questions regarding make and model, the keyboard is the Korg Triton Studio, and the program is Karma Triton. The reason why I'd run this program without the keyboard is because I centralize my resources. For example, all my best Akai, Emu, Wav, Kontakt, EXS24 and softsynth sounds from my 400 CD/DVD file pile are selected and centralized to one place, Kore 2. So any sound I need - bam! It's there in less than 2 seconds. (It only took me 5 years to set this up, going through ever single sound on every single disc.) I'm trying to centralize now all the interactive MIDI patterns (Korg Karmas, Yamaha arpeggios, Xphraze patches, Kontakt Scripts, etc. etc.) the same way as I did my sounds, by trying to assemble them all in ONE central pattern management app. This could be the Karma Triton, if it could travel around on my laptop to gather patterns from any new device I encounter on my sessions. But, user friendly and visually appealing as it is, if I can't get it to work unless I lug a 65 lbs hardware dongle (my non-traveling Triton Studio 88) around with it... well, I'll be forced to begin considering alternatives. In terms of the 10-step handshake, my Triton's manual on page 271 it lists the recognized system messages (MIDI), and the first message observed by MIDI Monitor is Device Inquiry all right. However other 9 steps of the communication are not, and the manual stays totally mum about those, it doesn't even list any kind of 15 byte MIDI string as observed (F0 7E 00 06 02 42 50 00 37 00 00 00 01 00 F7) whatsoever. Given that if you don't load the matching soundset in the keyboard manually, the software will just play its MIDI patterns oblivious to what sound is stored at the given location (e.g. play harp patterns on a sax patch), the purpose of the mysterious 10-step handshake is definitely not patch parameter syncing or transmission, my friends. |
#26
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Keoki wrote:
To answer the questions regarding make and model, the keyboard is the Korg Triton Studio, and the program is Karma Triton. Well, this is a program designed to support a specific range of Korg synthesizers. It's not interested in talking to all of your others. If this isn't correct, perhaps you might do better asking around in the rec.music.makers.synth newsgroup, assuming it still exists. Maybe they know some hacks over there. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#27
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
On Jul 30, 10:12 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
Well, this is a program designed to support a specific range of Korg synthesizers. It's not interested in talking to all of your others. It runs all of them just fine as long as there is *one* Korg Triton running somewhere on the MIDI chain. If the Triton is turned off or disconnected, Karma Triton stops pumping out its MIDI music right away, but otherwise it will feed it happily to just about any device on its output channel. It even has a Device ID parameter, "only necessary for devices that receive SysEx messages containing Device IDs to change banks such as the Roland Sound Canvas SC-55" says its manual. So the Korg Triton keyboard checking is clearly not intended to prevent Karma Triton from playing just about any MIDI synth (as it does around my place). It's intended to make you buy a Korg Triton as well. Well, I did that, I just don't want to lug that mother everywhere I'd need to take Karma Triton. Hence the whole matter. |
#28
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
"Keoki" wrote in message ... On Jul 30, 10:12 am, Mike Rivers wrote: Well, this is a program designed to support a specific range of Korg synthesizers. It's not interested in talking to all of your others. It runs all of them just fine as long as there is *one* Korg Triton running somewhere on the MIDI chain. If the Triton is turned off or disconnected, Karma Triton stops pumping out its MIDI music right away, but otherwise it will feed it happily to just about any device on its output channel. It even has a Device ID parameter, "only necessary for devices that receive SysEx messages containing Device IDs to change banks such as the Roland Sound Canvas SC-55" says its manual. So the Korg Triton keyboard checking is clearly not intended to prevent Karma Triton from playing just about any MIDI synth (as it does around my place). It's intended to make you buy a Korg Triton as well. Well, I did that, I just don't want to lug that mother everywhere I'd need to take Karma Triton. Hence the whole matter. Well that makes things bit clearer then. If I understand correctly, you want something to emulate exactly what the Triton is doing, including the handshaking, otherwise the program won't run. The only workaround I can see is to record all that handshaking malarky onto a MIDI track and delete all the data coming from the Mac, leaving just the replies from the Triton, and gaps where the Mac transmissions were. When the Mac sends its first request for data, you start the MIDI track playback and the Mac thinks its talking to the Triton and getting meaningful replies. Add the looped Active Sense data after this and the Mac should be none the wiser. I don't know off hand how long a machine will wait for an answer after a request for it before bugging out, but I think it may be indefinately, so your timing may not be at all critical. It may be prudent to lengthen the gaps just in case the Mac doesn't always respond in the same time interval. Sounds like a right palaver, but it might just work. Take Mikes suggestion and go looking for hacks as well, you can't be the only one with this problem to solve. Cheers, Gareth. |
#29
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Assuming of course that the Mac and the Triton always exchange exactly the
same data. If it really is a dongle, which I doubt, then perhaps that may not be the case. Gareth. |
#30
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Keoki wrote:
It's likely that the reason your software expects the keyboard to be there is because it is sending all edits in real time to the keyboard. To answer the questions regarding make and model, the keyboard is the Korg Triton Studio, and the program is Karma Triton. The reason why I'd run this program without the keyboard is because I centralize my resources. For example, all my best Akai, Emu, Wav, Kontakt, EXS24 and softsynth sounds from my 400 CD/DVD file pile are selected and centralized to one place, Kore 2. So any sound I need - bam! It's there in less than 2 seconds. (It only took me 5 years to set this up, going through ever single sound on every single disc.) I'm trying to centralize now all the interactive MIDI patterns (Korg Karmas, Yamaha arpeggios, Xphraze patches, Kontakt Scripts, etc. etc.) the same way as I did my sounds, by trying to assemble them all in ONE central pattern management app. This could be the Karma Triton, if it could travel around on my laptop to gather patterns from any new device I encounter on my sessions. But, user friendly and visually appealing as it is, if I can't get it to work unless I lug a 65 lbs hardware dongle (my non-traveling Triton Studio 88) around with it... well, I'll be forced to begin considering alternatives. In terms of the 10-step handshake, my Triton's manual on page 271 it lists the recognized system messages (MIDI), and the first message observed by MIDI Monitor is Device Inquiry all right. However other 9 steps of the communication are not, and the manual stays totally mum about those, it doesn't even list any kind of 15 byte MIDI string as observed (F0 7E 00 06 02 42 50 00 37 00 00 00 01 00 F7) whatsoever. Given that if you don't load the matching soundset in the keyboard manually, the software will just play its MIDI patterns oblivious to what sound is stored at the given location (e.g. play harp patterns on a sax patch), the purpose of the mysterious 10-step handshake is definitely not patch parameter syncing or transmission, my friends. If you are just completely stuck, there's always midilib and Tcl. Works a treat; ain't that bad of a deal. -- Les Cargill |
#31
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
The only workaround I can see is to record all that handshaking malarky onto
a MIDI track and delete all the data coming from the Mac, leaving just the replies from the Triton, and gaps where the Mac transmissions were. I'll try it. BTW I also contacted the programmer of Karma Triton. He replied that there is no way to turn off keyboard checking in Karma Triton or Karma Oasys. Well, then (for Korg's sake too) let's hope that the malarkey recording trick will work. Otherwise, if they don't have a portable app people can use to gather and play the different (Karma, Xphrase, Kontakt Script, Roland, etc) interactive MIDI patterns, sooner or later a bored 18-year old in Kuala Lumpur or Bombay will sit down and write one (a la mp3 player story) and then it will be game over for all the commercial players. We'll be buying 4GB MIDI MIDI arranger - keychain - lighter sticks at Best Buy for $19.95, right next to the MP3 player - keychain - lighter sticks isle. Hmm, came to think of it, what am I straining myself here for, then? Heck, let Korg worry about this :-) |
#32
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
On Jul 30, 3:18 pm, Keoki wrote:
Came to think of it, what am I straining myself here for, then? Heck, let Korg worry about this :-) As I wrote these last sentences of my previous post, I became overcame with a giant, wonderful, warm feeling of galactic it's-not-my-problem. From now I'll only compose, and I don't give a damn about gear. Everything will stay in the studio as it is now. What's sorted now is sorted, what's not will never be. Program enhancements, upgrades - I don't give a flying damn. Just saying it as I type it fills me with sheer joy. I'll work with material, apps and gear that's here now, as they are now. What I miss because it wasn't sorted, fixed, upgraded, installed yet - who cares. If I hit platinum with a work, I won't blow it on a million dollar recording studio that would only bring me back headaches. Oh no; with the money, I'll hire twenty pretty secretaries to sit in my lap in shifts, instead. That'll probably lead to happier music anyway. Thank you all for your posts. I had no clue a state like this exists, but today I achieved my peak transcendence of music technology. Bliss to you all. |
#33
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
"Keoki" wrote in message ... The only workaround I can see is to record all that handshaking malarky onto a MIDI track and delete all the data coming from the Mac, leaving just the replies from the Triton, and gaps where the Mac transmissions were. I'll try it. BTW I also contacted the programmer of Karma Triton. He replied that there is no way to turn off keyboard checking in Karma Triton or Karma Oasys. I would start by at least doubling the gaps between Triton transmissions. If the transmitted and received data overlaps at all it won't work. There may be little, if any wait time between transmit and receive when directly connected. Good luck, let us know if you have any sucesss. Gareth. |
#34
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
"Keoki" wrote in message ... The only workaround I can see is to record all that handshaking malarky onto a MIDI track and delete all the data coming from the Mac, leaving just the replies from the Triton, and gaps where the Mac transmissions were. I'll try it. BTW I also contacted the programmer of Karma Triton. He replied that there is no way to turn off keyboard checking in Karma Triton or Karma Oasys. The program may need to know exactly which Triton, with which features/expansions or global settings, and what version of the Operating System it is using to boot up to the appropriate state. If you remove the Triton, the program may quit so that you can connect a different one, which the program will then interrogate and set itself up appropriately for. Gareth. |
#35
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
Keoki wrote:
if they don't have a portable app people can use to gather and play the different (Karma, Xphrase, Kontakt Script, Roland, etc) interactive MIDI patterns, sooner or later a bored 18-year old in Kuala Lumpur or Bombay will sit down and write one (a la mp3 player story) and then it will be game over for all the commercial players. I didn't realize that the program was a sequencer ("player?"). I thought it was a patch editor and librarian. I'm not sure what "interactive MIDI programs" means, but if you have keyboards with built-in patterns, you should be able to capture those as MIDI files in any sequencer. I guess I still don't understand what you have and what you're trying to do, so I guess I really don't have any further information for you. Good luck with your experiments. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#36
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
On Jul 31, 1:46 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
I'm not sure what "interactive MIDI programs" means, but if you have keyboards with built-in patterns, you should be able to capture those as MIDI files in any sequencer. Hello Mike, The interactive MIDI patterns which Karma Triton generates are in essence cool, tiny arrangements or solos. A great compositional idea trove, or a sure way to bore listeners by playing them one-finger style over 32 bars, as how to remain interesting with them on the long run when music constantly evolves has not been fully solved yet. "Now that any 'board sounds good" my favorite music store clerk told me, "its these interactive MIDI patterns manufacturers are moving into heavily to sell units." (A case in point, I counted 20 mostly Korg R&D names on Karma Triton's patch credit & splash screens.) So we'll be soon up to our necks in these interactive patterns, with every new 'board and audio plugin doohickey sporting thousands. A need to manage them will become evident to everyone. Yes, you can record one in a MIDI sequencer, but will it know how to add musically pleasing variatons based on your playing at playback time? Not the sequencers I know today. I only wrote this little blurb to answer your question. Yesterday at 3:18 pm I achieved my state of transcendence. I savor every second of the pleasurable feeling now how suprimely unconcerned I am now with anything gear-related anymore, able to exclusively focus on creating music. I guess this is the real-life version of "getting to the next level". It does exist. |
#37
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What program captures Active Sensing MIDI messages?
On Jul 30, 10:34 pm, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote: The program may need to know exactly which Triton, with which features/expansions or global settings, and what version of the Operating System it is using to boot up to the appropriate state. If you remove the Triton, the program may quit so that you can connect a different one, which the program will then interrogate and set itself up appropriately for. Gareth. Hello Gareth, Thank you for your great suggestions. The Karma Triton expects the user to tell it what Triton model is used via a pulldown menu. It also expects the user to load the correct soundset into the Triton on his own; it the user doesn't, Karma Triton will play its MIDI patterns through whatever patches the Triton has. So the elaborate 10 step handshake I observed clearly serves a very different purpose. And all this is Korg's problem now. :-) George |
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