"jeffc" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

This so-called consensus is a fabrication of Harry
Lavo's fevered mind.

You are a complete tool.

Name-calling is the best you can do?

MasochismBorg relishes his whipping of the day.

You are a complete tool.

Name-calling is the best you can do?

I'm sure he'd be glad to bash you with a 2-by-4, but this is Usenet, after
all. You'll have to be satisfied with virtual punishment, you pile of
slimy turds.






--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

"jeffc" wrote in message
. ..

"j." wrote in message
ps.com...

I would also think that it takes some time to get used to the sound of
a system anyway, and I doubt DBTs are long enough to allow for that
(also because of cost). ...but that's another argument and I'm sure
I'm going to catch enough flak for this one already

It's not "another" argument, it's THE argument, just that no one gets it.
DBT *is* the way to go, just not the way most people think of doing it.
You *should* be able to live with your equipment and listen to music over
a long period of time in the privacy of your own home, and at the same
time it should be one long DBT.


Right, the *whole* purpose of having a stereo is to do
one life long DBT with it.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

Arny Krueger wrote:
Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way, other
than when you personally attack me. I'm trying to help, really. Based
on the above, do you see why people are critical of you here? The
"persecution" that you complain about is brought on by your "what's
good for the goose can be ignored by the gander" attitude and actions.
Please, for your own happiness, consider this. I think that you're
probably a good person, but you seem to have a blind spot in this area.
Best wishes to you.

Here's a kind of charity even you can afford to dole out.

Jenn said:

Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite lobotomy ensures that."
Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way, other
than when you personally attack me. I'm trying to help, really. Based
on the above, do you see why people are critical of you here? The
"persecution" that you complain about is brought on by your "what's
good for the goose can be ignored by the gander" attitude and actions.

See how sweetly Jenn phrases her comment so as to completely mask the
subtext?

Please, for your own happiness, consider this. I think that you're
probably a good person, but you seem to have a blind spot in this area.
Best wishes to you.

Arnii Krooger is "probably a good person". Far out, man!

I believe Jenn could sweet-talk a used car dealer into giving full NADA
value on a trade-in.




--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:
Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way, other
than when you personally attack me.

What about me? or George? or Art? or Sander?......

What makes you so special?

I'm trying to help, really. Based
on the above, do you see why people are critical of you here?

This is a very long and well travelled road.
Arny doesn't care.

The
"persecution" that you complain about is brought on by your "what's
good for the goose can be ignored by the gander" attitude and actions.
Please, for your own happiness, consider this.

You don't know what makes him (or anyone for that matter) happy.

I think that you're
probably a good person, but you seem to have a blind spot in this area.

The blindspot is as large as usenet.

Here's my suggestion. Arny is what he is beyond hope of change.
Accept it.
Just make sure your personal standard of behavior for yourself
or your expectation of others (excluding Arny) are not
deviated due to his presence.

Best wishes to you.

and to you,

ScottW

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...



Here's a kind of charity even you can afford to dole out.

Jenn said:

Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite lobotomy ensures that."
Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way, other
than when you personally attack me. I'm trying to help, really. Based
on the above, do you see why people are critical of you here? The
"persecution" that you complain about is brought on by your "what's
good for the goose can be ignored by the gander" attitude and actions.

See how sweetly Jenn phrases her comment so as to completely mask the
subtext?

Yes, you could learn something Mr. Bitter.

ScottW

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:
Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way, other
than when you personally attack me.

What about me? or George? or Art? or Sander?......

What makes you so special?

Nothing. I'm simply trying to lower the noise level in this small way.
Obviously, this kind of message to Arny does no good, but I'm trying
one last time. If anyone else wants to try when they are attacked,
that's fine, or if Arny wants to continue when he's attacked by George,
also fine; I can only change what *I* do.


I'm trying to help, really. Based
on the above, do you see why people are critical of you here?

This is a very long and well travelled road.
Arny doesn't care.

I know; see above.


The
"persecution" that you complain about is brought on by your "what's
good for the goose can be ignored by the gander" attitude and actions.
Please, for your own happiness, consider this.

You don't know what makes him (or anyone for that matter) happy.

I agree, but in my experience, most people are happiest when there is
peace and productivity. Arny may well be the exception.


I think that you're
probably a good person, but you seem to have a blind spot in this area.

The blindspot is as large as usenet.

I understand that.


Here's my suggestion. Arny is what he is beyond hope of change.
Accept it.
Just make sure your personal standard of behavior for yourself
or your expectation of others (excluding Arny) are not
deviated due to his presence.

Agreed.


Best wishes to you.

and to you,

ScottW

"Arny Krueger" said:

wrote in message

Sander deWaal wrote:


a spelling lesson


And the worsd that best describes this post ofyours is,
petty.


It's the best that disciples of Middius can muster. The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that.


And to think that this all started with you commenting on a spelling
error by Harry Lavo.
Petty, hm? Or should I say pity?

Thanks Arny for tacitly admitting that you have had a prerequisite
lobotomy Arny ;-)

BTW where can one find one of your audio designs?

--
"All amps sound alike, but some sound more alike than others".

"Jenn" said:


Arny Krueger wrote:

Name-calling is the best you can do?


"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the above.


Be honest Jenn, that isn't "namecalling".

It's called "digging in deeper and deeper".

--
"All amps sound alike, but some sound more alike than others".

"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:
Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way, other
than when you personally attack me.

What about me? or George? or Art? or Sander?......

What makes you so special?

Nothing. I'm simply trying to lower the noise level in this small way.

I used to think that way.. but the signal level is pretty low as it is.
I've seen groups go stagnant and die when all OT stuff was eliminated.
Sometimes there simply isn't enough OT stuff to keep the group active.

How many times can you interestingly respond to a newb or an
attack on DBT or ABX?


Obviously, this kind of message to Arny does no good, but I'm trying
one last time. If anyone else wants to try when they are attacked,
that's fine, or if Arny wants to continue when he's attacked by George,
also fine; I can only change what *I* do.


I'm trying to help, really. Based
on the above, do you see why people are critical of you here?

This is a very long and well travelled road.
Arny doesn't care.

I know; see above.


The
"persecution" that you complain about is brought on by your "what's
good for the goose can be ignored by the gander" attitude and actions.
Please, for your own happiness, consider this.

You don't know what makes him (or anyone for that matter) happy.

I agree, but in my experience, most people are happiest when there is
peace and productivity. Arny may well be the exception.

Arny and George...IMO. You've seen Georges self declared
reason for being here, haven't you? Opportunity to ridicule.

ScottW

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...

That's a matter of perception, I think.
What I find petty is the endless political posts and - discussions in
an audio newsgroup.

Do you really think audio only content is sufficient to sustain
this group?

I put forth a few audio topics recently and they died quickly
without be explored to any degree IMO.

I'm afraid this group wouldn't be worth visiting on a regular
basis with no off topic material.
I find I can easily keep tabs on RAHE with a weekly visit
and even then... it takes about 2 min to get current.

ScottW

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:
Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way, other
than when you personally attack me.

What about me? or George? or Art? or Sander?......

What makes you so special?

Nothing. I'm simply trying to lower the noise level in this small way.

I used to think that way.. but the signal level is pretty low as it is.
I've seen groups go stagnant and die when all OT stuff was eliminated.
Sometimes there simply isn't enough OT stuff to keep the group active.

How many times can you interestingly respond to a newb or an
attack on DBT or ABX?

Well, one could hope (against hope, I guess) that we could discuss some
OPINIONS about audio and the way it sounds.



Obviously, this kind of message to Arny does no good, but I'm trying
one last time. If anyone else wants to try when they are attacked,
that's fine, or if Arny wants to continue when he's attacked by George,
also fine; I can only change what *I* do.


I'm trying to help, really. Based
on the above, do you see why people are critical of you here?

This is a very long and well travelled road.
Arny doesn't care.

I know; see above.


The
"persecution" that you complain about is brought on by your "what's
good for the goose can be ignored by the gander" attitude and actions.
Please, for your own happiness, consider this.

You don't know what makes him (or anyone for that matter) happy.

I agree, but in my experience, most people are happiest when there is
peace and productivity. Arny may well be the exception.

Arny and George...IMO. You've seen Georges self declared
reason for being here, haven't you? Opportunity to ridicule.

Agreed.

"ScottW" said:


"Sander deWaal" wrote:

That's a matter of perception, I think.
What I find petty is the endless political posts and - discussions in
an audio newsgroup.


Do you really think audio only content is sufficient to sustain
this group?


About as much as RAHE.


I put forth a few audio topics recently and they died quickly
without be explored to any degree IMO.


Too bad, indeed.
For me, the place to discuss audio is in web-based newsgroups.
RAO is just a bad habit I can't quit easily.
I must admit to not being here every day, though.


I'm afraid this group wouldn't be worth visiting on a regular
basis with no off topic material.
I find I can easily keep tabs on RAHE with a weekly visit
and even then... it takes about 2 min to get current.


That's about the same with RAO for me.
I just want to keep track of my old friend Arny ;-)

--
"All amps sound alike, but some sound more alike than others".

"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:
Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the
above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way,
other
than when you personally attack me.

What about me? or George? or Art? or Sander?......

What makes you so special?

Nothing. I'm simply trying to lower the noise level in this small way.

I used to think that way.. but the signal level is pretty low as it is.
I've seen groups go stagnant and die when all OT stuff was eliminated.
Sometimes there simply isn't enough OT stuff to keep the group active.

How many times can you interestingly respond to a newb or an
attack on DBT or ABX?

Well, one could hope (against hope, I guess) that we could discuss some
OPINIONS about audio and the way it sounds.

Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.

And I've always wondered how people think the platter impacts
the sound quality of vinyl reproduction.

ScottW

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"ScottW" said:

I'm afraid this group wouldn't be worth visiting on a regular
basis with no off topic material.
I find I can easily keep tabs on RAHE with a weekly visit
and even then... it takes about 2 min to get current.


That's about the same with RAO for me.
I just want to keep track of my old friend Arny ;-)

You and George....no wonder we can't stick to audio.
So lets talk politics .

ScottW

Witlessmongrel yapped:

You've seen Georges[sic] self[sic] declared
reason for being here, haven't you? Opportunity to ridicule[sic].

Oh, now I get it... You've taken to self-ridicule in order to undercut my
fun and games.

You may well bore me off of RAO, Scooter, but wouldn't that be a Pyrrhic
victory?





--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

Witlessmongrel yapped:

Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.

Arnii has instructed you that turntables are antediluvian proto-technology
that is of no interest to "modern" audiohphiles. Why do you persist in
embracing antiquated machinery when you could save loT"s and LOt"S of
money by throwing that boat anchor into the sea and melting down those
dusty, gritty vinyl anachronisms?




--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:
Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the
above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way,
other
than when you personally attack me.

What about me? or George? or Art? or Sander?......

What makes you so special?

Nothing. I'm simply trying to lower the noise level in this small way.

I used to think that way.. but the signal level is pretty low as it is.
I've seen groups go stagnant and die when all OT stuff was eliminated.
Sometimes there simply isn't enough OT stuff to keep the group active.

How many times can you interestingly respond to a newb or an
attack on DBT or ABX?

Well, one could hope (against hope, I guess) that we could discuss some
OPINIONS about audio and the way it sounds.

Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.

I would too, all things being equal. Of course, if the arm is bad, the
advantages of a good cartidge are wasted. Same with the platter/rest
of the TT.

And I've always wondered how people think the platter impacts
the sound quality of vinyl reproduction.

If the platter/LP interface is poor (vibration, ringing, etc.) the
cartridge/groove interface is compromised, yes?

"ScottW" said:


Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.


In my opinion, arm and cartridge are unseperable.
You're probably old enough to remember the ADC-XLM (first version),
and how very few arms were capable of pulling the full advantage of
its unusually high compliance at that time?
IIRC, only the wooden ADC managed to let it track correctly.
The VLM would have been a far better choice for the majority of
audiophiles at that time.

Arm resonance is a major factor in coloring of the sound.
One needs not only to dampen the resonances, but also to keep it in a
certain frequency range.
It shouldn't interfere with the platter/subchassis resonance, while at
the same time it shouldn't interfere with the lowest audio frequencies
that are on the LP.

This means that the platter/subchassis resonance frequency should be
somewhere in the 4....8 Hz region, and the arm/cart resonance between
8...15 Hz.
That's hard enough to accomplish, even for turntable manufacturers.

In fact, the 3 parts are a holy trinity, each one has influence on the
other.


And I've always wondered how people think the platter impacts
the sound quality of vinyl reproduction.


It does.
Imagine the scale of the stylus movements, and then the unwanted
energy that is "stored" in the record material.
Getting rid of unwanted resonances and vibrations is key in designing
and tweaking turntables.

For Linnies: the difference between bloated bass and mid-bass lies in
the mat.
Replace the standard felt mat with a rubber (or better: a cork) one
and listen for yourself.

--
"All amps sound alike, but some sound more alike than others".

"ScottW" said:


I just want to keep track of my old friend Arny ;-)


You and George....no wonder we can't stick to audio.


Thanks Scott for admitting that a discussion with Arny can't ever be
about audio Scott ;-)


So lets talk politics .


No way.
I know nothing about US politics, I prefer to keep it that way.
And you *really* don't want to discuss Dutch politics (you'd be bored
to death!).

--
"All amps sound alike, but some sound more alike than others".

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"ScottW" said:


Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.


In my opinion, arm and cartridge are unseperable.
You're probably old enough to remember the ADC-XLM (first version),
and how very few arms were capable of pulling the full advantage of
its unusually high compliance at that time?
IIRC, only the wooden ADC managed to let it track correctly.
The VLM would have been a far better choice for the majority of
audiophiles at that time.

Arm resonance is a major factor in coloring of the sound.
One needs not only to dampen the resonances, but also to keep it in a
certain frequency range.
It shouldn't interfere with the platter/subchassis resonance, while at
the same time it shouldn't interfere with the lowest audio frequencies
that are on the LP.

This means that the platter/subchassis resonance frequency should be
somewhere in the 4....8 Hz region, and the arm/cart resonance between
8...15 Hz.
That's hard enough to accomplish, even for turntable manufacturers.

In fact, the 3 parts are a holy trinity, each one has influence on the
other.


And I've always wondered how people think the platter impacts
the sound quality of vinyl reproduction.


It does.
Imagine the scale of the stylus movements, and then the unwanted
energy that is "stored" in the record material.

You think vinyl is capable of storing energy or the whole
platter/record mass?

Getting rid of unwanted resonances and vibrations is key in designing
and tweaking turntables.

For Linnies: the difference between bloated bass and mid-bass lies in
the mat.
Replace the standard felt mat with a rubber (or better: a cork) one
and listen for yourself.

Actually, I don't think I ever heard one. I know that on
my AR (which has about the simplest platter bearing I've seen)
and my Mitsu (direct drive)... platter matts have no audible impact
to me.

ScottW

"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:
Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the
above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way,
other
than when you personally attack me.

What about me? or George? or Art? or Sander?......

What makes you so special?

Nothing. I'm simply trying to lower the noise level in this small
way.

I used to think that way.. but the signal level is pretty low as it
is.
I've seen groups go stagnant and die when all OT stuff was eliminated.
Sometimes there simply isn't enough OT stuff to keep the group active.

How many times can you interestingly respond to a newb or an
attack on DBT or ABX?

Well, one could hope (against hope, I guess) that we could discuss some
OPINIONS about audio and the way it sounds.

Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.

I would too, all things being equal. Of course, if the arm is bad, the
advantages of a good cartidge are wasted. Same with the platter/rest
of the TT.

And I've always wondered how people think the platter impacts
the sound quality of vinyl reproduction.

If the platter/LP interface is poor (vibration, ringing, etc.) the
cartridge/groove interface is compromised, yes?

Theoretically... but it takes a bit of energy to start
any resonance and the forces applied by a stylus
are quite small on a relatively large mass....

ScottW

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"ScottW" said:


I just want to keep track of my old friend Arny ;-)


You and George....no wonder we can't stick to audio.


Thanks Scott for admitting that a discussion with Arny can't ever be
about audio Scott ;-)


So lets talk politics .


No way.
I know nothing about US politics, I prefer to keep it that way.
And you *really* don't want to discuss Dutch politics (you'd be bored
to death!).

Actually as it reacts to Islamic militants and fundamentalists...I would be
interested.

ScottW

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Witlessmongrel yapped:

You've seen Georges[sic] self[sic] declared
reason for being here, haven't you? Opportunity to ridicule[sic].

Oh, now I get it... You've taken to self-ridicule in order to undercut my
fun and games.

You may well bore me off of RAO, Scooter,

I'm going to make you [sic].

ScottW

In article ,
Sander deWaal wrote:

For Linnies: the difference between bloated bass and mid-bass lies in
the mat.
Replace the standard felt mat with a rubber (or better: a cork) one
and listen for yourself.

This is less of a problem in recent Linns (post-Cirkus mod).

Stephen

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Witlessmongrel yapped:

Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.

Arnii has instructed you that turntables are antediluvian proto-technology
that is of no interest to "modern" audiohphiles. Why do you persist in
embracing antiquated machinery when you could save loT"s and LOt"S of
money by throwing that boat anchor into the sea and melting down those
dusty, gritty vinyl anachronisms?

Why would you **** all over this little thread in your Arny emulation
rather than participate constructively?

ScottW

Witlessmongrel yapped:

Arnii has instructed you that turntables are antediluvian proto-technology
that is of no interest to "modern" audiohphiles. Why do you persist in
embracing antiquated machinery when you could save loT"s and LOt"S of
money by throwing that boat anchor into the sea and melting down those
dusty, gritty vinyl anachronisms?

Why would you **** all over this little thread in your Arny emulation
rather than participate constructively?

I made a new thread, dimbulb. Go have your "constructive" exchange with
the other vinyl enthusiasts and just ignore my instigations. Oh wait, you
can't ignore them. You can't ignore anything.




--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

ScottW wrote:
"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Witlessmongrel yapped:

Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.

Arnii has instructed you that turntables are antediluvian proto-technology
that is of no interest to "modern" audiohphiles. Why do you persist in
embracing antiquated machinery when you could save loT"s and LOt"S of
money by throwing that boat anchor into the sea and melting down those
dusty, gritty vinyl anachronisms?

Why would you **** all over this little thread in your Arny emulation
rather than participate constructively?

Good question.

Jenn said:

Good question.

Actually, a stupid question.



--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

Clyde Slick wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...

Or you could just realize that to be anti-ABX is to be truly blind to
the facts.


No, we are well aware of the fact, the fact that you have never set up,
run, nor even participated in any such test, yourself.

Idiot.

dippyborg whined:

No, we are well aware of the fact, the fact that you have never set up,
run, nor even participated in any such test, yourself.

Idiot.

Clyde is only an idiot about politics. In this instance, he is 100%
correct. duh-Mikey has never come within a hundred miles of an actual
aBxism ritual.

How many DBTs have you participated in, dippy? Give us some details to
substantiate your blind loyalty to this chimera. When were the "tests"
conducted? Who proctored them? What audio equipment was "tested"? Were the
results published? On what basis do you purport to generalize the results
to all consumers and all equipment?

Don't be afraid. We love facts.





--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

"ScottW" wrote in message
newslCng.22260$8q.10290@dukeread08...

"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:
Name-calling is the best you can do?

"The pre-requisite
lobotomy ensures that." Arny, exactly 1 min. before posting the
above.

Arny, I promise that this is the last time I'll post in this way,
other
than when you personally attack me.

What about me? or George? or Art? or Sander?......

What makes you so special?

Nothing. I'm simply trying to lower the noise level in this small
way.

I used to think that way.. but the signal level is pretty low as it is.
I've seen groups go stagnant and die when all OT stuff was eliminated.
Sometimes there simply isn't enough OT stuff to keep the group active.

How many times can you interestingly respond to a newb or an
attack on DBT or ABX?

Well, one could hope (against hope, I guess) that we could discuss some
OPINIONS about audio and the way it sounds.

Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.

And I've always wondered how people think the platter impacts
the sound quality of vinyl reproduction.

I'd agree with your ranking.

As for platters:

* First, they contribute mass, or lack thereof. And in general, higher mass
translates to better speed stability and less ringing (as does better
balance with a given mass).
* Secondly some *do* ring. Among other things this can lead to
overemphasized response within the oerall bass response and midrange, and to
lesser clarity in the overall sound. My Thorens TD-160 Super required a
"GlassMat" replacement mat to settle down the platter.

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"ScottW" said:


Yeah... like if had to break down a TT into 3 parts..
Cartridge, arm, platter.
How would you rank their impact to sound quality?
I placed 'em in my order.


In my opinion, arm and cartridge are unseperable.
You're probably old enough to remember the ADC-XLM (first version),
and how very few arms were capable of pulling the full advantage of
its unusually high compliance at that time?
IIRC, only the wooden ADC managed to let it track correctly.
The VLM would have been a far better choice for the majority of
audiophiles at that time.

I used it with the Pritchard wood arm and later an SME III, but the Black
Widow was a good match, and either the Rabco ST-4 or SL-8 straight line
trackers did well with it at the time of it's launch. They were followed a
few years later by the SME III, which also did exceptionally well with it..
The Black Widow/XLM was TAS's original recommended match, I seem to recall.
HP never tested the Pritchard arm. If he had, he would not have liked it as
the coupling of headshell to arm was quite flimsy and loose. I ended up
glueing mine to get some rigidity.


Arm resonance is a major factor in coloring of the sound.
One needs not only to dampen the resonances, but also to keep it in a
certain frequency range.
It shouldn't interfere with the platter/subchassis resonance, while at
the same time it shouldn't interfere with the lowest audio frequencies
that are on the LP.

This means that the platter/subchassis resonance frequency should be
somewhere in the 4....8 Hz region, and the arm/cart resonance between
8...15 Hz.
That's hard enough to accomplish, even for turntable manufacturers.

In fact, the 3 parts are a holy trinity, each one has influence on the
other.

Absolutely correct, IME.



And I've always wondered how people think the platter impacts
the sound quality of vinyl reproduction.


It does.
Imagine the scale of the stylus movements, and then the unwanted
energy that is "stored" in the record material.
Getting rid of unwanted resonances and vibrations is key in designing
and tweaking turntables.

For Linnies: the difference between bloated bass and mid-bass lies in
the mat.
Replace the standard felt mat with a rubber (or better: a cork) one
and listen for yourself.

I never felt compelled to make a change on the Linn, but I did on my second
TT, a Thorens TD-160. For the same reason.

"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...


You don't know what makes him (or anyone for that matter) happy.

I agree, but in my experience, most people are happiest when there is
peace and productivity. Arny may well be the exception.


Most people are sane
Arny is not.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDem

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:06Cng.22257$8q.10790@dukeread08...

Arny and George...IMO. You've seen Georges self declared
reason for being here, haven't you? Opportunity to ridicule.



Its fun!



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDem

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:14:58 -0700, "ScottW"
wrote:


Just make sure your personal standard of behavior for yourself

Tautology! Personal is for yourself.

(Just thought you'd like to know that. :-))

or your expectation of others (excluding Arny) are not
deviated due to his presence.

Deviated? I thought only septums were deviated.

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:12:34 -0700, "ScottW"
wrote:


You may well bore me off of RAO, Scooter,

I'm going to make you [sic].

That's quite good, Scott. I chuckled momentarily. George may have
underestimated you.

"dizzy" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick wrote:

wrote in message
groups.com...

Or you could just realize that to be anti-ABX is to be truly blind to
the facts.


No, we are well aware of the fact, the fact that you have never set up,
run, nor even participated in any such test, yourself.

Idiot.


evidently, you haven't, either.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDem

Clyde Slick wrote:

"dizzy" wrote in message

Clyde Slick wrote:

wrote in message

Or you could just realize that to be anti-ABX is to be truly blind to
the facts.

No, we are well aware of the fact, the fact that you have never set up,
run, nor even participated in any such test, yourself.

Idiot.

evidently, you haven't, either.

Idiot.