[Cheesehead]

When I use it in equalized mode there is no hum. But the output level
is too low.
So I switched mode and connected it to the phono input. Now the level
is right but there is a clear hum.

I checked the power line and nothing is plugged in backward.

Anyone have a fix?

[Bob McDonald]

Check to ensure that everything is grounded, especially with the phono
input. Remember that the phono input is a low level input as compared to the
others so you may be overdriving it.


"Cheesehead" wrote in message
...
When I use it in equalized mode there is no hum. But the output level
is too low.
So I switched mode and connected it to the phono input. Now the level
is right but there is a clear hum.

I checked the power line and nothing is plugged in backward.

Anyone have a fix?

[Greg Wormald[_2_]]

In article ,
"Bob McDonald" wrote:

Check to ensure that everything is grounded, especially with the phono
input. Remember that the phono input is a low level input as compared to the
others so you may be overdriving it.


"Cheesehead" wrote in message
...
When I use it in equalized mode there is no hum. But the output level
is too low.
So I switched mode and connected it to the phono input. Now the level
is right but there is a clear hum.

I checked the power line and nothing is plugged in backward.

Anyone have a fix?

Also, if there is a separate ground wire from the turntable to the pre,
try with that both disconnected and connected. Some turntables are
grounded via the interconnects and a separate grounding can cause a
ground loop hum, some need the separate connection.

Greg

[bob]

I've heard a number of complaints about that turntable and hum. I
believe it doesn't come with a grounding cord, but maybe somebody
could help you rig one up.

Alternatively, use the onboard equalizer, and turn up the volume. Or
perhaps try a different phono preamp, although there's no guarantee
that'll solve the problem.

bob

[Arny Krueger]

"Cheesehead" wrote in message


When I use it in equalized mode there is no hum. But the
output level is too low.

Too low for what?

How much is it too low?

So I switched mode and connected it to the phono input.
Now the level is right but there is a clear hum.

The equalized output of this inexpensive turntable is not designed for
connection to a phono input.

Phono inputs are basically massive bass boosters, so of course any hum will
be magnified.

I checked the power line and nothing is plugged in
backward.

Anyone have a fix?

You need something with a more sensitive, but unequalized input.

Check this source out, under "boosters"

http://www.phonopreamps.com/

[Cheesehead]

On Mar 1, 9:50=A0pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Cheesehead" wrote in message



When I use it in equalized mode there is no hum. =A0But the
output level is too low.

Too low for what?

How much is it too low?

So I switched mode and connected it to the phono input.
Now the level is right but there is a clear hum.

The equalized output of this inexpensive turntable =A0 is not designed fo=
r
connection to a phono input.

Phono inputs are basically massive bass boosters, so of course any hum wi=
ll
be magnified.

I checked the power line and nothing is plugged in
backward.
Anyone have a fix?

You need something with a more sensitive, but unequalized input.

Check this source out, under "boosters"

http://www.phonopreamps.com/

I guess I considered this a quality mid-range turntable rather than an
inexpensive unit. It's not like it's a BSR or BIC.

By the output level being "too low" I mean that it (a) mismatches
other components and therefore (b) does not allow a good CD burn on my
Philips CD unit.

I'm going to give it a look-over to see if there is a place where I
can find a place to attach a ground wire.

And thanks for the link. Perhaps a quality pre-amp is all I really
need.

[bob]

On Mar 2, 9:13=A0am, Cheesehead wrote:
On Mar 1, 9:50=3DA0pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

I guess I considered this a quality mid-range turntable rather than an
inexpensive unit. =A0It's not like it's a BSR or BIC.

It's the next step up from the all-plastic $100 model with the fixed
cartridge that tracks at 4g. Probably equivalent to the so-called
entry-level turntables from Rega, Pro-Ject, Music Hall, etc.

By the output level being "too low" I mean that it (a) mismatches
other components and therefore (b) does not allow a good CD burn on my
Philips CD unit.

But what does (a) mean, exactly? When you switch in the equalization
and connect it to a line input on your receiver/amp, can you not get
the volume level you want? Or is it just that you have to turn the
volume up higher than you do for other source components? If the
latter, that's normal.

As for (b), I presume your connection is:

turntable=3Dreceiver/amp=3DCD recorder

....and that you're connecting to the recorder through a Tape Out jack.
Does your receiver/amp also have a preamp out? If so, try using that
instead. That way, you can turn the volume up.

Otherwise, you might try either a phono preamp with higher gain, or a
booster, as Arny suggested.

bob

[Audio Empire]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 06:13:26 -0800, Cheesehead wrote
(in article ):

On Mar 1, 9:50=A0pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Cheesehead" wrote in message



When I use it in equalized mode there is no hum. =A0But the
output level is too low.

Too low for what?

How much is it too low?

So I switched mode and connected it to the phono input.
Now the level is right but there is a clear hum.

The equalized output of this inexpensive turntable =A0 is not designed fo=
r
connection to a phono input.

Phono inputs are basically massive bass boosters, so of course any hum wi=
ll
be magnified.

I checked the power line and nothing is plugged in
backward.
Anyone have a fix?

You need something with a more sensitive, but unequalized input.

Check this source out, under "boosters"

http://www.phonopreamps.com/

I guess I considered this a quality mid-range turntable rather than an
inexpensive unit. It's not like it's a BSR or BIC.

What we really need to know about before anyone can be of much help is what
kind (brand and model) of phono cartridge you have. If it's a moving-magnet
type (MM) (or moving-iron) type, then you need to use the phono input because
these cartridges are purposely rather low output compared to the other,
so-called, "line-level" inputs designed for CD decks, tuners, tape players,
etc. If it's a crystal or ceramic cartridge (which I doubt-haven't seen one
of those for decades), then it would go into one of the line inputs and not
the phono input.

By the output level being "too low" I mean that it (a) mismatches
other components and therefore (b) does not allow a good CD burn on my
Philips CD unit.

Magnetic cartridges have low outputs in relation to other components. That's
why the phono input is marked for phono only. When you plug the turntable
into the phono inputs on your amp/receiver, do you have to turn the volume up
real high in order to hear it? Is that when you get hum? IOW, does it hum
when you turn the volume to same setting on the control that gives you decent
volume and NO HUM with other components (FM, CD, Tape)?

If the answer is yes, you do have to turn the volume control up inordinately
high to get decent volume, then you might have a moving-coil (MC) cartridge.
If this is the case, your phono input probably doesn't have enough gain.
Telling us the make and model of the cartridge you are using, should give us
that information

I'm going to give it a look-over to see if there is a place where I
can find a place to attach a ground wire.

And thanks for the link. Perhaps a quality pre-amp is all I really
need..

It's possible, BUT, unless you happen to have a low-output moving-coil, it's
probably NOT your problem. With most MM or Variable Reluctance cartridges,
the built-in phono stage in your receiver or amplifier should be more than
sufficient. If you get plenty of output from your cartridge and sufficient
gain from your phono stage to give you decent volume at normal volume control
settings, then the problem you have is a grounding issue and most likely a
new phono stage would hum just as badly as the one you have now. In most
situations, you MUST have a grounding wire that goes from the tone-arm
mounting base itself to the grounding lug (usually that's a finger-screw)
located near the phono inputs on the back of your receiver/amplifier. That's
likely the problem with your hum. But really, I need more info before I can
say anything for sure.

[bob]

On Mar 2, 4:20=A0pm, Audio Empire wrote:

What we really need to know about before anyone can be of much help is wh=
at
kind (brand and model) of phono cartridge you have. If it's a moving-magn=
et
type (MM) (or moving-iron) type, then you need to use the phono input bec=
ause
these cartridges are purposely rather low output compared to the other,
so-called, "line-level" inputs designed for CD decks, tuners, tape player=
s,
etc.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with his turntable. It has a built-in
switchable phono stage, so he does NOT necessarily have to use the
phono input in his receiver. He gets a hum when he uses the receiver's
phono stage, but not when he uses the table's stage. But he's
complaining about low volume using the table's stage.

bob

[Cheesehead]

On Mar 2, 4:20=A0pm, Audio Empire wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 06:13:26 -0800, Cheesehead wrote
(in article ):



On Mar 1, 9:50=3DA0pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Cheesehead" wrote in message



When I use it in equalized mode there is no hum. =3DA0But the
output level is too low.


[ Please trim your quotes. Excessive quotation snipped. -- dsr ]


And thanks for the link. =A0Perhaps a quality pre-amp is all I really
need..

It's possible, BUT, unless you happen to have a low-output moving-coil, i=
t's
probably NOT your problem. With most MM or Variable Reluctance cartridges=
,
the built-in phono stage in your receiver or amplifier should be more tha=
n
sufficient. If you get plenty of output from your cartridge and sufficien=
t
gain from your phono stage to give you decent volume at normal volume con=
trol
settings, then the problem you have is a grounding issue and most likely =
a
new phono stage would hum just as badly as the one you have now. In most
situations, you MUST have a grounding wire that goes from the tone-arm
mounting base itself to the grounding lug (usually that's a finger-screw)
located near the phono inputs on the back of your receiver/amplifier. Tha=
t's
likely the problem with your hum. But really, I need more info before I c=
an
say anything for sure.

It is a MM cartridge. It is the stock unit that came with the table.
Nothing special, but adequate.

I actually picked it up unused, at a local thrift shop for an amazing
$20.
It replaced my Dual 505-2. Though they seemed to have similar
performance,
the Denon fit my location better even though the Dual's wood was much
more attractive.
I realize it's not a Linn or similar grade, but is still much better
than the BICs
that I had in the 80s.

But I wonder if the equalization does not include the amplification
that I assume it ought.
(Or ate least ought at least by *my estimation*, anyway.)
In that case the problem can be resolved easily with a pre-amp, as
bob, et al, have noted.
But that still leaves the hum issue, though it now appears avoidable.

[Cheesehead]

On Mar 2, 10:58=A0am, bob wrote:
On Mar 2, 9:13=3DA0am, Cheesehead wrote:

On Mar 1, 9:50=3D3DA0pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
I guess I considered this a quality mid-range turntable rather than an
inexpensive unit. =3DA0It's not like it's a BSR or BIC.

It's the next step up from the all-plastic $100 model with the fixed
cartridge that tracks at 4g. Probably equivalent to the so-called
entry-level turntables from Rega, Pro-Ject, Music Hall, etc.

By the output level being "too low" I mean that it (a) mismatches
other components and therefore (b) does not allow a good CD burn on my
Philips CD unit.

But what does (a) mean, exactly? When you switch in the equalization
and connect it to a line input on your receiver/amp, can you not get
the volume level you want? Or is it just that you have to turn the
volume up higher than you do for other source components? If the
latter, that's normal.

As for (b), I presume your connection is:

turntable=3D3Dreceiver/amp=3D3DCD recorder

...and that you're connecting to the recorder through a Tape Out jack.
Does your receiver/amp also have a preamp out? If so, try using that
instead. That way, you can turn the volume up.

Otherwise, you might try either a phono preamp with higher gain, or a
booster, as Arny suggested.

bob

Perhaps I misjudged the group understanding of "high-end" and should
have given more consideration to it as the highest end of audio
equipment discussions.
Over the past 30 years I've had a variety of quality components, but
only one amplifier from the highet end of the spectrum, a Mac 60.
My last speaker purchase was a pair of Wharfedale W90D speakers.
Certainly not "high end" like some Dahlquists or others of that sort,
but still quite nice, enough
that I could note the amplifier (a mere Sony) as the weak link in the
system. My current listening pleasure has been an old favorite LP
form 75: Parchment Shamblejam.

But enough of the apologetic.

My system is hooked up as you noted.
The amp unfortunately has no preamp out.
I just finished looking at the referenced pre-amps.
One of those would fit the bill quite nicely.

[Audio Empire]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:52:42 -0800, bob wrote
(in article ):

On Mar 2, 4:20=A0pm, Audio Empire wrote:

What we really need to know about before anyone can be of much help is wh=
at
kind (brand and model) of phono cartridge you have. If it's a moving-magn=
et
type (MM) (or moving-iron) type, then you need to use the phono input bec=
ause
these cartridges are purposely rather low output compared to the other,
so-called, "line-level" inputs designed for CD decks, tuners, tape player=
s,
etc.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with his turntable. It has a built-in
switchable phono stage, so he does NOT necessarily have to use the
phono input in his receiver. He gets a hum when he uses the receiver's
phono stage, but not when he uses the table's stage. But he's
complaining about low volume using the table's stage.

bob


Yes, you are right, I'm not familiar with this turntable. But if it contains
it's own phono-stage and using a high-level input on his receiver/amp results
in insufficient gain, then adding another phono stage isn't going to solve
his problem (likely the phono-stage in the turntable already has RIAA EQ
applied) and, in all probability, his main problem is most likely that the
turntable's built-in phono-stage is faulty. The next problem is how to patch
around that faulty stage so that he can use the phono stage built into his
receiver/amplifier instead.

[Audio Empire]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:54:36 -0800, Cheesehead wrote
(in article ):

On Mar 2, 4:20=A0pm, Audio Empire wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 06:13:26 -0800, Cheesehead wrote
(in article ):



On Mar 1, 9:50=3DA0pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Cheesehead" wrote in message



When I use it in equalized mode there is no hum. =3DA0But the
output level is too low.


[ Please trim your quotes. Excessive quotation snipped. -- dsr ]


And thanks for the link. =A0Perhaps a quality pre-amp is all I really
need..

It's possible, BUT, unless you happen to have a low-output moving-coil, i=
t's
probably NOT your problem. With most MM or Variable Reluctance cartridges=
,
the built-in phono stage in your receiver or amplifier should be more tha=
n
sufficient. If you get plenty of output from your cartridge and sufficien=
t
gain from your phono stage to give you decent volume at normal volume con=
trol
settings, then the problem you have is a grounding issue and most likely =
a
new phono stage would hum just as badly as the one you have now. In most
situations, you MUST have a grounding wire that goes from the tone-arm
mounting base itself to the grounding lug (usually that's a finger-screw)
located near the phono inputs on the back of your receiver/amplifier. Tha=
t's
likely the problem with your hum. But really, I need more info before I c=
an
say anything for sure.

It is a MM cartridge. It is the stock unit that came with the table.
Nothing special, but adequate.

I actually picked it up unused, at a local thrift shop for an amazing
$20.
It replaced my Dual 505-2. Though they seemed to have similar
performance,
the Denon fit my location better even though the Dual's wood was much
more attractive.
I realize it's not a Linn or similar grade, but is still much better
than the BICs
that I had in the 80s.

But I wonder if the equalization does not include the amplification
that I assume it ought.

Of course it does. If it has its own built-in phono stage (someone just told
me what this particular rig actually is. I had never heard of it before), it
was designed to plug into high-level inputs on a receiver or amplifier. Since
those NEVER have RIAA EQ built in, the phono-stage in the turntable would
HAVE to contain it.

(Or ate least ought at least by *my estimation*, anyway.)
In that case the problem can be resolved easily with a pre-amp, as
bob, et al, have noted.
But that still leaves the hum issue, though it now appears avoidable.

The problem would seem to me to be one of how to eliminate the built-in phono
stage and break out a pair of phono cables (plus a ground wire) from the
bottom of the tone arm for connection to a an outboard phono stage (or the
phono input on your receiver/amplifier). If you are knowledgeable about such
things and handy with a soldering iron, you should be able to do it though.

If you feel that you still want a new outboard phono-stage, you can't beat
the Audio Technica AT-PEQ3 from David Raskin's Needle Doctor for $43. It is
really excellent.

[Harry Lavo]

"Audio Empire" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:52:42 -0800, bob wrote
(in article ):

On Mar 2, 4:20=A0pm, Audio Empire wrote:

What we really need to know about before anyone can be of much help is
wh=
at
kind (brand and model) of phono cartridge you have. If it's a
moving-magn=
et
type (MM) (or moving-iron) type, then you need to use the phono input
bec=
ause
these cartridges are purposely rather low output compared to the other,
so-called, "line-level" inputs designed for CD decks, tuners, tape
player=
s,
etc.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with his turntable. It has a built-in
switchable phono stage, so he does NOT necessarily have to use the
phono input in his receiver. He gets a hum when he uses the receiver's
phono stage, but not when he uses the table's stage. But he's
complaining about low volume using the table's stage.

bob


Yes, you are right, I'm not familiar with this turntable. But if it
contains
it's own phono-stage and using a high-level input on his receiver/amp
results
in insufficient gain, then adding another phono stage isn't going to solve
his problem (likely the phono-stage in the turntable already has RIAA EQ
applied) and, in all probability, his main problem is most likely that
the
turntable's built-in phono-stage is faulty. The next problem is how to
patch
around that faulty stage so that he can use the phono stage built into his
receiver/amplifier instead.

It may not be faulty....it is probably designed to input a computer sound
card...which in general use signals lower than traditional line level.
Doesn't change his problem, though.