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  #1  
Old April 19th 17, 12:05 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,151
Default [CM] Headphones

On 23/02/2017 3:00 PM, RS Wood wrote:
> From the «blocking out the madness» department:
> Title: Ask The Wirecutter: How to Decide Which Headphones to Buy (Hint: Not Apple’s AirPods)
> Author: DAMON DARLIN
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 11:10:36 -0500
> Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/te...er=rss&emc=rss
> Podcast Download URL: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017...WIRE1-moth.jpg
>
> With so many choices available, shopping for earphones can be daunting. A
> headphone editor suggests buying two cheaper pairs suited to different needs.
>


Kind of depends if you want headphones for high quality sound, or as a
fashion accessory.

geoff

Ads
  #2  
Old April 19th 17, 01:30 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Adrian Caspersz
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Posts: 2
Default [CM] Headphones

On 19/04/17 12:05, geoff wrote:

> Kind of depends if you want headphones for high quality sound, or as a
> fashion accessory.


Or as a covert DIY hearing aid ..

The future is going to see them rather prominent and fashionable like
eyewear, and additionally integrated with the music/phone (possibly that
made the user deaf in the first place[1]).

On that subject, like a prescription for glasses, is there a written
standard of writing one for hearing aids?

With the rip-off shameful high cost of some of these (thousands) praying
on folks that want them so covert, surely a home build DSP project
(opensource?) is possible with knowledge of the right parameters? or use
of a cheaper Generic device for sale?

[1] - Shouldn't joke. That will eventually be me.... Loud electronica
music fan here.

--
Adrian C
  #3  
Old April 19th 17, 07:55 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Mike Spencer
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Posts: 1
Default [CM] Headphones


Adrian Caspersz > writes:

> On 19/04/17 12:05, geoff wrote:
>
>> Kind of depends if you want headphones for high quality sound, or as a
>> fashion accessory.

>
> Or as a covert DIY hearing aid ..
>
> The future is going to see them rather prominent and fashionable like
> eyewear, and additionally integrated with the music/phone (possibly that
> made the user deaf in the first place[1]).


AFAICT the circuit design and tuning controls are sophisticated,
albeit straigtforward, electronics but the big bucks are for fitting
all that into a widget the size of a fava bean.

I'd be happy to wear headphones or earbuds and carry a widget the size
of a large cell phone if it worked for my hearing loss and cost a few
hundred bucks instead of the ca. $2,000 per ear.

> On that subject, like a prescription for glasses, is there a written
> standard of writing one for hearing aids?


Bandwidth tuning, noise cancellation -- what else? See
"sophisticated" supra. I'm guessing that "adjusting" a modern hearing
aid is done by connecting it to a computer and proprietary software.
They're too small to support an array of little adjusting screws.

> With the rip-off shameful high cost of some of these (thousands) praying
> on folks that want them so covert, surely a home build DSP project
> (opensource?) is possible with knowledge of the right parameters? or use
> of a cheaper Generic device for sale?


Where's this happening? I high-frequency loss, speech discrimination
loss and tinitis. But I'm weak on serious math and know almost noting
about electronic hardware. There was a brief flurry of interest in
DSP projects in Halifax (NS) circa 1994 but I think it's faded away.


> [1] - Shouldn't joke. That will eventually be me.... Loud electronica
> music fan here.


Wroking around loud engines, running power tools and hammering at the
anvil are quite enough, thanks, without rock n' roll.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
  #4  
Old April 19th 17, 08:14 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
The Real Bev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default [CM] Headphones

On 04/19/2017 11:55 AM, Mike Spencer wrote:
> Adrian Caspersz > writes:
>
>> On 19/04/17 12:05, geoff wrote:
>>
>>> Kind of depends if you want headphones for high quality sound, or as a
>>> fashion accessory.

>>
>> Or as a covert DIY hearing aid ..
>>
>> The future is going to see them rather prominent and fashionable like
>> eyewear, and additionally integrated with the music/phone (possibly that
>> made the user deaf in the first place[1]).

>
> AFAICT the circuit design and tuning controls are sophisticated,
> albeit straigtforward, electronics but the big bucks are for fitting
> all that into a widget the size of a fava bean.
>
> I'd be happy to wear headphones or earbuds and carry a widget the size
> of a large cell phone if it worked for my hearing loss and cost a few
> hundred bucks instead of the ca. $2,000 per ear.


FWIW, the $2K ones aren't necessarily good either. My mom had hers
adjusted repeatedly, but they never got it right. All she wanted was to
be able to understand the women on TV, but the adjustments to improve
higher voices also heightened annoying higher-frequency sounds. That
was in 2005, maybe the tech is better now. Equalizers have been around
for quite a while, though.

I don't think the fact that they're made from a mold of the person's ear
canal is important. I asked my ENT guy about using hers if I ever
needed them, and he said Fine, just have them adjusted for you. Not
much hope, but it won't cost $2K/ear to try!

>> On that subject, like a prescription for glasses, is there a written
>> standard of writing one for hearing aids?

>
> Bandwidth tuning, noise cancellation -- what else? See
> "sophisticated" supra. I'm guessing that "adjusting" a modern hearing
> aid is done by connecting it to a computer and proprietary software.
> They're too small to support an array of little adjusting screws.


Yes. There's just an on/off switch on the device itself.

>> With the rip-off shameful high cost of some of these (thousands) praying
>> on folks that want them so covert, surely a home build DSP project
>> (opensource?) is possible with knowledge of the right parameters? or use
>> of a cheaper Generic device for sale?

>
> Where's this happening? I high-frequency loss, speech discrimination
> loss and tinitis. But I'm weak on serious math and know almost noting
> about electronic hardware. There was a brief flurry of interest in
> DSP projects in Halifax (NS) circa 1994 but I think it's faded away.
>
>
>> [1] - Shouldn't joke. That will eventually be me.... Loud electronica
>> music fan here.

>
> Wroking around loud engines, running power tools and hammering at the
> anvil are quite enough, thanks, without rock n' roll.


I do love the sound of an unmuffled helicopter taking off. R&R hasn't
been that good since the Beatles destroyed it.

--
Cheers, Bev
"The last thing you want is for somebody to commit suicide
before executing them."
-Gary Deland, former Utah director for corrections
  #5  
Old April 20th 17, 01:06 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Michael Black[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default [CM] Headphones

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 04/19/2017 11:55 AM, Mike Spencer wrote:
>> Adrian Caspersz > writes:
>>
>>> On 19/04/17 12:05, geoff wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kind of depends if you want headphones for high quality sound, or as a
>>>> fashion accessory.
>>>
>>> Or as a covert DIY hearing aid ..
>>>
>>> The future is going to see them rather prominent and fashionable like
>>> eyewear, and additionally integrated with the music/phone (possibly that
>>> made the user deaf in the first place[1]).

>>
>> AFAICT the circuit design and tuning controls are sophisticated,
>> albeit straigtforward, electronics but the big bucks are for fitting
>> all that into a widget the size of a fava bean.
>>
>> I'd be happy to wear headphones or earbuds and carry a widget the size
>> of a large cell phone if it worked for my hearing loss and cost a few
>> hundred bucks instead of the ca. $2,000 per ear.

>
> FWIW, the $2K ones aren't necessarily good either. My mom had hers adjusted
> repeatedly, but they never got it right. All she wanted was to be able to
> understand the women on TV, but the adjustments to improve higher voices also
> heightened annoying higher-frequency sounds. That was in 2005, maybe the
> tech is better now. Equalizers have been around for quite a while, though.
>
> I don't think the fact that they're made from a mold of the person's ear
> canal is important. I asked my ENT guy about using hers if I ever needed
> them, and he said Fine, just have them adjusted for you. Not much hope, but
> it won't cost $2K/ear to try!
>

I think early hearing aids used actual transducers like those that used to
come with transistor radios. But somewhere along the line, the transducer
stayed in the hearing aid (certainly after the ones that fit over or in
the ear), and so there's just audio coupling to the ear. The fitting of
the piece to one's ear just seems comfort, and I maybe for best coupling.
Now that all the rock stars are using in-ear monitors, they all have
custom fitted ear pieces.

I wonder if the hearing aids now have become like other things, they make
the hardware really cheap, and it applies to all, but the more money you
spend, the better the software or adjustment. Or featurs kick in as the
money paid rises, but it's the software that makes this hearing aid better
than that one, rather than the hardware.

Michael
  #6  
Old April 20th 17, 10:34 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Trevor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,624
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 20/04/2017 11:49 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
> The Real Bev > writes:
>> FWIW, the $2K ones aren't necessarily good either.

> Some are even more. Mine were.


You can actually pay well over $5K each. They are better of course, but
a complete bloody rip off! Much of the cost goes to the Audiologists
retirement fund.


>> My mom had hers adjusted repeatedly, but they never got it right.
>> she wanted was to be able to understand the women on TV, but the
>> adjustments to improve higher voices also heightened annoying
>> higher-frequency sounds. That was in 2005, maybe the tech is better
>> now. Equalizers have been around for quite a while, though.

>
> Hearing aids don't just pump up the volume on frequencies you can't
> hear. I'm not an expert, but I do know it takes time to adjust to
> hearing aids, so I assume there is frequency shifting going on. More
> than that, the hearing aid "knows" what kind of sound situation you >
> are in. Mine reports things like:
>
> listening to music
> driving
> crowded room
> TV
>
> So, they are pretty far from an equalizer.


Actually they are just an amplifier, active equaliser and compressor
with various stored custom settings like the ones you mention.
What really ****es me off is that it is so simple now to have Bluetooth
control from your mobile phone over all parameters of a hearing aid.
Sadly there are no aids available that do that simply because the
Audiologists want to keep their huge profits from fitting and adjusting
the aids. And some of the ones that do have control over volume and mode
settings via Bluetooth only work with iPhones because they are too slack
to write the apps for Android.



>> I don't think the fact that they're made from a mold of the person's
>> ear canal is important.


If they are in ear types it sure is, Everybody's ear canal is different
and they often won't fit or will be very uncomfortable if they do.


>> I asked my ENT guy about using hers if I ever
>> needed them, and he said Fine, just have them adjusted for you. Not
>> much hope, but it won't cost $2K/ear to try!

>
> One of the harder parts about wearing them is the discomfort after
> wearing them for hours. If they sell models with generic shape
> give them a try. What do you have to loose?
>
> Hearing aids are much cheaper if you get one with the battery behind
> the ear and a little wire and plug.


You can in fact buy *proper* aids from companies like Resound and
Siemens brand new on ebay for less than $200. Not their top of the line
models of course. Sadly the prices seem to increase exponentially for
minor improvements.

  #7  
Old April 20th 17, 09:00 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,151
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 20/04/2017 9:34 PM, Trevor wrote:

>
> Actually they are just an amplifier, active equaliser and compressor
> with various stored custom settings like the ones you mention.
> What really ****es me off is that it is so simple now to have Bluetooth
> control from your mobile phone over all parameters of a hearing aid.
> Sadly there are no aids available that do that simply because the
> Audiologists want to keep their huge profits from fitting and adjusting
> the aids. And some of the ones that do have control over volume and mode
> settings via Bluetooth only work with iPhones because they are too slack
> to write the apps for Android.
>


Or maybe they don't want every know-all Tom Dick and Harry further
damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?

geoff


  #8  
Old April 21st 17, 05:27 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Trevor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,624
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 21/04/2017 6:00 AM, geoff wrote:
> On 20/04/2017 9:34 PM, Trevor wrote:
>> Actually they are just an amplifier, active equaliser and compressor
>> with various stored custom settings like the ones you mention.
>> What really ****es me off is that it is so simple now to have Bluetooth
>> control from your mobile phone over all parameters of a hearing aid.
>> Sadly there are no aids available that do that simply because the
>> Audiologists want to keep their huge profits from fitting and adjusting
>> the aids. And some of the ones that do have control over volume and mode
>> settings via Bluetooth only work with iPhones because they are too slack
>> to write the apps for Android.
>>

>
> Or maybe they don't want every know-all Tom Dick and Harry further
> damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?


Yeah that's what the Audiologists want you to believe!!!
Not everyone is a complete numpty, although perhaps you are?
Sadly most people never get them adjusted to maximum performance because
after going back a few times to the audiologist they get sick of it and
give up. Even worse, many who get free aids through the government
pension scheme give up, throw them in the draw and never use them. I
know a few like that, a complete waste of taxpayer money to subsidise
audiologists pension funds. :-(



  #9  
Old April 21st 17, 01:17 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,151
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 21/04/2017 4:27 PM, Trevor wrote:
>nd Harry further
>> damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?

>
> Yeah that's what the Audiologists want you to believe!!!
> Not everyone is a complete numpty,


That's why everybody can be an expert concert mixing engineer too.


> although perhaps you are?


Clearly.

geoff
  #10  
Old April 21st 17, 02:15 PM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
~misfit~[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

Once upon a time on usenet Trevor wrote:
> On 21/04/2017 6:00 AM, geoff wrote:
>> On 20/04/2017 9:34 PM, Trevor wrote:
>>> Actually they are just an amplifier, active equaliser and compressor
>>> with various stored custom settings like the ones you mention.
>>> What really ****es me off is that it is so simple now to have
>>> Bluetooth control from your mobile phone over all parameters of a
>>> hearing aid. Sadly there are no aids available that do that simply
>>> because the Audiologists want to keep their huge profits from
>>> fitting and adjusting the aids. And some of the ones that do have
>>> control over volume and mode settings via Bluetooth only work with
>>> iPhones because they are too slack to write the apps for Android.
>>>

>>
>> Or maybe they don't want every know-all Tom Dick and Harry further
>> damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?

>
> Yeah that's what the Audiologists want you to believe!!!
> Not everyone is a complete numpty, although perhaps you are?
> Sadly most people never get them adjusted to maximum performance
> because after going back a few times to the audiologist they get sick
> of it and give up. Even worse, many who get free aids through the
> government pension scheme give up, throw them in the draw and never
> use them. I know a few like that, a complete waste of taxpayer money
> to subsidise audiologists pension funds. :-(


What's a "draw"?
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)


 




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