[Scott Dorsey]

Bill Dunkenfield wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Dunkenfield wrote:
Jack wrote:

Bill Dunkenfield wrote:
Preben Friis wrote:


The word "ground" is used synonymously with the word "common" where I am
from.

Must be a very confusing place.

Mixing the two in actual circuits can cause all kinds of trouble.

We got ground, local ground, chassis ground, earth, safety ground,
analogue signal ground, digital signal ground, module ground, unit
ground. Which one is ground?

It depends on whether the conductor is carrying power supply current,
signal current, noise current, no current or carrying current only in a
fault condition.

Right, but it depends on more than that. It also depends on which noise
current it's carrying, or where it's carrying it sometimes. So which is
"ground?"
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[David Grant]

Doesn't matter, you should be able to judge group delay and comb filtering
problems just as easily with one ear. My wife has one ear, and she is
remarkably good at that.

I'll be grateful for a wife that cares enough to know what group filtering
and comb filtering is, let alone one that can judge it.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Bill Dunkenfield]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Bill Dunkenfield wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Dunkenfield wrote:
Jack wrote:

Bill Dunkenfield wrote:
Preben Friis wrote:


The word "ground" is used synonymously with the word "common" where I am
from.

Must be a very confusing place.

Mixing the two in actual circuits can cause all kinds of trouble.

We got ground, local ground, chassis ground, earth, safety ground,
analogue signal ground, digital signal ground, module ground, unit
ground. Which one is ground?

It depends on whether the conductor is carrying power supply current,
signal current, noise current, no current or carrying current only in a
fault condition.

Right, but it depends on more than that. It also depends on which noise
current it's carrying, or where it's carrying it sometimes. So which is
"ground?"
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Any conductor carrying power supply current, signal current or noise
current cannot properly be called ground.

JAM

[Scott Dorsey]

David Grant wrote:

Doesn't matter, you should be able to judge group delay and comb filtering
problems just as easily with one ear. My wife has one ear, and she is
remarkably good at that.

I'll be grateful for a wife that cares enough to know what group filtering
and comb filtering is, let alone one that can judge it.

I remember being at an AES show with her, and listening to a very expensive
monitor speaker and having her point out "This sounds like the music is
coming through a cheese grater." And you know, she was right. It DID sound
like the music was coming through a cheese grater. I am very grateful for
Chakaal.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Bill Dunkenfield wrote:

Any conductor carrying power supply current, signal current or noise
current cannot properly be called ground.

Why not?

Take a single-wire telegraph circuit with ground return. There are two
rods stuck in the ground, miles apart, and returned signal current is
going from one to the other. But it's still ground.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[William Sommerwerck]

Any conductor carrying power supply current, signal current,
or noise current cannot properly be called ground.

Why not?

Take a single-wire telegraph circuit with ground return. There are two
rods stuck in the ground, miles apart, and returned signal current is
going from one to the other. But it's still ground.

True. But we tend to think of "ground" as a zero-potential reference point.

[Mr.T]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
We got ground, local ground, chassis ground, earth, safety ground,
analogue signal ground, digital signal ground, module ground, unit
ground. Which one is ground?

That's easy, a copper stake driven into the dirt. :-)

The rest are simply functional "grounds", "earths","commons"... whatever.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
This would be correct wiring for a real 12dB/octave crossover. Of course,
these speakers don't have that, so they're wired wrong.

Actually there is no right or wrong for the woofer/mid in this case.
Just pick whether you want a relative + or - 90deg phase shift.
The "mid" and tweeter should be the same however.

MrT.

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
Any conductor carrying power supply current, signal current,
or noise current cannot properly be called ground.

Why not?

Take a single-wire telegraph circuit with ground return. There are two
rods stuck in the ground, miles apart, and returned signal current is
going from one to the other. But it's still ground.

True. But we tend to think of "ground" as a zero-potential reference point.

Right, and this leads to all kinds of common stability and noise problems,
including the notorious pin 1 problem. Ground isn't just one thing even
when there's only one ground.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
We got ground, local ground, chassis ground, earth, safety ground,
analogue signal ground, digital signal ground, module ground, unit
ground. Which one is ground?

That's easy, a copper stake driven into the dirt. :-)

I got a copper stake at the studio power service and a copper stake on the
transmitter building service, and there is a 26VAC difference between the
two. Which one is ground?

The rest are simply functional "grounds", "earths","commons"... whatever.

But some of them (not all of them) eventually get referenced to that stake
in the back of the building.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
This would be correct wiring for a real 12dB/octave crossover. Of course,
these speakers don't have that, so they're wired wrong.

Actually there is no right or wrong for the woofer/mid in this case.
Just pick whether you want a relative + or - 90deg phase shift.
The "mid" and tweeter should be the same however.

There's no right, but both of them are wrong. You'll know it when you
listen to Soultrane and the horn is all smeary.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bill Dunkenfield]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
We got ground, local ground, chassis ground, earth, safety ground,
analogue signal ground, digital signal ground, module ground, unit
ground. Which one is ground?

That's easy, a copper stake driven into the dirt. :-)

I got a copper stake at the studio power service and a copper stake on the
transmitter building service, and there is a 26VAC difference between the
two. Which one is ground?

The rest are simply functional "grounds", "earths","commons"... whatever.

But some of them (not all of them) eventually get referenced to that stake
in the back of the building.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

How does all that electronic equipment work in outer space?

JAM

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
Bill Dunkenfield wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
We got ground, local ground, chassis ground, earth, safety ground,
analogue signal ground, digital signal ground, module ground, unit
ground. Which one is ground?

That's easy, a copper stake driven into the dirt. :-)

I got a copper stake at the studio power service and a copper stake on the
transmitter building service, and there is a 26VAC difference between the
two. Which one is ground?

The rest are simply functional "grounds", "earths","commons"... whatever.

But some of them (not all of them) eventually get referenced to that stake
in the back of the building.

How does all that electronic equipment work in outer space?

Oh, that gets EXTRA scary, because a lot of spacecraft are not completely
shielded externally and as it is, the outside surface or frame may not be
equipotential because of external ionization. A brief introduction to some
of the grounding schemes used can be seen in _Space Communications Systems_
by Filipowsky and Mueldorf. This is another case where people are trying
to pack as much stuff as possible into a small area, keep the weight down
(which means using the smallest gauge wires possible) and so of course
induced noise issues get nasty, ground buss resistances get high, etc.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In rec.audio.pro Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
We got ground, local ground, chassis ground, earth, safety ground,
analogue signal ground, digital signal ground, module ground, unit
ground. Which one is ground?

That's easy, a copper stake driven into the dirt. :-)

I got a copper stake at the studio power service and a copper stake on the
transmitter building service, and there is a 26VAC difference between the
two. Which one is ground?

Both.

--
Aaron

[Mr.T]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
There's no right, but both of them are wrong. You'll know it when you
listen to Soultrane and the horn is all smeary.

Well of course doing it that way can be considered wrong, but then so could
anything less than perfect.
Which is pretty much everything.

MrT.

[Scott Dorsey]

Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
There's no right, but both of them are wrong. You'll know it when you
listen to Soultrane and the horn is all smeary.

Well of course doing it that way can be considered wrong, but then so could
anything less than perfect.
Which is pretty much everything.

Absolutely. All speakers are wrong in some way. But some speakers are a
whole lot more wrong than others. The speakers the original poster
describes are very, very wrong.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mr.T]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Absolutely. All speakers are wrong in some way. But some speakers are a
whole lot more wrong than others. The speakers the original poster
describes are very, very wrong.

Just like every other speaker at a similar manufacturing cost.
i.e. "pennies".

MrT.

[Scott Dorsey]

Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
Absolutely. All speakers are wrong in some way. But some speakers are a
whole lot more wrong than others. The speakers the original poster
describes are very, very wrong.

Just like every other speaker at a similar manufacturing cost.
i.e. "pennies".

Absolutely. That being the case, what is the story with the ads for crappy
home theatre speakers in Live Sound magazine? They always have several full
page ads. Is this so the speaker vendor can point the ads out to their
potential customers as showing their products are professional? The speakers
listed look suspiciously to be of white-van grade.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."