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#1
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home
theater? Is it recommended? Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. Should I assume that the power rating list is max power and that the actual rms is about 1/2 of that amount? Also, if DJ amplifiers are a feasible approach, what is the best way to connect them to RCA outputs? Do adapters exist for this? Thanks, bguidry |
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#2
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"bsguidry" wrote in message om... Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? Is it recommended? Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. Should I assume that the power rating list is max power and that the actual rms is about 1/2 of that amount? Also, if DJ amplifiers are a feasible approach, what is the best way to connect them to RCA outputs? Do adapters exist for this? In my experience, they lack clarity compared to good home audio equipment. Sound reinforcement equipment is intended to sound loud. The circuits are simple. Here it's important to distinguish with studio amps. There are many studio amplifiers of exceptional quality. Since both typically have balanced inputs, and many have fans, it can be hard to tell the difference. Hafler and Crown make very high quality amps. And Crown amps are used in expensive sound reinforcement apps. |
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#3
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"bsguidry" wrote in message om... Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? Is it recommended? Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. Should I assume that the power rating list is max power and that the actual rms is about 1/2 of that amount? Also, if DJ amplifiers are a feasible approach, what is the best way to connect them to RCA outputs? Do adapters exist for this? In my experience, they lack clarity compared to good home audio equipment. Sound reinforcement equipment is intended to sound loud. The circuits are simple. Here it's important to distinguish with studio amps. There are many studio amplifiers of exceptional quality. Since both typically have balanced inputs, and many have fans, it can be hard to tell the difference. Hafler and Crown make very high quality amps. And Crown amps are used in expensive sound reinforcement apps. |
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#4
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"bsguidry" wrote in message om... Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? Is it recommended? Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. Should I assume that the power rating list is max power and that the actual rms is about 1/2 of that amount? Also, if DJ amplifiers are a feasible approach, what is the best way to connect them to RCA outputs? Do adapters exist for this? In my experience, they lack clarity compared to good home audio equipment. Sound reinforcement equipment is intended to sound loud. The circuits are simple. Here it's important to distinguish with studio amps. There are many studio amplifiers of exceptional quality. Since both typically have balanced inputs, and many have fans, it can be hard to tell the difference. Hafler and Crown make very high quality amps. And Crown amps are used in expensive sound reinforcement apps. |
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#5
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"bsguidry" wrote in message
om Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? Definitely. Is it recommended? It's recommended if you do it right, and are willing to make suitable adaptations. One thing to watch out for is the fact that many of these amps have fans. Amps with fans generally aren't such a good idea if you keep them near your listening location. They're not much of a problem if you keep your amps in a closet or outside the listening room. Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. You still get what you pay for, but you're buying out of a more pragmatic marketplace. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. You must be looking at junk, or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Should I assume that the power rating list is max power and that the actual rms is about 1/2 of that amount? Better yet, surf the web for the actual professional spec sheets. Forget what you see in flyers and on tags in dealers. Also, if DJ amplifiers are a feasible approach, what is the best way to connect them to RCA outputs? If you want to do it right, you make some custom cables or have them made. If you want expeditious, but useful results, you just pick up some mono-1/4" to RCA adaptors at Radio Shack. Do adapters exist for this? For sure. The Radio Shack adaptors are 2 for under $4, last time I looked. |
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#6
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
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#7
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"Mark" wrote in message
th.net In article , says... "bsguidry" wrote in message om Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. You must be looking at junk, or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. I suspect the OP is thinking in terms of DJ brands like Gemini, American DJ, etc. Not the Pro-grade brands you're mentioning. Could be. |
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#8
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"Mark" wrote in message
th.net In article , says... "bsguidry" wrote in message om Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. You must be looking at junk, or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. I suspect the OP is thinking in terms of DJ brands like Gemini, American DJ, etc. Not the Pro-grade brands you're mentioning. Could be. |
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#9
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"Mark" wrote in message
th.net In article , says... "bsguidry" wrote in message om Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. You must be looking at junk, or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. I suspect the OP is thinking in terms of DJ brands like Gemini, American DJ, etc. Not the Pro-grade brands you're mentioning. Could be. |
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#11
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
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#12
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "bsguidry" wrote in message om Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? Definitely. Is it recommended? It's recommended if you do it right, and are willing to make suitable adaptations. One thing to watch out for is the fact that many of these amps have fans. Amps with fans generally aren't such a good idea if you keep them near your listening location. They're not much of a problem if you keep your amps in a closet or outside the listening room. Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. You still get what you pay for, but you're buying out of a more pragmatic marketplace. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. You must be looking at junk, or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. |
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#13
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"Robert Morein" wrote in message ...
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "bsguidry" wrote in message om Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? Definitely. Is it recommended? It's recommended if you do it right, and are willing to make suitable adaptations. One thing to watch out for is the fact that many of these amps have fans. Amps with fans generally aren't such a good idea if you keep them near your listening location. They're not much of a problem if you keep your amps in a closet or outside the listening room. Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. You still get what you pay for, but you're buying out of a more pragmatic marketplace. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. You must be looking at junk, or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. Other brands that caught my attention were Nady, Samson, Peavey, and Behringer. The fan noise could be a problem as suggested. Since the concensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I guess I'll keep scanning Ebay for good finds on these. Thanks for all the feedback to this post and two my previous posts about my Adire Tempest project. bguidry |
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#14
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"bsguidry" wrote in message
om "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "bsguidry" wrote in message om Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? Definitely. Is it recommended? It's recommended if you do it right, and are willing to make suitable adaptations. One thing to watch out for is the fact that many of these amps have fans. Amps with fans generally aren't such a good idea if you keep them near your listening location. They're not much of a problem if you keep your amps in a closet or outside the listening room. Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. You still get what you pay for, but you're buying out of a more pragmatic marketplace. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. You must be looking at junk, or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Otherwise, I concur. Ask Morein about his power amp DBTs. Then take a few of mine by downloading files from http://www.pcabx.com/product/amplifiers/index.htm . BTW you can hear audible differences between amps with some of these files, but the test circumstances will be instructive. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. One sees Haflers in a lot of control and mastering rooms, since we're talking pro audio. Other brands that caught my attention were Nady, Samson, Peavey, and Behringer. Other than Peavey, you're talking bottom-feeder specials. Nevertheless there are some new Behringers (said to be essentially QSC clones, who'd a figured?) that have more than a few people excited. The fan noise could be a problem as suggested. Since the consensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. Your typical Crown, QSC, or Hafler would probably bury a Carver when it comes to difficult loads. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. Consider the fact that your typical Crown, QSC or Hafler has 4-ohm bridged ratings. That correspond to a 2 ohm load. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I'd trade a really sensitive, accurate clipping light for fancy meters in a heart beat. |
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#15
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"Arny Krueger" wrote Since the consensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. Your typical Crown, QSC, or Hafler would probably bury a Carver when it comes to difficult loads. "would probably"... how would you know, mr. no-empirical-experiences? Krell, Levinson and others could be said to “bury” your biased picks, too. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. Consider the fact that your typical Crown, QSC or Hafler has 4-ohm bridged ratings. That correspond to a 2 ohm load. Why is that relevant (bridging) to the poster’s application/needs? RMS load rating is not the major determinant in high fidelity reproduction. It is only one factor of many to consider. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I'd trade a really sensitive, accurate clipping light for fancy meters in a heart beat. Quack, quack, quack... |
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#16
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"Arny Krueger" wrote Since the consensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. Your typical Crown, QSC, or Hafler would probably bury a Carver when it comes to difficult loads. "would probably"... how would you know, mr. no-empirical-experiences? Krell, Levinson and others could be said to “bury” your biased picks, too. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. Consider the fact that your typical Crown, QSC or Hafler has 4-ohm bridged ratings. That correspond to a 2 ohm load. Why is that relevant (bridging) to the poster’s application/needs? RMS load rating is not the major determinant in high fidelity reproduction. It is only one factor of many to consider. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I'd trade a really sensitive, accurate clipping light for fancy meters in a heart beat. Quack, quack, quack... |
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#17
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"Arny Krueger" wrote Since the consensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. Your typical Crown, QSC, or Hafler would probably bury a Carver when it comes to difficult loads. "would probably"... how would you know, mr. no-empirical-experiences? Krell, Levinson and others could be said to “bury” your biased picks, too. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. Consider the fact that your typical Crown, QSC or Hafler has 4-ohm bridged ratings. That correspond to a 2 ohm load. Why is that relevant (bridging) to the poster’s application/needs? RMS load rating is not the major determinant in high fidelity reproduction. It is only one factor of many to consider. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I'd trade a really sensitive, accurate clipping light for fancy meters in a heart beat. Quack, quack, quack... |
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#18
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
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#19
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
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#21
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"bsguidry" wrote in message
om "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "bsguidry" wrote in message om Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? Definitely. Is it recommended? It's recommended if you do it right, and are willing to make suitable adaptations. One thing to watch out for is the fact that many of these amps have fans. Amps with fans generally aren't such a good idea if you keep them near your listening location. They're not much of a problem if you keep your amps in a closet or outside the listening room. Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. You still get what you pay for, but you're buying out of a more pragmatic marketplace. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. You must be looking at junk, or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Otherwise, I concur. Ask Morein about his power amp DBTs. Then take a few of mine by downloading files from http://www.pcabx.com/product/amplifiers/index.htm . BTW you can hear audible differences between amps with some of these files, but the test circumstances will be instructive. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. One sees Haflers in a lot of control and mastering rooms, since we're talking pro audio. Other brands that caught my attention were Nady, Samson, Peavey, and Behringer. Other than Peavey, you're talking bottom-feeder specials. Nevertheless there are some new Behringers (said to be essentially QSC clones, who'd a figured?) that have more than a few people excited. The fan noise could be a problem as suggested. Since the consensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. Your typical Crown, QSC, or Hafler would probably bury a Carver when it comes to difficult loads. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. Consider the fact that your typical Crown, QSC or Hafler has 4-ohm bridged ratings. That correspond to a 2 ohm load. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I'd trade a really sensitive, accurate clipping light for fancy meters in a heart beat. |
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#22
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Hafler
"bsguidry" wrote in message om... [snip] , or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. David Hafler invented the Ultralinear tube circuit, which firmly enshrines him in the audio pantheon of greats. He became chief engineer of Dynaco, and went on to start Hafler. His second product was the DH-200, the world's first MOSFET audio amplifier. At the time, this amp was regarded as a price/performance breakthrough. Unassuming in appearance, it has massive heatsinks with very plain metalwork. It was followed by some extremely good preamps, and more MOSFET amps, some of which had a new circuit, the Excelinear. MOSFET amps are the most durable of all solid state amplifiers. They can drive any load without output damage, and if you're reasonably lucky, they will survive a dead short. The MOSFET transistor is now ubiquitous in power switching applications because of it's ruggedness. The sound of the traditional MOSFET circuit has both followers and detractors, to which I add my personal observation that they complement metal dome tweeters very well, but are not as good with fabric types. Another MOSFET circuit developed by Jim Strickland, founder of Acoustat, provides a different kind of sound that compliments fabric tweeters. I use both types of amplifiers in my systems, depending upon the speakers they match. At the time of it's introduction, the Acoustat TNT-200 was featured on the cover of Audio Magazine, and it was regarded by many, at that time, as raising the bar for clarity and detail in reproduction. When Rockford bought Hafler and Acoustat, they chose -- unfortunately, in my opinion, to preserve only one amplifier technology. Strickland's original design was hardened -- the original design had vulnerabilities that had nothing to do with output load -- and launched the 9000 series, and the P series professional amps. These are astonishingly small, extremely high quality amplifiers that are far tougher than the typical professional unit. Because they use MOSFETs, they have no relays or fuses, and in my opinion, have MUCH higher fidelity than the QSC units. Both types of Haflers are common in studios, the XL-600 being one of t he most prized units. I have a P3000. Every once in a while, I find something really remarkable, or at least remarkable for the price. I also use the Parasound HCA-2200ii bipolar amp. I have found the Yamaha bipolar M series to have merit, though the build quality is not in the class of an American amplifier. Nelson Pass's Threshold amplifiers can be found in some Nakamichi receivers, and are quite a pleasant surprise. B&K amplifiers use the traditional MOSFET circuit, with exceptional build quality. I do not particularly enjoy ADCOM MOSFET amps, though the build quality is very high. I found the sound of Rotel, touted by various audio magazines, to be disappointingly shrill. The QSC is muddy. It's performance is a throwback to the bipolar amplifiers of the late 70's and early 80's. |
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#23
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Hafler
"Robert Morein" wrote in message
The QSC is muddy. It's performance is a throwback to the bipolar amplifiers of the late 70's and early 80's. Thus says a guy who would apparently die ignorant and inexperienced rather than do a level-matched, time-synched bias-controlled listening test. |
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#24
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Hafler
"Robert Morein" wrote in message
The QSC is muddy. It's performance is a throwback to the bipolar amplifiers of the late 70's and early 80's. Thus says a guy who would apparently die ignorant and inexperienced rather than do a level-matched, time-synched bias-controlled listening test. |
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#25
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Hafler
"Robert Morein" wrote in message
The QSC is muddy. It's performance is a throwback to the bipolar amplifiers of the late 70's and early 80's. Thus says a guy who would apparently die ignorant and inexperienced rather than do a level-matched, time-synched bias-controlled listening test. |
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#26
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Hafler
"Robert Morein" wrote in message
... MOSFET amps are the most durable of all solid state amplifiers. They can drive any load without output damage, and if you're reasonably lucky, they will survive a dead short. The MOSFET transistor is now ubiquitous in power switching applications because of it's ruggedness. Really? That's an exceptional claim. Why do you claim MOSFETs amps are any more durable than a bipolar output stage amp? Bipoloar transistors do exihibit secondary breakdown and current hogging/thermal runaway. However, in a competent design both issues can be firmly addressed. Reliability and durability should be no worse than a MOSFET amp. The reason MOSFET output stages are ubiquitous these days is cost and availability. |
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#27
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Hafler
"Robert Morein" wrote in message
... MOSFET amps are the most durable of all solid state amplifiers. They can drive any load without output damage, and if you're reasonably lucky, they will survive a dead short. The MOSFET transistor is now ubiquitous in power switching applications because of it's ruggedness. Really? That's an exceptional claim. Why do you claim MOSFETs amps are any more durable than a bipolar output stage amp? Bipoloar transistors do exihibit secondary breakdown and current hogging/thermal runaway. However, in a competent design both issues can be firmly addressed. Reliability and durability should be no worse than a MOSFET amp. The reason MOSFET output stages are ubiquitous these days is cost and availability. |
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#28
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Hafler
"Robert Morein" wrote in message
... MOSFET amps are the most durable of all solid state amplifiers. They can drive any load without output damage, and if you're reasonably lucky, they will survive a dead short. The MOSFET transistor is now ubiquitous in power switching applications because of it's ruggedness. Really? That's an exceptional claim. Why do you claim MOSFETs amps are any more durable than a bipolar output stage amp? Bipoloar transistors do exihibit secondary breakdown and current hogging/thermal runaway. However, in a competent design both issues can be firmly addressed. Reliability and durability should be no worse than a MOSFET amp. The reason MOSFET output stages are ubiquitous these days is cost and availability. |
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#29
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Hafler
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:10:51 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote: The sound of the traditional MOSFET circuit has both followers and detractors, to which I add my personal observation that they complement metal dome tweeters very well, but are not as good with fabric types. Absolute bolllocks! As with bipolars and even a select few tube amps, a good amp sounds like a good amp, i.e. it sounds like its input signal. They all sound the same, hence they don't 'complement' any particular kind of tweeter. Further, there's even more ******** in your sweeping generalisation that metal dome and soft dome tweeters have a characteristic sound. They don't. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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#30
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Hafler
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:10:51 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote: The sound of the traditional MOSFET circuit has both followers and detractors, to which I add my personal observation that they complement metal dome tweeters very well, but are not as good with fabric types. Absolute bolllocks! As with bipolars and even a select few tube amps, a good amp sounds like a good amp, i.e. it sounds like its input signal. They all sound the same, hence they don't 'complement' any particular kind of tweeter. Further, there's even more ******** in your sweeping generalisation that metal dome and soft dome tweeters have a characteristic sound. They don't. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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#31
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Hafler
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:10:51 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote: The sound of the traditional MOSFET circuit has both followers and detractors, to which I add my personal observation that they complement metal dome tweeters very well, but are not as good with fabric types. Absolute bolllocks! As with bipolars and even a select few tube amps, a good amp sounds like a good amp, i.e. it sounds like its input signal. They all sound the same, hence they don't 'complement' any particular kind of tweeter. Further, there's even more ******** in your sweeping generalisation that metal dome and soft dome tweeters have a characteristic sound. They don't. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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#32
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Hafler (the first MOSFET? I don't think so)
Hitachi marketed a line of MOSFET amps prior to Hafler, I think. My
mind is really rusty (the 60's you know), but I think they were the 7500 and 8500 or so. On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:10:51 -0500, "Robert Morein" wrote: "bsguidry" wrote in message . com... [snip] , or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. David Hafler invented the Ultralinear tube circuit, which firmly enshrines him in the audio pantheon of greats. He became chief engineer of Dynaco, and went on to start Hafler. His second product was the DH-200, the world's first MOSFET audio amplifier. At the time, this amp was regarded as a price/performance breakthrough. Unassuming in appearance, it has massive heatsinks with very plain metalwork. It was followed by some extremely good preamps, and more MOSFET amps, some of which had a new circuit, the Excelinear. MOSFET amps are the most durable of all solid state amplifiers. They can drive any load without output damage, and if you're reasonably lucky, they will survive a dead short. The MOSFET transistor is now ubiquitous in power switching applications because of it's ruggedness. The sound of the traditional MOSFET circuit has both followers and detractors, to which I add my personal observation that they complement metal dome tweeters very well, but are not as good with fabric types. Another MOSFET circuit developed by Jim Strickland, founder of Acoustat, provides a different kind of sound that compliments fabric tweeters. I use both types of amplifiers in my systems, depending upon the speakers they match. At the time of it's introduction, the Acoustat TNT-200 was featured on the cover of Audio Magazine, and it was regarded by many, at that time, as raising the bar for clarity and detail in reproduction. When Rockford bought Hafler and Acoustat, they chose -- unfortunately, in my opinion, to preserve only one amplifier technology. Strickland's original design was hardened -- the original design had vulnerabilities that had nothing to do with output load -- and launched the 9000 series, and the P series professional amps. These are astonishingly small, extremely high quality amplifiers that are far tougher than the typical professional unit. Because they use MOSFETs, they have no relays or fuses, and in my opinion, have MUCH higher fidelity than the QSC units. Both types of Haflers are common in studios, the XL-600 being one of t he most prized units. I have a P3000. Every once in a while, I find something really remarkable, or at least remarkable for the price. I also use the Parasound HCA-2200ii bipolar amp. I have found the Yamaha bipolar M series to have merit, though the build quality is not in the class of an American amplifier. Nelson Pass's Threshold amplifiers can be found in some Nakamichi receivers, and are quite a pleasant surprise. B&K amplifiers use the traditional MOSFET circuit, with exceptional build quality. I do not particularly enjoy ADCOM MOSFET amps, though the build quality is very high. I found the sound of Rotel, touted by various audio magazines, to be disappointingly shrill. The QSC is muddy. It's performance is a throwback to the bipolar amplifiers of the late 70's and early 80's. |
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#33
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Hafler (the first MOSFET? I don't think so)
Hitachi marketed a line of MOSFET amps prior to Hafler, I think. My
mind is really rusty (the 60's you know), but I think they were the 7500 and 8500 or so. On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:10:51 -0500, "Robert Morein" wrote: "bsguidry" wrote in message . com... [snip] , or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. David Hafler invented the Ultralinear tube circuit, which firmly enshrines him in the audio pantheon of greats. He became chief engineer of Dynaco, and went on to start Hafler. His second product was the DH-200, the world's first MOSFET audio amplifier. At the time, this amp was regarded as a price/performance breakthrough. Unassuming in appearance, it has massive heatsinks with very plain metalwork. It was followed by some extremely good preamps, and more MOSFET amps, some of which had a new circuit, the Excelinear. MOSFET amps are the most durable of all solid state amplifiers. They can drive any load without output damage, and if you're reasonably lucky, they will survive a dead short. The MOSFET transistor is now ubiquitous in power switching applications because of it's ruggedness. The sound of the traditional MOSFET circuit has both followers and detractors, to which I add my personal observation that they complement metal dome tweeters very well, but are not as good with fabric types. Another MOSFET circuit developed by Jim Strickland, founder of Acoustat, provides a different kind of sound that compliments fabric tweeters. I use both types of amplifiers in my systems, depending upon the speakers they match. At the time of it's introduction, the Acoustat TNT-200 was featured on the cover of Audio Magazine, and it was regarded by many, at that time, as raising the bar for clarity and detail in reproduction. When Rockford bought Hafler and Acoustat, they chose -- unfortunately, in my opinion, to preserve only one amplifier technology. Strickland's original design was hardened -- the original design had vulnerabilities that had nothing to do with output load -- and launched the 9000 series, and the P series professional amps. These are astonishingly small, extremely high quality amplifiers that are far tougher than the typical professional unit. Because they use MOSFETs, they have no relays or fuses, and in my opinion, have MUCH higher fidelity than the QSC units. Both types of Haflers are common in studios, the XL-600 being one of t he most prized units. I have a P3000. Every once in a while, I find something really remarkable, or at least remarkable for the price. I also use the Parasound HCA-2200ii bipolar amp. I have found the Yamaha bipolar M series to have merit, though the build quality is not in the class of an American amplifier. Nelson Pass's Threshold amplifiers can be found in some Nakamichi receivers, and are quite a pleasant surprise. B&K amplifiers use the traditional MOSFET circuit, with exceptional build quality. I do not particularly enjoy ADCOM MOSFET amps, though the build quality is very high. I found the sound of Rotel, touted by various audio magazines, to be disappointingly shrill. The QSC is muddy. It's performance is a throwback to the bipolar amplifiers of the late 70's and early 80's. |
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Hafler (the first MOSFET? I don't think so)
Hitachi marketed a line of MOSFET amps prior to Hafler, I think. My
mind is really rusty (the 60's you know), but I think they were the 7500 and 8500 or so. On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:10:51 -0500, "Robert Morein" wrote: "bsguidry" wrote in message . com... [snip] , or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. David Hafler invented the Ultralinear tube circuit, which firmly enshrines him in the audio pantheon of greats. He became chief engineer of Dynaco, and went on to start Hafler. His second product was the DH-200, the world's first MOSFET audio amplifier. At the time, this amp was regarded as a price/performance breakthrough. Unassuming in appearance, it has massive heatsinks with very plain metalwork. It was followed by some extremely good preamps, and more MOSFET amps, some of which had a new circuit, the Excelinear. MOSFET amps are the most durable of all solid state amplifiers. They can drive any load without output damage, and if you're reasonably lucky, they will survive a dead short. The MOSFET transistor is now ubiquitous in power switching applications because of it's ruggedness. The sound of the traditional MOSFET circuit has both followers and detractors, to which I add my personal observation that they complement metal dome tweeters very well, but are not as good with fabric types. Another MOSFET circuit developed by Jim Strickland, founder of Acoustat, provides a different kind of sound that compliments fabric tweeters. I use both types of amplifiers in my systems, depending upon the speakers they match. At the time of it's introduction, the Acoustat TNT-200 was featured on the cover of Audio Magazine, and it was regarded by many, at that time, as raising the bar for clarity and detail in reproduction. When Rockford bought Hafler and Acoustat, they chose -- unfortunately, in my opinion, to preserve only one amplifier technology. Strickland's original design was hardened -- the original design had vulnerabilities that had nothing to do with output load -- and launched the 9000 series, and the P series professional amps. These are astonishingly small, extremely high quality amplifiers that are far tougher than the typical professional unit. Because they use MOSFETs, they have no relays or fuses, and in my opinion, have MUCH higher fidelity than the QSC units. Both types of Haflers are common in studios, the XL-600 being one of t he most prized units. I have a P3000. Every once in a while, I find something really remarkable, or at least remarkable for the price. I also use the Parasound HCA-2200ii bipolar amp. I have found the Yamaha bipolar M series to have merit, though the build quality is not in the class of an American amplifier. Nelson Pass's Threshold amplifiers can be found in some Nakamichi receivers, and are quite a pleasant surprise. B&K amplifiers use the traditional MOSFET circuit, with exceptional build quality. I do not particularly enjoy ADCOM MOSFET amps, though the build quality is very high. I found the sound of Rotel, touted by various audio magazines, to be disappointingly shrill. The QSC is muddy. It's performance is a throwback to the bipolar amplifiers of the late 70's and early 80's. |
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Hafler
"bsguidry" wrote in message om... [snip] , or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. David Hafler invented the Ultralinear tube circuit, which firmly enshrines him in the audio pantheon of greats. He became chief engineer of Dynaco, and went on to start Hafler. His second product was the DH-200, the world's first MOSFET audio amplifier. At the time, this amp was regarded as a price/performance breakthrough. Unassuming in appearance, it has massive heatsinks with very plain metalwork. It was followed by some extremely good preamps, and more MOSFET amps, some of which had a new circuit, the Excelinear. MOSFET amps are the most durable of all solid state amplifiers. They can drive any load without output damage, and if you're reasonably lucky, they will survive a dead short. The MOSFET transistor is now ubiquitous in power switching applications because of it's ruggedness. The sound of the traditional MOSFET circuit has both followers and detractors, to which I add my personal observation that they complement metal dome tweeters very well, but are not as good with fabric types. Another MOSFET circuit developed by Jim Strickland, founder of Acoustat, provides a different kind of sound that compliments fabric tweeters. I use both types of amplifiers in my systems, depending upon the speakers they match. At the time of it's introduction, the Acoustat TNT-200 was featured on the cover of Audio Magazine, and it was regarded by many, at that time, as raising the bar for clarity and detail in reproduction. When Rockford bought Hafler and Acoustat, they chose -- unfortunately, in my opinion, to preserve only one amplifier technology. Strickland's original design was hardened -- the original design had vulnerabilities that had nothing to do with output load -- and launched the 9000 series, and the P series professional amps. These are astonishingly small, extremely high quality amplifiers that are far tougher than the typical professional unit. Because they use MOSFETs, they have no relays or fuses, and in my opinion, have MUCH higher fidelity than the QSC units. Both types of Haflers are common in studios, the XL-600 being one of t he most prized units. I have a P3000. Every once in a while, I find something really remarkable, or at least remarkable for the price. I also use the Parasound HCA-2200ii bipolar amp. I have found the Yamaha bipolar M series to have merit, though the build quality is not in the class of an American amplifier. Nelson Pass's Threshold amplifiers can be found in some Nakamichi receivers, and are quite a pleasant surprise. B&K amplifiers use the traditional MOSFET circuit, with exceptional build quality. I do not particularly enjoy ADCOM MOSFET amps, though the build quality is very high. I found the sound of Rotel, touted by various audio magazines, to be disappointingly shrill. The QSC is muddy. It's performance is a throwback to the bipolar amplifiers of the late 70's and early 80's. |
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#36
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
"bsguidry" wrote in message
om "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "bsguidry" wrote in message om Does anyone here have experience using DJ amplifiers in their home theater? Definitely. Is it recommended? It's recommended if you do it right, and are willing to make suitable adaptations. One thing to watch out for is the fact that many of these amps have fans. Amps with fans generally aren't such a good idea if you keep them near your listening location. They're not much of a problem if you keep your amps in a closet or outside the listening room. Many DJ amplifiers seem to offer good bang for the buck. You still get what you pay for, but you're buying out of a more pragmatic marketplace. One thing I notice is that few provide rms power ratings. You must be looking at junk, or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Otherwise, I concur. Ask Morein about his power amp DBTs. Then take a few of mine by downloading files from http://www.pcabx.com/product/amplifiers/index.htm . BTW you can hear audible differences between amps with some of these files, but the test circumstances will be instructive. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. One sees Haflers in a lot of control and mastering rooms, since we're talking pro audio. Other brands that caught my attention were Nady, Samson, Peavey, and Behringer. Other than Peavey, you're talking bottom-feeder specials. Nevertheless there are some new Behringers (said to be essentially QSC clones, who'd a figured?) that have more than a few people excited. The fan noise could be a problem as suggested. Since the consensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. Your typical Crown, QSC, or Hafler would probably bury a Carver when it comes to difficult loads. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. Consider the fact that your typical Crown, QSC or Hafler has 4-ohm bridged ratings. That correspond to a 2 ohm load. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I'd trade a really sensitive, accurate clipping light for fancy meters in a heart beat. |
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#37
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Hafler
"bsguidry" wrote in message om... [snip] , or not finding the right ratings lists. Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. David Hafler invented the Ultralinear tube circuit, which firmly enshrines him in the audio pantheon of greats. He became chief engineer of Dynaco, and went on to start Hafler. His second product was the DH-200, the world's first MOSFET audio amplifier. At the time, this amp was regarded as a price/performance breakthrough. Unassuming in appearance, it has massive heatsinks with very plain metalwork. It was followed by some extremely good preamps, and more MOSFET amps, some of which had a new circuit, the Excelinear. MOSFET amps are the most durable of all solid state amplifiers. They can drive any load without output damage, and if you're reasonably lucky, they will survive a dead short. The MOSFET transistor is now ubiquitous in power switching applications because of it's ruggedness. The sound of the traditional MOSFET circuit has both followers and detractors, to which I add my personal observation that they complement metal dome tweeters very well, but are not as good with fabric types. Another MOSFET circuit developed by Jim Strickland, founder of Acoustat, provides a different kind of sound that compliments fabric tweeters. I use both types of amplifiers in my systems, depending upon the speakers they match. At the time of it's introduction, the Acoustat TNT-200 was featured on the cover of Audio Magazine, and it was regarded by many, at that time, as raising the bar for clarity and detail in reproduction. When Rockford bought Hafler and Acoustat, they chose -- unfortunately, in my opinion, to preserve only one amplifier technology. Strickland's original design was hardened -- the original design had vulnerabilities that had nothing to do with output load -- and launched the 9000 series, and the P series professional amps. These are astonishingly small, extremely high quality amplifiers that are far tougher than the typical professional unit. Because they use MOSFETs, they have no relays or fuses, and in my opinion, have MUCH higher fidelity than the QSC units. Both types of Haflers are common in studios, the XL-600 being one of t he most prized units. I have a P3000. Every once in a while, I find something really remarkable, or at least remarkable for the price. I also use the Parasound HCA-2200ii bipolar amp. I have found the Yamaha bipolar M series to have merit, though the build quality is not in the class of an American amplifier. Nelson Pass's Threshold amplifiers can be found in some Nakamichi receivers, and are quite a pleasant surprise. B&K amplifiers use the traditional MOSFET circuit, with exceptional build quality. I do not particularly enjoy ADCOM MOSFET amps, though the build quality is very high. I found the sound of Rotel, touted by various audio magazines, to be disappointingly shrill. The QSC is muddy. It's performance is a throwback to the bipolar amplifiers of the late 70's and early 80's. |
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
bsguidry wrote:
[arny said] Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. [morein said] Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. I haven't heard any "recent un's" of the amps mentioned, but based on the context I have seen them mentioned in I would go for QSC for the bass and Hafler for "the above rest", and skip Crown as being not cost efficient in the context. Other brands that caught my attention were Nady, Samson, Peavey, and Behringer. Behringer tends to be getting ever more an interesting dark horse specwise and from what people who suggest them. The fan noise could be a problem as suggested. Since the concensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. There must be real bargains out there amongst the "crap bipolars from the 70-ties and 80-ties", but perhaps not in the power class you want, mostly it is the below 150 watts from that time and age you find the good ones in. I recently bought a "stone age" Technics SE9021, and it was a very positive surprise. Obvious caveats exist with so old stuff, especially if it has not been recently or reasonably constantly used. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I guess I'll keep scanning Ebay for good finds on these. Thanks for all the feedback to this post and two my previous posts about my Adire Tempest project. bguidry -- ************************************************** ************* * \\\\\\\ Quality Ascii handcrafted by Peter Larsen /////// * * \\\\\\\ My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk /////// * ************************************************** ******* |
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
bsguidry wrote:
[arny said] Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. [morein said] Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. I haven't heard any "recent un's" of the amps mentioned, but based on the context I have seen them mentioned in I would go for QSC for the bass and Hafler for "the above rest", and skip Crown as being not cost efficient in the context. Other brands that caught my attention were Nady, Samson, Peavey, and Behringer. Behringer tends to be getting ever more an interesting dark horse specwise and from what people who suggest them. The fan noise could be a problem as suggested. Since the concensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. There must be real bargains out there amongst the "crap bipolars from the 70-ties and 80-ties", but perhaps not in the power class you want, mostly it is the below 150 watts from that time and age you find the good ones in. I recently bought a "stone age" Technics SE9021, and it was a very positive surprise. Obvious caveats exist with so old stuff, especially if it has not been recently or reasonably constantly used. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I guess I'll keep scanning Ebay for good finds on these. Thanks for all the feedback to this post and two my previous posts about my Adire Tempest project. bguidry -- ************************************************** ************* * \\\\\\\ Quality Ascii handcrafted by Peter Larsen /////// * * \\\\\\\ My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk /////// * ************************************************** ******* |
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Using DJ Amplifiers in Home Theater
bsguidry wrote:
[arny said] Good brands to look at include QSC, Hafler, and Crown. If you surf the vendor web sites, you'll find very detailed RMS power specs. [morein said] Take QSC off the list. It's a testament to Arny's hearing difficulties. Othewise, I concur. I've definitely consider QSC and Crown, however, I've not encountered Hafler very often in my searching. I haven't heard any "recent un's" of the amps mentioned, but based on the context I have seen them mentioned in I would go for QSC for the bass and Hafler for "the above rest", and skip Crown as being not cost efficient in the context. Other brands that caught my attention were Nady, Samson, Peavey, and Behringer. Behringer tends to be getting ever more an interesting dark horse specwise and from what people who suggest them. The fan noise could be a problem as suggested. Since the concensus here seems to indicate going with the more pricey Crown or Hafler amplifiers, I think I will revert my focus back to obtaining a higher powerered Carver amplifier. There must be real bargains out there amongst the "crap bipolars from the 70-ties and 80-ties", but perhaps not in the power class you want, mostly it is the below 150 watts from that time and age you find the good ones in. I recently bought a "stone age" Technics SE9021, and it was a very positive surprise. Obvious caveats exist with so old stuff, especially if it has not been recently or reasonably constantly used. I'm currently using one rated at 175watts rms X 2 at 4 ohms. I love the look of the Carvers with the two analog power meters on the front. I guess I'll keep scanning Ebay for good finds on these. Thanks for all the feedback to this post and two my previous posts about my Adire Tempest project. bguidry -- ************************************************** ************* * \\\\\\\ Quality Ascii handcrafted by Peter Larsen /////// * * \\\\\\\ My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk /////// * ************************************************** ******* |
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