[Andre Jute[_2_]]

"You fail to understand the true nature of the conflict [between the
global warmies and the skeptics]. You claim that they are wrong, and
you'd like them to admit it and get busy with correction of flawed or
fudged data. They claim that you are a heretic, and
want you burned. Galileo, anyone?" -- Lord Valve

"Show the heretic the instruments [of torture]" -- Stage in the
process that leads to recantation or burning in the Inquisition

"Scientific dissent from Lysenko's theories of environmentally
acquired inheritance was formally outlawed in 1948, and for the next
several years opponents were purged from held positions, and many
imprisoned." -- Soviet scientific practice the global warmies desire
to emulate

Collated by Andre Jute

[landotter]

On Nov 24, 4:22*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

"Scientific dissent from Lysenko's theories of environmentally
acquired inheritance was formally outlawed in 1948, and for the next
several years opponents were purged from held positions, and many
imprisoned." -- Soviet scientific practice the global warmies desire
to emulate

Lie.

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Nov 24, 10:55*pm, landotter wrote:
On Nov 24, 4:22*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

"Scientific dissent from Lysenko's theories of environmentally
acquired inheritance was formally outlawed in 1948, and for the next
several years opponents were purged from held positions, and many
imprisoned." -- Soviet scientific practice the global warmies desire
to emulate

Lie.

Let's see a sample stalinist behaviour by global warmies:

********
Taken from
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/1174/U...p-in-your-beds
with some minor editing for smoother reading. Go to the link above for
clickable references to the originals:

The full text of the Talking Points Memo:
(Posted under the anonymous byline "The Insolent Braggart")
At what point do we jail or execute global warming deniers
June 2, 2009, 9:42PM
What is so frustrating about these fools is that they are the
politicians and greedy *******s who don't want a cut in their profits
who use bogus science or the lowest scientists in the gene pool who
will distort data for a few bucks. The vast majority of the scientific
minds in the World agree and understand it's a very serious problem
that can do an untold amount of damage to life on Earth.

So when the right wing ****tards have caused it to be too late to fix
the problem, and we start seeing the devastating consequences and we
start seeing end of the World type events - how will we punish those
responsible. It will be too late. So shouldn't we start punishing them
now?

#

Climate Depot Editor's Note:
The Talking Points Memo appeal to execute skeptics is not unique. As
the science behind man-made global warming fears utterly collapses,
many of the biggest promoters of the theory and environmental
activists are growing increasingly desperate.

Looming Question: If the promoters of man-made climate fears truly
believed the "debate is over" and the science is "settled", why is
there such a strong impulse to shut down debate and threaten those who
disagree?

Small sampling of threats, intimidation and censorship:

NASA's James Hansen has called for trials of climate skeptics in 2008
for "high crimes against humanity.”

Environmentalist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. lashed out at skeptics of 2007
declaring “This is treason. And we need to start treating them as
traitors”

In 2009, RFK, Jr. also called coal companies "criminal enterprises"
and declared CEO's 'should be in jail... for all of eternity."

In June 2009, former Clinton Administration official Joe Romm defended
a comment on his Climate Progress website warning skeptics would be
strangled in their beds. "An entire generation will soon be ready to
strangle you and your kind while you sleep in your beds," stated the
remarks, which Romm defended by calling them "not a threat, but a
prediction."

In 2006, the eco-magazine Grist called for Nuremberg-Style trials for
skeptics.

In 2008, Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki called for government
leaders skeptical of global warming to be thrown “into jail.”

In 2007, The Weather Channel's climate expert called for withholding
certification of skeptical meteorologists.

A 2008 report found that 'climate blasphemy' is replacing traditional
religious blasphemy.

In addition, a July 2007 Senate report detailed how skeptical
scientists have faced threats and intimidation.

In 2007, then EPA Chief Vowed to Probe E-mail Threatening to 'Destroy'
Career of Climate Skeptic.

Dissenters of warming fears have been called 'Climate Criminals' who
are committing 'Terracide' (killing of Planet Earth) (July 25, 2007)

In addition, in May 2009, Climate Depot Was Banned in Louisiana! See:
State official sought to 'shut down' climate skeptic's testimony at
hearing.

Below are many more examples of the threats, name calling and
intimidation skeptics have faced in recent times.

November 12, 2007: UN official warns ignoring warming would be
'criminally irresponsible'. Excerpt: The U.N.'s top climate official
warned policymakers and scientists trying to hammer out a landmark
report on climate change that ignoring the urgency of global warming
would be "criminally irresponsible." Yvo de Boer's comments came at
the opening of a weeklong conference that will complete a concise
guide on the state of global warming and what can be done to stop the
Earth from overheating.

September 29. 2007: VA State Climatologist skeptical of global warming
loses job after clash with Governor: 'I was told that I could not
speak in public' Excerpt: Michaels has argued that the climate is
becoming warmer but that the consequences will not be as dire as
others have predicted. Gov. Kaine had warned. Michaels not to use his
official title in discussing his views. "I resigned as Virginia state
climatologist because I was told that I could not speak in public on
my area of expertise, global warming, as state climatologist,"
Michaels said in a statement this week provided by the libertarian
Cato Institute, where he has been a fellow since 1992. "It was
impossible to maintain academic freedom with this speech
restriction." (LINK)

Skeptical State Climatologist in Oregon has title threatened by
Governor (February 8, 2007) Excerpt: “[State Climatologist George
Taylor] does not believe human activities are the main cause of global
climate change...So the [Oregon] governor wants to take that title
from Taylor and make it a position that he would appoint. In an
exclusive interview with KGW-TV, Governor Ted Kulongoski confirmed he
wants to take that title from Taylor.

Skeptical State Climatologist in Delaware silenced by Governor (May 2,
2007) Excerpt: Legates is a state climatologist in Delaware, and he
teaches at the university. He`s not part of the mythical climate
consensus. In fact, Legates believes that we oversimplify climate by
just blaming greenhouse gases. One day he received a letter from the
governor, saying his views do not concur with those of the
administration, so if he wants to speak out, it must be as an
individual, not as a state climatologist. So essentially, you can have
the title of state climatologist unless he`s talking about his views
on climate?

October 28, 2008: License to dissent: 'Internet should be nationalized
as a public utility' to combat global warming skepticism - Australian
Herald Sun - Excerpt: British journalism lecturer and warming alarmist
Alex Lockwood says my blog is a menace to the planet. Skeptical
bloggers like me need bringing into line, and Lockwood tells a
journalism seminar of some options: There is clearly a need for
research into the ways in which climate skepticism online is free to
contest scientific fact. But there is enough here already to put
forward some of the ideas in circulation. One of the founders of the
Internet Vint Cerf, and lead for Google's Internet for Everyone
project, made a recent suggestion that the Internet should be
nationalized as a public utility. As tech policy blogger Jim Harper
argues, “giving power over the Internet to well-heeled interests and
self-interested politicians” is, and I quote, “a bad idea.”

Or in the UK every new online publication could be required to
register with the recently announced Internet watchdog...

November 5, 2008: UK Scientist: 'BBC SHUNNED ME FOR DENYING CLIMATE
CHANGE' – UK Daily Express
Excerpt: FOR YEARS David Bellamy was one of the best known faces on
TV. A respected botanist and the author of 35 books, he had presented
around 400 programmes over the years and was appreciated by audiences
for his boundless enthusiasm. Yet for more than 10 years he has been
out of the limelight, shunned by bosses at the BBC where he made his
name, as well as fellow scientists and environmentalists. His crime?
Bellamy says he doesn't believe in man-made global warming. Here he
reveals why – and the price he has paid for not toeing the orthodox
line on climate change.

U.N. official says it's 'completely immoral' to doubt global warming
fears (May 10, 2007). Excerpt: UN special climate envoy Dr. Gro Harlem
Brundtland declared “it's completely immoral, even, to question” the
UN's scientific “consensus."

Former US Vice President Al Gore compared global warming skeptics to
people who 'believe the moon landing was actually staged in a movie
lot in Arizona' (June 20, 2006)

Gore Refuses to Hear Skeptical Global Warming Views (Video)
UK environment secretary David Miliband said 'those who deny [climate
change] are the flat-Earthers of the twenty-first century' (October 6,
2006)

Weather Channel Climate Expert Calls for Decertifying Global Warming
Skeptics (January 17, 2007) Excerpt: The Weather Channel's most
prominent climatologist is advocating that broadcast meteorologists be
stripped of their scientific certification if they express skepticism
about predictions of manmade catastrophic global warming. This latest
call to silence skeptics follows a year (2006) in which skeptics were
compared to "Holocaust Deniers" and Nuremberg-style war crimes trials
were advocated by several climate alarmists.

Barone: Warmists have 'a desire to kill heretics' -- Calls for capital
punishment for 'global warming deniers' - DC Examiner - June 9, 2009

Strangle Skeptics in Bed! 'An entire generation will soon be ready to
strangle you and your kind while you sleep in your beds' - June 5,
2009
*******

More of this vicious intimidation in the Hadley Hack at
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U44FST89
******

Quad erat demonstrandum. QED.

Andre Jute
Never more brutal than he has to be [in swatting down the enemies of
society] -- Nelson Mandela

[Peter Wieck]

Lie.

Don't waste your time. Andre is trolling for more victims. As he is
entirely invincible to fact or thought, whyinhell do you even attempt
to divert him? He ain't nohow gonna change and all that you do is
provide him a platform from which to repeat himself ad nauseum.

But the questions still remain:

a) Where is the picture of the Andre statue?
b) Does Andre actually own a bicycle?
c) Has anyone actually observed Andre riding a bicycle?
d) Does Andre own a Guitar Amp?
e) Has Andre ever actually touched a guitar-amp in cold blood?

We know he has never touched a tube in cold blood since the 90s, for a
fact. By now familial tremor has likely removed his ability to do much
with them. Sadly he still is able to type.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[thirty-six]

On 24 Nov, 22:55, landotter wrote:
On Nov 24, 4:22*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

"Scientific dissent from Lysenko's theories of environmentally
acquired inheritance was formally outlawed in 1948, and for the next
several years opponents were purged from held positions, and many
imprisoned." -- Soviet scientific practice the global warmies desire
to emulate

Lie.

Galileo, was that the Greek who thought that the square root of 2 was
not 7/5, mostly quietly?

[Fu Knee]

On Nov 24, 9:16�pm, thirty-six wrote:


Galileo, �was that the Greek who thought that the square root of 2 was
not 7/5, mostly quietly?


Gore, didn't he lose to Dubya - even though Gore got more votes? A
modern American hero, indeed.

Happy Ears!

Al

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Nov 26, 9:26*am, Fu Knee wrote:
On Nov 24, 9:16 pm, thirty-six wrote:



Galileo, was that the Greek who thought that the square root of 2 was
not 7/5, mostly quietly?

Gore, didn't he lose to Dubya - even though Gore got more votes? A
modern American hero, indeed.

Damn right, Fat Al is a modern Ameddican hero. He created an entire
luxury industry that we didn't want and didn't need and not only sold
it to us, he is halfway to getting Congress to legislate that we must
all buy it on penalty of going to jail as Global Warming Deniers. Al
Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.

Now which of those two benefited society more?

Come off it, Mr Marcy. There is something fundamentally wrong with a
society in which a monstrous criminal like Al Gore is given an Oscar
and the Nobel Prize for being ignorant and sly, and the very
productive Bill Gates (1) is persecuted by the Justice Department.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information for the tube audio
constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of
wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

(1) I use Macs, of course, but it is incontestable that Gates's
Windows functionally empowered a million people for every one aesthete
that Apple empowered. Gates is a true benefactor of mankind.

[Lord Valve]

Andre Jute wrote:

Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.

Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."

Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."

Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. It's the American Way. ;-)

Lord Valve
Globally Cool American

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Nov 26, 4:54*pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.

Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."

Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). *In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."

Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. *It's the American Way. *;-)

Lord Valve
Globally Cool American

Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business. Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.

Al Gore is well on his way to protect and expand the business of
Goldman Sachs by mobility and productivity, both of them natural human
activities, into crimes.

In the same way that Prohibition turned a stock of whiskey into a
goldmine, Carbon Dispensations is an entirely new form of money that
someone (Goldman Sachs) are being given free of charge by all of us on
Al Gore's say-so. Of course, the other Goldman Sachs partners don't
expect him to do all this work free of charge.

The amazing thing is that the so-called liberals, who would nor need
any prodding from me to fall like a mountain of guano on a Republican
who stole as big as Al Gore does, applaud his blatant thefts.

Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

[RichL]

Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his
billions out of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true
Ameddican liberal, he did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al
will be richer than Bill Gates.

Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."

Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."

Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. It's the American Way. ;-)

Lord Valve
Globally Cool American

Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business. Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.

Interesting that you cite a work of *fiction* to allege that the Mafia
created Prohibition.

Just as in your mentioning Al Gore and Goldman Sachs, you're putting the
cart before the horse.

Fortunately, the few of us remaining that appear to actually have some
knowledge of history realize that the Mafia had nothing to do with the
founding of the temperance movement in the US.

The Mafia *benefited* from the enactment of Prohibition Laws. They
didn't create them.

cue George Santayana

[Peter Wieck]

On Nov 26, 3:42*pm, "RichL" wrote:

Interesting that you cite a work of *fiction* to allege that the Mafia
created Prohibition.

Arguing with invincible ignorance is similar to mud-wrestling with a
pig. Sooner or later you figure out that only the pig is enjoying
himself. Pointing out Andre's near-total revisionist view of history
is similarly futile. However, I must apologize to Sus Domesticus for
associating him with Andre. That is simply not fair.

And you are dead on-point with the Mafia benefiting from prohibition.
And once in place doing all that they could to see that it continued.
Very similar to the Crime Lobby today doing all that they can to keep
street drugs illegal (and therefore profitable).

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Nov 26, 8:42*pm, "RichL" wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his
billions out of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true
Ameddican liberal, he did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al
will be richer than Bill Gates.

Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."

Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."

Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. It's the American Way. ;-)

Lord Valve
Globally Cool American

Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business. Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.

Interesting that you cite a work of *fiction* to allege that the Mafia
created Prohibition.

I didn't allege anything of the kind. I was just making a joke with
Lord Valve, one of the few subtle minds on the net.

Just as in your mentioning Al Gore and Goldman Sachs, you're putting the
cart before the horse.

Sure, I understand, Fat Al is the bella figura of the Carbon Tax, a
front man. They're not actually dumb enough to ask him for economic
advice. (Shudder at the damage he would have done if elected.)

Fortunately, the few of us remaining that appear to actually have some
knowledge of history realize that the Mafia had nothing to do with the
founding of the temperance movement in the US.

Well, Rich, I congratulate you on your history. Pity I cannot
congratulate you equally on your sense of humour.

The Mafia *benefited* from the enactment of Prohibition Laws. *They
didn't create them.

So you say... I believe you. How dull. If Richard Condon were that
dull, we wouldn't have his exciting and interesting novel.

cue George Santayana

I used to drive Porsche, I've had the odd company Mercedes (I liked a
300SEL 6.3 litre of several decades ago -- it was almost as good the 7
litre Ford with which I replaced it), I have a German bike, and I
generally like buying mechanical goodies from German makers because I
appreciate the punctilio of their engineering. However, I prefer my
philosophers less mechanical and my poets, if they really have to be
teutonic, to be set by Wagner (this last here is another joke for
insiders -- work it out). So I'm afraid I've missed your reference,
quite possibly through deliberate ignorance. Why don't you explain
what you mean, Rich.

I bet five bucks to the first collection box either of us sees that
Fat Willie gets the Wagner joke before you do, which brings us right
back to Richard Condon's Mile High speculation-in-farce that the Mafia
is behind global warming... Time to look into who *really* owns
Goldman Sachs.

Thanks for the giggle.

Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

[Les Cargill[_2_]]

Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.
Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."

Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."

Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. It's the American Way. ;-)

Lord Valve
Globally Cool American

Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business.

I haven't read the book. But that is a totally ahistoric view. The
Mafia couldn't do anything like that at the time. The inheritors
of the Abolition mechanism created by people such as Frederick Douglass
went on to attack woman suffrage and then what was called Temperence.

You also have to realize that people around 1890 has a pretty good
chance of being blind drunk all day.

Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.

Al Gore is well on his way to protect and expand the business of
Goldman Sachs by mobility and productivity, both of them natural human
activities, into crimes.


There is nothing natural or human about Goldman Sachs. They in
essence charge massive rents for the privilege of being first in line
at the Fed money trough.

In the same way that Prohibition turned a stock of whiskey into a
goldmine, Carbon Dispensations is an entirely new form of money that
someone (Goldman Sachs) are being given free of charge by all of us on
Al Gore's say-so. Of course, the other Goldman Sachs partners don't
expect him to do all this work free of charge.


Yep.

The amazing thing is that the so-called liberals, who would nor need
any prodding from me to fall like a mountain of guano on a Republican
who stole as big as Al Gore does, applaud his blatant thefts.

Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

--
Les Cargill

[Norman[_9_]]

On Nov 26, 7:21*pm, Les Cargill wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore is well on his way to protect and expand the business of
Goldman Sachs by mobility and productivity, both of them natural human
activities, into crimes.

There is nothing natural or human about Goldman Sachs. They in
essence charge massive rents for the privilege of being first in line
at the Fed money trough.


I'm just not sure that I'm ready to accept a supernatural
explanation for them. Zardoz? Xenu? Dr. Aranya?

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Nov 27, 12:21*am, Les Cargill wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.
Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."

Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). *In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."

Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. *It's the American Way. *;-)

Lord Valve
Globally Cool American

Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business.

I haven't read the book. But that is a totally ahistoric view. The
Mafia couldn't do anything like that at the time.

Yah, I know. And so did Richard Condon. Fiction isn't history.

History may be turned into fiction though, as in the global warming
example.

And the future is always fiction. The IPCC's models were discredited
by not being able to map the past, nor predict that part of the close
future which has already elapsed since they were made -- in short,
since they were *proved* to be utterly useless. So now, instead of
"forecasts", they're called "narratives" -- in short, fiction. The
IPCC of course hopes you will take their "narratives" as special
fiction, much like the special fiction in the Bible, in fact instead
of the Bible. The IPCC stands in the place of those Old Testament
prophets who were always screeching about how the city would fall and
all the men killed, the women raped, and the children carried off to
Bob Dylan concerts.

The inheritors
of the Abolition mechanism created by people such as Frederick Douglass
went on to attack woman suffrage and then what was called Temperence.

Sure. But Condon was just taking a shortcut to the point he really
wanted to make, that the unintended bad effect of the "good
intentions" of Prohibition was to entrench the Mafia right smack bang
in the centre of American life and politics. (Condon the novelist,
long before the pompous political commentators, pointed out that the
PAC was the ideal mechanism for criminals to insert themselves in the
political process.) There is a parallel here with the Carbon Credits,
a new form of money that eventually will cause another crash, just
like the one credit cards (also a form of new money) caused a
generation ago, just as the housing boom caused a couple of years ago.
Except in the case of Carbon Credits, Condon's fiction has now come
true: the criminals, led by Gore, are creating the ripoff themselves,
and poncing around as moral champions and saviours of mankind!

You also have to realize that people around 1890 has a pretty good
chance of being blind drunk all day.

Prohibition didn't solve drunkenness; it just put the profits for
selling drink into the pockets of criminals. What solved those
people's hopelessness was the increasing wealth of society and its
elevation of those same people into the productive middle classes.

Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.

Al Gore is well on his way to protect and expand the business of
Goldman Sachs by turning mobility and productivity, both of them natural human
activities, into crimes.

There is nothing natural or human about Goldman Sachs. They in
essence charge massive rents for the privilege of being first in line
at the Fed money trough.

Sure. That is why they have the ultimate insider, Al Gore, ex-VP, as
their front man. Someone on the Street said to me the other day,
admiringly, "GS have a corner on access. If you want access, you have
to go through their boy." It's the Bobby Baker Dream Experience for
Goldman Sachs.

In the same way that Prohibition turned a stock of whiskey into a
goldmine, Carbon Dispensations is an entirely new form of money that
someone (Goldman Sachs) are being given free of charge by all of us on
Al Gore's say-so. Of course, the other Goldman Sachs partners don't
expect him to do all this work free of charge.

Yep.

The amazing thing is that the so-called liberals, who would nor need
any prodding from me to fall like a mountain of guano on a Republican
who stole as big as Al Gore does, applaud his blatant thefts.

Andre Jute
*Visit Andre's books at
*http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

--
Les Cargill

Hey, Les, you're wasted on AGA. Get a bike, get fit, come to RBT,
stomp a few trendies.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Bicycles at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html

[Rick N. Backer]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Nov 27, 12:21 am, Les Cargill wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions
out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.
Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."

Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."

Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. It's the American Way. ;-)

Lord Valve
Globally Cool American

Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business.

I haven't read the book. But that is a totally ahistoric view. The
Mafia couldn't do anything like that at the time.

Yah, I know. And so did Richard Condon. Fiction isn't history.

History may be turned into fiction though, as in the global warming
example.

And the future is always fiction. The IPCC's models were discredited
by not being able to map the past, nor predict that part of the close
future which has already elapsed since they were made -- in short,
since they were *proved* to be utterly useless. So now, instead of
"forecasts", they're called "narratives" -- in short, fiction. The
IPCC of course hopes you will take their "narratives" as special
fiction, much like the special fiction in the Bible, in fact instead
of the Bible. The IPCC stands in the place of those Old Testament
prophets who were always screeching about how the city would fall and
all the men killed, the women raped, and the children carried off to
Bob Dylan concerts.

The inheritors
of the Abolition mechanism created by people such as Frederick Douglass
went on to attack woman suffrage and then what was called Temperence.

Sure. But Condon was just taking a shortcut to the point he really
wanted to make, that the unintended bad effect of the "good
intentions" of Prohibition was to entrench the Mafia right smack bang
in the centre of American life and politics. (Condon the novelist,
long before the pompous political commentators, pointed out that the
PAC was the ideal mechanism for criminals to insert themselves in the
political process.) There is a parallel here with the Carbon Credits,
a new form of money that eventually will cause another crash, just
like the one credit cards (also a form of new money) caused a
generation ago, just as the housing boom caused a couple of years ago.
Except in the case of Carbon Credits, Condon's fiction has now come
true: the criminals, led by Gore, are creating the ripoff themselves,
and poncing around as moral champions and saviours of mankind!

You also have to realize that people around 1890 has a pretty good
chance of being blind drunk all day.

Prohibition didn't solve drunkenness; it just put the profits for
selling drink into the pockets of criminals. What solved those
people's hopelessness was the increasing wealth of society and its
elevation of those same people into the productive middle classes.

Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.

Al Gore is well on his way to protect and expand the business of
Goldman Sachs by turning mobility and productivity, both of them natural
human
activities, into crimes.

There is nothing natural or human about Goldman Sachs. They in
essence charge massive rents for the privilege of being first in line
at the Fed money trough.

Sure. That is why they have the ultimate insider, Al Gore, ex-VP, as
their front man. Someone on the Street said to me the other day,
admiringly, "GS have a corner on access. If you want access, you have
to go through their boy." It's the Bobby Baker Dream Experience for
Goldman Sachs.

In the same way that Prohibition turned a stock of whiskey into a
goldmine, Carbon Dispensations is an entirely new form of money that
someone (Goldman Sachs) are being given free of charge by all of us on
Al Gore's say-so. Of course, the other Goldman Sachs partners don't
expect him to do all this work free of charge.

Yep.

The amazing thing is that the so-called liberals, who would nor need
any prodding from me to fall like a mountain of guano on a Republican
who stole as big as Al Gore does, applaud his blatant thefts.

Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

--
Les Cargill

Hey, Les, you're wasted on AGA. Get a bike, get fit, come to RBT,
stomp a few trendies.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Bicycles at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html

Hey Andre, go **** yourself. And take that future fish 'n' chip, flipper,
with you. Only good Boer is a dead Boer my granddaddy always told me.

[Les Cargill[_2_]]

Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 27, 12:21 am, Les Cargill wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.
Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."
Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."
Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. It's the American Way. ;-)
Lord Valve
Globally Cool American
Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business.
I haven't read the book. But that is a totally ahistoric view. The
Mafia couldn't do anything like that at the time.

Yah, I know. And so did Richard Condon. Fiction isn't history.


Oh. Well, I missed that it was fiction. As you were.

History may be turned into fiction though, as in the global warming
example.


It's not quite fiction, tho. It's just not quite falsifiable.

And the future is always fiction. The IPCC's models were discredited
by not being able to map the past, nor predict that part of the close
future which has already elapsed since they were made -- in short,
since they were *proved* to be utterly useless. So now, instead of
"forecasts", they're called "narratives" -- in short, fiction. The
IPCC of course hopes you will take their "narratives" as special
fiction, much like the special fiction in the Bible, in fact instead
of the Bible. The IPCC stands in the place of those Old Testament
prophets who were always screeching about how the city would fall and
all the men killed, the women raped, and the children carried off to
Bob Dylan concerts.


It really would be different if we didn't have say, Freeman Dyson
being a good skeptic. Which is how I look at it. Yeah, temperatures
most certainly are rising, and yeah, we've dumped a whole lot of
the Cabroniferous Era biomass back into the atmosphere.

It wouldn't surprise me much at all.

But then it all gets into the ... mediasphere, and becomes a
circus.

The inheritors
of the Abolition mechanism created by people such as Frederick Douglass
went on to attack woman suffrage and then what was called Temperence.

Sure. But Condon was just taking a shortcut to the point he really
wanted to make, that the unintended bad effect of the "good
intentions" of Prohibition was to entrench the Mafia right smack bang
in the centre of American life and politics.

Yup. But there really is more to it than that. European immigrants were
treated like trash, and one effect of TR's "meritocracy" was to
further entrench the ones already here. A Tammany Hall style democracy
( read "corruption" by the TR/Hearst machines ) really was an avenue
for redress on the part of all the Irish, Hunkys and Italians who
emigrated here.

(Condon the novelist,
long before the pompous political commentators, pointed out that the
PAC was the ideal mechanism for criminals to insert themselves in the
political process.) There is a parallel here with the Carbon Credits,
a new form of money that eventually will cause another crash,

Pretty unlikely - the footprint of that market isn't ever going to
be big enough. Look at Exxon's margins - they're very lean. This
tells me that what the effect will be is to reduce demand - and
that's not a bad thing. Fuel used per mile driven like
to *halved* from around 1969 to say, 1982 or 1983.


That's pretty much a doubling in efficiency with no apparent loss in
utility. Seems like a slam-dunk.

just
like the one credit cards (also a form of new money) caused a
generation ago, just as the housing boom caused a couple of years ago.

But that points to a fatal flaw in how 1) credit money works and 2)
how credit money was abused for purposes of electoral politics since
Reagan. Had Clinton known enough, he could have insisted on another
half point base interest rate to damp down the oscillations. But
now you have a generation that knows nothing else but too-low
interest rates.

Except in the case of Carbon Credits, Condon's fiction has now come
true: the criminals, led by Gore, are creating the ripoff themselves,
and poncing around as moral champions and saviours of mankind!


Pigovian taxes themselves are sound. Are Carbon Credits really Pigovian
Taxes? No. But that's just what happens when you get to "tea party"
levels of popular politics.

You also have to realize that people around 1890 has a pretty good
chance of being blind drunk all day.

Prohibition didn't solve drunkenness; it just put the profits for
selling drink into the pockets of criminals. What solved those
people's hopelessness was the increasing wealth of society and its
elevation of those same people into the productive middle classes.


When Thomas More wrote "Utopia", he meant it as it transliterates -
"noplace". That's what usually happens to the Utopian bent in
American ( or any ) politics - it simply doesn't fit. We are what
we is...

Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.
Al Gore is well on his way to protect and expand the business of
Goldman Sachs by turning mobility and productivity, both of them natural human
activities, into crimes.
There is nothing natural or human about Goldman Sachs. They in
essence charge massive rents for the privilege of being first in line
at the Fed money trough.

Sure. That is why they have the ultimate insider, Al Gore, ex-VP, as
their front man. Someone on the Street said to me the other day,
admiringly, "GS have a corner on access. If you want access, you have
to go through their boy." It's the Bobby Baker Dream Experience for
Goldman Sachs.


But GS is like Halliburton was for the nobid contracts in Gulf War II -
they're the only firm that can do it, really.

it's a *huge* story, goes back to the Medici, and in the nearer term,
to Jefferson/Jackson vs. Hamilton. It's a profound and continuing
difference on deep principle.

In the same way that Prohibition turned a stock of whiskey into a
goldmine, Carbon Dispensations is an entirely new form of money that
someone (Goldman Sachs) are being given free of charge by all of us on
Al Gore's say-so. Of course, the other Goldman Sachs partners don't
expect him to do all this work free of charge.
Yep.

The amazing thing is that the so-called liberals, who would nor need
any prodding from me to fall like a mountain of guano on a Republican
who stole as big as Al Gore does, applaud his blatant thefts.
Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html
--
Les Cargill

Hey, Les, you're wasted on AGA. Get a bike, get fit, come to RBT,
stomp a few trendies.


I am actually kinda looking at bikes - I live in a place right now
where, when the weather warms up, I could actually use it. But the
cost difference is close to nil, and it's still probably thirty
minutes lost per day ( which really isn't enough time to be good
exercise ). Plus, the cage drivers own the road. I simply can't
get into bicycles beyond a purely utilitarian thing, and I
look like the Michelin Man in spandex.... I did have a lawn mowing
"business" in Junior High, pulling a mower behind a tenspeed. Good
times. Bought a lot of gear that way, good exercise.

But thanks for the kind offer. I really do get a good view of
what people think from here - I'll read something on here weeks
before it bubbles up on TV. I also know that, for bad or for good,
people with guitars have done much to change the world, and a lot
for the better.

You might be able to answer a question for me, though: when somebody
rides a bike for a mile, flat and level, just keeping an even pace
that's highly sustainable ( as in "for transportation purposes" type
pacing) what is the *total* carbon emitted? Counting
back all the way to the beef in the McDonalds he ate, the grain used
to feed the cow, the energy consumed growing that, the truck that
carried all that, all that.

I will bet that a little 100W to 500W gasoline motor that does pedal
assist emits less CO2 than the person pedalling, but it's a big
calculation, and I haven't done it. I thought maybe you had
seen somebody who has. And I will bet than an aircooled engine like
that, so long as the exhaust gas temperature is high enough, could
beat human muscle power for efficiency.

But somebody who grows their own potatoes might be able to beat that.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Bicycles at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html

--
Les Cargill

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

Andre Jute and Les Cargill were having an agreeable chat until that
loser Kennie Wilson aka Rick N. Backer
butted in:

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Nov 27, 12:21 am, Les Cargill wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions
out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.
Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."

Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."

Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. It's the American Way. ;-)

Lord Valve
Globally Cool American

Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business.

I haven't read the book. But that is a totally ahistoric view. The
Mafia couldn't do anything like that at the time.

Yah, I know. And so did Richard Condon. Fiction isn't history.

History may be turned into fiction though, as in the global warming
example.

And the future is always fiction. The IPCC's models were discredited
by not being able to map the past, nor predict that part of the close
future which has already elapsed since they were made -- in short,
since they were *proved* to be utterly useless. So now, instead of
"forecasts", they're called "narratives" -- in short, fiction. The
IPCC of course hopes you will take their "narratives" as special
fiction, much like the special fiction in the Bible, in fact instead
of the Bible. The IPCC stands in the place of those Old Testament
prophets who were always screeching about how the city would fall and
all the men killed, the women raped, and the children carried off to
Bob Dylan concerts.

The inheritors
of the Abolition mechanism created by people such as Frederick Douglass
went on to attack woman suffrage and then what was called Temperence.

Sure. But Condon was just taking a shortcut to the point he really
wanted to make, that the unintended bad effect of the "good
intentions" of Prohibition was to entrench the Mafia right smack bang
in the centre of American life and politics. (Condon the novelist,
long before the pompous political commentators, pointed out that the
PAC was the ideal mechanism for criminals to insert themselves in the
political process.) There is a parallel here with the Carbon Credits,
a new form of money that eventually will cause another crash, just
like the one credit cards (also a form of new money) caused a
generation ago, just as the housing boom caused a couple of years ago.
Except in the case of Carbon Credits, Condon's fiction has now come
true: the criminals, led by Gore, are creating the ripoff themselves,
and poncing around as moral champions and saviours of mankind!

You also have to realize that people around 1890 has a pretty good
chance of being blind drunk all day.

Prohibition didn't solve drunkenness; it just put the profits for
selling drink into the pockets of criminals. What solved those
people's hopelessness was the increasing wealth of society and its
elevation of those same people into the productive middle classes.

Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.

Al Gore is well on his way to protect and expand the business of
Goldman Sachs by turning mobility and productivity, both of them natural
human
activities, into crimes.

There is nothing natural or human about Goldman Sachs. They in
essence charge massive rents for the privilege of being first in line
at the Fed money trough.

Sure. That is why they have the ultimate insider, Al Gore, ex-VP, as
their front man. Someone on the Street said to me the other day,
admiringly, "GS have a corner on access. If you want access, you have
to go through their boy." It's the Bobby Baker Dream Experience for
Goldman Sachs.

In the same way that Prohibition turned a stock of whiskey into a
goldmine, Carbon Dispensations is an entirely new form of money that
someone (Goldman Sachs) are being given free of charge by all of us on
Al Gore's say-so. Of course, the other Goldman Sachs partners don't
expect him to do all this work free of charge.

Yep.

The amazing thing is that the so-called liberals, who would nor need
any prodding from me to fall like a mountain of guano on a Republican
who stole as big as Al Gore does, applaud his blatant thefts.

Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

--
Les Cargill

Hey, Les, you're wasted on AGA. Get a bike, get fit, come to RBT,
stomp a few trendies.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Bicycles at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html

At which point one Rick N. Backer butted
in:

***Hey Andre, go **** yourself.

You're way out of your depth, sonny. Stick to what you know, if
anything.

***And take that future fish 'n' chip, flipper, with you.

I noticed flipper flattening you like filleted sole, again and again,
and wondered how long it would be before you blew up and started
threatening him.

***Only good Boer is a dead Boer my granddaddy always told me.

No surprise that you're a racist as well as an incompetent and an
ignoramus, Kennie. Never mind, nobody pays any attention to Canadians.
As for you being a global warmie, being an impressionable fashion
victim goes with your weak character; being trendy by doing what the
lowest common denominator does has always been your only talent. But
out here in the real world, with people who know what they're talking
about, what the little gangbangers on your street corner think just
won't cut it.

Jesus blesses you all the same, sonny.

Andre Jute
An awesome judge of character

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Nov 24, 10:22*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
"You fail to understand the true nature of the conflict [between the
global warmies and the skeptics]. You claim that they are wrong, and
you'd like them to admit it and get busy with correction of flawed or
fudged data. *They claim that you are a heretic, and
want you burned. Galileo, anyone?" -- Lord Valve

"Show the heretic the instruments [of torture]" -- Stage in the
process that leads to recantation or burning in the Inquisition

"Scientific dissent from Lysenko's theories of environmentally
acquired inheritance was formally outlawed in 1948, and for the next
several years opponents were purged from held positions, and many
imprisoned." -- Soviet scientific practice the global warmies desire
to emulate

Collated by Andre Jute

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Nov 27, 4:44*pm, Les Cargill wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 27, 12:21 am, Les Cargill wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.
Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."
Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). *In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."
Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. *It's the American Way. *;-)
Lord Valve
Globally Cool American
Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business.
I haven't read the book. But that is a totally ahistoric view. The
Mafia couldn't do anything like that at the time.

Yah, I know. And so did Richard Condon. Fiction isn't history.

Oh. Well, I missed that it was fiction. As you were.

History may be turned into fiction though, as in the global warming
example.

It's not quite fiction, tho. It's just not quite falsifiable.

Before the theory can even become falsifiable, global warming
climatology needs a hypothesis. At present they don't have one: an
assumption that CO2 is guilty (and I choose the emotive word
deliberately because that is how these clowns do "science") because
"we don't know what else it could be" isn't even a hypothesis, it is a
limp admission of defeat. After they have a hypothesis that links
global warming to CO2, they need to prove the link, which will be
pretty nigh impossible, what with the 800 years by which temperature
increase *leads* CO2 increase. And even if they arrive at a workable
theory, every eleven years or so sunspots will upset their
predictions. If those guys hadn't already been exposed as such crooks
and liars and frauds, I would feel sorry for them.

And the future is always fiction. The IPCC's models were discredited
by not being able to map the past, nor predict that part of the close
future which has already elapsed since they were made -- in short,
since they were *proved* to be utterly useless. So now, instead of
"forecasts", they're called "narratives" -- in short, fiction. The
IPCC of course hopes you will take their "narratives" as special
fiction, much like the special fiction in the Bible, in fact instead
of the Bible. The IPCC stands in the place of those Old Testament
prophets who were always screeching about how the city would fall and
all the men killed, the women raped, and the children carried off to
Bob Dylan concerts.

It really would be different if we didn't have say, Freeman Dyson
being a good skeptic. Which is how I look at it. Yeah, temperatures
most certainly are rising,

Of course they are. We're on the uptrend from an ice age towards the
balmer temperatures that reigned for centuries during the Medieval
Warm Period. Nothing wrong with an uptrend, nor with its natural
variability. The problem isn't the temperature but scientists who lie
about what it means because they want to be policy-makers.

and yeah, we've dumped a whole lot of
the Cabroniferous Era biomass back into the atmosphere.

Atmospheric CO2 levels have been at ten times the current level --
during an ice age.

CO2 must have looked like an easy target with a lot of emotive
baggage, and already several strikes against it in the anti-smog wars,
but it was always going to be a very hard proof -- those guys shoulda
picked on sunspots instead, and it would have been an easy proof,
besides being more likely true.

It wouldn't surprise me much at all.

But then it all gets into the ... mediasphere, and becomes a
circus.

Those guys welcomed the fifteen minutes of fame Andy Warhol promised
each of them.

The inheritors
of the Abolition mechanism created by people such as Frederick Douglass
went on to attack woman suffrage and then what was called Temperence.

Sure. But Condon was just taking a shortcut to the point he really
wanted to make, that the unintended bad effect of the "good
intentions" of Prohibition was to entrench the Mafia right smack bang
in the centre of American life and politics.

Yup. But there really is more to it than that. European immigrants were
treated like trash, and one effect of TR's "meritocracy" was to
further entrench the ones already here. A Tammany Hall style democracy
( read "corruption" by the TR/Hearst machines ) really was an avenue
for redress on the part of all the Irish, Hunkys and Italians who
emigrated here.

From the many, one ... crooked politician? You put it like that,
crooked science becomes almost inevitable.

(Condon the novelist,
long before the pompous political commentators, pointed out that the
PAC was the ideal mechanism for criminals to insert themselves in the
political process.) There is a parallel here with the Carbon Credits,
a new form of money that eventually will cause another crash,

Pretty unlikely - the footprint of that market isn't ever going to
be big enough. Look at Exxon's margins - they're very lean. This
tells me that what the effect will be is to reduce demand - and
that's not a bad thing. Fuel used per mile driven like
to *halved* from around 1969 to say, 1982 or 1983.

It's not Exxon's margins that are the point here, but that everyone is
a carbon producer. I can easily see a breathing tax...

That's pretty much a doubling in efficiency with no apparent loss in
utility. Seems like a slam-dunk.

I'm an economist by training and practiced in industry, generally on
loan from my ad agency as a marketing adviser, an inventor of market
niches and products to fill them with once I created them; one of the
most powerful concepts in economic theory, and one of the most
intractable in practice, is marginality -- marginality is an ever-
decreasing gain, until the moment arrives when the gain is so small
the effort isn't worth the profit (the only people who can go past
that point and stay in business are monopolies, and of course it won't
escape you that governments are the ultimate monopolies). While I
don't believe the automobile is anywhere near the final margin of
efficiency, I can see it happening in the next generation. My WAG
would be that we're halfway up that curve.

just
like the one credit cards (also a form of new money) caused a
generation ago, just as the housing boom caused a couple of years ago.

But that points to a fatal flaw in how 1) credit money works and 2)
how credit money was abused for purposes of electoral politics since
Reagan. Had Clinton known enough, he could have insisted on another
half point base interest rate to damp down the oscillations. But
now you have a generation that knows nothing else but too-low
interest rates.

It is possible the cycle is getting shorter. Or perhaps we're smarter
about handling it. Or it might even be that Keynes was right, it
doesn't matter what the government does as long as it prints money. My
own suspicion is that we've multiplied the kinds of money so much, and
made our business so multinational that there is always some areas
which are untouched by disaster and they then lead the bounceback.

Except in the case of Carbon Credits, Condon's fiction has now come
true: the criminals, led by Gore, are creating the ripoff themselves,
and poncing around as moral champions and saviours of mankind!

Pigovian taxes themselves are sound. Are Carbon Credits really Pigovian
Taxes? No. But that's just what happens when you get to "tea party"
levels of popular politics.

Only people of a certain advanced age, or the possessors of very
expensive educations, still expect principle to drive politics in the
soundbite age.

You also have to realize that people around 1890 has a pretty good
chance of being blind drunk all day.

Prohibition didn't solve drunkenness; it just put the profits for
selling drink into the pockets of criminals. What solved those
people's hopelessness was the increasing wealth of society and its
elevation of those same people into the productive middle classes.

When Thomas More wrote "Utopia", he meant it as it transliterates -
"noplace". That's what usually happens to the Utopian bent in
American ( or any ) politics - it simply doesn't fit. We are what
we is...

Oh, come, the land of opportunity. It worked for several centuries,
and across the border in Mexico they still think it works...

Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.
Al Gore is well on his way to protect and expand the business of
Goldman Sachs by turning mobility and productivity, both of them natural human
activities, into crimes.
There is nothing natural or human about Goldman Sachs. They in
essence charge massive rents for the privilege of being first in line
at the Fed money trough.

Sure. That is why they have the ultimate insider, Al Gore, ex-VP, as
their front man. Someone on the Street said to me the other day,
admiringly, "GS have a corner on access. If you want access, you have
to go through their boy." It's the Bobby Baker Dream Experience for
Goldman Sachs.

But GS is like Halliburton was for the nobid contracts in Gulf War II -
they're the only firm that can do it, really.

That's debatable, but there's no point in wasting time debating the
details, as the principle at stake is that there until there is
scientific proof there is no moral reason to tax carbon. This is hate-
politics, and Goldman Sach will get a windfall out of hate-politics.

it's a *huge* story, goes back to the Medici, and in the nearer term,
to Jefferson/Jackson vs. Hamilton. It's a profound and continuing
difference on deep principle.

Ah, yes, I see, you're there alrady.

In the same way that Prohibition turned a stock of whiskey into a
goldmine, Carbon Dispensations is an entirely new form of money that
someone (Goldman Sachs) are being given free of charge by all of us on
Al Gore's say-so. Of course, the other Goldman Sachs partners don't
expect him to do all this work free of charge.
Yep.

The amazing thing is that the so-called liberals, who would nor need
any prodding from me to fall like a mountain of guano on a Republican
who stole as big as Al Gore does, applaud his blatant thefts.
Andre Jute
*Visit Andre's books at
*http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html
--
Les Cargill

Hey, Les, you're wasted on AGA. Get a bike, get fit, come to RBT,
stomp a few trendies.

I am actually kinda looking at bikes - I live in a place right now
where, when the weather warms up, I could actually use it. But the
cost difference is close to nil, and it's still probably thirty
minutes lost per day ( *which really isn't enough time to be good
exercise ). Plus, the cage drivers own the road. I simply can't
get into bicycles beyond a purely utilitarian thing,

Oh, I don't ride racers -- I leave that to the shaveleg roadies. I
ride comfortable upright Dutch and German commuting/touring bikes with
relaxed angles and sprung Brooks seats and upcurved North Road bars.
And 60mm wide tyres for comfort.

and I
look like the Michelin Man in spandex....

Nah, I leave that to the shavelegs too. To cycle, I wear clothes,
khakis in summer, cords in winter, cotton shirts, smooth in summer,
brushed in winter. That special "cycling" plastic just makes you
stink.

I did have a lawn mowing
"business" in Junior High, pulling a mower behind a tenspeed. Good
times. Bought a lot of gear that way, good exercise.

But thanks for the kind offer. I really do get a good view of
what people think from here - I'll read something on here weeks
before it bubbles up on TV. I also know that, for bad or for good,
people with guitars have done much to change the world,

As the late, great Harvey Rosenberg, Dr Gizmo, said, "Shtupping the
daughters of the Daughters of the American Revolution"!

and a lot
for the better.

You might be able to answer a question for me, though: when somebody
rides a bike for a mile, flat and level, just keeping an even pace
that's highly sustainable ( as in "for transportation purposes" type
pacing) *what is the *total* carbon emitted? Counting
back all the way to the beef in the McDonalds he ate, the grain used
to feed the cow, the energy consumed growing that, the truck that
carried all that, all that.

I will bet that a little 100W to 500W gasoline motor that does pedal
assist emits less CO2 than the person pedalling, but it's a big
calculation, and I haven't done it. I thought maybe you had
seen somebody who has. And I will bet than an aircooled engine like
that, so long as the exhaust gas temperature is high enough, could
beat human muscle power for efficiency.

But somebody who grows their own potatoes might be able to beat that.

I've made a separate thread for your question, which is the sort of
thing RBT is amazingly good at, considering how many of the members
think global warming is science.

Andre Jute
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/Andre%20Jute's%20Utopia%20Kranich.pdf

[Michael Press]

In article ,
Les Cargill wrote:

I am actually kinda looking at bikes - I live in a place right now
where, when the weather warms up, I could actually use it. But the
cost difference is close to nil, and it's still probably thirty
minutes lost per day ( which really isn't enough time to be good
exercise ). Plus, the cage drivers own the road. I simply can't
get into bicycles beyond a purely utilitarian thing, and I
look like the Michelin Man in spandex.... I did have a lawn mowing
"business" in Junior High, pulling a mower behind a tenspeed. Good
times. Bought a lot of gear that way, good exercise.

But thanks for the kind offer. I really do get a good view of
what people think from here - I'll read something on here weeks
before it bubbles up on TV. I also know that, for bad or for good,
people with guitars have done much to change the world, and a lot
for the better.

You might be able to answer a question for me, though: when somebody
rides a bike for a mile, flat and level, just keeping an even pace
that's highly sustainable ( as in "for transportation purposes" type
pacing) what is the *total* carbon emitted? Counting
back all the way to the beef in the McDonalds he ate, the grain used
to feed the cow, the energy consumed growing that, the truck that
carried all that, all that.

I will bet that a little 100W to 500W gasoline motor that does pedal
assist emits less CO2 than the person pedalling, but it's a big
calculation, and I haven't done it. I thought maybe you had
seen somebody who has. And I will bet than an aircooled engine like
that, so long as the exhaust gas temperature is high enough, could
beat human muscle power for efficiency.

I do not ride a utility bicycle to save gasoline,
nor do I ride loops in the hills for exercise or
recreation. A bicycle is easier to park, the wind
in my face is pleasant, most car drivers are
pleasant, steering a bicycle in traffic is more
fun than steering a car in traffic.

--
Michael Press

[AMuzi]

Les Cargill wrote:
I am actually kinda looking at bikes - I live in a place right now
where, when the weather warms up, I could actually use it. But the
cost difference is close to nil, and it's still probably thirty
minutes lost per day ( which really isn't enough time to be good
exercise ). Plus, the cage drivers own the road. I simply can't
get into bicycles beyond a purely utilitarian thing, and I
look like the Michelin Man in spandex.... I did have a lawn mowing
"business" in Junior High, pulling a mower behind a tenspeed. Good
times. Bought a lot of gear that way, good exercise.

But thanks for the kind offer. I really do get a good view of
what people think from here - I'll read something on here weeks
before it bubbles up on TV. I also know that, for bad or for good,
people with guitars have done much to change the world, and a lot
for the better.

You might be able to answer a question for me, though: when somebody
rides a bike for a mile, flat and level, just keeping an even pace
that's highly sustainable ( as in "for transportation purposes" type
pacing) what is the *total* carbon emitted? Counting
back all the way to the beef in the McDonalds he ate, the grain used
to feed the cow, the energy consumed growing that, the truck that
carried all that, all that.
I will bet that a little 100W to 500W gasoline motor that does pedal
assist emits less CO2 than the person pedalling, but it's a big
calculation, and I haven't done it. I thought maybe you had
seen somebody who has. And I will bet than an aircooled engine like
that, so long as the exhaust gas temperature is high enough, could
beat human muscle power for efficiency.

Michael Press wrote:
I do not ride a utility bicycle to save gasoline,
nor do I ride loops in the hills for exercise or
recreation. A bicycle is easier to park, the wind
in my face is pleasant, most car drivers are
pleasant, steering a bicycle in traffic is more
fun than steering a car in traffic.


Much wisdom in that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Les Cargill[_2_]]

Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 27, 4:44 pm, Les Cargill wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 27, 12:21 am, Les Cargill wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Al Gore called his invention Carbon Credits and he made his billions out
of it, never forgetting to say that, like a true Ameddican liberal, he
did it all for the little man. Soon Fat Al will be richer than Bill
Gates.
Actually, I prefer the term "carbon indulgences."
Algore, as the Pope of Global Warming (he used to be
America's Secular Jesus, but his title was usurped by
the Chocolate Easter Bunny) sells these indulgences
to various sinners, who are then assured they won't
burn (nor will the planet). In a truly legendary exercise
of chutzpah, whenever His Holy Presence is required
at some AGW shindig, he buys them from *himself*
to make up for the stank spewed by his Gulfstream
400 on the way to lecturing people on how they should
swelter/freeze in the dark in order to "save the planet."
Gotta hand it to him - if you're gonna lie and steal,
lie and steal *big*. It's the American Way. ;-)
Lord Valve
Globally Cool American
Richard Condon, one of the most underrated American writers of all
time, in a novel called "Mile High" (about 1969) explained how the
Mafia created Prohibition in order to protect and expand their
business.
I haven't read the book. But that is a totally ahistoric view. The
Mafia couldn't do anything like that at the time.
Yah, I know. And so did Richard Condon. Fiction isn't history.
Oh. Well, I missed that it was fiction. As you were.

History may be turned into fiction though, as in the global warming
example.
It's not quite fiction, tho. It's just not quite falsifiable.

Before the theory can even become falsifiable, global warming
climatology needs a hypothesis. At present they don't have one: an
assumption that CO2 is guilty (and I choose the emotive word
deliberately because that is how these clowns do "science") because
"we don't know what else it could be" isn't even a hypothesis, it is a
limp admission of defeat. After they have a hypothesis that links
global warming to CO2, they need to prove the link, which will be
pretty nigh impossible, what with the 800 years by which temperature
increase *leads* CO2 increase. And even if they arrive at a workable
theory, every eleven years or so sunspots will upset their
predictions. If those guys hadn't already been exposed as such crooks
and liars and frauds, I would feel sorry for them.


I can't quite countenance "liars and frauds" just yet. Never ascribe
to malice...

And the future is always fiction. The IPCC's models were discredited
by not being able to map the past, nor predict that part of the close
future which has already elapsed since they were made -- in short,
since they were *proved* to be utterly useless. So now, instead of
"forecasts", they're called "narratives" -- in short, fiction. The
IPCC of course hopes you will take their "narratives" as special
fiction, much like the special fiction in the Bible, in fact instead
of the Bible. The IPCC stands in the place of those Old Testament
prophets who were always screeching about how the city would fall and
all the men killed, the women raped, and the children carried off to
Bob Dylan concerts.
It really would be different if we didn't have say, Freeman Dyson
being a good skeptic. Which is how I look at it. Yeah, temperatures
most certainly are rising,

Of course they are. We're on the uptrend from an ice age towards the
balmer temperatures that reigned for centuries during the Medieval
Warm Period. Nothing wrong with an uptrend, nor with its natural
variability. The problem isn't the temperature but scientists who lie
about what it means because they want to be policy-makers.


I can't see inside their brains. I must give benefit of the doubt,
but verify as best I can.

But I think your observations dovetail quite nicely with social
effects from "Careers in SCIENCE!" being oversold, and the absolute
irresistibility of the Jeremiad as entertainment product.

and yeah, we've dumped a whole lot of
the Cabroniferous Era biomass back into the atmosphere.

Atmospheric CO2 levels have been at ten times the current level --
during an ice age.


I was not going to bring that up - we have significantly different
"initial conditions" to be sensitive to now. When one considers the
sheer amount of thermodynamic mass that must be moved to achieve
one degree's difference in global temperature ( the atmosphere
represents roughly 4.41 million billion tons of matter), you have
to be somewhat ... humble in your predictions.

CO2 must have looked like an easy target with a lot of emotive
baggage, and already several strikes against it in the anti-smog wars,
but it was always going to be a very hard proof -- those guys shoulda
picked on sunspots instead, and it would have been an easy proof,
besides being more likely true.

It wouldn't surprise me much at all.

But then it all gets into the ... mediasphere, and becomes a
circus.

Those guys welcomed the fifteen minutes of fame Andy Warhol promised
each of them.


But people are like that. We all are.

The inheritors
of the Abolition mechanism created by people such as Frederick Douglass
went on to attack woman suffrage and then what was called Temperence.
Sure. But Condon was just taking a shortcut to the point he really
wanted to make, that the unintended bad effect of the "good
intentions" of Prohibition was to entrench the Mafia right smack bang
in the centre of American life and politics.
Yup. But there really is more to it than that. European immigrants were
treated like trash, and one effect of TR's "meritocracy" was to
further entrench the ones already here. A Tammany Hall style democracy
( read "corruption" by the TR/Hearst machines ) really was an avenue
for redress on the part of all the Irish, Hunkys and Italians who
emigrated here.

From the many, one ... crooked politician? You put it like that,
crooked science becomes almost inevitable.


NO, It's much worse than that. We have no coherent ruler to measure
crooked *with*. Hearst was a warped human being, and what we're fed
as children on the concept of social evil is pretty much straight
up Hearst, because there was simply so much of it.

The people who might have been able to offer an alternate view have been
dead for a very long time. Even Ambrose Bierce was a Hearst employee.

It's just that media in America is a long chain monoculture, with
steep dropoffs off the beaten path. And it's just eat up with advertising.

We're working from roughly 1% of the available information stock *at
best*. The reality is mostly much worse.

(Condon the novelist,
long before the pompous political commentators, pointed out that the
PAC was the ideal mechanism for criminals to insert themselves in the
political process.) There is a parallel here with the Carbon Credits,
a new form of money that eventually will cause another crash,
Pretty unlikely - the footprint of that market isn't ever going to
be big enough. Look at Exxon's margins - they're very lean. This
tells me that what the effect will be is to reduce demand - and
that's not a bad thing. Fuel used per mile driven like
to *halved* from around 1969 to say, 1982 or 1983.

It's not Exxon's margins that are the point here, but that everyone is
a carbon producer. I can easily see a breathing tax...

That's pretty much a doubling in efficiency with no apparent loss in
utility. Seems like a slam-dunk.

I'm an economist by training and practiced in industry, generally on
loan from my ad agency as a marketing adviser, an inventor of market
niches and products to fill them with once I created them; one of the
most powerful concepts in economic theory, and one of the most
intractable in practice, is marginality -- marginality is an ever-
decreasing gain, until the moment arrives when the gain is so small
the effort isn't worth the profit (the only people who can go past
that point and stay in business are monopolies, and of course it won't
escape you that governments are the ultimate monopolies). While I
don't believe the automobile is anywhere near the final margin of
efficiency, I can see it happening in the next generation. My WAG
would be that we're halfway up that curve.


Only if. And your "halfway" probably started well over 100 years ago,
with tools like what were seen in action in "There Will Be Blood" -
cable rigs and poker faces.

just
like the one credit cards (also a form of new money) caused a
generation ago, just as the housing boom caused a couple of years ago.
But that points to a fatal flaw in how 1) credit money works and 2)
how credit money was abused for purposes of electoral politics since
Reagan. Had Clinton known enough, he could have insisted on another
half point base interest rate to damp down the oscillations. But
now you have a generation that knows nothing else but too-low
interest rates.

It is possible the cycle is getting shorter. Or perhaps we're smarter
about handling it. Or it might even be that Keynes was right, it
doesn't matter what the government does as long as it prints money.

Right. We may be able to write our own tickets, so long as the bread and
circuses hold out. Right now, we can make utterly stupendous yields of
corn from next to no land at all.

My
own suspicion is that we've multiplied the kinds of money so much, and
made our business so multinational that there is always some areas
which are untouched by disaster and they then lead the bounceback.


Hard to say. The herd decides.

Except in the case of Carbon Credits, Condon's fiction has now come
true: the criminals, led by Gore, are creating the ripoff themselves,
and poncing around as moral champions and saviours of mankind!
Pigovian taxes themselves are sound. Are Carbon Credits really Pigovian
Taxes? No. But that's just what happens when you get to "tea party"
levels of popular politics.

Only people of a certain advanced age, or the possessors of very
expensive educations, still expect principle to drive politics in the
soundbite age.


But every man jack in this country can smell the delicate aroma of
bovine feces many miles away. It's a balance.

They also understand principle pretty well. They saw more principle
in the guy that won than in the guy who lost, and that is a fact.

You also have to realize that people around 1890 has a pretty good
chance of being blind drunk all day.
Prohibition didn't solve drunkenness; it just put the profits for
selling drink into the pockets of criminals. What solved those
people's hopelessness was the increasing wealth of society and its
elevation of those same people into the productive middle classes.
When Thomas More wrote "Utopia", he meant it as it transliterates -
"noplace". That's what usually happens to the Utopian bent in
American ( or any ) politics - it simply doesn't fit. We are what
we is...

Oh, come, the land of opportunity. It worked for several centuries,
and across the border in Mexico they still think it works...


But it still does! We just can't see it as well. That's what's
incredible about it. Production is so high it's invisible.

Prohibition made the entirely human activity of drinking
alcohol a crime.
Al Gore is well on his way to protect and expand the business of
Goldman Sachs by turning mobility and productivity, both of them natural human
activities, into crimes.
There is nothing natural or human about Goldman Sachs. They in
essence charge massive rents for the privilege of being first in line
at the Fed money trough.
Sure. That is why they have the ultimate insider, Al Gore, ex-VP, as
their front man. Someone on the Street said to me the other day,
admiringly, "GS have a corner on access. If you want access, you have
to go through their boy." It's the Bobby Baker Dream Experience for
Goldman Sachs.
But GS is like Halliburton was for the nobid contracts in Gulf War II -
they're the only firm that can do it, really.

That's debatable, but there's no point in wasting time debating the
details, as the principle at stake is that there until there is
scientific proof there is no moral reason to tax carbon. This is hate-
politics, and Goldman Sach will get a windfall out of hate-politics.


And oh well. I can't name the firms that made money offa the sinking
of the Maine, but they're doubtless there still.


it's a *huge* story, goes back to the Medici, and in the nearer term,
to Jefferson/Jackson vs. Hamilton. It's a profound and continuing
difference on deep principle.

Ah, yes, I see, you're there alrady.


Yessir. Great story , that.

In the same way that Prohibition turned a stock of whiskey into a
goldmine, Carbon Dispensations is an entirely new form of money that
someone (Goldman Sachs) are being given free of charge by all of us on
Al Gore's say-so. Of course, the other Goldman Sachs partners don't
expect him to do all this work free of charge.
Yep.
The amazing thing is that the so-called liberals, who would nor need
any prodding from me to fall like a mountain of guano on a Republican
who stole as big as Al Gore does, applaud his blatant thefts.
Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html
--
Les Cargill
Hey, Les, you're wasted on AGA. Get a bike, get fit, come to RBT,
stomp a few trendies.
I am actually kinda looking at bikes - I live in a place right now
where, when the weather warms up, I could actually use it. But the
cost difference is close to nil, and it's still probably thirty
minutes lost per day ( which really isn't enough time to be good
exercise ). Plus, the cage drivers own the road. I simply can't
get into bicycles beyond a purely utilitarian thing,

Oh, I don't ride racers -- I leave that to the shaveleg roadies. I
ride comfortable upright Dutch and German commuting/touring bikes with
relaxed angles and sprung Brooks seats and upcurved North Road bars.
And 60mm wide tyres for comfort.


Sounds relaxed.

and I
look like the Michelin Man in spandex....

Nah, I leave that to the shavelegs too. To cycle, I wear clothes,
khakis in summer, cords in winter, cotton shirts, smooth in summer,
brushed in winter. That special "cycling" plastic just makes you
stink.




I did have a lawn mowing
"business" in Junior High, pulling a mower behind a tenspeed. Good
times. Bought a lot of gear that way, good exercise.

But thanks for the kind offer. I really do get a good view of
what people think from here - I'll read something on here weeks
before it bubbles up on TV. I also know that, for bad or for good,
people with guitars have done much to change the world,

As the late, great Harvey Rosenberg, Dr Gizmo, said, "Shtupping the
daughters of the Daughters of the American Revolution"!



Now that was funny.

No, Woody Guthrie had a sticker on his guitar that said "This Machine
Kills Fascists" ( and he meant it ), Steve Earle never quite put the
same sticker on *his* guitar, and James McMurtry wrote both this:
"This song goes out to the congregation of the First United
Crystal Methodists."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwbO8efl1Cw
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW0y6kazWM

Some of the better economics I have run across.

and a lot
for the better.

You might be able to answer a question for me, though: when somebody
rides a bike for a mile, flat and level, just keeping an even pace
that's highly sustainable ( as in "for transportation purposes" type
pacing) what is the *total* carbon emitted? Counting
back all the way to the beef in the McDonalds he ate, the grain used
to feed the cow, the energy consumed growing that, the truck that
carried all that, all that.

I will bet that a little 100W to 500W gasoline motor that does pedal
assist emits less CO2 than the person pedalling, but it's a big
calculation, and I haven't done it. I thought maybe you had
seen somebody who has. And I will bet than an aircooled engine like
that, so long as the exhaust gas temperature is high enough, could
beat human muscle power for efficiency.

But somebody who grows their own potatoes might be able to beat that.

I've made a separate thread for your question, which is the sort of
thing RBT is amazingly good at, considering how many of the members
think global warming is science.


And I saw that. We'll see what happens.

Andre Jute
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/Andre%20Jute's%20Utopia%20Kranich.pdf

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_2_]]

Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Les Cargill wrote:

I am actually kinda looking at bikes - I live in a place right now
where, when the weather warms up, I could actually use it. But the
cost difference is close to nil, and it's still probably thirty
minutes lost per day ( which really isn't enough time to be good
exercise ). Plus, the cage drivers own the road. I simply can't
get into bicycles beyond a purely utilitarian thing, and I
look like the Michelin Man in spandex.... I did have a lawn mowing
"business" in Junior High, pulling a mower behind a tenspeed. Good
times. Bought a lot of gear that way, good exercise.

But thanks for the kind offer. I really do get a good view of
what people think from here - I'll read something on here weeks
before it bubbles up on TV. I also know that, for bad or for good,
people with guitars have done much to change the world, and a lot
for the better.

You might be able to answer a question for me, though: when somebody
rides a bike for a mile, flat and level, just keeping an even pace
that's highly sustainable ( as in "for transportation purposes" type
pacing) what is the *total* carbon emitted? Counting
back all the way to the beef in the McDonalds he ate, the grain used
to feed the cow, the energy consumed growing that, the truck that
carried all that, all that.

I will bet that a little 100W to 500W gasoline motor that does pedal
assist emits less CO2 than the person pedalling, but it's a big
calculation, and I haven't done it. I thought maybe you had
seen somebody who has. And I will bet than an aircooled engine like
that, so long as the exhaust gas temperature is high enough, could
beat human muscle power for efficiency.

I do not ride a utility bicycle to save gasoline,
nor do I ride loops in the hills for exercise or
recreation. A bicycle is easier to park, the wind
in my face is pleasant, most car drivers are
pleasant, steering a bicycle in traffic is more
fun than steering a car in traffic.



I figure an aesthetic argument is worth about 1000 utilitarian
arguments.

--
Les Cargill