[[email protected]]

Thanks to you guys for suggestions over the past couple of days. I've turned off the auto gain and set the little zoom iq5 mic to the 120degree position and started to experiment with distance as the main variable. If anyone has time or interest to listen, I've documented the results he http://youtu.be/RsjwxJnvPf8

The distance makes huge differences. It would be great to hear which sample (they're numbered) you like best.

Thanks again. The results are already much improved over my first attempts, so thanks again to this great group of audio cats.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:31:42 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Thanks to you guys for suggestions over the past couple of days. I've turned off the auto gain and set the little zoom iq5 mic to the 120degree position and started to experiment with distance as the main variable. If anyone has time or interest to listen, I've documented the results he http://youtu.be/RsjwxJnvPf8

The distance makes huge differences. It would be great to hear which sample (they're numbered) you like best.

Thanks again. The results are already much improved over my first attempts, so thanks again to this great group of audio cats.

No contest - number 4

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[[email protected]]

Don, thanks for the quick response. In impressed that you're that certain of "the best".

[[email protected]]

Don, thanks for the quick response. In impressed that you're that certain of "the best".

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 3/25/2016 12:31 PM, wrote:
Thanks to you guys for suggestions over the past couple of days. I've
turned off the auto gain and set the little zoom iq5 mic to the
120degree position and started to experiment with distance as the
main variable.

The distance makes huge differences. It would be great to hear which
sample (they're numbered) you like best.

I liked a few of them for different reasons. I thought #1 had too much
detail and didn't sound like a whole guitar. #3, #4, and I think #7 had
a better balance across the instrument but the room started to become
noticeable as you pulled away. The ones close to the sound hole sounded
like what comes out of the sound hole. You might try those distant
positions with the M-S angle set for 90 degrees, or, as I suggested
before, set it for each mic to go to its own channel and then just
listen to the mid mic (in mono).


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the feedback Mike. I'll try positioning the mic over my head at some point when I get the iPhone holder clip in a boom stand. Thanks!

[Matt Faunce]

wrote:
Thanks for the feedback Mike. I'll try positioning the mic over my head
at some point when I get the iPhone holder clip in a boom stand. Thanks!


In my experience the lower the atmospheric pressure the less the dynamics
are exaggerated in close miked recordings. Plus, my guitar sounds markedly
better in low pressure. So I always wait for a low pressure day to record.

Low atmospheric pressure and high humidity mostly come together, so it's
hard to isolate the cause of the sound difference. Most guitarists
attribute the difference in sound to a difference in humidity. But when the
barometer is high it doesn't seem to me that humidity from my humidifier
helps the sound very much. So I attribute most of the difference in sound
to the difference in atmospheric pressure.

When I told a violin maker (and my favorite guitar repairman) of my
perception he explained that the transfer of vibrations from the soundboard
to the air pressure waves, and perhaps also the transfer from the air to
the diaphragm of the microphone, is less efficient in low atmospheric
pressure, which causes a more pleasing tone. But that's just a theory.

At first I questioned this theory because I would then expect the sound of
my stereo speakers to be equally affected by the atmospheric pressure, and
they don't seem to be, at least not as much. But then I thought that maybe
the concave shape if the speakers makes for a more efficient transfer than
a flat wooden soundboard. I don't know.

--
Matt

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 19:02:52 -0000 (UTC), Matt Faunce
wrote:

wrote:
Thanks for the feedback Mike. I'll try positioning the mic over my head
at some point when I get the iPhone holder clip in a boom stand. Thanks!


In my experience the lower the atmospheric pressure the less the dynamics
are exaggerated in close miked recordings. Plus, my guitar sounds markedly
better in low pressure. So I always wait for a low pressure day to record.

Low atmospheric pressure and high humidity mostly come together, so it's
hard to isolate the cause of the sound difference. Most guitarists
attribute the difference in sound to a difference in humidity. But when the
barometer is high it doesn't seem to me that humidity from my humidifier
helps the sound very much. So I attribute most of the difference in sound
to the difference in atmospheric pressure.

When I told a violin maker (and my favorite guitar repairman) of my
perception he explained that the transfer of vibrations from the soundboard
to the air pressure waves, and perhaps also the transfer from the air to
the diaphragm of the microphone, is less efficient in low atmospheric
pressure, which causes a more pleasing tone. But that's just a theory.

At first I questioned this theory because I would then expect the sound of
my stereo speakers to be equally affected by the atmospheric pressure, and
they don't seem to be, at least not as much. But then I thought that maybe
the concave shape if the speakers makes for a more efficient transfer than
a flat wooden soundboard. I don't know.

Changes in air pressure of the scale possible in our atmosphere (at a
given altitude) make essentially no difference. Changes in humidity
do. High frequencies travel much better in humid air than in dry, so
instruments will maintain their sparkle at greater distances.

And what your violin maker offered was not a theory - it was a
speculation. Theories carry proof and backup.

d

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[Scott Dorsey]

Matt Faunce wrote:

In my experience the lower the atmospheric pressure the less the dynamics
are exaggerated in close miked recordings. Plus, my guitar sounds markedly
better in low pressure. So I always wait for a low pressure day to record.

Low atmospheric pressure and high humidity mostly come together, so it's
hard to isolate the cause of the sound difference. Most guitarists
attribute the difference in sound to a difference in humidity. But when the
barometer is high it doesn't seem to me that humidity from my humidifier
helps the sound very much. So I attribute most of the difference in sound
to the difference in atmospheric pressure.

I don't know if I buy this.

But, I will say that in Hawaii, The Yamaha C3 sounds thick and full and
the Steinway grands sound dull, whereas in New York the Steinway grands
sound thick and full and the Yamaha sounds thin and clanky. My guess is
the climate has much to do with it (although the technicians setting them
up are also implicated).
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Thanks for listening. I've always known some days are better than others

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 26-03-2016 20:02, Matt Faunce wrote:

In my experience the lower the atmospheric pressure the less the dynamics
are exaggerated in close miked recordings. Plus, my guitar sounds markedly
better in low pressure. So I always wait for a low pressure day to record.

Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one some days the
dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for your
preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference.

Low atmospheric pressure and high humidity mostly come together, so it's
hard to isolate the cause of the sound difference. Most guitarists
attribute the difference in sound to a difference in humidity. But when the
barometer is high it doesn't seem to me that humidity from my humidifier
helps the sound very much. So I attribute most of the difference in sound
to the difference in atmospheric pressure.

When I told a violin maker (and my favorite guitar repairman) of my
perception he explained that the transfer of vibrations from the soundboard
to the air pressure waves, and perhaps also the transfer from the air to
the diaphragm of the microphone, is less efficient in low atmospheric
pressure, which causes a more pleasing tone. But that's just a theory.

At first I questioned this theory because I would then expect the sound of
my stereo speakers to be equally affected by the atmospheric pressure, and
they don't seem to be, at least not as much. But then I thought that maybe
the concave shape if the speakers makes for a more efficient transfer than
a flat wooden soundboard. I don't know.

As Court Acoustics once were quoted for or paraphrased for: a large
loudspeaker system is as stable as a concert grand. And then there is
your sense of hearing, from a science viewpoint it is an undefined
variable. Low pressure conditions may fit your ears better and a high
pressure foehn type weather fits none of the above.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[PStamler]

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote:

Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one some days the
dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for your
preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference.

According to several online references, the speed of sound changes with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric pressure.

Peace,
Paul

[geoff]

On 9/05/2016 4:11 p.m., PStamler wrote:
On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote:

Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one some days the
dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for your
preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference.
According to several online references, the speed of sound changes with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric pressure.

Peace,
Paul

Also relative gravity offset due to position of Sun and Moon ?

geoff

[Trevor]

On 9/05/2016 2:11 PM, PStamler wrote:
On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote:

Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one some days the
dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for your
preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference.

According to several online references, the speed of sound changes with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric pressure.

AFAIK it changes with air density, which is dependent on both pressure
and temperature.

Trevor.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 09-05-2016 05:38, Trevor wrote:

On 9/05/2016 2:11 PM, PStamler wrote:
On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote:

Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one some days the
dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for your
preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference.

According to several online references, the speed of sound changes
with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric
pressure.

AFAIK it changes with air density, which is dependent on both pressure
and temperature.

Thank you. Generalizing to that it changes with density is in my
understanding valid.

Trevor.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 09-05-2016 05:24, geoff wrote:

On 9/05/2016 4:11 p.m., PStamler wrote:
On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote:

Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one some days the
dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for your
preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference.

According to several online references, the speed of sound changes
with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric
pressure.

Paul

Also relative gravity offset due to position of Sun and Moon ?

There is also the one true tuning to consider.

geoff

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 9 May 2016 14:38:37 +1000, Trevor wrote:

On 9/05/2016 2:11 PM, PStamler wrote:
On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote:

Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one some days the
dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for your
preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference.

According to several online references, the speed of sound changes with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric pressure.

AFAIK it changes with air density, which is dependent on both pressure
and temperature.

Trevor.


No, it doesn't change with density, just temperature.
Counterintuitive, but true.

d

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[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 09-05-2016 06:58, Don Pearce wrote:

On Mon, 9 May 2016 14:38:37 +1000, Trevor wrote:

On 9/05/2016 2:11 PM, PStamler wrote:
On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote:

Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one some days the
dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for your
preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference.

According to several online references, the speed of sound changes with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric pressure.

AFAIK it changes with air density, which is dependent on both pressure
and temperature.

Trevor.

No, it doesn't change with density, just temperature.
Counterintuitive, but true.

Extremely interesting, please clarifiy, does the state have to go to
liquid or to solid for it to change?

d

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 9 May 2016 07:17:10 +0100, Peter Larsen
wrote:

On 09-05-2016 06:58, Don Pearce wrote:

On Mon, 9 May 2016 14:38:37 +1000, Trevor wrote:

On 9/05/2016 2:11 PM, PStamler wrote:
On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote:

Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one some days the
dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for your
preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference.

According to several online references, the speed of sound changes with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric pressure.

AFAIK it changes with air density, which is dependent on both pressure
and temperature.

Trevor.

No, it doesn't change with density, just temperature.
Counterintuitive, but true.

Extremely interesting, please clarifiy, does the state have to go to
liquid or to solid for it to change?

Pretty much, yes. The speed of sound in a gas is given by
c= sqrt(k * P / rho)

P is the pressure and rho is the density. At any given temperature
they are proportional to each other so altering one changes the other
by the same amount and the equation remains unchanged.

Changing the temperature will change rho, but not P. That will change
the speed of sound.

K is 1.67 for monatomic molecules, 1.4 for diatomic and 1.33 for
triatomic.

d

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[geoff]

On 9/05/2016 6:26 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
iy, does the state have to go to
liquid or to solid for it to change?

Pretty much, yes. The speed of sound in a gas is given by
c= sqrt(k * P / rho)

P is the pressure and rho is the density. At any given temperature
they are proportional to each other so altering one changes the other
by the same amount and the equation remains unchanged.

Changing the temperature will change rho, but not P. That will change
the speed of sound.

K is 1.67 for monatomic molecules, 1.4 for diatomic and 1.33 for
triatomic.

d


Damn. I'll need to change my miking technique !

geoff

[Frank Stearns]

Trevor writes:

On 9/05/2016 2:11 PM, PStamler wrote: On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM
UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote: Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one
some days the dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for
your preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference. According to several online references, the speed of sound
changes with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric pressure.

AFAIK it changes with air density, which is dependent on both pressure
and temperature.

Long, long ago, I did outdoor PA at a world's fair for six months. Our venue did a
new 30 minute act on the hour every hour from 10:00 am to 10:00 pm. We did split
shifts, I did the evening shows, a friend did the morning shows. On any typical day
we'd see a 30-40 degree temp swing across that time, with perhaps a similar
percentage swing in Rh (mid-high desert, so there could be a fairly large Rh swing
across the day; this is unlike the USA mid-west/East where often the Rh is high and
stays high through the course of a day).

We'd each swear that the other guy was a deaf doofus as we'd see the EQ settings
left over from one evening to the next morning. He was cutting top and adding bottom
(very simple console with only HF and LF controls), and I would wind up with much
the exact opposite.

Then we each had the opportunity to cover for one another, taking a double shift on
those days and working the full 12 hours worth of shows. Sure enough, through the
day, the EQ would creep around to sometimes dramatic extremes as the temp and Rh
changed.

As time went by and I also mixed other shows there with better gear after the fair
had closed but the venue was still in use, I discovered that by far the best sound
was early evening, just after dark, when the Rh went up and the temp had cooled to
some 60-65 degrees. If fact, it often sounded amazing at that time.

But at high noon in the dry heat of the day, things typically sounded awful. (And
poorly conditioned control rooms can have similar issues.)

The state of the air can make a large difference in sonics.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 09 May 2016 08:03:15 -0500, Frank Stearns
wrote:

Trevor writes:

On 9/05/2016 2:11 PM, PStamler wrote: On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM
UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote: Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one
some days the dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for
your preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference. According to several online references, the speed of sound
changes with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric pressure.

AFAIK it changes with air density, which is dependent on both pressure
and temperature.

Long, long ago, I did outdoor PA at a world's fair for six months. Our venue did a
new 30 minute act on the hour every hour from 10:00 am to 10:00 pm. We did split
shifts, I did the evening shows, a friend did the morning shows. On any typical day
we'd see a 30-40 degree temp swing across that time, with perhaps a similar
percentage swing in Rh (mid-high desert, so there could be a fairly large Rh swing
across the day; this is unlike the USA mid-west/East where often the Rh is high and
stays high through the course of a day).

We'd each swear that the other guy was a deaf doofus as we'd see the EQ settings
left over from one evening to the next morning. He was cutting top and adding bottom
(very simple console with only HF and LF controls), and I would wind up with much
the exact opposite.

Then we each had the opportunity to cover for one another, taking a double shift on
those days and working the full 12 hours worth of shows. Sure enough, through the
day, the EQ would creep around to sometimes dramatic extremes as the temp and Rh
changed.

As time went by and I also mixed other shows there with better gear after the fair
had closed but the venue was still in use, I discovered that by far the best sound
was early evening, just after dark, when the Rh went up and the temp had cooled to
some 60-65 degrees. If fact, it often sounded amazing at that time.

But at high noon in the dry heat of the day, things typically sounded awful. (And
poorly conditioned control rooms can have similar issues.)

The state of the air can make a large difference in sonics.

Frank
Mobile Audio

That would be all down to the humidity. Dry air is incredibly dull
sounding, at its worst a little below 20% RH. 10 kHz gets attenuated
by 3dB at about 30 feet range, so you need to put some serious eq into
a recording or sound reinforcement. At a typical open air concert the
audience could be maybe 100 yards from the speakers. At that range
10kHz is down by about 30dB when the RH is so low.

d

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[Gray_Wolf]

On 5/9/2016 8:03 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
Trevor writes:

On 9/05/2016 2:11 PM, PStamler wrote: On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 12:14:03 PM
UTC-5, Peter Larsen wrote: Speed of sound changes with pressure and thus one
some days the dimensions of the instrument may be slightly more suitable for
your preferred intonation. I also think I remember that relative humidity
makes a difference. According to several online references, the speed of sound
changes with temperature and relative humidity, but not with atmospheric pressure.

AFAIK it changes with air density, which is dependent on both pressure
and temperature.

Long, long ago, I did outdoor PA at a world's fair for six months. Our venue did a
new 30 minute act on the hour every hour from 10:00 am to 10:00 pm. We did split
shifts, I did the evening shows, a friend did the morning shows. On any typical day
we'd see a 30-40 degree temp swing across that time, with perhaps a similar
percentage swing in Rh (mid-high desert, so there could be a fairly large Rh swing
across the day; this is unlike the USA mid-west/East where often the Rh is high and
stays high through the course of a day).

We'd each swear that the other guy was a deaf doofus as we'd see the EQ settings
left over from one evening to the next morning. He was cutting top and adding bottom
(very simple console with only HF and LF controls), and I would wind up with much
the exact opposite.

Then we each had the opportunity to cover for one another, taking a double shift on
those days and working the full 12 hours worth of shows. Sure enough, through the
day, the EQ would creep around to sometimes dramatic extremes as the temp and Rh
changed.

As time went by and I also mixed other shows there with better gear after the fair
had closed but the venue was still in use, I discovered that by far the best sound
was early evening, just after dark, when the Rh went up and the temp had cooled to
some 60-65 degrees. If fact, it often sounded amazing at that time.

But at high noon in the dry heat of the day, things typically sounded awful. (And
poorly conditioned control rooms can have similar issues.)


The state of the air can make a large difference in sonics.

Frank
Mobile Audio

Frank, I experienced the same thing in my shop in Nashville.
I had friends that would come by and we'd jam after hours.
It was very noticeable in winter. The heater would cycle between
almost too hot and almost too cold. You'd notice a lot of change
in a very short time. Cooler is better.