[Bernard]

Hi to Everyone,

I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:02:53 +0200, Bernard wrote:

Hi to Everyone,

I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?

There is not a single sound card available today that could possibly
adversely affect the quality of a vinyl recording. They are all,
without exception, orders of magnitude better than any vinyl record.

Are you by any chance trying to plug the pickup straight into the
sound card? If so, you are missing a vital component - the phono
preamplifier & de-emphasis unit. You will need this whatever sort of
sound card you get.

d

[Bernard]

Thanks to Everyone for your input.

At first, I am going to give some details that should have been in my
first post.

My pickyup (turntable) is not being plugged straight into the sound card.
A phono preamplifier is in between.

How poor are my digitilized results ? Well, the first time I listened to
these, I thought they were OK. It surely was nothing professional, but,
thinking of old vinyl records, it was not so bad. So I thought. But then I
decided to test the original vinyl records against the digitalized CDs;
using the same HiFi speakers and amplifier. I found that the difference
was very big, even though it seems a light one at first sight. I don't
know how to describe such a difference, so I will try my best to do so.
With the vinyl, the piano seems to be in the room, its sound is very
pleasurable. Listening the audio CD that I burnt from the digitalized
vinyl source, the difference may seem light at first, but it makes the
difference between something I am looking forward to listen again and
again, and something that I won't care about, even thought is is
supposedly the same thing.

My sound card is included in my mother board ASUS P5LD2 SE. It is a
SoundMax ADI 1986A. My system is not MSWIN, but Linux Debian Sarge on my
desktop, Linux UBUNTU 8.04 (Hardy Heron) on my laptop. If you wish to get
a more precise idea of what I get in digitalizing vinyls, here are a few
links.


http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.wav

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.wav

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.mp3

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.mp3

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.aup

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.aup

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier_data.zip

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second_data.zip
http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.wav

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.wav

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.mp3

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.mp3

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.aup

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.aup

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier_data.zip

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second_data.zip
http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.wav

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.wav

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.mp3

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.mp3

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.aup

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.aup

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier_data.zip

http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second_data.zip

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Bernard

Le Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:08:00 +0000, Don Pearce a écrit*:

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:02:53 +0200, Bernard wrote:

Hi to Everyone,

I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?

There is not a single sound card available today that could possibly
adversely affect the quality of a vinyl recording. They are all, without
exception, orders of magnitude better than any vinyl record.

Are you by any chance trying to plug the pickup straight into the sound
card? If so, you are missing a vital component - the phono preamplifier &
de-emphasis unit. You will need this whatever sort of sound card you get.

d

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:04:56 +0200, Bernard wrote:

My sound card is included in my mother board ASUS P5LD2 SE. It is a
SoundMax ADI 1986A. My system is not MSWIN, but Linux Debian Sarge on my
desktop, Linux UBUNTU 8.04 (Hardy Heron) on my laptop. If you wish to get
a more precise idea of what I get in digitalizing vinyls, here are a few
links.

OK - you have the one exception to the rule there. That's tough luck.
Just about any external sound card will do if this is the job it is
doing, Assuming that you would like it to carry on doing useful work
later. something like the M-Audio Transit would do the job nicely.

d

[Buzz]

"Bernard" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Thanks to Everyone for your input.

Hi to Everyone,

I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?


================================================== ===========

I used to digitilize vinyl records as I have described here :

http://www.a-reny.com/iexplorer/restauration.html

But as time changes, one gets a new computer with an horrible internal
sound card which automatically compresses when recording. (Asus : keep away
from it)

My perfect old sound cards don't fit in the new PCI slots of new computer
motherboards.

So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl"
Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB.
This preamp is an RIAA preamp and works perfect without any hum or noise.

Quite a satisfaction and cheap. (Don't remember the price)

--
Allen RENY
www.a-reny.com

[David Nebenzahl]

On 6/24/2009 9:39 AM Buzz spake thus:

So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl"
Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB.

Should be "moving magnet", no? Not many of us have them expen$ive
moving-coil cartridges.

(And of course MC requires different equalization from MM.)


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

[Serge Auckland[_2_]]

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
On 6/24/2009 9:39 AM Buzz spake thus:

So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl"
Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB.

Should be "moving magnet", no? Not many of us have them expen$ive
moving-coil cartridges.

(And of course MC requires different equalization from MM.)



It doesn't! The equalisation is identical for MM or MCs. The gain needs are
different, as most MCs are significantly lower output than MMs, but there
are plenty of MCs with similar levels of output to MMs.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[Dick Pierce]

On Jun 24, 1:07*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/24/2009 9:39 AM Buzz spake thus:

So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl"
Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB.

Should be "moving magnet", no?

Save the difference in signal level and impedance,
they're the same.

Not many of us have them expen$ive
moving-coil cartridges.

(And of course MC requires different equalization from MM.)

And, of course, it does not. Both are velocity devices,
and the RIAA portion is always there, regardless.

[Geoff]

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/24/2009 9:39 AM Buzz spake thus:

So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl"
Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB.

Should be "moving magnet", no? Not many of us have them expen$ive
moving-coil cartridges.

(And of course MC requires different equalization from MM.)

No it doesn't - the RIAA curve is a factnor of the LP. Nothing to do with
the type of cartridge.

An MC cartridge will require a different sensitivity preamp, or a
transformer.

geoff

[Richard Crowley]

"Don Pearce" wrote ...
Bernard wrote:
I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?

There is not a single sound card available today that could possibly
adversely affect the quality of a vinyl recording. They are all,
without exception, orders of magnitude better than any vinyl record.

Indeed, the specs (and likely real-world performance) in the
areas of frequency response, flatness, distortion, etc. are ever
so much better than any vinyl recording.

However many (most?) internal sound cards, particularly the
ones built into the mother-board, typically suffer from poor
SNR because of the hostile digital hash internal to the computer
case. This is likely the reason for the recommendation for
external ("USB") A/D conversion.

[Mr.T]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
However many (most?) internal sound cards, particularly the
ones built into the mother-board, typically suffer from poor
SNR because of the hostile digital hash internal to the computer
case. This is likely the reason for the recommendation for
external ("USB") A/D conversion.

In fact the best possible performance is from an internal PCI card, just ask
Arny if you want to know which one :-)
BTW, just because some motherboards have bad sound doesn't mean they ALL do.
In general though it is simply a cheap addition as you would expect.
Even a decade old 16 bit SoundBlaster or Audigy will do an adequate job on
vinyl however. And you can pick them up in the trash these days.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a47ef41.902389156@localhost...
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:02:53 +0200, Bernard wrote:
I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?

USB is one option, PCI card or firewire adapters also more than adequate.

There is not a single sound card available today that could possibly
adversely affect the quality of a vinyl recording. They are all,
without exception, orders of magnitude better than any vinyl record.

Pretty close, but there are still a few I wouldn't use.

Are you by any chance trying to plug the pickup straight into the
sound card?

Or maybe he is using the microphone input?

If so, you are missing a vital component - the phono
preamplifier & de-emphasis unit. You will need this whatever sort of
sound card you get.

Nope, some USB boxes designed for the purpose have RIAA EQ built in. Maybe
that's what he is after.

MrT.

[AZ Nomad[_2_]]

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:02:53 +0200, Bernard wrote:
Hi to Everyone,

I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?

How are they poor? noisy? EQ'd and overprocessed like the soundblaster live?

When I digitized my albums, I used an outboard a/d (ackdac) and a sound card
with an s/pdif input.

[Mr.T]

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
How are they poor? noisy? EQ'd and overprocessed like the soundblaster
live?

The soundblaster live doesn't EQ or process at all if you record 16/48 and
resample in software.
It's quite adequate for vinyl, although you can get better for next to
nothing, so I wouldn't personally bother with one these days.

When I digitized my albums, I used an outboard a/d (ackdac) and a sound
card
with an s/pdif input.

Good for you, but the records were still the limiting factor.

MrT.

[AZ Nomad[_2_]]

On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:45:39 +1000, Mr.T MrT@home wrote:

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
How are they poor? noisy? EQ'd and overprocessed like the soundblaster
live?

The soundblaster live doesn't EQ or process at all if you record 16/48 and
resample in software.
It's quite adequate for vinyl, although you can get better for next to
nothing, so I wouldn't personally bother with one these days.

That's not my experience with it. Maybe they rewrote their firmware, but
when I palyed around with them around '01 and '02, they did so much
processing that the sound was little better than an FM radio.
The line input went through no fewer than four mixers and each one
reduced the s/n. Others have documented EQ, compression and resampling
done wether you want it to or not.

[Mr.T]

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
The soundblaster live doesn't EQ or process at all if you record 16/48
and
resample in software.
It's quite adequate for vinyl, although you can get better for next to
nothing, so I wouldn't personally bother with one these days.

That's not my experience with it. Maybe they rewrote their firmware, but
when I palyed around with them around '01 and '02, they did so much
processing that the sound was little better than an FM radio.
The line input went through no fewer than four mixers and each one
reduced the s/n. Others have documented EQ, compression and resampling
done wether you want it to or not.

Sure I've seen similar claims. I have made my own measurements though, and
was quite confident in what the card *I* had could do, especially with
non-factory drivers. There were so many versions however, I can't speak for
them all.
I use a MOTU Ultralite these days though, and an M-Audio card is in another
computer :-)

MrT.

[Arny Krueger]

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:45:39 +1000, Mr.T MrT@home wrote:

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
How are they poor? noisy? EQ'd and overprocessed like the soundblaster
live?

The soundblaster live doesn't EQ or process at all if you record 16/48 and
resample in software.
It's quite adequate for vinyl, although you can get better for next to
nothing, so I wouldn't personally bother with one these days.

That's not my experience with it. Maybe they rewrote their firmware,

They did.

[Arny Krueger]

"Bernard" wrote in message
news
I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?

Since you've given zero specific information, it is hard to make a
meaningful response.

Vinyl doesn't really take a magnificent audio interface to be digitized
well.

If money matters to you, try a Behringer uca 202. About $30 in many music
and pro audio stores.

If you have a little money to spend, try a eMu 0202. Musician's Friend is
selling refurbs for about $80.

If you have a lot of money to spend you could make a nice contribution to a
charity... but otherwise one of the best audio interfaces around is still
the LynxTwo, for about $800.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 6/23/2009 9:52 AM Arny Krueger spake thus:

"Bernard" wrote in message
news
I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?

Since you've given zero specific information, it is hard to make a
meaningful response.

True that. Would be nice to know what kind of sound card gave results
that were "poor in quality".

Vinyl doesn't really take a magnificent audio interface to be digitized
well.

I have to disagree with that sweeping generalization. Without committing
the sin of making another one, all I can say is that I have gotten
results which are close to what I would call "magnificent" running my
turntable through my sound card; the resulting CDs were pretty damn
close to "CD quality".

Results will vary all over the place, of course, depending on the
quality of the vinyl being played, and the equipment being used to play
it. With a good cartridge (a Signet in my case), a decent amplifier, and
probably any modren sound card, good results are possible.

Clicks and pops are easily edited out by hand.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

[Michael Black[_2_]]

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 6/23/2009 9:52 AM Arny Krueger spake thus:

"Bernard" wrote in message
news
I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in
digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are
rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio
interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific
interface for that purpose ?

Since you've given zero specific information, it is hard to make a
meaningful response.

True that. Would be nice to know what kind of sound card gave results that
were "poor in quality".

Vinyl doesn't really take a magnificent audio interface to be digitized
well.

I have to disagree with that sweeping generalization. Without committing the
sin of making another one, all I can say is that I have gotten results which
are close to what I would call "magnificent" running my turntable through my
sound card; the resulting CDs were pretty damn close to "CD quality".

Read what he said again. He said it doesn't take anything particularly
special to do this. And he's right.

The original poster may be having some other issue, like a bad ground (or
a ground loop), or as somone suggested, no phono preamp. So he reads
around, and discovers that some suggest a USB audio card. He shifts
in that direction, not really grasping what's being said, so he comes
here looking for details based on that premise. But he didn't read
far enough along to know that the reason some might suggest a USB card
is not because "they are better" but because it gets the analog circuitry
away from the noisy computer, which may be a factor in some cases.

Or he may be mislaid by those USB turntables, that are a mere convenience.
Someone without a turntable has to buy one, so they might as well get one
that has a built in phono preamp, and then the electronics to digitize
the sound into a USB signal. Of course, those are what you pay for them,
and I just saw one locally for a hundred dollars which isn't going to beat
my 30 year old Lenco turntable with a Grado cartridge, going through some
stereo receiver for the phono preamp and then into whatever sound card
I have in my computer.

Michael

Results will vary all over the place, of course, depending on the quality of
the vinyl being played, and the equipment being used to play it. With a good
cartridge (a Signet in my case), a decent amplifier, and probably any modren
sound card, good results are possible.

Clicks and pops are easily edited out by hand.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

[Mr.T]

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
Vinyl doesn't really take a magnificent audio interface to be digitized
well.

I have to disagree with that sweeping generalization. Without committing
the sin of making another one, all I can say is that I have gotten
results which are close to what I would call "magnificent" running my
turntable through my sound card; the resulting CDs were pretty damn
close to "CD quality".

Results will vary all over the place, of course, depending on the
quality of the vinyl being played, and the equipment being used to play
it. With a good cartridge (a Signet in my case), a decent amplifier, and
probably any modren sound card, good results are possible.

You are actually in agreement. The Turntable, cartridge and especially
record quality and cleanliness will matter *FAR* more than the soundcard
these days.

While a $20 soundcard will do the job, how many people buy a decent
turntable & record cleaning machine that will have FAR more effect on the
final result IME? Unfortunately they have a *FAR* higher price tag as well!

MrT.

[Dick Pierce]

On Jun 23, 11:02*am, Bernard wrote:
Hi to Everyone,

I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give
good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original
sound card give results that are rather poor in quality.

If you are going directly from the turntable output to
your sound card input, you're almost guaranteed
to have poor quality results. You'll have poor bass,
screechy highs, probably low levels and lots of
noise.

That's because none of the inputs on pretty much
ANY soundcard are not designed to properly handle
the output of a tunrtable.

Instead, you need to have an intermediate piece
of equipment which provides all of the functions
of a phono preamp, including matching, gain and
proper equalization. You could use an existing
receiver, preamplifier or integrated amplifier with
a phone input and connect the tap outputs to
your sound card. You could also go out and
buy a dedicated phono preamp for as little as
%50 to as high as one's insanity might allow
one to pay for such a device.

Once you have that in hand, you'll need to spend
a little time playing with gains to optimize the
signal levels, but from there you're good to go.

I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb
audio interface.

A USB audio interface will do the job, but it is not
necessary. A good sound card will be equally as
useful.

Could someone tell of his/her own experience
on a specific interface for that purpose ?

There is no "specific" interface for the job.
You need a good quality turntable, a good quality
phono preamp or system with a phono preamp,
and you need a good-quality sound card or external
analog-to-digotal converter to get the recording in
to your computer.

Many modern-day computers have quite audio
inputs amd ,ay well be more than up to the
task, given the rest of the equipment needed
above, so you may not need an external USB
(or fire-wire or whatever). That being said, I have
two laptops he one is an IBM Thinkpad T22, the
other is a newer Thinkpad T42. The audio converters,
from the standpoint of input-output response, are
much better in the older T22 than in the newer T42!
Figure that out.

[Mr.T]

"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
...
That being said, I have
two laptops he one is an IBM Thinkpad T22, the
other is a newer Thinkpad T42. The audio converters,
from the standpoint of input-output response, are
much better in the older T22 than in the newer T42!

But I'd be surprised if you bothered using either of them to record
anything! :-)

MrT.