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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
I'm preparing to build an enclosure for the Adire Tempest driver using
Adire's plans called the "Adire Alignment". This will be a 7.56 cu ft box with two 3" diameter ports. The sub is downfiring. I have all the plans and needed wood measurements, however, I have concern about how to stuff the recommended 4 lbs of polyfill. By filling the entire encolsure evenly with 4 lbs of polyfill, I'm concerned that there is some risk that the polyfill will settle around the back of the driver or into the port tubes. Any suggestions about how to prevent this? Could I use some type of screen material or perhaps an additional brace (with numberous holes) placed above the subwoofer? Thanks, bsguidry |
#3
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On 19 Dec 2003 08:56:18 -0800, (bsguidry) wrote:
I'm preparing to build an enclosure for the Adire Tempest driver using Adire's plans called the "Adire Alignment". This will be a 7.56 cu ft box with two 3" diameter ports. The sub is downfiring. I have all the plans and needed wood measurements, however, I have concern about how to stuff the recommended 4 lbs of polyfill. By filling the entire encolsure evenly with 4 lbs of polyfill, I'm concerned that there is some risk that the polyfill will settle around the back of the driver or into the port tubes. Any suggestions about how to prevent this? Could I use some type of screen material or perhaps an additional brace (with numberous holes) placed above the subwoofer? Thanks, bsguidry Stretch cords across the inside of the cabinet and weave the polyfill through them. d _____________________________ http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On 19 Dec 2003 08:56:18 -0800, (bsguidry) wrote:
I'm preparing to build an enclosure for the Adire Tempest driver using Adire's plans called the "Adire Alignment". This will be a 7.56 cu ft box with two 3" diameter ports. The sub is downfiring. I have all the plans and needed wood measurements, however, I have concern about how to stuff the recommended 4 lbs of polyfill. By filling the entire encolsure evenly with 4 lbs of polyfill, I'm concerned that there is some risk that the polyfill will settle around the back of the driver or into the port tubes. Any suggestions about how to prevent this? Could I use some type of screen material or perhaps an additional brace (with numberous holes) placed above the subwoofer? Thanks, bsguidry Stretch cords across the inside of the cabinet and weave the polyfill through them. d _____________________________ http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
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#8
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : PolyfillConcerns
bsguidry wrote:
I'm preparing to build an enclosure for the Adire Tempest driver using Adire's plans called the "Adire Alignment". This will be a 7.56 cu ft box with two 3" diameter ports. The sub is downfiring. Redesign the box for vertical placement of the loudspeaker. You will like having done this in 10 years. Just my opinion, ymmv. I have all the plans and needed wood measurements, however, I have concern about how to stuff the recommended 4 lbs of polyfill. By filling the entire encolsure evenly with 4 lbs of polyfill, I'm concerned that there is some risk that the polyfill will settle around the back of the driver or into the port tubes. Any suggestions about how to prevent this? Could I use some type of screen material or perhaps an additional brace (with numberous holes) placed above the subwoofer? Gregs suggestion on how to keep the polyfill in place will still apply. bsguidry Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ************************************************** *********** * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ************************************************** *********** |
#9
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : PolyfillConcerns
bsguidry wrote:
I'm preparing to build an enclosure for the Adire Tempest driver using Adire's plans called the "Adire Alignment". This will be a 7.56 cu ft box with two 3" diameter ports. The sub is downfiring. Redesign the box for vertical placement of the loudspeaker. You will like having done this in 10 years. Just my opinion, ymmv. I have all the plans and needed wood measurements, however, I have concern about how to stuff the recommended 4 lbs of polyfill. By filling the entire encolsure evenly with 4 lbs of polyfill, I'm concerned that there is some risk that the polyfill will settle around the back of the driver or into the port tubes. Any suggestions about how to prevent this? Could I use some type of screen material or perhaps an additional brace (with numberous holes) placed above the subwoofer? Gregs suggestion on how to keep the polyfill in place will still apply. bsguidry Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ************************************************** *********** * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ************************************************** *********** |
#10
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : PolyfillConcerns
bsguidry wrote:
I'm preparing to build an enclosure for the Adire Tempest driver using Adire's plans called the "Adire Alignment". This will be a 7.56 cu ft box with two 3" diameter ports. The sub is downfiring. Redesign the box for vertical placement of the loudspeaker. You will like having done this in 10 years. Just my opinion, ymmv. I have all the plans and needed wood measurements, however, I have concern about how to stuff the recommended 4 lbs of polyfill. By filling the entire encolsure evenly with 4 lbs of polyfill, I'm concerned that there is some risk that the polyfill will settle around the back of the driver or into the port tubes. Any suggestions about how to prevent this? Could I use some type of screen material or perhaps an additional brace (with numberous holes) placed above the subwoofer? Gregs suggestion on how to keep the polyfill in place will still apply. bsguidry Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ************************************************** *********** * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ************************************************** *********** |
#11
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
Peter Larsen wrote in message ...
bsguidry wrote: I'm preparing to build an enclosure for the Adire Tempest driver using Adire's plans called the "Adire Alignment". This will be a 7.56 cu ft box with two 3" diameter ports. The sub is downfiring. Redesign the box for vertical placement of the loudspeaker. You will like having done this in 10 years. Just my opinion, ymmv. I have all the plans and needed wood measurements, however, I have concern about how to stuff the recommended 4 lbs of polyfill. By filling the entire encolsure evenly with 4 lbs of polyfill, I'm concerned that there is some risk that the polyfill will settle around the back of the driver or into the port tubes. Any suggestions about how to prevent this? Could I use some type of screen material or perhaps an additional brace (with numberous holes) placed above the subwoofer? Gregs suggestion on how to keep the polyfill in place will still apply. bsguidry Kind regards Peter Larsen Thanks to all who have responded. I believe I will use a combination of sticking the polyfill to the sides and perhaps using cords or twine as a net above the driver and ports. As far as mounting the driver for a vertical alignment, I'd like to know more why I'd appreciate this design in 10 years. Unfortunately, I have two toddlers who haven't learned to keep out of my electronics. Having the sub mounted underneath would offer a bit more protection than if it were side mounted. bsguidry |
#12
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
Peter Larsen wrote in message ...
bsguidry wrote: I'm preparing to build an enclosure for the Adire Tempest driver using Adire's plans called the "Adire Alignment". This will be a 7.56 cu ft box with two 3" diameter ports. The sub is downfiring. Redesign the box for vertical placement of the loudspeaker. You will like having done this in 10 years. Just my opinion, ymmv. I have all the plans and needed wood measurements, however, I have concern about how to stuff the recommended 4 lbs of polyfill. By filling the entire encolsure evenly with 4 lbs of polyfill, I'm concerned that there is some risk that the polyfill will settle around the back of the driver or into the port tubes. Any suggestions about how to prevent this? Could I use some type of screen material or perhaps an additional brace (with numberous holes) placed above the subwoofer? Gregs suggestion on how to keep the polyfill in place will still apply. bsguidry Kind regards Peter Larsen Thanks to all who have responded. I believe I will use a combination of sticking the polyfill to the sides and perhaps using cords or twine as a net above the driver and ports. As far as mounting the driver for a vertical alignment, I'd like to know more why I'd appreciate this design in 10 years. Unfortunately, I have two toddlers who haven't learned to keep out of my electronics. Having the sub mounted underneath would offer a bit more protection than if it were side mounted. bsguidry |
#13
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
Peter Larsen wrote in message ...
bsguidry wrote: I'm preparing to build an enclosure for the Adire Tempest driver using Adire's plans called the "Adire Alignment". This will be a 7.56 cu ft box with two 3" diameter ports. The sub is downfiring. Redesign the box for vertical placement of the loudspeaker. You will like having done this in 10 years. Just my opinion, ymmv. I have all the plans and needed wood measurements, however, I have concern about how to stuff the recommended 4 lbs of polyfill. By filling the entire encolsure evenly with 4 lbs of polyfill, I'm concerned that there is some risk that the polyfill will settle around the back of the driver or into the port tubes. Any suggestions about how to prevent this? Could I use some type of screen material or perhaps an additional brace (with numberous holes) placed above the subwoofer? Gregs suggestion on how to keep the polyfill in place will still apply. bsguidry Kind regards Peter Larsen Thanks to all who have responded. I believe I will use a combination of sticking the polyfill to the sides and perhaps using cords or twine as a net above the driver and ports. As far as mounting the driver for a vertical alignment, I'd like to know more why I'd appreciate this design in 10 years. Unfortunately, I have two toddlers who haven't learned to keep out of my electronics. Having the sub mounted underneath would offer a bit more protection than if it were side mounted. bsguidry |
#14
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : PolyfillConcerns
bsguidry wrote:
As far as mounting the driver for a vertical alignment, I'd like to know more why I'd appreciate this design in 10 years. Gravity will eventually cause the loudspeaker unit to leave its correct rest position. This is not something that happens fast, but eventually it will happen. Unfortunately, I have two toddlers who haven't learned to keep out of my electronics. Aha ... Having the sub mounted underneath would offer a bit more protection than if it were side mounted. Indeed. Design sure never is simple .... and even if a metal screen is used, then the spilled beverage and icecream risk remains. I would try to find a solution with a hidden loudspeaker unit, but then it becomes a total redesign. One way of getting the loudspeaker unit hidden is to go for a bandpass reflex box with a front chamber instead. But you already appear to have a lock on the target ... or do you? http://www.tachyon.co.jp may be an interesting passtime if you want to look for possible solutions that may be somewhat beyond your initial aim. The also have a subsite for WE555 Replacement Diaphragm ... just as an a pro pos to a thread in this forum some weeks ago. bsguidry Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ************************************************** *********** * \\\\\\\ Quality Ascii handcrafted by Peter Larsen /////// * * \\\\\\\ My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk /////// * ************************************************** *********** |
#15
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : PolyfillConcerns
bsguidry wrote:
As far as mounting the driver for a vertical alignment, I'd like to know more why I'd appreciate this design in 10 years. Gravity will eventually cause the loudspeaker unit to leave its correct rest position. This is not something that happens fast, but eventually it will happen. Unfortunately, I have two toddlers who haven't learned to keep out of my electronics. Aha ... Having the sub mounted underneath would offer a bit more protection than if it were side mounted. Indeed. Design sure never is simple .... and even if a metal screen is used, then the spilled beverage and icecream risk remains. I would try to find a solution with a hidden loudspeaker unit, but then it becomes a total redesign. One way of getting the loudspeaker unit hidden is to go for a bandpass reflex box with a front chamber instead. But you already appear to have a lock on the target ... or do you? http://www.tachyon.co.jp may be an interesting passtime if you want to look for possible solutions that may be somewhat beyond your initial aim. The also have a subsite for WE555 Replacement Diaphragm ... just as an a pro pos to a thread in this forum some weeks ago. bsguidry Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ************************************************** *********** * \\\\\\\ Quality Ascii handcrafted by Peter Larsen /////// * * \\\\\\\ My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk /////// * ************************************************** *********** |
#16
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : PolyfillConcerns
bsguidry wrote:
As far as mounting the driver for a vertical alignment, I'd like to know more why I'd appreciate this design in 10 years. Gravity will eventually cause the loudspeaker unit to leave its correct rest position. This is not something that happens fast, but eventually it will happen. Unfortunately, I have two toddlers who haven't learned to keep out of my electronics. Aha ... Having the sub mounted underneath would offer a bit more protection than if it were side mounted. Indeed. Design sure never is simple .... and even if a metal screen is used, then the spilled beverage and icecream risk remains. I would try to find a solution with a hidden loudspeaker unit, but then it becomes a total redesign. One way of getting the loudspeaker unit hidden is to go for a bandpass reflex box with a front chamber instead. But you already appear to have a lock on the target ... or do you? http://www.tachyon.co.jp may be an interesting passtime if you want to look for possible solutions that may be somewhat beyond your initial aim. The also have a subsite for WE555 Replacement Diaphragm ... just as an a pro pos to a thread in this forum some weeks ago. bsguidry Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ************************************************** *********** * \\\\\\\ Quality Ascii handcrafted by Peter Larsen /////// * * \\\\\\\ My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk /////// * ************************************************** *********** |
#17
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
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#20
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
This is off topic but you might want to consider an infinite
baffle arrangement. It's inexpensive and easy to construct arrangement that yields incredibly clean, low distortion, very deep bass at unbelievable SPL. Certainly the cleanest and loudest bass I've ever heard. With multiple (hidden) drivers you can literally achieve house damaging levels with a flat response from below 10Hz to well above 100Hz...at a fraction of the cost of a comparable box sub. All this without a monster amplifier and no big ugly box in the corner (and no polyfill concerns). I usually recommend four high excursion 15" drivers (Stryke AV15 is the current performance/dollar leader but the older Adire Tempest and Dayton 15" drivers compete well). For $1k total (drivers, amp, construction materials) you can blow windows out of their frames without the drivers breaking a sweat (i.e. still within linear Xmax). IB maximizes Hoffman's Iron Law. Hoffman's Iron Law states that the efficiency of a woofer system is directly proportional to its cabinet volume and the cube of its cutoff frequency (the lowest frequency it can usefully reproduce). With any box sub there is a tradeoff between efficiency, volume, and low frequency response. With IB the volume is 'infinite' which maximizes the efficiency and cutoff to simply the properties of the bare driver. It doesn't get any better. Power compression/distortion isn't an issue like a box sub and you only need a relatively tiny amp. FAQ: https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/ Gallery pictures pages 1 and 2 with construction links https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page2IB-Gallery.html https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page3IB-Gallery2.html Forum http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ IB: no box, no box-like sound |
#21
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
This is off topic but you might want to consider an infinite
baffle arrangement. It's inexpensive and easy to construct arrangement that yields incredibly clean, low distortion, very deep bass at unbelievable SPL. Certainly the cleanest and loudest bass I've ever heard. With multiple (hidden) drivers you can literally achieve house damaging levels with a flat response from below 10Hz to well above 100Hz...at a fraction of the cost of a comparable box sub. All this without a monster amplifier and no big ugly box in the corner (and no polyfill concerns). I usually recommend four high excursion 15" drivers (Stryke AV15 is the current performance/dollar leader but the older Adire Tempest and Dayton 15" drivers compete well). For $1k total (drivers, amp, construction materials) you can blow windows out of their frames without the drivers breaking a sweat (i.e. still within linear Xmax). IB maximizes Hoffman's Iron Law. Hoffman's Iron Law states that the efficiency of a woofer system is directly proportional to its cabinet volume and the cube of its cutoff frequency (the lowest frequency it can usefully reproduce). With any box sub there is a tradeoff between efficiency, volume, and low frequency response. With IB the volume is 'infinite' which maximizes the efficiency and cutoff to simply the properties of the bare driver. It doesn't get any better. Power compression/distortion isn't an issue like a box sub and you only need a relatively tiny amp. FAQ: https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/ Gallery pictures pages 1 and 2 with construction links https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page2IB-Gallery.html https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page3IB-Gallery2.html Forum http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ IB: no box, no box-like sound |
#22
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
This is off topic but you might want to consider an infinite
baffle arrangement. It's inexpensive and easy to construct arrangement that yields incredibly clean, low distortion, very deep bass at unbelievable SPL. Certainly the cleanest and loudest bass I've ever heard. With multiple (hidden) drivers you can literally achieve house damaging levels with a flat response from below 10Hz to well above 100Hz...at a fraction of the cost of a comparable box sub. All this without a monster amplifier and no big ugly box in the corner (and no polyfill concerns). I usually recommend four high excursion 15" drivers (Stryke AV15 is the current performance/dollar leader but the older Adire Tempest and Dayton 15" drivers compete well). For $1k total (drivers, amp, construction materials) you can blow windows out of their frames without the drivers breaking a sweat (i.e. still within linear Xmax). IB maximizes Hoffman's Iron Law. Hoffman's Iron Law states that the efficiency of a woofer system is directly proportional to its cabinet volume and the cube of its cutoff frequency (the lowest frequency it can usefully reproduce). With any box sub there is a tradeoff between efficiency, volume, and low frequency response. With IB the volume is 'infinite' which maximizes the efficiency and cutoff to simply the properties of the bare driver. It doesn't get any better. Power compression/distortion isn't an issue like a box sub and you only need a relatively tiny amp. FAQ: https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/ Gallery pictures pages 1 and 2 with construction links https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page2IB-Gallery.html https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page3IB-Gallery2.html Forum http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ IB: no box, no box-like sound |
#23
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
"Rusty Boudreaux" wrote in message ...
This is off topic but you might want to consider an infinite baffle arrangement. It's inexpensive and easy to construct arrangement that yields incredibly clean, low distortion, very deep bass at unbelievable SPL. Certainly the cleanest and loudest bass I've ever heard. With multiple (hidden) drivers you can literally achieve house damaging levels with a flat response from below 10Hz to well above 100Hz...at a fraction of the cost of a comparable box sub. All this without a monster amplifier and no big ugly box in the corner (and no polyfill concerns). I usually recommend four high excursion 15" drivers (Stryke AV15 is the current performance/dollar leader but the older Adire Tempest and Dayton 15" drivers compete well). For $1k total (drivers, amp, construction materials) you can blow windows out of their frames without the drivers breaking a sweat (i.e. still within linear Xmax). IB maximizes Hoffman's Iron Law. Hoffman's Iron Law states that the efficiency of a woofer system is directly proportional to its cabinet volume and the cube of its cutoff frequency (the lowest frequency it can usefully reproduce). With any box sub there is a tradeoff between efficiency, volume, and low frequency response. With IB the volume is 'infinite' which maximizes the efficiency and cutoff to simply the properties of the bare driver. It doesn't get any better. Power compression/distortion isn't an issue like a box sub and you only need a relatively tiny amp. FAQ: https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/ Gallery pictures pages 1 and 2 with construction links https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page2IB-Gallery.html https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page3IB-Gallery2.html Forum http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ IB: no box, no box-like sound I wish I had investigated Infinite Baffles further prior to beginning. I hadn't envisioned doing an infinite baffle in what appears to be the standard approach on the websites above. It definitely would lead to simpler carpentry and no huge boxes in the room. I may move to this in the near future. I've already begun work on the 214L box for the Tempest. The wood is all cut and much of it assembled. I'll go from there. One question about port tubes. When using flared port kits, measurements are given for the center tube length. In the case of the Tempest plans it indicates a center tube length of 11". I'm assuming this is the actual length of the center tube piece before the flared ends are attached. The flared ends slip over the center tube so measuring it afterwards would be about 10.5". bsguidry |
#24
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
"Rusty Boudreaux" wrote in message ...
This is off topic but you might want to consider an infinite baffle arrangement. It's inexpensive and easy to construct arrangement that yields incredibly clean, low distortion, very deep bass at unbelievable SPL. Certainly the cleanest and loudest bass I've ever heard. With multiple (hidden) drivers you can literally achieve house damaging levels with a flat response from below 10Hz to well above 100Hz...at a fraction of the cost of a comparable box sub. All this without a monster amplifier and no big ugly box in the corner (and no polyfill concerns). I usually recommend four high excursion 15" drivers (Stryke AV15 is the current performance/dollar leader but the older Adire Tempest and Dayton 15" drivers compete well). For $1k total (drivers, amp, construction materials) you can blow windows out of their frames without the drivers breaking a sweat (i.e. still within linear Xmax). IB maximizes Hoffman's Iron Law. Hoffman's Iron Law states that the efficiency of a woofer system is directly proportional to its cabinet volume and the cube of its cutoff frequency (the lowest frequency it can usefully reproduce). With any box sub there is a tradeoff between efficiency, volume, and low frequency response. With IB the volume is 'infinite' which maximizes the efficiency and cutoff to simply the properties of the bare driver. It doesn't get any better. Power compression/distortion isn't an issue like a box sub and you only need a relatively tiny amp. FAQ: https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/ Gallery pictures pages 1 and 2 with construction links https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page2IB-Gallery.html https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page3IB-Gallery2.html Forum http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ IB: no box, no box-like sound I wish I had investigated Infinite Baffles further prior to beginning. I hadn't envisioned doing an infinite baffle in what appears to be the standard approach on the websites above. It definitely would lead to simpler carpentry and no huge boxes in the room. I may move to this in the near future. I've already begun work on the 214L box for the Tempest. The wood is all cut and much of it assembled. I'll go from there. One question about port tubes. When using flared port kits, measurements are given for the center tube length. In the case of the Tempest plans it indicates a center tube length of 11". I'm assuming this is the actual length of the center tube piece before the flared ends are attached. The flared ends slip over the center tube so measuring it afterwards would be about 10.5". bsguidry |
#25
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
"Rusty Boudreaux" wrote in message ...
This is off topic but you might want to consider an infinite baffle arrangement. It's inexpensive and easy to construct arrangement that yields incredibly clean, low distortion, very deep bass at unbelievable SPL. Certainly the cleanest and loudest bass I've ever heard. With multiple (hidden) drivers you can literally achieve house damaging levels with a flat response from below 10Hz to well above 100Hz...at a fraction of the cost of a comparable box sub. All this without a monster amplifier and no big ugly box in the corner (and no polyfill concerns). I usually recommend four high excursion 15" drivers (Stryke AV15 is the current performance/dollar leader but the older Adire Tempest and Dayton 15" drivers compete well). For $1k total (drivers, amp, construction materials) you can blow windows out of their frames without the drivers breaking a sweat (i.e. still within linear Xmax). IB maximizes Hoffman's Iron Law. Hoffman's Iron Law states that the efficiency of a woofer system is directly proportional to its cabinet volume and the cube of its cutoff frequency (the lowest frequency it can usefully reproduce). With any box sub there is a tradeoff between efficiency, volume, and low frequency response. With IB the volume is 'infinite' which maximizes the efficiency and cutoff to simply the properties of the bare driver. It doesn't get any better. Power compression/distortion isn't an issue like a box sub and you only need a relatively tiny amp. FAQ: https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/ Gallery pictures pages 1 and 2 with construction links https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page2IB-Gallery.html https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page3IB-Gallery2.html Forum http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ IB: no box, no box-like sound I wish I had investigated Infinite Baffles further prior to beginning. I hadn't envisioned doing an infinite baffle in what appears to be the standard approach on the websites above. It definitely would lead to simpler carpentry and no huge boxes in the room. I may move to this in the near future. I've already begun work on the 214L box for the Tempest. The wood is all cut and much of it assembled. I'll go from there. One question about port tubes. When using flared port kits, measurements are given for the center tube length. In the case of the Tempest plans it indicates a center tube length of 11". I'm assuming this is the actual length of the center tube piece before the flared ends are attached. The flared ends slip over the center tube so measuring it afterwards would be about 10.5". bsguidry |
#26
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 04:39:04 -0600, "Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote: With any box sub there is a tradeoff between efficiency, volume, and low frequency response. With IB the volume is 'infinite' which maximizes the efficiency and cutoff to simply the properties of the bare driver. It doesn't get any better. Power compression/distortion isn't an issue like a box sub and you only need a relatively tiny amp. FAQ: https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/ Gallery pictures pages 1 and 2 with construction links https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page2IB-Gallery.html https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page3IB-Gallery2.html Forum http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ IB: no box, no box-like sound OTOH, your ceiling will rattle like crazy.......... BTW, if using an open baffle, watch out that you don't rip the suspension loose at low frequencies, when you can easily drive *way* beyond Xmax! Note that most of the ultra-long throw drivers are intended for use in a relatively small sealed boxes, with heavy EQ and big amps. Go to the Linkwitz Lab website, and run the numbers through for large box volumes - you get Xmax limiting at low frequencies with very low power. BTW, I'm in a similar situation to you, I have a large loft space above my listening room, but I'm going with a pair of Tempests in a 200 litre sealed box, driven by a 500 watt amp. This works pretty well, Xmax limited from 30 Hz down so achieving maximum possible SPL, but without much spare power to overload the driver. Should give a clean 120 dB in-room from 20 Hz up. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#27
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 04:39:04 -0600, "Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote: With any box sub there is a tradeoff between efficiency, volume, and low frequency response. With IB the volume is 'infinite' which maximizes the efficiency and cutoff to simply the properties of the bare driver. It doesn't get any better. Power compression/distortion isn't an issue like a box sub and you only need a relatively tiny amp. FAQ: https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/ Gallery pictures pages 1 and 2 with construction links https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page2IB-Gallery.html https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page3IB-Gallery2.html Forum http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ IB: no box, no box-like sound OTOH, your ceiling will rattle like crazy.......... BTW, if using an open baffle, watch out that you don't rip the suspension loose at low frequencies, when you can easily drive *way* beyond Xmax! Note that most of the ultra-long throw drivers are intended for use in a relatively small sealed boxes, with heavy EQ and big amps. Go to the Linkwitz Lab website, and run the numbers through for large box volumes - you get Xmax limiting at low frequencies with very low power. BTW, I'm in a similar situation to you, I have a large loft space above my listening room, but I'm going with a pair of Tempests in a 200 litre sealed box, driven by a 500 watt amp. This works pretty well, Xmax limited from 30 Hz down so achieving maximum possible SPL, but without much spare power to overload the driver. Should give a clean 120 dB in-room from 20 Hz up. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 04:39:04 -0600, "Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote: With any box sub there is a tradeoff between efficiency, volume, and low frequency response. With IB the volume is 'infinite' which maximizes the efficiency and cutoff to simply the properties of the bare driver. It doesn't get any better. Power compression/distortion isn't an issue like a box sub and you only need a relatively tiny amp. FAQ: https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/ Gallery pictures pages 1 and 2 with construction links https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page2IB-Gallery.html https://home.comcast.net/~ttriff//page3IB-Gallery2.html Forum http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/ IB: no box, no box-like sound OTOH, your ceiling will rattle like crazy.......... BTW, if using an open baffle, watch out that you don't rip the suspension loose at low frequencies, when you can easily drive *way* beyond Xmax! Note that most of the ultra-long throw drivers are intended for use in a relatively small sealed boxes, with heavy EQ and big amps. Go to the Linkwitz Lab website, and run the numbers through for large box volumes - you get Xmax limiting at low frequencies with very low power. BTW, I'm in a similar situation to you, I have a large loft space above my listening room, but I'm going with a pair of Tempests in a 200 litre sealed box, driven by a 500 watt amp. This works pretty well, Xmax limited from 30 Hz down so achieving maximum possible SPL, but without much spare power to overload the driver. Should give a clean 120 dB in-room from 20 Hz up. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... OTOH, your ceiling will rattle like crazy.......... If you use a manifold with opposing drivers it won't be any worse than a box sub at the same SPL. Rattling, shaking, etc will be solely from acoustic coupling. BTW, if using an open baffle, watch out that you don't rip the suspension loose at low frequencies, when you can easily drive *way* beyond Xmax! Note that most of the ultra-long throw drivers are Sure but that's the beauty of an IB. Driving to Xmax yields the maximum output regardless of alignment. For an IB you don't need a monster amp to get to Xmax. Four AV15's will get you nearly 100dB at 5Hz within Xmax and around 120dB by 15Hz or so. Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. With four drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. above my listening room, but I'm going with a pair of Tempests in a 200 litre sealed box, driven by a 500 watt amp. This works pretty Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... OTOH, your ceiling will rattle like crazy.......... If you use a manifold with opposing drivers it won't be any worse than a box sub at the same SPL. Rattling, shaking, etc will be solely from acoustic coupling. BTW, if using an open baffle, watch out that you don't rip the suspension loose at low frequencies, when you can easily drive *way* beyond Xmax! Note that most of the ultra-long throw drivers are Sure but that's the beauty of an IB. Driving to Xmax yields the maximum output regardless of alignment. For an IB you don't need a monster amp to get to Xmax. Four AV15's will get you nearly 100dB at 5Hz within Xmax and around 120dB by 15Hz or so. Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. With four drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. above my listening room, but I'm going with a pair of Tempests in a 200 litre sealed box, driven by a 500 watt amp. This works pretty Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... OTOH, your ceiling will rattle like crazy.......... If you use a manifold with opposing drivers it won't be any worse than a box sub at the same SPL. Rattling, shaking, etc will be solely from acoustic coupling. BTW, if using an open baffle, watch out that you don't rip the suspension loose at low frequencies, when you can easily drive *way* beyond Xmax! Note that most of the ultra-long throw drivers are Sure but that's the beauty of an IB. Driving to Xmax yields the maximum output regardless of alignment. For an IB you don't need a monster amp to get to Xmax. Four AV15's will get you nearly 100dB at 5Hz within Xmax and around 120dB by 15Hz or so. Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. With four drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. above my listening room, but I'm going with a pair of Tempests in a 200 litre sealed box, driven by a 500 watt amp. This works pretty Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:21:52 -0600, "Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... OTOH, your ceiling will rattle like crazy.......... If you use a manifold with opposing drivers it won't be any worse than a box sub at the same SPL. Rattling, shaking, etc will be solely from acoustic coupling. Well, unless you have the box on springs, it will also be due to mechanical coupling. IME, ceilings are not so strongly built as floors! Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. Yup - that was my point. You can certainly do this with an IB, and I doubt that it does the components much good! :-) With four drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. Or you can just use the correct size of sealed box and avoid the problem altogether........ above my listening room, but I'm going with a pair of Tempests in a 200 litre sealed box, driven by a 500 watt amp. This works pretty Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). Unfortunately, I have to use what's available in the UK, which doesn't include the Stryke AV15 - and I can't afford a pair of Tumults! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:21:52 -0600, "Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... OTOH, your ceiling will rattle like crazy.......... If you use a manifold with opposing drivers it won't be any worse than a box sub at the same SPL. Rattling, shaking, etc will be solely from acoustic coupling. Well, unless you have the box on springs, it will also be due to mechanical coupling. IME, ceilings are not so strongly built as floors! Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. Yup - that was my point. You can certainly do this with an IB, and I doubt that it does the components much good! :-) With four drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. Or you can just use the correct size of sealed box and avoid the problem altogether........ above my listening room, but I'm going with a pair of Tempests in a 200 litre sealed box, driven by a 500 watt amp. This works pretty Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). Unfortunately, I have to use what's available in the UK, which doesn't include the Stryke AV15 - and I can't afford a pair of Tumults! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:21:52 -0600, "Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... OTOH, your ceiling will rattle like crazy.......... If you use a manifold with opposing drivers it won't be any worse than a box sub at the same SPL. Rattling, shaking, etc will be solely from acoustic coupling. Well, unless you have the box on springs, it will also be due to mechanical coupling. IME, ceilings are not so strongly built as floors! Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. Yup - that was my point. You can certainly do this with an IB, and I doubt that it does the components much good! :-) With four drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. Or you can just use the correct size of sealed box and avoid the problem altogether........ above my listening room, but I'm going with a pair of Tempests in a 200 litre sealed box, driven by a 500 watt amp. This works pretty Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). Unfortunately, I have to use what's available in the UK, which doesn't include the Stryke AV15 - and I can't afford a pair of Tumults! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... Well, unless you have the box on springs, it will also be due to mechanical coupling. IME, ceilings are not so strongly built as floors! Not so. With identical opposing drivers the mechanical forces cancel. It's not like a box sub trying to walk it's way across the floor. Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. Yup - that was my point. You can certainly do this with an IB, and I doubt that it does the components much good! :-) Stewart, I've always thought your comments were dead on but I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. With a typical IB setup you'll never hit Xsus. Even if you do it won't damage the driver. For example, I can play Telarc's DVD-A version of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture at such volume that I seriously worry my double sash windows are going to come out the their frames. I'm talking about pegging the radio shack SPL meter at 126dB before getting scared and backing off the volume (even with earplugs). Not once have those 7Hz digital cannons hit Xsus. Now I can hook up a tone generator and hit Xsus with a 3Hz tone but how realistic is that? The sub will play several times louder than my mains so it's a moot point anyway. To get to the SPL numbers above I have to turn off the main amplifers to keep from toasting the speakers. Because of the IB's large headroom I can EQ the sub for flat response from 10Hz up and hit reference levels without running out of bass. Tom Nousaine's IB has eight TC Sounds 15s (23.4mm Xmax) and he has been unable to test maximum SPL at 10 Hz with a 5000 watt amp due to his windows not being up to the task. To quote Tom, "vinyl double windows twist in frame severely". drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. Or you can just use the correct size of sealed box and avoid the problem altogether........ Why? What problem? The poor sealed box has the problem due to lack of displacement. If you're hitting Xsus with an IB then a typical sealed box would have long since hit it's limit . A sealed box of Tempests with equivalent displacement requires over 1000 liters for a Butterworth alignment. I'd rather have a small discrete hole in my ceiling than a massive expensive box in the room. Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). Unfortunately, I have to use what's available in the UK, which doesn't include the Stryke AV15 - and I can't afford a pair of Tumults! Although the Tumult is the king of displacement I doubt anyone would use on for IB due to cost. Since an IB lends itself to multiple drivers it's more economical to use 'lesser' drivers. Four Tempests will get you the same displacement as two Tumults. Seriously, the Tempest is an excellent driver for an IB. Along with the Dayton 15" drivers (available internationally through partsexpress) the Tempest was the most popular IB driver until the AV15 came along. The AV15 has about 50% more displacement per driver than a Tempest or Dayton and costs slightly less per liter. For the same output you just need a few more Tempests...or fewer AV15s. If you want an AV15 (or multiple ones) I'll order them from acoustic-visions and ship them to you at my cost (no added fee). You've been posting here long enough...I trust you |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... Well, unless you have the box on springs, it will also be due to mechanical coupling. IME, ceilings are not so strongly built as floors! Not so. With identical opposing drivers the mechanical forces cancel. It's not like a box sub trying to walk it's way across the floor. Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. Yup - that was my point. You can certainly do this with an IB, and I doubt that it does the components much good! :-) Stewart, I've always thought your comments were dead on but I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. With a typical IB setup you'll never hit Xsus. Even if you do it won't damage the driver. For example, I can play Telarc's DVD-A version of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture at such volume that I seriously worry my double sash windows are going to come out the their frames. I'm talking about pegging the radio shack SPL meter at 126dB before getting scared and backing off the volume (even with earplugs). Not once have those 7Hz digital cannons hit Xsus. Now I can hook up a tone generator and hit Xsus with a 3Hz tone but how realistic is that? The sub will play several times louder than my mains so it's a moot point anyway. To get to the SPL numbers above I have to turn off the main amplifers to keep from toasting the speakers. Because of the IB's large headroom I can EQ the sub for flat response from 10Hz up and hit reference levels without running out of bass. Tom Nousaine's IB has eight TC Sounds 15s (23.4mm Xmax) and he has been unable to test maximum SPL at 10 Hz with a 5000 watt amp due to his windows not being up to the task. To quote Tom, "vinyl double windows twist in frame severely". drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. Or you can just use the correct size of sealed box and avoid the problem altogether........ Why? What problem? The poor sealed box has the problem due to lack of displacement. If you're hitting Xsus with an IB then a typical sealed box would have long since hit it's limit . A sealed box of Tempests with equivalent displacement requires over 1000 liters for a Butterworth alignment. I'd rather have a small discrete hole in my ceiling than a massive expensive box in the room. Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). Unfortunately, I have to use what's available in the UK, which doesn't include the Stryke AV15 - and I can't afford a pair of Tumults! Although the Tumult is the king of displacement I doubt anyone would use on for IB due to cost. Since an IB lends itself to multiple drivers it's more economical to use 'lesser' drivers. Four Tempests will get you the same displacement as two Tumults. Seriously, the Tempest is an excellent driver for an IB. Along with the Dayton 15" drivers (available internationally through partsexpress) the Tempest was the most popular IB driver until the AV15 came along. The AV15 has about 50% more displacement per driver than a Tempest or Dayton and costs slightly less per liter. For the same output you just need a few more Tempests...or fewer AV15s. If you want an AV15 (or multiple ones) I'll order them from acoustic-visions and ship them to you at my cost (no added fee). You've been posting here long enough...I trust you |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... Well, unless you have the box on springs, it will also be due to mechanical coupling. IME, ceilings are not so strongly built as floors! Not so. With identical opposing drivers the mechanical forces cancel. It's not like a box sub trying to walk it's way across the floor. Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. Yup - that was my point. You can certainly do this with an IB, and I doubt that it does the components much good! :-) Stewart, I've always thought your comments were dead on but I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. With a typical IB setup you'll never hit Xsus. Even if you do it won't damage the driver. For example, I can play Telarc's DVD-A version of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture at such volume that I seriously worry my double sash windows are going to come out the their frames. I'm talking about pegging the radio shack SPL meter at 126dB before getting scared and backing off the volume (even with earplugs). Not once have those 7Hz digital cannons hit Xsus. Now I can hook up a tone generator and hit Xsus with a 3Hz tone but how realistic is that? The sub will play several times louder than my mains so it's a moot point anyway. To get to the SPL numbers above I have to turn off the main amplifers to keep from toasting the speakers. Because of the IB's large headroom I can EQ the sub for flat response from 10Hz up and hit reference levels without running out of bass. Tom Nousaine's IB has eight TC Sounds 15s (23.4mm Xmax) and he has been unable to test maximum SPL at 10 Hz with a 5000 watt amp due to his windows not being up to the task. To quote Tom, "vinyl double windows twist in frame severely". drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. Or you can just use the correct size of sealed box and avoid the problem altogether........ Why? What problem? The poor sealed box has the problem due to lack of displacement. If you're hitting Xsus with an IB then a typical sealed box would have long since hit it's limit . A sealed box of Tempests with equivalent displacement requires over 1000 liters for a Butterworth alignment. I'd rather have a small discrete hole in my ceiling than a massive expensive box in the room. Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). Unfortunately, I have to use what's available in the UK, which doesn't include the Stryke AV15 - and I can't afford a pair of Tumults! Although the Tumult is the king of displacement I doubt anyone would use on for IB due to cost. Since an IB lends itself to multiple drivers it's more economical to use 'lesser' drivers. Four Tempests will get you the same displacement as two Tumults. Seriously, the Tempest is an excellent driver for an IB. Along with the Dayton 15" drivers (available internationally through partsexpress) the Tempest was the most popular IB driver until the AV15 came along. The AV15 has about 50% more displacement per driver than a Tempest or Dayton and costs slightly less per liter. For the same output you just need a few more Tempests...or fewer AV15s. If you want an AV15 (or multiple ones) I'll order them from acoustic-visions and ship them to you at my cost (no added fee). You've been posting here long enough...I trust you |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:28:39 -0600, "Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... Well, unless you have the box on springs, it will also be due to mechanical coupling. IME, ceilings are not so strongly built as floors! Not so. With identical opposing drivers the mechanical forces cancel. It's not like a box sub trying to walk it's way across the floor. That's certainly the logical way to minimise box rattle. Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. Yup - that was my point. You can certainly do this with an IB, and I doubt that it does the components much good! :-) Stewart, I've always thought your comments were dead on but I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. With a typical IB setup you'll never hit Xsus. Even if you do it won't damage the driver. OK, I'll take your word on that, but voice coils slamming into backplates (as you yourself describe) doesn't sound like a recipe for longevity! For example, I can play Telarc's DVD-A version of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture at such volume that I seriously worry my double sash windows are going to come out the their frames. I'm talking about pegging the radio shack SPL meter at 126dB before getting scared and backing off the volume (even with earplugs). Not once have those 7Hz digital cannons hit Xsus. Now I can hook up a tone generator and hit Xsus with a 3Hz tone but how realistic is that? The sub will play several times louder than my mains so it's a moot point anyway. To get to the SPL numbers above I have to turn off the main amplifers to keep from toasting the speakers. Because of the IB's large headroom I can EQ the sub for flat response from 10Hz up and hit reference levels without running out of bass. OK, so long as you're happy with it. Since I need 500 watts into 4 ohms to drive a Tempest fully for my target 115dB at 30-100Hz, I see no harm in cushioning the driver by using a box sized so that max power just drops below Xmax from 20Hz down. I'm not wasting any power 'cos it's there anyway, and I protect the drivers from any wayward infrabass accidents. Tom Nousaine's IB has eight TC Sounds 15s (23.4mm Xmax) and he has been unable to test maximum SPL at 10 Hz with a 5000 watt amp due to his windows not being up to the task. To quote Tom, "vinyl double windows twist in frame severely". Yup, I'm familiar with his weapon of house destruction! drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. Or you can just use the correct size of sealed box and avoid the problem altogether........ Why? What problem? The poor sealed box has the problem due to lack of displacement. If you're hitting Xsus with an IB then a typical sealed box would have long since hit it's limit . A sealed box of Tempests with equivalent displacement requires over 1000 liters for a Butterworth alignment. I'd rather have a small discrete hole in my ceiling than a massive expensive box in the room. You can still have the box in the loft space, and a Linkwitz transform equaliser will give you any alignment you want. A small box doesn't have to mean a high Qts in 2003/4. I guess I'm just hedging my bets. Besides, SWMBO doesn't want a hole in the ceiling! You do raise an interesting point, however, as I'm having trouble running the numbers as tpo how small the hole in the ceiling can be before it causes problems with either port noise or turning the manifold into a reflex cabinet. Any advice on that mattter from your own experience? Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). Unfortunately, I have to use what's available in the UK, which doesn't include the Stryke AV15 - and I can't afford a pair of Tumults! Although the Tumult is the king of displacement I doubt anyone would use on for IB due to cost. Since an IB lends itself to multiple drivers it's more economical to use 'lesser' drivers. Four Tempests will get you the same displacement as two Tumults. In your particular type of IB, this is true, although for 'in-room' IBs the Tumult and DPL12 are sonically superior due to their rear basket aerodynamics. Seriously, the Tempest is an excellent driver for an IB. Along with the Dayton 15" drivers (available internationally through partsexpress) the Tempest was the most popular IB driver until the AV15 came along. The AV15 has about 50% more displacement per driver than a Tempest or Dayton and costs slightly less per liter. For the same output you just need a few more Tempests...or fewer AV15s. If you want an AV15 (or multiple ones) I'll order them from acoustic-visions and ship them to you at my cost (no added fee). You've been posting here long enough...I trust you Do you have Thiele Small numbers for the AV15? I might take you up on that if I can't source them any other way. As you say, displacement is everything at LF. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:28:39 -0600, "Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... Well, unless you have the box on springs, it will also be due to mechanical coupling. IME, ceilings are not so strongly built as floors! Not so. With identical opposing drivers the mechanical forces cancel. It's not like a box sub trying to walk it's way across the floor. That's certainly the logical way to minimise box rattle. Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. Yup - that was my point. You can certainly do this with an IB, and I doubt that it does the components much good! :-) Stewart, I've always thought your comments were dead on but I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. With a typical IB setup you'll never hit Xsus. Even if you do it won't damage the driver. OK, I'll take your word on that, but voice coils slamming into backplates (as you yourself describe) doesn't sound like a recipe for longevity! For example, I can play Telarc's DVD-A version of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture at such volume that I seriously worry my double sash windows are going to come out the their frames. I'm talking about pegging the radio shack SPL meter at 126dB before getting scared and backing off the volume (even with earplugs). Not once have those 7Hz digital cannons hit Xsus. Now I can hook up a tone generator and hit Xsus with a 3Hz tone but how realistic is that? The sub will play several times louder than my mains so it's a moot point anyway. To get to the SPL numbers above I have to turn off the main amplifers to keep from toasting the speakers. Because of the IB's large headroom I can EQ the sub for flat response from 10Hz up and hit reference levels without running out of bass. OK, so long as you're happy with it. Since I need 500 watts into 4 ohms to drive a Tempest fully for my target 115dB at 30-100Hz, I see no harm in cushioning the driver by using a box sized so that max power just drops below Xmax from 20Hz down. I'm not wasting any power 'cos it's there anyway, and I protect the drivers from any wayward infrabass accidents. Tom Nousaine's IB has eight TC Sounds 15s (23.4mm Xmax) and he has been unable to test maximum SPL at 10 Hz with a 5000 watt amp due to his windows not being up to the task. To quote Tom, "vinyl double windows twist in frame severely". Yup, I'm familiar with his weapon of house destruction! drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. Or you can just use the correct size of sealed box and avoid the problem altogether........ Why? What problem? The poor sealed box has the problem due to lack of displacement. If you're hitting Xsus with an IB then a typical sealed box would have long since hit it's limit . A sealed box of Tempests with equivalent displacement requires over 1000 liters for a Butterworth alignment. I'd rather have a small discrete hole in my ceiling than a massive expensive box in the room. You can still have the box in the loft space, and a Linkwitz transform equaliser will give you any alignment you want. A small box doesn't have to mean a high Qts in 2003/4. I guess I'm just hedging my bets. Besides, SWMBO doesn't want a hole in the ceiling! You do raise an interesting point, however, as I'm having trouble running the numbers as tpo how small the hole in the ceiling can be before it causes problems with either port noise or turning the manifold into a reflex cabinet. Any advice on that mattter from your own experience? Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). Unfortunately, I have to use what's available in the UK, which doesn't include the Stryke AV15 - and I can't afford a pair of Tumults! Although the Tumult is the king of displacement I doubt anyone would use on for IB due to cost. Since an IB lends itself to multiple drivers it's more economical to use 'lesser' drivers. Four Tempests will get you the same displacement as two Tumults. In your particular type of IB, this is true, although for 'in-room' IBs the Tumult and DPL12 are sonically superior due to their rear basket aerodynamics. Seriously, the Tempest is an excellent driver for an IB. Along with the Dayton 15" drivers (available internationally through partsexpress) the Tempest was the most popular IB driver until the AV15 came along. The AV15 has about 50% more displacement per driver than a Tempest or Dayton and costs slightly less per liter. For the same output you just need a few more Tempests...or fewer AV15s. If you want an AV15 (or multiple ones) I'll order them from acoustic-visions and ship them to you at my cost (no added fee). You've been posting here long enough...I trust you Do you have Thiele Small numbers for the AV15? I might take you up on that if I can't source them any other way. As you say, displacement is everything at LF. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Adire Tempest Downfiring Ported Subwoofer Project : Polyfill Concerns
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:28:39 -0600, "Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... Well, unless you have the box on springs, it will also be due to mechanical coupling. IME, ceilings are not so strongly built as floors! Not so. With identical opposing drivers the mechanical forces cancel. It's not like a box sub trying to walk it's way across the floor. That's certainly the logical way to minimise box rattle. Ultra-long throw 15" drivers such as the Stryke AV15 handle overdrive quite well. Xmax is 23mm but Xsus is over 30mm. The suspension is designed to handle overdrive without damage up to the power rating of the coil. That said, once you hit Xsus you'll never want to do it again...the aluminum voice coil former hitting the backplate sounds like a shotgun blast. Yup - that was my point. You can certainly do this with an IB, and I doubt that it does the components much good! :-) Stewart, I've always thought your comments were dead on but I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. With a typical IB setup you'll never hit Xsus. Even if you do it won't damage the driver. OK, I'll take your word on that, but voice coils slamming into backplates (as you yourself describe) doesn't sound like a recipe for longevity! For example, I can play Telarc's DVD-A version of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture at such volume that I seriously worry my double sash windows are going to come out the their frames. I'm talking about pegging the radio shack SPL meter at 126dB before getting scared and backing off the volume (even with earplugs). Not once have those 7Hz digital cannons hit Xsus. Now I can hook up a tone generator and hit Xsus with a 3Hz tone but how realistic is that? The sub will play several times louder than my mains so it's a moot point anyway. To get to the SPL numbers above I have to turn off the main amplifers to keep from toasting the speakers. Because of the IB's large headroom I can EQ the sub for flat response from 10Hz up and hit reference levels without running out of bass. OK, so long as you're happy with it. Since I need 500 watts into 4 ohms to drive a Tempest fully for my target 115dB at 30-100Hz, I see no harm in cushioning the driver by using a box sized so that max power just drops below Xmax from 20Hz down. I'm not wasting any power 'cos it's there anyway, and I protect the drivers from any wayward infrabass accidents. Tom Nousaine's IB has eight TC Sounds 15s (23.4mm Xmax) and he has been unable to test maximum SPL at 10 Hz with a 5000 watt amp due to his windows not being up to the task. To quote Tom, "vinyl double windows twist in frame severely". Yup, I'm familiar with his weapon of house destruction! drivers we're talking over 20 liters of displacement at Xsus. For another $700 you can make it 40 liters. An amp with an 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter will essentially eliminate hitting Xsus. Or you can just use the correct size of sealed box and avoid the problem altogether........ Why? What problem? The poor sealed box has the problem due to lack of displacement. If you're hitting Xsus with an IB then a typical sealed box would have long since hit it's limit . A sealed box of Tempests with equivalent displacement requires over 1000 liters for a Butterworth alignment. I'd rather have a small discrete hole in my ceiling than a massive expensive box in the room. You can still have the box in the loft space, and a Linkwitz transform equaliser will give you any alignment you want. A small box doesn't have to mean a high Qts in 2003/4. I guess I'm just hedging my bets. Besides, SWMBO doesn't want a hole in the ceiling! You do raise an interesting point, however, as I'm having trouble running the numbers as tpo how small the hole in the ceiling can be before it causes problems with either port noise or turning the manifold into a reflex cabinet. Any advice on that mattter from your own experience? Four AV15's in an IB will give you 3x the output capability at Xmax (15 liters vs 3 liters). Unfortunately, I have to use what's available in the UK, which doesn't include the Stryke AV15 - and I can't afford a pair of Tumults! Although the Tumult is the king of displacement I doubt anyone would use on for IB due to cost. Since an IB lends itself to multiple drivers it's more economical to use 'lesser' drivers. Four Tempests will get you the same displacement as two Tumults. In your particular type of IB, this is true, although for 'in-room' IBs the Tumult and DPL12 are sonically superior due to their rear basket aerodynamics. Seriously, the Tempest is an excellent driver for an IB. Along with the Dayton 15" drivers (available internationally through partsexpress) the Tempest was the most popular IB driver until the AV15 came along. The AV15 has about 50% more displacement per driver than a Tempest or Dayton and costs slightly less per liter. For the same output you just need a few more Tempests...or fewer AV15s. If you want an AV15 (or multiple ones) I'll order them from acoustic-visions and ship them to you at my cost (no added fee). You've been posting here long enough...I trust you Do you have Thiele Small numbers for the AV15? I might take you up on that if I can't source them any other way. As you say, displacement is everything at LF. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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