"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Tom a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote


you moron.


Isn't it kind of chicken**** to be insulting an old man like that
when you're thousands of miles away? You probably never
want to meet him in person. But still, what's the point?

This old man *like* to be insulted. He does a lot of effort for that.
I simply feel no sympathy for this xenophobic idiot.

What's your point ?



Perhaps I am Francophobic, rather than Xenophobic



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Where has Richie gone?
Maybe he's not having so much fun anymore.
He did a good thing though. He went home to
take care of his mom and dad.
Sorry, Richie. Mea Culpa.

In , Clyde Slick wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Tom a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote


you moron.


Isn't it kind of chicken**** to be insulting an old man like that
when you're thousands of miles away? You probably never
want to meet him in person. But still, what's the point?

This old man *like* to be insulted. He does a lot of effort for that.
I simply feel no sympathy for this xenophobic idiot.

What's your point ?



Perhaps I am Francophobic, rather than Xenophobic

I've already told you that several time. You are "Francophobic" in the same
way the nazis were anti-semitic. No difference.

In , Clyde Slick wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Clyde Slick wrote :


I'll be passing through CDG next Thursday morning, the 17th. If you
want to meet, just go to terminal 2E and look for the tell tale yalmake.

Stay prudently in the shelter of the terminal and just watch your feet...
you moron.

So much for French hospitality.

You are so hypocrite that you shouldn't have any problem. Idiot.

In , Tom wrote :

Where has Richie gone?
Maybe he's not having so much fun anymore.
He did a good thing though. He went home to
take care of his mom and dad.
Sorry, Richie. Mea Culpa.

Oh, you are bored without your friend ?
I'm not really surprised. Perhaps it's also time you leave to take care of
your surf.

;-)

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Clyde Slick wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Tom a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote


you moron.


Isn't it kind of chicken**** to be insulting an old man like that
when you're thousands of miles away? You probably never
want to meet him in person. But still, what's the point?

This old man *like* to be insulted. He does a lot of effort for that.
I simply feel no sympathy for this xenophobic idiot.

What's your point ?



Perhaps I am Francophobic, rather than Xenophobic

I've already told you that several time. You are "Francophobic" in the
same
way the nazis were anti-semitic. No difference.


I am sure I would just love all of you if you
were a lot less rude and arrogant, and if you
weren't complete ingrates.



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"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Clyde Slick wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Tom a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote


you moron.


Isn't it kind of chicken**** to be insulting an old man like that
when you're thousands of miles away? You probably never
want to meet him in person. But still, what's the point?

This old man *like* to be insulted. He does a lot of effort for that.
I simply feel no sympathy for this xenophobic idiot.

What's your point ?



Perhaps I am Francophobic, rather than Xenophobic

I've already told you that several time. You are "Francophobic" in the
same
way the nazis were anti-semitic. No difference.


I would love all of you just fine, if only you weren't
so rude, pompous, arrogant and complete ingrates



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"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Clyde Slick wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Clyde Slick wrote :


I'll be passing through CDG next Thursday morning, the 17th. If you
want to meet, just go to terminal 2E and look for the tell tale
yalmake.

Stay prudently in the shelter of the terminal and just watch your
feet...
you moron.

So much for French hospitality.

You are so hypocrite that you shouldn't have any problem. Idiot.

I'll remember that while I am swilling my 5 Euro small
bottle of water at CDG.



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"Lionel" wrote

Tom wrote :

Where has Richie gone?
Maybe he's not having so much fun anymore.
He did a good thing though. He went home to
take care of his mom and dad.
Sorry, Richie. Mea Culpa.

Oh, you are bored without your friend ?

I have to admit, the whole place seems just a bit quiet,
don't you think? He made a large disturbance prancing,
spitting and flailing. That was all before we found the
picture of "some guy" fixing bicycles in Arkansas.

I'm not really surprised. Perhaps it's also time you leave
to take care of your surf.

I will leave to take care of my surf. This will be next month.
Windsurfing is very big in Europe. Do you know it?

Let's hope ol' Sackman gets exactly what he *deserves* when he goes
through CDG. ;-)

In article ,
"Clyde Slick" wrote:

I'll remember that while I am swilling my 5 Euro small
bottle of water at CDG.

The lunch counter features beer on tap and you pull your own pint.
Probably less then 5 Euro.

Stephen

MINe 109 said:

The lunch counter features beer on tap and you pull your own pint.
Probably less then 5 Euro.

Wow! Do they give you your own cup and wave you to the bar?

wrote in message
oups.com

Let's hope ol' Sackman gets exactly what he *deserves* when he goes
through CDG. ;-)

I think that it is far more appropriate to let Sackman live, and be forced
to continue in the pathetic existence in which he daily muddles and fails.

Mr. **** said:

I think that

Arnii, that's 3 consecutive posts in which you didn't accuse me of
engineering plots against you. Are you feeling OK? ;-)

In article ,
George M. Middius wrote:

MINe 109 said:

The lunch counter features beer on tap and you pull your own pint.
Probably less then 5 Euro.

Wow! Do they give you your own cup and wave you to the bar?

No, the tap faces the checkout line, like a soda fountain. It annoys the
workers, because people like me pour foam in the glass instead of
waiting for the beer to run clear, thus requiring assistance.

Stephen

MINe 109 said:

The lunch counter features beer on tap and you pull your own pint.
Probably less then 5 Euro.

Wow! Do they give you your own cup and wave you to the bar?

No, the tap faces the checkout line, like a soda fountain. It annoys the
workers, because people like me pour foam in the glass instead of
waiting for the beer to run clear, thus requiring assistance.

Do they know you're American? ;-)

Free refills though, right? A verre is a verre is a verre.

In article ,
George M. Middius wrote:

MINe 109 said:

The lunch counter features beer on tap and you pull your own pint.
Probably less then 5 Euro.

Wow! Do they give you your own cup and wave you to the bar?

No, the tap faces the checkout line, like a soda fountain. It annoys the
workers, because people like me pour foam in the glass instead of
waiting for the beer to run clear, thus requiring assistance.

Do they know you're American? ;-)

I was the one on the tour most likely to be addressed in the local
language.

Free refills though, right? A verre is a verre is a verre.

Didn't ask! Maybe I should, it's only been 7 or 8 years.

Stephen

MINe 109 said:

Do they know you're American? ;-)

I was the one on the tour most likely to be addressed in the local
language.

Thanks for admitting Mr. MilNe that, you're evasitiveness is in full swing,
today. Thanks for not denying Steephen that the waitparson actually said "va
au diable, sale Americain!"

Free refills though, right? A verre is a verre is a verre.

Didn't ask! Maybe I should, it's only been 7 or 8 years.

Yes you should. Unless the house wine was Corbieres, in which case forget it.

In article ,
George M. Middius wrote:

MINe 109 said:

Do they know you're American? ;-)

I was the one on the tour most likely to be addressed in the local
language.

Thanks for admitting Mr. MilNe that, you're evasitiveness is in full swing,
today. Thanks for not denying Steephen that the waitparson actually said "va
au diable, sale Americain!"

Well, I was on the way to Rome...

Free refills though, right? A verre is a verre is a verre.

Didn't ask! Maybe I should, it's only been 7 or 8 years.

Yes you should. Unless the house wine was Corbieres, in which case forget it.

What goes with a "cloob sahnweech"?

Stephen

Lionel wrote:
In , Clyde Slick wrote :

snipped

Perhaps I am Francophobic, rather than Xenophobic

I've already told you that several time. You are "Francophobic" in
the same
way the nazis were anti-semitic. No difference.


You are exactly right, Lionel, but ol' Sackman doesn't "get it". :-(

wrote in message
oups.com...
Let's hope ol' Sackman gets exactly what he *deserves* when he goes
through CDG. ;-)


yes, a 5 euro samll bottle of water, no doubt, and I will have to carefully
count my change. You wouldn't fare any better , of course.



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MINe 109 said:

Thanks for admitting Mr. MilNe that, you're evasitiveness is in full swing,
today. Thanks for not denying Steephen that the waitparson actually said "va
au diable, sale Americain!"

Well, I was on the way to Rome...

Not as dirty as Naples, but whatever spins your wheels.

Free refills though, right? A verre is a verre is a verre.

Didn't ask! Maybe I should, it's only been 7 or 8 years.

Yes you should. Unless the house wine was Corbieres, in which case forget it.

What goes with a "cloob sahnweech"?

Perhaps ze rhoot biere? We could ask a Frenchy, preferably one who's not
afraid of venturing to Paris.

Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com

Let's hope ol' Sackman gets exactly what he *deserves* when he goes
through CDG. ;-)

I think that it is far more appropriate to let Sackman live, and be
forced
to continue in the pathetic existence in which he daily muddles and
fails.



I meant that since Sackman *expects* to be treated rudely in France,
it's likely that he behaves in a way that engenders just such
treatment. So, to be treated rudely is what he *deserves*.

Clyde Slick wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Let's hope ol' Sackman gets exactly what he *deserves* when he goes
through CDG. ;-)


yes, a 5 euro samll bottle of water, no doubt, and I will have to
carefully
count my change. You wouldn't fare any better , of course.



Wow! Vendors price gouge at airports! How peculiarly French that is!
That would *never happen* in US airports, would it?


To quote Lionel: "Idiot!"

In , Clyde Slick wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Clyde Slick wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Clyde Slick wrote :


I'll be passing through CDG next Thursday morning, the 17th. If you
want to meet, just go to terminal 2E and look for the tell tale
yalmake.

Stay prudently in the shelter of the terminal and just watch your
feet...
you moron.

So much for French hospitality.

You are so hypocrite that you shouldn't have any problem. Idiot.

I'll remember that while I am swilling my 5 Euro small
bottle of water at CDG.

5 Euro only ?

Richie wrote

Let's hope ol' Sackman gets exactly what he *deserves*
when he goes through CDG. ;-)

Arny wrote:

I think that it is far more appropriate to let Sackman live,
and be forced to continue in the pathetic existence in which
he daily muddles and fails.


Richie wrote

I meant that since Sackman *expects* to be treated rudely in France,
it's likely that he behaves in a way that engenders just such
treatment. So, to be treated rudely is what he *deserves*.


Apparently Arny thinks Art *deserves* to die. It was nice of
you to explain very slowly and in simple English how Art will
"likely behave" and therefore *deserve* rudeness.

Arny's not the brightest bulb on the tree.

You're a good old hippy, aren't you.

In , Tom wrote :

"Lionel" wrote

Tom wrote :

Where has Richie gone?
Maybe he's not having so much fun anymore.
He did a good thing though. He went home to
take care of his mom and dad.
Sorry, Richie. Mea Culpa.

Oh, you are bored without your friend ?

I have to admit, the whole place seems just a bit quiet,
don't you think? He made a large disturbance prancing,
spitting and flailing. That was all before we found the
picture of "some guy" fixing bicycles in Arkansas.

Is it an American trait to evaluate someone considering his profession ?

I'm not really surprised. Perhaps it's also time you leave
to take care of your surf.

I will leave to take care of my surf. This will be next month.
Windsurfing is very big in Europe. Do you know it?

I have tried one time to put my feet on one of these machines...
Its vengeance has been terrible.

:-)

Lionel wrote:
In , Tom wrote :

"Lionel" wrote

Tom wrote :

Where has Richie gone?
Maybe he's not having so much fun anymore.
He did a good thing though. He went home to
take care of his mom and dad.
Sorry, Richie. Mea Culpa.

Oh, you are bored without your friend ?

I have to admit, the whole place seems just a bit quiet,
don't you think? He made a large disturbance prancing,
spitting and flailing. That was all before we found the
picture of "some guy" fixing bicycles in Arkansas.

Is it an American trait to evaluate someone considering his
profession ?


Yeah. I suspect it started out as a reaction to the old European trait
of evaluating people by their lineage. We are a country made up mostly
of immigrants that had no highbrow falily lineage and sought an
oppurtunity to make more of themselves. Unlike one's lineage, one can
choose their profession. So yeah, we do tend to evaluate someone based
in some part on their occupation.



I'm not really surprised. Perhaps it's also time you leave
to take care of your surf.

I will leave to take care of my surf. This will be next month.
Windsurfing is very big in Europe. Do you know it?

I have tried one time to put my feet on one of these machines...
Its vengeance has been terrible.

:-)

Looks like fun though. I'm from the old school. No sails.



Scott Wheeler

MINe 109 wrote:

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

And you are looking to justify your obsession with upscale
audio, even though upscale audio systems are simply not
needed to listen to most rock music. Mid-fi does the job
just fine.

hifi does the job better.

Stephen

Mid-fi, wildly electronically manipulated recordings do not
require hi-fi system playback to do the job for the head
bangers who like such sounds.

Howard Ferstler

MINe 109 wrote:

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

Why is it when someone has a rational approach to a subject
like music those who have a less rational approach typecast
him as "snobbish?"

When that someone dismisses an entire style of music out-of-hand.

Well, I do believe that it has to at least qualify as music.
Is obnoxious-sounding noise music?

One could argue that a system needs to be accurate to reflect the
artist's intentions most faithfully.

Yes. Which system does the best job of reproducing all of
that noise?

Careful, or you'll have Nousaine after you.

Hey, you probably already know this, but Tom helped to proof
my third book. I had a short section in there on automotive
audio (which I consider a borderline joke), and when he
reached that section his feedback to me was rather more
pointed than usual.

But, hey, I do not think it is necessary to agree with every
opinion that anybody has to also realize that some of their
opinions are right on target.

Fortunately, according to you, pretty much all equipment is
automatically accurate.

Amps, wires, CD players, for sure, barring defects, of
course, or intentional design anomalies. If you think I
believe in automatic accuracy when it comes to speakers or
surround processors, or speaker/room interactions, you need
to scare up some of my magazine articles and reports, or
books, and get up to date.

No.

Ignorance is bliss.

Howard Ferstler

Brother Horace the Ambience-Deprived said:

Mid-fi, wildly electronically manipulated recordings

Yes, that's your favorite -- highly processed "surround sound" stuff.

do not require hi-fi system playback to do the job

You're getting completely consumed by your tidal wave of envy, Clerkie.
Nobody can be this twisted about materialism and possessions. You had a
relapse, didn't you? Tell us all about your woes. It's called pulling a
Krooger. You get to push everybody's involuntary sympathy button while
chuckling to yourself about what a bunch of saps we are. All we need to know
is how long the doctor gave you.

dave weil wrote:

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:16:44 -0500, Howard Ferstler
wrote:

And, now, it is time to call it a day. Let's see if you can
do the same thing.

Well, I'm back from work now. Did you saysomething?

It's Friday, and I'll just bet that you have come back to
this thread over and over to see if I came up with a
response.

Well, now you have read it.

Howard Ferstler

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

MINe 109 wrote:

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

Why is it when someone has a rational approach to a subject
like music those who have a less rational approach typecast
him as "snobbish?"

When that someone dismisses an entire style of music out-of-hand.

Well, I do believe that it has to at least qualify as music.
Is obnoxious-sounding noise music?

Sometimes. Varese, Antheil, Partch, inarguably. Since rock is rhythmic
and pitched, your objection can only be with timbre, which is not enough
exclude 'rock' from 'music'.

One could argue that a system needs to be accurate to reflect the
artist's intentions most faithfully.

Yes. Which system does the best job of reproducing all of
that noise?

Careful, or you'll have Nousaine after you.

Hey, you probably already know this, but Tom helped to proof
my third book. I had a short section in there on automotive
audio (which I consider a borderline joke), and when he
reached that section his feedback to me was rather more
pointed than usual.

He also likes to go on about hifi not being limited to music. He seems
to enjoy what he considers good recordings of noises.

But, hey, I do not think it is necessary to agree with every
opinion that anybody has to also realize that some of their
opinions are right on target.

He might object that you try to categorize 'rock' as 'noise'.

Fortunately, according to you, pretty much all equipment is
automatically accurate.

Amps, wires, CD players, for sure, barring defects, of
course, or intentional design anomalies. If you think I
believe in automatic accuracy when it comes to speakers or
surround processors, or speaker/room interactions, you need
to scare up some of my magazine articles and reports, or
books, and get up to date.

No.

Ignorance is bliss.

You've often written that speaker A sounds very close to speaker B,
usually comparing a sub/sat system to a full-range.

Stephen

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

MINe 109 wrote:

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

And you are looking to justify your obsession with upscale
audio, even though upscale audio systems are simply not
needed to listen to most rock music. Mid-fi does the job
just fine.

hifi does the job better.

Stephen

Mid-fi, wildly electronically manipulated recordings do not
require hi-fi system playback to do the job for the head
bangers who like such sounds.

Yes, but I'm not one of those head-bangers. Hifi is better.

Stephen

"George M. Middius" wrote:

Brother Horace the Ambience-Deprived said:

Mid-fi, wildly electronically manipulated recordings

Yes, that's your favorite -- highly processed "surround sound" stuff.

I have decided to actually bother to respond at length to
one of your messages. This will not happen often, tweako, so
enjoy it while you can.

OK, I have compared some SACD and DVD-A "surround"
recordings to their CD counterparts after the latter were
given some really quality "highly processed" DSP
ambiance-simulation work, and in my opinion the manipulated
CDs nearly always sounded better. Formalized reviews of all
of the surround SACD releases will be in upcoming issues of
The Sensible Sound. I have previously reviewed quite a few
DVD-A releases for the same magazine.

Incidentally, the audio systems I did this with either
offered up bass management for the SACD and DVD-A stuff, or
else had speakers big enough to handle the bass if no
management was applied. All of the speakers were roughly
equidistant from the listening position in both of the
systems involved, so distance compensation was not required
with the SACD and DVD-A sources.

Now, this involved "classical" music for the most part,
although there were even some pop/jazz releases involved
that did not put instrumentation into the surround channels.
So, the ambiance-simulation processing with the CD versions
were not at a disadvantage. All the surround channels had to
do is deliver a hall-ambiance effect. DSP ambiance
simulation can do this very well, indeed, with two-channel
source material.

However, even Ferstler will admit that with material that
has instrumentation in those surround channels the SACD and
DVD-A versions did sound more impressive. Recordings like
that are not my bag, however, unless we are talking about
maybe some of the stuff Berlioz did, or we are dealing with
other recordings by other serious composers that involved
putting performers behind the listener or in the corners of
the hall or church.

By the way, most SACD and DVD-A releases have no center feed
at all, or only a token feed at best. Because of this, good
DSP programs (including Dolby Pro Logic II) working with
two-channel sources can, because of advanced derived-center
circuitry, deliver a more realistic center focus than those
high-data-rate formats. Of course, a good center speaker,
properly located, is required if this is to pay off.

In any case, you have no idea whatsoever of just how well
"good" DSP ambiance simulation (or, if we are talking about
DPL II, ambiance extraction) technology can work with good
two-channel source material.

Incidentally, by now I have probably published reviews of
over 3,000 recordings in two books and scads of magazine
reviews. How many have you reviewed, tweako?

Howard Ferstler

MINe 109 wrote:

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

Well, I do believe that it has to at least qualify as music.
Is obnoxious-sounding noise music?

Sometimes. Varese, Antheil, Partch, inarguably. Since rock is rhythmic
and pitched, your objection can only be with timbre, which is not enough
exclude 'rock' from 'music'.

Hey, just kidding. Rock is music. At least some of it is.

One could argue that a system needs to be accurate to reflect the
artist's intentions most faithfully.

Yes. Which system does the best job of reproducing all of
that noise?

Careful, or you'll have Nousaine after you.

Hey, you probably already know this, but Tom helped to proof
my third book. I had a short section in there on automotive
audio (which I consider a borderline joke), and when he
reached that section his feedback to me was rather more
pointed than usual.

He also likes to go on about hifi not being limited to music. He seems
to enjoy what he considers good recordings of noises.

Some people are that way. I assume that at his place those
noises are at least accurately reproduced. Actually, I
rather like some noises, too. In spite of my advanced
cultural and musical tastes, I enjoy watching (and listening
to) killer-sound, action-adventure movies. Have a whole
collection of them, would you believe. My wife cannot stand
the things.

But, hey, I do not think it is necessary to agree with every
opinion that anybody has to also realize that some of their
opinions are right on target.

He might object that you try to categorize 'rock' as 'noise'.

Some of it is noise. And just about all of it is not what I
would consider listening to if I wanted to evaluate the
subjective accuracy of an audio system.

Fortunately, according to you, pretty much all equipment is
automatically accurate.

Amps, wires, CD players, for sure, barring defects, of
course, or intentional design anomalies. If you think I
believe in automatic accuracy when it comes to speakers or
surround processors, or speaker/room interactions, you need
to scare up some of my magazine articles and reports, or
books, and get up to date.

No.

Ignorance is bliss.

You've often written that speaker A sounds very close to speaker B,
usually comparing a sub/sat system to a full-range.

Yep, sometimes, but certainly not all the time. For example,
when I did a review of some Triad Silver satellite systems
and their dual subwoofers a while back, I compared that
package to a pair of Dunlavy Cantata systems. I carefully
level matched, and because the Cantatas and the Triads were
both pretty flat responding with my room-curve measurements,
I could get a really good overlap of their outputs when I
did that level matching. That made for very close subjective
sound levels as I switched back and forth during the
comparison.

Both systems use vertical MTM tweeter-mid arrays (although
the Cantatas have first-order crossover networks and the
Triads used second order), so it was easy to get them both
set up with the centers of the arrays identical. This height
match is important in doing speaker comparisons, and it can
be tricky to do if the front panels have different
speaker-driver location arrangements. The Triads and
Cantatas did not have that problem.

When I did the comparisons, I discovered that the two
arrangements sounded more alike than any other speakers I
had auditioned. While the Cantatas (which I use as reference
standards these days) easily sound different from most other
speakers that I have reviewed, the Triads were often so
close to the Dunlavys in terms of spectral balance,
particularly in the midrange, that it was just about
impossible to tell them apart. They were also quite close in
the bass.

My review of the Cantatas can be found in issue 87 of The
Sensible Sound. The review of the Triads (where I compare
them to the Cantatas) can be found in issue 93.
Room-response curves of both systems can be found in issue
95.

Howard Ferstler

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

'rock' as 'noise'

Some of it is noise.

Even "Metal Machine Music" is music. Sorta.

And just about all of it is not what I
would consider listening to if I wanted to evaluate the
subjective accuracy of an audio system.

That's fine, for you, because you don't know what it should sound like.

Some of us do know, or at least close enough to guess what rock should
sound like, as you presumably do with classical recordings.

Stephen

Brother Horace the Persistently Mediocre said:

Brother Horace the Ambience-Deprived said:

Mid-fi, wildly electronically manipulated recordings

Yes, that's your favorite -- highly processed "surround sound" stuff.

I have decided to actually bother to respond at length to
one of your messages.

As usual, your seriously flawed decision-making process has led you astray.

"Lionel" wrote

Is it an American trait to evaluate someone considering his profession ?

Don't you do it? In Richie's case, it's turnabout.

I'm not really surprised. Perhaps it's also time you leave
to take care of your surf.

I will leave to take care of my surf. This will be next month.
Windsurfing is very big in Europe. Do you know it?

I have tried one time to put my feet on one of these machines...
Its vengeance has been terrible.

NOTHING is more fun than going 35 knots on a surfboard in
rough water. Or full speed straight into a wave.

"MINe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
George M. Middius wrote:

MINe 109 said:

The lunch counter features beer on tap and you pull your own pint.
Probably less then 5 Euro.

Wow! Do they give you your own cup and wave you to the bar?

No, the tap faces the checkout line, like a soda fountain. It annoys the
workers, because people like me pour foam in the glass instead of
waiting for the beer to run clear, thus requiring assistance.

Stephen

Outbound, there is no lunch counter in the terminal. Anyway, its about 7 AM
when I am there. Inbound, I didn't see any beer tap. "At least" there is
free wine on the plane.



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