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#521
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"Phil" wrote in message news:NM52d.51822$MQ5.9644@attbi_s52... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Phil" wrote in message news:LwL1d.49728$D%.24659@attbi_s51... The 100% definitive call is not to claim forgery but that isn't a forgery and is on the consideration of handwriting analysis, which is not the issue thus relevant. Arny!!!!! Help me decipher this Krooglish, please. I admit this isn't well written but let me explain. It would help a bit if you hadn't edited the previous post so much. Anyway MINe 109 quoted this: "One problem in making the case of this being a forgery is that the credible experts cited will not make a 100% definitive call without seeing the original. " This has to do with handwriting analysis. You can 100% definitively say the handwriting is authentic unless you have the original, however the statement is reverse. That you can't show forgery without the original. Realize the requirement is to show your right, that the document is authentic. Assumption of forgery can happen if you can't prove authentic of the document thus the 100% isn't needed. The second point was the post was about Boston Global article that MINe 109 used to support his point which proved invalid. This statement was a immaterial to the issue. Phil I give up. "You can 100% definitively say the handwriting is authentic unless you have the original, however the statement is reverse." ????????????????? "Realize the requirement is to show your right, that the document is authentic. Assumption of forgery can happen if you can't prove authentic of the document thus the 100% isn't needed." ??????????? I think somehow this lies in the semantics of the word forgery. There are two possible forgeries. One, the document could be forged. Two, the signature could be forged. It doesn't have to be both, though in this case, it is. However, note that it would be realisitically inexplicable as to how one could have a forged document with the real signature. |
#522
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On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:46:21 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote: Case in point, to day Kerry is making vaugue comments about not allowing the GOP to keep black voters from making it to the poll as they did in the last election. Of course it never happened in the last election and nobody who investigated it found any evidence of anybody be disallowed from voting other than convicted felons. The United States Commission on Civil Rights in 2001 found widespread disfranchisement, especially among African-Americans. http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm After carefully and fully examining all the evidence, the Commission found a strong basis for concluding that violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (VRA) occurred in Florida. The VRA was enacted in 1965 to enforce the 15th Amendment’s proscription against voting discrimination. It is aimed at both subtle and overt state action that has the effect of denying a citizen the right to vote because of his or her race. Although the VRA originally focused on enfranchising African Americans, the law has been amended several times to also include American Indians, Asian Americans, Alaskan Natives, and people of Spanish heritage. Additionally, the VRA includes a provision that recognizes the need for multilingual assistance for non-English speakers. The VRA does not require intent to discriminate. Neither does it require proof of a conspiracy. Violations of the VRA can be established by evidence that the action or inaction of responsible officials and other evidence constitute a “totality of the circumstances” that denied citizens their right to vote. For example, if there are differences in voting procedures and voting technologies and the result of those differences is to advantage white voters and disadvantage minority voters, then the laws, the procedures, and the decisions that produced those results, viewed in the context of social and historical factors, can be discriminatory, and a violation of the VRA. The report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred. Instead, the report concludes that officials ignored the mounting evidence of rising voter registration rates in communities. The state’s highest officials responsible for ensuring efficiency, uniformity, and fairness in the election failed to fulfill their responsibilities and were subsequently unwilling to take responsibility. Disenfranchised Voters Disenfranchised voters are individuals who are entitled to vote, want to vote, or attempt to vote, but who are deprived from either voting or having their votes counted. The most dramatic undercount in the Florida election was the uncast ballots of countless eligible voters who were wrongfully turned away from the polls. Statistical data, reinforced by credible anecdotal evidence, point to the widespread denial of voting rights. It is impossible to determine the extent of the disenfranchisement or to provide an adequate remedy to the persons whose voices were silenced by injustice, ineptitude, and inefficiency. However, careful analysis and some reasonable projections illustrate what happened in Florida. The disenfranchisement of Florida’s voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of black voters. The magnitude of the impact can be seen from any of several perspectives: * Statewide, based upon county-level statistical estimates, black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than nonblack voters to have their ballots rejected. * Estimates indicate that approximately 14.4 percent of Florida’s black voters cast ballots that were rejected. This compares with approximately 1.6 percent of nonblack Florida voters who did not have their presidential votes counted. * Statistical analysis shows that the disparity in ballot spoilage rates—i.e., ballots cast but not counted—between black and nonblack voters is not the result of education or literacy differences. This conclusion is supported by Governor Jeb Bush’s Select Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology, which found that error rates stemming from uneducated, uninformed, or disinterested voters account for less than 1 percent of the problems. * Approximately 11 percent of Florida voters were African American; however, African Americans cast about 54 percent of the 180,000 spoiled ballots in Florida during the November 2000 election based on estimates derived from county-level data. These statewide estimates were corroborated by the results in several counties based on actual precinct data. Poor counties, particularly those with large minority populations, were more likely to possess voting systems with higher spoilage rates than the more affluent counties with significant white populations. There is a high correlation between counties and precincts with a high percentage of African American voters and the percentage of spoiled ballots. For example: * Nine of the 10 counties with the highest percentage of African American voters had spoilage rates above the Florida average. * Of the 10 counties with the highest percentage of white voters, only two counties had spoilage rates above the state average. * Gadsden County, with the highest rate of spoiled ballots, also had the highest percentage of African American voters. * Where precinct data were available, the data show that 83 of the 100 precincts with the highest numbers of spoiled ballots are black-majority precincts. The magnitude of the disenfranchisement, including the disparity between black and nonblack voters, is supported by the testimony of witnesses at the Commission’s hearings. These witnesses include local election officials, poll workers, ordinary voters, and activists. Among the sworn testimony: * One potential voter waited hours at the polls because of a registration mix-up as poll workers attempted to call the office of the supervisor of elections. The call never got through and the individual was not allowed to vote. A former poll worker herself, she testified that she never saw anything like it during her 18 years as a poll worker. * A poll worker in Miami-Dade County with 15 years of experience testified, “By far this was the worst election I have ever experienced. After that election, I decided I didn’t want to work as a clerk anymore.” * A poll worker in Palm Beach County testified that she had to use her personal cell phone to attempt to contact the election supervisor’s office. Despite trying all day, she only got through two or three times over the course of 12 hours. * A Broward County poll worker testified that in past elections it took about 10 minutes to get through to the elections supervisor. During the course of the November 2000 election, she turned away approximately 40–50 potential voters because she could not access the supervisor of elections. * A Boynton Beach poll worker explained how his precinct workers turned away about 30–50 potential voters because they could not get through to the supervisor of elections. He was successful only once during an eight-hour period. * Other persons testified about waiting in long lines only to be ultimately denied their right to vote. The Commission calls upon the attorney general of the United States to immediately begin the litigation process to determine liability under the VRA [Voting Rights Act] and appropriate remedies. The Commission is a fact-finding body, authorized to investigate allegations of voting discrimination, fraud, and other irregularities. However, it does not adjudicate violations of the law, hold trials, or determine civil or criminal liability. It is within the jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Justice and Florida law enforcement officials to seek appropriate sanctions and remedies. In addition to calling on the attorney general to initiate the litigation process on this issue, the Commission requests this action on a number of other issues as well, such as Florida’s handling of its voter roll purge and its failure to accommodate voters with disabilities and limited English proficiency. The Commission recommends that Florida retain knowledgeable experts to undertake a formal study to ascertain the reason for the racial disparities in vote rejection rates between white voters and persons of color. Once this is completed, the state should adopt and publicize procedures to eliminate this disparity. As a start, the state could identify and promote the “best practices” of counties in Florida or around the nation that performed well during the 2000 presidential election. -- Jacob Kramer |
#523
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
"N" wrote in message om 1. Embarrassing to anyone who was around in that era, because it's obvious draft dodging. Although I'm not 100% against that; almost anyone back then who had connections and the smarts to beat the draft in some way did so. Yep, beating the draft by enlisting is a clear example of draft dodging. It's just beating your taxes by first paying them. I realize that my referring to enlisting as "beating the draft" may seem like an unusual way to describe what I meant. To clarify, I meant people who were about to be drafted, or suspected they would be drafted eventually, who avoided the draft and the possibility of becoming soldiers in Vietnam (or elsewhere) by enlisting in another branch of service where these people would be much less likely to see combat. A good friend of mine back then did exactly this; at the time, his choices were either get drafted or leave the US for keeps. I think it's quite likely Dubya had the same set of options and enlisted to avoid being drafted. That doesn't particularly bother me; as I said above, almost anybody who had connections and smarts back then used those to avoid combat. That may be true in all wars. I registered for the draft, but nobody was being drafted around then, so I didn't have to deal with all these issues. What does bother me is Bush supporters attacking Kerry's record, which is obviously more impressive than Bush's. If I were a Bush supporter, I'd be ashamed of those people. |
#524
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message ...
"N" wrote in message om... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "N" wrote in message m... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message k.net... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message . net... (snip) (snip) On Bush... He elected to serve, with the hope that his NG unit would stay stateside (no guarantee). There is NOTHING wrong with that. Agree. There aren't many people who want to be in combat; had I been in his shoes, I might've looked for the best deal, taken it, and not been ashamed either. Luckily, although I registered for the draft, nobody was being drafted around then. The draft system was quite unfair and made it easy for people with connections, smarts, and money to evade being drafted. 2. Embarrassing compared to Kerry's record. That is not embarrassing (assuming Kerry's record is an honest representation of the truth); its just not as heroic. I'll add that Bush's record is "not as heroic." And the attacks on Kerry's record, when Bush's record is nowhere near as heroic, are embarrassing, or ought to be. By your measure, Clinton's record is embarrassing, comparted to Bush. Perhaps so. But the fact that neither of the above apparently wanted to fight isn't something I hold against either of them. Anyway, Clinton is long out of office and not running this year. 3. Embarrassing because some Bush supporters have attacked Kerry's record, when Bush has nowhere near the experience Kerry had. When it comes to war, Kerry is obviously the "been there, done that" guy, especially compared to Bush. I think most of the attacks are about Kerry's veracity. The arguments are that he embellished things. So, even if he did, his actual service is still an honor to his name, assuming his lack of attention didn't cause needless innocent death in the sampan incident. I think anybody'd be impressed that Kerry was willing to stick his neck out and go to war. Kerry's obviously the "been there, done that" guy of anybody in this post, and I respect that about Kerry. When Kerry talks about war, he's seen war and been at war. 4. Embarrassing for Bush and his crowd to be so eager for war and to send young people to fight it and die in it, when avoiding war and military service was obviously so important to our leadership when they were young enough to fight. Seems hypocritical. William Jefferson Clinton He avoided service through deferments, has no military experience, did not desire to fight in Viet Nam, Giving him much in common with many, many men of his age. and he led US soldiers into battle. And I do NOT criticize him for this. CIF was his job as President, and military experience is NOT a prerequisite to be President. Agree. It's part of the job. And somehow this reminds me of Eisenhower's (another "been there, done that" guy) and his warning about the military-industrial complex. If anybody would know, it would be Ike, I think we'd all have to agree. The increasing privatization of the military and importance of contractors like Halliburton is pretty disturbing for those who remember Ike's warning. Getting back to 2004, this whole Vietnam business is working well for Bush, in that people like us are discussing what happened decades ago, instead of focusing on the future and thinking about what Bush or Kerry will do, once elected. |
#526
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"N" wrote in message
om "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "N" wrote in message om 1. Embarrassing to anyone who was around in that era, because it's obvious draft dodging. Although I'm not 100% against that; almost anyone back then who had connections and the smarts to beat the draft in some way did so. Yep, beating the draft by enlisting is a clear example of draft dodging. It's just beating your taxes by first paying them. I realize that my referring to enlisting as "beating the draft" may seem like an unusual way to describe what I meant. To clarify, I meant people who were about to be drafted, or suspected they would be drafted eventually, who avoided the draft and the possibility of becoming soldiers in Vietnam (or elsewhere) by enlisting in another branch of service where these people would be much less likely to see combat. The odds of actually seeing combat in *any* war are fairly low - there are something like a dozen support troops for every rifleman on the front line, even more if the trooper on the line has more extensive technology backing them than a rifle. As always, there were risks and costs. Just because you were drafted didn't mean that you went to Vietnam, and just because you went to Vietnam didn't mean that something bad happened to you while you were there. Signing up for the National Guard is not a guarantee freedom from duty in a war zone, either then or now. A reserve enlistment has a 6 year guard duty commitment, I believe it was a 6 month active duty commitment. In contrast draftees had only a 2 year active duty commitment that often dropped to less than 15 months in practice. There was even a meritocracy option - if you could qualify for training in an occupational specialty that wasn't practiced in Vietnam, then you could take 3 years active duty with negligable chance of going to Vietnam. A good friend of mine back then did exactly this; at the time, his choices were either get drafted or leave the US for keeps. That would be the panic reaction. I think it's quite likely Dubya had the same set of options and enlisted to avoid being drafted. Like I said, there were a spectrum of legal alternatives, each had different requirements, costs and benefits. Many of these were available to anybody who wanted to do more duty than the absolute minimum. As always, you made your choices and paid the price. Did Kerry exploit the system, too? Note that he only spent 4 months in Vietnam when the usual ground-pounder tour of duty was 12 months. That doesn't particularly bother me; as I said above, almost anybody who had connections and smarts back then used those to avoid combat. If they wanted to avoid combat. Some people like to hunt goodly-sized, intelligent, heavily-armed mammals that can shoot back. That may be true in all wars. I registered for the draft, but nobody was being drafted around then, so I didn't have to deal with all these issues. If you would have been around during the Vietnam era, you would have had a menu of choices to pick from. What does bother me is Bush supporters attacking Kerry's record, which is obviously more impressive than Bush's. I think that Kerry invited attack from other Vietnam veterans by turning peacnik when he returned. One could cynically say that at the time Vietnam Kerry saw a political opportunity that had the potential to lead to the White House. If I were a Bush supporter, I'd be ashamed of those people. Some of these Vietnam vet organizations that attack Kerry predate Bush's involvement with Kerry by many years. |
#527
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How to measure the heroism ?
For Japaneses during the WWII, kamikazes were heroes. For the Palestinians now, humans-bombs are heroes. By 1944, June 6th, while 9,000 GIs were killed on Normandy beachs 20,000 french civilians were killed by US and British bombing on Rouen, Caen... Who are the real heroes of this day ? Between January and August 1916, on 20 x 4 km square in Verdun 1916 300,000 soldiers Germans and Frenchs have been killed are they 300,000 heroes ? I remember that US army has had 55,000 killed during war in Vietnam but I also remember that there was also 2,000,000 Vietnameses killed during this same war. Who are the heroes ? In Stalingrad who was the hero ? The civilian, the communist, or the German soldier ? During French dirty war in Algeria who was the hero ? The fellagha or the French parachutist ? They have given you a funny subject of discussion and you are discussing... What a country of morons ! |
#528
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"Jacob Kramer" wrote in message ... The disenfranchisement of Florida's voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of black voters. The magnitude of the impact can be seen from any of several perspectives: * Statewide, based upon county-level statistical estimates, black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than nonblack voters to have their ballots rejected. * A ballot doesn't contain any racial identification of the voter. Voting officials are locally elected or appointed officials. There is no racial axe to grind. Estimates indicate that approximately 14.4 percent of Florida's black voters cast ballots that were rejected. This compares with approximately 1.6 percent of nonblack Florida voters who did not have their presidential votes counted. * A ballot doesn't contain any racial identification of the voter. Voting officials are locally elected or appointed officials. There is no racial axe to grind. Statistical analysis shows that the disparity in ballot spoilage rates-i.e., ballots cast but not counted-between black and nonblack voters is not the result of education or literacy differences. This conclusion is supported by Governor Jeb Bush's Select Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology, which found that error rates stemming from uneducated, uninformed, or disinterested voters account for less than 1 percent of the problems. * A ballot doesn't contain any racial identification of the voter. Voting officials are locally elected or appointed officials. There is no racial axe to grind. Approximately 11 percent of Florida voters were African American; however, African Americans cast about 54 percent of the 180,000 spoiled ballots in Florida during the November 2000 election based on estimates derived from county-level data. These statewide estimates were corroborated by the results in several counties based on actual precinct data. A ballot doesn't contain any racial identification of the voter. Voting officials are locally elected or appointed officials. There is no racial axe to grind. Poor counties, particularly those with large minority populations, were more likely to possess voting systems with higher spoilage rates than the more affluent counties with significant white populations. There is a high correlation between counties and precincts with a high percentage of African American voters and the percentage of spoiled ballots. For example: * Nine of the 10 counties with the highest percentage of African American voters had spoilage rates above the Florida average. * A ballot doesn't contain any racial identification of the voter. Voting officials are locally elected or appointed officials. There is no racial axe to grind. Of the 10 counties with the highest percentage of white voters, only two counties had spoilage rates above the state average. * A ballot doesn't contain any racial identification of the voter. Voting officials are locally elected or appointed officials. There is no racial axe to grind. Gadsden County, with the highest rate of spoiled ballots, also had the highest percentage of African American voters. * A ballot doesn't contain any racial identification of the voter. Voting officials are locally elected or appointed officials. There is no racial axe to grind. Where precinct data were available, the data show that 83 of the 100 precincts with the highest numbers of spoiled ballots are black-majority precincts. The magnitude of the disenfranchisement, including the disparity between black and nonblack voters, is supported by the testimony of witnesses at the Commission's hearings. These witnesses include local election officials, poll workers, ordinary voters, and activists. Among the sworn testimony: A ballot doesn't contain any racial identification of the voter. Voting officials are locally elected or appointed officials. There is no racial axe to grind. * One potential voter waited hours at the polls because of a registration mix-up as poll workers attempted to call the office of the supervisor of elections. The call never got through and the individual was not allowed to vote. A former poll worker herself, she testified that she never saw anything like it during her 18 years as a poll worker. * Voting officials are locally elected or appointed officials. In most cases, the County supervisor of elections was a Democrat. PARTICULARLY IN THE AREAS WHERE BLACK POPULATION IS HIGH PERCENTAGE. A poll worker in Miami-Dade County with 15 years of experience testified, "By far this was the worst election I have ever experienced. After that election, I decided I didn't want to work as a clerk anymore." * A particular local election run by a DEMOCRAT. A poll worker in Palm Beach County testified that she had to use her personal cell phone to attempt to contact the election supervisor's office. Despite trying all day, she only got through two or three times over the course of 12 hours. * Another election RUN BY A DEMOCRAT. A Broward County poll worker testified that in past elections it took about 10 minutes to get through to the elections supervisor. During the course of the November 2000 election, she turned away approximately 40-50 potential voters because she could not access the supervisor of elections. * and a THIRD COUNTY ELECTION RUN BY A DEMOCRAT. A Boynton Beach poll worker explained how his precinct workers turned away about 30-50 potential voters because they could not get through to the supervisor of elections. He was successful only once during an eight-hour period. * The supervisor of elections there was a DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!! Jacob Kramer Jacob, you are an IDIOT. |
#529
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"N" wrote in message om... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "N" wrote in message om... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "N" wrote in message m... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message k.net... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message . net... (snip) (snip) On Bush... He elected to serve, with the hope that his NG unit would stay stateside (no guarantee). There is NOTHING wrong with that. Agree. There aren't many people who want to be in combat; had I been in his shoes, I might've looked for the best deal, taken it, and not been ashamed either. Luckily, although I registered for the draft, nobody was being drafted around then. The draft system was quite unfair and made it easy for people with connections, smarts, and money to evade being drafted. 2. Embarrassing compared to Kerry's record. That is not embarrassing (assuming Kerry's record is an honest representation of the truth); its just not as heroic. I'll add that Bush's record is "not as heroic." And the attacks on Kerry's record, when Bush's record is nowhere near as heroic, are embarrassing, or ought to be. By your measure, Clinton's record is embarrassing, comparted to Bush. Perhaps so. But the fact that neither of the above apparently wanted to fight isn't something I hold against either of them. Anyway, Clinton is long out of office and not running this year. 3. Embarrassing because some Bush supporters have attacked Kerry's record, when Bush has nowhere near the experience Kerry had. When it comes to war, Kerry is obviously the "been there, done that" guy, especially compared to Bush. I think most of the attacks are about Kerry's veracity. The arguments are that he embellished things. So, even if he did, his actual service is still an honor to his name, assuming his lack of attention didn't cause needless innocent death in the sampan incident. I think anybody'd be impressed that Kerry was willing to stick his neck out and go to war. Kerry's obviously the "been there, done that" guy of anybody in this post, and I respect that about Kerry. When Kerry talks about war, he's seen war and been at war. 4. Embarrassing for Bush and his crowd to be so eager for war and to send young people to fight it and die in it, when avoiding war and military service was obviously so important to our leadership when they were young enough to fight. Seems hypocritical. William Jefferson Clinton He avoided service through deferments, has no military experience, did not desire to fight in Viet Nam, Giving him much in common with many, many men of his age. and he led US soldiers into battle. And I do NOT criticize him for this. CIF was his job as President, and military experience is NOT a prerequisite to be President. Agree. It's part of the job. And somehow this reminds me of Eisenhower's (another "been there, done that" guy) and his warning about the military-industrial complex. If anybody would know, it would be Ike, I think we'd all have to agree. The increasing privatization of the military and importance of contractors like Halliburton is pretty disturbing for those who remember Ike's warning. Getting back to 2004, this whole Vietnam business is working well for Bush, in that people like us are discussing what happened decades ago, instead of focusing on the future and thinking about what Bush or Kerry will do, once elected. yes, its to Bush's advantage. BTW, Kerry, though he was called to active duty in Viet Nam, enlisted in the Naval Reserves, not the regular Navy. |
#530
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"Lionel" wrote in message ... How to measure the heroism ? For Japaneses during the WWII, kamikazes were heroes. For the Palestinians now, humans-bombs are heroes. By 1944, June 6th, while 9,000 GIs were killed on Normandy beachs 20,000 french civilians were killed by US and British bombing on Rouen, Caen... Who are the real heroes of this day ? Between January and August 1916, on 20 x 4 km square in Verdun 1916 300,000 soldiers Germans and Frenchs have been killed are they 300,000 heroes ? I remember that US army has had 55,000 killed during war in Vietnam but I also remember that there was also 2,000,000 Vietnameses killed during this same war. Who are the heroes ? In Stalingrad who was the hero ? The civilian, the communist, or the German soldier ? During French dirty war in Algeria who was the hero ? The fellagha or the French parachutist ? They have given you a funny subject of discussion and you are discussing... What a country of morons ! our only stupidity is continually bailing out the French. |
#531
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 01:29:52 GMT, MINe 109
wrote: Maybe this guy fulfilled his obligation, but I don't think his term was without problems, despite his being honorably discharged: When you have a well-known daddy in congress with a lineage of political patronage, you are going to be honorably discharged unless you do something truly horrific. |
#532
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
... BTW, I noticed something else about one of the documents that they have NOT been reporting on tv..... Bull. Rush told you what to think and you were off on your way. I doubt that you looked at *any* documents. The document has a typed letterhead for the squadron, three lines long, that is perfectly centered, each of the three lines is perfectly centered. Almost impossible witout a word processor. and it appears to be typed, not a preprinted letterhead. "Perfectly centered ?" Is *that* what they've conned you into parroting ? How is this "perfectly centered ?" It's way off to the right on the paper, and it's a good way off to the right w/respect to the margins. And you actually *looked* at these ? Riiiiight ! http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Se...hGuardDocs.PDF So, was this citation done on a word processor too ? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...s_citation.pdf And this one ? http://www.quanonline.com/military/m...onze_star.html Do you believe everything these neocons tell you ? |
#533
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Clyde Slick wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message ... How to measure the heroism ? For Japaneses during the WWII, kamikazes were heroes. For the Palestinians now, humans-bombs are heroes. By 1944, June 6th, while 9,000 GIs were killed on Normandy beachs 20,000 french civilians were killed by US and British bombing on Rouen, Caen... Who are the real heroes of this day ? Between January and August 1916, on 20 x 4 km square in Verdun 1916 300,000 soldiers Germans and Frenchs have been killed are they 300,000 heroes ? I remember that US army has had 55,000 killed during war in Vietnam but I also remember that there was also 2,000,000 Vietnameses killed during this same war. Who are the heroes ? In Stalingrad who was the hero ? The civilian, the communist, or the German soldier ? During French dirty war in Algeria who was the hero ? The fellagha or the French parachutist ? They have given you a funny subject of discussion and you are discussing... What a country of morons ! our only stupidity is continually bailing out the French. USA *never* bailed out France. 1. In 1944 after heavy bombing and destructions USA came to get the good reconstruction business. 2. The guys in Dien Bien Phu are still waiting for promised US bombings... Final result : more than 10,000 thousand deads. Note that it's a little bit difficult to discuss that with the cowards who has watched, the horrible assassination of 6,000,000 persons of their community comfortably installed, drinking Coca-Cola on the other side of the Atlantic. :-( |
#534
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"Jacob Kramer" wrote in message ... On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:46:21 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: Case in point, to day Kerry is making vaugue comments about not allowing the GOP to keep black voters from making it to the poll as they did in the last election. Of course it never happened in the last election and nobody who investigated it found any evidence of anybody be disallowed from voting other than convicted felons. The United States Commission on Civil Rights in 2001 found widespread disfranchisement, especially among African-Americans. http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm After carefully and fully examining all the evidence, the Commission found a strong basis for concluding that violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (VRA) occurred in Florida. The VRA was enacted in 1965 to enforce the 15th Amendment's proscription against voting discrimination. It is aimed at both subtle and overt state action that has the effect of denying a citizen the right to vote because of his or her race. Although the VRA originally focused on enfranchising African Americans, the law has been amended several times to also include American Indians, Asian Americans, Alaskan Natives, and people of Spanish heritage. Additionally, the VRA includes a provision that recognizes the need for multilingual assistance for non-English speakers. The VRA does not require intent to discriminate. Neither does it require proof of a conspiracy. Violations of the VRA can be established by evidence that the action or inaction of responsible officials and other evidence constitute a "totality of the circumstances" that denied citizens their right to vote. For example, if there are differences in voting procedures and voting technologies and the result of those differences is to advantage white voters and disadvantage minority voters, then the laws, the procedures, and the decisions that produced those results, viewed in the context of social and historical factors, can be discriminatory, and a violation of the VRA. The report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred. Instead, the report concludes that officials ignored the mounting evidence of rising voter registration rates in communities. The state's highest officials responsible for ensuring efficiency, uniformity, and fairness in the election failed to fulfill their responsibilities and were subsequently unwilling to take responsibility. Disenfranchised Voters Disenfranchised voters are individuals who are entitled to vote, want to vote, or attempt to vote, but who are deprived from either voting or having their votes counted. The most dramatic undercount in the Florida election was the uncast ballots of countless eligible voters who were wrongfully turned away from the polls. Statistical data, reinforced by credible anecdotal evidence, point to the widespread denial of voting rights. It is impossible to determine the extent of the disenfranchisement or to provide an adequate remedy to the persons whose voices were silenced by injustice, ineptitude, and inefficiency. However, careful analysis and some reasonable projections illustrate what happened in Florida. The disenfranchisement of Florida's voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of black voters. The magnitude of the impact can be seen from any of several perspectives: * Statewide, based upon county-level statistical estimates, black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than nonblack voters to have their ballots rejected. * Because they punched their ballots incorrectly. Estimates indicate that approximately 14.4 percent of Florida's black voters cast ballots that were rejected. See above. This compares with approximately 1.6 percent of nonblack Florida voters who did not have their presidential votes counted. * Statistical analysis shows that the disparity in ballot spoilage rates-i.e., ballots cast but not counted-between black and nonblack voters is not the result of education or literacy differences. This conclusion is supported by Governor Jeb Bush's Select Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology, which found that error rates stemming from uneducated, uninformed, or disinterested voters account for less than 1 percent of the problems. * Approximately 11 percent of Florida voters were African American; however, African Americans cast about 54 percent of the 180,000 spoiled ballots in Florida during the November 2000 election based on estimates derived from county-level data. These statewide estimates were corroborated by the results in several counties based on actual precinct data. Poor counties, particularly those with large minority populations, were more likely to possess voting systems with higher spoilage rates than the more affluent counties with significant white populations. There is a high correlation between counties and precincts with a high percentage of African American voters and the percentage of spoiled ballots. For example: * Nine of the 10 counties with the highest percentage of African American voters had spoilage rates above the Florida average. * Of the 10 counties with the highest percentage of white voters, only two counties had spoilage rates above the state average. * Gadsden County, with the highest rate of spoiled ballots, also had the highest percentage of African American voters. * Where precinct data were available, the data show that 83 of the 100 precincts with the highest numbers of spoiled ballots are black-majority precincts. The magnitude of the disenfranchisement, including the disparity between black and nonblack voters, is supported by the testimony of witnesses at the Commission's hearings. These witnesses include local election officials, poll workers, ordinary voters, and activists. Among the sworn testimony: * One potential voter waited hours at the polls because of a registration mix-up as poll workers attempted to call the office of the supervisor of elections. The call never got through and the individual was not allowed to vote. A former poll worker herself, she testified that she never saw anything like it during her 18 years as a poll worker. * A poll worker in Miami-Dade County with 15 years of experience testified, "By far this was the worst election I have ever experienced. After that election, I decided I didn't want to work as a clerk anymore." * Probably because the Dems in their zeal to get blacks to vote didn't spend enough effort on teaching them about the various voting machines. A poll worker in Palm Beach County testified that she had to use her personal cell phone to attempt to contact the election supervisor's office. Despite trying all day, she only got through two or three times over the course of 12 hours. * Shocking to think they might be busy that day. A Broward County poll worker testified that in past elections it took about 10 minutes to get through to the elections supervisor. During the course of the November 2000 election, she turned away approximately 40-50 potential voters because she could not access the supervisor of elections. * A Boynton Beach poll worker explained how his precinct workers turned away about 30-50 potential voters because they could not get through to the supervisor of elections. He was successful only once during an eight-hour period. * Other persons testified about waiting in long lines only to be ultimately denied their right to vote. The Commission calls upon the attorney general of the United States to immediately begin the litigation process to determine liability under the VRA [Voting Rights Act] and appropriate remedies. The Commission is a fact-finding body, authorized to investigate allegations of voting discrimination, fraud, and other irregularities. However, it does not adjudicate violations of the law, hold trials, or determine civil or criminal liability. It is within the jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Justice and Florida law enforcement officials to seek appropriate sanctions and remedies. In addition to calling on the attorney general to initiate the litigation process on this issue, the Commission requests this action on a number of other issues as well, such as Florida's handling of its voter roll purge and its failure to accommodate voters with disabilities and limited English proficiency. The Commission recommends that Florida retain knowledgeable experts to undertake a formal study to ascertain the reason for the racial disparities in vote rejection rates between white voters and persons of color. Once this is completed, the state should adopt and publicize procedures to eliminate this disparity. As a start, the state could identify and promote the "best practices" of counties in Florida or around the nation that performed well during the 2000 presidential election. -- Then why did the Attorney General of Florida, a Democrat not find any validity to such claims and IIRC there was less than 10 real complaints that were worth pursuing? Why did Janet Reno not do anything? Why didn't the press find anything? Once again a denial of personal responsibility on the part of the people voting. There was no conspiracy, there was no fraud, there was just a bunch of people who ****ed up their votes. |
#535
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Phil" wrote in message news:NM52d.51822$MQ5.9644@attbi_s52... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Phil" wrote in message news:LwL1d.49728$D%.24659@attbi_s51... The 100% definitive call is not to claim forgery but that isn't a forgery and is on the consideration of handwriting analysis, which is not the issue thus relevant. Arny!!!!! Help me decipher this Krooglish, please. I admit this isn't well written but let me explain. It would help a bit if you hadn't edited the previous post so much. Anyway MINe 109 quoted this: "One problem in making the case of this being a forgery is that the credible experts cited will not make a 100% definitive call without seeing the original. " This has to do with handwriting analysis. You can 100% definitively say the handwriting is authentic unless you have the original, however the statement is reverse. That you can't show forgery without the original. Realize the requirement is to show your right, that the document is authentic. Assumption of forgery can happen if you can't prove authentic of the document thus the 100% isn't needed. The second point was the post was about Boston Global article that MINe 109 used to support his point which proved invalid. This statement was a immaterial to the issue. Phil I give up. "You can 100% definitively say the handwriting is authentic unless you have the original, however the statement is reverse." ????????????????? "Realize the requirement is to show your right, that the document is authentic. Assumption of forgery can happen if you can't prove authentic of the document thus the 100% isn't needed." ??????????? I think somehow this lies in the semantics of the word forgery. There are two possible forgeries. One, the document could be forged. Two, the signature could be forged. It doesn't have to be both, though in this case, it is. However, note that it would be realisitically inexplicable as to how one could have a forged document with the real signature. Cut and paste. Since the forged documents were done with MS Word, no problem. |
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "N" wrote in message om... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "N" wrote in message m... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message k.net... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message . net... (snip) BTW, I noticed something else about one of the documents that they have NOT been reporting on tv. The document has a typed letterhead for the squadron, three lines long, that is perfectly centered, each of the three lines is perfectly centered. Almost impossible witout a word processor. and it appears to be typed, not a preprinted letterhead. I couldn't care less. Bush's military record is already so embarrassing, it must be cheering the Bush camp up to see something embarrassing about his military record that might be discredited. The reason the Bush supporters have attacked Kerry's military record is because Bush's record is so embarrassing. With nothing to brag about, the Bush supporters attack Kerry. So Bush didn't want to go fight an unpopular war in Vietnam; big deal, lots of people didn't want to go, and lots of people found loopholes or managed to dodge the draft back then. Bush is just another "chicken hawk," like Cheney, Gingrich, etc.; they avoided war themselves, but they have no qualms about sending young men to battle. Embarrassing? An honorable discharge and no mention of negative fitness reports equals embarrassing? Acquiring the knowledge and skills required to be a fighter pilot is embarrassing? Embarrassing in four ways: 1. Embarrassing to anyone who was around in that era, because it's obvious draft dodging. Although I'm not 100% against that; almost anyone back then who had connections and the smarts to beat the draft in some way did so. BTW, of the guys I knew then who were eligible for the draft, all but one beat the draft by staying in college, caring for a sick parent, or other deferments that were accepted by draft boards. Of the guys I knew then, only one guy ever really was about to get drafted, and he beat that (sort of) by enlisting in another branch of the service. Beating the draft...deferments...hmmm...sound familiar? Like a lot of national leaders recently? (BTW, I also had to register for the draft back then, but was never drafted. Had I been called up, I probably would've tried to get a deferment and/or avoid Vietnam, just like everyone else.) He elected to serve, with the hope that his NG unit would stay stateside (no guarantee). There is NOTHING wrong with that. 2. Embarrassing compared to Kerry's record. That is not embarrassing (assuming Kerry's record is an honest representation of the truth); its just not as heroic. By your measure, Clinton's record is embarrassing, comparted to Bush. Clinton's record is embarrassing to anyone with a shred of objectivity. 3. Embarrassing because some Bush supporters have attacked Kerry's record, when Bush has nowhere near the experience Kerry had. They have similar expierience with deferments, Kerry got four his 5th was to study in France which was rejected. When it comes to war, Kerry is obviously the "been there, done that" guy, especially compared to Bush. Four 4 whole months, whoopdedoo. One bogus Purple Heart, 2 that he earned. I think most of the attacks are about Kerry's veracity. The arguments are that he embellished things. So, even if he did, his actual service is still an honor to his name, assuming his lack of attention didn't cause needless innocent death in the sampan incident. 4. Embarrassing for Bush and his crowd to be so eager for war and to send young people to fight it and die in it, when avoiding war and military service was obviously so important to our leadership when they were young enough to fight. Seems hypocritical. Everybody with means at the time did their best to keep fromgetting drafted, including Kerry. I will say that he was damn site more ballsy than that dickhead Gore, who had an armed guard with him while he took pictures. William Jefferson Clinton He avoided service through deferments, has no military experience, did not desire to fight in Viet Nam, and he led US soldiers into battle. And I do NOT criticize him for this. CIF was his job as President, and military experience is NOT a prerequisite to be President. He is also quoted from a letter he wrote IIRC to the Selective Service, saying he despised the military. The military definitely suffered under his administration as this was the only are of real cuts during his administration. There was, as I recall a very high attrition rate due to cuts and the fact that many military personnel hated his ****ing guts. To reduce government staff in the White House he replaced civilian help with military people for jobs like waiting tables, etc. |
#537
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"GregP" wrote in message ... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... BTW, I noticed something else about one of the documents that they have NOT been reporting on tv..... Bull. Rush told you what to think and you were off on your way. I doubt that you looked at *any* documents. The document has a typed letterhead for the squadron, three lines long, that is perfectly centered, each of the three lines is perfectly centered. Almost impossible witout a word processor. and it appears to be typed, not a preprinted letterhead. "Perfectly centered ?" Is *that* what they've conned you into parroting ? How is this "perfectly centered ?" It's way off to the right on the paper, and it's a good way off to the right w/respect to the margins. And you actually *looked* at these ? Riiiiight ! No, I actually printed it out and measured it. Because this is a fax of an original, and not done carefuly, you will see that the original page is offset 1/4 inch to the right. And, the margins on the original page are not set equally, form right to left. There is an inch an a half margin on the left (measured as to the edge of the original, not the print out, to account for offset) and only about an inch margin on the right. Measured between the two margins, the header is perfectly centered. This is exactly how a word processor would format it. http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Se...hGuardDocs.PDF So, was this citation done on a word processor too ? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...s_citation.pdf And this one ? http://www.quanonline.com/military/m...onze_star.html Do you believe everything these neocons tell you ? Do you still beieve these are legitimate original documents from 1973? |
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"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message ink.net... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... I think somehow this lies in the semantics of the word forgery. There are two possible forgeries. One, the document could be forged. Two, the signature could be forged. It doesn't have to be both, though in this case, it is. However, note that it would be realisitically inexplicable as to how one could have a forged document with the real signature. Cut and paste. Since the forged documents were done with MS Word, no problem. It's just semantics. I wouldn't consider a cut and paste signature a real signature. |
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On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 06:42:19 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:46:21 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: Case in point, to day Kerry is making vaugue comments about not allowing the GOP to keep black voters from making it to the poll as they did in the last election. Of course it never happened in the last election and nobody who investigated it found any evidence of anybody be disallowed from voting other than convicted felons. The United States Commission on Civil Rights in 2001 found widespread disfranchisement, especially among African-Americans. http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm After carefully and fully examining all the evidence, the Commission found a strong basis for concluding that violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (VRA) occurred in Florida. This is a very clear contradiction of your statement that no one found such disenfranchisement. -- Jacob Kramer |
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"Jacob Kramer" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 06:42:19 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:46:21 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: Case in point, to day Kerry is making vaugue comments about not allowing the GOP to keep black voters from making it to the poll as they did in the last election. Of course it never happened in the last election and nobody who investigated it found any evidence of anybody be disallowed from voting other than convicted felons. The United States Commission on Civil Rights in 2001 found widespread disfranchisement, especially among African-Americans. http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm After carefully and fully examining all the evidence, the Commission found a strong basis for concluding that violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (VRA) occurred in Florida. This is a very clear contradiction of your statement that no one found such disenfranchisement. -- Your splitting hairs. Nobody found anything deliberate which is what the Dems where screaming had happened. Nobody thought there was anything serious enough to make them bring the force of law to bear on. A lot of blather and generalizations that could well apply to California or Massachusetts. |
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"Lionel" wrote in message ... Clyde Slick wrote: "Lionel" wrote in message ... our only stupidity is continually bailing out the French. USA *never* bailed out France. 1. In 1944 after heavy bombing and destructions USA came to get the good reconstruction business. 2. The guys in Dien Bien Phu are still waiting for promised US bombings... Final result : more than 10,000 thousand deads. Are you proud of post WWII French colonialism? Note that it's a little bit difficult to discuss that with the cowards who has watched, the horrible assassination of 6,000,000 persons of their community Lionel is very correct. With the benefit of hind-sight, only a fool could think the liberation of France was worth the cost. I call on Lionel to remind everyone of this anytime that France is threatened. It is a country that is not worth a single life to maintain. ScottW |
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ScottW wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message ... Clyde Slick wrote: "Lionel" wrote in message .. . our only stupidity is continually bailing out the French. USA *never* bailed out France. 1. In 1944 after heavy bombing and destructions USA came to get the good reconstruction business. 2. The guys in Dien Bien Phu are still waiting for promised US bombings... Final result : more than 10,000 thousand deads. Are you proud of post WWII French colonialism? Note that it's a little bit difficult to discuss that with the cowards who has watched, the horrible assassination of 6,000,000 persons of their community Lionel is very correct. With the benefit of hind-sight, only a fool could think the liberation of France was worth the cost. In 1944 USA were so *scary* by socialist that they would have not hesited to NUKE the French territory. In the end US industry have won a lot of money in this military action... While Paris was threatened of destruction US army learders were answering "Paris is not a priority" !!! With the *GIs* who have courageously fought and lost their life on Normandie's beach there are only few Americans politics that should be thanked for French liberation : Roosevelt... I call on Lionel to remind everyone of this anytime that France is threatened. It is a country that is not worth a single life to maintain. If you are speaking of *YOUR* life Scott, you are right. We don't want of your stinking body, keep it for the unfruitful Californian desert. :-) ScottW |
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"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message ink.net... "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 06:42:19 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:46:21 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: Case in point, to day Kerry is making vaugue comments about not allowing the GOP to keep black voters from making it to the poll as they did in the last election. Of course it never happened in the last election and nobody who investigated it found any evidence of anybody be disallowed from voting other than convicted felons. The United States Commission on Civil Rights in 2001 found widespread disfranchisement, especially among African-Americans. http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm After carefully and fully examining all the evidence, the Commission found a strong basis for concluding that violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (VRA) occurred in Florida. This is a very clear contradiction of your statement that no one found such disenfranchisement. -- Your splitting hairs. Nobody found anything deliberate which is what the Dems where screaming had happened. Nobody thought there was anything serious enough to make them bring the force of law to bear on. A lot of blather and generalizations that could well apply to California or Massachusetts. At any rate, remember that it was the Democrats who were in control of the local election boards and election and vote counting processes, in the heavily black populated counties Jacov was complaining about. |
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"Lionel" wrote in message ... ScottW wrote: "Lionel" wrote in message ... Clyde Slick wrote: "Lionel" wrote in message . .. our only stupidity is continually bailing out the French. USA *never* bailed out France. 1. In 1944 after heavy bombing and destructions USA came to get the good reconstruction business. 2. The guys in Dien Bien Phu are still waiting for promised US bombings... Final result : more than 10,000 thousand deads. Are you proud of post WWII French colonialism? Note that it's a little bit difficult to discuss that with the cowards who has watched, the horrible assassination of 6,000,000 persons of their community Lionel is very correct. With the benefit of hind-sight, only a fool could think the liberation of France was worth the cost. In 1944 USA were so *scary* by socialist that they would have not hesited to NUKE the French territory. In the end US industry have won a lot of money in this military action... While Paris was threatened of destruction US army learders were answering "Paris is not a priority" !!! What is Paris today.... with its sprawling slums of muslims? A city with a bleak future growing bleaker by the year just like your country. ScottW |
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On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:16:02 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 06:42:19 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message ... On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:46:21 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: Case in point, to day Kerry is making vaugue comments about not allowing the GOP to keep black voters from making it to the poll as they did in the last election. Of course it never happened in the last election and nobody who investigated it found any evidence of anybody be disallowed from voting other than convicted felons. The United States Commission on Civil Rights in 2001 found widespread disfranchisement, especially among African-Americans. http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm After carefully and fully examining all the evidence, the Commission found a strong basis for concluding that violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (VRA) occurred in Florida. This is a very clear contradiction of your statement that no one found such disenfranchisement. -- Your splitting hairs. Nobody found anything deliberate which is what the Dems where screaming had happened. Nobody thought there was anything serious enough to make them bring the force of law to bear on. You made a statement of fact--that no one had found widespread disenfranchisement--that is false. Were you aware of the findings of this commission? The findings in fact formed the basis for the overhaul of electoral machinery in Florida via the Florida Electoral Reform Act of 2001, as well as other legislative remedies and litigation: http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/sum0802.htm A lot of blather and generalizations that could well apply to California or Massachusetts. There may well have been important voting problems in other states, but the specific findings of report on Florida did not apply to either of those states. You can learn about the 2000 vote and the subsequent reform efforts he http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/main.htm The site for the commission is: http://www.usccr.gov/ -- Jacob Kramer |
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ScottW wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message ... ScottW wrote: "Lionel" wrote in message .. . Clyde Slick wrote: "Lionel" wrote in message .. . our only stupidity is continually bailing out the French. USA *never* bailed out France. 1. In 1944 after heavy bombing and destructions USA came to get the good reconstruction business. 2. The guys in Dien Bien Phu are still waiting for promised US bombings... Final result : more than 10,000 thousand deads. Are you proud of post WWII French colonialism? Note that it's a little bit difficult to discuss that with the cowards who has watched, the horrible assassination of 6,000,000 persons of their community Lionel is very correct. With the benefit of hind-sight, only a fool could think the liberation of France was worth the cost. In 1944 USA were so *scary* by socialist that they would have not hesited to NUKE the French territory. In the end US industry have won a lot of money in this military action... While Paris was threatened of destruction US army learders were answering "Paris is not a priority" !!! What is Paris today.... When was the last time that you visit us, Scott ? with its sprawling slums of muslims? A city with a bleak future growing bleaker by the year just like your country. Scott, you shoudn't let your primal racism and xenophobia take the control of your emotions. You are obviously suffering of the American syndrom, this inferiority complex which makes an ass of yourself. I can understand a little bit of chauvinism, a little bit of national preference but your nationalist comments are disgusting. :-( You should focus on music and HiFi. |
#547
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"Lionel" wrote in message ... ScottW wrote: "Paris is not a priority" !!! What is Paris today.... When was the last time that you visit us, Scott ? Do I need to go there for you to accept the decline of your crown jewel of cities? with its sprawling slums of muslims? A city with a bleak future growing bleaker by the year just like your country. Scott, you shoudn't let your primal racism and xenophobia take the control of your emotions. I see, you think slums are an improvement. Perhaps they are. You are obviously suffering of the American syndrom, this inferiority complex which makes an ass of yourself. I can understand a little bit of chauvinism, a little bit of national preference but your nationalist comments are disgusting. :-( The truth is often painful. I understand your disgust but the blame is misplaced. America is not responsible for the plight your nation is in. ScottW |
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message ink.net... "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 06:42:19 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:46:21 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: Case in point, to day Kerry is making vaugue comments about not allowing the GOP to keep black voters from making it to the poll as they did in the last election. Of course it never happened in the last election and nobody who investigated it found any evidence of anybody be disallowed from voting other than convicted felons. The United States Commission on Civil Rights in 2001 found widespread disfranchisement, especially among African-Americans. http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm After carefully and fully examining all the evidence, the Commission found a strong basis for concluding that violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (VRA) occurred in Florida. This is a very clear contradiction of your statement that no one found such disenfranchisement. -- Your splitting hairs. Nobody found anything deliberate which is what the Dems where screaming had happened. Nobody thought there was anything serious enough to make them bring the force of law to bear on. A lot of blather and generalizations that could well apply to California or Massachusetts. At any rate, remember that it was the Democrats who were in control of the local election boards and election and vote counting processes, in the heavily black populated counties Jacov was complaining about. It's been said so many times before, if he didn't already know it he's been avoiding knowing it. |
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"Jacob Kramer" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:16:02 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 06:42:19 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message m... On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:46:21 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: Case in point, to day Kerry is making vaugue comments about not allowing the GOP to keep black voters from making it to the poll as they did in the last election. Of course it never happened in the last election and nobody who investigated it found any evidence of anybody be disallowed from voting other than convicted felons. The United States Commission on Civil Rights in 2001 found widespread disfranchisement, especially among African-Americans. http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm After carefully and fully examining all the evidence, the Commission found a strong basis for concluding that violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (VRA) occurred in Florida. This is a very clear contradiction of your statement that no one found such disenfranchisement. -- Your splitting hairs. Nobody found anything deliberate which is what the Dems where screaming had happened. Nobody thought there was anything serious enough to make them bring the force of law to bear on. You made a statement of fact--that no one had found widespread disenfranchisement--that is false. Were you aware of the findings of this commission? Excuse the **** out of me, I thought we were talking about the generally know accusations made by the Dems about Florida. No I was not aware of these findings but they don't really mean much IMO. There was no conspriacy to keep Blacks from voting in Florida and none of the accusations made by the Dems that were reported in the press turned out to be true, which is par for the course. The findings in fact formed the basis for the overhaul of electoral machinery in Florida via the Florida Electoral Reform Act of 2001, as well as other legislative remedies and litigation: http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/sum0802.htm Florida election law was a definite cluster **** of non-standards. It's the only good thing to come out of all the ****ing and moaning by the Dems. A lot of blather and generalizations that could well apply to California or Massachusetts. There may well have been important voting problems in other states, but the specific findings of report on Florida did not apply to either of those states. Did they study any place else? You're aware that if the next election is close the Dems are already laying the groundwork to make the same bull**** claims again. You can learn about the 2000 vote and the subsequent reform efforts he http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/main.htm The site for the commission is: http://www.usccr.gov/ -- Jacob Kramer |
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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:24:39 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:16:02 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: You made a statement of fact--that no one had found widespread disenfranchisement--that is false. Were you aware of the findings of this commission? Excuse the **** out of me, I thought we were talking about the generally know accusations made by the Dems about Florida. No I was not aware of these findings That will do. This is the closest thing to an admission of error you are likely to give. |
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On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:10:36 -0700, "ScottW"
wrote: "Lionel" wrote in message ... ScottW wrote: "Paris is not a priority" !!! What is Paris today.... When was the last time that you visit us, Scott ? Do I need to go there for you to accept the decline of your crown jewel of cities? Have you ever been to Paris? |
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"Jacob Kramer" wrote in message ... On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:24:39 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: "Jacob Kramer" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:16:02 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" wrote: You made a statement of fact--that no one had found widespread disenfranchisement--that is false. Were you aware of the findings of this commission? Excuse the **** out of me, I thought we were talking about the generally know accusations made by the Dems about Florida. No I was not aware of these findings That will do. This is the closest thing to an admission of error you are likely to give. Evasion of my original point, noted. |
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ScottW wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message ... ScottW wrote: "Paris is not a priority" !!! What is Paris today.... When was the last time that you visit us, Scott ? Do I need to go there for you to accept the decline of your crown jewel of cities? with its sprawling slums of muslims? A city with a bleak future growing bleaker by the year just like your country. Scott, you shoudn't let your primal racism and xenophobia take the control of your emotions. I see, you think slums are an improvement. Perhaps they are. You are obviously suffering of the American syndrom, this inferiority complex which makes an ass of yourself. I can understand a little bit of chauvinism, a little bit of national preference but your nationalist comments are disgusting. :-( The truth is often painful. I understand your disgust but the blame is misplaced. America is not responsible for the plight your nation is in. ScottW |
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ScottW wrote:
The truth is often painful. I understand your disgust but the blame is misplaced. America is not responsible for the plight your nation is in. Scott, do you know that in America about 30% of the population is overweighted ? Do you know that 60% of these 30% are seriously obese ? Do you know that American consume nearly more insulin than oil ? ;-) I don't really know what you mean by "plight" but I guess that all this excess of fat is an interesting challenge for your leaders. :-) |
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"Lionel" wrote in message ... ScottW wrote: The truth is often painful. I understand your disgust but the blame is misplaced. America is not responsible for the plight your nation is in. (snipped a bunch of jibberish) So we're fat, but your nation is losing its heritage and culture, and we can diet. ScottW |
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"Jacob Kramer" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:10:36 -0700, "ScottW" wrote: "Lionel" wrote in message ... ScottW wrote: "Paris is not a priority" !!! What is Paris today.... When was the last time that you visit us, Scott ? Do I need to go there for you to accept the decline of your crown jewel of cities? Have you ever been to Paris? Have you ever been to Baghdad? |
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Art wrote:
"Jacob Kramer" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:10:36 -0700, "ScottW" wrote: "Lionel" wrote in message ... ScottW wrote: "Paris is not a priority" !!! What is Paris today.... When was the last time that you visit us, Scott ? Do I need to go there for you to accept the decline of your crown jewel of cities? Have you ever been to Paris? Have you ever been to Baghdad? "Well I never been to Spain But I kinda like the music" (Three Dog Night) Bruce J. Richman |