[Phil M]

Hi all, I'm about to digitize a second set of audio cassettes used for audio
slides in the 70's. I'm using a TASCAM 112MKII cassette deck. The problem
is that half way through the heads and the transport mechanism gets clogged
with what appears to be tape residue. Although the recording is mono, at
first, I loose one channel, and then the sound gets muffled.
After some research, I found that this is called the "sticky tape syndrome"
or "Sticky-Shed" Syndrome" a pretty common problem for tapes made in the 70's
but the cure, which involves baking the tape in an oven at 130°F, appears to
be only applicable for reels. What about audio cassettes? Any cure? What I
do now is play digitize the audio for 10 minutes, stop, clean the
heads/transport, and repeat the pattern!
I also read that baking a tape might result in increased crosstalk, in these
audio cassettes, I already hear a slight crosstalk, I don't look forward in
make it worst.
Thanks.

[Carey Carlan]

"Phil M" wrote in
:

Hi all, I'm about to digitize a second set of audio cassettes used for
audio slides in the 70's. I'm using a TASCAM 112MKII cassette deck.
The problem is that half way through the heads and the transport
mechanism gets clogged with what appears to be tape residue. Although
the recording is mono, at first, I loose one channel, and then the
sound gets muffled. After some research, I found that this is called
the "sticky tape syndrome" or "Sticky-Shed" Syndrome" a pretty common
problem for tapes made in the 70's but the cure, which involves baking
the tape in an oven at 130°F, appears to be only applicable for reels.
What about audio cassettes? Any cure? What I do now is play digitize
the audio for 10 minutes, stop, clean the heads/transport, and repeat
the pattern! I also read that baking a tape might result in increased
crosstalk, in these audio cassettes, I already hear a slight
crosstalk, I don't look forward in make it worst.
Thanks.

Let me pass on words from smarter people than I.

The heat applied to the cassette during the baking should not audibly
increase the crosstalk.

An alternative solution is to wrap the cassette and a desiccant
(something to absorb water, the "do not eat" packets) in an airtight
container (a couple of nested freezer bags will do) and place it in your
refrigerator for a month.

I have a reel tape in the refrigerator now that was beyond baking. The
cold pack, as this is called, should work as well or better than baking.
It also works on tapes with oxide separating from the tape. It just
takes a month longer to finish.

[[email protected]]

If what you have is really sticky-shed (and it sounds like it),
baking is likely to help. Here is a webpage that helped me:

http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

Scott

Phil M wrote:
: Hi all, I'm about to digitize a second set of audio cassettes used for audio
: slides in the 70's. I'm using a TASCAM 112MKII cassette deck. The problem
: is that half way through the heads and the transport mechanism gets clogged
: with what appears to be tape residue. Although the recording is mono, at
: first, I loose one channel, and then the sound gets muffled.
: After some research, I found that this is called the "sticky tape syndrome"
: or "Sticky-Shed" Syndrome" a pretty common problem for tapes made in the 70's
: but the cure, which involves baking the tape in an oven at 130?F, appears to
: be only applicable for reels. What about audio cassettes? Any cure? What I
: do now is play digitize the audio for 10 minutes, stop, clean the
: heads/transport, and repeat the pattern!
: I also read that baking a tape might result in increased crosstalk, in these
: audio cassettes, I already hear a slight crosstalk, I don't look forward in
: make it worst.
: Thanks.

[DC]

I've never seen it with a cassette. I have lots and lots of Ampex 1/4"
tape with the problem, however.

[Scott Dorsey]

Phil M wrote:
Hi all, I'm about to digitize a second set of audio cassettes used for audio
slides in the 70's. I'm using a TASCAM 112MKII cassette deck. The problem
is that half way through the heads and the transport mechanism gets clogged
with what appears to be tape residue. Although the recording is mono, at
first, I loose one channel, and then the sound gets muffled.

What kind of tape is it?

After some research, I found that this is called the "sticky tape syndrome"
or "Sticky-Shed" Syndrome" a pretty common problem for tapes made in the 70's
but the cure, which involves baking the tape in an oven at 130°F, appears to
be only applicable for reels. What about audio cassettes? Any cure? What I
do now is play digitize the audio for 10 minutes, stop, clean the
heads/transport, and repeat the pattern!

THIS IS NOT STICKY SHED. Sticky shed does not happen to cassettes. You
have a loss of lubricant issue. Baking will not help.

What kind of tape is it?

I strongly recommend reading Richard Hess' recent conference paper on the
subject of tape failure modes.

Lubrication may help, as may cleaning. But getting ten minutes at a pop
doesn't sound too bad either. I'd first get some Pelon cloth and fast
forward and rewind the tape over it a couple times and remove the worst of
the debris.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Carey Carlan]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

THIS IS NOT STICKY SHED. Sticky shed does not happen to cassettes.
You have a loss of lubricant issue. Baking will not help.

Why wouldn't sticky shed happen to cassettes? Are not my Grandmaster
cassettes recorded on half mil 456?

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
If what you have is really sticky-shed (and it sounds like it),
baking is likely to help. Here is a webpage that helped me:

http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

Scott

It is not sticky shed. Backcoated tapes have sticky shed. Cassettes
do not have sticky shed.

If the stuff coming off the heads is white and gummy, it's a sticky shed
issue. If it's brown and dry, it is not.

If you are getting muffled sound, the head gap is clogging up with dry
oxide. If you had sticky shed, the tape would get slower and slower and
stop, as the gum stuck the tape to the head.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Carey Carlan wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

THIS IS NOT STICKY SHED. Sticky shed does not happen to cassettes.
You have a loss of lubricant issue. Baking will not help.

Why wouldn't sticky shed happen to cassettes? Are not my Grandmaster
cassettes recorded on half mil 456?

The coating is similar but not the same. But it's true that if I ever
did expect to see SSS on cassettes, it would be on those things. According
to Hess' survey, though, it hasn't been seen yet.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[DC]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

THIS IS NOT STICKY SHED. Sticky shed does not happen to cassettes.
You have a loss of lubricant issue. Baking will not help.

Why wouldn't sticky shed happen to cassettes? Are not my Grandmaster
cassettes recorded on half mil 456?


The coating is similar but not the same. But it's true that if I ever
did expect to see SSS on cassettes, it would be on those things. According
to Hess' survey, though, it hasn't been seen yet.

It's an honor to have my "shot in the dark" post backed up by Scott.

8 )

[[email protected]]

Several of my late-70s/early-80s Ampex cassettes behave like
sticky shed... they slow down, squeal, and stop. Are you sure
it's not sticky shed?

Scott Dorsey wrote:
: Carey Carlan wrote:
: (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
: :
:
: THIS IS NOT STICKY SHED. Sticky shed does not happen to cassettes.
: You have a loss of lubricant issue. Baking will not help.
:
: Why wouldn't sticky shed happen to cassettes? Are not my Grandmaster
: cassettes recorded on half mil 456?

: The coating is similar but not the same. But it's true that if I ever
: did expect to see SSS on cassettes, it would be on those things. According
: to Hess' survey, though, it hasn't been seen yet.
: --scott
: --
: "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
Several of my late-70s/early-80s Ampex cassettes behave like
sticky shed... they slow down, squeal, and stop. Are you sure
it's not sticky shed?

I'm not sure, but I have never seen that, and neither has Richard Hess'
survey. If you have cassettes with sticky shed, I bet he'd like to see them.

Again, if the stuff on the heads is white, it's a good chance you have
sticky shed, but if it's brown and flaky, it's a different shedding issue.

I'm not saying it can't happen with cassettes, only that I have never seen
it and Hess' survey never caught any, and between the two we have seen a whole
lot of cassettes. It would require cassettes made with a urethane binder,
which to my knowledge never existed.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Phil M]

What kind of tape is it?

The tape inside the audio cassette shell is unknown. The audio cassettes
are FAA recordings from the mid to late 70's and are the product of a
professional duplication facility. What bulk cassette duplicators were
using these days? The cassettes contain a voice track designed to playback
and trigger a DuKane filmstrip slide projector.

Here's a photo of the heads of just after 20 minutes of playback:

http://s135598769.onlinehome.us/heads.jpg

Notice the brown residue that has accreted between the heads as well as on
the rubber pinch roller and on metal capstan on the right.

No, there's no slowdown nor the deck will stop. Only when the brown residue
accumulates on the heads, loss of audio will occur. Since its not sticky
head syndrome or SSS, what is it? Is there any remedy for this? Thanks.

[Scott Dorsey]

Phil M wrote:
What kind of tape is it?

The tape inside the audio cassette shell is unknown. The audio cassettes
are FAA recordings from the mid to late 70's and are the product of a
professional duplication facility. What bulk cassette duplicators were
using these days? The cassettes contain a voice track designed to playback
and trigger a DuKane filmstrip slide projector.

What they were using was the cheapest material possible. Try the Pelon trick.

Here's a photo of the heads of just after 20 minutes of playback:

http://s135598769.onlinehome.us/heads.jpg

Notice the brown residue that has accreted between the heads as well as on
the rubber pinch roller and on metal capstan on the right.

Yes, that's about normal for shedding cassettes.

No, there's no slowdown nor the deck will stop. Only when the brown residue
accumulates on the heads, loss of audio will occur. Since its not sticky
head syndrome or SSS, what is it? Is there any remedy for this? Thanks.

It's loss of lubricant. Try using the Pelon, try using a head lubricant
(either the Xerox silicone grease or the Last Tape Head Treatment are fine),
and see what happens.

You'll almost certainly still have to stop and clean heads periodically,
but if you can run for ten minutes without cleaning heads, you are doing
pretty well.

Again, Hess' paper describes the breakdown mechanism pretty well. I do
not have a preprint number, but he presented it at the recent AES show in
San Francisco.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

I have some 70's cassettes, too, that I need to digitize.

So am I understanding this correctly? There was a
lubricant on the tape that has dried up and now
parts of the tape are flaking off?

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
I have some 70's cassettes, too, that I need to digitize.

So am I understanding this correctly? There was a
lubricant on the tape that has dried up and now
parts of the tape are flaking off?

That is one of the many dozens of things that can happen to cassettes, yes.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Phil M]

On the issue, I found that it's called: "Oxyde Shedding"
mid-page: http://www.videointerchange.com/tape.htm
Note the photo of a cassette in an avanced shedding stage.

"The effects of hydrolysis over great enough period of time, will cause
weakening of the binder layer to the point where de-lamination from the
substrate occurs. The problem often manifests itself by almost instant head
clogs every few seconds, as the least disturbance of the weakened binder by
the rotating scanner video heads results in a shedding of the oxide. In
severe cases (especially where the tape has been exposed to water & not
properly immediately treated), the oxide literally falls off the substrate,
making for a horrific mess.

Oxide shedding is a serious problem, as there is no known technique for
repairing the malady (at least without destroying the recording in the
process). However, tape baking can make it's effects less pronounced (only
if caught in the very early stages before separation is visually evident) by
reducing the stickiness and subsequent drag on the tape. Tape re-lubing can
also often get a tape with a weakened binder layer to play without shedding
off the oxide, just long enough for the transfer to be made.

Tapes exhibiting signs of oxide shedding should never be burnished. The
binder layer on these tapes is extremely fragile and the least amount of
force can tear it free. This is a case where often the cure is much worse
than the ill.

Once a tape exhibits oxide literally falling off the substrate in either
flakes or strips, it's sadly far too late..."

....so I better off digitize ASAP these 40+ cassettes before part of this
aviation heritage becomes real history... what bothers me is that not even
the Feds have managed to save the originals or copies somewhere. The many
calls I placed to the FAA's A/V dept. in the hopes to borrow at least 1/4"
dupes, they totally ignored the existence of such recordings due to the fact
they took over from the Federal Aviation Agency to become the Federal
Aviation Administration. Sad.

[Edwin Hurwitz]

I have this problem with my Ampex cassettes as well. It really ****es me
off as a stereo store dude sold me on the (it's Ampex, what the pros
use!) and these are the only cassettes that have gone south that I own,
and of course, they are the masters of live shows of people like Mike
Stern and Bill Evans. Scott very kindly sent me a little jar of silicon
which I used to lubricate the tape (thanks again, Scott!), but to no
avail. If anyone has any further ideas on how to deal with this, I would
love to know. Only the Ampex cassettes that I have sport this special
quality.

Edwin



In article ,
wrote:

Several of my late-70s/early-80s Ampex cassettes behave like
sticky shed... they slow down, squeal, and stop. Are you sure
it's not sticky shed?

Scott Dorsey wrote:
: Carey Carlan wrote:
: (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
: :
:
: THIS IS NOT STICKY SHED. Sticky shed does not happen to cassettes.
: You have a loss of lubricant issue. Baking will not help.
:
: Why wouldn't sticky shed happen to cassettes? Are not my Grandmaster
: cassettes recorded on half mil 456?

: The coating is similar but not the same. But it's true that if I ever
: did expect to see SSS on cassettes, it would be on those things. According
: to Hess' survey, though, it hasn't been seen yet.
: --scott
: --
: "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."