NI!

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"shiva" wrote in message
...


You just keep thinkin' that. My toobs are so black they've got an event
horizon...

"Shiva" wrote in message
...

Gregg wrote:

Behold, Shiva scribbled:

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:14:30 -0700, "David Axt"
wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Yes.

They're so ... *BLACK*. If you listen to mainly black preformers, go
with the black plates. If you wwish to be open to any kind of musick,
then gray plates are the way to go. If you listen primarily to white
music, then the silver plates are the one to get.

LOL! Amusingly put fellow honky ;-)

If the plates turn red, then its Red Indian music.

Patrick Turner.



--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*

"Choky" wrote in message
...
NI!

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


All right, you esky fer'ner! AMERICAN PEOPLE are patient people, but our
patience has come to an end. Now we're goin' to liberate your heathen
asses, and bring you so much democracy you'll never walk straight again!
-dim (the voice of the AMERICAN PEOPLE)

"shiva" wrote in message
...


You just keep thinkin' that. My toobs are so black they've got an event
horizon...

"Shiva" wrote in message
...

The Larch.

(or-"stopwiddcraporIwillgivyaperestrojkaandya'llsuffer fromgrowthofstandard
)")

oror "talkSerbiansoallworldcanunderstandya!"

hehe

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"Shiva" wrote in message
news

"Choky" wrote in message
...
NI!

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


All right, you esky fer'ner! AMERICAN PEOPLE are patient people, but our
patience has come to an end. Now we're goin' to liberate your heathen
asses, and bring you so much democracy you'll never walk straight again!
-dim (the voice of the AMERICAN PEOPLE)

"shiva" wrote in message
...


You just keep thinkin' that. My toobs are so black they've got an
event
horizon...

"Shiva" wrote in message
...

In the 'oughts, the new black is ....black!

Fred Nachbaur wrote:

Black cabinets for VCRs and DVD players seems to be the style nowadays.
Nevermind
that my mom cannot see the labels for the panel buttons on them.....

I know, isn't that dumb? Thankfully, there are signs that the
silver-front look seems to be making a comeback.(Thank goodness! I've
been waiting for 20 years!) For instance, I just got my wife a new
silver-box DVD player.

But why do they have to use that ugly alu-look plastic. If you want
aluminium use the real thing... I much prefer NAD-grey plastic to the
"modern" stuff.

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


Shiva wrote:
"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


David Axt wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

Better for what? I could probably be argued that they're better for heat
dissipation, but even that would probably be very minor.

Some people can claim to hear a difference, but I wonder how much this
hearing acuity would be reduced if they couldn't see which colour plate
was in there at any given listening session.

Cheers,
Fred



All Plates are gray at night...

Not so! The really good ones are red! ;-)

And the 8realy realy* good ones are no longer with us...


Cheers,
Fred

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...
Use a push-pull amp, black-plate in-phase and silver-plate out-of-phase.

Or was it the other way around ???


Yeah, you're partially right. (noticing that "sPoNiX" uses
News.CIS.DFN.DE - a really nice free news server, or at least, used to
be...)
-dim
Cheers,
Fred


David Axt wrote:
I listen to Tower of Power, they have both negro and honky musicians.
Now
what do I do? ;-)

DA


"Shiva" wrote in message
...

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:14:30 -0700, "David Axt"
wrote:


Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Yes.

They're so ... *BLACK*. If you listen to mainly black preformers, go
with
the black plates. If you wwish to be open to any kind of musick, then

gray

plates are the way to go. If you listen primarily to white music, then

the

silver plates are the one to get.

"Casino" wrote in message
om...
Aren't some of the Chinese KT-88's, 2A3's and others built using black
plates for anodes?

C.W.

Sure are...as their KT66's & other 'retro" types...

"Rich Sherman" wrote in message
. ..
Black plate tubes and Grey plate tubes sound 'different' whether better
of
worse depends on the particular application and personal taste of the
listener..

"David Axt" wrote in message
...
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

"Choky" wrote in message
...
The Larch.


(or-"stopwiddcraporIwillgivyaperestrojkaandya'llsuffer fromgrowthofstandard
)")

oror "talkSerbiansoallworldcanunderstandya!"

hehe

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


You have to point me to the autotranslator that does Serbian... Anyhow ,
The American People are goin' to give you another chance - Just 'coz we
think N. tesla was a weird critter....

"Shiva" wrote in message
news

"Choky" wrote in message
...
NI!

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


All right, you esky fer'ner! AMERICAN PEOPLE are patient people, but
our
patience has come to an end. Now we're goin' to liberate your heathen
asses, and bring you so much democracy you'll never walk straight again!
-dim (the voice of the AMERICAN PEOPLE)

"shiva" wrote in message
...


You just keep thinkin' that. My toobs are so black they've got an
event
horizon...

"Shiva" wrote in message
...

PING!


--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"Shiva" wrote in message
...



You have to point me to the autotranslator that does Serbian... Anyhow ,
The American People are goin' to give you another chance - Just 'coz we
think N. tesla was a weird critter....

"Shiva" wrote in message
news

"Shiva" wrote in message
...
fc'n snipped

Ever hand-pick through your "pulls" collection to find the right tubes for
a
[guitar] amp? I have a pair of clear-top RCA's from a Silvertone 9labled
Silvertone) which sound super-smooth in every amp I've tried them.
Measure
real weak, and behave more like 6V6's. Other old black-plate RCA's are
the
same way - weak as ____, but have a great sound. BTW, i have a
(basically)
slavish copy of a fend. twin, AFA output stage is concerned, with one
diff:
i'm running 2 6L6's, and 2 *mixed-bias, 100Ohm bypassed* 6v6's - wound up
doing that 'cos the "hot" chan. sounded like trash. Ever tried using 2
different OT tubes for each side of a PP circuit? Has anyone? I think
my
setup sounds neat - the clean chan. doesn't have the same headroom, and
looses that fender 'glassiness" a bit, but, even on the clean chan, the
thing starts compressin' real early, and then sounds like a deluxe on
steroids (to abuse the cliche). If this has been done, especially in HiFi
amps, could you point me to some schematics?
-dim



will try tonight to scan article from SP

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


Mikkel C. Simonsen wrote:
Fred Nachbaur wrote:

Black cabinets for VCRs and DVD players seems to be the style nowadays.
Nevermind
that my mom cannot see the labels for the panel buttons on them.....

I know, isn't that dumb? Thankfully, there are signs that the
silver-front look seems to be making a comeback.(Thank goodness! I've
been waiting for 20 years!) For instance, I just got my wife a new
silver-box DVD player.


But why do they have to use that ugly alu-look plastic. If you want
aluminium use the real thing... I much prefer NAD-grey plastic to the
"modern" stuff.

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

Well, yes. That's the thing, it always comes down to those "beans." I
suppose that the move towards the black look was driven more by
marketing pressure than by consumer preference, simply because it's a
lot easier to make a black front that looks good. Brushed aluminum is
expensive both from a materials and labour standpoint, it's also heavier
and therefore increases shipping costs.

I agree, the NAD-grey or charcoal can look quite nice, and seems to be
easier to read lettering on. But brushed aluminum is still the
classiest. ;-)

Cheers,
Fred


Fred, anodized black aluminum is still "brushed aluminum", it's just
anodized with a black die. I'm a big fan of the short-lived "pink"
anodized aluminum faceplates...

Shiva wrote:
"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


Mikkel C. Simonsen wrote:

Fred Nachbaur wrote:


Black cabinets for VCRs and DVD players seems to be the style nowadays.
Nevermind
that my mom cannot see the labels for the panel buttons on them.....

I know, isn't that dumb? Thankfully, there are signs that the
silver-front look seems to be making a comeback.(Thank goodness! I've
been waiting for 20 years!) For instance, I just got my wife a new
silver-box DVD player.


But why do they have to use that ugly alu-look plastic. If you want
aluminium use the real thing... I much prefer NAD-grey plastic to the
"modern" stuff.

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

Well, yes. That's the thing, it always comes down to those "beans." I
suppose that the move towards the black look was driven more by
marketing pressure than by consumer preference, simply because it's a
lot easier to make a black front that looks good. Brushed aluminum is
expensive both from a materials and labour standpoint, it's also heavier
and therefore increases shipping costs.

I agree, the NAD-grey or charcoal can look quite nice, and seems to be
easier to read lettering on. But brushed aluminum is still the
classiest. ;-)

Cheers,
Fred



Fred, anodized black aluminum is still "brushed aluminum", it's just
anodized with a black die.

True. And I don't much care for it even if it's real. But it's easier to
fake halfway realistically using black plastic, than it is to fake other
colors of anodized aluminum.

I'm a big fan of the short-lived "pink"
anodized aluminum faceplates...

LOL! Good thing it was short-lived!

I rather like gold anodizing, like on the chassis he

http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/...s/am-tx2-1.jpg

(Yeah, I know. The chassis is nice, the rest of it's ugly.)

Cheers,
Fred

Shiva wrote:

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


Shiva wrote:


......



I rather like gold anodizing, like on the chassis he

http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/...s/am-tx2-1.jpg

(Yeah, I know. The chassis is nice, the rest of it's ugly.)

Cheers,
Fred

What is it, Fred? My firt guess would be a Teramin, knowin' you...

I reckon if its not Thera Min, I think its Oscar Laitor,
but more likely the former, since I see Ah Reff Coil, and Cryst All,
and Aud Io, and the Anne Tenna is just missin.

Patrick Turner.

Shiva wrote:
[...]
I'm a big fan of the short-lived "pink"
anodized aluminum faceplates...

LOL! Good thing it was short-lived!

I rather like gold anodizing, like on the chassis he

http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/...s/am-tx2-1.jpg

(Yeah, I know. The chassis is nice, the rest of it's ugly.)

Cheers,
Fred


What is it, Fred? My firt guess would be a Teramin, knowin' you...

That would be a good first guess. But actually it's a low-power AM
transmitter. It's the "fanciest" of three circuits I mucked about with
recently, but haven't gotten around to documenting and putting up on the
ol' website yet.

I did manage to put up the schematic, though, it's at
http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/graphics/AM-tx2.gif

Cheers,
Fred

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Shiva wrote:

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


Shiva wrote:


.....



I rather like gold anodizing, like on the chassis he

http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/...s/am-tx2-1.jpg

(Yeah, I know. The chassis is nice, the rest of it's ugly.)

Cheers,
Fred

What is it, Fred? My firt guess would be a Teramin, knowin' you...

I reckon if its not Thera Min, I think its Oscar Laitor,
but more likely the former, since I see Ah Reff Coil, and Cryst All,
and Aud Io, and the Anne Tenna is just missin.

Patrick Turner.

We be good guessers, us. Hope Fred's not mean enough to prove us wrong....
-dim

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


Shiva wrote:
[...]
I'm a big fan of the short-lived "pink"
anodized aluminum faceplates...

LOL! Good thing it was short-lived!

I rather like gold anodizing, like on the chassis he

http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/...s/am-tx2-1.jpg

(Yeah, I know. The chassis is nice, the rest of it's ugly.)

Cheers,
Fred


What is it, Fred? My firt guess would be a Teramin, knowin' you...

That would be a good first guess. But actually it's a low-power AM
transmitter. It's the "fanciest" of three circuits I mucked about with
recently, but haven't gotten around to documenting and putting up on the
ol' website yet.

I did manage to put up the schematic, though, it's at
http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/graphics/AM-tx2.gif

Cheers,
Fred

Shoo' nuf, Pat, he *was* mean enough to prove us wrong... I like the PS
setup, though (+-rails), the audio part (I'm real bad at RF, but like the
"global feedback" - is that commonly done in transmitters? 6BE6... is g2
(pin 6) there to give the electrons a fightin' chance to get past the second
controll grid? RF... Weirdness...

Shiva wrote:

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


Shiva wrote:
[...]
I'm a big fan of the short-lived "pink"
anodized aluminum faceplates...

LOL! Good thing it was short-lived!

I rather like gold anodizing, like on the chassis he

http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/...s/am-tx2-1.jpg

(Yeah, I know. The chassis is nice, the rest of it's ugly.)

Cheers,
Fred


What is it, Fred? My firt guess would be a Teramin, knowin' you...

That would be a good first guess. But actually it's a low-power AM
transmitter. It's the "fanciest" of three circuits I mucked about with
recently, but haven't gotten around to documenting and putting up on the
ol' website yet.

I did manage to put up the schematic, though, it's at
http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/graphics/AM-tx2.gif

Cheers,
Fred

Shoo' nuf, Pat, he *was* mean enough to prove us wrong... I like the PS
setup, though (+-rails), the audio part (I'm real bad at RF, but like the
"global feedback" - is that commonly done in transmitters? 6BE6... is g2
(pin 6) there to give the electrons a fightin' chance to get past the second
controll grid? RF... Weirdness...


I'm stuffed if I know how the thing works.
Trans Mitter.
I dunno about the diodes and FB, I guess the AM output
is demodulated to AF, and applied back to the AF input,
and any errors in the modulation are corrected.
But I also don't know why he has a Crys Stal in there when she don't really seem
necessary to the process.
Just a one triode Oscar Laitor and Pen Toad amp would seem to be all that's
needed
for the Ah Reff and one Elle Tee Pee for the Aud Io.

Keep smiling.


Lance Armstrong looks certain to gain time over the rest of the field
up the final climb right now, although there is one
unimportant rider in front of him at last report.

Micheal Rogers (aus) is at 15th overall.
His first Tour I think....

Patrick Turner.

Patrick Turner wrote:

Shiva wrote:


[...]

Shoo' nuf, Pat, he *was* mean enough to prove us wrong... I like the PS
setup, though (+-rails), the audio part (I'm real bad at RF, but like the
"global feedback" - is that commonly done in transmitters? 6BE6... is g2
(pin 6) there to give the electrons a fightin' chance to get past the second
controll grid? RF... Weirdness...


I'm stuffed if I know how the thing works.
Trans Mitter.
I dunno about the diodes and FB, I guess the AM output
is demodulated to AF, and applied back to the AF input,

Bingo! That's exactly what it do. Distributed C and input C to 12AT7
grid pin 2 filters the RF pretty good, no need for any added Cappa Sitters.

and any errors in the modulation are corrected.
But I also don't know why he has a Crys Stal in there when she don't really seem
necessary to the process.

Oh, Crys is a very stable gal, one of them thar homesteading types, ya
know. She's married to Cole Pitts, Oscar Laitor's second cousin. She
manages to keep Cole Pitts from having the wanderin' eye all over the
band...

Just a one triode Oscar Laitor and Pen Toad amp would seem to be all that's
needed
for the Ah Reff and one Elle Tee Pee for the Aud Io.

But then you need good old Mod U. Later added to give Aud Io somethin'
to do. Pen Toad - yup, works good for Ah Reff Apple-fryer. But the
12-eh-you!-7 mu-stage is kinda nice too, low input C like Pen Toad, and
output is at DC ground so nothing goes bzzt-dzzt when pokinfingerin' the
Ah Reff Coill.

Keep smiling.

OK. :-)))

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


Shiva wrote:
"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...

[...]

I did manage to put up the schematic, though, it's at
http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/graphics/AM-tx2.gif

Cheers,
Fred


Shoo' nuf, Pat, he *was* mean enough to prove us wrong...

Yeah, I can be a mean bugger on a Sunday morning...

I like the PS
setup, though (+-rails), the audio part (I'm real bad at RF, but like
the
"global feedback" - is that commonly done in transmitters?

I'd never seen it, but what do I know? Shortly after floating my
"wonderful invention" on an electronics forum, our very own Robert Casey
pointed me to an article he did forever ago, doing essentially the same
thing:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...os/amxmit.html

Ain't nuthin' new under the sun....


Annoying that other people have imagination too, ain't it? I like the guy's
web presentation - it's nice to see real scope data along with the theory &
modeling....

6BE6... is g2
(pin 6) there to give the electrons a fightin' chance to get past the
second
controll grid?

It's basically just the first screen grid. For signal it's at ground, so
it provides the anode for the oscillator grid (g1). What's really cool
is that what happens on the second control grid (g3) has virtually *no
effect* on cathode current! The difference is all absorbed in the g2/g4
business. (g4 is the second screen grid). And of course g5 is the
suppressor.

Clever... At least now i have a basic grasp for those toob's reason for
being...


The net result is that the oscillator stays rock-steady even under
modulation on g3. The tube was designed to mix incoming RF with the
local oscillator, producing an IF on the plate. But there's nothing that
says you can't put audio on g3 instead, and have modulated RF on the
plate.

RF... Weirdness...

Yup, especially when you start trying to figure out antennas. Black
magic, I tells ya...

I was friends with an old guy named Bob (must be hittin' 90 around now) who
was doin' CW - always had to put up his half -mile (to me) long *wire* eachj
time a storm came trough. He did all kinds of weird antenae designs when he
was younger - there were chunks of old towers & mysterious combination of
aluminum tubing & PVC pipe rotting all over his place...

Cheers,
Fred

Patrick Turner wrote:

[...]
Just a one triode Oscar Laitor and Pen Toad amp would seem to be all that's
needed
for the Ah Reff and one Elle Tee Pee for the Aud Io.

Keep smiling.

Oh by the way -- here's the other two Sir Kitts. The first one is the
"Muntz" version, you could make it even Muntzier by replacing Crys Stall
with her cousin Elsie Net-Works.

http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/graphics/AM-tx1.gif

Works pretty good, but you get less undistored modulation depth without
the NFB. Output's pretty wimpy too, only about 3 Millie Whats. Prototype
was transmogrified into this next one:

http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/graphics/AM-tx3.gif

This one's kinda inbetween, with Penn Toad for Aud Io Apple-Fryer, Crys
Stall Die-odes for de Tektor. Could use an Ah Reff Apple-Fryer, but it's
just barely enough to drive my linear to 80 watts PEP on a good day.

This one's even uglier. Went all out to get that
Retro-Radio-Shack-Hobbyist-Kitsch look.

http://dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/...s/am-tx3-1.jpg

Cheers,
Fred