What's the diffference? Is one better? Warmer? ****tier? Or do all 414's
just suck? Or are they all great? I know that years ago they made some
changes that clearly made them worse (B/uls/etc...), but as someone who
hasn't paid very close attention, I find myself needing to buy a pair for an
engineer booking time at my studio. He has no preference. Which ones
should I get? Please spare me the sarcasm.

Thanks
Andy
NYC

mosch wrote:

Which ones should I get? Please spare me the sarcasm.

Aww, you're no fun.

mosch wrote:
What's the diffference? Is one better? Warmer? ****tier? Or do all 414's
just suck? Or are they all great? I know that years ago they made some
changes that clearly made them worse (B/uls/etc...), but as someone who
hasn't paid very close attention, I find myself needing to buy a pair for an
engineer booking time at my studio. He has no preference. Which ones
should I get? Please spare me the sarcasm.

Check out Paul Stamler's recent review in Recording magazine. He goes through
a lot of how the two are different and why.

Personally, I'd tell you to buy an old 414/TL. But that's just me.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"mosch" wrote in message
...
What's the diffference? Is one better? Warmer? ****tier? Or do all
414's
just suck? Or are they all great? I know that years ago they made some
changes that clearly made them worse (B/uls/etc...), but as someone who
hasn't paid very close attention, I find myself needing to buy a pair for
an
engineer booking time at my studio. He has no preference. Which ones
should I get? Please spare me the sarcasm.


Recent reviews in Recording and SOS .

geoff

Try to find a couple of used EB's, if you can.
They always sounded better to me.
Tom


"mosch" wrote in message
...
What's the diffference? Is one better? Warmer? ****tier? Or do all
414's
just suck? Or are they all great? I know that years ago they made some
changes that clearly made them worse (B/uls/etc...), but as someone who
hasn't paid very close attention, I find myself needing to buy a pair for
an
engineer booking time at my studio. He has no preference. Which ones
should I get? Please spare me the sarcasm.

Thanks
Andy
NYC

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:32:20 -0500, mosch wrote
(in article ):

What's the diffference? Is one better? Warmer? ****tier? Or do all 414's
just suck? Or are they all great? I know that years ago they made some
changes that clearly made them worse (B/uls/etc...), but as someone who
hasn't paid very close attention, I find myself needing to buy a pair for an
engineer booking time at my studio. He has no preference. Which ones
should I get? Please spare me the sarcasm.

Thanks
Andy
NYC


I reviewed both the new ones for PAR recently

The new ones have noticeably lower selfnoise an extra pattern and more
rolloff options. It's a good update.

As with the old ones, they don't like some preamps. With the right preamps
they sound quite nice (as in, they don't suck). I'm guessing those comments
about them sucking are from people with preamps that are not good matches.

I like the B/ULS, btw. On my GML preamps they sound very nice.

Regards,

Ty Ford

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

In article , Ty Ford
wrote:

The new ones have noticeably lower selfnoise an extra pattern and more
rolloff options. It's a good update.



Everytime I read about lower self noise in a mic like that I shake my
head. The next time one of my 414buls' has any self noise problem will
be the first.

Same goes for my 80's U87 vs the current vintage.

The only condenser mic I can think of where self noise has been a
problem is when really jacking the signal of one of my orginal AKG
451eb's.

Lower self noise is not a reason to buy this updated 414. There may be
other reasons, but that ain't one of them.

So how does that newfangled one sound compared to the buls? I mean,
that's the question for slugs like me.

And I think that overload led is dumb. Do you have to be a genius to
know when a mic sounds like doo-doo? But it surely will help them sell
to da kids. Just what I'd want: clients while they are performing
worrying about the color of an led.

As has been said many times before, if AKG *really* wanted to be
radical, they'd reissue the C-12 414. I know I would buy one. Maybe
two.




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

david wrote:



As has been said many times before, if AKG *really* wanted to be
radical, they'd reissue the C-12 414. I know I would buy one. Maybe
two.

But you need the original capsule. Word is, somebody died with the
secret formula.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 04:35:52 -0500, david wrote
(in article ):

In article , Ty Ford
wrote:

The new ones have noticeably lower selfnoise an extra pattern and more
rolloff options. It's a good update.



Everytime I read about lower self noise in a mic like that I shake my
head. The next time one of my 414buls' has any self noise problem will
be the first.

Same goes for my 80's U87 vs the current vintage.

The only condenser mic I can think of where self noise has been a
problem is when really jacking the signal of one of my orginal AKG
451eb's.

Lower self noise is not a reason to buy this updated 414. There may be
other reasons, but that ain't one of them.

So how does that newfangled one sound compared to the buls? I mean,
that's the question for slugs like me.

And I think that overload led is dumb. Do you have to be a genius to
know when a mic sounds like doo-doo? But it surely will help them sell
to da kids. Just what I'd want: clients while they are performing
worrying about the color of an led.

As has been said many times before, if AKG *really* wanted to be
radical, they'd reissue the C-12 414. I know I would buy one. Maybe
two.



There are a thousand ways to say, "No." Thanks for chipping in.

In your "OLD" days people recorded on rusty ribbons of acetate (and other
bases), the noise from which would easily be higher than the mic's selfnoise.


THESE days, particularly in cases in which the sound recorded is of a very
low level, or hangs out without anything else to cover the noise, selfnoise
is a lot more audible, to those of us who can hear.

Then too, THESE days, the penchant for OVERCOMPRESSING EVERYTHING also raises
the mic's selfnoise to even more noticeable levels.

It's a good upgrade. I compared them to my existing B/ULS and wished mine
were as quiet.

Smiles,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

It's a good upgrade. I compared them to my existing B/ULS and wished mine
were as quiet.

Smiles,

Ty Ford


Perhaps the key word would be "upgrade". If you're going to buy a new 414,
then get the 414XLII vs TLII.

Possibly his question is "should I replace my existing 414's with the new one?
Are the new ones significantly improved to warrant scapping my current
investment?"
In my case, the answer is no. I'll stay with my current ones until they need
replacing. ( a couple of TLII's and a BULS)

My hearing is good enough, but my wallet isn't.

NOT flaming, just my honest comment with some perspective.

--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-

The only condenser mic I can think of where self noise has been a
problem is when really jacking the signal of one of my orginal AKG
451eb's. BRBR

KM84s are also pretty low output & the noise can be an issue with quiet
sources.

Scott Fraser

In article , Ty Ford
wrote:

THESE days, particularly in cases in which the sound recorded is of a very
low level, or hangs out without anything else to cover the noise, selfnoise
is a lot more audible, to those of us who can hear.


If only I were a member of that elite group ;


Then too, THESE days, the penchant for OVERCOMPRESSING EVERYTHING also raises
the mic's selfnoise to even more noticeable levels.

It's a good upgrade. I compared them to my existing B/ULS and wished mine
were as quiet.

Smiles,

Ty Ford



Has self noise been a problem for you when recording with a 414 buls?





David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

Joe Sensor wrote:
david wrote:

As has been said many times before, if AKG *really* wanted to be
radical, they'd reissue the C-12 414. I know I would buy one. Maybe
two.

But you need the original capsule. Word is, somebody died with the
secret formula.

Nahh, anything can be cloned. But it couldn't be cloned with the automated
production facility that AKG is using, and it wouldn't be cheap. Most of
the really good attempts that I have seen to clone vintage mikes have had
to cut a lot of corners to make them cheaper than the seemingly-overpriced
originals.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 06:42:44 -0500, david wrote
(in article ):

In article , Ty Ford
wrote:

THESE days, particularly in cases in which the sound recorded is of a very
low level, or hangs out without anything else to cover the noise, selfnoise
is a lot more audible, to those of us who can hear.


If only I were a member of that elite group ;


Then too, THESE days, the penchant for OVERCOMPRESSING EVERYTHING also
raises
the mic's selfnoise to even more noticeable levels.

It's a good upgrade. I compared them to my existing B/ULS and wished mine
were as quiet.

Smiles,

Ty Ford



Has self noise been a problem for you when recording with a 414 buls?

When low noise sources are used and they'll be bare (or relatively so), i
just choose another mic, maybe a TLM 103 or Rode NT2-a.

Smiles,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

In article , Ty Ford
wrote:

Has self noise been a problem for you when recording with a 414 buls?

When low noise sources are used and they'll be bare (or relatively so), i
just choose another mic, maybe a TLM 103 or Rode NT2-a.

Smiles,

Ty Ford



What if you didn't use another mic. Again, has it ever been a problem
with a 414 buls?

If it has, what were you recording?

I find that the "sound" of the room itself, even a quiet room - I got
pretty good isolation here, I don't have to worry about external sounds
leaking onto a track - that the "sound" of the "quiet" room itself is
greater than the mic noise floor. When I put the mic into record I hear
the room, not the mic.

Never mind the myraid noises, including that bugaboo called breathing,
that people themselves make while making music. I've had to ask women
to remove earrings forpetesake.

Hey, is your name really Tyree??






David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 04:58:32 -0500, david wrote
(in article ):

In article , Ty Ford
wrote:

Has self noise been a problem for you when recording with a 414 buls?

When low noise sources are used and they'll be bare (or relatively so), i
just choose another mic, maybe a TLM 103 or Rode NT2-a.

Smiles,

Ty Ford



What if you didn't use another mic. Again, has it ever been a problem
with a 414 buls?

As above, yeah, it has. And I chose a quieter mic because I didn't want to
hear the selfnoise.

If it has, what were you recording?

narration on one occasion where I knew the voice would be in the clear much
of the time, harp comes to mind -- the stringy thing not the reedy thing.


I find that the "sound" of the room itself, even a quiet room - I got
pretty good isolation here, I don't have to worry about external sounds
leaking onto a track - that the "sound" of the "quiet" room itself is
greater than the mic noise floor. When I put the mic into record I hear
the room, not the mic.

Maybe it's quieter here. I measured once or twice with a spectral analyzer
and several mics. The TLMm 103 for sure because of its low selfnoise. While
there was some low end stuff showing up (distant earthquakes...brontosaurus
farts., etc) the display was showing -80dB or less. That's not a very
scientific measurement, but it is damn quiet in here even when the
exceedingly quiet flourescents (sp?) are on.

Maybe we should trade room tones!

Never mind the myraid noises, including that bugaboo called breathing,
that people themselves make while making music. I've had to ask women
to remove earrings forpetesake.

Had a storyteller with a bad fitting set of dentures, mini clicks

Hey, is your name really Tyree??

S'me. There are two Tyrees in different John Wayne Movies; a Seargent and a
Lieutenant. There's also a Tyree in the first (Shatner) Startrek; a sort of
albino guy.


There was another Tyree Ford in Baltimore. We met by accident.

Smiles,

Ty Ford

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

In article , Ty Ford
wrote:

What if you didn't use another mic. Again, has it ever been a problem
with a 414 buls?

As above, yeah, it has. And I chose a quieter mic because I didn't want to
hear the selfnoise.

If it has, what were you recording?

narration on one occasion where I knew the voice would be in the clear much
of the time, harp comes to mind -- the stringy thing not the reedy thing.




414 has been my fave all purpose voiceover mic for male voices for a
long time. Plugged into a Amek 9098 pre/eq module and compressed pretty
hard by a Bob Alach modified black LA4 and then a hardware Waves L2.

Have recorded loud and very quiet voices. Never had your problem. Ever.

I won't even bring up recording v/o onto analog tape. That may have
drivin you completely mad ;

Cool that you met another Tyree Ford. Around here there are multiple
others with not only the same first and last but middle name as me. One
of them was a Mac user with the same registered software & our
addresses would get mixed up. And I thought I had some claim to a
little uniqueness.





David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 05:27:46 -0500, david wrote
(in article ):

In article , Ty Ford
wrote:

What if you didn't use another mic. Again, has it ever been a problem
with a 414 buls?

As above, yeah, it has. And I chose a quieter mic because I didn't want to
hear the selfnoise.

If it has, what were you recording?

narration on one occasion where I knew the voice would be in the clear much
of the time, harp comes to mind -- the stringy thing not the reedy thing.




414 has been my fave all purpose voiceover mic for male voices for a
long time. Plugged into a Amek 9098 pre/eq module and compressed pretty
hard by a Bob Alach modified black LA4 and then a hardware Waves L2.

Have recorded loud and very quiet voices. Never had your problem. Ever.

I won't even bring up recording v/o onto analog tape. That may have
drivin you completely mad ;


Right. I'm not. Best I can explain it is that the lower selfnoise is like not
realizing the windshield is dirty until you clean it.

I'm not suggesting you trash your 414 (and I won't trash my pair), but having
heard the difference, I frowned a bit.

Cool that you met another Tyree Ford. Around here there are multiple
others with not only the same first and last but middle name as me. One
of them was a Mac user with the same registered software & our
addresses would get mixed up. And I thought I had some claim to a
little uniqueness.

I had a Honda once that was one digit different from another Ford's
Honda......fun.

Smiles,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com