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#41
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Prune wrote: I was talking about this: http://www.vishay.com/docs/49435/49435.pdf Much of it is marketing, of course, but Table 1 is interesting and they say these are measured results of this current noise (as opposed to the regular thermal noise) they are talking about. Having read it in more detail now, I'm inclined to complain to Vishay about some of it's content which is plainly incorrect ! They can't even spell Boltzmann correctly ( as in his constant ). http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac...Boltzmann.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Boltzmann http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann's_constant They fail to mention carbon film which is very widely used. Instead they mention only the truly miserable carbon composition which is long obsolete and today unobtainable, I guess to make their product look fancier in comparison. Some 'authenticity nuts' like to use carbon composition of course, which says a lot about their mental condition ! They make claims anbout 'noise free resistors' when such things don't even exist. And several other example of total ******** such as " The major objection to wirewounds, however, is the inductance that chops the peaks and fails to replicate the higher frequencies of the second and third harmonics." I'd question their figures for metal film too. Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Graham |
#42
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Eeyore wrote in
: Your argument incidentally could also be levelled at idiots with their own websites. As in any ****tard can put their own website online. There is *no* safeguard about these whatever and indeed they pose a greater risk. Indeed, that's why I only trust corporate and government websites. |
#43
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Eeyore wrote in
: Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Like I guessed. Nonetheless, I've heard good reviews from people that have used them. I was mostly on Roederstein MK3s, and in critical positions like feedback, Caddock MK132, but I may switch to these, as the Roedersteins are long out of production and getting hard to source, while the Caddocks are just as expensive as these metal foils Vishays. |
#44
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
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#45
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Hi RATs!
Sonic Accuracy ?!*? Hi - Fi ? I am having fun with my Audio toyboxes and you are talking rubbish. Life is not serious. I am not serious. You are pathetic. Do you understand the word pathetic? Why are you so afraid to hear anything? It ain't all quivering air molecules, occasionally a human is making Music. You ever heard of Music? It is against the law in some places. People who live there all want to kill and die. I understand them. You, I just despise Happy Ears! Al Eeyore wrote: Making a radical change to the circuit arrangement will of course be audible. AIUI your mod increases distortion which some ppl find audibly pleasing. This may indeed 'enrich' listening for you but it has absolutely nothing to do with hi-fi or sonic accuracy. Indeed for precisely these kinds of reasons - recording studios own all manners of outboard effects to provide this kind of 'enhancement'. Your method is akin to wiring in an such a processor permanently with no way of turning it off so as to hear the original. Graham |
#46
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
"Phil Allison" wrote in news:4iegd8F3cuavU1
@individual.net: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/tinfoil "a paper-thin metal sheeting usually of aluminum or ***tin-lead alloy***" http://www.answers.com/topic/tin-foil "A thin, pliable sheet of aluminum or of ***tin-lead alloy***, used as a protective wrapping. http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_18...1/tinfoil.html "***tin, or an alloy of tin and lead***, in a very thin sheet" I rest my case. |
#47
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
" wrote in
oups.com: blah blah subjectivist nonsense blah blah At first I was wondering, then I saw the aol.com host and all was clear X-D |
#48
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
"Prune" ** ****ING ILLITERATE !! ....... Phil |
#49
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Prune wrote:
Eeyore wrote in : Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Like I guessed. Nonetheless, I've heard good reviews from people that have used them. I was mostly on Roederstein MK3s, and in critical positions like feedback, Caddock MK132, but I may switch to these, as the Roedersteins are long out of production and getting hard to source, while the Caddocks are just as expensive as these metal foils Vishays. They also say '...a compliment of commercial parts...' - they really meant complement unless they are praising the extra noise Cheers PeteS |
#50
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Hi RATs!
The Object of your affection has given you an infection. Nothing to be done but cut off your head Happy Ears! Al Prune wrote: blah blah subjectivist nonsense blah blah At first I was wondering, then I saw the aol.com host and all was clear X-D |
#51
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Well, it's certainly a creative comeback, if one that doesn't quite make
sense... " wrote in oups.com: Hi RATs! The Object of your affection has given you an infection. Nothing to be done but cut off your head Happy Ears! Al Prune wrote: blah blah subjectivist nonsense blah blah At first I was wondering, then I saw the aol.com host and all was clear X-D |
#52
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore
wrote: Prune wrote: I was talking about this: http://www.vishay.com/docs/49435/49435.pdf Much of it is marketing, of course, but Table 1 is interesting and they say these are measured results of this current noise (as opposed to the regular thermal noise) they are talking about. Having read it in more detail now, I'm inclined to complain to Vishay about some of it's content which is plainly incorrect ! They can't even spell Boltzmann correctly ( as in his constant ). http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac...Boltzmann.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Boltzmann http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann's_constant They fail to mention carbon film which is very widely used. Instead they mention only the truly miserable carbon composition which is long obsolete and today unobtainable, I guess to make their product look fancier in comparison. Some 'authenticity nuts' like to use carbon composition of course, which says a lot about their mental condition ! They make claims anbout 'noise free resistors' when such things don't even exist. And several other example of total ******** such as " The major objection to wirewounds, however, is the inductance that chops the peaks and fails to replicate the higher frequencies of the second and third harmonics." I'd question their figures for metal film too. Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Graham This is pretty bad. The "trained ear" thing, and the testimonial as a result of a non-blind hearing test, are typical sonicbabble. Their claim that crystal grain boundaries are the source of resistance is simply absurd. Single metallic crystals, like turbine blades, are not superconductors. It is true that metallic resistors have much less shot noise (which they strangely call "current noise") than carbon or oxide resistors, which might matter in audio applications but seldom does. In something without DC bias, like an attenuator, it simply won't matter. They rate thickfilms as "unacceptable" at -10 dB, which is -130 dB shot noise with their scale (uV/V) properly adjusted. If they had honestly shown the resistor table as going from -160 to -95 dB, it would have been obvious that this issue is mostly bogus. Where are you going to get a signal source that has a 120 dB s/n ratio? Vishay foil resistors are good in some hyper-precision applications, but are insane for audio. Because of the way they're trimmed, their series inductance varies from part to part, and their heatsinked parts have ghastly eddy-current hooks, 2000 ppm or more transient errors, which is why we make our own current shunts. But mainline companies like Vishay and Belden write golden-ear nonsense to play to the audiophool niche market. John |
#53
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:16:40 GMT, Prune
wrote: Eeyore wrote in : Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Like I guessed. Nonetheless, I've heard good reviews from people that have used them. I was mostly on Roederstein MK3s, and in critical positions like feedback, Caddock MK132, but I may switch to these, as the Roedersteins are long out of production and getting hard to source, while the Caddocks are just as expensive as these metal foils Vishays. The Caddock stuff is thickfilm, which has classic shot noise. This doesn't matter, you know. John |
#54
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Eeyore wrote:
Having read it in more detail now, I'm inclined to complain to Vishay about some of it's content which is plainly incorrect ! They can't even spell Boltzmann correctly ( as in his constant ). You can't even spell its correctly. I find it amusing that someone who can't spell a common three letter word complaining about someone else's spelling of a foreign name... /dry humor off |
#55
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
John Larkin wrote
in : On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore wrote: Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Graham It is true that metallic resistors have much less shot noise (which they strangely call "current noise") than carbon or oxide resistors, which might matter in audio applications but seldom does. In something without DC bias, like an attenuator, it simply won't matter. Maybe Vishay hired that id10t Kevin Aylward, who called me all sorts of terrible things when I told him that resistors have shot noise... and said a lot of other remarkably stupid things as well. -- Bob Quintal PA is y I've altered my email address. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#56
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Eeyore wrote:
(a whole bagpipes full of wind, reproduced below) Graham Pro-audio designer ( that's the stuff that *makes* the recordings you listen to btw ) for 30 years No, Poopie, we've discussed this before and decided that when you could still find employment you homogenized music into lowest-denominator muzak. There's a gulf between Al's hedonism and the blunt instrument of your mindless rote-learning of a few "scientific" facts. The chasm is called culture and explains why most of us believe Al and not you. Andre Jute Stop bleating. Please, please, please give me the Silence of the Lambs. PS Not that I'm about to rush out and buy caps that expensive. Common catalogue films suit my audio systems well. PPS The most important point in Al's writings in this interesting thread is his insistence on the system working well together. Here is wretched Poopie's letter in full: ******** Eeyore wrote: " wrote: Hi RATs! OK, since all wise men know everything in Audio is BS, then anybody who thinks they hear something is crazy. Fair enough. You may be hearing 'something' but you've been brainwashed into thinking it's about some nebulous unspecified kind of 'quality' All capacitors have a tolerance on their value for instance. For film caps used in audio are typically +- 5 or 10% So, a 0.47uF cap may actually be 0.43 or 0.52 uF, worse still for 20% tolerance part. If it's used in an appication that's particularly value sensitive like a filter stage there will indeed be obvious differences in performance ( frequency response most obviously ) that are easily measured such as turnover frequency and slope. Of couse the uneducated hear a difference and jump to the conclusion that their shiny new capacitor is *better*, because they know no better and of course because that's what they've been told to think. And since all wise men know Vodka cannot have any beneficial effect on your palate, by Law!, it is all BS, too. Good thinking. And Music only sounds good if you think about it properly, just like you do. Music can also sound better under the influence of certain substances, proving beyond doubt that all human perception is subjective and fallible on a day to day basis. Sure. That line of reasoning is elegant in its simplicity Now, please explain why we have to ask you what we may or may not hear? Because you might be interested in the underlying science - which I can assure you is the most effective way to first-class reproduction rather than Silly Billy fiddling with components maybe ? Is it because nobody ever can have any fun unless you say so? Great plan. Good luck. If you are the only non-fool, we are mostly fools, so only you know anything useful. I don't mind. Why do you think I care if you do? If you're happy being a gullible fool, more power to you ! Spend more on those magic components ! Graham Pro-audio designer ( that's the stuff that *makes* the recordings you listen to btw ) for 30 years |
#57
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
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#58
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Prune wrote: Eeyore wrote in : Your argument incidentally could also be levelled at idiots with their own websites. As in any ****tard can put their own website online. There is *no* safeguard about these whatever and indeed they pose a greater risk. Indeed, that's why I only trust corporate and government websites. Including Vishay's ? ;~) Graham |
#59
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:38:28 +0100, Eeyore
wrote: wrote: Eeyore wrote: Having read it in more detail now, I'm inclined to complain to Vishay about some of it's content which is plainly incorrect ! They can't even spell Boltzmann correctly ( as in his constant ). You can't even spell its correctly. I find it amusing that someone who can't spell a common three letter word complaining about someone else's spelling of a foreign name... /dry humor off An annoying rare example of a typo for me. Graham Really? I remember one just a few days ago ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#60
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
John Larkin wrote
in : On 22 Jul 2006 16:25:53 GMT, Bob Quintal wrote: John Larkin wrote in : On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore wrote: Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Graham It is true that metallic resistors have much less shot noise (which they strangely call "current noise") than carbon or oxide resistors, which might matter in audio applications but seldom does. In something without DC bias, like an attenuator, it simply won't matter. Maybe Vishay hired that id10t Kevin Aylward, who called me all sorts of terrible things when I told him that resistors have shot noise... and said a lot of other remarkably stupid things as well. Since the audio types can't measure what's happening, truth becomes a matter of hormones and rhetoric. But Kevin claimed that he's a professional engineer, and has worked designing analog monolithic circuits for Texas Instruments. http://www.anasoft.co.uk/founder.html Of course, Graham deliberately kicked the beehive when he posted something like this to both audio and electronics design groups, natural enemies if ever there were such. I *do* work at 120 dB s/n ratios over DC-50 KHz bandwidths and I do use surface-mount thickfilm resistors. Pretty much the same here, John -- Bob Quintal PA is y I've altered my email address. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#61
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On 22 Jul 2006 16:25:53 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote: John Larkin wrote in : On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore wrote: Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Graham It is true that metallic resistors have much less shot noise (which they strangely call "current noise") than carbon or oxide resistors, which might matter in audio applications but seldom does. In something without DC bias, like an attenuator, it simply won't matter. Maybe Vishay hired that id10t Kevin Aylward, who called me all sorts of terrible things when I told him that resistors have shot noise... and said a lot of other remarkably stupid things as well. Since the audio types can't measure what's happening, truth becomes a matter of hormones and rhetoric. Of course, Graham deliberately kicked the beehive when he posted something like this to both audio and electronics design groups, natural enemies if ever there were such. I *do* work at 120 dB s/n ratios over DC-50 KHz bandwidths and I do use surface-mount thickfilm resistors. John |
#63
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
John Larkin wrote: On 22 Jul 2006 16:25:53 GMT, Bob Quintal wrote: John Larkin wrote in : On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore wrote: Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Graham It is true that metallic resistors have much less shot noise (which they strangely call "current noise") than carbon or oxide resistors, which might matter in audio applications but seldom does. In something without DC bias, like an attenuator, it simply won't matter. Maybe Vishay hired that id10t Kevin Aylward, who called me all sorts of terrible things when I told him that resistors have shot noise... and said a lot of other remarkably stupid things as well. Since the audio types can't measure what's happening, truth becomes a matter of hormones and rhetoric. Of course, Graham deliberately kicked the beehive when he posted something like this to both audio and electronics design groups, natural enemies if ever there were such. Not natural enemies IMHO. Certainly shouldn't be. I believe that science holds the relevant answers if only correctly applied. There do seem to be any number of clowns in the 'esoteric' audio biz who simply don't believe in science though. Your point about the uV/V graph being displaced by 120dB from normal is highly relevant and a great way of being disingenuous by Vishay. Having said all of that, I have come across cheap 'n nasty metal film parts that are significantly noisier than those from the 'better' manufacturers btw. I can't however see any rationale for requiring anything better than good quality metal film in audio. Graham |
#64
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Bob Quintal wrote: John Larkin wrote in : On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore wrote: Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Graham It is true that metallic resistors have much less shot noise (which they strangely call "current noise") than carbon or oxide resistors, which might matter in audio applications but seldom does. In something without DC bias, like an attenuator, it simply won't matter. Maybe Vishay hired that id10t Kevin Aylward, who called me all sorts of terrible things when I told him that resistors have shot noise... and said a lot of other remarkably stupid things as well. Good resistors don't have shot noise - which is what you see when your current is flowing as single non-interacting electrons or holes, so that the currnt is genuinely quantised. Good resistors do have Johnson noise, which simply reflects the electron cloud carrying the current is a room temperature so that the individual electroncs are doing a bit of Brownian motion on top of the drift due to the elecric field. Crap resistors have "excess noise" which is to say, more than Johnson noise. Kevin Alyward understands this sort of stuff, and you clearly don't. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen |
#65
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore
Gave us: Instead they mention only the truly miserable carbon composition which is long obsolete and today unobtainable, Bull****. Still widely used in the power supply industry. Bulk mediums are required for arc suppression, and are also good as current limiters in HV applications. |
#66
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore
Gave us: Some 'authenticity nuts' like to use carbon composition of course, which says a lot about their mental condition ! They make claims anbout 'noise free resistors' when such things don't even exist. You're a brainless wonder. Of course you cannot abate all noise. The goal is to make one as noise free as possible. |
#67
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Hi RATs!
Objectivists are nice people who make all the correct technical choices for all the wrong reasons. Of course it doesn't make sense. Recreating portions of an empathic artistic experience requires a bit more than a high rez copier Nice write ups on: http://www.clarisonus.com/blog/ Well, except for my brain dead trailer trash gurglings ... Happy Ears! Al PS I once (ca. 1967) worked as a guard at the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis. When patrons asked if these were real paintings and sculptures, I reassured them (I lied, OK?) they were just copies (people were fearful the originals might get damaged, no one would bother defacing a mere copy, back in them good old days). Minneapolis was once a great distance from Athens, Rome, London and Paris. No longer far enough, sigh. Nepal is just a train ride away, these days. PPS I am married to a pianist. I love her and her friends much more than any of the dip**** engineers I ever worked with. Sorry, technical descriptions are never literature, even, or perhaps especially, when marketing tries to pretty them up with fancy lies Prune wrote: Well, it's certainly a creative comeback, if one that doesn't quite make sense... " wrote Hi RATs! The Object of your affection has given you an infection. Nothing to be done but cut off your head Happy Ears! Al |
#68
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore
Gave us: They fail to mention carbon film which is very widely used. Instead they mention only the truly miserable carbon composition which is long obsolete and today unobtainable, I guess to make their product look fancier in comparison. They mentioned four resistor manufacturing methods. |
#69
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore
Gave us: Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. The misspelling of Boltzmann merely means that a non electronics trained person write the PDF. The data, given to that person was written as given, and that person made no embellishments whatsoever. It was a misspelling. Period. |
#70
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:09:58 -0700, John Larkin
Gave us: Where are you going to get a signal source that has a 120 dB s/n ratio? A modulated laser, and the output from the laser detector. |
#71
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
John Larkin wrote
in : On 22 Jul 2006 18:03:38 GMT, Bob Quintal wrote: I *do* work at 120 dB s/n ratios over DC-50 KHz bandwidths and I do use surface-mount thickfilm resistors. Pretty much the same here, Cool. I do NMR gradient-coil drivers. What do you do? John amongst other things, image sensor front ends for telescopes. -- Bob Quintal PA is y I've altered my email address. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#72
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On 22 Jul 2006 11:40:10 -0700, wrote:
Bob Quintal wrote: John Larkin wrote in : On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore wrote: Definitely written by the marketing dept and a poor show on Vishay's part. Graham It is true that metallic resistors have much less shot noise (which they strangely call "current noise") than carbon or oxide resistors, which might matter in audio applications but seldom does. In something without DC bias, like an attenuator, it simply won't matter. Maybe Vishay hired that id10t Kevin Aylward, who called me all sorts of terrible things when I told him that resistors have shot noise... and said a lot of other remarkably stupid things as well. Good resistors don't have shot noise - which is what you see when your current is flowing as single non-interacting electrons or holes, so that the currnt is genuinely quantised. Good resistors do have Johnson noise, which simply reflects the electron cloud carrying the current is a room temperature so that the individual electroncs are doing a bit of Brownian motion on top of the drift due to the elecric field. Crap resistors have "excess noise" which is to say, more than Johnson noise. Kevin Alyward understands this sort of stuff, and you clearly don't. http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/bee...ise/noise.html http://www.eng.yale.edu/qlab/papers/..._shotnoise.pdf http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJ/...667932863Guest I think that carbon and thickfilm (metal oxide) resistors have serious shot noise, and metallic resistors have very little, at least until they get very small. I don't know if thickfilms approach or exceed Poisson-level noise, or exactly what "very small" is; clarifications would be appreciated. Of course, if you keep DC away from critical resistors, the shot noise becomes a tiny signal gain modulation that can hardly ever matter. John |
#73
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On 22 Jul 2006 18:03:38 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote: I *do* work at 120 dB s/n ratios over DC-50 KHz bandwidths and I do use surface-mount thickfilm resistors. Pretty much the same here, Cool. I do NMR gradient-coil drivers. What do you do? John |
#74
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:49:25 GMT, Phat Bytestard
wrote: On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:09:58 -0700, John Larkin Gave us: Where are you going to get a signal source that has a 120 dB s/n ratio? A modulated laser, and the output from the laser detector. You're joking, right? Lasers and photodetectors are the nastiest, noisiest things around; I've been fighting that particular issue all week. A photodiode has full shot noise, too. Well, maybe a picosecond-speed optical link with KHz FM modulation could get close, at a system bandwidth penalty around 1e9. John |
#75
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Phat Bytestard wrote: On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore Gave us: Instead they mention only the truly miserable carbon composition which is long obsolete and today unobtainable, Bull****. Still widely used in the power supply industry. Bulk mediums are required for arc suppression, and are also good as current limiters in HV applications. Well...... I don't see them stocked by the usual suspects. Graham |
#76
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Phat Bytestard wrote: On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore Gave us: Some 'authenticity nuts' like to use carbon composition of course, which says a lot about their mental condition ! They make claims anbout 'noise free resistors' when such things don't even exist. You're a brainless wonder. Of course you cannot abate all noise. The goal is to make one as noise free as possible. Which is what I said ! As for brainless, perhaps you'd care to read a post accurately first before making daft comments. Indeed, why would I have mentioned Boltzmann's constant in this context if I didn't know damn well the issues ? Graham |
#77
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
Phat Bytestard wrote: On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore Gave us: They fail to mention carbon film which is very widely used. Instead they mention only the truly miserable carbon composition which is long obsolete and today unobtainable, I guess to make their product look fancier in comparison. They mentioned four resistor manufacturing methods. Leaving out of the widest used ! Graham |
#78
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:12 +0100, Eeyore
Gave us: They fail to mention carbon film which is very widely used. The entire selling point of the sheet was that they are very low noise compared to other resistor manufacturing mediums. Noise in a resistor occurs because resistance mediums are actually heavily diluted semiconductors. The electrons bang around on their way through. It's a loose lattice. |
#79
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.pro,sci.electronics.design
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Vishay talk ******** - was Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:28:55 +0100, Eeyore
Gave us: Leaving out of the widest used ! In the audio industry? |
#80
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Teflon Film Tin Foil capacitors
wrote in message oups.com... Hi RATs! http://v-cap.com/tefloncapacitors.html never mind the mumbo-jumbo deluxe chatter: These things sound better than her saying this is your lucky night ... sell your Mother down the river and get what you really need: some new capacitors. Happy Ears! Al Marcy PS These sound too good for some people. You know who you are ... Hi Al, Good to see you back. RAT is pretty much as you remember, with all the personalities in good working order (as you already see)! Boy, for your first thread in good long time, you really hit it out of the park! Lots of different opinions and rants but the cap price is probably indicative of the labor / set up time for a special low volume product, not necessarily ALL profit. Whether it is worthwhile is really up to the individual considering. Me, that's unexplored territory (expensive audio caps) but I hear better things with tubes which some say is nonsense too...so?? We'll see. MarkS |
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