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#1
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
there's a fine and fairly wide-ranging interview with the man in the
online May '06 issueof The Audio Critic (circa his 80th birthday). (it requires a subscription to read, though) e.g., concerning groundbreaking components in the history of hi-fi: "The earliest Ampex and Magnecord tape decks because they demonstrated for the first time just what genuine high fidelity sounded like. The Dynakit 60 of the early 1950s because it was the first adequately powered high-quality amplifier at an affordable price. A. Stewart Hegemans Lowther-Brociner corner horn (c. 1951, also its plaster-of-Paris-and-plywood prototype) because no loudspeaker ever sounded as good before. The original Quad ESL, for obvious reasons. Bob Carvers Amazing Loudspeaker because it was so amazingly clever (why did it have to disappear?). And, in a more fundamental sense, the Westrex stereo cutter head because it made stereo sound easily available in every home." |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
... there's a fine and fairly wide-ranging interview with the man in the online May '06 issueof The Audio Critic (circa his 80th birthday). (it requires a subscription to read, though) e.g., concerning groundbreaking components in the history of hi-fi: "The earliest Ampex and Magnecord tape decks because they demonstrated for the first time just what genuine high fidelity sounded like. The Dynakit 60 of the early 1950s because it was the first adequately powered high-quality amplifier at an affordable price. A. Stewart Hegemans Lowther-Brociner corner horn (c. 1951, also its plaster-of-Paris-and-plywood prototype) because no loudspeaker ever sounded as good before. The original Quad ESL, for obvious reasons. Bob Carvers Amazing Loudspeaker because it was so amazingly clever (why did it have to disappear?). And, in a more fundamental sense, the Westrex stereo cutter head because it made stereo sound easily available in every home." I concur with the Ampex / Magnecord comment, kinda. Although I'm not sure I would call it high fidelity as we know it, but it did greatly expand the locations that could be recorded easily, and was vastly superior in all audio respects to the wire recorders available in those days. With few exceptions, the disk cutting lathes were restricted to studios. My dad had the Magnecord franchise for the entire northeast from 1948-mid 50's, and he/we travelled all over the region to install Magnecord's in radio stations and studios. We had a Viking deck at home, and he did as much live recording with the Magnecorder as his time permitted, usually for pay. And of course, Magnecorders also supplemented the two Presto cutting lathes in his studio. The big problem were the location mic's, which weren't nearly as advanced as the recorders or the studio mics. Somewhere I have buried tapes that include a high school district orchestra (done in 1948). If you want to hear what it sounded like, listen to J. Gorden Holt's recording made that same year, also of a high school band (original Stereophile CD Test Disk 1, track 6). p.s. The district orchestra could play better....but not by much. I'd take issue with the Hegeman-Lowther-Brociner comment, though. We had a 1950 massive JBL corner horn in the living room that sounded better than Klipshorns, the EV Patrician, and the equivalent University and Jensen models, all of which he had in his showroom at one time or another. It would be hard for me to imagine the Hegeman-Lowther-Brociner system sounding better....perhaps Peter is recalling that because it was his first taste of really fine sound...the JBL and large corner horns had the same effect on all who heard them, and to this day they remain a fine choice for mono systems. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Harry Lavo wrote:
I'd take issue with the Hegeman-Lowther-Brociner comment, though. We had a 1950 massive JBL corner horn in the living room that sounded better than Klipshorns, the EV Patrician, and the equivalent University and Jensen models, all of which he had in his showroom at one time or another. It would be hard for me to imagine the Hegeman-Lowther-Brociner system sounding better....perhaps Peter is recalling that because it was his first taste of really fine sound...the JBL and large corner horns had the same effect on all who heard them, and to this day they remain a fine choice for mono systems. His first taste of what he considered fine sound (in his early 20s) was a pair of big Altec Lansings. That's in the interview too. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
On 17 Aug 2006 02:49:28 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:
I'd take issue with the Hegeman-Lowther-Brociner comment, though. We had a 1950 massive JBL corner horn in the living room that sounded better than Klipshorns, the EV Patrician, and the equivalent University and Jensen models, all of which he had in his showroom at one time or another. It would be hard for me to imagine the Hegeman-Lowther-Brociner system sounding better....perhaps Peter is recalling that because it was his first taste of really fine sound...the JBL and large corner horns had the same effect on all who heard them, and to this day they remain a fine choice for mono systems. My father had an EV Georgian. I see someone who was trying to sell them for way too much money on ebay, but at least the pics are interesting. http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-EV-ELECTROV...QQcmdZViewItem He switched to stereo and a pair of AR3s when I was about 4, so I don't really remember much about the Georgian. I do remember it in the living room, and it was much bigger than I was. :-) I heard a pair of Klipschorns back in the early '80s at the local Klipsch dealer. They were remarkably dynamic, and could blow you right out of your seat, but I didn't feel like I wanted to own a pair or anything. |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Harry Lavo wrote:
I'd take issue with the Hegeman-Lowther-Brociner comment, though. We had a 1950 massive JBL corner horn in the living room that sounded better than Klipshorns, the EV Patrician, and the equivalent University and Jensen models, all of which he had in his showroom at one time or another. It would be hard for me to imagine the Hegeman-Lowther-Brociner system sounding better....perhaps Peter is recalling that because it was his first taste of really fine sound...the JBL and large corner horns had the same effect on all who heard them, and to this day they remain a fine choice for mono systems. Speaking of mono systems, there is a interesting character living in Japan whose idea of audio nirvana is designing triode amplifiers to drive his custom Lowther and Altec horns. His front end is an old Garrard 401 mated to an oil damped Grace tonearm and Denon DL-102. I guess being a bit modern, he also seems to own a CD player! http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/codo/index.html mp |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Steven Sullivan wrote:
there's a fine and fairly wide-ranging interview with the man in the online May '06 issueof The Audio Critic (circa his 80th birthday).." (snip) Does he discuss the Fourrier speaker controversy? |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
On 18 Aug 2006 02:26:25 GMT, "Jenn" wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote: there's a fine and fairly wide-ranging interview with the man in the online May '06 issueof The Audio Critic (circa his 80th birthday).." (snip) Does he discuss the Fourrier speaker controversy? No, but there's an interesting discussion on audioasylum about it. I didn't read the discussion completely, but it looks like it started with someone accusing a reviewer of having a business relationship with a company whose product he reviewed. Then suddenly Peter Aczel got accused, and then J. Peter Moncrieff got accused of similar things. I don't know whether or not I should post the link to the AA forum, but it shows up near the top when you search on Google for fourier peter aczel. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oogle+Sea rch One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. There's really nothing left for him to review other than CDs or DVDs. Note that I do actually think that a lot of people would be better off if they just got good speakers and decent, inexpensive electronics (with the speakers being the much more critical part), and then spent their time and money on recorded media. There is more difference between the Ozawa 4 Seasons and the Bernstein 4 Seasons than there will ever be between 2 brands of speaker cables. :-) |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Jenn wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote: there's a fine and fairly wide-ranging interview with the man in the online May '06 issueof The Audio Critic (circa his 80th birthday).." (snip) Does he discuss the Fourrier speaker controversy? No. He does talk about Ohm though. It's funny how 'your guys' always brings up Fourier, as if that, even in its worst interpretation, would somehow invalidate what Aczel says about audio generally. To make an extreme analogy, Ken Lay, for all his dubious business ethics, would still be right if he said V = I*R, right?. From what I understand, Aczel in 1980 or so published a 'review' of the Fourier speakers, which he admitted *in the review* to having helped design. It later came out that he had a 50% share in the company as well, at the time of writing the 'review'. He then went on hiatus, devoting himself entirely to said speaker company, which eventaully went belly up. During the hiatus, TAC subscribers were left in the lurch, but upon resumptuion of publication, were given credit towards new issues. He also apparenlty published an explanation of the whole affair in the resumptive issue (which I have not read). Have you ever read the original 'review'? I haven't, but I'd really like to,because subjectivie warriors like your pals mkuller and Atkinson -- who are always quick to leap in whenever Aczel's name is mentioned in forums they frequent -- claim it was a 'rave'. Yet I find this post on Audio Asylum: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/cr...ages/5094.html // Posted by mp72 (A) on December 05, 2004 at 14:07:31 In Reply to: Would you call his Fourier review "very honest"? (nt) posted by Rob Doorack on November 12, 2004 at 16:14:11: "I recommend that you get all the back issues of Audio Critic too. Aczel's review of the Fourier speaker is considered by many audiophiles to be the most egregious ethical violation in the history of audio magazines." -Rob Doorack There was no "review" in the usual sense of the word. Only the design specifications were actually discussed. The closest thing to what most people would call a review was the concluding statement which I have copied since the issue in question is no longer available. "In view of our role as godfather to the [speaker]...we've decided not to review it here in the subjective sense. The objectively verifiable design data presented should be sufficient. It's large-signal bass response alone, not to mention its time-domain characteristics make the usual comparisons unnecessary." Next is a statement admitting that they are using it as one of several speaker references, but they advise that if anyone is really interested they should go hear it themselves when it becomes available. The magazine did, in their "reference" advice section, state that the Quad/Janus speaker combination was better sounding than the Fourier prototype design; an odd thing for Aczel to say if he was somehow looking to be untruthful about the speaker. As far as being some ethical violation, I would concur if the magazine had not come out and stated up front what they were doing. I find it no different than when Brock Yates had his creation recently featured in Car and Driver, the magazine he writes for. The article stated up front that the car was a project which might be manufactured for resale, and then it was put through the paces. Ethical violations happen when people are not honest about their intentions. Now, you may not like what Mr. Aczel prints, but I don't think he was ever not open regarding the speaker. When I first read the piece (many years ago) my thought was, so what? I knew that the market would sort all this out and that it would be pretty clear soon enough regarding his conclusions about the goodness of the speaker. // So, if what I read in that post is true, we had Aczel writing a description of the design of the Fourier prototype, admitting upfront that he was involved in said design, and in the same issue, citing another speaker as sounding *better* than his. AIUI, this was also at a time when PA was still somewhat 'subjectivist' and hadn't adopted the hard line he later did. Meanwhile, Atkinson still publishes 'raves' about equipment where the *accompanying bench tests* tell a different story. He manages to wave the disparities away. He still publishes editorials about the non-utility of blind tests. Still pushes the megabuck audio jewelry whose makers advertises in Stereophile. Gee, how *conveeenient*. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
On 18 Aug 2006 18:26:51 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote:
Meanwhile, Atkinson still publishes 'raves' about equipment where the *accompanying bench tests* tell a different story. He manages to wave the disparities away. He still publishes editorials about the non-utility of blind tests. Still pushes the megabuck audio jewelry whose makers advertises in Stereophile. Gee, how *conveeenient*. I do feel that there is something not quite right with a lot of the reviews. You get all of these pages of a subjective reviewer effing the ineffable, and on the whole not really saying anything worth reading. (These subjective reviews are _so_ boring. They all read the same. Read a couple of Stereophiles and TASs, and you'll have enough of this to last a lifetime.) Then JA measures the equipment, and some of the results look interesting. Maybe there are some obvious problems with the product. But JA then shrugs his shoulders and says the reviewer liked it, so it's all good. I'll pass on commenting on blind tests for now. I really haven't seen anything that proves that there is some monkey business going on at Stereophile, with the magazine playing footsie with advertisers. Yes, there's certainly a chance there could be a bias, but I can't say for sure. I simply don't have enough information. As for the megabuck equipment, there was an audio magazine that concentrated on equipment with sensible price tags. I can only note that Stereophile is doing much better than that other magazine, so I guess the customers want to read about the really expensive audio jewelry. To some extent, I feel Stereophile and TAS are lifestyle magazines, like those glossy, expensive coffee-table magazines that people spread out to impress the yokels. So you've got a recipe for a dessert using fresh pears and raspberries, a bathroom with a bathtub large enough for the 7th Fleet, and a $90,000 turntable. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 18 Aug 2006 02:26:25 GMT, "Jenn" wrote: Steven Sullivan wrote: there's a fine and fairly wide-ranging interview with the man in the online May '06 issueof The Audio Critic (circa his 80th birthday).." (snip) Does he discuss the Fourrier speaker controversy? No, but there's an interesting discussion on audioasylum about it. I didn't read the discussion completely, but it looks like it started with someone accusing a reviewer of having a business relationship with a company whose product he reviewed. Then suddenly Peter Aczel got accused, and then J. Peter Moncrieff got accused of similar things. I don't know whether or not I should post the link to the AA forum, but it shows up near the top when you search on Google for fourier peter aczel. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oogle+Sea rch One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. Now, as regards speakers, that's not quite accurate. Aczel says he's not interested in typical suspension 'box' type speakers any more -- doesn't feel anything of further interest can be eked from that technology. He *is* interested in DSP-coupled speakers (e.g. those B&O thingies that look like Daleks) , and non-boxes like the Orions. DSP-coupled/powered speakers are probably the wave of the future anyway, so I think his instincts are correct. I'd be curious to read his review of the new NHT line (which I think is hideous, btw, though I'd love to *hear* them ; ) There's really nothing left for him to review other than CDs or DVDs. Nope, see above. There's also room treatments and DSP-based correction, of course. And if he gets articles from Rich and Nousaine, I'm there. While I'd rather not become a 'conduit' for what's written on the web zine...I do urge interseted RAHE readers to check it out, since I think it's right up their alley. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
On 18 Aug 2006 18:21:18 GMT, Stuart Krivis
wrote: There is more difference between the Ozawa 4 Seasons and the Bernstein 4 Seasons than there will ever be between 2 brands of speaker cables. :-) Agreed, and those two seem almost identical when compared with Il Giardino armonico! Kal |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Stuart Krivis wrote:
One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. Yeah, but he's 80 years old, so he doesn't really need a job. bob |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Stuart Krivis wrote:
I do feel that there is something not quite right with a lot of the reviews. You get all of these pages of a subjective reviewer effing the ineffable, and on the whole not really saying anything worth reading. (These subjective reviews are _so_ boring. They all read the same. Read a couple of Stereophiles and TASs, and you'll have enough of this to last a lifetime.) Then JA measures the equipment, and some of the results look interesting. Maybe there are some obvious problems with the product. But JA then shrugs his shoulders and says the reviewer liked it, so it's all good. Plus it goes on the Recommended Components List. Automatically. I'll pass on commenting on blind tests for now. I really haven't seen anything that proves that there is some monkey business going on at Stereophile, with the magazine playing footsie with advertisers. Yes, there's certainly a chance there could be a bias, but I can't say for sure. I simply don't have enough information. There doesn't have to be any monkey business. The job of EVERY commercial magazine is to produce copy that will attract readers that advertisers want to reach. Stereophile's advertisers don't want to reach readers who think that watts are watts. They want to reach readers who will buy the dream. So Stereophile helps them dream. As for the megabuck equipment, there was an audio magazine that concentrated on equipment with sensible price tags. I can only note that Stereophile is doing much better than that other magazine, so I guess the customers want to read about the really expensive audio jewelry. Well, that sensible magazine is perhaps the worst-edited rag in the U.S. That might also have something to do with it. bob |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
bob wrote:
Stuart Krivis wrote: One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. Yeah, but he's 80 years old, so he doesn't really need a job. And, too, even for the most hard-core objectivist, there's plenty of variation between latter day preamp/amp combos (now usually called 'AV receivers) in terms of *features* that will *definitely* manifest as audible difference(e.g. room correction). (Not that a 'true' purist would even dream of running them in anything but 'passthrough' mode ; ) ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
bob wrote:
As for the megabuck equipment, there was an audio magazine that concentrated on equipment with sensible price tags. I can only note that Stereophile is doing much better than that other magazine, so I guess the customers want to read about the really expensive audio jewelry. Well, that sensible magazine is perhaps the worst-edited rag in the U.S. That might also have something to do with it. Heh. That and the bloody Mahler fixation. And too, there's schizophrenic objectivist/subjectivist thing going on there, given the various contributors. Still, I plan to keep reading $ensible $ound. Never know when they might run a David Rich article. Now if I could just find a store that carries the July/August issue... ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Stuart Krivis wrote:
One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. There's really nothing left for him to review other than CDs or DVDs. There is more difference between the Ozawa 4 Seasons and the Bernstein 4 Seasons than there will ever be between 2 brands of speaker cables. For the usual run of the mill audiophile you are probably right. They would rather be told about magic cables, tube dampers, and so forth. So the magazine is likely not for them. But within Audio Critic's editorial philosophy, and within the pages of the Webzine, there's room for interesting things. If you want to find a cheap amplifier (because you are poor, or just don't want to spend the money on gear more expensive) you can always find something helpful. If you are looking for a truly SOA DAC (because you are rich, or don't mind spending the money) it is there. Finally, if you like to read about interesting speakers, you will not be disappointed. However, if you are looking for record player reviews, forget it. I still listen to a lot of records (since that is what I have). So there is nothing in Audio Critic to help me in this pursuit. But what really needs to be said about record players, these days, that has not already been said? Although my analog gear is very old it still works fine, so I am content to stay decidedly unmodern in this area. Besides, I am not looking to replace anything. I find most modern turntable and cartridge reviews goofy; the best ones were in the old Audio magazine. But it is a good thing for me, since I don't know if I could ever decide between the $5000 onyx, or the $7000 jade cartridge. I am a bit old fashioned, but even I have limits. Unlike Sakuma-san (see my earlier post)I would never think of playing Bud Powell on a DL-102 ball point pin using some coins taped to a Grace tonearm. On the other hand, I would not mind going to his restaurant and listening to Wagner through one of his Altec or Lowther horns. mp |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
... bob wrote: Stuart Krivis wrote: One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. Yeah, but he's 80 years old, so he doesn't really need a job. And, too, even for the most hard-core objectivist, there's plenty of variation between latter day preamp/amp combos (now usually called 'AV receivers) in terms of *features* that will *definitely* manifest as audible difference(e.g. room correction). (Not that a 'true' purist would even dream of running them in anything but 'passthrough' mode ; ) You're right. If you are a purist, you work to get the room correct and the speaker placement correct, and you use pass through. Result: better sound. That's what being a purist is all about. |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Harry Lavo wrote:
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ... bob wrote: Stuart Krivis wrote: One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. Yeah, but he's 80 years old, so he doesn't really need a job. And, too, even for the most hard-core objectivist, there's plenty of variation between latter day preamp/amp combos (now usually called 'AV receivers) in terms of *features* that will *definitely* manifest as audible difference(e.g. room correction). (Not that a 'true' purist would even dream of running them in anything but 'passthrough' mode ; ) You're right. If you are a purist, you work to get the room correct and the speaker placement correct, and you use pass through. Result: better sound. That's what being a purist is all about. So let's follow this line of reasoning...what is the 'correct' room and the 'correct' speaker placement? ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
mp wrote:
Stuart Krivis wrote: One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. There's really nothing left for him to review other than CDs or DVDs. There is more difference between the Ozawa 4 Seasons and the Bernstein 4 Seasons than there will ever be between 2 brands of speaker cables. For the usual run of the mill audiophile you are probably right. They would rather be told about magic cables, tube dampers, and so forth. So the magazine is likely not for them. But within Audio Critic's editorial philosophy, and within the pages of the Webzine, there's room for interesting things. If you want to find a cheap amplifier (because you are poor, or just don't want to spend the money on gear more expensive) you can always find something helpful. If you are looking for a truly SOA DAC (because you are rich, or don't mind spending the money) it is there. Finally, if you like to read about interesting speakers, you will not be disappointed. However, if you are looking for record player reviews, forget it. I still listen to a lot of records (since that is what I have). So there is nothing in Audio Critic to help me in this pursuit. But what really needs to be said about record players, these days, that has not already been said? Although my analog gear is very old it still works fine, so I am content to stay decidedly unmodern in this area. Besides, I am not looking to replace anything. I find most modern turntable and cartridge reviews goofy; the best ones were in the old Audio magazine. But it is a good thing for me, since I don't know if I could ever decide between the $5000 onyx, or the $7000 jade cartridge. I am a bit old fashioned, but even I have limits. Unlike Sakuma-san (see my earlier post)I would never think of playing Bud Powell on a DL-102 ball point pin using some coins taped to a Grace tonearm. On the other hand, I would not mind going to his restaurant and listening to Wagner through one of his Altec or Lowther horns. mp Western Electric horns, iirc... |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Steven Sullivan wrote:
Harry Lavo wrote: "Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ... bob wrote: Stuart Krivis wrote: One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. Yeah, but he's 80 years old, so he doesn't really need a job. And, too, even for the most hard-core objectivist, there's plenty of variation between latter day preamp/amp combos (now usually called 'AV receivers) in terms of *features* that will *definitely* manifest as audible difference(e.g. room correction). (Not that a 'true' purist would even dream of running them in anything but 'passthrough' mode ; ) You're right. If you are a purist, you work to get the room correct and the speaker placement correct, and you use pass through. Result: better sound. That's what being a purist is all about. So let's follow this line of reasoning...what is the 'correct' room and the 'correct' speaker placement? That depends completely on the speaker. I have dipoles. IMO the "correct" room has enough size to give the speakers and the listener plenty of room off of their back walls. You need enough height and width to prevent the speakers from forming their own proverbial wall. Near field listening works best and the room should be as dead as possible. Speakers should be symetrical. The speakers and listener should roughly form an equaladeral triangle. The room should be as well isolated from outside sound as possible. No room dimensions should be the same. IMO each dimension should be as dissimilar as possible from one another to avoid complimentary standing waves and each wall should be broken up as much as possible with solid objects that will reflect sound in odd directions for diffusion. Scott |
#21
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Interview with Peter Aczel
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
... Harry Lavo wrote: "Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ... bob wrote: Stuart Krivis wrote: One thing that is interesting about Aczel is that he has basically written himself out of a job. All amps, preamps, and CD players sound the same. No need for fancy wire. The Linkwitz Orions are the best speakers on the planet. Yeah, but he's 80 years old, so he doesn't really need a job. And, too, even for the most hard-core objectivist, there's plenty of variation between latter day preamp/amp combos (now usually called 'AV receivers) in terms of *features* that will *definitely* manifest as audible difference(e.g. room correction). (Not that a 'true' purist would even dream of running them in anything but 'passthrough' mode ; ) You're right. If you are a purist, you work to get the room correct and the speaker placement correct, and you use pass through. Result: better sound. That's what being a purist is all about. So let's follow this line of reasoning...what is the 'correct' room and the 'correct' speaker placement? Depends on the speaker and room. Requires knowledge of and application of good acoustic principles, which can be learned from various sources. The aim, and usual end result when the above is applied, is a reasonable flat bass response in room, with whatever peaks and valleys that remain of modest and not obtrusive importance, particularly in light of the "naturalness" of the bass response obtained. |
#22
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Steven Sullivan wrote:
Jenn wrote: Steven Sullivan wrote: there's a fine and fairly wide-ranging interview with the man in the online May '06 issueof The Audio Critic (circa his 80th birthday).." (snip) Does he discuss the Fourrier speaker controversy? No. He does talk about Ohm though. It's funny how 'your guys' always brings up Fourier, as if that, even in its worst interpretation, would somehow invalidate what Aczel says about audio generally. To make an extreme analogy, Ken Lay, for all his dubious business ethics, would still be right if he said V = I*R, right?. From what I understand, Aczel in 1980 or so published a 'review' of the Fourier speakers, which he admitted *in the review* to having helped design. It later came out that he had a 50% share in the company as well, at the time of writing the 'review'. Which he DIDN'T state *in the review^. You don't consider that to be important? He then went on hiatus, devoting himself entirely to said speaker company, which eventaully went belly up. During the hiatus, TAC subscribers were left in the lurch, but upon resumptuion of publication, were given credit towards new issues. He also apparenlty published an explanation of the whole affair in the resumptive issue (which I have not read). Have you ever read the original 'review'? Years ago, yes. I haven't, but I'd really like to,because subjectivie warriors like your pals mkuller Sorry, I don't know who that is. and Atkinson -- who are always quick to leap in whenever Aczel's name is mentioned in forums they frequent -- claim it was a 'rave'. Yet I find this post on Audio Asylum: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/cr...ages/5094.html // Posted by mp72 (A) on December 05, 2004 at 14:07:31 In Reply to: Would you call his Fourier review "very honest"? (nt) posted by Rob Doorack on November 12, 2004 at 16:14:11: "I recommend that you get all the back issues of Audio Critic too. Aczel's review of the Fourier speaker is considered by many audiophiles to be the most egregious ethical violation in the history of audio magazines." -Rob Doorack There was no "review" in the usual sense of the word. Only the design specifications were actually discussed. The closest thing to what most people would call a review was the concluding statement which I have copied since the issue in question is no longer available. "In view of our role as godfather to the [speaker]...we've decided not to review it here in the subjective sense. The objectively verifiable design data presented should be sufficient. It's large-signal bass response alone, not to mention its time-domain characteristics make the usual comparisons unnecessary." Next is a statement admitting that they are using it as one of several speaker references, but they advise that if anyone is really interested they should go hear it themselves when it becomes available. The magazine did, in their "reference" advice section, state that the Quad/Janus speaker combination was better sounding than the Fourier prototype design; an odd thing for Aczel to say if he was somehow looking to be untruthful about the speaker. Not really, as the Quad/Janus was at a much higher price point IIRC. As far as being some ethical violation, I would concur if the magazine had not come out and stated up front what they were doing. It didn't, IMO. I find it no different than when Brock Yates had his creation recently featured in Car and Driver, the magazine he writes for. The article stated up front that the car was a project which might be manufactured for resale, and then it was put through the paces. Ethical violations happen when people are not honest about their intentions. Now, you may not like what Mr. Aczel prints, but I don't think he was ever not open regarding the speaker. When I first read the piece (many years ago) my thought was, so what? I knew that the market would sort all this out and that it would be pretty clear soon enough regarding his conclusions about the goodness of the speaker. // So, if what I read in that post is true, we had Aczel writing a description of the design of the Fourier prototype, admitting upfront that he was involved in said design, But not that he stood to gain financially if you bought the speaker under review. and in the same issue, citing another speaker as sounding *better* than his. AIUI, this was also at a time when PA was still somewhat 'subjectivist' and hadn't adopted the hard line he later did. I'm not being critical of what Peter writes in general, because I haven't read anything that he has writen since the mag went away for awhile. In fact, I feel that I owe him my gratitude, because he turned me on to the fact that that there was more out there than the stuff one gets at the big-box stores (at the time, Pacific Stereo, Federated, etc.) I wandered into a store in Santa Ana, CA called Absolute Audio circa 1980, heard the Quads and picked up a copy of The Audio Critic; I had discovered "the high end". So thanks, Peter. I wrote to him not too long ago and thanked him. But, what I know of the Fourrier situation does not cast him in a good light, IMO. |
#23
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Jenn wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote: From what I understand, Aczel in 1980 or so published a 'review' of the Fourier speakers, which he admitted *in the review* to having helped design. It later came out that he had a 50% share in the company as well, at the time of writing the 'review'. Which he DIDN'T state *in the review^. You don't consider that to be important? Incomplete disclosure is a whole lot less egregious than nondisclosure. If he described himself as a co-designer, any reader with an IQ above sea level should have and would have understood the piece as a descriptive article by a product's designer, not an objective review. I agree that he should have disclosed his financial interest (although I'd assume that any designer would have *some* financial interest in the product, direct or indirect). But knowing of that interest wouldn't have made me any more skeptical than I would have been based on the disclosure that was there. He then went on hiatus, devoting himself entirely to said speaker company, which eventaully went belly up. During the hiatus, TAC subscribers were left in the lurch, but upon resumptuion of publication, were given credit towards new issues. He also apparenlty published an explanation of the whole affair in the resumptive issue (which I have not read). When a magazine ceases publication, postal regulations require it to reimburse subscribers for missed issues. This is commonly done by paying for partial subscriptions to another magazine. From this description, it looks like Aczel was for a time in violation of those regs. After all, what would have happened if the speaker company had been successful? But he made good in the end, which is what ought to matter most to the affected readers. snip There was no "review" in the usual sense of the word. Only the design specifications were actually discussed. The closest thing to what most people would call a review was the concluding statement which I have copied since the issue in question is no longer available. "In view of our role as godfather to the [speaker]...we've decided not to review it here in the subjective sense. The objectively verifiable design data presented should be sufficient. It's large-signal bass response alone, not to mention its time-domain characteristics make the usual comparisons unnecessary." In view of the above, I would say that any critic who calls the article a "review" is being disingenuous, and maybe ought to think twice before complaining about anybody else's ethics. snip But, what I know of the Fourrier situation does not cast him in a good light, IMO. Certainly not in a perfect light. But his critics doth protest too much, IMO. bob |
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Interview with Peter Aczel
On 18 Aug 2006 22:03:46 GMT, "bob" wrote:
As for the megabuck equipment, there was an audio magazine that concentrated on equipment with sensible price tags. I can only note that Stereophile is doing much better than that other magazine, so I guess the customers want to read about the really expensive audio jewelry. Well, that sensible magazine is perhaps the worst-edited rag in the U.S. That might also have something to do with it. I read it during the '80s and actually enjoyed it. Yes, the writing and editing wouldn't win any prizes, but I learned a fair bit. |
#25
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Interview with Peter Aczel
bob wrote:
Jenn wrote: Steven Sullivan wrote: From what I understand, Aczel in 1980 or so published a 'review' of the Fourier speakers, which he admitted *in the review* to having helped design. It later came out that he had a 50% share in the company as well, at the time of writing the 'review'. Which he DIDN'T state *in the review^. You don't consider that to be important? Incomplete disclosure is a whole lot less egregious than nondisclosure. If he described himself as a co-designer, any reader with an IQ above sea level should have and would have understood the piece as a descriptive article by a product's designer, not an objective review. I agree that he should have disclosed his financial interest (although I'd assume that any designer would have *some* financial interest in the product, direct or indirect). But knowing of that interest wouldn't have made me any more skeptical than I would have been based on the disclosure that was there. I have to disagree, but I understand that individuals have different levels of tollerance on these issues. He then went on hiatus, devoting himself entirely to said speaker company, which eventaully went belly up. During the hiatus, TAC subscribers were left in the lurch, but upon resumptuion of publication, were given credit towards new issues. He also apparenlty published an explanation of the whole affair in the resumptive issue (which I have not read). When a magazine ceases publication, postal regulations require it to reimburse subscribers for missed issues. This is commonly done by paying for partial subscriptions to another magazine. From this description, it looks like Aczel was for a time in violation of those regs. After all, what would have happened if the speaker company had been successful? But he made good in the end, which is what ought to matter most to the affected readers. snip There was no "review" in the usual sense of the word. Only the design specifications were actually discussed. The closest thing to what most people would call a review was the concluding statement which I have copied since the issue in question is no longer available. "In view of our role as godfather to the [speaker]...we've decided not to review it here in the subjective sense. The objectively verifiable design data presented should be sufficient. It's large-signal bass response alone, not to mention its time-domain characteristics make the usual comparisons unnecessary." In view of the above, I would say that any critic who calls the article a "review" is being disingenuous, and maybe ought to think twice before complaining about anybody else's ethics. snip But, what I know of the Fourrier situation does not cast him in a good light, IMO. Certainly not in a perfect light. But his critics doth protest too much, IMO. bob Again, we simply disagree. What would be your thoughts if this happened in, say, Stereophile? IIRC, The Audio Critic of that time didn't accept ads, claiming the high road of complete insulation from being affected by the revenue. And, again IIRC, every piece in TAC had the same "look" (i.e. low "production values"): one color on white paper, one font, etc. It looked like a review. He sang it's praises, and only later revealed that he makes money from the sale of the product. Not smart, IMO. |
#26
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 18 Aug 2006 22:03:46 GMT, "bob" wrote: As for the megabuck equipment, there was an audio magazine that concentrated on equipment with sensible price tags. I can only note that Stereophile is doing much better than that other magazine, so I guess the customers want to read about the really expensive audio jewelry. Well, that sensible magazine is perhaps the worst-edited rag in the U.S. That might also have something to do with it. I read it during the '80s and actually enjoyed it. Yes, the writing and editing wouldn't win any prizes, but I learned a fair bit. You can still learn a lot, at least from David Rich's articles. (Which I highly recommend, and for which I subscribe.) But don't expect much beyond him. bob |
#27
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 18 Aug 2006 22:03:46 GMT, "bob" wrote: As for the megabuck equipment, there was an audio magazine that concentrated on equipment with sensible price tags. I can only note that Stereophile is doing much better than that other magazine, so I guess the customers want to read about the really expensive audio jewelry. Well, that sensible magazine is perhaps the worst-edited rag in the U.S. That might also have something to do with it. I read it during the '80s and actually enjoyed it. Yes, the writing and editing wouldn't win any prizes, but I learned a fair bit. The most recent issue has interesting speaker, AVR and amp reviews, and a short-ish essay on SACD/DVD-A and HDMI, by David Rich. Also a curious reply (to a letter from Howard Ferstler), wherein the editor seems to hint that he occasionally prints woozy subjectivist claims by certain of his reviewers on the assumption his readers will realize how silly they are! It's gotten more professional looking over the past decade, and I don't recall too many typos this time around, but some of the writing could be tightened up and made clearer. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#28
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Jenn wrote:
Again, we simply disagree. What would be your thoughts if this happened in, say, Stereophile? Exactly the same. That you think it might be different says something about how you come to your own judgment, however. bob |
#29
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Interview with Peter Aczel
On 22 Aug 2006 02:32:36 GMT, "Jenn" wrote:
But, what I know of the Fourrier situation does not cast him in a good light, IMO. Certainly not in a perfect light. But his critics doth protest too much, IMO. bob Again, we simply disagree. What would be your thoughts if this happened in, say, Stereophile? I wasn't actually aware that there had been an "incident" until recently. I also have not seen the original review or any further info on it in TAC. I don't think it would matter whether it happened at Stereophile or TAC (or TAS or...). I'd feel the same. What strikes me about this though, is that a certain editor seems to be bringing it up quite a bit on the net. Why is that? :-) |
#30
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Steven Sullivan wrote:
Stuart Krivis wrote: On 18 Aug 2006 22:03:46 GMT, "bob" wrote: As for the megabuck equipment, there was an audio magazine that concentrated on equipment with sensible price tags. I can only note that Stereophile is doing much better than that other magazine, so I guess the customers want to read about the really expensive audio jewelry. Well, that sensible magazine is perhaps the worst-edited rag in the U.S. That might also have something to do with it. I read it during the '80s and actually enjoyed it. Yes, the writing and editing wouldn't win any prizes, but I learned a fair bit. The most recent issue has interesting speaker, AVR and amp reviews, and a short-ish essay on SACD/DVD-A and HDMI, by David Rich. Also a curious reply (to a letter from Howard Ferstler), wherein the editor seems to hint that he occasionally prints woozy subjectivist claims by certain of his reviewers on the assumption his readers will realize how silly they are! It's gotten more professional looking over the past decade, and I don't recall too many typos this time around, but some of the writing could be tightened up and made clearer. The biggest annoyance for me is the lack of any discernible editorial philosophy. Be objectivist, be subjectivist, or cover the controversy. But I hate starting a review and not knowing whether it's going to be a technical tour de force or a load of subjectivist claptrap. At least with Stereophile I know which parts to skip. (Most of them!) For several issues, Rich and Ferstler were going back and forth--sometimes by interjecting side comments into articles on other subjects--about which speaker measurements correlated best with perceived sonic quality. Now, Howard's a little out-matched here, but if you've got a disagreement like that, put them both on the same page and let them go at it. Besides, the music reviewers are incompetent, and I hate two-column formats. bob |
#31
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Interview with Peter Aczel
"Stuart Krivis" wrote in message
... On 22 Aug 2006 02:32:36 GMT, "Jenn" wrote: But, what I know of the Fourrier situation does not cast him in a good light, IMO. Certainly not in a perfect light. But his critics doth protest too much, IMO. bob Again, we simply disagree. What would be your thoughts if this happened in, say, Stereophile? I wasn't actually aware that there had been an "incident" until recently. I also have not seen the original review or any further info on it in TAC. I don't think it would matter whether it happened at Stereophile or TAC (or TAS or...). I'd feel the same. What strikes me about this though, is that a certain editor seems to be bringing it up quite a bit on the net. Why is that? :-) Probably because he has been accused of that here, and effectively demolished the claims against him using factual data. And because he is proud of his professionalism as an editor. Would you wish less? |
#32
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Interview with Peter Aczel
bob wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote: Stuart Krivis wrote: On 18 Aug 2006 22:03:46 GMT, "bob" wrote: As for the megabuck equipment, there was an audio magazine that concentrated on equipment with sensible price tags. I can only note that Stereophile is doing much better than that other magazine, so I guess the customers want to read about the really expensive audio jewelry. Well, that sensible magazine is perhaps the worst-edited rag in the U.S. That might also have something to do with it. I read it during the '80s and actually enjoyed it. Yes, the writing and editing wouldn't win any prizes, but I learned a fair bit. The most recent issue has interesting speaker, AVR and amp reviews, and a short-ish essay on SACD/DVD-A and HDMI, by David Rich. Also a curious reply (to a letter from Howard Ferstler), wherein the editor seems to hint that he occasionally prints woozy subjectivist claims by certain of his reviewers on the assumption his readers will realize how silly they are! It's gotten more professional looking over the past decade, and I don't recall too many typos this time around, but some of the writing could be tightened up and made clearer. The biggest annoyance for me is the lack of any discernible editorial philosophy. Be objectivist, be subjectivist, or cover the controversy. Well, Sound & Vision does the same thing...Dave Ranada and Ken Pohlmann and Ian Masters in the same issue as some Kool-Aid quaffer writing of the 'warm' sound of this or that amp or CD player. That's still better than the skew in Stereophile or TAS. But I hate starting a review and not knowing whether it's going to be a technical tour de force or a load of subjectivist claptrap. At least with Stereophile I know which parts to skip. (Most of them!) If you read a few issues back to back it becomes clear who's loopy and who's not; then it becomes a matter of remembering the names from month to month. But I agree that the fallacy of 'equal time' journalism applies too often in 'white hat' audio magazines. Aczel's the only one to draw the hard line, bless him. Besides, the music reviewers are incompetent, and I hate two-column formats. Music reviews, especially of rock/pop, in audio mags are almost uniformly embarrassing to read, IME. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#33
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Steven Sullivan wrote:
bob wrote: The biggest annoyance for me is the lack of any discernible editorial philosophy. Be objectivist, be subjectivist, or cover the controversy. Well, Sound & Vision does the same thing...Dave Ranada and Ken Pohlmann and Ian Masters in the same issue as some Kool-Aid quaffer writing of the 'warm' sound of this or that amp or CD player. Yeah, but S&V doesn't directly compare the sound of components (other than speakers, occasionally). They may describe a CD player as "warm," but not as "warmer than some other CD player." Their subjective reviews come down to, "This sounds great!" without mentioning that every other decent component on the market sounds equally great. That doesn't bother me as much. S&V is an objectivist publication that gives its readers a subjectivist thrill. Similarly, S-phile is a subjectivist publication with measurements. T$S is just all over the lot. OTOH, S&V seems to have virtually eliminated measurements from the print publication. You have to go to the Web site to see the measurements. Which is a shame, because it misses a chance to educate the broader audio market (i.e., not hard-core audiophiles) about the technical side of things. bob |
#34
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Interview with Peter Aczel
bob wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote: bob wrote: The biggest annoyance for me is the lack of any discernible editorial philosophy. Be objectivist, be subjectivist, or cover the controversy. Well, Sound & Vision does the same thing...Dave Ranada and Ken Pohlmann and Ian Masters in the same issue as some Kool-Aid quaffer writing of the 'warm' sound of this or that amp or CD player. Yeah, but S&V doesn't directly compare the sound of components (other than speakers, occasionally). They may describe a CD player as "warm," but not as "warmer than some other CD player." Once in awhile, they do. I remember being annoyed by it. It is the exception, though. OTOH, S&V seems to have virtually eliminated measurements from the print publication. You have to go to the Web site to see the measurements. Which is a shame, because it misses a chance to educate the broader audio market (i.e., not hard-core audiophiles) about the technical side of things. Indeed. It was nice to see Ranada getting more space in the last issue, but I suspect S&V is still trying to find its stable balance. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#35
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Interview with Peter Aczel
"bob" wrote in message
... Steven Sullivan wrote: bob wrote: The biggest annoyance for me is the lack of any discernible editorial philosophy. Be objectivist, be subjectivist, or cover the controversy. Well, Sound & Vision does the same thing...Dave Ranada and Ken Pohlmann and Ian Masters in the same issue as some Kool-Aid quaffer writing of the 'warm' sound of this or that amp or CD player. Yeah, but S&V doesn't directly compare the sound of components (other than speakers, occasionally). They may describe a CD player as "warm," but not as "warmer than some other CD player." Their subjective reviews come down to, "This sounds great!" without mentioning that every other decent component on the market sounds equally great. That doesn't bother me as much. S&V is an objectivist publication that gives its readers a subjectivist thrill. Similarly, S-phile is a subjectivist publication with measurements. T$S is just all over the lot. Thrill, hell. That magazine (I am a subscriber) is almost totally worthless when it comes to audio. OTOH, S&V seems to have virtually eliminated measurements from the print publication. You have to go to the Web site to see the measurements. Which is a shame, because it misses a chance to educate the broader audio market (i.e., not hard-core audiophiles) about the technical side of things. The broader public could care less. |
#36
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Steven Sullivan wrote:
Music reviews, especially of rock/pop, in audio mags are almost uniformly embarrassing to read, IME. That is because rock/pop music is almost uniformly embarrassing. mp |
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Interview with Peter Aczel
Harry Lavo wrote:
"bob" wrote in message OTOH, S&V seems to have virtually eliminated measurements from the print publication. You have to go to the Web site to see the measurements. Which is a shame, because it misses a chance to educate the broader audio market (i.e., not hard-core audiophiles) about the technical side of things. The broader public could care less. That's rather presumptuous. Besides, the broader public can learn things even when they couldn't care less. And at least with S&V, unlike the high-end rags, they have a chance of learning something that's actually true. bob |
#38
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Interview with Peter Aczel
mp wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote: Music reviews, especially of rock/pop, in audio mags are almost uniformly embarrassing to read, IME. That is because rock/pop music is almost uniformly embarrassing. LOL. OK, daddy-o. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#39
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Interview with Peter Aczel
bob wrote:
Harry Lavo wrote: "bob" wrote in message OTOH, S&V seems to have virtually eliminated measurements from the print publication. You have to go to the Web site to see the measurements. Which is a shame, because it misses a chance to educate the broader audio market (i.e., not hard-core audiophiles) about the technical side of things. The broader public could care less. That's rather presumptuous. Besides, the broader public can learn things even when they couldn't care less. And at least with S&V, unlike the high-end rags, they have a chance of learning something that's actually true. No Bob you are wrong as can be. There is plenty they can learn in the high end magazines that is true. Here let me get out a fork lift so you can paint with a broader brush next time. Scott |
#40
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Interview with Peter Aczel
On 23 Aug 2006 23:22:58 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:
What strikes me about this though, is that a certain editor seems to be bringing it up quite a bit on the net. Why is that? :-) Probably because he has been accused of that here, and effectively demolished the claims against him using factual data. And because he is proud of his professionalism as an editor. Would you wish less? So casting aspersions at Aczel is because he is proud of his professionalism? And it's because he himself was accused of similar things? I'm sorry, but the impression I got was that he was slinging mud. |
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