My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

Thanks

Simon

In article ,
Simon wrote:
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

The volume knob changes how much gain is applied to an amplifier
input. For a given output power you could have a higher voltage
input with less gain (a lower setting) or a lower voltage input
with more gain. There is no standard relationship between knob
position and gain.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum?

Maybe. Maybe not. The most you can say is that
the maximum output will be about 4dB lower assuming neither manufacturer
has lied about their output specs, the power supply doesn't sag when driving
your low impedance speakers, etc.

If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

An amplifier which requires less input attenuation will result
in a lower noise floor, but with competant equipment requiring
you to be inches from the tweeters to hear the noise this is purely
academic.

--
a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/"Home Page/a
Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease.

In article ,
Simon wrote:
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

The volume knob changes how much gain is applied to an amplifier
input. For a given output power you could have a higher voltage
input with less gain (a lower setting) or a lower voltage input
with more gain. There is no standard relationship between knob
position and gain.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum?

Maybe. Maybe not. The most you can say is that
the maximum output will be about 4dB lower assuming neither manufacturer
has lied about their output specs, the power supply doesn't sag when driving
your low impedance speakers, etc.

If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

An amplifier which requires less input attenuation will result
in a lower noise floor, but with competant equipment requiring
you to be inches from the tweeters to hear the noise this is purely
academic.

--
a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/"Home Page/a
Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease.

In article ,
Simon wrote:
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

The volume knob changes how much gain is applied to an amplifier
input. For a given output power you could have a higher voltage
input with less gain (a lower setting) or a lower voltage input
with more gain. There is no standard relationship between knob
position and gain.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum?

Maybe. Maybe not. The most you can say is that
the maximum output will be about 4dB lower assuming neither manufacturer
has lied about their output specs, the power supply doesn't sag when driving
your low impedance speakers, etc.

If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

An amplifier which requires less input attenuation will result
in a lower noise floor, but with competant equipment requiring
you to be inches from the tweeters to hear the noise this is purely
academic.

--
a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/"Home Page/a
Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease.

In article ,
Simon wrote:
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

The volume knob changes how much gain is applied to an amplifier
input. For a given output power you could have a higher voltage
input with less gain (a lower setting) or a lower voltage input
with more gain. There is no standard relationship between knob
position and gain.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum?

Maybe. Maybe not. The most you can say is that
the maximum output will be about 4dB lower assuming neither manufacturer
has lied about their output specs, the power supply doesn't sag when driving
your low impedance speakers, etc.

If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

An amplifier which requires less input attenuation will result
in a lower noise floor, but with competant equipment requiring
you to be inches from the tweeters to hear the noise this is purely
academic.

--
a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/"Home Page/a
Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease.

"Simon" wrote in message
om...
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

Thanks

Simon
Yes, It is a good idea to get another brand. I repaired a Sony that was
locked in protect mode. It had two dead short output transistors a resistor
with the side blown off and a swollen cap. Replacing these got it back. I
had a handycam that died, top end walkmen mechanical cassette drive failures
and other Sony products that failed early and without abuse. Other brands I
owned always lasted much longer. it's a shame because Sony makes products
with the performance and features I wanted.

Well I must be thick headed, because I bought another Sony walkman. It is
the cassette player with TV and weather bands. When I tap it while listening
to AM, I get a scratchy noise in my headphones. Yep, something loose inside.
At leat this one is only $30.
John

"Simon" wrote in message
om...
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

Thanks

Simon
Yes, It is a good idea to get another brand. I repaired a Sony that was
locked in protect mode. It had two dead short output transistors a resistor
with the side blown off and a swollen cap. Replacing these got it back. I
had a handycam that died, top end walkmen mechanical cassette drive failures
and other Sony products that failed early and without abuse. Other brands I
owned always lasted much longer. it's a shame because Sony makes products
with the performance and features I wanted.

Well I must be thick headed, because I bought another Sony walkman. It is
the cassette player with TV and weather bands. When I tap it while listening
to AM, I get a scratchy noise in my headphones. Yep, something loose inside.
At leat this one is only $30.
John

"Simon" wrote in message
om...
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

Thanks

Simon
Yes, It is a good idea to get another brand. I repaired a Sony that was
locked in protect mode. It had two dead short output transistors a resistor
with the side blown off and a swollen cap. Replacing these got it back. I
had a handycam that died, top end walkmen mechanical cassette drive failures
and other Sony products that failed early and without abuse. Other brands I
owned always lasted much longer. it's a shame because Sony makes products
with the performance and features I wanted.

Well I must be thick headed, because I bought another Sony walkman. It is
the cassette player with TV and weather bands. When I tap it while listening
to AM, I get a scratchy noise in my headphones. Yep, something loose inside.
At leat this one is only $30.
John

"Simon" wrote in message
om...
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

Thanks

Simon
Yes, It is a good idea to get another brand. I repaired a Sony that was
locked in protect mode. It had two dead short output transistors a resistor
with the side blown off and a swollen cap. Replacing these got it back. I
had a handycam that died, top end walkmen mechanical cassette drive failures
and other Sony products that failed early and without abuse. Other brands I
owned always lasted much longer. it's a shame because Sony makes products
with the performance and features I wanted.

Well I must be thick headed, because I bought another Sony walkman. It is
the cassette player with TV and weather bands. When I tap it while listening
to AM, I get a scratchy noise in my headphones. Yep, something loose inside.
At leat this one is only $30.
John

In , on 04/30/04
at 10:32 AM, (Simon) said:

My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

There is no standard that relates rotation of the volume control and
how loud things are in the room or the power of the unit. I do notice
that the lower quality units tend to require less rotation before they
become "loud". To a certain market segment this is a good feature. Many
have related to me that, "it was a powerful unit because I only had to
crack the volume control before it blew me out of the room". These
customers will complain about higher quality, more powerful units that
require more volume control rotation for the same sound level --
claiming the unit is not as powerful.

If your protect light is comming on because you are playing too loud,
the 40W unit will not work for you. I don't know what "1/4 travel"
means for your unit. Some units don't get much louder beyond 1/2. It
also depends on what you are playing. Compact Disc players tend to be
somewhat loud and Phono's are not so loud. Some Compact Discs are
recorded louder than others.

As long as the unit has adequate ventilation and you are operating the
unit within it's design limits, there is very little down side for
running the new unit closer to its limit than you are the Sony. (there
is a complex relationship between operating conditions and long term
reliability.)

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 04/30/04
at 10:32 AM, (Simon) said:

My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

There is no standard that relates rotation of the volume control and
how loud things are in the room or the power of the unit. I do notice
that the lower quality units tend to require less rotation before they
become "loud". To a certain market segment this is a good feature. Many
have related to me that, "it was a powerful unit because I only had to
crack the volume control before it blew me out of the room". These
customers will complain about higher quality, more powerful units that
require more volume control rotation for the same sound level --
claiming the unit is not as powerful.

If your protect light is comming on because you are playing too loud,
the 40W unit will not work for you. I don't know what "1/4 travel"
means for your unit. Some units don't get much louder beyond 1/2. It
also depends on what you are playing. Compact Disc players tend to be
somewhat loud and Phono's are not so loud. Some Compact Discs are
recorded louder than others.

As long as the unit has adequate ventilation and you are operating the
unit within it's design limits, there is very little down side for
running the new unit closer to its limit than you are the Sony. (there
is a complex relationship between operating conditions and long term
reliability.)

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 04/30/04
at 10:32 AM, (Simon) said:

My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

There is no standard that relates rotation of the volume control and
how loud things are in the room or the power of the unit. I do notice
that the lower quality units tend to require less rotation before they
become "loud". To a certain market segment this is a good feature. Many
have related to me that, "it was a powerful unit because I only had to
crack the volume control before it blew me out of the room". These
customers will complain about higher quality, more powerful units that
require more volume control rotation for the same sound level --
claiming the unit is not as powerful.

If your protect light is comming on because you are playing too loud,
the 40W unit will not work for you. I don't know what "1/4 travel"
means for your unit. Some units don't get much louder beyond 1/2. It
also depends on what you are playing. Compact Disc players tend to be
somewhat loud and Phono's are not so loud. Some Compact Discs are
recorded louder than others.

As long as the unit has adequate ventilation and you are operating the
unit within it's design limits, there is very little down side for
running the new unit closer to its limit than you are the Sony. (there
is a complex relationship between operating conditions and long term
reliability.)

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 04/30/04
at 10:32 AM, (Simon) said:

My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

There is no standard that relates rotation of the volume control and
how loud things are in the room or the power of the unit. I do notice
that the lower quality units tend to require less rotation before they
become "loud". To a certain market segment this is a good feature. Many
have related to me that, "it was a powerful unit because I only had to
crack the volume control before it blew me out of the room". These
customers will complain about higher quality, more powerful units that
require more volume control rotation for the same sound level --
claiming the unit is not as powerful.

If your protect light is comming on because you are playing too loud,
the 40W unit will not work for you. I don't know what "1/4 travel"
means for your unit. Some units don't get much louder beyond 1/2. It
also depends on what you are playing. Compact Disc players tend to be
somewhat loud and Phono's are not so loud. Some Compact Discs are
recorded louder than others.

As long as the unit has adequate ventilation and you are operating the
unit within it's design limits, there is very little down side for
running the new unit closer to its limit than you are the Sony. (there
is a complex relationship between operating conditions and long term
reliability.)

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

(Drew Eckhardt) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Simon wrote:
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

The volume knob changes how much gain is applied to an amplifier
input. For a given output power you could have a higher voltage
input with less gain (a lower setting) or a lower voltage input
with more gain. There is no standard relationship between knob
position and gain.

More to the point, since the actual power delivered to the speaker
is a comples function of amplifier gain, input signal level,
loudspeaker impedance vs frequency and the frequency content of the
material being played at any given instant, there is no standard
correlation between knob position and power.

To illustrate this point vividly, if you turned the volume control
ALL the way up and had nothing playing, how much power do you think
is being delivered to the speaker? (hint, if you answered "almost none
at all") you'd be just about 100% correct)

(Drew Eckhardt) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Simon wrote:
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

The volume knob changes how much gain is applied to an amplifier
input. For a given output power you could have a higher voltage
input with less gain (a lower setting) or a lower voltage input
with more gain. There is no standard relationship between knob
position and gain.

More to the point, since the actual power delivered to the speaker
is a comples function of amplifier gain, input signal level,
loudspeaker impedance vs frequency and the frequency content of the
material being played at any given instant, there is no standard
correlation between knob position and power.

To illustrate this point vividly, if you turned the volume control
ALL the way up and had nothing playing, how much power do you think
is being delivered to the speaker? (hint, if you answered "almost none
at all") you'd be just about 100% correct)

(Drew Eckhardt) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Simon wrote:
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

The volume knob changes how much gain is applied to an amplifier
input. For a given output power you could have a higher voltage
input with less gain (a lower setting) or a lower voltage input
with more gain. There is no standard relationship between knob
position and gain.

More to the point, since the actual power delivered to the speaker
is a comples function of amplifier gain, input signal level,
loudspeaker impedance vs frequency and the frequency content of the
material being played at any given instant, there is no standard
correlation between knob position and power.

To illustrate this point vividly, if you turned the volume control
ALL the way up and had nothing playing, how much power do you think
is being delivered to the speaker? (hint, if you answered "almost none
at all") you'd be just about 100% correct)

(Drew Eckhardt) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Simon wrote:
My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

The volume knob changes how much gain is applied to an amplifier
input. For a given output power you could have a higher voltage
input with less gain (a lower setting) or a lower voltage input
with more gain. There is no standard relationship between knob
position and gain.

More to the point, since the actual power delivered to the speaker
is a comples function of amplifier gain, input signal level,
loudspeaker impedance vs frequency and the frequency content of the
material being played at any given instant, there is no standard
correlation between knob position and power.

To illustrate this point vividly, if you turned the volume control
ALL the way up and had nothing playing, how much power do you think
is being delivered to the speaker? (hint, if you answered "almost none
at all") you'd be just about 100% correct)

snip.....

If your protect light is comming on because you are playing too loud,
the 40W unit will not work for you. I don't know what "1/4 travel"
means for your unit. Some units don't get much louder beyond 1/2. It
also depends on what you are playing. Compact Disc players tend to be
somewhat loud and Phono's are not so loud. Some Compact Discs are
recorded louder than others.



Thank for all the responses

I do not believe the "PROTECT" is due to being too loud - There are
times when listening to background, low volume, music will stop due to
the amp cutting out. I cannot even start to find a pattern to when
this happening. Just about each time is different - different inputs
and volume levels.

I guess my intended question was difficult to answer - the only real
way to find out is to plug it in and listen - if I am happy with the
output quality and level then it will do. It seems from the replies
there should be no damage if I need to crank it up for any reason.

Thanks again for the replies

Simon

snip.....

If your protect light is comming on because you are playing too loud,
the 40W unit will not work for you. I don't know what "1/4 travel"
means for your unit. Some units don't get much louder beyond 1/2. It
also depends on what you are playing. Compact Disc players tend to be
somewhat loud and Phono's are not so loud. Some Compact Discs are
recorded louder than others.



Thank for all the responses

I do not believe the "PROTECT" is due to being too loud - There are
times when listening to background, low volume, music will stop due to
the amp cutting out. I cannot even start to find a pattern to when
this happening. Just about each time is different - different inputs
and volume levels.

I guess my intended question was difficult to answer - the only real
way to find out is to plug it in and listen - if I am happy with the
output quality and level then it will do. It seems from the replies
there should be no damage if I need to crank it up for any reason.

Thanks again for the replies

Simon

snip.....

If your protect light is comming on because you are playing too loud,
the 40W unit will not work for you. I don't know what "1/4 travel"
means for your unit. Some units don't get much louder beyond 1/2. It
also depends on what you are playing. Compact Disc players tend to be
somewhat loud and Phono's are not so loud. Some Compact Discs are
recorded louder than others.



Thank for all the responses

I do not believe the "PROTECT" is due to being too loud - There are
times when listening to background, low volume, music will stop due to
the amp cutting out. I cannot even start to find a pattern to when
this happening. Just about each time is different - different inputs
and volume levels.

I guess my intended question was difficult to answer - the only real
way to find out is to plug it in and listen - if I am happy with the
output quality and level then it will do. It seems from the replies
there should be no damage if I need to crank it up for any reason.

Thanks again for the replies

Simon

snip.....

If your protect light is comming on because you are playing too loud,
the 40W unit will not work for you. I don't know what "1/4 travel"
means for your unit. Some units don't get much louder beyond 1/2. It
also depends on what you are playing. Compact Disc players tend to be
somewhat loud and Phono's are not so loud. Some Compact Discs are
recorded louder than others.



Thank for all the responses

I do not believe the "PROTECT" is due to being too loud - There are
times when listening to background, low volume, music will stop due to
the amp cutting out. I cannot even start to find a pattern to when
this happening. Just about each time is different - different inputs
and volume levels.

I guess my intended question was difficult to answer - the only real
way to find out is to plug it in and listen - if I am happy with the
output quality and level then it will do. It seems from the replies
there should be no damage if I need to crank it up for any reason.

Thanks again for the replies

Simon

In , on 05/01/04
at 01:06 AM, (Simon) said:

[ ... ]

It seems from the replies there should be no damage
if I need to crank it up for any reason.

I don't like that conclusion. While most equipment is OK for an
occasional, short transgression, you'll damage something if you
continually overload things.

The problem is that, from the imprecise discription of your situation,
we cannot know exactly what your operating conditions are. By saying
this, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but you would need some
instruments, take some measurements, and report your findings. Then we
could offer more precise, meaninful advice. Even with precise
measurements, however, you might not like our advice because the
meaning of "loud" varies with each individual. I have a customer who
constantly complains about his system not being "loud enough".
Unfortunately, his "not loud enough" is in my physical pain region. If
his home was a workplace, OSHA would fine him and shut him down, but
(in his opinion) it still isn't "loud" enough. (Social standing has
nothing to do with "loud". This individual is a respected physician and
department head in a top rated university teaching hospital who likes
his music "loud".)

Try disconnecting your speakers, play the system at your normal
listening level (volume control rotation) and watch for protection
incidents. If the unit goes into protection, it is probably on it's way
to failure. If it works OK without any speakers, there might be a
problem with your wiring or the speakers. Note that because the unit
seems to recover from one of these incidents, the failure might be
relatively minor -- possibly a bad connection that could be easily and
inexpensively repaired. Major failures are not reversible (parts must
be replaced) and will typically blow a fuse.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 05/01/04
at 01:06 AM, (Simon) said:

[ ... ]

It seems from the replies there should be no damage
if I need to crank it up for any reason.

I don't like that conclusion. While most equipment is OK for an
occasional, short transgression, you'll damage something if you
continually overload things.

The problem is that, from the imprecise discription of your situation,
we cannot know exactly what your operating conditions are. By saying
this, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but you would need some
instruments, take some measurements, and report your findings. Then we
could offer more precise, meaninful advice. Even with precise
measurements, however, you might not like our advice because the
meaning of "loud" varies with each individual. I have a customer who
constantly complains about his system not being "loud enough".
Unfortunately, his "not loud enough" is in my physical pain region. If
his home was a workplace, OSHA would fine him and shut him down, but
(in his opinion) it still isn't "loud" enough. (Social standing has
nothing to do with "loud". This individual is a respected physician and
department head in a top rated university teaching hospital who likes
his music "loud".)

Try disconnecting your speakers, play the system at your normal
listening level (volume control rotation) and watch for protection
incidents. If the unit goes into protection, it is probably on it's way
to failure. If it works OK without any speakers, there might be a
problem with your wiring or the speakers. Note that because the unit
seems to recover from one of these incidents, the failure might be
relatively minor -- possibly a bad connection that could be easily and
inexpensively repaired. Major failures are not reversible (parts must
be replaced) and will typically blow a fuse.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 05/01/04
at 01:06 AM, (Simon) said:

[ ... ]

It seems from the replies there should be no damage
if I need to crank it up for any reason.

I don't like that conclusion. While most equipment is OK for an
occasional, short transgression, you'll damage something if you
continually overload things.

The problem is that, from the imprecise discription of your situation,
we cannot know exactly what your operating conditions are. By saying
this, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but you would need some
instruments, take some measurements, and report your findings. Then we
could offer more precise, meaninful advice. Even with precise
measurements, however, you might not like our advice because the
meaning of "loud" varies with each individual. I have a customer who
constantly complains about his system not being "loud enough".
Unfortunately, his "not loud enough" is in my physical pain region. If
his home was a workplace, OSHA would fine him and shut him down, but
(in his opinion) it still isn't "loud" enough. (Social standing has
nothing to do with "loud". This individual is a respected physician and
department head in a top rated university teaching hospital who likes
his music "loud".)

Try disconnecting your speakers, play the system at your normal
listening level (volume control rotation) and watch for protection
incidents. If the unit goes into protection, it is probably on it's way
to failure. If it works OK without any speakers, there might be a
problem with your wiring or the speakers. Note that because the unit
seems to recover from one of these incidents, the failure might be
relatively minor -- possibly a bad connection that could be easily and
inexpensively repaired. Major failures are not reversible (parts must
be replaced) and will typically blow a fuse.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 05/01/04
at 01:06 AM, (Simon) said:

[ ... ]

It seems from the replies there should be no damage
if I need to crank it up for any reason.

I don't like that conclusion. While most equipment is OK for an
occasional, short transgression, you'll damage something if you
continually overload things.

The problem is that, from the imprecise discription of your situation,
we cannot know exactly what your operating conditions are. By saying
this, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but you would need some
instruments, take some measurements, and report your findings. Then we
could offer more precise, meaninful advice. Even with precise
measurements, however, you might not like our advice because the
meaning of "loud" varies with each individual. I have a customer who
constantly complains about his system not being "loud enough".
Unfortunately, his "not loud enough" is in my physical pain region. If
his home was a workplace, OSHA would fine him and shut him down, but
(in his opinion) it still isn't "loud" enough. (Social standing has
nothing to do with "loud". This individual is a respected physician and
department head in a top rated university teaching hospital who likes
his music "loud".)

Try disconnecting your speakers, play the system at your normal
listening level (volume control rotation) and watch for protection
incidents. If the unit goes into protection, it is probably on it's way
to failure. If it works OK without any speakers, there might be a
problem with your wiring or the speakers. Note that because the unit
seems to recover from one of these incidents, the failure might be
relatively minor -- possibly a bad connection that could be easily and
inexpensively repaired. Major failures are not reversible (parts must
be replaced) and will typically blow a fuse.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

[ ... ]

The problem is that, from the imprecise discription of your situation,
we cannot know exactly what your operating conditions are. By saying
this, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but you would need some
instruments, take some measurements, and report your findings. Then we
could offer more precise, meaninful advice. Even with precise
measurements, however, you might not like our advice because the
meaning of "loud" varies with each individual. I have a customer who
constantly complains about his system not being "loud enough".
Unfortunately, his "not loud enough" is in my physical pain region. If
his home was a workplace, OSHA would fine him and shut him down, but
(in his opinion) it still isn't "loud" enough. (Social standing has
nothing to do with "loud". This individual is a respected physician and
department head in a top rated university teaching hospital who likes
his music "loud".)

Try disconnecting your speakers, play the system at your normal
listening level (volume control rotation) and watch for protection
incidents. If the unit goes into protection, it is probably on it's way
to failure. If it works OK without any speakers, there might be a
problem with your wiring or the speakers. Note that because the unit
seems to recover from one of these incidents, the failure might be
relatively minor -- possibly a bad connection that could be easily and
inexpensively repaired. Major failures are not reversible (parts must
be replaced) and will typically blow a fuse.


Fair comments about "loud" and peoples perception, also appreciate
about my inprecise statements and question. Good advice about
disconnecting the speakers, I assumed it would cause damage if I ran
it this way.

Thanks for your help will continue on.....

Simon

[ ... ]

The problem is that, from the imprecise discription of your situation,
we cannot know exactly what your operating conditions are. By saying
this, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but you would need some
instruments, take some measurements, and report your findings. Then we
could offer more precise, meaninful advice. Even with precise
measurements, however, you might not like our advice because the
meaning of "loud" varies with each individual. I have a customer who
constantly complains about his system not being "loud enough".
Unfortunately, his "not loud enough" is in my physical pain region. If
his home was a workplace, OSHA would fine him and shut him down, but
(in his opinion) it still isn't "loud" enough. (Social standing has
nothing to do with "loud". This individual is a respected physician and
department head in a top rated university teaching hospital who likes
his music "loud".)

Try disconnecting your speakers, play the system at your normal
listening level (volume control rotation) and watch for protection
incidents. If the unit goes into protection, it is probably on it's way
to failure. If it works OK without any speakers, there might be a
problem with your wiring or the speakers. Note that because the unit
seems to recover from one of these incidents, the failure might be
relatively minor -- possibly a bad connection that could be easily and
inexpensively repaired. Major failures are not reversible (parts must
be replaced) and will typically blow a fuse.


Fair comments about "loud" and peoples perception, also appreciate
about my inprecise statements and question. Good advice about
disconnecting the speakers, I assumed it would cause damage if I ran
it this way.

Thanks for your help will continue on.....

Simon

[ ... ]

The problem is that, from the imprecise discription of your situation,
we cannot know exactly what your operating conditions are. By saying
this, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but you would need some
instruments, take some measurements, and report your findings. Then we
could offer more precise, meaninful advice. Even with precise
measurements, however, you might not like our advice because the
meaning of "loud" varies with each individual. I have a customer who
constantly complains about his system not being "loud enough".
Unfortunately, his "not loud enough" is in my physical pain region. If
his home was a workplace, OSHA would fine him and shut him down, but
(in his opinion) it still isn't "loud" enough. (Social standing has
nothing to do with "loud". This individual is a respected physician and
department head in a top rated university teaching hospital who likes
his music "loud".)

Try disconnecting your speakers, play the system at your normal
listening level (volume control rotation) and watch for protection
incidents. If the unit goes into protection, it is probably on it's way
to failure. If it works OK without any speakers, there might be a
problem with your wiring or the speakers. Note that because the unit
seems to recover from one of these incidents, the failure might be
relatively minor -- possibly a bad connection that could be easily and
inexpensively repaired. Major failures are not reversible (parts must
be replaced) and will typically blow a fuse.


Fair comments about "loud" and peoples perception, also appreciate
about my inprecise statements and question. Good advice about
disconnecting the speakers, I assumed it would cause damage if I ran
it this way.

Thanks for your help will continue on.....

Simon

[ ... ]

The problem is that, from the imprecise discription of your situation,
we cannot know exactly what your operating conditions are. By saying
this, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but you would need some
instruments, take some measurements, and report your findings. Then we
could offer more precise, meaninful advice. Even with precise
measurements, however, you might not like our advice because the
meaning of "loud" varies with each individual. I have a customer who
constantly complains about his system not being "loud enough".
Unfortunately, his "not loud enough" is in my physical pain region. If
his home was a workplace, OSHA would fine him and shut him down, but
(in his opinion) it still isn't "loud" enough. (Social standing has
nothing to do with "loud". This individual is a respected physician and
department head in a top rated university teaching hospital who likes
his music "loud".)

Try disconnecting your speakers, play the system at your normal
listening level (volume control rotation) and watch for protection
incidents. If the unit goes into protection, it is probably on it's way
to failure. If it works OK without any speakers, there might be a
problem with your wiring or the speakers. Note that because the unit
seems to recover from one of these incidents, the failure might be
relatively minor -- possibly a bad connection that could be easily and
inexpensively repaired. Major failures are not reversible (parts must
be replaced) and will typically blow a fuse.


Fair comments about "loud" and peoples perception, also appreciate
about my inprecise statements and question. Good advice about
disconnecting the speakers, I assumed it would cause damage if I ran
it this way.

Thanks for your help will continue on.....

Simon

In , on 05/02/04
at 02:21 AM, (Simon) said:

[ ... ]

Good advice about
disconnecting the speakers, I assumed it would cause damage if I ran
it this way.

Vacuum tube gear designed prior to the 1960's had problems when
operating without speakers, modern gear does not have these problems.
The math necessary to design a unit without the stability problem was
not available to undergraduate engineers prior to the late 1950's. If
the engineer learned his or her trade without this math, their designs
*MAY* have trouble when no speakers are connected. Using the new math,
engineers can guarantee that this problem will not exist. Prior to the
math, it was hit or miss.

This math came along with the first group of young engineers who were
familiar with transistors. It was this accident of timing that caused
the tube designs of the day to be unstable while early transistor
designs were stable.

I am very careful to always connect a "load" (speakers or a resistor)
to old, classic tube designs. I have never had a problem with newer,
stable tube or transistor designs operating into an open circuit (no
connection to the speaker terminals). (and this experience spans
thousands of units).

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 05/02/04
at 02:21 AM, (Simon) said:

[ ... ]

Good advice about
disconnecting the speakers, I assumed it would cause damage if I ran
it this way.

Vacuum tube gear designed prior to the 1960's had problems when
operating without speakers, modern gear does not have these problems.
The math necessary to design a unit without the stability problem was
not available to undergraduate engineers prior to the late 1950's. If
the engineer learned his or her trade without this math, their designs
*MAY* have trouble when no speakers are connected. Using the new math,
engineers can guarantee that this problem will not exist. Prior to the
math, it was hit or miss.

This math came along with the first group of young engineers who were
familiar with transistors. It was this accident of timing that caused
the tube designs of the day to be unstable while early transistor
designs were stable.

I am very careful to always connect a "load" (speakers or a resistor)
to old, classic tube designs. I have never had a problem with newer,
stable tube or transistor designs operating into an open circuit (no
connection to the speaker terminals). (and this experience spans
thousands of units).

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 05/02/04
at 02:21 AM, (Simon) said:

[ ... ]

Good advice about
disconnecting the speakers, I assumed it would cause damage if I ran
it this way.

Vacuum tube gear designed prior to the 1960's had problems when
operating without speakers, modern gear does not have these problems.
The math necessary to design a unit without the stability problem was
not available to undergraduate engineers prior to the late 1950's. If
the engineer learned his or her trade without this math, their designs
*MAY* have trouble when no speakers are connected. Using the new math,
engineers can guarantee that this problem will not exist. Prior to the
math, it was hit or miss.

This math came along with the first group of young engineers who were
familiar with transistors. It was this accident of timing that caused
the tube designs of the day to be unstable while early transistor
designs were stable.

I am very careful to always connect a "load" (speakers or a resistor)
to old, classic tube designs. I have never had a problem with newer,
stable tube or transistor designs operating into an open circuit (no
connection to the speaker terminals). (and this experience spans
thousands of units).

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 05/02/04
at 02:21 AM, (Simon) said:

[ ... ]

Good advice about
disconnecting the speakers, I assumed it would cause damage if I ran
it this way.

Vacuum tube gear designed prior to the 1960's had problems when
operating without speakers, modern gear does not have these problems.
The math necessary to design a unit without the stability problem was
not available to undergraduate engineers prior to the late 1950's. If
the engineer learned his or her trade without this math, their designs
*MAY* have trouble when no speakers are connected. Using the new math,
engineers can guarantee that this problem will not exist. Prior to the
math, it was hit or miss.

This math came along with the first group of young engineers who were
familiar with transistors. It was this accident of timing that caused
the tube designs of the day to be unstable while early transistor
designs were stable.

I am very careful to always connect a "load" (speakers or a resistor)
to old, classic tube designs. I have never had a problem with newer,
stable tube or transistor designs operating into an open circuit (no
connection to the speaker terminals). (and this experience spans
thousands of units).

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

On 1 May 2004 01:06:42 -0700, (Simon) wrote:
It seems from the replies
there should be no damage if I need to crank it up for any reason.

This is not correct.
If the amplifier is clipping, then you can ruin your speakers.
You will be pushing all sorts of ugly waveforms out the speaker
wires, including a lot of ultrasonic stuff. It can easily fry
your tweeter long before blood runs out your ears.

Just a word to the wise

Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/

On 1 May 2004 01:06:42 -0700, (Simon) wrote:
It seems from the replies
there should be no damage if I need to crank it up for any reason.

This is not correct.
If the amplifier is clipping, then you can ruin your speakers.
You will be pushing all sorts of ugly waveforms out the speaker
wires, including a lot of ultrasonic stuff. It can easily fry
your tweeter long before blood runs out your ears.

Just a word to the wise

Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/

On 1 May 2004 01:06:42 -0700, (Simon) wrote:
It seems from the replies
there should be no damage if I need to crank it up for any reason.

This is not correct.
If the amplifier is clipping, then you can ruin your speakers.
You will be pushing all sorts of ugly waveforms out the speaker
wires, including a lot of ultrasonic stuff. It can easily fry
your tweeter long before blood runs out your ears.

Just a word to the wise

Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/

On 1 May 2004 01:06:42 -0700, (Simon) wrote:
It seems from the replies
there should be no damage if I need to crank it up for any reason.

This is not correct.
If the amplifier is clipping, then you can ruin your speakers.
You will be pushing all sorts of ugly waveforms out the speaker
wires, including a lot of ultrasonic stuff. It can easily fry
your tweeter long before blood runs out your ears.

Just a word to the wise

Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/

My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

Thanks

Simon


The difference between 40 Watts and 100 Watts is only slightly over 3dB
(assuming same loas and specs given into same load.

Depending on the amplifier design, you may not hear any difference.

I have a 200W/channel amp and a high current 45 W/channel amp. The 45 Watt amp
sounds better and can drive my speakkers to neighbor annoying levels very
easily.



Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

Thanks

Simon


The difference between 40 Watts and 100 Watts is only slightly over 3dB
(assuming same loas and specs given into same load.

Depending on the amplifier design, you may not hear any difference.

I have a 200W/channel amp and a high current 45 W/channel amp. The 45 Watt amp
sounds better and can drive my speakkers to neighbor annoying levels very
easily.



Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

My current Sony amp is on its last legs with "PROTECT" in the display
a regular occurance. My question relates to the 100w + 100w specified
in stereo mode. I rarely have the volume knob past 1/4 travel and
wonder if I need this amount of power for the replacement.

I am interested in moving to a smaller form factor receiver - the
panasonic SA-XR15 - which is specified as 40W per channel. Does this
mean to get the same volume effect in my house I will need to increase
the control to near its maximum? If this is the case what will be the
impact on the Rx itself? Will it have any detrimental effect?

Thanks

Simon


The difference between 40 Watts and 100 Watts is only slightly over 3dB
(assuming same loas and specs given into same load.

Depending on the amplifier design, you may not hear any difference.

I have a 200W/channel amp and a high current 45 W/channel amp. The 45 Watt amp
sounds better and can drive my speakkers to neighbor annoying levels very
easily.



Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty