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Guitrzman
 
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Default Old school, old dog, goes back to school

Teaching an old dog new tricks. If you have ever tried it, it can be
frustrating; especially if your the dog.

I have an old-school engineering background, large format console, lots
of channels, EQ's, insert for processing, then bussing to those lovely
2" behemoths. Inline monitoring design... it was all so easy.. right
there in front of you.. all hands on.

Now I need to set up a digistudio around a ProTools HD system and I find
myself pulling out my hair to know what to put around it. I have been a
faithful MOTU DP user in my last few years. But never needing to record
more than one or two live tracks at a time, a couple of nice channel
strips have served me well. But now I need at least 16 simultaneous
inputs, and I hate mouse mixing. So I want some kind of front end where
I can use EQ and Dynamics on each input BEFORE it hits the digital
realm, easy to use foldback system, then have some tactile controller to
mix and control the DAW with. It there such a beast? or am I looking at
a rack full of pre's, and eq's and comp's and some control surface for
the back end?

Is there a digital mixer where the eq and dynamics won't induce a
perceived latency that you have found that works and sounds great? I am
just not savvy on the new stuff to know. Your expert advice is
appreciated.

Ron
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Arny Krueger
 
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"Guitrzman" wrote in
message

Teaching an old dog new tricks. If you have ever tried
it, it can be frustrating; especially if your the dog.

I have an old-school engineering background, large format
console, lots of channels, EQ's, insert for processing,
then bussing to those lovely 2" behemoths. Inline
monitoring design... it was all so easy.. right there in
front of you.. all hands on.

Now I need to set up a digistudio around a ProTools HD
system and I find myself pulling out my hair to know what
to put around it. I have been a faithful MOTU DP user in
my last few years. But never needing to record more than
one or two live tracks at a time, a couple of nice
channel strips have served me well. But now I need at
least 16 simultaneous inputs, and I hate mouse mixing.
So I want some kind of front end where I can use EQ and
Dynamics on each input BEFORE it hits the digital realm,
easy to use foldback system, then have some tactile
controller to mix and control the DAW with. It there
such a beast? or am I looking at a rack full of pre's,
and eq's and comp's and some control surface for the back
end?


If you want some preamps, some eq, some dynamics, some EFX,
and what looks like a lot like a mixer's front panel in one
fairly-priced box, then you've just described any of a
number of different digital mixers.

Is there a digital mixer where the eq and dynamics won't
induce a perceived latency that you have found that works
and sounds great?


Most people with digital mixers seem to think they have eq
and dynamics doesn't induce a perceived latency. FWIW I've
hooked a good mic up to my 02r96 and talked into it and
listened to it with headphones and I didn't perceive any
delay. I've done the same with a simple analog console many
time and it really didn't sound much different. My voice
sucks either way! ;-)

I don't think the people who buy digital mixers @ $80,000
and up are doing so to get bad sound. But you don't need to
spend $80,000 to do what you want to do. But, in terms of
raw signal processing power, latency and the like, digital
mixers seem to be in a kind of a flat hierarchy, if you know
what I mean.



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SSJVCmag
 
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Default

On 9/9/05 8:37 AM, in article
, "Guitrzman"
wrote:

Teaching an old dog new tricks. If you have ever tried it, it can be
frustrating; especially if your the dog.

I have an old-school engineering background, large format console, lots
of channels, EQ's, insert for processing, then bussing to those lovely
2" behemoths. Inline monitoring design... it was all so easy.. right
there in front of you.. all hands on.

Now I need to set up a digistudio around a ProTools HD system and I find
myself pulling out my hair to know what to put around it. I have been a
faithful MOTU DP user in my last few years. But never needing to record
more than one or two live tracks at a time, a couple of nice channel
strips have served me well. But now I need at least 16 simultaneous
inputs, and I hate mouse mixing. So I want some kind of front end where
I can use EQ and Dynamics on each input BEFORE it hits the digital
realm, easy to use foldback system, then have some tactile controller to
mix and control the DAW with. It there such a beast? or am I looking at
a rack full of pre's, and eq's and comp's and some control surface for
the back end?

Is there a digital mixer where the eq and dynamics won't induce a
perceived latency that you have found that works and sounds great? I am
just not savvy on the new stuff to know. Your expert advice is
appreciated.

Ron

Well, there's the approach of taking an adequate large format mixer and
using it as the front-end with all your friendly old analog hardware
approach.
But there are indeed a number of very good feels-designed-for-humans
fader/button control pamels that interface with the DAW. Heck, PARIS solved
this a while back and everybody else is catching up.
There's no reason to -have- to mix with a damned mouse.
Remember, the biggest reason for the affordability of DAW systems is that
there IS no $$$$$$$$ hardware to manufacture...
1- INSTALL SOFTWARE
2- GRAB THE MOUSE
3- RECORD/MIX

So these things, when done right, are indeed going to cost more than $99.95.


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Tim Martin
 
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"Guitrzman" wrote in message
...

or am I looking at a rack full of pre's, and eq's and comp's and some

control surface
for the back end?


I don't really understand. It seems to me that you either use a computer
interrface to control all 16 channels, or you need an individual set of
controls for each channel.

Let's take a scenario. Suppose you've recorded some tracks, and you find
that in the mix, you want to cut the bass guitar by 3dB around 200hz.

What interface do you want to use to achieve this?

Tim




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Guitrzman
 
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Default



I don't really understand. It seems to me that you either use a computer
interrface to control all 16 channels, or you need an individual set of
controls for each channel.

Let's take a scenario. Suppose you've recorded some tracks, and you find
that in the mix, you want to cut the bass guitar by 3dB around 200hz.

What interface do you want to use to achieve this?

Tim



Tim, thanks for the question. On the backend(mix) there is no problem
other than just having some kind of tactile control like a Mackie HUI or
whatever because I'll be using the Protools or MOTU plug-ins and such to
mix within the computer. It more the input side that I have questions
about and wanting it all in the same console/controller. But the
feedback and further research leads me to think I am looking at
something like a Control 24 or 02R, or the like. That serves both as a
multi-input console and DAW control Surface. What have you found to be
succesful?


  #6   Report Post  
Guitrzman
 
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Default

In article ,
Guitrzman wrote:


I don't really understand. It seems to me that you either use a computer
interrface to control all 16 channels, or you need an individual set of
controls for each channel.

Let's take a scenario. Suppose you've recorded some tracks, and you find
that in the mix, you want to cut the bass guitar by 3dB around 200hz.

What interface do you want to use to achieve this?

Tim



Tim, thanks for the question. On the backend(mix) there is no problem
other than just having some kind of tactile control like a Mackie HUI or
whatever because I'll be using the Protools or MOTU plug-ins and such to
mix within the computer. It more the input side that I have questions
about and wanting it all in the same console/controller. But the
feedback and further research leads me to think I am looking at
something like a Control 24 or 02R, or the like. That serves both as a
multi-input console and DAW control Surface. What have you found to be
succesful?


AS a follow up, What are most you Protools guys using when you have a
rhythm section session, orchestra or other session that requires
multiple inputs? And are you just going out of a bunch of rack mounted
pre's into the digi interface? Just trying to educate myself on the
options out there! Thanks!

Ron
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Tim Martin
 
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"Guitrzman" wrote in message
...

"What have you found to be succesful?"

I use a mouse. I don't do any processing of the signal on input. Once all
the tracks are recorded in 24-bit audio, then I apply any signal processing.
(I don't use Pro Tools, by the way; I use Cubasis and Cubase.)

Tim








  #8   Report Post  
 
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On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:48:12 GMT, Guitrzman
wrote:

Tim, thanks for the question. On the backend(mix) there is no problem
other than just having some kind of tactile control like a Mackie HUI or
whatever because I'll be using the Protools or MOTU plug-ins and such to
mix within the computer. It more the input side that I have questions
about and wanting it all in the same console/controller. But the
feedback and further research leads me to think I am looking at
something like a Control 24 or 02R, or the like. That serves both as a
multi-input console and DAW control Surface. What have you found to be
succesful?


You could use the Mackie or Protools controllers for mixing, but I
think what you really want is a Euphonics board. They have boards
that are all analogue components but control digital systems. They
have a knob for each function so you can grab and turn them like you
expect on a real board. This works for both the front end and mixing.

http://www.euphonix.com/music/produc...5/system_5.htm

I only used it on one project, but I was impressed. It wasn't
completely intuitive, but it is thousands of times better that a
mouse.
I personally have the Mackie controller which I half use. It didn't
integrate as well with Nuendo as I hoped, and is currently crashing my
system when I open and older file, since I've updated to XP.
  #9   Report Post  
Lynn
 
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Default


"Tim Martin" wrote in message
...

"Guitrzman" wrote in message
...

"What have you found to be succesful?"

I use a mouse. I don't do any processing of the signal on input. Once
all
the tracks are recorded in 24-bit audio, then I apply any signal
processing.
(I don't use Pro Tools, by the way; I use Cubasis and Cubase.)

Tim


I currently do exactly the same but I use Logic.

However, I'm shortly upgrading to multiple inputs (8 is about the most I can
afford) and I'm looking seriously at the Tascam FW-1884. I think you can
chain a few together to get more channels, and it seems like a pretty good
control surface with inserts etc. Not sure if it's compatible with ProTools.
http://www.dv247.com/invt/17449?sour...gn=uk&ad=17449

--
Lynn
Wobbly Music
"Supporting the Mature Artist"
=============================
http://www.wobblymusic.net
Latest Release... "Friends" by John McKeon
Order your copy now and get 2 FREE bonus tracks!
http://www.johnmckeon.wobblymusic.net


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