Hi everyone,

Hopefully you can provide me some much needed advice as I'm very new to
all this. I worship at a church where we already have a 24 way mixer
already installed. We recently added a DVD player as a source, but we
really would like the following

Source Systems:
===============
DVD Player
VCR
Audio Cassette Recorder
Mini Disk Recorder
PC

Recording Systems
=================
VCR
Audio Cassette Recorder
Mini Disk Recorder
PC

The sound mixer we have is now fully loaded, and so has no free
connections, but it does have a pair of jacks for Tape input and another
pair for Tape output. What I would like to know is can I connect the
Tape Input to some kind of separate mixer/selector box so that I can
choose one of the above sources to play through the sound mixer, and so
become audible to the congregation.

At the same time we would like the Tape Output to go to another separate
box which would send the same audio signal to the four recording systems
in parallel, so each would get the same audio signal at the same time.

I don't mind if the two boxes are the same or separate, but as we are
based in the UK, they need to be available here.

We also have a separate Video solution where our services are both
recorded to the VCR, and sent to a spill over area in a nearby hall.
Ideally we would also like to send the video signal to the same PC as the
audio as described above, so we could capture both video and audio on the
PC for later editing to make our own SVCD or DVD's. Has anyone already
done this, and if so what software would you recommend for capturing
audio on it's own on the PC (to make our own CDs), and/or combined with
video (to make our own SVCDs and DVDs)?

Many Thanks

In article writes:

The sound mixer we have is now fully loaded, and so has no free
connections, but it does have a pair of jacks for Tape input and another
pair for Tape output. What I would like to know is can I connect the
Tape Input to some kind of separate mixer/selector box so that I can
choose one of the above sources to play through the sound mixer, and so
become audible to the congregation.

Yes. No problem. You may find that you will have to adjust the
playback volume when switching sources and you may need some adapters
to match the physical configuration of the jacks, but someone who
understands interfacing can deal with this easily.

At the same time we would like the Tape Output to go to another separate
box which would send the same audio signal to the four recording systems
in parallel, so each would get the same audio signal at the same time.

This can probably be done simply by using "split" or "Y" cables,
though it might be neater to do it with a box, and even better
technically if you were to use what's known as a "distribution
amplifier" that isolates each output and often gives the a control to
set the signal level at each output. Depends on how much money you're
willing to spend.

Check http://www.markertek.com and look at distribution amplifiers and
switch boxes. I don't know if they do business across the ocean, but
at least you can get some ideas as to what's available. Another
possibility is to check with your friendly local full service sound
company and get them to build something for you. This is a step above
what you'll find at Radio Shack, and when you get into that range, you
need to look into commercial sound equipment or custom building.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Ratty Burger writes:
Hi everyone,

Hopefully you can provide me some much needed advice as I'm very new to
all this. I worship at a church where we already have a 24 way mixer
already installed. We recently added a DVD player as a source, but we
really would like the following

Source Systems:
===============
DVD Player
VCR
Audio Cassette Recorder
Mini Disk Recorder
PC

Recording Systems
=================
VCR
Audio Cassette Recorder
Mini Disk Recorder
PC

The sound mixer we have is now fully loaded, and so has no free
connections, but it does have a pair of jacks for Tape input and another
pair for Tape output. What I would like to know is can I connect the
Tape Input to some kind of separate mixer/selector box so that I can
choose one of the above sources to play through the sound mixer, and so
become audible to the congregation.


The answer is yes...but there's a better way. What you need is what
is called a "submixer." Functionally it's no different than your 24
channel mixer you already have.

Get a 6 or 8 channel mixer (Mackie 1202 or 1402 for instance,
Behringer also makes little mixers along with many other
manufacturers) to handle the additional inputs. Plug the output of
that into either a single pair of channels (to handle stereo) in your
existing mixer, into the tape input, or into some other input that
will sum at the outputs. If you post the specific model of 24-channel
mixer you already have, I could give more detailed recommendations on
hookup.


At the same time we would like the Tape Output to go to another
separate box which would send the same audio signal to the four
recording systems in parallel, so each would get the same audio
signal at the same time.

That's fairly simple. Take the tape output from your the 24 channel
mixer, and run it to hte VCR input. The VCR output to the Audio
Cassette recorder input. That output to the mini disk recorder. If
the minidisk has audio outputs, send that to the PC. Otherwise,
you'll need a simple pair of Y adapter cables to split the output of
the cassette deck to feed the PC and minidisk simultaneously.

I don't mind if the two boxes are the same or separate, but as we
are based in the UK, they need to be available here.

We also have a separate Video solution where our services are both
recorded to the VCR, and sent to a spill over area in a nearby hall.
Ideally we would also like to send the video signal to the same PC as the
audio as described above, so we could capture both video and audio on the
PC for later editing to make our own SVCD or DVD's. Has anyone already
done this, and if so what software would you recommend for capturing
audio on it's own on the PC (to make our own CDs), and/or combined with
video (to make our own SVCDs and DVDs)?

Typically video capture boards for the PC will come with some software
for doing this. I'm afraid I am not familiar with this though.

You may find better performance however if you were to get a digital
video (DV) recorder with a firewire interface taking the video input,
and the audio from your mixer setup. That way, you'd have a flawless
DV copy of the video with audio recorded digitally already together on
it--guaranteed no frame drops (as PC systems are prone to). And no
cumbersome video capture card to buy.

Once on the tape, you could digitally transfer from DV tape to the PC
as desired using a Firewire interface. This technology is already
reaching maturity and should be relatively easy to work with. Video
capture stuff is far less mature and cumbersome and takes a pretty
beeefy PC and video capture card to keep up with the frame rate as I
understand.

Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."

In article writes:

The answer is yes...but there's a better way. What you need is what
is called a "submixer." Functionally it's no different than your 24
channel mixer you already have.

No, he doesn't need a submixer unless he told you something he didn't
tell me - that he wanted to be able to mix those playback sources. I
think he just wants to select one at a time, send it to the Tape
Input on the console, and not have to deal with any more controls.

That's fairly simple. Take the tape output from your the 24 channel
mixer, and run it to hte VCR input. The VCR output to the Audio
Cassette recorder input. That output to the mini disk recorder. If
the minidisk has audio outputs, send that to the PC.

That would only work if all the units were turned on and were switched
to an "input monitor" mode. And if one of them failed, you pushed the
wrong button, or the computer crashed, it would remove the signal from
everything else beyond it in the chain. No, the simple paralleling of
all the inputs has a pretty good chance of working (no impedance
matching [c]rap, please - it doesn't apply unless something has a
truly low impedance input).

Otherwise,
you'll need a simple pair of Y adapter cables to split the output of
the cassette deck to feed the PC and minidisk simultaneously.

Or four, to split the mixer output to all five units.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

with that being the only use
he could get a 5 way video game a/b/c/d/e/ box
my son has one to patch all his consoles into one tv
I don't know where he got it
, a video game store I guess
but handles 4 or 5 inputs to one output
with the push of a button
George


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.555 / Virus Database: 347 - Release Date: 12/23/2003

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1072720549k@trad
In article writes:

The answer is yes...but there's a better way. What you need is what
is called a "submixer." Functionally it's no different than your 24
channel mixer you already have.

No, he doesn't need a submixer unless he told you something he didn't
tell me - that he wanted to be able to mix those playback sources. I
think he just wants to select one at a time, send it to the Tape
Input on the console, and not have to deal with any more controls.

Speaking as a guy who has pretty much the same situation, but also has a
32-input mixer to deal with it, I would probably favor the submixer over the
switch.

(1) I can't say for certain that I'd never have to mix some of the sources
being mentioned.

(2) The ability to set a trim for level-matching, and use a fader to control
the extra inputs is not necessary, but it sure is convenient and familiar.

Understand this is just a matter of personal preference and my perceptions
of convenient, not some kind of technical issue. The switch can work, and
will have the advantage of being cheap and positive. But it won't provide
level matching, and it will involve a different control paradigm.

That's fairly simple. Take the tape output from your the 24 channel
mixer, and run it to the VCR input. The VCR output to the Audio
Cassette recorder input. That output to the mini disk recorder. If
the minidisk has audio outputs, send that to the PC.

That would only work if all the units were turned on and were switched
to an "input monitor" mode. And if one of them failed, you pushed the
wrong button, or the computer crashed, it would remove the signal from
everything else beyond it in the chain. No, the simple paralleling of
all the inputs has a pretty good chance of working (no impedance
matching [c]rap, please - it doesn't apply unless something has a
truly low impedance input).

I agree. Daisy-chains give me the willies. They are a reliability exposure.
A distribution amplifier or just a simple splitter cable would be better
solutions. Pro audio gear generally has abundant load-driving abilities as
related to line-level inputs. Fan-out = 5 with relatively short cables
shouldn't be a problem. But, the DA would provide isolation and the ability
to drive anything that was even vaguely reasonable. Some DA's have output
level controls which would allow tailoring the input signal levels for each
load.

Impedance matching MAY NOT be a factor, but considering the number of
devices being fed, it MAY BE. The schematics of every mixer I've ever
seen show that the tape out is coupled to the main out by a resistor
of high enough value to drop the signal level, typically from 0 dBv or
+4 to -10 dB. Paralleling this number of devices might produce an
unacceptably low output. The only way to find out for sure is to try
it. If it works - fine, if not, using a D.A. is a good idea.

One some mixers, certainly not all, the tape input may not go to the
mix bus, it may bypass it. That is, you may not be able to use the
tape input and all the other inputs simultaneously, check your manual
to be sure how yours works.

Under these circumstances, I would use a sub mixer either through the
tape inputs (if they can be mixed) or a regular input channel.

Good luck with your project

Lee Salter