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#1
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The Loudness Wars Reconsidered:
Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they
pertain to CDs/music. But this thought just hit me while I was vacuuming(!): Could the same thing potentially happen to MOVIES? And I'm not just talking about in theaters. I.E.: When one goes out to buy the "Special Edition" of this film or the "Collectors Set" of that one, has this . . http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_Loudness.png .. . been done to the audio?? Let's talk about the loudness war and if its harmful effects partain to Cinema/Home Video. -ChrisCoaster |
#2
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The Loudness Wars Reconsidered:
ChrisCoaster writes:
Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they pertain to CDs/music. I'm not sure what it is. Do you have a URL or something that points to a page that explains it? I assume it has something to do with increasing loudness in audio and video material? The image you linked implies that you're talking about cranking everything to within 0.1 dB of peak (?). |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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The Loudness Wars Reconsidered:
ChrisCoaster writes:
Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they pertain to CDs/music. But this thought just hit me while I was vacuuming(!): Could the same thing potentially happen to MOVIES? And I'm not just talking about in theaters. I.E.: When one goes out to buy the "Special Edition" of this film or the "Collectors Set" of that one, has this . . http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Jackson-Black_ or_White_Loudness.png/305px-Michael_Jackson-Black_or_White_Loudness.png . . been done to the audio?? Let's talk about the loudness war and if its harmful effects partain to Cinema/Home Video. Yes, that does indeed look like cinderblock city... But seems like sometimes it's the loudness wars inside out -- an extreme (and unnatural) dynamic range... things like dialog at a normal 60-65 dB, followed by, say, sound fx for fight scenes where skin-on-skin contact is mic'd in the foley pit at one inch, then pumped up to 110 dB for the mix. If that were the real level at 20 feet, a single punch would destroy the receipient (and probably the puncher's hand). Other exaggerations occur as well for all sorts of silly things, many of them unexpected. (Who needs a 105 dB car door slam?) Of course, one can do such things for dramatic effect, but when they get so over the top that all aspects of the movie become a cartoon made by 14 year olds for 12 year olds, well.... Of course if there's no story, poor acting, and mediocre directing, whatcha gonna do but paint the cowpie with whatever mismatched colors you have on hand? w Frank Mobile Audio -- |
#4
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The Loudness Wars Reconsidered:
Mxsmanic" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
... ChrisCoaster writes: Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they pertain to CDs/music. I'm not sure what it is. Do you have a URL or something that points to a page that explains it? I assume it has something to do with increasing loudness in audio and video material? The image you linked implies that you're talking about cranking everything to within 0.1 dB of peak (?). Try a search with Google or any other web search site. Another option would be the "archive" of this group on Google groups. For a start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war http://turnmeup.org http://www.pleasurizemusic.com |
#6
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The Loudness Wars Reconsidered:
"Marc Wielage" wrote in message
.com... On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:38:52 -0800, wrote (in article ): Yes, the loudness wars are happening in the movies too. Particularly in home video, such as on Blu-ray. In some cases people seek out older DVDs and even Laserdisks where, for certain movies, the soundtrack actually has more dynamic range. ------------------------------snip------------------------------ Actually, I think more dynamic range is a bad idea for home video mixes. Because most average living rooms are much noisier (and smaller) than an average commercial theater, it's a problem if there's 50 or 60dB dynamic range from the softest dialog scene in the picture and the loudest peak. Too often with home video releases, I crank up the levels to hear the quiet passages, then get blown out of the room with a sudden explosion or musical crescendo. This is not a problem with 90% of the new TV network series I see on the air. But a much bigger problem with Blu-rays. I'm not asking for massive peak-limiting and brick-wall compression; just a little less dynamic range. 50dB is a huge dynamic range. Even 20dB seems fairly wide to most listeners -- this one included. (If your controller has a level display, you can get a good idea of just how wide 20dB is.) I can't think of any film that "blows me out of the room". If I have any trouble, it's with the LFE level, which in my system, was consistently about 12dB too high. I had to recalibrate the channel gains accordingly. By the way, "crescendo" means "getting louder" -- not necessarily reaching a peak. |
#7
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The Loudness Wars Reconsidered:
ChrisCoaster wrote in
: Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they pertain to CDs/music. But this thought just hit me while I was vacuuming(!): Could the same thing potentially happen to MOVIES? And I'm not just talking about in theaters. I.E.: When one goes out to buy the "Special Edition" of this film or the "Collectors Set" of that one, has this . . http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Michael_Jacks o n-Black_or_White_Loudness.png/305px-Michael_Jackson- Black_or_White_Loud ness.png . . been done to the audio?? Let's talk about the loudness war and if its harmful effects partain to Cinema/Home Video. -ChrisCoaster The music loudness wars are caused by competition on radio. Each song is trying to be louder than the next to be noticed by the listener. There is no corollary in theatrical videos--unless you consider the movie houses competing to see who can deafen their clientele first. By the time it reaches your home cinema, you've already bought or rented it. What advantage is there to the producer to squash sound there? |
#8
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The Loudness Wars Reconsidered:
Carey Carlan wrote:
: By the time it reaches your home cinema, you've already bought or rented : it. What advantage is there to the producer to squash sound there? So that the video sounds best on the average system. There are far more customers with average systems than there are customers with excellent systems. So if you have an excellent system, it can be frustrating when the audio has been squashed to sound optimal on earbuds. |
#9
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The Loudness Wars Reconsidered:
ChrisCoaster wrote:
And I'm not just talking about in theaters. I.E.: When one goes out to buy the "Special Edition" of this film or the "Collectors Set" of that one, has this . . http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_Loudness.png . . been done to the audio?? Let's talk about the loudness war and if its harmful effects partain to Cinema/Home Video. Actually, it's less of an issue because there are actual standards in place for cinema production. Now... not everybody follows them. But there are actual standards for dialogue levels and everything else tracks along with the dialogue levels for most films. SMPTE actually promotes real standards and the use of them. Wish the RIAA still did that.... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#10
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The Loudness Wars Reconsidered:
On Jan 15, 11:57*pm, wrote:
Carey Carlan wrote: : By the time it reaches your home cinema, you've already bought or rented : it. *What advantage is there to the producer to squash sound there? So that the video sounds best on the average system. *There are far more customers with average systems than there are customers with excellent systems. *So if you have an excellent system, it can be frustrating when the audio has been squashed to sound optimal on earbuds. ________________________ As far as I'm concerned they'd better NOT squash the audio side of my DVDs. If I want to do that I can buy a DVD player or AVR with "Night mode" on it! In fact my older JVC DVD/VHS combo has a range setting on it - normal or narrow. Problem solved. -CC |
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