[Paul Fuchs]

I just got a Nakamichi SR-3A through eBay. Set it up this morning.
Driving some Advent Legacy speakers. The unit sounds great at moderate
volumes, but when I crank it up, it cuts out. Not at blast your
eardrums out levels, but rather at what you might call "party" volume.
The volume switch is less that 60 % Max. This occurs well before the
speakers start distorting. It's not clipping off peaks. Rather,
there's a sort of crackle and the sound totally disappears for a few
seconds, then comes back, and this repeats itself. Feels like some sort
of protective device set too low. Once it starts, it is triggered at a
lower volume, and I have to turn the receiver down to moderate volumes
to stop it. Then it sounds great. Happens with all the import devices
at roughly the same sound level. What is causing this and is there
anything which I can do about it beyond keeping the volume moderate? I
live in the USVI and the shipping was half of the actual price, so
returning the unit for a refund of the actual price is problematic. And
I'm not that much of a headbanger or party animal so it's not a huge
problem, but kind of disappointing.

TIA

[Jerry G.]

I know the Advent Legacy speakers. I believe they are 6 ohms, and not 8
ohms. They are also acoustic suspension, and thus they are less
efficient. These speakers need a high current drive type amplifier that
can support 4 ohms.

What is happening is that the speaker is demanding too much current from
the amplifier. If the amplifier was rated for 4 ohms and can support
high current drive, you would not have
this problem.

I believe there was some type of publication about this when these
speakers were first marketed. I can tell you one thing, these speakers
are very accurate, and will perform extremely well if driven with the
proper matched amplifier. I know people who are driving these with
Bryston and Crown power amplifiers.


--

Jerry G.


"Paul Fuchs" wrote in message
news:1hzhzea.mi0qdcdknf4iN%paulfuchs@porkain'tkosh er.oink...
I just got a Nakamichi SR-3A through eBay. Set it up this morning.
Driving some Advent Legacy speakers. The unit sounds great at moderate
volumes, but when I crank it up, it cuts out. Not at blast your
eardrums out levels, but rather at what you might call "party" volume.
The volume switch is less that 60 % Max. This occurs well before the
speakers start distorting. It's not clipping off peaks. Rather,
there's a sort of crackle and the sound totally disappears for a few
seconds, then comes back, and this repeats itself. Feels like some sort
of protective device set too low. Once it starts, it is triggered at a
lower volume, and I have to turn the receiver down to moderate volumes
to stop it. Then it sounds great. Happens with all the import devices
at roughly the same sound level. What is causing this and is there
anything which I can do about it beyond keeping the volume moderate? I
live in the USVI and the shipping was half of the actual price, so
returning the unit for a refund of the actual price is problematic. And
I'm not that much of a headbanger or party animal so it's not a huge
problem, but kind of disappointing.

TIA

[Paul Fuchs]

Jerry G. wrote:

I know the Advent Legacy speakers. I believe they are 6 ohms, and not 8
ohms. They are also acoustic suspension, and thus they are less
efficient. These speakers need a high current drive type amplifier that
can support 4 ohms.

What is happening is that the speaker is demanding too much current from
the amplifier. If the amplifier was rated for 4 ohms and can support
high current drive, you would not have
this problem.

I believe there was some type of publication about this when these
speakers were first marketed. I can tell you one thing, these speakers
are very accurate, and will perform extremely well if driven with the
proper matched amplifier. I know people who are driving these with
Bryston and Crown power amplifiers.

Thanks Jerry.

The Nak is labeled Speakers A or B - 8 ohms minimum
Speakers A and B - 6 ohms minimum.

I bought the Advents in 1986, I think. My business partner was the
brother-in-law of the CEO, and I got them for like $100 :-) The woofer
material disintegrated and I had them rebuilt by this lab in Pa about 6
years ago with new cone material. They sounded great after the rebuild.
I don't have any of the original literature around that came with them.

You are right. They have no impedence marked on them, but I have been
Googling it a bit, and the Legacy II's were definitely 6 ohms and low
efficiency, but with very high accuracy. The legacy III's had a 6/8 ohm
switch which these don't.

[JANA]

I have a pair of Legacy speakers without the switch (older model). They are
6 ohms. By today's standards, they are considered excellent speakers. You
will need a good amplifier with a lot of punch to run them. Most consumer
amplifiers will go in to safety mode with these speakers. I use a Crown
DC-300-A with these speakers. I am running AWG 10 speaker wire at a length
of 12 feet. This power amp runs them very well with no issues at all.

--

JANA
_____


"Paul Fuchs" wrote in message
news:1hzi5wx.uj9rn01ahueb8N%paulfuchs@porkain'tkos her.oink...
Jerry G. wrote:

I know the Advent Legacy speakers. I believe they are 6 ohms, and not 8
ohms. They are also acoustic suspension, and thus they are less
efficient. These speakers need a high current drive type amplifier that
can support 4 ohms.

What is happening is that the speaker is demanding too much current from
the amplifier. If the amplifier was rated for 4 ohms and can support
high current drive, you would not have
this problem.

I believe there was some type of publication about this when these
speakers were first marketed. I can tell you one thing, these speakers
are very accurate, and will perform extremely well if driven with the
proper matched amplifier. I know people who are driving these with
Bryston and Crown power amplifiers.

Thanks Jerry.

The Nak is labeled Speakers A or B - 8 ohms minimum
Speakers A and B - 6 ohms minimum.

I bought the Advents in 1986, I think. My business partner was the
brother-in-law of the CEO, and I got them for like $100 :-) The woofer
material disintegrated and I had them rebuilt by this lab in Pa about 6
years ago with new cone material. They sounded great after the rebuild.
I don't have any of the original literature around that came with them.

You are right. They have no impedence marked on them, but I have been
Googling it a bit, and the Legacy II's were definitely 6 ohms and low
efficiency, but with very high accuracy. The legacy III's had a 6/8 ohm
switch which these don't.

[Codifus]

On Jun 10, 6:13 pm, (Paul Fuchs) wrote:
Jerry G. wrote:
I know the Advent Legacy speakers. I believe they are 6 ohms, and not 8
ohms. They are also acoustic suspension, and thus they are less
efficient. These speakers need a high current drive type amplifier that
can support 4 ohms.

What is happening is that the speaker is demanding too much current from
the amplifier. If the amplifier was rated for 4 ohms and can support
high current drive, you would not have
this problem.

I believe there was some type of publication about this when these
speakers were first marketed. I can tell you one thing, these speakers
are very accurate, and will perform extremely well if driven with the
proper matched amplifier. I know people who are driving these with
Bryston and Crown power amplifiers.

Thanks Jerry.

The Nak is labeled Speakers A or B - 8 ohms minimum
Speakers A and B - 6 ohms minimum.

I bought the Advents in 1986, I think. My business partner was the
brother-in-law of the CEO, and I got them for like $100 :-) The woofer
material disintegrated and I had them rebuilt by this lab in Pa about 6
years ago with new cone material. They sounded great after the rebuild.
I don't have any of the original literature around that came with them.

You are right. They have no impedence marked on them, but I have been
Googling it a bit, and the Legacy II's were definitely 6 ohms and low
efficiency, but with very high accuracy. The legacy III's had a 6/8 ohm
switch which these don't.

Do you mean that your business partner knew the late Henry Kloss?
Lucky man. I didn't realize it until much later, but most of the
speaker systems I've come to admire, Acoutic Research back in the day,
Advents, Cambridge Soundworks, were all brought about with the magic
touch of Mr. Kloss. And he did it without breaking the bank.

CD

[Paul Fuchs]

Thanks Jerry,

I just love the quality of sound though of this receiver. Do you think
it would help if I went to Radio Shack and bought some 2 or 4 ohm power
resisters and put them in line with the speakers? I don't see how this
could kill the Nak. Is there a danger in trying this?

Thanks,

Paul




Jerry G. wrote:

I know the Advent Legacy speakers. I believe they are 6 ohms, and not 8
ohms. They are also acoustic suspension, and thus they are less
efficient. These speakers need a high current drive type amplifier that
can support 4 ohms.

What is happening is that the speaker is demanding too much current from
the amplifier. If the amplifier was rated for 4 ohms and can support
high current drive, you would not have
this problem.

I believe there was some type of publication about this when these
speakers were first marketed. I can tell you one thing, these speakers
are very accurate, and will perform extremely well if driven with the
proper matched amplifier. I know people who are driving these with
Bryston and Crown power amplifiers.


--
Nothing doth more hurt in a state than
That cunning men pass for wise.
--Francis Bacon

[Paul Fuchs]

codifus wrote:

On Jun 10, 6:13 pm, (Paul Fuchs) wrote:
Jerry G. wrote:
I know the Advent Legacy speakers. I believe they are 6 ohms, and not 8
ohms. They are also acoustic suspension, and thus they are less
efficient. These speakers need a high current drive type amplifier that
can support 4 ohms.

What is happening is that the speaker is demanding too much current from
the amplifier. If the amplifier was rated for 4 ohms and can support
high current drive, you would not have
this problem.

I believe there was some type of publication about this when these
speakers were first marketed. I can tell you one thing, these speakers
are very accurate, and will perform extremely well if driven with the
proper matched amplifier. I know people who are driving these with
Bryston and Crown power amplifiers.

Thanks Jerry.

The Nak is labeled Speakers A or B - 8 ohms minimum
Speakers A and B - 6 ohms minimum.

I bought the Advents in 1986, I think. My business partner was the
brother-in-law of the CEO, and I got them for like $100 :-) The woofer
material disintegrated and I had them rebuilt by this lab in Pa about 6
years ago with new cone material. They sounded great after the rebuild.
I don't have any of the original literature around that came with them.

You are right. They have no impedence marked on them, but I have been
Googling it a bit, and the Legacy II's were definitely 6 ohms and low
efficiency, but with very high accuracy. The legacy III's had a 6/8 ohm
switch which these don't.

Do you mean that your business partner knew the late Henry Kloss?
Lucky man. I didn't realize it until much later, but most of the
speaker systems I've come to admire, Acoutic Research back in the day,
Advents, Cambridge Soundworks, were all brought about with the magic
touch of Mr. Kloss. And he did it without breaking the bank.

CD

Sorry for the late reply. No, by that time Kloss had moved on to a new
company he started and Advent was owned by a conglomerate. The CEO of
this was my partner's brother-in-law. Sorry to disappoint.

-P

--
Nothing doth more hurt in a state than
That cunning men pass for wise.
--Francis Bacon

[Serge Auckland]

"Paul Fuchs" wrote in message
news:1i0myik.as66dc1gyjkozN%paulfuchs@porkain'tkos her.oink...
Thanks Jerry,

I just love the quality of sound though of this receiver. Do you think
it would help if I went to Radio Shack and bought some 2 or 4 ohm power
resisters and put them in line with the speakers? I don't see how this
could kill the Nak. Is there a danger in trying this?

Thanks,

Paul


There's no danger to the receiver in putting resistance in series with the
loudspeakers, but you could well ruin the sound you're trying to achieve
through frequency response errors in the 'speakers.

Resistance in series with the 'speakers will act as a potental divider with
the impedance of the 'speakers. If the 'speakers presented a fixed load (say
6 ohms), this would result in a modest reduction in power and bass damping
only. However, all loudspeakers present a load that whilst nominally 6 ohms
(or whatever), in practice varies with frequency from perhaps 4 ohms up to
perhaps 30+ ohms depending on the actual design details of the loudspeaker.
Consequently, the loss in the external resistors will vary with frequency,
giving you a much worse frequency response, and changing the sound of the
loudspeakers considerably.

There's no "proper" engineering way of doing what you are trying to do
except perhaps using a pair of very well specified (and expensive)
transformers, and even then, you will have changes to the sound. For the
cost of a couple of 50 watt resistors, you could certainly try it and see if
the sound is still to your liking.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[Codifus]

On Jul 2, 6:12 pm, (Paul Fuchs) wrote:
Thanks Jerry,

I just love the quality of sound though of this receiver. Do you think
it would help if I went to Radio Shack and bought some 2 or 4 ohm power
resisters and put them in line with the speakers? I don't see how this
could kill the Nak. Is there a danger in trying this?

Thanks,

Paul



Jerry G. wrote:
I know the Advent Legacy speakers. I believe they are 6 ohms, and not 8
ohms. They are also acoustic suspension, and thus they are less
efficient. These speakers need a high current drive type amplifier that
can support 4 ohms.

What is happening is that the speaker is demanding too much current from
the amplifier. If the amplifier was rated for 4 ohms and can support
high current drive, you would not have
this problem.

I believe there was some type of publication about this when these
speakers were first marketed. I can tell you one thing, these speakers
are very accurate, and will perform extremely well if driven with the
proper matched amplifier. I know people who are driving these with
Bryston and Crown power amplifiers.

--
Nothing doth more hurt in a state than
That cunning men pass for wise.
--Francis Bacon

Why not try using thinner speaker wire? This will increase the
resistance between the NAK and Advents and may make the NAK more
stable. Of course, if the length of your speaker wires is very short
then thinner wire will make almost no difference. This may also
sacrifice bass response, too. Worth a shot, though.

Just a thought.

CD

[Laurence Payne]

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:03:08 -0700, codifus
wrote:

Why not try using thinner speaker wire? This will increase the
resistance between the NAK and Advents and may make the NAK more
stable. Of course, if the length of your speaker wires is very short
then thinner wire will make almost no difference.

Don't tell the audiophools :-)

[Paul Fuchs]

codifus wrote:

On Jul 2, 6:12 pm, (Paul Fuchs) wrote:
Thanks Jerry,

I just love the quality of sound though of this receiver. Do you think
it would help if I went to Radio Shack and bought some 2 or 4 ohm power
resisters and put them in line with the speakers? I don't see how this
could kill the Nak. Is there a danger in trying this?

Thanks,

Paul



Jerry G. wrote:
I know the Advent Legacy speakers. I believe they are 6 ohms, and not 8
ohms. They are also acoustic suspension, and thus they are less
efficient. These speakers need a high current drive type amplifier that
can support 4 ohms.

What is happening is that the speaker is demanding too much current from
the amplifier. If the amplifier was rated for 4 ohms and can support
high current drive, you would not have
this problem.

I believe there was some type of publication about this when these
speakers were first marketed. I can tell you one thing, these speakers
are very accurate, and will perform extremely well if driven with the
proper matched amplifier. I know people who are driving these with
Bryston and Crown power amplifiers.

--
Nothing doth more hurt in a state than
That cunning men pass for wise.
--Francis Bacon

Why not try using thinner speaker wire? This will increase the
resistance between the NAK and Advents and may make the NAK more
stable. Of course, if the length of your speaker wires is very short
then thinner wire will make almost no difference. This may also
sacrifice bass response, too. Worth a shot, though.

Just a thought.

CD

I find the Nak problem strange as I had been driving these Advents with
a modest 1980 JVC receiver rated at 45 watts RMS for over twenty years
without a problem. This receiver actually wore out mechanically, mainly
the slider volume control, so I replaced it with a used Nak 3A from
ebay. Why is the cutoff protection mode so sensitive? It kicks in when
the volume is less than half the dial. (As you can tell, I don't know
a lot about audio electronics).

--
Nothing doth more hurt in a state than
That cunning men pass for wise.
--Francis Bacon

[Codifus]

On Jul 3, 8:20 am, (Paul Fuchs) wrote:
codifus wrote:
On Jul 2, 6:12 pm, (Paul Fuchs) wrote:
Thanks Jerry,

I just love the quality of sound though of this receiver. Do you think
it would help if I went to Radio Shack and bought some 2 or 4 ohm power
resisters and put them in line with the speakers? I don't see how this
could kill the Nak. Is there a danger in trying this?

Thanks,

Paul

Jerry G. wrote:
I know the Advent Legacy speakers. I believe they are 6 ohms, and not 8
ohms. They are also acoustic suspension, and thus they are less
efficient. These speakers need a high current drive type amplifier that
can support 4 ohms.

What is happening is that the speaker is demanding too much current from
the amplifier. If the amplifier was rated for 4 ohms and can support
high current drive, you would not have
this problem.

I believe there was some type of publication about this when these
speakers were first marketed. I can tell you one thing, these speakers
are very accurate, and will perform extremely well if driven with the
proper matched amplifier. I know people who are driving these with
Bryston and Crown power amplifiers.

--
Nothing doth more hurt in a state than
That cunning men pass for wise.
--Francis Bacon

Why not try using thinner speaker wire? This will increase the
resistance between the NAK and Advents and may make the NAK more
stable. Of course, if the length of your speaker wires is very short
then thinner wire will make almost no difference. This may also
sacrifice bass response, too. Worth a shot, though.

Just a thought.

CD

I find the Nak problem strange as I had been driving these Advents with
a modest 1980 JVC receiver rated at 45 watts RMS for over twenty years
without a problem. This receiver actually wore out mechanically, mainly
the slider volume control, so I replaced it with a used Nak 3A from
ebay. Why is the cutoff protection mode so sensitive? It kicks in when
the volume is less than half the dial. (As you can tell, I don't know
a lot about audio electronics).

--
Nothing doth more hurt in a state than
That cunning men pass for wise.
--Francis Bacon

I just googled your SR-3A and see that it has Pre-outs. You can run
further tests by separating the pre-amp/power amp sections. For
example, you could run the pre-outs to your JVC which connects to your
Advents. If everything works fine, then you've narrowed down the
problem to the power amp section of the NAK, etc. I know that running
Pre-outs to the JVC which doesn't have pre-ins, so to speak, is not
the ideal setup, but it will work. Just make the volume on the NAK is
set low and the JVC is set high, like 12 o'clock.

CD

[Paul Fuchs]

codifus wrote:


I just googled your SR-3A and see that it has Pre-outs. You can run
further tests by separating the pre-amp/power amp sections. For example,
you could run the pre-outs to your JVC which connects to your Advents. If
everything works fine, then you've narrowed down the problem to the power
amp section of the NAK, etc. I know that running Pre-outs to the JVC which
doesn't have pre-ins, so to speak, is not the ideal setup, but it will
work. Just make the volume on the NAK is set low and the JVC is set high,
like 12 o'clock.

CD

Thanks, CD, but my JVC is gone. I have very little storage where I
live. Anyway, I picked up four one ohm 10 watt power resisters at Radio
Shack (10 watts was the biggest they carry), wirenutted them in series
in pairs, and connected them to the black speaker terminals of the Nak
3A. I can now crank it up to 11 (Spinal Tap modified :-) without the
safety breaker device clipping out the sound. My admittedly 60 year-old
hearing cannot detect deterioration in the quality of the sound. Total
cost was $3.75. A real dumb ass high school physics solution, but it
appears to have worked, though only been running it for about an hour.
This model does have pre-amp outs, and if this goes sour, I'll start to
hunt ebay for a decent power amp. I have a Nak 3 in the other room
(this one connected to Boston Acoutic 8 ohm bookshelves) and the
physical differences between the 3 and the 3A are huge. Nak using the
same primary number is really misleading. If it goes sour, I'll post a
follow-up. Thanks for the help,

Paul

-- Nothing doth more hurt in a state than That cunning men pass for
wise. --Francis Bacon