[mirkoslav]

As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop and also sell on
ebay from time to time. But I was really shocked to see that Melodiya 1950
release of 1942 recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

Funny thing is that this recording was released on many Melodiya labels in
50s and 60s, soundwise is almost irrelevant which one you buy and
performancewise, the one with Bayreuth Festival Orchestra and Schwarzkopf,
Hongen, Edelman etc appears to be preferred by most Furtwangler fans. Why
would somebody pay such a money for silly 2LP set?

I found it by accident, because I listed same performance on Melodiya,
different label, same period (50s), maybe I should contact seller and see if
he has secret formula!

Set is under number D010851, more often listed as D 10851, cheer for me and
Korean / Japanese buyers

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220216681002

Miroslav
Hornet Records
My ebay auction with some nice violin / cello / piano stuff

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmirkoslav

http://www.hornetrecords.com

[Arny Krueger]

"mirkoslav" wrote in message

As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop
and also sell on ebay from time to time. But I was really
shocked to see that Melodiya 1950 release of 1942
recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

I wonder if people don't sometimes sell stuff to themselves for outlandish
prices, and pay the comission to eBay as a publicity expense. Just like I
wonder if some people don't buy stuff from themselves when the auction
stalls out at too low of a price. Again, it would be cheaper to pay the
comission rather than let the item go for too little.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Mar 28, 4:02*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"mirkoslav" wrote in message



As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop
and also sell on ebay from time to time. But I was really
shocked to see that Melodiya 1950 release of 1942
recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

I wonder if people don't sometimes sell stuff to themselves for outlandish
prices, and pay the comission to eBay as a publicity expense. Just like I
wonder if some people don't buy stuff from themselves when the auction
stalls out at too low of a price. Again, it would be cheaper to pay the
comission rather than let the item go for too little.

While shilling and other illegal tactics no doubt occur on ebay, most
of these represent real auction prices IMO. Martzhy recordings on DGG
regularly fetch over $500 each. Rarity obviously plays a part.

I once sold some used Western Electric rectifier tubes that I had paid
$3 each for for over $275 each. Another time I sold eight NOS GEC KT77
tubes for $2000.

Paying the commission on a $4,000+ LP as a "publicity stunt" makes no
sense whatsoever. It would make more sense to list it at an outrageous
number and just pay the listing fee. In this case the opening bid was
$9.99. The number of unique bids on this auction indicates to me this
was for real.

If you're curious go back in a week or two and see what feedback was
left.

[Arny Krueger]

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in message

On Mar 28, 4:02 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"mirkoslav" wrote in message



As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop
and also sell on ebay from time to time. But I was
really shocked to see that Melodiya 1950 release of 1942
recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

I wonder if people don't sometimes sell stuff to
themselves for outlandish prices, and pay the comission
to eBay as a publicity expense. Just like I wonder if
some people don't buy stuff from themselves when the
auction stalls out at too low of a price. Again, it
would be cheaper to pay the comission rather than let
the item go for too little.

While shilling and other illegal tactics no doubt occur
on ebay, most of these represent real auction prices IMO.
Martzhy recordings on DGG regularly fetch over $500 each.
Rarity obviously plays a part.

I once sold some used Western Electric rectifier tubes
that I had paid $3 each for for over $275 each. Another
time I sold eight NOS GEC KT77 tubes for $2000.

Paying the commission on a $4,000+ LP as a "publicity
stunt" makes no sense whatsoever. It would make more
sense to list it at an outrageous number and just pay the
listing fee. In this case the opening bid was $9.99. The
number of unique bids on this auction indicates to me
this was for real.

If you're curious go back in a week or two and see what
feedback was left.

So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on either side of the
question.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Mar 28, 4:22*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in





On Mar 28, 4:02 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"mirkoslav" wrote in message



As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop
and also sell on ebay from time to time. But I was
really shocked to see that Melodiya 1950 release of 1942
recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

I wonder if people don't sometimes sell stuff to
themselves for outlandish prices, and pay the comission
to eBay as a publicity expense. Just like I wonder if
some people don't buy stuff from themselves when the
auction stalls out at too low of a price. Again, it
would be cheaper to pay the comission rather than let
the item go for too little.

While shilling and other illegal tactics no doubt occur
on ebay, most of these represent real auction prices IMO.
Martzhy recordings on DGG regularly fetch over $500 each.
Rarity obviously plays a part.

I once sold some used Western Electric rectifier tubes
that I had paid $3 each for for over $275 each. Another
time I sold eight NOS GEC KT77 tubes for $2000.

Paying the commission on a $4,000+ LP as a "publicity
stunt" makes no sense whatsoever. It would make more
sense to list it at an outrageous number and just pay the
listing fee. In this case the opening bid was $9.99. The
number of unique bids on this auction indicates to me
this was for real.

If you're curious go back in a week or two and see what
feedback was left.

So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on either side of the
question.

The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in which some LPs sold
for $4,000. The only other thing I see is some aspersions from someone
who questions if it was a real auction. The evidence points to the
answer being "yes".

Those are the facts. Do you have any others you wish to add?

[Arny Krueger]

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in message

On Mar 28, 4:22 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on either
side of the
question.

The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in which
some LPs sold for $4,000.

Which proves what?

The only other thing I see is some aspersions
from someone who questions if it was a real auction.

That's the question I asked.

The evidence points to the answer being "yes".

I see no new evidence that was not known to me when I asked the question.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 28, 3:14*pm, "mirkoslav" wrote:
As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop and also sell on
ebay from time to time. But I was really shocked to see that Melodiya 1950
release of 1942 recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

Funny thing is that this recording was released on many Melodiya labels in
50s and 60s, soundwise is almost irrelevant which one you buy and
performancewise, the one with Bayreuth Festival Orchestra and Schwarzkopf,
Hongen, Edelman etc appears to be preferred by most Furtwangler fans. Why
would somebody pay such a money for silly 2LP set?

I found it by accident, because I listed same performance on Melodiya,
different label, same period (50s), maybe I should contact seller and see if
he has secret formula!

Set is under number D010851, more often listed as D 10851, cheer for me and
Korean / Japanese buyers

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220216681002

Miroslav
Hornet Records
My ebay auction with some nice violin / cello / piano stuff

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmirkoslav

http://www.hornetrecords.com

As a user and frequent purchaser of vinyl, I keep my eye on ebay
auctions (although I rarely purchase records online). Going back a few
years now, I have often seen the same winner of this $4K bid win other
auctions for a single LP above a grand. This disc must have really
been special to him or her:-)

[UnsteadyKen]

said...

This disc must have really
been special to him or her:-)


Hmm yes, but was it for themusic or to fill the gap in the
too valuable to be played collection?
--
Ken

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Mar 28, 5:19*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in

On Mar 28, 4:22 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on either
side of the
question.
The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in which
some LPs sold *for $4,000.

Which proves what?

That someone bid $4,000 for some LPs. That is the single known fact
aside from the bidding history. All of the rest is made-up stuff from
you.

The only other thing I see is some aspersions
from someone *who questions if it was a real auction.

That's the question I asked.

Based on nothing but aspersions, anti-vinyl bigotry and thin air.

The evidence points to the *answer being "yes".

I see no new evidence that was not known to me when I asked the question.

Well now, *there's* a bull**** position. LOL!

I see absolutely no evidence to base the question on. You could ask
that question about every single auction at any auction service. You
could ask that question about the color of the sky. That does not make
it a valid question.

There were multiple bidders. There was a logical progression of bids
from different bidders. There is a lot of feedback for the seller from
a lot of different buyers. The seller has over 1,000 feedbacks. The
evidence points to it being a real auction with a real buyer. You can
doubt whatever you want to and you can ask any question you want to,
even in the face of the evidence.

Many of us question your sanity, but we have the evidence in our
favor. You, however, do not. ;-)

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Mar 28, 6:23*pm, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote:
On Mar 28, 5:19*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in

On Mar 28, 4:22 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on either
side of the
question.
The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in which
some LPs sold *for $4,000.

Which proves what?

That someone bid $4,000 for some LPs. That is the single known fact
aside from the bidding history. All of the rest is made-up stuff from
you.

The only other thing I see is some aspersions
from someone *who questions if it was a real auction.

That's the question I asked.

Based on nothing but aspersions, anti-vinyl bigotry and thin air.

The evidence points to the *answer being "yes".

I see no new evidence that was not known to me when I asked the question..

Well now, *there's* a bull**** position. LOL!

I see absolutely no evidence to base the question on. You could ask
that question about every single auction at any auction service. You
could ask that question about the color of the sky. That does not make
it a valid question.

There were multiple bidders. There was a logical progression of bids
from different bidders. There is a lot of feedback for the seller from
a lot of different buyers. The seller has over 1,000 feedbacks. The
evidence points to it being a real auction with a real buyer. You can
doubt whatever you want to and you can ask any question you want to,
even in the face of the evidence.

Many of us question your sanity, but we have the evidence in our
favor. You, however, do not. ;-)

BTW, GOIA, why don't you go search the winning bidder's feedback,
where you can see their recent purchases.

Oooooops! You lose! LOL!

[Arny Krueger]

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in message

On Mar 28, 5:19 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in


On Mar 28, 4:22 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on either
side of the
question.
The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in which
some LPs sold for $4,000.

Which proves what?

That someone bid $4,000 for some LPs. That is the single
known fact aside from the bidding history. All of the rest is
made-up stuff from you.

The bid does not prove that the money actually changed hands.

The only other thing I see is some aspersions
from someone who questions if it was a real auction.

That's the question I asked.

Based on nothing but aspersions, anti-vinyl bigotry and
thin air.

It has nothing to do with vinyl, and everything to do with eBay.

The evidence points to the answer being "yes".

I see no new evidence that was not known to me when I
asked the question.

Well now, *there's* a bull**** position. LOL!

I see absolutely no evidence to base the question on. You
could ask that question about every single auction at any auction
service.

Not so. Almost all auctions have far more reasonable closing prices.

The auctioneer's commission is far higher at most auctions.

At most auctions, the persons involved are real, visible persons.

eBay is a special case.

[number_six]

On Mar 28, 3:23*pm, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote:
On Mar 28, 5:19*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in

On Mar 28, 4:22 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on either
side of the
question.
The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in which
some LPs sold *for $4,000.

Which proves what?

That someone bid $4,000 for some LPs. That is the single known fact
aside from the bidding history. All of the rest is made-up stuff from
you.

The only other thing I see is some aspersions
from someone *who questions if it was a real auction.

That's the question I asked.

Based on nothing but aspersions, anti-vinyl bigotry and thin air.

The evidence points to the *answer being "yes".

I see no new evidence that was not known to me when I asked the question..

Well now, *there's* a bull**** position. LOL!

I see absolutely no evidence to base the question on. You could ask
that question about every single auction at any auction service. You
could ask that question about the color of the sky. That does not make
it a valid question.

There were multiple bidders. There was a logical progression of bids
from different bidders. There is a lot of feedback for the seller from
a lot of different buyers. The seller has over 1,000 feedbacks. The
evidence points to it being a real auction with a real buyer. You can
doubt whatever you want to and you can ask any question you want to,
even in the face of the evidence.

Many of us question your sanity, but we have the evidence in our
favor. You, however, do not. ;-)

Looks like legit seller, legit buyer. I am familiar with one of those
sellers; they were (and I think still are) brick and mortar as well as
on ebay.

One of the buyer's recent records may have had a shill bidder against
him (shows as no longer a registered user). But overall, these
parties look legit on both sides of the transaction. Well, the guy is
sure willing to plunk down some dough for the stuff he wants. I gotta
give him that.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Mar 28, 9:43*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

On Mar 28, 5:19 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

On Mar 28, 4:22 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on either
side of the
question.
The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in which
some LPs sold for $4,000.
Which proves what?
That someone bid $4,000 for some LPs. That is the single
known fact *aside from the bidding history. All of the rest is
made-up stuff from *you.

The bid does not prove that the money actually changed hands.

No, GOIA, you have an idea lodged in your head. There is no loosening
it. The fact that it flies in the face of all of the evidence is
irrelevant.

The only other thing I see is some aspersions
from someone who questions if it was a real auction.

That's the question I asked.
Based on nothing but aspersions, anti-vinyl bigotry and
thin air.

It has nothing to do with vinyl, and everything to do with eBay.

Hints: Look at the seller's feedback. Look at the winning bidder's
feedback which will show you what that bidder has purchased and has
paid for recent auctions.

I'm surprised that someone as 'knowledgable' about the Internet, like
you claim to be, would miss this. ;-)

The evidence points to the answer being "yes".
I see no new evidence that was not known to me when I
asked the question.
Well now, *there's* a bull**** position. LOL!
I see absolutely no evidence to base the question on. You
could ask *that question about every single auction at any auction
service.

Not so. Almost all auctions have *far more reasonable closing prices.

On that particular item? Maybe. I don't know the value of original
1950 Melodiya recordings of Furtwangler. Do you? The market seems to
say $4,000 for this particualr title.

If you were smart and not insane (two impossible preconditions, I
grant you that) you would look at the buyer's recent purchases. There
was another LP they bought for over $1,000, in addition to other high-
priced audiophile items.

As I said, you make things up out of thin air and contrary to the
evidence.

The auctioneer's commission is far higher at most auctions.

So? This supports your position exactly how?

At most auctions, the persons involved are real, visible persons.

Not true. Proxy or telephone bidding, as well as pre-bidding, is quite
common at Sotheby's or Christie's or other auction houses. Sometimes
agents represent wealthy clients, so the person doing the bidding is
not really the person doing the bidding.

eBay is a special case.

Not really. You just can't wrap your brain around the fact that
somebody just bought a set of rare LPs for $4,000. That may be due to
insanity. LOL!

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Mar 28, 9:46*pm, number_six wrote:

Looks like legit seller, legit buyer. *I am familiar with one of those
sellers; they were (and I think still are) brick and mortar as well as
on ebay.

I agree that they both appear quite legitimate. I would never pay
$4,000 for a couple of LPs, but then again I didn't bid on them. :-)

One of the buyer's recent records may have had a shill bidder against
him (shows as no longer a registered user). *But overall, these
parties look legit on both sides of the transaction. *Well, the guy is
sure willing to plunk down some dough for the stuff he wants. *I gotta
give him that.

Don't mind Arny. He's quite insane. He'll argue in the face of the
evidence rather than admit that his position is untenable.

The buyer from all that I can see will definitely pay for what he
wants. I only wish I had something he or she was after. :-)

[mirkoslav]

OK, one thing is for sure, buyer is known rare classical vinyl collector and
this auction is sound. I'm even 90% sure I know who he is in real life. It's
likely a Japanese manufacturer of stuff for high-end audio. I will not go
beyond that.
If there was some shill bidding on the auction, well, possible, but then
again this record/pressing usually gets amount dealers ask for, I see many
have raised the price for it to 2 grand level and as soon as it appears it
bears "Sold" tag next day. So obviously this is favorable release of the
performance and (pre Melodiya) VSG was relatively small label/plant issuing
some limited number of copies for each release (before it became part of one
and only Melodiya). Knowing it is actually from 1950 (hey, 58 years old, not
many of us can compete , not many great copies left, that's for sure.

So, hideharu, if you are reading this, buy my "next to best" release on
yellow Leningradski, for 1/5th of the price ) LOL

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220216681002

Miroslav
http://www.hornetrecords.com




wrote in message
...
On Mar 28, 3:14 pm, "mirkoslav" wrote:
As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop and also sell on
ebay from time to time. But I was really shocked to see that Melodiya 1950
release of 1942 recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

Funny thing is that this recording was released on many Melodiya labels in
50s and 60s, soundwise is almost irrelevant which one you buy and
performancewise, the one with Bayreuth Festival Orchestra and Schwarzkopf,
Hongen, Edelman etc appears to be preferred by most Furtwangler fans. Why
would somebody pay such a money for silly 2LP set?

I found it by accident, because I listed same performance on Melodiya,
different label, same period (50s), maybe I should contact seller and see
if
he has secret formula!

Set is under number D010851, more often listed as D 10851, cheer for me
and
Korean / Japanese buyers

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220216681002

Miroslav
Hornet Records
My ebay auction with some nice violin / cello / piano stuff

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmirkoslav

http://www.hornetrecords.com

As a user and frequent purchaser of vinyl, I keep my eye on ebay
auctions (although I rarely purchase records online). Going back a few
years now, I have often seen the same winner of this $4K bid win other
auctions for a single LP above a grand. This disc must have really
been special to him or her:-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in message

On Mar 28, 9:43 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

On Mar 28, 5:19 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"


On Mar 28, 4:22 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on
either side of the
question.
The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in
which some LPs sold for $4,000.
Which proves what?
That someone bid $4,000 for some LPs. That is the single
known fact aside from the bidding history. All of the
rest is made-up stuff from you.

The bid does not prove that the money actually changed
hands.

snip non-evidentiary personal attack

The only other thing I see is some aspersions
from someone who questions if it was a real auction.

That's the question I asked.
Based on nothing but aspersions, anti-vinyl bigotry and
thin air.

It has nothing to do with vinyl, and everything to do
with eBay.

Hints: Look at the seller's feedback.

Easily manipulated. After all, when you sell to yourself, you're going to
give yourself bad feedback?

Look at the winning
bidder's feedback which will show you what that bidder
has purchased and has paid for recent auctions.

Easily manipulated. After all, when you buy from yourself, you're going to
give yourself bad feedback?


snip non-evidentiary personal attack


The evidence points to the answer being "yes".
I see no new evidence that was not known to me when I
asked the question.
Well now, *there's* a bull**** position. LOL!
I see absolutely no evidence to base the question on.
You
could ask that question about every single auction at
any auction service.

Not so. Almost all auctions have far more reasonable
closing prices.

On that particular item? Maybe. I don't know the value of
original 1950 Melodiya recordings of Furtwangler. Do you?
The market seems to say $4,000 for this particualr title.

The market is very thin and as shown above, easy to manipulate.


snip non-evidentiary personal attack


snip non-evidentiary personal attack

The auctioneer's commission is far higher at most
auctions.

So? This supports your position exactly how?

High comissions make manipulating a market via phoney transactions very
uneconomical.

At most auctions, the persons involved are real, visible
persons.

Not true. Proxy or telephone bidding, as well as
pre-bidding, is quite common at Sotheby's or Christie's
or other auction houses.

EBay is not comparable to Southbys or Christies.

Sometimes agents represent
wealthy clients, so the person doing the bidding is not
really the person doing the bidding.

"Sometimes" is speculation, not evidence.

eBay is a special case.


snip non-evidentiary personal attack

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Mar 29, 9:23*am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

On Mar 28, 9:43 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

On Mar 28, 5:19 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"


On Mar 28, 4:22 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on
either side of the
question.
The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in
which some LPs sold for $4,000.
Which proves what?
That someone bid $4,000 for some LPs. That is the single
known fact aside from the bidding history. All of the
rest is made-up stuff from you.

The bid does not prove that the money actually changed
hands.

snip non-evidentiary personal attack

I should snip the evidence of your insanity, but then there would be
nothing that you wrote left.

The only other thing I see is some aspersions
from someone who questions if it was a real auction.

That's the question I asked.
Based on nothing but aspersions, anti-vinyl bigotry and
thin air.
It has nothing to do with vinyl, and everything to do
with eBay.
Hints: Look at the seller's feedback.

Easily manipulated. After all, when you sell to yourself, you're going to
give yourself bad feedback?

"Easily manipulated" over one thousand times? LOL! And the buyer paid
all those fees (over 700 of them) to fool people that he really didn't
buy all of those things.

That's insane (IOW, something *you* might do...).

*Look at the winning
bidder's feedback which will show you what that bidder
has purchased and has paid for recent auctions.

Easily manipulated. After all, when you buy from yourself, you're going to
give yourself bad feedback?

"Easily manipulated" over one thousand times? LOL! And the buyer paid
all those fees (over 700 of them) to fool people that he really didn't
buy all of those things.

That's insane (IOW, something *you* might do...).

The evidence points to the answer being "yes".
I see no new evidence that was not known to me when I
asked the question.
Well now, *there's* a bull**** position. LOL!
I see absolutely no evidence to base the question on.
You
could ask that question about every single auction at
any auction service.
Not so. Almost all auctions have far more reasonable
closing prices.
On that particular item? Maybe. I don't know the value of
original 1950 Melodiya recordings of Furtwangler. Do you?
The market seems to say $4,000 for this particualr title.

The market is very thin and as shown above, easy to manipulate.

No, GOIA, you have, as usual, boxed yourself into a corner and now you
will argue even the most ridiculous points to try to save face.

Heaven forbid you should just admit that you were wrong... LOL!

The auctioneer's commission is far higher at most
auctions.
So? This supports your position exactly how?

High comissions make manipulating a market via phoney transactions very
uneconomical.

"Easily manipulated" over one thousand times? LOL! And the buyer paid
all those fees (over 700 of them) to fool people that he really didn't
buy all of those things.

That's insane (IOW, something *you* might do...).

That buyer, if he was a seller trying to make himself look good, would
have paid several thousands in listing and final value fees. And to
what end? So that he looks like a good buyer?

Ditto for the seller. There are too many from too many countries. Most
of those who left feedback had hundreds themselves. So to make your
point valid you'd probably have something like 100,000 sham
transactions total. Not very likely.

As I've said all along, you're quite insane.

At most auctions, the persons involved are real, visible
persons.
Not true. Proxy or telephone bidding, as well as
pre-bidding, is quite common at Sotheby's or Christie's
or other auction houses.

EBay is not comparable to Southbys or Christies.

I didn't compare eBay to Southbys or Christies. I simply destroyed
your claim, that's all. If your point was that most people are real
people at low-end farm auctions, I'll grant you that. A $4,000 LP is
not likely to surface there and have several bidders who know what it
is. If you were fortunate enough to find one there, you might get it
for $5 or less, but that does not represent the market value.

Sometimes agents represent
wealthy clients, so the person doing the bidding is not
really the person doing the bidding.

"Sometimes" is speculation, not evidence.

You obviously do not know how auctions work (as if that wasn't
obvious). LOL!

From the OP's response, since you ignored it (likely because it makes
you look even stupider, if possible):

"OK, one thing is for sure, buyer is known rare classical vinyl
collector and
this auction is sound. I'm even 90% sure I know who he is in real
life. It's
likely a Japanese manufacturer of stuff for high-end audio. I will not
go
beyond that."

"If there was some shill bidding on the auction, well, possible, but
then
again this record/pressing usually gets amount dealers ask for, I see
many
have raised the price for it to 2 grand level and as soon as it
appears it
bears "Sold" tag next day."

As I said, GOIA, the market has spoken. You don't like it. Oh well.

Please come up with more specious arguments. I think this is fun! LOL!

[Vinylanach]

On Mar 29, 11:19�am, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote:
On Mar 29, 9:23�am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:





"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
On Mar 28, 9:43 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

On Mar 28, 5:19 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"


On Mar 28, 4:22 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on
either side of the
question.
The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in
which some LPs sold for $4,000.
Which proves what?
That someone bid $4,000 for some LPs. That is the single
known fact aside from the bidding history. All of the
rest is made-up stuff from you.

The bid does not prove that the money actually changed
hands.

snip non-evidentiary personal attack

I should snip the evidence of your insanity, but then there would be
nothing that you wrote left.

The only other thing I see is some aspersions
from someone who questions if it was a real auction.

That's the question I asked.
Based on nothing but aspersions, anti-vinyl bigotry and
thin air.
It has nothing to do with vinyl, and everything to do
with eBay.
Hints: Look at the seller's feedback.

Easily manipulated. After all, when you sell to yourself, you're going to
give yourself bad feedback?

"Easily manipulated" over one thousand times? LOL! And the buyer paid
all those fees (over 700 of them) to fool people that he really didn't
buy all of those things.

That's insane (IOW, something *you* might do...).

�Look at the winning
bidder's feedback which will show you what that bidder
has purchased and has paid for recent auctions.

Easily manipulated. After all, when you buy from yourself, you're going to
give yourself bad feedback?

"Easily manipulated" over one thousand times? LOL! And the buyer paid
all those fees (over 700 of them) to fool people that he really didn't
buy all of those things.

That's insane (IOW, something *you* might do...).

The evidence points to the answer being "yes".
I see no new evidence that was not known to me when I
asked the question.
Well now, *there's* a bull**** position. LOL!
I see absolutely no evidence to base the question on.
You
could ask that question about every single auction at
any auction service.
Not so. Almost all auctions have far more reasonable
closing prices.
On that particular item? Maybe. I don't know the value of
original 1950 Melodiya recordings of Furtwangler. Do you?
The market seems to say $4,000 for this particualr title.

The market is very thin and as shown above, easy to manipulate.

No, GOIA, you have, as usual, boxed yourself into a corner and now you
will argue even the most ridiculous points to try to save face.

Heaven forbid you should just admit that you were wrong... LOL!

The auctioneer's commission is far higher at most
auctions.
So? This supports your position exactly how?

High comissions make manipulating a market via phoney transactions very
uneconomical.

"Easily manipulated" over one thousand times? LOL! And the buyer paid
all those fees (over 700 of them) to fool people that he really didn't
buy all of those things.

That's insane (IOW, something *you* might do...).

That buyer, if he was a seller trying to make himself look good, would
have paid several thousands in listing and final value fees. And to
what end? So that he looks like a good buyer?

Ditto for the seller. There are too many from too many countries. Most
of those who left feedback had hundreds themselves. So to make your
point valid you'd probably have something like 100,000 sham
transactions total. Not very likely.

As I've said all along, you're quite insane.

At most auctions, the persons involved are real, visible
persons.
Not true. Proxy or telephone bidding, as well as
pre-bidding, is quite common at Sotheby's or Christie's
or other auction houses.

EBay is not comparable to Southbys or Christies.

I didn't compare eBay to Southbys or Christies. I simply destroyed
your claim, that's all. If your point was that most people are real
people at low-end farm auctions, I'll grant you that. A $4,000 LP is
not likely to surface there and have several bidders who know what it
is. If you were fortunate enough to find one there, you might get it
for $5 or less, but that does not represent the market value.

Sometimes agents represent
wealthy clients, so the person doing the bidding is not
really the person doing the bidding.

"Sometimes" is speculation, not evidence.

You obviously do not know how auctions work (as if that wasn't
obvious). LOL!

From the OP's response, since you ignored it (likely because it makes
you look even stupider, if possible):

"OK, one thing is for sure, buyer is known rare classical vinyl
collector and
this auction is sound. I'm even 90% sure I know who he is in real
life. It's
likely a Japanese manufacturer of stuff for high-end audio. I will not
go
beyond that."

"If there was some shill bidding on the auction, well, possible, but
then
again this record/pressing usually gets amount dealers ask for, I see
many
have raised the price for it to 2 grand level and as soon as it
appears it
bears "Sold" tag next day."

As I said, GOIA, the market has spoken. You don't like it. Oh well.

Please come up with more specious arguments. I think this is fun! LOL!-

Arny commenting on the vinyl market is like Bratzi commenting on the
good work done by the ACLU.

Boon

[R. Totale]

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:19:21 -0700 (PDT), "Shhhh! I'm Listening to
Reason!" wrote:

On Mar 29, 9:23*am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

Couldn't you children go paint some CDs with Armor All, or try out
some barbed wire as speaker hookup or something, and leave rec.music.*
off your rant list? And maybe learn to trim quotes while you're at
it?

[George M. Middius[_3_]]

Arnii Krooger, proud owner of a "Usenet career", speculates on running
a "business".

I wonder if people don't sometimes sell stuff to themselves for outlandish
prices, and pay the comission[sic] to eBay as a publicity expense.

I wonder if Scottie and Mikey know you're trying to out-stupid them.
Can you speak to that question, Turdborg?

Too bad you can't peddle your "Usenet career" on ebay. If you could,
you'd finally learn its true value.

[George M. Middius[_3_]]

Shhhh! said to ****-for-Dinner:

If you're curious go back in a week or two and see what
feedback was left.

So far I see no convincing arguments or facts on either side of the
question.

The fact of the matter is that an auction ended in which some LPs sold
for $4,000. The only other thing I see is some aspersions from someone
who questions if it was a real auction. The evidence points to the
answer being "yes".

Those are the facts. Do you have any others you wish to add?

I can tell you what Arnii wants to add: "Please pass the turd
casserole, and don't skimp on the floaters."

[George M. Middius[_3_]]

Shhhh! said:

Almost all auctions have *far more reasonable closing prices.

On that particular item? Maybe. I don't know the value of original
1950 Melodiya recordings of Furtwangler. Do you? The market seems to
say $4,000 for this particualr title.

Arnii is deep into his paranoid ranting. If the winning bid was $4000,
then the highest losing bid was $3900. Another fake bid? How about the
other bidders leading up to those bids -- all fakes?

As an aside, the Krooborg thanks you for indulging his craving for
attention.

[George M. Middius[_3_]]

Vinylanach said:

As I said, GOIA, the market has spoken. You don't like it. Oh well.
Please come up with more specious arguments. I think this is fun! LOL!-

Arny commenting on the vinyl market is like Bratzi commenting on the
good work done by the ACLU.

You mean post-Skokie, I assume.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Mar 29, 5:48*pm, George M. Middius wrote:
Shhhh! said:

Almost all auctions have *far more reasonable closing prices.

On that particular item? Maybe. I don't know the value of original
1950 Melodiya recordings of Furtwangler. Do you? The market seems to
say $4,000 for this particualr title.

Arnii is deep into his paranoid ranting. If the winning bid was $4000,
then the highest losing bid was $3900. Another fake bid? How about the
other bidders leading up to those bids -- all fakes?

Yes, and all of them from the same person. It's a publicity stunt.

As I said elsewhere, that would mean 75,000 to 100,000 fake bids. LOL!

As an aside, the Krooborg thanks you for indulging his craving for
attention.

If GOIA craves help pointing out how stupid he looks, I'm always here
for him.

[[email protected]]

Btw, is that Beethoven on the cover or the more sinister side of Dr
Jekyll?



Dil

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Nobody cares.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!

[Matthew B. Tepper]

*yawn*

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!

[[email protected]]

On Mar 28, 2:14 pm, "mirkoslav" wrote:
As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop and also sell on
ebay from time to time. But I was really shocked to see that Melodiya 1950
release of 1942 recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

Funny thing is that this recording was released on many Melodiya labels in
50s and 60s, soundwise is almost irrelevant which one you buy and
performancewise, the one with Bayreuth Festival Orchestra and Schwarzkopf,
Hongen, Edelman etc appears to be preferred by most Furtwangler fans. Why
would somebody pay such a money for silly 2LP set?

I found it by accident, because I listed same performance on Melodiya,
different label, same period (50s), maybe I should contact seller and see if
he has secret formula!

Set is under number D010851, more often listed as D 10851, cheer for me and
Korean / Japanese buyers

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220216681002

Miroslav
Hornet Records
My ebay auction with some nice violin / cello / piano stuff

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmirkoslav

http://www.hornetrecords.com

Welll...this is one of the more desirable pre-Melodiya/CCCP labels.VSG
Lps are not cheap,or common,never have been.I do not own,nor have I
ever seen any,Furtwangler or otherwise.Ask any dealer.I thought
everybody here knew this.This is almost triple,though what the last
VSG Furtwangler I saw go for.That was a Beethoven #5,on the same
label,that went for $1200.00 plus,a little over a year ago.Pressing is
everything on these Soviet Furtwanglers.These things were in the
catalogue,at CCCP/Melodiya,from the dawn of the Lp era.There are many
pressings.The ones from the 70s,and 80s,are not worth a helluva lot.
The oldest one I have,is on that green and white label,with the "33"
above the spindle hole.These can easily run into the high hundreds for
the Furties.After seeing this,I wonder if I could get a price of over
a grand,if I were to stick up.

I have been watching these pressings rise in price for nearly a
decade.So I'm not all THAT surprised.

What blew me away as far as record prices are concerned were those two
AC/DC 45s from South Africa:

$1,051.00 :
http://cgi.ebay.com/AC-DC-MEGA-RARE-...QQcmdZViewItem

$720.00 :
http://cgi.ebay.com/AC-DC-MEGA-RARE-...QQcmdZViewItem

Roger

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Mar 30, 6:25*pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 28, 2:14 pm, "mirkoslav" wrote:

As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop and also sell on
ebay from time to time. But I was really shocked to see that Melodiya 1950
release of 1942 recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

Welll...this is one of the more desirable pre-Melodiya/CCCP labels.VSG
Lps are not cheap,or common,never have been.I do not own,nor have I
ever seen any,Furtwangler or otherwise.Ask any dealer.I thought
everybody here knew this.

I didn't, as I don't collect Russian LPs.

This leaked over to rec.audio.opinion, where one of the regular
posters questioned whether or not this was a valid auction. He is
insane, so it's no surprise he didn't understand what was obvious to
someone like me who didn't know the market values of these LPs.

Thanks for answering. If I ever see a VSG LP cheap I'll be sure to
pick it up. :-)

[RapidRonnie]

On Mar 28, 4:15 pm, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote:
On Mar 28, 4:02 pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:



"mirkoslav" wrote in message



As some here might know, I have small classical LP shop
and also sell on ebay from time to time. But I was really
shocked to see that Melodiya 1950 release of 1942
recording could possible reach 4 grands. But it did. No,
it's not my auction (unfortunately)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350038918069

I wonder if people don't sometimes sell stuff to themselves for outlandish
prices, and pay the comission to eBay as a publicity expense. Just like I
wonder if some people don't buy stuff from themselves when the auction
stalls out at too low of a price. Again, it would be cheaper to pay the
comission rather than let the item go for too little.

While shilling and other illegal tactics no doubt occur on ebay, most
of these represent real auction prices IMO. Martzhy recordings on DGG
regularly fetch over $500 each. Rarity obviously plays a part.

I once sold some used Western Electric rectifier tubes that I had paid
$3 each for for over $275 each. Another time I sold eight NOS GEC KT77
tubes for $2000.

Paying the commission on a $4,000+ LP as a "publicity stunt" makes no
sense whatsoever. It would make more sense to list it at an outrageous
number and just pay the listing fee. In this case the opening bid was
$9.99. The number of unique bids on this auction indicates to me this
was for real.

If you're curious go back in a week or two and see what feedback was
left.

Asian buyers have unlimited capital, at least, a few of them do. I
don't know where they get it, but they sure do.

Upside: US high end companies that are established, are doing pretty
well right now.