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  #1   Report Post  
Carl the Engineer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mic Processors - Symetrix vs Eureka

Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.

Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
instead.

Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?

They are offering the $200 digital output card for free if you buy the
Eureka before the end of the month, and having digital out as well as
analog is something I need anyway, so it can go directly into the DAW
for voice-over production work.

Since the 528E doesn't have digital out, this would have been an easy
decision, but the 528E has a downward expander that is sort of like a
gate to get rid of any studio noise when no one is talking into the mic.

There doesn't seem to be any gating control of any kind on the Eureka,
so I need to know if this is a problem for anyone using it in a
broadcast studio. I can't seem to find anyone that has used the
Eureka yet that I can get some comments from, perhaps some radio
engineers here have installed one.

Any experience with this unit that can be shared will be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


  #2   Report Post  
TimPerry
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Carl the Engineer" wrote in message
...
Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.

Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
instead.

Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?


I find the dbx286A does an adequate job for broadcasting at an affordable
price.

for a more demanding situation try a FMR RNP & RNC combination.

Aphex is comming out a new processor http://aphex.com/230.htm that they say
will be in the $800 range.


  #3   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Without even hearing the Presonus, I wager the money be better spent
on the Symetrix... the older model, even better.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com



"Carl the Engineer" wrote in message ...
Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.

Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
instead.

Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?



  #4   Report Post  
Nudge
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey Carl,

I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
and use an external gate on the inserts.

Kind Regards
Nudge


Carl the Engineer wrote:
Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.

Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
instead.

Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?

They are offering the $200 digital output card for free if you buy the
Eureka before the end of the month, and having digital out as well as
analog is something I need anyway, so it can go directly into the DAW
for voice-over production work.

Since the 528E doesn't have digital out, this would have been an easy
decision, but the 528E has a downward expander that is sort of like a
gate to get rid of any studio noise when no one is talking into the mic.

There doesn't seem to be any gating control of any kind on the Eureka,
so I need to know if this is a problem for anyone using it in a
broadcast studio. I can't seem to find anyone that has used the
Eureka yet that I can get some comments from, perhaps some radio
engineers here have installed one.

Any experience with this unit that can be shared will be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.



--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

  #5   Report Post  
David
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Get a Behringer and pocket the difference.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:13:01 GMT, Carl the Engineer
wrote:

Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.

Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
instead.

Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?

They are offering the $200 digital output card for free if you buy the
Eureka before the end of the month, and having digital out as well as
analog is something I need anyway, so it can go directly into the DAW
for voice-over production work.

Since the 528E doesn't have digital out, this would have been an easy
decision, but the 528E has a downward expander that is sort of like a
gate to get rid of any studio noise when no one is talking into the mic.

There doesn't seem to be any gating control of any kind on the Eureka,
so I need to know if this is a problem for anyone using it in a
broadcast studio. I can't seem to find anyone that has used the
Eureka yet that I can get some comments from, perhaps some radio
engineers here have installed one.

Any experience with this unit that can be shared will be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.




  #6   Report Post  
Truth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey Carl,

I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
and use an external gate on the inserts.


Who sells just an external gate that could be used as you suggest? How
much would it cost?



  #7   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Truth" wrote in message ...
Hey Carl,

I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
and use an external gate on the inserts.


Who sells just an external gate that could be used as you suggest? How
much would it cost?



There's hardly anyone in the MI business that manufactures rack gear
that doesn't have a gate in the product line.

Downward expansion, built into the Symetrix 528, has many advantages
over hard gating.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com


  #8   Report Post  
Truth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
and use an external gate on the inserts.


Who sells just an external gate that could be used as you suggest? How
much would it cost?


There's hardly anyone in the MI business that manufactures rack gear
that doesn't have a gate in the product line.


The start of this thread was the fact that the Eureka did not, but had many other
features over the Symetrix, like digital outs.

Can you name just ONE mic processor that has both analog AND digital outputs that
has some sort of gating or downward expansion that is around $500?

Downward expansion, built into the Symetrix 528, has many advantages
over hard gating.


I agree. But it doesn't have digital out. If it did, I would go for the
Symetrix over the Eureka.



  #9   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Carl the Engineer wrote:
Ok, time for some technical discussion for the Engineers here.

Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
instead.

Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?

They are offering the $200 digital output card for free if you buy the
Eureka before the end of the month, and having digital out as well as
analog is something I need anyway, so it can go directly into the DAW
for voice-over production work.


For who? You got voice talent that need lots of AVC, or you just need
more limiting than gainriding? What kind of sound are you going for?

Since the 528E doesn't have digital out, this would have been an easy
decision, but the 528E has a downward expander that is sort of like a
gate to get rid of any studio noise when no one is talking into the mic.


I find the effect of this to be really annoying, unless it's in a studio
where it is already so quiet that it's not needed. There are a very narrow
range of noise levels where this will work transparently.

There doesn't seem to be any gating control of any kind on the Eureka,
so I need to know if this is a problem for anyone using it in a
broadcast studio. I can't seem to find anyone that has used the
Eureka yet that I can get some comments from, perhaps some radio
engineers here have installed one.


I cannot stand gating on voices. But then, I always disabled the damn
gate on the Orban Optimods too. Some people really like it, especially
the AOR guys for some reason.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #10   Report Post  
David
 
Posts: n/a
Default

''Professional result''??

What a snob.

http://www.behringer.com/VX2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:19:54 -0500, "Sugarite"
wrote:

Get a Behringer and pocket the difference.


The difference would be the loss of all his clients that demand a
professional result. They won't fit in his pocket.






  #11   Report Post  
Truth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Setting up a new production studio, and the decision is between going
with the industry standard Symetrix 528E, or trying the Presonus Eureka
instead.

Anyone here tried the Eureka yet?


I find the dbx286A does an adequate job for broadcasting at an affordable
price.


Ah, but that was not one of the options.

Aphex is comming out a new processor http://aphex.com/230.htm that they say
will be in the $800 range.


What was asked, was which of the two $500 processors was a better choice.
Listing other units that cost more and are much better than both is easy for
anyone to do, but not what was asked.


  #12   Report Post  
Truth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would go for the better sounding one (to you, of course)
and use an external gate on the inserts.

Who sells just an external gate that could be used as you suggest?

How
much would it cost?


No answer.

Can you name just ONE mic processor that has both analog AND digital

outputs that
has some sort of gating or downward expansion that is around $500?


He was implying that nearly every company makes a gate unit, and that it
shouldn't be a requisite feature in a vocal processor, and I agree.


Again no answer to the question.

Downward expansion, built into the Symetrix 528, has many advantages
over hard gating.


I agree. But it doesn't have digital out. If it did, I would go for

the
Symetrix over the Eureka.


the expansion feature of the Symmetrix is easily
supplemented to the Eureka.


How so?

On a feature-basis, the Eureka would seem to be
the better choice.


Yes, except for the fact that it does not have gating or downward expansion,
which was something that was needed, and important to the decision between the
two units, as was being able to have digital out, thus the hard decision.


  #13   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Truth" wrote in message ...

Without even hearing the Presonus, I wager the money be better spent
on the Symetrix... the older model, even better.


And why would you say that? The specs are much better on the Presonus.



I try not to pay much attention to 'specs'... but rather use my ears.

After that, I'll add in the experiences I've had with the manufacturer's
products.

Presonus gear that I've used (even purchased for people due to the
price range) has not impressed me nor held up well to heavy usage.

I have Symetrix gear that is 15+ years old that is still singing right
along... sounds and works as good today as when new.

The 528 (or 528E) is a multi-featured and highly flexible pre... one
can often see either of them on e-Bay for 1/2 of the OP's budget.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com




  #14   Report Post  
Truth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Without even hearing the Presonus, I wager the money be better spent
on the Symetrix... the older model, even better.


And why would you say that? The specs are much better on the Presonus.


I try not to pay much attention to 'specs'... but rather use my ears.


Yet, you say above, "without even HEARING the Presonus"... so you don't go by
your ears OR by specs, how are you making the decision then?

After that, I'll add in the experiences I've had with the manufacturer's
products.


The Presonus is a class A amp, has distortion rated at 0.005% while the Symetrix
boasts 0.05%

Since both cost the same price, seems the Presonus engineers know how to design a
better quality product for the same costs.

Presonus gear that I've used (even purchased for people due to the
price range) has not impressed me nor held up well to heavy usage.


But you don't get impressed by listening to the products or the specs, only by
the brand name. By heavy usage, we don't even want to know what you mean. The
only way any equipment has ever failed on me, is when a station was struck by
lighting, and then everything went, including the phone system. I have
equipment from the 60s that still works. But I don't kick them or throw them
around as you probably do.

I have Symetrix gear that is 15+ years old that is still singing right
along... sounds and works as good today as when new.


I should hope so! Why would any gear only 15 years old just stop working?

I have radios 80 years old and older that still work. With original tubes yet
too! Nothing replaced, fixed or modified.

The 528 (or 528E) is a multi-featured and highly flexible pre...


It sure is, and one of the most popular in use at radio stations. Yet too bad
it doesn't have an option for digital out, like the Presonus has. And too bad
the Presonus doesn't have a gate.

one can often see either of them on e-Bay for 1/2 of the OP's budget.


Very rare. Most of the time, items on Ebay for scratched and used items without
warranties and manuals go for more than I can get them for at retail cost.
Sometimes you can save $100, but when you deduct for cosmetic damage, no manual,
no warranty, and pay for high Ebay shipping costs, you really are not saving
anything at all.



  #15   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Truth" wrote in message ...

Without even hearing the Presonus, I wager the money be better spent
on the Symetrix... the older model, even better.


And why would you say that? The specs are much better on the Presonus.


I try not to pay much attention to 'specs'... but rather use my ears.


Yet, you say above, "without even HEARING the Presonus"... so you don't go by
your ears OR by specs, how are you making the decision then?


I didn't make a decision, I made a wager. I gambled based on experience,
and made it known that this was the sole basis for my recommending the
Symetrix.

I'll repeat, I've purchased a *wide* range of Presonus equipment for installs
since they first hit the market. 75% of it had failures, albeit they were generally
mechanical in nature, and an almost equal percentage developed noise in
electrical portions of the circuitry. Just under roughly 10% had failures that
required return shortly after purchase. These anomalies include anything from
'ticking' noise gates, to potentiometer inaccuracies in adjustments, to high self
noise, to failed meter bridges, and most common were switch failures. ACP-22s
and ACP-88s were apparently the most fallable of these products, yet some
of Presonus' best sellers.

Since the advent of recording 'in the box', everyone wants to develop a
cheap mic pre for their product line, usually inserting a bogus tube on
the input stage claiming to 'warm-up' the sound. The more circuitry the
manufacturer tries to cram into a single box, the poorer the quality... At
least for the most part in lower priced gear, this is a generally accurate
observation.

In the case of mic pres, no... as I openly admitted, I have not heard the
Eureka. I probably won't unless I run into a situation where that's all I
have available to use. In my little world, if I get to work as I choose,
I have no need for internal AD circuitry. By far, processing as much
as I can in the analogue domain before going digital, usually yields a
much better sounding product.


After that, I'll add in the experiences I've had with the manufacturer's
products.


The Presonus is a class A amp, has distortion rated at 0.005% while
the Symetrix boasts 0.05%


'Specs' again.... The above means absolutely zero, nothing, zip, zilch, nanda,
without knowing the complete set of methods used to make those measurements;
and once you know that, they still have little meaning because it's the marketing
department that actually makes the final decision as to what goes into the literature
and how well it's defined, substantiated, or propagandized.


Since both cost the same price, seems the Presonus engineers know how to
design a better quality product for the same costs.


Baseless commentary... even worse so than my wager. ;-)


Presonus gear that I've used (even purchased for people due to the
price range) has not impressed me nor held up well to heavy usage.


But you don't get impressed by listening to the products or the specs, only by
the brand name.


You're putting words into my mouth. My first reply clearly said that I favor
listening over any sort of 'spec' sheet. Especially since the 'specs' are often
generated by well honed prototypes or bench models, rather than from a
sample product taken off of the assembly line after the fact - which might
be waaaay off from the test model.


By heavy usage, we don't even want to know what you mean.


90% for permanent studio installations, the remainder for mobile recording
or sound reinforcement purposes. The latter used only a few days per week,
while the former could be in use from 8 to 16 hours per day in a fixed location.


The only way any equipment has ever failed on me, is when a station was
struck by lighting, and then everything went, including the phone system.


joke Sounds like a grounding problem to me. /joke


I have equipment from the 60s that still works. But I don't kick them or
throw them around as you probably do.


You're funny. Are you trying to hurt my feelings? g Just so you know,
however, I do take excellent care of my personal stuff and show the
highest respect for that which belongs to others. It would really look
kind of stupid and I wouldn't keep too many gigs, if I favored kicking
and throwing the gear. Nice 'visualization' though. I tell ya' what....
I'll hurl one of my 528s into a wall and you hurl your Eureka into the
same wall, and we'll come back and tell the OP which one survived
with the least damage. There... now we'll have out own 'spec' test
to publish !!


I have Symetrix gear that is 15+ years old that is still singing right
along... sounds and works as good today as when new.


I should hope so! Why would any gear only 15 years old just stop working?


Exactly what I am trying to illustrate. Why would gear practically NIB have
or develop electro/mechanical problems within days of coming out of the
box?


I have radios 80 years old and older that still work. With original tubes yet
too! Nothing replaced, fixed or modified.


And this relates to the preamp specifications in what way? g


The 528 (or 528E) is a multi-featured and highly flexible pre...


It sure is, and one of the most popular in use at radio stations. Yet too bad
it doesn't have an option for digital out, like the Presonus has. And too bad
the Presonus doesn't have a gate.


It seems we both see the OPs dilemma.


one can often see either of them on e-Bay for 1/2 of the OP's budget.


Very rare. Most of the time, items on Ebay for scratched and used items without
warranties and manuals go for more than I can get them for at retail cost.
Sometimes you can save $100, but when you deduct for cosmetic damage, no manual,
no warranty, and pay for high Ebay shipping costs, you really are not saving
anything at all.


You are also jumping at the first available item and not dealing with more
specific auctions and sellers that meet your standards. The 'no manual,'
'cosmetic damage' scenarios are specific to individual auction items. No
one should recommend buying the first item you see that you may want,
from a seller that has a bad rep, abused gear, or doesn't have manuals.

I only replied because my luck with Presonus gear has been less than optimal,
and my experience with Symetrix has been superbly positive. (Sorry about
those digital outs g).

As long as the OP doesn't waste his cashola on the DBX, I'll be happy. ;-)


--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com








  #16   Report Post  
Mike Cleaver
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think he answered his own question with the first post.
Most places use the Symetrix 528e
There's a reason for that.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:03:35 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
wrote:


"Truth" wrote in message ...

Without even hearing the Presonus, I wager the money be better spent
on the Symetrix... the older model, even better.

And why would you say that? The specs are much better on the Presonus.

I try not to pay much attention to 'specs'... but rather use my ears.


Yet, you say above, "without even HEARING the Presonus"... so you don't go by
your ears OR by specs, how are you making the decision then?


I didn't make a decision, I made a wager. I gambled based on experience,
and made it known that this was the sole basis for my recommending the
Symetrix.

I'll repeat, I've purchased a *wide* range of Presonus equipment for installs
since they first hit the market. 75% of it had failures, albeit they were generally
mechanical in nature, and an almost equal percentage developed noise in
electrical portions of the circuitry. Just under roughly 10% had failures that
required return shortly after purchase. These anomalies include anything from
'ticking' noise gates, to potentiometer inaccuracies in adjustments, to high self
noise, to failed meter bridges, and most common were switch failures. ACP-22s
and ACP-88s were apparently the most fallable of these products, yet some
of Presonus' best sellers.

Since the advent of recording 'in the box', everyone wants to develop a
cheap mic pre for their product line, usually inserting a bogus tube on
the input stage claiming to 'warm-up' the sound. The more circuitry the
manufacturer tries to cram into a single box, the poorer the quality... At
least for the most part in lower priced gear, this is a generally accurate
observation.

In the case of mic pres, no... as I openly admitted, I have not heard the
Eureka. I probably won't unless I run into a situation where that's all I
have available to use. In my little world, if I get to work as I choose,
I have no need for internal AD circuitry. By far, processing as much
as I can in the analogue domain before going digital, usually yields a
much better sounding product.


After that, I'll add in the experiences I've had with the manufacturer's
products.


The Presonus is a class A amp, has distortion rated at 0.005% while
the Symetrix boasts 0.05%


'Specs' again.... The above means absolutely zero, nothing, zip, zilch, nanda,
without knowing the complete set of methods used to make those measurements;
and once you know that, they still have little meaning because it's the marketing
department that actually makes the final decision as to what goes into the literature
and how well it's defined, substantiated, or propagandized.


Since both cost the same price, seems the Presonus engineers know how to
design a better quality product for the same costs.


Baseless commentary... even worse so than my wager. ;-)


Presonus gear that I've used (even purchased for people due to the
price range) has not impressed me nor held up well to heavy usage.


But you don't get impressed by listening to the products or the specs, only by
the brand name.


You're putting words into my mouth. My first reply clearly said that I favor
listening over any sort of 'spec' sheet. Especially since the 'specs' are often
generated by well honed prototypes or bench models, rather than from a
sample product taken off of the assembly line after the fact - which might
be waaaay off from the test model.


By heavy usage, we don't even want to know what you mean.


90% for permanent studio installations, the remainder for mobile recording
or sound reinforcement purposes. The latter used only a few days per week,
while the former could be in use from 8 to 16 hours per day in a fixed location.


The only way any equipment has ever failed on me, is when a station was
struck by lighting, and then everything went, including the phone system.


joke Sounds like a grounding problem to me. /joke


I have equipment from the 60s that still works. But I don't kick them or
throw them around as you probably do.


You're funny. Are you trying to hurt my feelings? g Just so you know,
however, I do take excellent care of my personal stuff and show the
highest respect for that which belongs to others. It would really look
kind of stupid and I wouldn't keep too many gigs, if I favored kicking
and throwing the gear. Nice 'visualization' though. I tell ya' what....
I'll hurl one of my 528s into a wall and you hurl your Eureka into the
same wall, and we'll come back and tell the OP which one survived
with the least damage. There... now we'll have out own 'spec' test
to publish !!


I have Symetrix gear that is 15+ years old that is still singing right
along... sounds and works as good today as when new.


I should hope so! Why would any gear only 15 years old just stop working?


Exactly what I am trying to illustrate. Why would gear practically NIB have
or develop electro/mechanical problems within days of coming out of the
box?


I have radios 80 years old and older that still work. With original tubes yet
too! Nothing replaced, fixed or modified.


And this relates to the preamp specifications in what way? g


The 528 (or 528E) is a multi-featured and highly flexible pre...


It sure is, and one of the most popular in use at radio stations. Yet too bad
it doesn't have an option for digital out, like the Presonus has. And too bad
the Presonus doesn't have a gate.


It seems we both see the OPs dilemma.


one can often see either of them on e-Bay for 1/2 of the OP's budget.


Very rare. Most of the time, items on Ebay for scratched and used items without
warranties and manuals go for more than I can get them for at retail cost.
Sometimes you can save $100, but when you deduct for cosmetic damage, no manual,
no warranty, and pay for high Ebay shipping costs, you really are not saving
anything at all.


You are also jumping at the first available item and not dealing with more
specific auctions and sellers that meet your standards. The 'no manual,'
'cosmetic damage' scenarios are specific to individual auction items. No
one should recommend buying the first item you see that you may want,
from a seller that has a bad rep, abused gear, or doesn't have manuals.

I only replied because my luck with Presonus gear has been less than optimal,
and my experience with Symetrix has been superbly positive. (Sorry about
those digital outs g).

As long as the OP doesn't waste his cashola on the DBX, I'll be happy. ;-)


Mike Cleaver Broadcast Services
Voice-overs, Newscaster, Engineering and Consulting
Vancouver, BC, Canada

  #17   Report Post  
Joe Sensor
 
Posts: n/a
Default

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:


I didn't make a decision, I made a wager. I gambled based on experience,
and made it known that this was the sole basis for my recommending the
Symetrix.

I'll repeat, I've purchased a *wide* range of Presonus equipment for installs
since they first hit the market. 75% of it had failures, albeit they were generally
mechanical in nature, and an almost equal percentage developed noise in
electrical portions of the circuitry. Just under roughly 10% had failures that
required return shortly after purchase. These anomalies include anything from
'ticking' noise gates, to potentiometer inaccuracies in adjustments, to high self
noise, to failed meter bridges, and most common were switch failures. ACP-22s
and ACP-88s were apparently the most fallable of these products, yet some
of Presonus' best sellers.



My limited experience with Presonus agrees with this. Built like crap.
  #18   Report Post  
Truth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Without even hearing the Presonus, I wager the money be better spent
on the Symetrix... the older model, even better.

And why would you say that? The specs are much better on the Presonus.

I try not to pay much attention to 'specs'... but rather use my ears.


Yet, you say above, "without even HEARING the Presonus"... so you don't go by
your ears OR by specs, how are you making the decision then?


I didn't make a decision, I made a wager.


One based not on sound quality or specs. But then, most gamblers are not too
intelligent, or they wouldn't be gambling in the first place.

I gambled based on experience,


So do millions of other people that lose all their money to casinos.

I'll repeat, I've purchased a *wide* range of Presonus equipment for installs
since they first hit the market. 75% of it had failures, albeit they were generally
mechanical in nature


Complete bull****. They would not still be in business if that were true, nor get all
the sparkling reviews.

, and an almost equal percentage developed noise in
electrical portions of the circuitry.


All the reviews claim just the opposite about the Eureka.

Just under roughly 10% had failures that
required return shortly after purchase. These anomalies include anything from
'ticking' noise gates, to potentiometer inaccuracies in adjustments, to high self
noise, to failed meter bridges, and most common were switch failures. ACP-22s
and ACP-88s were apparently the most fallable of these products, yet some
of Presonus' best sellers.


That doesn't make any sense. If they had so many problems, how could they be best
sellers?

Since the advent of recording 'in the box', everyone wants to develop a
cheap mic pre for their product line, usually inserting a bogus tube on
the input stage claiming to 'warm-up' the sound.


Right. But neither of the two in question had tubes. Anyone using tubes today is a
quack. Just like those stickers that are sold to put on your cell phone to improve
reception.

If you want tube distortion, you can create that with solid state and digital means now,
you don't actually need to use a tube to get the sound of a tube.

The more circuitry the
manufacturer tries to cram into a single box, the poorer the quality...


Actually, with most devices, it is the crap that is all hollow and has hardly anything
inside the box.

In the case of mic pres, no... as I openly admitted, I have not heard the
Eureka.


Then you should never have replied to the post. Simple. If there is a question
posted about two items, and I am not familiar with one or both of the items, I would not
respond, but let someone else who knows the items respond.

The Presonus is a class A amp, has distortion rated at 0.005% while
the Symetrix boasts 0.05%


'Specs' again.... The above means absolutely zero, nothing, zip, zilch, nanda,


That must be why every amp in the world lists the specs, because they mean absolutely
nothing. They mean nothing to you, because you don't understand them.

The only way any equipment has ever failed on me, is when a station was
struck by lighting, and then everything went, including the phone system.


joke Sounds like a grounding problem to me. /joke


Your insane. Without ground, lighting would not strike to begin with. Lightning
LIKES grounded things.

I have equipment from the 60s that still works. But I don't kick them or
throw them around as you probably do.


You're funny. Are you trying to hurt my feelings?


What feelings?

I'll hurl one of my 528s into a wall and you hurl your Eureka into the
same wall, and we'll come back and tell the OP which one survived
with the least damage.


So the durability of the case is more important than the specs of the circuitry. Are
you not embarrassed to make such statements?

Let's judge a better bottle of wine by throwing both against brick walls too and see
which one holds up better.

There... now we'll have out own 'spec' test
to publish !!


Yeah, for morons.

I have Symetrix gear that is 15+ years old that is still singing right
along... sounds and works as good today as when new.


I should hope so! Why would any gear only 15 years old just stop working?


Exactly what I am trying to illustrate.


No, much of YOUR stuff seems to go bad, and you need to start realizing it is the way you
treat the stuff. I am always fixing and repairing equipment from friends and
relatives, yet nothing of my own equipment has ever sat on my repair bench. Because I
don't abuse the stuff like you and others do.

I have radios 80 years old and older that still work. With original tubes yet
too! Nothing replaced, fixed or modified.


The 528 (or 528E) is a multi-featured and highly flexible pre...


It sure is, and one of the most popular in use at radio stations. Yet too bad
it doesn't have an option for digital out, like the Presonus has. And too bad
the Presonus doesn't have a gate.


It seems we both see the OPs dilemma.


No idea who the hell OP is.

one can often see either of them on e-Bay for 1/2 of the OP's budget.


Again, no one knows what you are talking about, but if you want to play code, then two
can play at that game.

Very rare. Most of the time, items on Ebay for scratched and used items without
warranties and manuals go for more than I can get them for at retail cost.
Sometimes you can save $100, but when you deduct for cosmetic damage, no manual,
no warranty, and pay for high Ebay shipping costs, you really are not saving
anything at all.


You are also jumping at the first available item and not dealing with more
specific auctions and sellers that meet your standards.


No, over the past decade, not ONCE has a Shure SM-7 ever sold on Ebay for less than
retail price. Even without a windscreen, banged up and damaged, morons always end up
paying more than retail for them. Because Ebay is an AUCTION site.

Do you know what an AUCTION is??

An auction is a contest in which people compete to see who can pay the MOST for an item.

The 'no manual,'
'cosmetic damage' scenarios are specific to individual auction items.


What about what the XQs contribute?

No
one should recommend buying the first item you see that you may want,
from a seller that has a bad rep, abused gear, or doesn't have manuals.


So then you agree that the DXZs are the real reason then. Good.

I only replied because my luck with Presonus gear has been less than optimal,


And you completely ignore the reviews in which more than one reviewer who were not big
fans of Presonus were really impressed with the Eureka and couldn't rave enough about it.

and my experience with Symetrix has been superbly positive.


Interesting that no one in the recording industry uses them, only in broadcast. The
specs are good enough for broadcast, and it is designed to hold up in areas with strong
RF fields, and things the recording industry doesn't really need.

(Sorry about
those digital outs g).

As long as the OP doesn't waste his cashola on the DBX, I'll be happy. ;-)


And don't forget about the TL! As long as he understands the difference between the
CR and RWQ of these amps, then all is fine.


  #19   Report Post  
Truth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think he answered his own question with the first post.
Most places use the Symetrix 528e


Most RADIO STATIONS. I never seen any recording studio use a Symetrix 528E!

There's a reason for that.


Yes, it is made for the broadcast environment, has more protection against RF, and doesn't
need the high specs the recording industry needs.


  #20   Report Post  
Truth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I cannot stand gating on voices. But then, I always disabled the damn
gate on the Orban Optimods too.


Why? So long as the audio is above the threshold, it would never be used
anyway. Only when there is dead air, and then it is a good thing to have that
gate.

Some people really like it, especially
the AOR guys for some reason.


That is not a good argument for you. Now if you said it was something the
CHR people liked, THEN you might have a point.




  #21   Report Post  
Chris Hornbeck
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:37:38 GMT, Truth wrote:

No idea who the hell OP is.


It's a common usenet convention, just as courtesy should be.
Here's another one to look up: Plonk.

Chris Hornbeck
"They'd meet at the Tout Va Bien."
-JLG, _Bande a part_, 1964
  #22   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Truth wrote:

All the reviews claim just the opposite


And now we see how you get all your groovy info about kit.

--
ha
  #23   Report Post  
agent86
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Truth wrote:


Anyone using tubes today is a quack.


I guess somebody just forgot to tell Doug Fearn, Eve Anna Manley, & Tim de
Paravacini.

--snip--


The Presonus is a class A amp, has distortion rated at 0.005% while
the Symetrix boasts 0.05%


'Specs' again.... The above means absolutely zero, nothing, zip,
zilch, nanda,


That must be why every amp in the world lists the specs, because they mean
absolutely
nothing. They mean nothing to you, because you don't understand them.


Mostly, they list the specs with no indication of how the testing was done.
Usually they list them because they know clueless ******s like you will be
impressed by them.


The only way any equipment has ever failed on me, is when a station was
struck by lighting, and then everything went, including the phone
system.


joke Sounds like a grounding problem to me. /joke


Your insane. Without ground, lighting would not strike to begin with.
Lightning LIKES grounded things.


The vast majority of all lightning strikes are from one cloud to another.
Look it up.


I have equipment from the 60s that still works. But I don't kick
them or throw them around as you probably do.


You're funny. Are you trying to hurt my feelings?


What feelings?

I'll hurl one of my 528s into a wall and you hurl your Eureka into the
same wall, and we'll come back and tell the OP which one survived
with the least damage.


So the durability of the case is more important than the specs of the
circuitry. Are you not embarrassed to make such statements?


Somebody who bothers to build quality equipment will usually care enough
about it to put it in a quality case. There are exceptions, on both sides.


Let's judge a better bottle of wine by throwing both against brick walls
too and see which one holds up better.


Now that's just dumb.

--another snip--

It seems we both see the OPs dilemma.


No idea who the hell OP is.


Original Poster. New to usenet?


one can often see either of them on e-Bay for 1/2 of the OP's budget.


Again, no one knows what you are talking about, but if you want to play
code, then two can play at that game.

Very rare. Most of the time, items on Ebay for scratched and used
items without warranties and manuals go for more than I can get them
for at retail cost. Sometimes you can save $100, but when you deduct
for cosmetic damage, no manual, no warranty, and pay for high Ebay
shipping costs, you really are not saving anything at all.


You are also jumping at the first available item and not dealing with
more specific auctions and sellers that meet your standards.


No, over the past decade, not ONCE has a Shure SM-7 ever sold on Ebay for
less than
retail price. Even without a windscreen, banged up and damaged, morons
always end up
paying more than retail for them.


That's hard to believe. Why would anybody go to Ebay & pay more than
retail when Markertek, Full Compass, & even AMS sells them every day for
substantially less than retail?


Because Ebay is an AUCTION site.

Do you know what an AUCTION is??

An auction is a contest in which people compete to see who can pay the
MOST for an item.

The 'no manual,'
'cosmetic damage' scenarios are specific to individual auction items.


What about what the XQs contribute?

No
one should recommend buying the first item you see that you may want,
from a seller that has a bad rep, abused gear, or doesn't have manuals.


So then you agree that the DXZs are the real reason then. Good.

I only replied because my luck with Presonus gear has been less than
optimal,


And you completely ignore the reviews in which more than one reviewer who
were not big fans of Presonus were really impressed with the Eureka and
couldn't rave enough about it.


Reviews in magazines that get advertizing revenue from Presonus?


and my experience with Symetrix has been superbly positive.


Interesting that no one in the recording industry uses them, only in
broadcast. The specs are good enough for broadcast, and it is designed
to hold up in areas with strong RF fields, and things the recording
industry doesn't really need.


Have you ever actually met anybody in the recording industry? Where do you
get these ideas?


  #24   Report Post  
Steve King
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"hank alrich" wrote in message
. ..
Truth wrote:

All the reviews claim just the opposite


And now we see how you get all your groovy info about kit.


I plonked Mr. (Not Much) Truth. He ceased to be amusing.

Steve King


  #25   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Have a nice day.


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