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  #81   Report Post  
Ian
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

thelizman wrote:

sancho wrote:

have we heard back from ian on whether he gave his okay for this?



I have had quite a bit of contact with Ian the last week. He's responded
in kind to every one of my e-mails. He has made it clear that he has
only ever given permission to one person to reproduce the FAQ - thats
Eddie Runner (which to the best of my knowledge, Eddie hasn't done so).

Ian's viewpoint on this is that there's 'not alot he can do to stop [the
plagiarism of his FAQ]'. I can understand completely - this community
relies on people with ethics and morals to maintain its standards. I'm a
little more visceral, however. Mobileaudio.com has a clear copyright
statement, as well as a clear distribution statement for the FAQ. I am
going to propose to Ian that he copyright the FAQ under the Creative
Commons Copyright which best fits the current model so that preserving
the sanctity of the FAQ is enforcable by simply contacting the offenders
ISP.


I'll speak for myself here.

I have received lots of requests to duplicate the FAQ. I almost always
reply with my standard reply:

Please do not create copies extra copies of the FAQ on your website,
but instead create a link to the official location. This helps to
prevent confusion, ensures that the FAQ remains objective, and helps
prevent the document from forking.

I can't prevent other people from making copies of the FAQ -- and as
long as the FAQ remains unaltered and includes the notices in Section
0, then I don't really care (even though I discourage this).

I _do_ mind when people copy the FAQ (either in part or in its entirety),
and either remove the notices at the beginning of the document, don't
provide proper attribution, etc. Some sites have done this, and many
have stopped after I reminded them of the problem. Others have continued
to violate the terms in the FAQ.


With regard to mobileaudio.com and the FAQ: Although the FAQ is hosted
on my site, mobileaudio.com, it is certainly not my property. It belongs
to its authors and the rec.audio.car community. As such, the notice at
the beginning of the FAQ supersedes the mobileaudio.com copyright.


Thanks -


Ian Bjorhovde

rec.audio.car FAQ Maintainer



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  #82   Report Post  
sancho
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

thelizman wrote:

Eddie Runner wrote:
Sancho and Lizzy are just posturing.... ha ha


Oh please eddie, everyone knows I have bad posture.


and i can barely see over my desk...
  #83   Report Post  
sancho
 
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Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

EFFENDI wrote:

Yeah ICE could have worked with enough support


you could have called it '**** we've been over a kajillion times'

or 'here's something else to annoy you'
--
sancho
truth in advertising
  #84   Report Post  
Lee
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

Good God you guys are freaks.

Quoted from the Introduction of rec.audio.car FAQ 4.5.2 :

"This document may be freely distributed and reproduced as long as i
remains wholly unaltered and includes this notice. If you d
redistribute this document, especially on a commercial basis, pleas
contact the FAQ maintainer before doing so. "

My sight is not commercial; it is not for profit. The document'
orginal content is intact and all credits and notices are included.

".. freely distributed and reproduced .."

Good grief you guys are amazing .. perhaps you should up your meds
-
Le
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  #85   Report Post  
Lee
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

Ian wrote:

.. as long as the FAQ remains unaltered and includes the
notices in Section 0, then I don't really care ...


Ian, Thanks for clearing this up for the freakshow. I hadn't realize
that the main purpose of this newsgroup had been reduced to an exercis
in Sado-Masochism
-
Le
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  #86   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

Lee wrote:
Good God you guys are freaks.


Thank you.

Quoted from the Introduction of rec.audio.car FAQ 4.5.2 :


It's actually 4.52. Thanks for noticing.


"This document may be freely distributed and reproduced as long as it
remains wholly unaltered and includes this notice. If you do
redistribute this document, especially on a commercial basis, please
contact the FAQ maintainer before doing so. "


You altered the FAQ. You did not contact the FAQ maintainer before
altering it.

My sight is not commercial; it is not for profit.


Site. And yes it is. You may not profit monetarily, but you raise
visibility of yourself. Nobody is faulting you for doing this - its
America. But don't pretend like you're acting purely altruistically.

The document's
orginal content is intact and all credits and notices are included.


From your posting from the FAQ from not more than a week ago (and I
took a screenshot):

"This is the FAQ list for the Usenet newsgroup rec.audio.car,
[previously] maintained by Ian D. Bjorhovde"

You have recently changed it back to

"This is the FAQ list for the Usenet newsgroup rec.audio.car, maintained
by Ian D. Bjorhovde"

Theif and a liar.

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums
http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

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  #87   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

sancho wrote:
thelizman wrote:


and i can barely see over my desk...


Is it because you have the seat all the way back, or because the plastic
jesus on the keyboard is blocking the view?

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums
http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
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  #88   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

He is STILL calling us names
and wondering why no one here likes him.....

Lee wrote:

Good God you guys are freaks.


  #89   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

You left this part out LEE

IAN WROTE
I can't prevent other people from making copies of the FAQ -- and as
long as the FAQ remains unaltered and includes the notices in Section
0, then I don't really care (even though I discourage this).


For get about the even though I discourage this part..??
selective quoting eh?

Lee wrote:

Ian wrote:

.. as long as the FAQ remains unaltered and includes the
notices in Section 0, then I don't really care ...


Ian, Thanks for clearing this up for the freakshow. I hadn't realized
that the main purpose of this newsgroup had been reduced to an exercise
in Sado-Masochism.
--
Lee
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  #90   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

and again LEE

WHO are you and HOW do I know you?



  #91   Report Post  
Lee
 
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Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

Eddie Runner wrote:
I came in the thread where you claimed to be a RAC regular but
didnt know anyone here that were regulars and the regulars didnt
know you....


Again, I don't think I ever claimed to be a regular; I said I joine
rec.audio.car 8 years ago and that I was not a newbie.

I might have a problem with you STEALING Ians FAQ though...


Oh come on! Stealing? Is the one on his server missing? He has alread
addressed this point.

Why not just atart fresh...???


Because the point was to do something for this newsgroup.

Lee wrote:
This is another asinine assumption; I never stated it was going t

be
mine.


No, its NOT an assinine assumption...
EVEN THOUGH other folks write the articles, YOU PUT THEM
TOGETHER and choose what goes and what stays...!


No, that might be the way you do things. When I've writte
collaborative documentation in the past and will in the future, I wor
on creating a consensus. I usually put together a team, and the tea
decides.

.. are YOU good enough to do this correctly???


Yes, but you would have no way of knowing.

Lee wrote:
If you read my first post in that thread, there was no
suggestion that I was better than anyone here.


Some of us have gotten that impression... But not from the
first post... From yourother posts....


If you check, you will see that my posts never started the insults
just responded to them; nor did they claim that I was better ..

Lee wrote:
There were no insults directed at anyone.


I saw you insult Lizzard!
And wasnt it an insult just above whenyou said I made an
ASSININE ASSUMPTION..??


I responded to others that were attacking me. Again, I did no
initiate any attacks, claims or insults, they were the results of firs
being attacked. You jumped in, attacking me, apparently with no regar
to the facts. And no, I insulted the assumption.

Eddie Runner wrote:
I attack you for lying to us about how long you
have been a RAC member...


I've never lied about that ..


OK, so if that is correct you posted on RAC in 1996....
So what? Does that make you a regular..??


So, since Ian hasn't been "active" is he now considered a newbie?
never said I was a "regular" .. I said I wasn't a newbie.

Eddie Runner wrote:
AND, when you say you were a RAC regular ..
Can you see my view on this..??


I'm sorry, but when did I say I was a regular .. If I said I was
regular, I apologize .. I am not a regular; I am also not a newbie.

Lee wrote:
1) I was attacked for offering help.


not by me...
[/color]

No, but you later joined in on the attacking with no regard for th
facts ..

I attacked you cause you claimed you were a
RAC member in good standing...


Again, see point above.

And because you were attacking some of the REAL RAC members
(although it may have just been you dfending yourself against
them, they can be tough sometimes)


But it is okay to attack someone defending themselves regardless of th
facts?

You assumed this other person's claims were true and just pitched righ
in .. and this other person; a stellar beacon of truth and honesty? On
not prone to over reaction or exaggeration?

Do you see my point of view?

Typicly there are hidden motives... I havent figgured yours out ye

but
there are probably some hidden there somewhere... ya cant blame us
for being cautious...


So shoot first and ask questions later? I have no hidden motives,
stated simply what I was offering to do, and then I was attacked.

Lee wrote:
5) It was claimed that I am here only to steal rac'ers to build my
forum -- another illogical assumption considering the very lo

number
of people to "steal" compared to the size of our curren

membership.

Now there is where it makes you look like you r better N us...
Thats the kinda stuff that ****es the RACers off at cha....

you just said,
Im trying to help you morons, I wouldnt come to RAC to steal members
because your members suck compared to ours....


No, I said: if you think I was here to steal members, think about the
logic behind that; I have plenty of members .. look at the numbers, it
doesn't make sense that I would be here to steal members.

Not one word of my quote qualifies anything or anyone, it simply states
the numbers are not there to support the theory that I was here steal
members. Tell me where in that quote I wrote anything about the
quality of this newsgroup or its members?

Lee wrote:
I can see now how it would be very difficult for some of you to
understand simply wanting to help; it is difficult to understand a
characteristic of which you have no first hand knowledge.


there is another insult directed at us....


Yeah. But that one was probably due.

Lee wrote:
If the senior members of this newsgroup were actually interested in
moving things in any kind of positive direction, they would not

attack
first then ask questions.


Do the senior members have any say in RACs direction??
there are no moderators and no way to ban folks if they get outa

hand...
We cannot easily direct it or control it, which is why I LIKE IT!!


Actually you do whether you are aware of it or not -- I'm thinking
you're more aware of it that you'll admit. People read what goes on in
here and are afraid to post because they don't want to be ragged on ..
by ragging on people instead of explaining, you promote less
participation by the visitors -- but I'm sure you already know this.

Lee wrote:
3) I was attacked because some people want to assert their

"dominance"
over this newsgroup.


Yeah, you tried that and the regulars shoved it right back in your
own face.


No. I did not try to assert any dominance here. I asserted that the
behavior by some towards me was both meritless and undeserved.

The idea that there should be anyone dominating the newsgroup is
anti-thematic, it is a public forum, and yet you have supported the
ideas posted by the same person that posted this:

"He apparently doesn't realize that teamROCS has already won the battle
for domination of rec.audio.car once already."

Do you support this idea? The idea that one group should dominate,
control and repress the expression of others? That is what this has
all been, and you've been part of it.
--
Lee
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  #92   Report Post  
MZ
 
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Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

"He apparently doesn't realize that teamROCS has already won the battle
for domination of rec.audio.car once already."

Do you support this idea? The idea that one group should dominate,
control and repress the expression of others? That is what this has
all been, and you've been part of it.


I think you're missing another joke or something. "teamROCS" clearly hasn't
"dominated, controlled, and repressed the expression of others."

Quit being such a drama queen.


  #93   Report Post  
Lee
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

Eddie Runner wrote:
For get about the even though I discourage
this part..?? selective quoting eh?


No, but apparently you guys missed the ".. I don't really care ..
part of his post, thus my quoting it. How sneaky of me to exclude th
rest of his post in my quote .. the point was, he stated that h
doesn't really care .. how unclear is that?

and again LEE

WHO are you and HOW do I know you?


Apparently you don't know me .. so you should always attack those tha
you don't know? You should always assume that those that are new to yo
are evil?

You guys were and are off base, that's all there is to it -- and no
one of you has acknowledged it. And of course I don't expect you to -
from recent history, I'd say the reaction will be more over the to
hate being directed my way for merely mentioning the idea that anyon
here acted inappropriately
-
Le
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  #94   Report Post  
MZ
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

For get about the even though I discourage
this part..?? selective quoting eh?


No, but apparently you guys missed the ".. I don't really care .. "
part of his post, thus my quoting it. How sneaky of me to exclude the
rest of his post in my quote .. the point was, he stated that he
doesn't really care .. how unclear is that?


I think you're being a little disingenuous here. He said he doesn't really
care but he discourages it. In other words, even though he's discouraging
you from hosting the FAQ and would prefer that you just link it, you've
decided to do it anyway. How come?


  #95   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
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Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

Lee wrote:

Again, I don't think I ever claimed to be a regular; I said I joined
rec.audio.car 8 years ago and that I was not a newbie.


You still havent told me who you are..
If you were here 8 years ago I might remember you but I will
need a few more hints...

this is the third time I have nicely asked you who you are.

I am getting the feeling you dont wanna say.
what cha got to hide?
When Im tryin to be nice you dont answer, I guess you prefer
a hard time..??



  #96   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
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Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

he aint got no sense of humor... folks like that can never
understand the deep philosphy of RAC...

MZ wrote:

"He apparently doesn't realize that teamROCS has already won the battle
for domination of rec.audio.car once already."

Do you support this idea? The idea that one group should dominate,
control and repress the expression of others? That is what this has
all been, and you've been part of it.


I think you're missing another joke or something. "teamROCS" clearly hasn't
"dominated, controlled, and repressed the expression of others."

Quit being such a drama queen.


  #97   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

Lee wrote:

Apparently you don't know me .. so you should always attack those that
you don't know? You should always assume that those that are new to you
are evil?


???
Your the one that said I DID KNOW YOU!
You said you tried to sell me some web space...
dont you remember posting that??

Now this is the 4th time i have nicely asked you
for more information, but you appearantly dont wanna
have a decent conversation you just wanna
whine about things....

Eddie Runner

  #98   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

Lee wrote:

Again, I don't think I ever claimed to be a regular; I said I joined
rec.audio.car 8 years ago and that I was not a newbie.

YOU LIE! You BACKPEDAL! You said "I've been here for 8 years...."

Oh come on! Stealing? Is the one on his server missing? He has already
addressed this point.


Yes, Ian quite diplomatically addressed this point. At no time did you
acquire permission to copy the FAQ from Ian. Ergo, you stole it.

Because the point was to do something for this newsgroup.


No, the point for you was to do something for your FORUM by EXPLOITING
this newsgroup.

No, that might be the way you do things. When I've written
collaborative documentation in the past and will in the future, I work
on creating a consensus.


Well, the consensus here is that you're a lying stealing asshat, so good
job.

I usually put together a team, and the team
decides.


What team "decided" to steal the FAQ?


If you check, you will see that my posts never started the insults,
just responded to them; nor did they claim that I was better ..

I responded to others that were attacking me. Again, I did not
initiate any attacks, claims or insults, they were the results of first
being attacked. You jumped in, attacking me, apparently with no regard
to the facts. And no, I insulted the assumption.


You "insulted the assumption"? That sounds like someone my ex girlfriend
would say. Check the plumbing, are you a woman? Cause you sure argue
like one.

Is this the "mommy he started it" defense? Like an arrogant sumbitch you
assert your supremacy over everyone else, but in truth you're a child
with a webpage. Grow up, and start helping people - stop bitching.

So, since Ian hasn't been "active" is he now considered a newbie? I
never said I was a "regular" .. I said I wasn't a newbie.


Ian has contributed more to this group over the years than you could
hope. His temporary absense differs from your complete and total lack of
evident participation. Besides which, a "noob" is often more about how
you act. There are guys on this group right now who barely have a year
on their record, and they're more worthy of praise than you.

Do you support this idea? The idea that one group should dominate,
control and repress the expression of others? That is what this has
all been, and you've been part of it.


We're Americans! Of course we don't believe this idea - unless the
dominant group is us, and the subordinate group is the rest of the planet.

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums
http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

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  #99   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

MZ wrote:
I think you're missing another joke or something. "teamROCS" clearly hasn't
"dominated, controlled, and repressed the expression of others."

Quit being such a drama queen.


Hmm...he's feeling "repressed". He's acting like a drama "queen". I'm
seeing a very disturbing pattern about Lee.

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums
http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

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  #100   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Default The FAQ needs a major update

MZ wrote:

I think you're being a little disingenuous here. He said he doesn't really
care but he discourages it. In other words, even though he's discouraging
you from hosting the FAQ and would prefer that you just link it, you've
decided to do it anyway. How come?


Lee does not respect the intellectual property of others.

You know what is worse - he deliberatly made changes to the FAQ, and
when he was called on it, he unchanged them to cover his ass without
even an apology. What a tool!

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums
http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

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  #101   Report Post  
sancho
 
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Lee wrote:

Oh come on! Stealing? Is the one on his server missing? He has already
addressed this point.


yeah... he sais he wasn't happy you stole it, but there isn't much he
can do about it...

Because the point was to do something for this newsgroup.


since when was 'this newsgroup' synonymous with 'lee's forum'?

.. are YOU good enough to do this correctly???


Yes, but you would have no way of knowing.


he could look at 'your' faq and see how many revisions it's seen in the
'two years' you've been 'maintaining' it...

So, since Ian hasn't been "active" is he now considered a newbie? I
never said I was a "regular" .. I said I wasn't a newbie.


ian was active before... very much so... i don't believe you ever were,
n00b0r

5) It was claimed that I am here only to steal rac'ers to build my
forum -- another illogical assumption considering the very low

number
of people to "steal" compared to the size of our current

membership.


you didn't steal us, you stole r.a.c. and the rac-faq to use as
'content' on your site
--
sancho
  #102   Report Post  
sancho
 
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Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

MZ wrote:

I think you're missing another joke or something. "teamROCS"

clearly hasn't
"dominated, controlled, and repressed the expression of others."


how could we? usenet is juat about as democratic an institution as any...

nobody is denied FREE SPEECH

not even you
--
sancho
  #103   Report Post  
Lee
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update

Eddie Runner wrote:
Your the one that said I DID KNOW YOU!
You said you tried to sell me some web space...
dont you remember posting that??


Actually I believe that I wrote that I had offered to host your sit
for free. I sent you an email a while back .. let me make sure I'm no
wrong .. you are the author of the Car Audio Basics tutorials right? I
so, yes, I emailed you and offered to give you hosting space for you
site free .. not sure how long ago that was, your reply was tha
someone else had already offered and no thanks. That was all there wa
to it.

.. you just wanna whine about things....


Let's see, in the last couple days, in this newsgroup, I've been calle
a newbie, a liar, a thief, stupid, no-talent, a spammer, ***-clown, an
moron just to mention a few. I probably have a right to whine. O
course if you consider the source for most of this .. perhaps you ar
right
-
Le
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  #104   Report Post  
Lee
 
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Eddie Runner wrote:
he aint got no sense of humor... folks like that can
never understand the deep philosphy of RAC...


I've got a great sense of humor, when things are funny.

Are you saying that the RAC philosophy is:

abusing people == a funny?

That doesn't really qualify as all that deep does it? Sounds more lik
slap-stick to me .. you know, Three Stooges kind of humor, except les
creative
-
Le
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  #105   Report Post  
Lee
 
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Eddie Runner:

I *was* wrong, you aren't the person I was thinking you were. You
aren't losing your mind. As you must have realized if you read my last
post, I thought you were someone else. I apologize for the confusion.
--
Lee
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  #106   Report Post  
sancho
 
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Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

Lee wrote:

That doesn't really qualify as all that deep does it? Sounds more like
slap-stick to me .. you know, Three Stooges kind of humor, except less
creative.


are you assing on the three stooges now?

i say we hang'im
--
sancho
  #107   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default LEE has no references! (I guess I called your bluff)

OK, so now your saying YOU DONT KNOW ME...???
(I guess I called your bluff)
ha ha ha

That leaves you with ZERO!
You dont know ANYONE here..!!
I was trying to give you the benifit of the doubt about you
being a RAC kinda guy, but now you admit YOU DONT KNOW
ANYONE ON RAC!!!!

Notta, Zip, Zilch, donuts, zero, no one, nobody, ...

And you want our respect....????

Lee wrote:

Eddie Runner:

I *was* wrong, you aren't the person I was thinking you were. You
aren't losing your mind. As you must have realized if you read my last
post, I thought you were someone else. I apologize for the confusion.
--
Lee


  #108   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lee doesnt know Eddie After all

Lee wrote:

let me make sure I'm not
wrong .. you are the author of the Car Audio Basics tutorials right?


No, you made a mistake...

I am Eddie Runner you know, twfer!
http://www.twfer.com
in the old days just known as installer...
Installin since 1974

Creator of the Installer Mailing List http://www.installer.com/tech/iml
(professionals in the 12 volt field only)
Creator of the Mobile Electronics Mailing List
http://www.installer.com/tech/meml
Founding member of teamROCS http://www.teamrocs.com
The one that put Richard Clark in his place for lieing about his conquests.
The one that debunked Richard Clarks CAT5 Ideas
http://www.installer.com/tech/cat5.html
The one that taught Tom Nosaine that location DOES matter.
http://www.installer.com/tech/aiming2.html
The one that taught Dave Navone about vintage car audio amps.
The one that taught many amp manufacturers that bridging DOES NOT half the
impedence.
The one that solved the bass trap theory
http://www.installer.com/tech/aiming.html
The one that told The Sound Solutions to goto hell
The one that told Soundstream to use a nekkid girl in thier adds (and they did)
The one that brought Car Audio online in 1982 *YES 1982*
The one that Judged the very first World Finals
The one that wrote so many great car audio tech articles
http://www.installer.com/tech
The one that first put 15s in the doors (two in each door)
The one that writes his own T/S software
Forum Moderator at http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
Technical advisor for too many companies to name here..
The owner of installer.com of course
The owner of River Oaks Car Stereo in Houston
Everyday installer
The Unimog guy http://tx4x4.com/unimog.html
The Hummer guy http://tx4x4.com/hummer.html

And so much more I cant sit here and write all this, I am
too modest... But if ya do need more lemme know... ;-)

Eddie Runner




  #109   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks the THREE STOOGES!!

If he is messin with the stooges, he has gone too far...!!

sancho wrote:

Lee wrote:

That doesn't really qualify as all that deep does it? Sounds more like
slap-stick to me .. you know, Three Stooges kind of humor, except less
creative.


are you assing on the three stooges now?

i say we hang'im
--
sancho


  #110   Report Post  
thelizman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

Lee wrote:

I *was* wrong,


That's nothing new.

Learn to quote, asshat.


--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums
http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.


  #111   Report Post  
thelizman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lee is a Moron! He Attacks Eddie Runner!!

sancho wrote:

are you assing on the three stooges now?

i say we hang'im


I got some 8 gauge power wire...

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums
http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.
  #112   Report Post  
Ian
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update

Lee wrote:


I've sent him half a dozen emails regarding this topic over the last
couple of years with no response. It is also clear that he is no
longer active here. I would prefer his official handing off of the
responsibilities, but at some point we have to realize that it has
simply been abandoned.


Lee,

I have tried to be diplomatic.

I have never received any updates or additions for the FAQ from you.

When I first found that your site had copied the FAQ, without permission,
and then proceeded to remove the FAQ notice and other attribution, I
requested that you fix this (you didn't). Apparently that changed at
some point.

However, your copy of the FAQ on your website is *STILL* not complete. You
have stripped out half of section 0. FYI, here is the rest of the text
that you do not display on your website:


============Missing Info============================================== ===
[This document is posted once per month to the Usenet newsgroups
rec.audio.car], rec.answers and news.answers, and is available via
anonymous FTP from:

ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/rec.audio.car/FAQ/

It is also available on the World Wide Web (WWW) and can be accessed using
the URL:

http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq/

If you do not have access to FTP or a WWW client (such as Netscape or
Mosaic) and cannot find the FAQ on any of the aforementioned newsgroups,
you can obtain the FAQ via email by sending email to
with the following three lines in the message body:

`send usenet/rec.audio.car/FAQ/part1'
`send usenet/rec.audio.car/FAQ/part2'
`send usenet/rec.audio.car/FAQ/part3'
`send usenet/rec.audio.car/FAQ/part4'
`send usenet/rec.audio.car/FAQ/part5'

Note that the rtfm.mit.edu server is a very popular machine, and
accordingly, responses to requests may be slow, especially via the
mail-server. Please be patient when using this service.

Changes to this document are listed in the last section. See section 9
Changes.

============End of Missing Info=========================================

Section 0 also includes a table of contents for the document, which I did
not include above.

I am not going to spend the time to go through the rest of the document
posted on your website to try and figure out what else might be missing.



I did receive your emails asking to take over the FAQ, but after your
shenanigans, it was clear to me that you (and your site) clearly were
not interested in maintaining the FAQ's integrity. I _am_ interested
in protecting the FAQ. _That_ is why I chose to ignore your email.


As I said before -- I have received many emails asking about updates for
the FAQ, and to each one I ask for assistance in updating sections, adding
new sections, etc. Until this past week, I have only received one very
minor update from Mark Zarella in the past 4 years.

My job as the FAQ maintainer is _not_ to write the document, even though
I have contributed sections from time to time. If no one else is going
to provide new or updated material, the FAQ does not get updated.



Ian D. Bjorhovde

rec.audio.car FAQ Maintainer




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
  #113   Report Post  
Lee
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update

Originally posted by Ian:
I have tried to be diplomatic.


From the looks of this post, and the lack of any email received by me
from you *ever* -- you haven't or aren't doing so.

I have never received any updates or additions
for the FAQ from you.


I have never sent you any updates or additions. I've never stated that
I had sent you updates or additions. I stated that I sent you multiple
emails regarding the condition of the FAQ pointing out the fact that it
is no longer being updated and needs to be .. I received *NO* response
from any of my emails.

When I first found that your site had copied the FAQ, without
permission


THIS IS A FALSE CLAIM.

Get your facts straight before accusing me of doing anything
unethical.

Your permission is granted within the text of the FAQ. If you didn't
want people to copy or distribute the FAQ, you should not have placed:


"This document may be freely distributed and reproduced.."

in the Introduction. How confusing is that?

and then proceeded to remove the FAQ notice and other
attribution


THIS IS A FALSE CLAIM.

Get your facts straight before accusing me of doing anything
unethical.

The FAQ notice was posted at the same time the FAQ was, 7/2002 -- The
FAQ was posted in it's entirety at that time. The only recent change
that has been made to the copy posted on the forum is the
"[previously]" attribute inserted preceding your name in the
introduction, it was added due to lack of information to the contrary
or any response from repeated attempts to contact you. Not being
available, in this case, indicated you were no longer active. Once you
posted that you were still maintaining the FAQ, that attribute was
removed.

I requested that you fix this (you didn't).


If you ever sent an email to me, I never received it. I've never seen
a post from you regarding our forum's posting of the FAQ in this
newsgroup either. I've never seen a post from you regarding the FAQ on
our forum as well. If you have placed a post in either this newsgroup
and/or our forum and I missed it, my apologies, but I have not received
*any* communication from you in any forum via any media in over two
years.

You know Ian, if you had sent me an email and received no response and
didn't try any one of the other options I mentioned above, then were
you really trying? Were you really trying preserve the "Integrity of
the FAQ?" I personally don't think you've tried for quite some time
and this is your attempt at averting the attention from this valid
point. Of course I will be attacked for daring to mentioning the
possibility that the great Ian has been remiss in his duties.

Apparently that changed at some point.


THIS IS A FALSE CLAIM.

Get your facts straight before accusing me of doing anything
unethical.

Again, nothing has changed regarding the FAQ credits and/or
introduction since it was posted with the exception of the attribute
mentioned above.

However, your copy of the FAQ on your website is *STILL* not
complete.


You pointed out the distribution paragraph in the Introduction. I
excluded that part based the fact that the document they were reading
would NOT be available through those channels, as it was changing and
with NO input from you, as you subsequently admit, there was no
information to the contrary. Perhaps it would have been more fitting
to include it with the addition of "Original Version" available, and
for this I stand corrected.

Section 0 also includes a table of contents for the document,
which I did not include above.


The table of contents *is* the listing of the FAQ:
http://tinyurl.com/3a22r

I am not going to spend the time to go through the rest of the

document
posted on your website to try and figure out what else might be

missing.

Sounds like you already did and you didn't find anything else missing.


I did receive your emails asking to take over the FAQ,


And for THOSE THAT CALLED ME A LIAR on this topic take notice. To each
of you, that with no knowledge of facts, stated unequivocally that I
was a liar, is there one of you man enough to admit you were wrong and
apologize? I don't think so.


I did receive your emails asking to take over the FAQ, but after
your shenanigans, it was clear to me that you (and your site)
clearly were not interested in maintaining the FAQ's integrity.


After my shenanigans? When? Are you saying that you received my email
two years ago, then waited until now to judge me unworthy? Or are you
saying that you received my email two years ago, reviewed my sight,
noticed something missing, and instead of pointing out what needed to
be changed and discussing the future of the FAQ, you simply chose not
to respond? Or are you saying that you sent me an email, and I
possibly never received it? From how your post reads, you are
suggesting that I have been something less than above board on this
topic, and if that is what you're suggesting, then you do not have your
facts straight and you owe me an apology.

I _am_ interested in protecting the FAQ. _That_ is
why I chose to ignore your email.


So, you did ignore them. You didn't respond two years ago, or before
that, or after? A simple email stating that you were still active in
maintaining them would have been too much trouble?

As I said before -- I have received many emails asking about
updates for the FAQ, and to each one I ask for assistance in
updating sections, adding new sections, etc.


When the newsgroup created the FAQ in the first place, did you simply
wait around for people to organize and it spontaneously snowballed into
all those sections? Or did you have to promote and marshal the efforts
of others to stimulate its creation?

Sitting back and waiting on things to happen isn't what I call actively
maintaining the FAQ -- I call that abandoning it.

It seems clear to me that this is not about the condition of the FAQ,
BUT the control of them. If anyone here was indeed worried about
creating something useful for the community instead of preserving the
status quo, the response would have been helpful not insulting and
evasive. I am sure, at one point, many here were here to be helpful,
but it seems clear now the past helpfulness has decayed into rancid
turf fighting.

Ian, I call on you to either actively persue the improvement and
updating of the FAQ or relinquish your claim to be the maintainer and
"officially" pass the torch to someone else. I state here now, due to
being responsible for bringing this issue to light and any question as
to motive, am not seeking, nor will accept those responsibilities.
--
Lee
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  #114   Report Post  
MZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update

I have tried to be diplomatic.

From the looks of this post, and the lack of any email received by me
from you *ever* -- you haven't or aren't doing so.


Lee, I was helpful to you at the beginning, but you're really starting to be
a prick. Go away. No one except for your car audio forum chums agrees with
you. I'm snipping the rest of your pathetic argument and your apparent lack
of reading comprehension.


  #115   Report Post  
Lee
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update

Originally posted by MZ
Lee, I was helpful to you at the beginning, but you're
really starting to be a prick. Go away.


Really? Where? I hadn't seen anything posted with your name on it tha
was helpful .. I'm not sure a qualification of "disingenuous" directe
at me is being helpful. And I pretty sure calling me a prick isn'
helpful either. Just so you know, being a prick is calling people name
simply based on the fact that they don't agree with you, supportin
others that do the same and/or simply calling them names for lack o
anything better to say. If you have a point, besides the one on you
head, make it. If you don't have the intellectual aptitude to come u
with something better than "we're right and you're wrong", then go bac
to your sandbox
-
Le
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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  #116   Report Post  
MZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update

Lee, I was helpful to you at the beginning, but you're
really starting to be a prick. Go away.


Really? Where? I hadn't seen anything posted with your name on it that
was helpful ..


Yeah? Well I guess you wouldn't mind removing the suggestions I made about
the FAQ that I, like Ian, never gave you permission to post on your site.

I'm not sure a qualification of "disingenuous" directed
at me is being helpful. And I pretty sure calling me a prick isn't
helpful either. Just so you know, being a prick is calling people names
simply based on the fact that they don't agree with you, supporting
others that do the same and/or simply calling them names for lack of
anything better to say.


No, it's based on the demonstrable fact that you're an asshole.


  #117   Report Post  
Lee
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update

Originally posted by MZ
No, it's based on the demonstrable fact that
you're an asshole.


heh, thanks for proving my point, now wash the sand off your feet whe
you go back into the house
-
Le
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  #118   Report Post  
MZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update

heh, thanks for proving my point, now wash the sand off your feet when
you go back into the house.
--
Lee


While you're at it, can you fix your stupid usenet gateway so that it places
replies in the correct position in the thread? For those of us who actually
know how to use computers, it's annoying to see all your replies in this
thread as a response to something Lizard said 3 days ago. Who knows? Maybe
if you search google you can find some code that will fix that problem for
you. Then you can even post the code on your website even if the original
author asks you not to.


  #119   Report Post  
narcolept
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update


"Lee" wrote in message
s.com...
snipped drivel trying to say that Ian was wrong

Ian, I call on you to either actively persue the improvement and
updating of the FAQ or relinquish your claim to be the maintainer and
"officially" pass the torch to someone else. I state here now, due to
being responsible for bringing this issue to light and any question as
to motive, am not seeking, nor will accept those responsibilities.
--
Lee
-------------------------------------------------------------snipped

Lee's spam

So.. uhh.. Lee.. you don't want the responsibilities, so I CALL ON YOU to go
ahead and remove the F.A.Q from your forum. You linked your forum to us, not
the other way around, so it's OUR sandbox you're in, buddy. If you aren't
seeking and don't want said responsibilities, then you should remove the FAQ
and replace it with a link to Ian's version, since he has the proper version
and will be updating it, which we wouldn't expect you to put yourself
through the torture of having to do everytime he updates it. OUR sandbox,
buddy. If you're going to respond to this, please reply directly rather
than replying to some thread entitled "How Do I wire my anus in series" by
someone who is now probably a highly respected member of your forum in 1998.


narcolept
-----
tell Carl I said Hello, ask him how |V| is doing


  #120   Report Post  
Lee
 
Posts: n/a
Default The FAQ needs a major update

Originally posted by narcolept
So.. uhh.. Lee.. you don't want the responsibilities


I said I would not ask for or accept them, I didn't say I didn't wan
them. I tried to take them on already and Ian ignored my emails. Now i
I tried, considering the festering mess this issue has taken on, i
would be used to beat the issue to death. The issue is not that
become the maintainer; the issue is for someone to that will activel
try and improve it to become the maintainer -- as was the case when i
was created. The FAQ needs to be updated. It did not have an activ
maintainer pursuing its improvements. I think the last update bein
over FOUR YEARS ago proves my point.

You linked your forum to us, not the other way around, so it's
OUR sandbox you're in, buddy.


And here is the problem. You think this is *YOURS* -- it is ours. I
does not belong to you, or anyone else. It is a public forum. I
belongs to all of us. It is this kind of perspective that results i
narrow thinking and possessive turf wars.

And do you think that you could actually make some kind of valid poin
instead of simply trying to dissuade me by insulting me
-
Le
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