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Onkyo Precise Acoustics



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 29th 20, 08:10 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
gregz
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Posts: 131
Default Onkyo Precise Acoustics

I have some nice speakers made with remnants from Parts Express excess. 8
inch woofers have a rubbery type surround. Just in the last two years the
surrounds started breaking what looks like tearing apart. I have redone the
two sets with rubber replacements think they are working well. Just
wondered if anyone knew what type of rubber they used. I guess they were
made in late 80s by Onkyo, so that would be about 30 years old. The driver
was on the front cover of a Speaker Builder Magazine with Keith Johnson.

Greg
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  #2  
Old November 30th 20, 07:19 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
Dave Platt[_2_]
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Posts: 12
Default Onkyo Precise Acoustics

>I have some nice speakers made with remnants from Parts Express excess. 8
>inch woofers have a rubbery type surround. Just in the last two years the
>surrounds started breaking what looks like tearing apart. I have redone the
>two sets with rubber replacements think they are working well. Just
>wondered if anyone knew what type of rubber they used. I guess they were
>made in late 80s by Onkyo, so that would be about 30 years old. The driver
>was on the front cover of a Speaker Builder Magazine with Keith Johnson.


From what I've seen, speaker surrounds are most commonly made either
of a closed-cell foam, or of butyl rubber.

They are not necessarily interchangeable. Rubber surrounds are (I
believe) both heavier and stiffer than foam surrounds of the same
dimension. Their weight, and lower compliance can change the acoustic
characteristics of the speaker - quite possibly enough to de-tune the
speaker/enclosure relationship and throw off the speaker's frequency
response. This would be more of an issue with vented/ported/
bass-reflex enclosures than with sealed (acoustic-suspension) systems.

Rubber surrounds seem to have a longer lifespan than foam surrounds,
but they can go bad over time. I had to replace the rubber surrounds
on a pair of 4" drivers in some Optimus AV mini-monitors - I believe
they'd been used outdoors, and sunlight and heat had caused the rubber
surrounds to become stiff and brittle.

  #3  
Old December 1st 20, 12:28 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
gregz
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Posts: 131
Default Onkyo Precise Acoustics

Dave Platt > wrote:
>> I have some nice speakers made with remnants from Parts Express excess. 8
>> inch woofers have a rubbery type surround. Just in the last two years the
>> surrounds started breaking what looks like tearing apart. I have redone the
>> two sets with rubber replacements think they are working well. Just
>> wondered if anyone knew what type of rubber they used. I guess they were
>> made in late 80s by Onkyo, so that would be about 30 years old. The driver
>> was on the front cover of a Speaker Builder Magazine with Keith Johnson.

>
> From what I've seen, speaker surrounds are most commonly made either
> of a closed-cell foam, or of butyl rubber.
>
> They are not necessarily interchangeable. Rubber surrounds are (I
> believe) both heavier and stiffer than foam surrounds of the same
> dimension. Their weight, and lower compliance can change the acoustic
> characteristics of the speaker - quite possibly enough to de-tune the
> speaker/enclosure relationship and throw off the speaker's frequency
> response. This would be more of an issue with vented/ported/
> bass-reflex enclosures than with sealed (acoustic-suspension) systems.
>
> Rubber surrounds seem to have a longer lifespan than foam surrounds,
> but they can go bad over time. I had to replace the rubber surrounds
> on a pair of 4" drivers in some Optimus AV mini-monitors - I believe
> they'd been used outdoors, and sunlight and heat had caused the rubber
> surrounds to become stiff and brittle.


Someone on this group might have known about these drivers. I don't have
many rubber surrounded speakers, but these were a first for me. All of hese
drivers seem to have failed about the same time regardless of use,
including being in original shipping container.

Greg
  #4  
Old December 2nd 20, 04:39 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
~misfit~[_3_]
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Posts: 96
Default Onkyo Precise Acoustics

On 1/12/2020 1:28 pm, gregz wrote:
> Dave Platt > wrote:
>>> I have some nice speakers made with remnants from Parts Express excess. 8
>>> inch woofers have a rubbery type surround. Just in the last two years the
>>> surrounds started breaking what looks like tearing apart. I have redone the
>>> two sets with rubber replacements think they are working well. Just
>>> wondered if anyone knew what type of rubber they used. I guess they were
>>> made in late 80s by Onkyo, so that would be about 30 years old. The driver
>>> was on the front cover of a Speaker Builder Magazine with Keith Johnson.

>>
>> From what I've seen, speaker surrounds are most commonly made either
>> of a closed-cell foam, or of butyl rubber.
>>
>> They are not necessarily interchangeable. Rubber surrounds are (I
>> believe) both heavier and stiffer than foam surrounds of the same
>> dimension. Their weight, and lower compliance can change the acoustic
>> characteristics of the speaker - quite possibly enough to de-tune the
>> speaker/enclosure relationship and throw off the speaker's frequency
>> response. This would be more of an issue with vented/ported/
>> bass-reflex enclosures than with sealed (acoustic-suspension) systems.
>>
>> Rubber surrounds seem to have a longer lifespan than foam surrounds,
>> but they can go bad over time. I had to replace the rubber surrounds
>> on a pair of 4" drivers in some Optimus AV mini-monitors - I believe
>> they'd been used outdoors, and sunlight and heat had caused the rubber
>> surrounds to become stiff and brittle.

>
> Someone on this group might have known about these drivers. I don't have
> many rubber surrounded speakers, but these were a first for me. All of hese
> drivers seem to have failed about the same time regardless of use,
> including being in original shipping container.
>
> Greg
>


Oxygen alone will break the foam surrounds down so it doesn't matter if you use them or not, they
last 20 - 30 years max depending on the thickness of the material. (Unless they're stored in an
oxygen-free atmosphere.)

Rubber surrounds can last 50 years. However if they're stored and not used for a decade or so
they'll go hard and brittle. Also UV light and/or excess heat will cause similar degradation.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
  #5  
Old December 3rd 20, 08:08 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,812
Default Onkyo Precise Acoustics

On 2/12/2020 5:39 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
> On 1/12/2020 1:28 pm, gregz wrote:
>> Dave Platt > wrote:
>>>> I have some nice speakers made with remnants from Parts Express
>>>> excess. 8
>>>> inch woofers have a rubbery type surround. Just in the last two
>>>> years the
>>>> surrounds started breaking what looks like tearing apart. I have
>>>> redone the
>>>> two sets with rubber replacements think they are working well. Just
>>>> wondered if anyone knew what type of rubber they used. I guess they
>>>> were
>>>> made in late 80s by Onkyo, so that would be about 30 years old. The
>>>> driver
>>>> was on the front cover of a Speaker Builder Magazine with Keith
>>>> Johnson.
>>>
>>> *From what I've seen, speaker surrounds are most commonly made either
>>> of a closed-cell foam, or of butyl rubber.
>>>
>>> They are not necessarily interchangeable.* Rubber surrounds are (I
>>> believe) both heavier and stiffer than foam surrounds of the same
>>> dimension.* Their weight, and lower compliance can change the acoustic
>>> characteristics of the speaker - quite possibly enough to de-tune the
>>> speaker/enclosure relationship and throw off the speaker's frequency
>>> response.* This would be more of an issue with vented/ported/
>>> bass-reflex enclosures than with sealed (acoustic-suspension) systems.
>>>
>>> Rubber surrounds seem to have a longer lifespan than foam surrounds,
>>> but they can go bad over time.* I had to replace the rubber surrounds
>>> on a pair of 4" drivers in some Optimus AV mini-monitors - I believe
>>> they'd been used outdoors, and sunlight and heat had caused the rubber
>>> surrounds to become stiff and brittle.

>>
>> Someone on this group might have known about these drivers. I don't have
>> many rubber surrounded speakers, but these were a first for me. All of
>> hese
>> drivers seem to have failed about the same time regardless of use,
>> including being in original shipping container.
>>
>> Greg
>>

>
> Oxygen alone will break the foam surrounds down so it doesn't matter if
> you use them or not, they last 20 - 30 years max depending on the
> thickness of the material. (Unless they're stored in an oxygen-free
> atmosphere.)


I remember when I picked up my KEF R107s of TradeMe when opening and
looking down with a torch, I could see right through the two bass driver
surrounds to the bottom of the cabinet !

> Rubber surrounds can last 50 years. However if they're stored and not
> used for a decade or so they'll go hard and brittle. Also UV light
> and/or excess heat will cause similar degradation.


The butyl on my B110s on LS3-5As after 'just' 40 years-ish.

geoff

  #6  
Old December 4th 20, 03:26 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
Trevor
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Posts: 2,820
Default Onkyo Precise Acoustics

On 4/12/2020 7:08 am, geoff wrote:
> On 2/12/2020 5:39 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Rubber surrounds can last 50 years. However if they're stored and not
>> used for a decade or so they'll go hard and brittle. Also UV light
>> and/or excess heat will cause similar degradation.

>
> The butyl on my B110s on LS3-5As after 'just' 40 years-ish.


My B139's and B110's are still fine after 45 years. Hope they last a bit
longer. :-)



  #7  
Old December 4th 20, 07:45 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
~misfit~[_3_]
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Posts: 96
Default Onkyo Precise Acoustics

On 4/12/2020 4:26 pm, Trevor wrote:
> On 4/12/2020 7:08 am, geoff wrote:
>> On 2/12/2020 5:39 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> Rubber surrounds can last 50 years. However if they're stored and not used for a decade or so
>>> they'll go hard and brittle. Also UV light and/or excess heat will cause similar degradation.

>>
>> The butyl on my B110s on LS3-5As after 'just' 40 years-ish.

>
> My B139's and B110's are still fine after 45 years. Hope they last a bit longer. :-)


The (butyl?) rubber surrounds on my Wharfedale Denton 2s 8" woofers are still supple. However the
(brown) glue has gone brittle and come away from the aluminium chassis. They never sounded great to
start with so I've not got around to fixing them but must do something with them soon, they're
taking up space and gathering dust.

I had some contemporary large 3-way floorstanding Wharfedales (the name of which escapes me right
now) with a 13" woofer. They'd been in storage for a decade when I bought them (deceased estate)
and the surrounds were rock hard. I tried everything I could think of to soften them again
including gentle heat, silicone oil and playing them at moderate volume for hours. None of that
helped so I started 'massaging' them and they started to slightly soften but ultimately shattered.

They were an on odd size so I couldn't get replacement surrounds. It was suggested by a
'professional' driver restorer that I get 15" surrounds and cut them down and join them but I
didn't fancy that.

Dovedale 3s! That's what they were called. I ended up selling the mid drivers and 'purple fried
egg' tweeters and got my money back but was disappointed that I never got to hear the speakers.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
  #8  
Old December 4th 20, 07:53 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,812
Default Onkyo Precise Acoustics

On 4/12/2020 4:26 pm, Trevor wrote:
> On 4/12/2020 7:08 am, geoff wrote:
>> On 2/12/2020 5:39 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> Rubber surrounds can last 50 years. However if they're stored and not
>>> used for a decade or so they'll go hard and brittle. Also UV light
>>> and/or excess heat will cause similar degradation.

>>
>> The butyl on my B110s on LS3-5As after 'just' 40 years-ish.

>
> My B139's and B110's are still fine after 45 years. Hope they last a bit
> longer. :-)



Bailey TLs ?

geoff
  #9  
Old December 5th 20, 06:41 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
Trevor
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Posts: 2,820
Default Onkyo Precise Acoustics

On 4/12/2020 6:53 pm, geoff wrote:
> On 4/12/2020 4:26 pm, Trevor wrote:
>> On 4/12/2020 7:08 am, geoff wrote:
>>> On 2/12/2020 5:39 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>> Rubber surrounds can last 50 years. However if they're stored and
>>>> not used for a decade or so they'll go hard and brittle. Also UV
>>>> light and/or excess heat will cause similar degradation.
>>>
>>> The butyl on my B110s on LS3-5As after 'just' 40 years-ish.

>>
>> My B139's and B110's are still fine after 45 years. Hope they last a
>> bit longer. :-)

>
>
> Bailey TLs ?


No, just a custom cabinet I designed and made for the SK3. Larger than
the Concerto's. Didn't think the Baileys were really worth the effort,
but I know a lot of people did.
Later replaced the tweeters with Dynaudio's and made new Xovers. Have
had lots of other speakers, but they still sound OK compared to many.

 




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