http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

We understand that in the UK, cables cooked in AGA stoves are much more
"tasty" than those cooked in ordinary less expensive stoves - Something
about extended flavour and more delicacy to them - And we understand the
AGA's oven has a wonderful effect upon the cable's "skin" :-)

Any resident UK members, like Mr. Pinkerton, care to comment? But
please, be careful, and don't fall out of your chair and hurt yourself.
I could not handle the guilt of such an injury.

Stuart Stebbings wrote:
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

Stuart Stebbings wrote:
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!


One man's snake oil is another's miracle cure. I just glanced at the link but
the device looks like a fancy Duo-Tech cable enhancer which I wrote an article
about maybe 10 years ago. First, if you accept that there is such a thing as
"break-in" - I hear it but I can't explain it) then cables are one of the
products that seem to need it the most. These products run a constant signal
through the cables to speed up the break-in process from weeks to days. The
Duo-Tech was priced around $120 back then, but hardly seemed worth it unless
you swapped cables all the time, like reviewers do.
Regards,
Mike

Stuart Stebbings wrote:
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

Four your added enjoyment, there is the ubiquitous FAQ:

http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/CCfaq.htm

I prefer my cables lightly sauteed in peanut oil, with just a hint of
taragon and served over a bed of curried cous cous.


"chung" wrote in message
...
Stuart Stebbings wrote:
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

Four your added enjoyment, there is the ubiquitous FAQ:

http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/CCfaq.htm

Here we recommend only the use of *pure virgin Snake Oil*.

This is a very rare form and requires both Kosher certification
and cloistering in a Christian monastery, followed by at least a
year in a Zen monsatery, followed by "harvesting" done by
either Austrailian aboriginal shaman, or in the case it's in the
Americas, an Amazonian shaman. The paper work is required
to be passed along, and finally certified by Tibetian monks who
then provide the final stamp of approval.

Now you know.

Bottling and distribution is a whole 'nother kettle of fish...

:- )

_-_-bear

Stuart Stebbings wrote:

http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm

Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

--
_-_- BEAR Labs
- Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -
http://www.bearlabs.com

On 14 Nov 2003 18:05:55 GMT, Tim Britt
wrote:

We understand that in the UK, cables cooked in AGA stoves are much more
"tasty" than those cooked in ordinary less expensive stoves - Something
about extended flavour and more delicacy to them - And we understand the
AGA's oven has a wonderful effect upon the cable's "skin" :-)

Any resident UK members, like Mr. Pinkerton, care to comment? But
please, be careful, and don't fall out of your chair and hurt yourself.
I could not handle the guilt of such an injury.

Personally, I find AGA stoves to be the very epitomy of the high-end.
They combine elegant looks and massive construction, with inferior
performance!

I use a Smeg A2 range cooker, which handily outperforms an AGA in
every respect, is beautifully made, looks spiffy in a modern stainless
steel kinda way, and costs about a third of the price of an AGA.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote in message ...
On 14 Nov 2003 18:05:55 GMT, Tim Britt
wrote:

We understand that in the UK, cables cooked in AGA stoves are much more
"tasty" than those cooked in ordinary less expensive stoves - Something
about extended flavour and more delicacy to them - And we understand the
AGA's oven has a wonderful effect upon the cable's "skin" :-)

Any resident UK members, like Mr. Pinkerton, care to comment? But
please, be careful, and don't fall out of your chair and hurt yourself.
I could not handle the guilt of such an injury.

Personally, I find AGA stoves to be the very epitomy of the high-end.
They combine elegant looks and massive construction, with inferior
performance!

I use a Smeg A2 range cooker, which handily outperforms an AGA in
every respect, is beautifully made, looks spiffy in a modern stainless
steel kinda way, and costs about a third of the price of an AGA.

Can I assume you did this test blind??? Hope the burns are better.

The FAQ that CHUNG highlighted was a scream. i have never heard such a
load of tosh in my life.

(Mkuller) wrote:



Stuart Stebbings wrote:
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!


One man's snake oil is another's miracle cure. I just glanced at the link
but
the device looks like a fancy Duo-Tech cable enhancer which I wrote an
article
about maybe 10 years ago. First, if you accept that there is such a thing as
"break-in" - I hear it but I can't explain it) then cables are one of the
products that seem to need it the most. These products run a constant signal
through the cables to speed up the break-in process from weeks to days. The
Duo-Tech was priced around $120 back then, but hardly seemed worth it unless
you swapped cables all the time, like reviewers do.
Regards,
Mike

Ah the Cable Enhancer. Crock-ola magnifico snake oil. Let me tell you a tasle
about this product class.

I once inadvertantly walked into a CES exhibit that was peddling this product.
Once inside I quickly started to leave but the exhibitor confronted me with
"you just HAVE to hear THIS."

I responded with "OK but please begin your demonstration with the MOST
definitive material .... that stuff that MOST definitively demonstrates the
difference." He quickly responded that he would do so.

In the meantime 2 other prospective listeners had come into the exhibit. The
"Host" showed us 2 pair of interconnecting cables one of which had been
"broken-in" and one which had not.

Then the listening session began. The Host hooked up one of the pair (cd player
to pre-amp) and then played a 2 minute segment. Then he took a minute, hooked
up the other pair and replayed approximately the same segment, after which he
asked the loaded question "which one sounded better?"

One of the other listeners said he thought the first one sounded better; the
other listener said the second sounded better. I said they sounded the
"same":to me; which they did.

Now believe it or not the Host said "let's try again with MORE REVEALING
program material, even though he promised me that he would use the MOST
definitive material the FIRST time.

So the experiment went to a second trial. In this case the other 2 listeners
switched preference (one thought the 1st cable sounded better and the other
thought the 2nd sounded "better"). They sounded identical to me.

SO.....there was a 3rd trial, with presumably even better than the "best"
program. In this case both the other listeners agred they "thought" the 2nd
alternative was "better." To me they both sounded identical.

With getting the "right" answer the experiment was finished. In his column in a
nationally distributed high-end magazine one of the "other" listeners, who
should have known better, later expressed amazement that the cable-enhancer
could actually "change" the sound of cables.

In reality we should examine the conditions. First, there were no real
experimental controls; even though the wires weren't specifically identified
prior to the first trial, it was obvious which was which after the subjects
"agreed" on the right answer. 2nd, when the "best" program material didn't
deliver the 'right' answer the experiment was continued until the "correct"
answer was reached and then the experiment was terminated.
And "wrong" answers (they sound the same) were excluded.

If one were to statistically examine the data (1-number one; 1-number 2, 2
no-contest and 2 number 2) we come to a statistically null result.

The Columnist should have known this yet he was somehow compelled to report
this distorted view of what happened as showing that the cable-break-in device
was able to 'change' the sound of a cable.

This example demonstrates to me how even reasonably professional people can
allow simple mistakes in reasoning to influence opinion even when the data
contradicts it.

Personally, I would avoid ANY product that is supposed to need a "break
in". If a speaker truly needs to be broken in (unlikely), the
manufacturer should do this before shipping.


-MIKE

(---MIKE---) wrote:


Personally, I would avoid ANY product that is supposed to need a "break
in". If a speaker truly needs to be broken in (unlikely), the
manufacturer should do this before shipping.

Absolutley agreed. I recently reviewed a speaker product where the manufacturer
siad that 100 hours of break-in was necessary for the product to sound its
best.

I then called a local retailer and asked what the return period was. I was
told a week (7 calendar days.) This meant in order to break-in this product I
would have had to listen to this product for 14 hours a day just to meet the
required break-in period to find out how it "really" sounds.

Snake-oil city.

At a recent SMWTMS (audio club) meeting Paul Barton of PSB Speakers was the
featured speaker. He demonstarted his new T8 speaker system during his
presentation. Afterwards I asked him "How long do I have to break-in these
speakers before they achieve maximal sound quality?"

Hsi response was that if they had been sitting in a van overnight at 32 degree
temperature he would insist that you allow enough time for them to reach
in-door room temperature.

I agree. IMHO, the so-called "break in" period is just marketing mumbo
jumbo who's primary agenda is to get the listener used to the sound of
the component during the so-called break in period, and less likely to
return the product to the retailer.

I suspect the rationale is the more you listen to it, the more "natural"
sounding it becomes because you don't have anything to reference it to.

The temperature thing mentioned by Paul Barton below is the most
sensible explanation I've read in a long time. And most of us know to
not immediately boot up a laptop that been in a freezing car for hours
until the laptop reaches room temperature. Similar logic here.

Call me cynical, but I can't wait for the introduction of the first
powdered Viagra product designed to be "sprinkled" on your interconnects
and cables to achieve a "higher" level of listening satisfaction :-)

Hey, wait. Maybe I need to patent this idea before someone steals it
from me!

Nousaine wrote:

Absolutley agreed. I recently reviewed a speaker product where the manufacturer
siad that 100 hours of break-in was necessary for the product to sound its
best.

I then called a local retailer and asked what the return period was. I was
told a week (7 calendar days.) This meant in order to break-in this product I
would have had to listen to this product for 14 hours a day just to meet the
required break-in period to find out how it "really" sounds.

Snake-oil city.

At a recent SMWTMS (audio club) meeting Paul Barton of PSB Speakers was the
featured speaker. He demonstarted his new T8 speaker system during his
presentation. Afterwards I asked him "How long do I have to break-in these
speakers before they achieve maximal sound quality?"

Hsi response was that if they had been sitting in a van overnight at 32 degree
temperature he would insist that you allow enough time for them to reach
in-door room temperature.

---MIKE--- wrote:
Personally, I would avoid ANY product that is supposed to need a "break
in". If a speaker truly needs to be broken in (unlikely), the
manufacturer should do this before shipping.


Even shoes?

;



--

-S.

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
-- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director

"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
...
---MIKE--- wrote:
Personally, I would avoid ANY product that is supposed to need a "break
in". If a speaker truly needs to be broken in (unlikely), the
manufacturer should do this before shipping.


Even shoes?

;


Shoes don't break in, it is just the feet that gets used to the pain...



--

-S.

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
-- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director

(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message ...
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

Is this done before or after you freeze them?

http://www.cryotweaks.com/Process.shtml

Regards,
Tip Johnson

Tim Britt wrote in message news:SxNub.50084$Dw6.259224@attbi_s02...
Call me cynical, but I can't wait for the introduction of the first
powdered Viagra product designed to be "sprinkled" on your interconnects
and cables to achieve a "higher" level of listening satisfaction :-)

Hey, wait. Maybe I need to patent this idea before someone steals it
from me!



Too late: http://www.nordost.com/products/accessories.html

Someone may have mentioned this here, so forgive me.
I have little experience with cable break-in, but I have a suspicion that it
is more a case of the listener just warming up to the product. One statement
that I have read seems to put things into perspective, for me. "If cables
change their "sound" with use, why is it always for the better?" Wouldn't it
make sense that, if there is a significant sonic difference after a cable is
"broken-in" there would be as many cases where the reviewer liked the before
rather than the after?

ks

"Stuart Stebbings" wrote in message
...
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

Or.... why not burn them in BEFORE shipping them out? That way, you get
the best performance right out of the box!

kevins wrote:
Someone may have mentioned this here, so forgive me.
I have little experience with cable break-in, but I have a suspicion that it
is more a case of the listener just warming up to the product. One statement
that I have read seems to put things into perspective, for me. "If cables
change their "sound" with use, why is it always for the better?" Wouldn't it
make sense that, if there is a significant sonic difference after a cable is
"broken-in" there would be as many cases where the reviewer liked the before
rather than the after?

In article ,
(---MIKE---) wrote:
Personally, I would avoid ANY product that is supposed to need a "break
in". If a speaker truly needs to be broken in (unlikely), the
manufacturer should do this before shipping.
-MIKE

Perhaps- though that certainly adds labor to the product.

I would have thought speakers would be BY FAR the most likely
suspects for break-in, because they are physical vibrating mechanisms
with different sorts of suspension which fatigues with use and settles
into a more compliant state. Doubting this seems odd.

Chris Johnson

In article ,
(---MIKE---) wrote:
Personally, I would avoid ANY product that is supposed to need a "break
in". If a speaker truly needs to be broken in (unlikely), the
manufacturer should do this before shipping.
-MIKE

Perhaps- though that certainly adds labor to the product.

I would have thought speakers would be BY FAR the most likely
suspects for break-in, because they are physical vibrating mechanisms
with different sorts of suspension which fatigues with use and settles
into a more compliant state. Doubting this seems odd.

Chris Johnson

Speaker break-in is another urban legend. I've conducted several experiments on
the subject.

What happens is that if you subject a raw driver to a lengthy "break-in" (I've
used 24, 48 and 150 hours) period and then measure T/S parameters while the
voice coil is still hot you'll find that the free air resonance (Fs) will
maasure 5-10% lower and the Vas (compliance) will have increased by a like
amount.

Modelling that driver with either a set of parameters straight out of the
shippimg carton or post-break in and you'll come to the same enclosure with
either set because those parameter differences are offsetting.

Also you'll find that frequency response measurements with either a brand-new
driver or a broken-in one will be within the tolerance you get between two
samples of that driver in either state.

NOW re-measure the broken-in driver after a few hours rest and you'll find that
the parameters will have returned to their original numbers when it was right
out of the carton.

So it might be said that speakers can "warm-up" but sonically it doesn't matter
ifd they do. And, more importantly IF break-in were to be important you' have
to repeat the process very time the speaker sat unused overnight.

"Nousaine" wrote in message
news:Oubwb.284579$HS4.2537382@attbi_s01...
In article ,
(---MIKE---) wrote:
Personally, I would avoid ANY product that is supposed to need a "break
in". If a speaker truly needs to be broken in (unlikely), the
manufacturer should do this before shipping.
-MIKE

Perhaps- though that certainly adds labor to the product.

I would have thought speakers would be BY FAR the most likely
suspects for break-in, because they are physical vibrating mechanisms
with different sorts of suspension which fatigues with use and settles
into a more compliant state. Doubting this seems odd.

Chris Johnson

Speaker break-in is another urban legend. I've conducted several
experiments on
the subject.

What happens is that if you subject a raw driver to a lengthy "break-in"
(I've
used 24, 48 and 150 hours) period and then measure T/S parameters while
the
voice coil is still hot you'll find that the free air resonance (Fs) will
maasure 5-10% lower and the Vas (compliance) will have increased by a like
amount.

Modelling that driver with either a set of parameters straight out of the
shippimg carton or post-break in and you'll come to the same enclosure
with
either set because those parameter differences are offsetting.

Also you'll find that frequency response measurements with either a
brand-new
driver or a broken-in one will be within the tolerance you get between two
samples of that driver in either state.

NOW re-measure the broken-in driver after a few hours rest and you'll find
that
the parameters will have returned to their original numbers when it was
right
out of the carton.

So it might be said that speakers can "warm-up" but sonically it doesn't
matter
ifd they do. And, more importantly IF break-in were to be important you'
have
to repeat the process very time the speaker sat unused overnight.


Even better, you'd have to repeat the process after every soft passage in
your favorite symphony!

In article Oubwb.284579$HS4.2537382@attbi_s01,
(Nousaine) wrote:
Speaker break-in is another urban legend. I've conducted several experiments
on the subject.

What happens is that if you subject a raw driver to a lengthy "break-in"
(I've
used 24, 48 and 150 hours) period and then measure T/S parameters while the
voice coil is still hot you'll find that the free air resonance (Fs) will
maasure 5-10% lower and the Vas (compliance) will have increased by a like
amount.

I am... not sure you're measuring the right thing. Even then, that's
a hell of a big change for just stressing the driver. 10% alteration in
a very basic parameter? I was thinking more of the changes in tonality
you get from alterations on an acoustic guitar's soundboard. For a cone
speaker driver, the cone is the 'soundboard', and any sound produced
from this driver has to be transmitted through this cone. That's why,
for instance, polypropylene drivers don't sound exactly the same as
paper cone drivers and aluminum cone drivers don't sound like either.

...or do you feel that all those sound the same too?


Chris Johnson

"Nousaine" wrote in message
news:Oubwb.284579$HS4.2537382@attbi_s01...
Speaker break-in is another urban legend. I've conducted
several experiments on
the subject.

For electrodynamic drivers you're absolutely correct.

There is a decrease in surround stiffness during use. However,
it measurably occurs over a period of seconds and reverses once
the speaker sits idle for a few minutes. Further, the driver is
usually only a minor contributor to stiffness. In many designs
the cabinet is by far the dominant source of stiffness and
changes in the driver stiffness has at most a minor effect on
system response. Finally, the change in driver stiffness is less
than that due to ambient temperature changes or even lot to lot
variations between drivers.

The only speaker type that requires break-in is electrostatics
with low conductivity coatings on the membrane. In those
specific cases it may take some time for the polarization voltage
to stabilize.

The common misconception of speaker burn-in is generally listener
burn-in. Over time the listener becomes accustomed to the sound
of a particular speaker.

"Rusty Boudreaux"
wrote:

Nousaine" wrote in message
news:Oubwb.284579$HS4.2537382@attbi_s01...
Speaker break-in is another urban legend. I've conducted
several experiments on
the subject.

For electrodynamic drivers you're absolutely correct.

There is a decrease in surround stiffness during use. However,
it measurably occurs over a period of seconds and reverses once
the speaker sits idle for a few minutes.

However it takes longer for the voice coil to cool down. The suspension
compliance is easy to test for yourself. Take a compliant material such as a
rubber band. Stretch it as far as it will go and you'll often find that it's a
little longer than it was when fresh. Let it sit overnight and you'll find that
it creeps back to original length.

Further, the driver is
usually only a minor contributor to stiffness. In many designs
the cabinet is by far the dominant source of stiffness and
changes in the driver stiffness has at most a minor effect on
system response. Finally, the change in driver stiffness is less
than that due to ambient temperature changes or even lot to lot
variations between drivers.

The only speaker type that requires break-in is electrostatics
with low conductivity coatings on the membrane. In those
specific cases it may take some time for the polarization voltage
to stabilize.

Are you talking burn-in or warm-up?


The common misconception of speaker burn-in is generally listener
burn-in. Over time the listener becomes accustomed to the sound
of a particular speaker.

Yup; that's the deal. Listener adaptation is the 'burn-in' mechanism.

Chris Johnson wrote:

In article Oubwb.284579$HS4.2537382@attbi_s01,
(Nousaine) wrote:
Speaker break-in is another urban legend. I've conducted several
experiments
on the subject.

What happens is that if you subject a raw driver to a lengthy "break-in"
(I've
used 24, 48 and 150 hours) period and then measure T/S parameters while the
voice coil is still hot you'll find that the free air resonance (Fs) will
maasure 5-10% lower and the Vas (compliance) will have increased by a like
amount.

I am... not sure you're measuring the right thing.

What would you measure?

Even then, that's
a hell of a big change for just stressing the driver. 10% alteration in
a very basic parameter?

After 24,48 qnd 150 hours of continuous operation? But don't forget that those
parameter measurements completely reverse after the driver cools back down. And
that the resultant frequency response doesn't change either way.

I was thinking more of the changes in tonality
you get from alterations on an acoustic guitar's soundboard. For a cone
speaker driver, the cone is the 'soundboard', and any sound produced
from this driver has to be transmitted through this cone.

Although the sound travels up and down the cone material, the sound into the
room is radiated from the cone surface.

That's why,
for instance, polypropylene drivers don't sound exactly the same as
paper cone drivers and aluminum cone drivers don't sound like either.

As long as the cone material is stiff enough and has enough internal damping
there is no "material" sound. This is another of those urban legends; it is
true that different materials have different material characteristics which
"may" affect the radiated sound it is not true that there is a characteristic
material sound. There are examples of great sounding speakers made of all those
materials of which the response contains no "material" sound.


...or do you feel that all those sound the same too?


Chris Johnson

Only the better ones.

"Nousaine" wrote in message
...
The only speaker type that requires break-in is electrostatics
with low conductivity coatings on the membrane. In those
specific cases it may take some time for the polarization
voltage
to stabilize.

Are you talking burn-in or warm-up?

Sorry, poor wording on my part. Definitely warm-up.

(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message
...
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

And some more

http://www.britishaudio.co.uk/gryphon.htm
This little devil...pun intended, well what can I say!

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-club.mc...om/densen.html

Didnt this one originally get marketed as a way of demagnetising
CD's??? Now it demagnetises all the electronics in the system.
Even those pesky non metal ones!!!!

I suggest you sit down before looking at these as I dont want you all
falling over with mirth!

(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message ...
(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message
...
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

And some more

http://www.britishaudio.co.uk/gryphon.htm
This little devil...pun intended, well what can I say!

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-club.mc...om/densen.html

Didnt this one originally get marketed as a way of demagnetising
CD's??? Now it demagnetises all the electronics in the system.
Even those pesky non metal ones!!!!

I suggest you sit down before looking at these as I dont want you all
falling over with mirth!

Have any of you very witty gentlemen actually tried using these
products? I use the Densen CD regularly and it returns "sparkle" to
the system. BTW, in the early 80's when we were first dicovering the
effects of different cable/commponent types I was a senior technical
officer for a major Japanese high end company so I do have some
experience of researching these matters.

Also, FYI the main system I am using at this time is:- Koetsu
Rosewood sig in an SME IV on a Michell Orbe SE mounted on a SoundStage
Developments Major iso plinth this, the AudioNote AN-CD2 and my Nak
ST7E tuner run into an Art Audio VPS pre and then into an Art Audio
Quintet power using EL 34's in triode mode which in turn feed Tannoy
12" Monitor Golds in Lockwood Academy cases with Tannoy ST 200 super
tweeters. This is a very revealing system and the difference is not
subtle.

My wife, who is by no means an Audiophile, came into the living room
just after I did the last demag and instantly asked what I had changed
on the system. I would add that apart from the interconnect from pre
to power which is an Art Audio silver all other cables are Van den Hul
Hybrids and all were treated on a form of "cable cooker" I made
myself.

regards

Paul S

Paul Stewart wrote:

* * *
Didnt this one originally get marketed as a way of demagnetising
CD's??? Now it demagnetises all the electronics in the system.
Even those pesky non metal ones!!!!

I suggest you sit down before looking at these as I dont want you all
falling over with mirth!


Have any of you very witty gentlemen actually tried using these
products? I use the Densen CD regularly and it returns "sparkle" to
the system.

I like Windex for that. Be sure to use an old diaper, so as not to
scratch the dust cover or faceplates.

BTW, in the early 80's when we were first dicovering the
effects of different cable/commponent types I was a senior technical
officer for a major Japanese high end company so I do have some
experience of [market]ing these matters.

* * *

My wife, who is by no means an Audiophile, came into the living room
just after I did the last demag and instantly asked what I had changed
on the system. I would add that apart from the interconnect from pre
to power which is an Art Audio silver all other cables are Van den Hul
Hybrids and all were treated on a form of "cable cooker" I made
myself.

She meant, not kindly, to ask what, for a "cable cooker," you had taken
from her kitchen. "And don't touch my green Sharpies again!"

regards

Paul S

(Paul Stewart) wrote:

...snip to content......

My wife, who is by no means an Audiophile, came into the living room
just after I did the last demag and instantly asked what I had changed
on the system. I would add that apart from the interconnect from pre
to power which is an Art Audio silver all other cables are Van den Hul
Hybrids and all were treated on a form of "cable cooker" I made
myself.

regards

Paul S

I call these cases the "Unsolicited Testimonial." They are not evidence that
any sonic factor was involved. First, women (at least many of them) are humans
too and have a strong tendency to report "differences" when give 2 identical
sound stimuli. Second, who's to know that wifes and girlfriends haven't
'learned' that this kind of offhand comment isn't helpful for managing their
relationships.

Or maybe they'ree just busting our balls. I do know I've seen guys draw all
kinds of weird speculations and wild goose chases about "what" had changed
(when nothing had) when getting one of these relationsip-trolls

Here's my story about this. In the Sunshine Trials, Zip's wifer said during his
first cable-swap amp comparison trial from a kitchen adjacent.to the listening
room "The difference is plainly obvious to me."

Some time later when we were finishing up she asked "Of course, the Pass was
driving the system during the first trial, right?" I had to check the score
sheet because even I didn't know what was what on any given trial. It turned
out she was dead-wrong. The comparison piece had been powering the Dunlavy
speakers.

With that background she was given a single subject 10 trial ABX test the
following day and, just like her husband, was unable to reliably identify the
amps.

(Paul Stewart) wrote in message ...
(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message ...
Didnt this one originally get marketed as a way of demagnetising
CD's??? Now it demagnetises all the electronics in the system.
Even those pesky non metal ones!!!!

I suggest you sit down before looking at these as I dont want you all
falling over with mirth!

Have any of you very witty gentlemen actually tried using these
products?

Yes. A number of us have.

I use the Densen CD regularly and it returns "sparkle" to
the system. BTW, in the early 80's when we were first dicovering the
effects of different cable/commponent types I was a senior technical
officer for a major Japanese high end company so I do have some
experience of researching these matters.

I find it interesting that the manufacturers of the "products"
and their ardent supporters simply choose to completely IGNORE
the incovenient fact that there is NOTHING in a CD to demagnetize.

My wife, who is by no means an Audiophile, came into the living room
just after I did the last demag and instantly asked what I had changed
on the system.

So what? As it has been shown and admitted that even GROSS effects
like simple level memory is demonstrably unreliable, why does this
pure piece of unsupported anecdote prove anything? How many times
does someone hear something changed when nothing, in fact, has?

The curious and skeptical minds of a number of witty gentlemen
would like to know.

On 29 Nov 2003 16:22:56 GMT, (Paul Stewart) wrote:

(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message ...
(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message
...
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

And some more

http://www.britishaudio.co.uk/gryphon.htm
This little devil...pun intended, well what can I say!

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-club.mc...om/densen.html

Didnt this one originally get marketed as a way of demagnetising
CD's??? Now it demagnetises all the electronics in the system.
Even those pesky non metal ones!!!!

I suggest you sit down before looking at these as I dont want you all
falling over with mirth!

Have any of you very witty gentlemen actually tried using these
products?

Green pens, certainly, with no audible effect. Lots of cable types
also, with the same result. The mere idea of the Densen CD is of
course simply hilarious!

I use the Densen CD regularly and it returns "sparkle" to
the system.

Yeah, right.................

How do you test this?

BTW, in the early 80's when we were first dicovering the
effects of different cable/commponent types I was a senior technical
officer for a major Japanese high end company so I do have some
experience of researching these matters.

So, what were the results of these researches into cable differences?

Also, FYI the main system I am using at this time is:- Koetsu
Rosewood sig in an SME IV on a Michell Orbe SE mounted on a SoundStage
Developments Major iso plinth this, the AudioNote AN-CD2 and my Nak
ST7E tuner run into an Art Audio VPS pre and then into an Art Audio
Quintet power using EL 34's in triode mode which in turn feed Tannoy
12" Monitor Golds in Lockwood Academy cases with Tannoy ST 200 super
tweeters. This is a very revealing system and the difference is not
subtle.

Interesting. If you were a 'senior technical officer', then why are
you using a CD player which is missing a vital component?

BTW, have you tried a blind comparison to hear this 'not subtle'
difference, or is it only apparent when you *know* what is connected?

My wife, who is by no means an Audiophile, came into the living room
just after I did the last demag and instantly asked what I had changed
on the system.

Oh dear, not that old chestnut again!

I would add that apart from the interconnect from pre
to power which is an Art Audio silver all other cables are Van den Hul
Hybrids and all were treated on a form of "cable cooker" I made
myself.

I'm sure you feel that this warmed up the sound no end..............
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewart,

All this talk about snake oil fixes is boring (and making me hungary).

I want to hear more about your SMEG cooking stove - Whatever you can
tell us about it would be much more interesting than imaginary audio
fixes.

Over on our side of the pond, the AGA is marketed at the "cat's meow"
as they call it in the states, or the mother of all stoves. Our local
dealer tells us nothing is better, but since there is a basement under
our kitchen, we are advised to call in structural engineers to see if
the load of AGA can be safe supported. I suppose we'll have to use
special Mpingo wood column supports and special silver-braided litz
wire for the small amount of electric power required by the AGA?

When I looked up the home page for Smeg, seems like your Smeg 2.5 can
run circles around anything AGA has to offer. I emailed Smeg to see if
they had a U.S. distributor but never received an answer.

Do you happen to know if they sell on our side of the pond?

Maybe they could be the next Quad, etc.?

Thanks.

Tim

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 29 Nov 2003 16:22:56 GMT, (Paul Stewart) wrote:
(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message
...

(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message
...

http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

And some more

http://www.britishaudio.co.uk/gryphon.htm
This little devil...pun intended, well what can I say!

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-club.mc...om/densen.html

Didnt this one originally get marketed as a way of demagnetising
CD's??? Now it demagnetises all the electronics in the system.
Even those pesky non metal ones!!!!

I suggest you sit down before looking at these as I dont want you all
falling over with mirth!

Have any of you very witty gentlemen actually tried using these
products?
Green pens, certainly, with no audible effect. Lots of cable types
also, with the same result. The mere idea of the Densen CD is of
course simply hilarious!
I use the Densen CD regularly and it returns "sparkle" to
the system.
Yeah, right.................
How do you test this?
BTW, in the early 80's when we were first dicovering the
effects of different cable/commponent types I was a senior technical
officer for a major Japanese high end company so I do have some
experience of researching these matters.
So, what were the results of these researches into cable differences?
Also, FYI the main system I am using at this time is:- Koetsu
Rosewood sig in an SME IV on a Michell Orbe SE mounted on a SoundStage
Developments Major iso plinth this, the AudioNote AN-CD2 and my Nak
ST7E tuner run into an Art Audio VPS pre and then into an Art Audio
Quintet power using EL 34's in triode mode which in turn feed Tannoy
12" Monitor Golds in Lockwood Academy cases with Tannoy ST 200 super
tweeters. This is a very revealing system and the difference is not
subtle.
Interesting. If you were a 'senior technical officer', then why are
you using a CD player which is missing a vital component?
BTW, have you tried a blind comparison to hear this 'not subtle'
difference, or is it only apparent when you *know* what is connected?
My wife, who is by no means an Audiophile, came into the living room
just after I did the last demag and instantly asked what I had changed
on the system.
Oh dear, not that old chestnut again!
I would add that apart from the interconnect from pre
to power which is an Art Audio silver all other cables are Van den Hul
Hybrids and all were treated on a form of "cable cooker" I made
myself.
I'm sure you feel that this warmed up the sound no end..............

On 2 Dec 2003 18:49:28 GMT, Tim Britt
wrote:

Stewart,

All this talk about snake oil fixes is boring (and making me hungary).

Time for some goulash, perhaps? :-)

I want to hear more about your SMEG cooking stove - Whatever you can
tell us about it would be much more interesting than imaginary audio
fixes.

They come in various flavours, but our classic Opera A2 is Italian,
the range/top/hob (depending what country you're from!) has six gas
burners, including two wok burners, there are two electric ovens, both
with grills, one 600 mm wide and one 300 mm wide with a rotisserie.
The whole thing is highly controllable and is the best domestic cooker
I know of - otherwise we'd have something else!

Over on our side of the pond, the AGA is marketed at the "cat's meow"
as they call it in the states, or the mother of all stoves.

More like the grandmother..................

Our local
dealer tells us nothing is better, but since there is a basement under
our kitchen, we are advised to call in structural engineers to see if
the load of AGA can be safe supported.

True, there's a lot of ccast iron in one of those relics!

I suppose we'll have to use
special Mpingo wood column supports and special silver-braided litz
wire for the small amount of electric power required by the AGA?

Ah no, for the best effect you must only use the solid fuel version,
fed with finest hickory.

When I looked up the home page for Smeg, seems like your Smeg 2.5 can
run circles around anything AGA has to offer.

Makes sense, although I note that even AGA have had to admit that they
are lagging, as they now do a cooker with a conventional multi-burner
hob - even though it still has those tiny AGA trademark ovens. You
won't get a decent Thanksgiving turkey into an AGA!

I emailed Smeg to see if
they had a U.S. distributor but never received an answer.

Do you happen to know if they sell on our side of the pond?

Sorry, I have no idea. I do note however that even the mighty Google
can't find anything for Smeg in the US of A.

Maybe they could be the next Quad, etc.?

Well, more like the next Westinghouse! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

(Paul Stewart) wrote in message ...
(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message ...
(Stuart Stebbings) wrote in message
...
http://www.omigaaudio.co.uk/Services.htm


Take a look at this. I almost fell off my chair when I saw this!!

And some more

http://www.britishaudio.co.uk/gryphon.htm
This little devil...pun intended, well what can I say!

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-club.mc...om/densen.html

Didnt this one originally get marketed as a way of demagnetising
CD's??? Now it demagnetises all the electronics in the system.
Even those pesky non metal ones!!!!

I suggest you sit down before looking at these as I dont want you all
falling over with mirth!

Have any of you very witty gentlemen actually tried using these
products? I use the Densen CD regularly and it returns "sparkle" to
the system. BTW, in the early 80's when we were first dicovering the
effects of different cable/commponent types I was a senior technical
officer for a major Japanese high end company so I do have some
experience of researching these matters.

Also, FYI the main system I am using at this time is:- Koetsu
Rosewood sig in an SME IV on a Michell Orbe SE mounted on a SoundStage
Developments Major iso plinth this, the AudioNote AN-CD2 and my Nak
ST7E tuner run into an Art Audio VPS pre and then into an Art Audio
Quintet power using EL 34's in triode mode which in turn feed Tannoy
12" Monitor Golds in Lockwood Academy cases with Tannoy ST 200 super
tweeters. This is a very revealing system and the difference is not
subtle.

My wife, who is by no means an Audiophile, came into the living room
just after I did the last demag and instantly asked what I had changed
on the system. I would add that apart from the interconnect from pre
to power which is an Art Audio silver all other cables are Van den Hul
Hybrids and all were treated on a form of "cable cooker" I made
myself.

regards

Paul S

If I suggested you put self raising flour in your petrol tank to
improve the performance of your car you would rightly tell me to get
lost, as it was totally against the overall concepts of the
internal combustion engine... Or words to that effect!. :-)

That is the same for the silly products we are talking about here.

If you want to trade credentials, then I work for the No1 IT comapny
in the world who have more patents that the next 6 largest patenet
registering comapnies put together.
I have worked on cables networks etc etc for years, i have been in the
involved in new technologies at the development stages like 64 bit
PowerPC and HSL "high speed link" system bus extention technology to
name but a couple.
Compared to this audio is child play.
Trading credentials is of no benefit to this subject

Any product that offers to make some improvement needs to be checked
against some basic facts. see the self raising flour analogy.

Demagnetising non metallic components is just silly. Green pens that
reduce read errors on discs by reducing the scattered light from the
laser, not only is it silly and shows a total understanding of CD
technology. BUT! it was actualy a scam to show the Audio
tweat-a-holics that you could be taken for a ride.
GUESS WHAT??? YOU HAVE.


If the human race showed the same disregard for basic scientific
princle that the vast majority of the audio community, we would still
be in the "dark ages"

The principle behind the DeMagic CD is that the sound it makes is so
irritating that anything will sound better afterwards...

Stuart Stebbings wrote:
Green pens that
|| reduce read errors on discs by reducing the scattered light from the
|| laser, not only is it silly and shows a total understanding of CD
|| technology. BUT! it was actualy a scam to show the Audio
|| tweat-a-holics that you could be taken for a ride.
|| GUESS WHAT??? YOU HAVE.

In fact there is this new copy protection which only can be overcome if you
cover some "grooves" on the circumference with a (better removable) feltpen.
Has anybody already encountered this?

I've also seen some japanese wood blocks for an exorbitant price which are
placed under turntables and the advertisement reads nearly identical to
those cables and mains connectors.
Certainly you believe into them and really hear the improvement, otherwise
you have to admit being utterly stupid to have wasted 1000 bucks for some
50cent worth of useless wood.
So whoever has bought those expensive mains- or loudspeaker cables will
never admit they have no effect, the investment was simply too high. You can
propose any rational test or measurements, it is only understandable for
those who never bought the useless s..t in the first place.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy
electronic hardware designer

A few years ago I bought Kimber PBJ interconnects and Canare digital
cables. I can NOT hear any improvement. I wasted money that could have
been better spent on more CDs.

-MIKE

(---MIKE---) wrote:

A few years ago I bought Kimber PBJ interconnects and Canare digital
cables. I can NOT hear any improvement. I wasted money that could have
been better spent on more CDs.

-MIKE

My hat's tipped to you for not being afraid to say you heard no difference.
That's often a difficult thing for people to imagine..and to say so out loud.

I'm quite amazed at Press Conferences where, after the 'tellin' (apologies to
Englebert) and the demonstration starts there is often a deafening silence;
whereupon the Host plays another selection with "better" material. Eventually
someone says he heard "X" and another says "Y" and another round ensues
eventually ending with a few people and the Host negotiating differences
("Maybe you didn't hear the absence of midrange fussiness but surely you
heard..."). After a few of these everybody leaves but FEW EVER ('ceptin'
present company; but even then I usually keep my mouth shut) say they "heard NO
difference."

They'll say nothing. But it's very rare to hear "no difference." This is
surprising given that people are internally wired to report differences when
given 2 identical sound clips; and I'm amazed at how reluctant people are to
say 'no difference' out loud in a audio-social environment.

It's one interesting social aspect of the listening environment. When you see
people "negotiating" differences it's often a sign that no significant audible
differences were present.

A few years ago I bought Kimber PBJ interconnects and Canare digital
cables. I can NOT hear any improvement. I wasted money that could have
been better spent on more CDs.

-MIKE
BRBR


Why didn't you just return them for a refund?