On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:06:02 -0500, George M. Middius cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote:



dave weil said:

It just makes it easier for me not to have to do the inevitable
responding back and forth to your bull**** that Jenn is having to go
through right now.

One day, Jenn may well look back in fondness at her indoctrination into
the morass of "the debating trade".

Won't that be one night, when she wakes out of a dead sleep shaking
and sweating?

Arny Krueger shows us what a lying hypocrite he is:

It's a readily demonstrable fact that the subjectivists on RAO, particularly
2 or three of them are the source sof the overwhelming majority of personal
attacks around here. They don't discuss issues, they don't deal with the
message, they just attack the messenger, whether he's actually delivering a
message at the time or not.

It's readily demonstrable fact that the objectivists on RAO,
particularly YOU, when responding to my posts regarding the tweaks I
put up for people's benefit, did not "discuss the issues", you and your
objectivist cohorts didn't "deal with the message", whether I was
actually delivering a message at the time or not. You simply attacked
me; ridicule, scorn, derision, mockery, you name it, I received it.

In other words, you're a lying hypocrite, Krueger. But who here didn't
know that about you already?

From: paul packer
Date: Tues, Mar 21 2006 10:15 pm
Email: (paul packer)

Slough? Is that the Slough of Despond you're referring to, Arnie?

It's the murky swamplike area also known as his 'mind.'

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net wrote in message

dave weil said:

It just makes it easier for me not to have to do the
inevitable responding back and forth to your bull****
that Jenn is having to go through right now.

One day, Jenn may well look back in fondness at her
indoctrination into the morass of "the debating trade".

She seems to have figured out "The Attack Thread" complete with my name
misspelled.

You've taught her well, George.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net wrote in message

Jenn said:

Arnii doesn't fit in on RAO, a sociable forum.

A "sociable forum* that is widely known as the most
loathsome of all Usenet audio groups.

It's usually a lot better during Dances-with-Bears
season....

Not to be contrary, but that seems a bit of a reach;
there is a lot of really nasty stuff out there.

Name a Usenet audio group as loathsome as RAO.
Not any Usenet group, not a music group - an audio
group.

I see... well, I can believe that.

Notably, RAH-E improved markedly after they ejected Mr.
****.

No, Harry still posts there.

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in
message

In article
,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

Sue me for telling the truth.

No, you get sued for lying.

It's a readily demonstrable fact that the
subjectivists on RAO, particularly 2 or three of
them are the source sof the overwhelming majority
of personal attacks around here. They don't
discuss issues, they don't deal with the
message, they just attack the messenger, whether
he's actually delivering a message at the time
or not.

Aren't those "subjectivists" turning on the new
tweaker?

Red herring argument. Their response to the new
tweaker is itself abusive.

It eliminates the audio message as the motivation.

Yet another straw man argument.

You've used this inaccurately so often as to make it
meaningless. If so-called "Subs" attack you or tweaks
alike, this shows there's something other than audio
philosophy involved.

Doooh!

Are you saying that you are attacked for a reason
other than your audio views?

Doooh!

Are you trying to do a Homer? If so, it's spelled, d'oh.

At this point the objections of the Subs
around here are largely personal. I could switch
polarities as it were (note that I claim that I'm a
Sub, which a Sub has, true to form recently lied
about) and I would expect not a lot to change.
There's something about being a plain old Sub that
tends to make people abusive.

What is it about being a "Sub" that makes you abusive?

Abusive?

How can you use that word to describe me, given all the
other crap that happens around here?

Because you're nasty and insulting, qualities sometimes
associated with being abusive. Of course, it's your
word, so I should really ask what you mean by it.

That's abuse all by itself!

Don't be modest: you give pretty good yourself.

Or do you mean you're abused because you're a "Sub"?

I've already said it once today, where were you,
Stephen.

My name is abused here simply because I lived in times
past.

Pure as the driven snow, eh?

Not after 10 years of receiving as much abuse as I have.

Sorry. You are pretty much as I first found you on this
group: looking for an argument. If anything, you're less
manic now. Remember how you used type so carelessly after
a few rounds of 'debating'?

You've established quite a track record.

Mostly based on accusations by the usual list of
suspects who were abusing me many times more and far
more harshly than what I returned.

That's odd, as you've had a similar reception in other
places. How do you explain the commonality?

It's a wonder anyone respects you at all
despite your demonstrable knowledge and ability to
explain stuff you show on other forums.

Only for people who are easily impressed by lies and
deceptions from people who give far more and far worse
than what they get.

I think you have a word for that kind of empty statement:
is it 'posturing'?


No, its called 'insight".

"paul packer" wrote in message

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:16:06 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

(note that I claim that I'm a Sub

Is that sub-human,. Arnie? Honestly I don't think you're
anywhere near that bad. :-)

In a moment of mental lapsedness, I couldn't figure out whether Sackman,
Weil, or Packer would be stupid enough to bite on this set up.

On 22 Mar 2006 00:45:57 -0800, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote:

From: paul packer
Date: Tues, Mar 21 2006 10:15 pm
Email: (paul packer)

Slough? Is that the Slough of Despond you're referring to, Arnie?

It's the murky swamplike area also known as his 'mind.'

That's what I said--the Slough of Despond.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:51:37 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"paul packer" wrote in message

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:16:06 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

(note that I claim that I'm a Sub

Is that sub-human,. Arnie? Honestly I don't think you're
anywhere near that bad. :-)

In a moment of mental lapsedness, I couldn't figure out whether Sackman,
Weil, or Packer would be stupid enough to bite on this set up.

And now you know. Good on you, Arnie.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net wrote in message

dave weil said:

It just makes it easier for me not to have to do the
inevitable responding back and forth to your bull****
that Jenn is having to go through right now.

One day, Jenn may well look back in fondness at her
indoctrination into the morass of "the debating trade".

She seems to have figured out "The Attack Thread" complete with my name
misspelled.

Gee, sorry that I mispelled your name; finger stuck on the n,
obviously. You have misspelled my name a few times. What that an
attack?

The Bug Eater shows why he's the perennial winner of the Usenet Dunce Trophy.

The fact is stll that there are far more subjectivists insulting
objecitivists[sic],[sic]than the other way round.

Let's just put this "fact" alongside duh-Mikey's other brilliant
declarations. Here are a few that I can recall without research:

1. Arnii Kroofeces is unpopular because of his "audio opinions".

2. Normals mock and deride the 'borgs because of "disagreements".

3. Arnii Krooborg is a "leader" and a "powerful debater", and Normals resort
to insulting him because we cannot muster enough "facts".

4. Everybody in a free society should be responsible for building their own
portion of the public road system, and the government should only take care
of armed forces and police.

5. The best way to choose audio components is by examining spec sheets and/or
gouging out your eyeballs. (Hyperbole courtesy of the Resistance.)


It's pointless to try to disabuse Mickey of his quaint notions. Hundreds of
people have tried, and the poor little cripple is just as stubborn as ever.




--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
wrote:

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in
message
ups.com...
From:
Date: Sat, Mar 18 2006 2:59 pm
Email:

Because as a gnereal rule, the 'Obs' don't start the insults, they
simply
respond to them when they are flung.

Translation: "They make me do it!"

Do you not respond to people who insult you?

If I may butt in for a sec... It's not whether one responds at all so
much as it is the style with which one responds, IMO.

So substance is not important?

That's not the point. The obvious point is that over time people tend
to respond in the same style that they are presented with.

Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.
One can learn from a curmudgeon, but not from someone without any
knowledge.
Guess which I prefer?

Not the issue. The issue is, "How do each of us want to be approached
in this NG?"

Hopefully with the best most accurate information there is. Arny has been
doing that for years and look what he gets for it.

Do you want just constant insults?

Of course not, but there's nothing you or I can do about swine like Middius
et al, when all they ever do is insult.

Fine, that's what you
have. If you want to change it, start changing it.

If you bother to observe, you will find that most of the time, when I
respond to anybody, it is not with insults, but then it always turns when
the other side starts in with insults. Very seldom do I draw first blood as
it were. Even with people who have a history of insults, I will usually try
and stay cordial, but there are people for whom this makes zero difference.

The noise level is where it is because of the subjectivists who will not
stay civil or on topic.

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

In article
.com,
"vlad" wrote:

Jenn wrote:
In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

m
In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
.
com
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

wrote in message
ink.net

Now that SHP, (can we call you that) or S for
short, has classed up the place by giving
everybody who want them free tweaks, I'm just
wondering how many have tried them?

Nobody with a brain.

It is hard to believe, but this place is getting
even more useless than it was. How low can the
so-called subjectivists go?

Way to put people into groups and judge them, Arny.
Not all "subjectivists" take those kind of tweaks
seriously.

I've noticed your many denounciations of SHP's crazy
tweeks Jenn. Not!

Avoidance of my point noted.

It's just an unsupported claim. What is there of
substance to avoid?

My point was totally supported by your initial
sentence: "How low can the so-called subjectivists go?"

I don't comment on everything with which I agree or
disagree if others are doing so and I have nothing
new to add.

That's the coward's road - it suits you well.

Does everyone notice how one can't make a point to Arny
without him coming back with an insult?

In my opinion, Arny is right.

Of course.

What Jenn does is instead of addressing
his point she attacks the messenger (Arni). Very typical
of her.

Read further up. Arny does EXACTLY what you claim I did.

Instead of addressing the point that I don't comment on
points where my views are already expressed by others
(which seems a perfectly sane thing to do)

This is untrue. Jen piles on whenever the spirit moves.

LOL Please provide some examples of me "piling on".

, he calls me a
coward (attacking the messenger.)

Sue me for telling the truth.

You are free to call me a coward if you wish to, even though the
claim
is totally unsupported.


It's a readily demonstrable fact that the subjectivists on RAO,
particularly
2 or three of them are the source sof the overwhelming majority of
personal
attacks around here. They don't discuss issues, they don't deal
with
the
message, they just attack the messenger, whether he's actually
delivering
a
message at the time or not.

Jenn and Stephen like to pretend that I bring this on myself,

False. I don't "like to pretend" anything. The clear fact is that
you
often display an abrasive personality. I seriously doubt that
anyone
would disagree with that statement.

The people who won't disagree with it are the ones that are the
instigators
of the attacks.

Overgeneralization. I've instigated no attacks, for example.

You have your head elsewhere when it comes to the source of the problem.

I'm providing an example of those who would agree with my statement, who
also don't instigate attacks.

What people are those? The people who don't engage in personal attacks, do
not get attacked by the Objectivists.


Would YOU
disagree with the statement that Arny displays an abrasive personality?

If you get harrassed for being alive for the last 8 years, you tend to
get
testy.

I would never be harassed by anyone for 8 years.


OK , let's suppose that you choose to post to a muscians group for the
purpose of sharing and instructing others based on your knowledge of the
subject. In the course of this, you make a statement or statements of
verifiable fact that causes 3 or 4 people attack every word you say from
then on. Do you stop posting to that group?

I've been here for a very long time and not seen any testiness unless
provoked.

Please be willing to back up that statement. Most would say that Arny
has been "testy" toward me in the present discussion.

Because you seem to be oblivious to the where the source of the problems
are.
Because you seem oblivious to certain facts about audio, which is why I
suspect you post less often to RAHE. A moderated forum that has several
very knowledgeable contributors who regularly confronted your notions.

How, exactly,
have I provoked it?

By blaming the wrong people. Let's go back to the example of you posting to
a musicans group.
If someone came along after you had been posting there for some time and
told you that it is you who cause the vitriol because you exist and because
you refuse to let people who lie about you get away with their lies, do you
stay calm in the face of inumerable posts saying that you are to blame for
the trouble?

After 8 years or more of constant hostility to anything close to
actual
objective audio information, one tends to have little patience with
assholes.

What possible benefit is there in being civil to people who never are
to
you?

I've been here almost as long as Arny and have seen the pattern far to
often
to pretend that it is anything other than persecution. Arny spoke of
ABX
and
other things that go against the subjectivist dogma and he has been a
target
ever since. It has little to do with his personality and everything
to
do
with his audio views.

It's very simple, none of the usual suspects could win an argument on
any
audio subject against Arny and they know it, so they attack everything
and
anything else.

So CHANGE THE PATTERN.

So don't talk about reality in audio?????????????????/

As per my post yesterday, my advice
is to simply treat people as you wish to be treated.

And when that fails and there is a never ending stream of attack threads
with your name in the header, accusing you of unspeakable acts and accusing
your spouse of prostitution, and you of necrophilia with one of your
children? GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD, it doesn't matter how nice Arny is or
not, there is a cadre of people here who will not stop until Arny stops
posting ANYTHING.

If you don't like
how someone is treating you, ignore them; the problem is likely to
go
away.


You are dreaming. The usual suspects are not going to let up until
anybody
who makes any accurate and consistent statements about audio is driven
away.
It is they who should be doing the ignoring and simply let people make
up
their minds about what is real and what is not, but they will not let
that
happen. They trash every single audio topic and do it with the most
vile
and personal attacks imaginable, as I'm sure you have already seen,
form
the
likes of Middius, EddieM and Fella.

Again, it cuts both ways.

No it doesn't. If people insult you every time you post on any topic and
regardless of who yo are talking to.

Remember the statements made to me based on
what I hear? "You're either stupid, deaf, or crazy." All for simply
and politely expressing my opinion.

Because it is quite clearly an opinion that makes no sense, based on the
reality of CD playback and the facts of the immense amounts of ditortion
present in LP's, combined with your profession.

And since you can't understand the opinion, you feel free to toss
insults as a response? Most folks wouldn't see that as a very adult
response.

Most folks respond negatively to people who ignore thngs that are a matter
of indisputable fact.
How would act towards someone who kept telling you that 2+2=5, every day and
every time you posted?

If having your opinions challenged in that way is to much for you, then
it's
time for you to either grow a thicker skin or get out.

You're probably right. The later option is probably the right one.

That depends on your commitment to the topic.

AFAIK I was the
ahrdest on you about your statments on timbre but I don't believe I
called
you stupid. I don't think anybody else did either.

Yes, you held that up as a possibility.

And I have explained why. I'm not saying that's the case but again 2+2=4.
CD playback is many times more accurate than LP's ever can be.


Pull your head from the clouds and get used to the fact that they will
never
let up and they will not let up.

Has it been tried?


Of course it's been tried, but as Arny has already told you, he doesn't
have
to be here for people to attack him. There was never any reason for
Middius
to use foul language in reards to Arny's wife and family, yet it has been
done regularly. You still don't get it, it doesn't matter anymore what
he
says, he provoked the Gods of subjectivism and told the truth, and has
had a
target on his back ever since. It has nothing to with him per se, as
evey
single objectiv ist has been treated the same way.

Look up posts from JJ, ( the guy who wrothe the book on much of digital
playback) Stewart Pinkerton, Nousaine or from Dr. B.J. Feng. None of
them
got any respect and all were or are trashed every time they post by the
usual suspects, mostly Middius.

Even a bona fide expert and near legend in audio, Dick Pierce gets ****
hurled at him because he actually knows what he is talking about.

I ask again, what is the benefit of being nice oreven civil to Middius,
Fella, or anyone who resents the fact that you know anything and have the
audacity to both speak the truth and draw breath?

but the record
shows that I don't have to even be posting here to be attacked.
Furthmore, I
don't have to be doing what I'm being attacked for doing.

There is often no connection between my actions and the attacks
against
me.
That fact completely falsifies their claims that I bring the
attacks
on
myself.

Kind of like being called a coward for no reason?

If you deny that the truth is the truth because you don't think it's nice
to
provoke people who don't care about anything other than insults and
attacks,
then you ARE a coward.

Red herring, bit time.

Some people actually are just plain NASTY.

Obviously.

For all
the **** Arny gets he has helped even people who have attacked him
because
it is better for people to have the right information, that's the kind of
person he is, not the made up monster that the swine here would like you
to
believe, and the evidence is clear by visiting other groups where the
idiots
who post here don't usually go.

So why does he go after me when I am trying to help?

Because of the blinders you are apparently wearing.

I've agreed with
him at times, I've thanked him for information, I've even laughed at a
couple of his jokes. And yet he keeps up with this aggressive posture.

Granted he's no day at the beach, but confrontational is not always the same
as attacking.
Stop denying reality and face up to the fact that 2+2=4.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net wrote in message

Jenn said:

For all
the **** Arny gets he has helped even people who have
attacked him because it is better for people to have
the right information

So why does he go after me when I am trying to help?
I've agreed with him at times, I've thanked him for
information, I've even laughed at a couple of his jokes.
And yet he keeps up with this aggressive posture.

Is that a rhetorical question? ;-)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...b34f5f4?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...55c84ef?hl=en&

Interesting how Richman never seemed to notice years afer year of
weirdness from Middius.

Or his own wierd behavior.

Actually not interesting at all - just another example of how one dirty
RAO hand washes another.

"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com...

: Gee, sorry that I mispelled your name; finger stuck on the n,
: obviously. You have misspelled my name a few times. What that an
: attack?

thanks for admitting, Jenn,
you like attacking Arny,
such as by cruelly confronting hym with logic
lots'Z
;-)

In article k.net,
wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

In article
.com,
"vlad" wrote:

Jenn wrote:
In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

.co
m
In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

gy.
com
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

wrote in message
ink.net

Now that SHP, (can we call you that) or S for
short, has classed up the place by giving
everybody who want them free tweaks, I'm just
wondering how many have tried them?

Nobody with a brain.

It is hard to believe, but this place is getting
even more useless than it was. How low can the
so-called subjectivists go?

Way to put people into groups and judge them, Arny.
Not all "subjectivists" take those kind of tweaks
seriously.

I've noticed your many denounciations of SHP's crazy
tweeks Jenn. Not!

Avoidance of my point noted.

It's just an unsupported claim. What is there of
substance to avoid?

My point was totally supported by your initial
sentence: "How low can the so-called subjectivists go?"

I don't comment on everything with which I agree or
disagree if others are doing so and I have nothing
new to add.

That's the coward's road - it suits you well.

Does everyone notice how one can't make a point to Arny
without him coming back with an insult?

In my opinion, Arny is right.

Of course.

What Jenn does is instead of addressing
his point she attacks the messenger (Arni). Very typical
of her.

Read further up. Arny does EXACTLY what you claim I did.

Instead of addressing the point that I don't comment on
points where my views are already expressed by others
(which seems a perfectly sane thing to do)

This is untrue. Jen piles on whenever the spirit moves.

LOL Please provide some examples of me "piling on".

, he calls me a
coward (attacking the messenger.)

Sue me for telling the truth.

You are free to call me a coward if you wish to, even though the
claim
is totally unsupported.


It's a readily demonstrable fact that the subjectivists on RAO,
particularly
2 or three of them are the source sof the overwhelming majority of
personal
attacks around here. They don't discuss issues, they don't deal
with
the
message, they just attack the messenger, whether he's actually
delivering
a
message at the time or not.

Jenn and Stephen like to pretend that I bring this on myself,

False. I don't "like to pretend" anything. The clear fact is that
you
often display an abrasive personality. I seriously doubt that
anyone
would disagree with that statement.

The people who won't disagree with it are the ones that are the
instigators
of the attacks.

Overgeneralization. I've instigated no attacks, for example.

You have your head elsewhere when it comes to the source of the problem.

I'm providing an example of those who would agree with my statement, who
also don't instigate attacks.

What people are those? The people who don't engage in personal attacks, do
not get attacked by the Objectivists.

Arny's treatment of me disproves your statement.


Would YOU
disagree with the statement that Arny displays an abrasive personality?

If you get harrassed for being alive for the last 8 years, you tend to
get
testy.

I would never be harassed by anyone for 8 years.


OK , let's suppose that you choose to post to a muscians group for the
purpose of sharing and instructing others based on your knowledge of the
subject. In the course of this, you make a statement or statements of
verifiable fact that causes 3 or 4 people attack every word you say from
then on. Do you stop posting to that group?

If I didn't display a generally nasty attitude and ignored the perps,
they would lose interest in flaming me. Basic group dynamics.


I've been here for a very long time and not seen any testiness unless
provoked.

Please be willing to back up that statement. Most would say that Arny
has been "testy" toward me in the present discussion.

Because you seem to be oblivious to the where the source of the problems
are.

That is an excuse for his behavior toward me? I think not.

Because you seem oblivious to certain facts about audio, which is why I
suspect you post less often to RAHE.

Again, false. I've never claimed to have much knowledge or interest in
the technical matters of audio (did you miss that part?). But "facts"
don't change what I hear.

A moderated forum that has several
very knowledgeable contributors who regularly confronted your notions.

That only reason that I have posted much of late to RAHE is because I've
been busy here. I'll return there shortly, as I'll no doubt be leaving
here.


How, exactly,
have I provoked it?

By blaming the wrong people.

Except that I haven't. I've blamed BOTH sides, clearly. Arny's
treatment of me is proof that his claim that the obs (him specifically)
are free from blame is false.

Let's go back to the example of you posting to
a musicans group.
If someone came along after you had been posting there for some time and
told you that it is you who cause the vitriol because you exist and because
you refuse to let people who lie about you get away with their lies, do you
stay calm in the face of inumerable posts saying that you are to blame for
the trouble?

For the answer to that question, just see the posts between Arny and me.
By the way, your example is a bit off. If I was posting to
"rec.music.opinion" and a person or persons came on and said that my
opinion sucks, I'd say, "Thanks for your opinion. Mine differs." If
they got personal, I'd ignore them. What I WOULDN'T do if a person
politely expressed their OPINION about something, is start insulting
them.


After 8 years or more of constant hostility to anything close to
actual
objective audio information, one tends to have little patience with
assholes.

What possible benefit is there in being civil to people who never are
to
you?

I've been here almost as long as Arny and have seen the pattern far to
often
to pretend that it is anything other than persecution. Arny spoke of
ABX
and
other things that go against the subjectivist dogma and he has been a
target
ever since. It has little to do with his personality and everything
to
do
with his audio views.

It's very simple, none of the usual suspects could win an argument on
any
audio subject against Arny and they know it, so they attack everything
and
anything else.

So CHANGE THE PATTERN.

So don't talk about reality in audio?????????????????/

As per my post yesterday, my advice
is to simply treat people as you wish to be treated.

And when that fails and there is a never ending stream of attack threads
with your name in the header, accusing you of unspeakable acts and accusing
your spouse of prostitution, and you of necrophilia with one of your
children? GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD, it doesn't matter how nice Arny is or
not, there is a cadre of people here who will not stop until Arny stops
posting ANYTHING.

I've not seen any evidence of Arny acting "nice" in any kind of general
way. Isolated posts? Sure.


If you don't like
how someone is treating you, ignore them; the problem is likely to
go
away.


You are dreaming. The usual suspects are not going to let up until
anybody
who makes any accurate and consistent statements about audio is driven
away.
It is they who should be doing the ignoring and simply let people make
up
their minds about what is real and what is not, but they will not let
that
happen. They trash every single audio topic and do it with the most
vile
and personal attacks imaginable, as I'm sure you have already seen,
form
the
likes of Middius, EddieM and Fella.

Again, it cuts both ways.

No it doesn't. If people insult you every time you post on any topic and
regardless of who yo are talking to.

Remember the statements made to me based on
what I hear? "You're either stupid, deaf, or crazy." All for simply
and politely expressing my opinion.

Because it is quite clearly an opinion that makes no sense, based on the
reality of CD playback and the facts of the immense amounts of ditortion
present in LP's, combined with your profession.

And since you can't understand the opinion, you feel free to toss
insults as a response? Most folks wouldn't see that as a very adult
response.

Most folks respond negatively to people who ignore thngs that are a matter
of indisputable fact.
How would act towards someone who kept telling you that 2+2=5, every day and
every time you posted?

How does that relate to my opinion of what I hear?


If having your opinions challenged in that way is to much for you, then
it's
time for you to either grow a thicker skin or get out.

You're probably right. The later option is probably the right one.

That depends on your commitment to the topic.

No, it has nothing to do with commitment, other than who should be
subject to it.


AFAIK I was the
ahrdest on you about your statments on timbre but I don't believe I
called
you stupid. I don't think anybody else did either.

Yes, you held that up as a possibility.

And I have explained why. I'm not saying that's the case but again 2+2=4.
CD playback is many times more accurate than LP's ever can be.

Your opinion of my intelligence (LOL) is in no way relevant to what I
HEAR.



Pull your head from the clouds and get used to the fact that they will
never
let up and they will not let up.

Has it been tried?


Of course it's been tried, but as Arny has already told you, he doesn't
have
to be here for people to attack him. There was never any reason for
Middius
to use foul language in reards to Arny's wife and family, yet it has been
done regularly. You still don't get it, it doesn't matter anymore what
he
says, he provoked the Gods of subjectivism and told the truth, and has
had a
target on his back ever since. It has nothing to with him per se, as
evey
single objectiv ist has been treated the same way.

Look up posts from JJ, ( the guy who wrothe the book on much of digital
playback) Stewart Pinkerton, Nousaine or from Dr. B.J. Feng. None of
them
got any respect and all were or are trashed every time they post by the
usual suspects, mostly Middius.

Even a bona fide expert and near legend in audio, Dick Pierce gets ****
hurled at him because he actually knows what he is talking about.

I ask again, what is the benefit of being nice oreven civil to Middius,
Fella, or anyone who resents the fact that you know anything and have the
audacity to both speak the truth and draw breath?

but the record
shows that I don't have to even be posting here to be attacked.
Furthmore, I
don't have to be doing what I'm being attacked for doing.

There is often no connection between my actions and the attacks
against
me.
That fact completely falsifies their claims that I bring the
attacks
on
myself.

Kind of like being called a coward for no reason?

If you deny that the truth is the truth because you don't think it's nice
to
provoke people who don't care about anything other than insults and
attacks,
then you ARE a coward.

Red herring, big time.

Some people actually are just plain NASTY.

Obviously.

For all
the **** Arny gets he has helped even people who have attacked him
because
it is better for people to have the right information, that's the kind of
person he is, not the made up monster that the swine here would like you
to
believe, and the evidence is clear by visiting other groups where the
idiots
who post here don't usually go.

So why does he go after me when I am trying to help?

Because of the blinders you are apparently wearing.

That's an odd approach to life, IMO; someone tries to help, so you
insult her.


I've agreed with
him at times, I've thanked him for information, I've even laughed at a
couple of his jokes. And yet he keeps up with this aggressive posture.

Granted he's no day at the beach, but confrontational is not always the same
as attacking.
Stop denying reality and face up to the fact that 2+2=4.

Stop denying the reality that Arny is far more than simply
"confrontational".

In article k.net,
wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
wrote:

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in
message
ups.com...
From:
Date: Sat, Mar 18 2006 2:59 pm
Email:

Because as a gnereal rule, the 'Obs' don't start the insults, they
simply
respond to them when they are flung.

Translation: "They make me do it!"

Do you not respond to people who insult you?

If I may butt in for a sec... It's not whether one responds at all so
much as it is the style with which one responds, IMO.

So substance is not important?

That's not the point. The obvious point is that over time people tend
to respond in the same style that they are presented with.

Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.
One can learn from a curmudgeon, but not from someone without any
knowledge.
Guess which I prefer?

Not the issue. The issue is, "How do each of us want to be approached
in this NG?"

Hopefully with the best most accurate information there is. Arny has been
doing that for years and look what he gets for it.

And I would give him nothing but respect for his knowledge of the
technical aspects of the hobby if he weren't always so nasty.


Do you want just constant insults?

Of course not, but there's nothing you or I can do about swine like Middius
et al, when all they ever do is insult.

Fine, that's what you
have. If you want to change it, start changing it.

If you bother to observe, you will find that most of the time, when I
respond to anybody, it is not with insults, but then it always turns when
the other side starts in with insults. Very seldom do I draw first blood as
it were. Even with people who have a history of insults, I will usually try
and stay cordial, but there are people for whom this makes zero difference.

I've experienced the same.


The noise level is where it is because of the subjectivists who will not
stay civil or on topic.

Ignore them and discuss audio with those who are cordial.

From:
Date: Thurs, Mar 23 2006 12:19 pm
Email:

Hopefully with the best most accurate information there is. Arny has been
doing that for years and look what he gets for it.

Oh. The 'high road' argument again.

The noise level is where it is because of the subjectivists who will not
stay civil or on topic.

Arny can't show any insults from Jenn.

Can you?

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote in message
ups.com


From:
Date: Sat, Mar 18 2006 2:59 pm
Email:

Because as a gnereal rule, the 'Obs' don't start the
insults, they simply respond to them when they are flung.
Translation: "They make me do it!"

Bogus red herring argument.

Not at all. You and nob frequently whine about insults. When it is
pointed out that you and he are among the highest-output posters of
insults, it becomes, "But the Subs started it!" or "The Subs do it more
than we do!"

In fact it doesn't matter how the so-called Obs respond to the overwhelming
barrageof provocations from the Subs on RAO. It's bad enough that the Subs
are out there flinging the crap, just about every chance they get.

In your case, you're probably right: you've been such a big ass to so
many for so long that you'll get flamed no matter what you do. You've
brought that upon yourself.

In nob's case, he gets flamed primarily because he's such a moron.

I don't see too many other obs getting treated all that roughly.

Why do you suppose you and nob get treated the way you do? Envy? LOL!

Shhhh! said, apparently to himself but presumably intended for the
Krooborg:

Why do you suppose you and nob get treated the way you do? Envy? LOL!

Krooger has a quaint set of delusions about why he receives what he calls
"abuse". Here are a couple of examples:

====== begin quote ======
Scottie:
So, why you guys keep expecting Arny to do what he is obviously
incapable of doing is beyond me.

Mr. ****:
Because they are jealous of my mind share. There are some very
fundamental problems with their approach, but I'm not going to tell
them how to do things right given that its to my advantage to keep
screwing up like they have.
====== end quote ======

====== begin quote ======
Dr. Z:
[The Krooborg] equates mindshare with achievement.

Mr. ****:
Whoaaaa, Zelniker admits that I've got mindshare. Yes, that's the
problem. I have mindshare and that makes these guys uncomfortable.
====== end quote ======

====== begin quote ======
Pseudonymous sockpuppet:
Again, all [the Krooborg's] words are...only words...

Mr. ****:
It's been said that I have too much "mindshare" in pretty much
exactly those words.
====== end quote ======



--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

wrote in message
hlink.net
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at]
comcast [dot] net wrote in message

Jenn said:

For all
the **** Arny gets he has helped even people who have
attacked him because it is better for people to have
the right information

So why does he go after me when I am trying to help?
I've agreed with him at times, I've thanked him for
information, I've even laughed at a couple of his
jokes. And yet he keeps up with this aggressive
posture.

Is that a rhetorical question? ;-)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...b34f5f4?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...55c84ef?hl=en&

Interesting how Richman never seemed to notice years
afer year of weirdness from Middius.

Or his own wierd behavior.

That too.

Actually not interesting at all - just another example
of how one dirty RAO hand washes another.

"Jenn" wrote in message


Stop denying the reality that Arny is far more than simply
"confrontational".

So Jenn, you're one attack thread with my name in the title line ahead of
me. How much further do you intend to go?

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

context restored
Jenn: I've agreed with
him at times, I've thanked him for information, I've even laughed at a
couple of his jokes. And yet he keeps up with this aggressive posture.

Mike: Granted he's no day at the beach, but confrontational is not
always the same
as attacking.
Stop denying reality and face up to the fact that 2+2=4.

Jenn: Stop denying the reality that Arny is far more than simply
"confrontational".

Arny: So Jenn, you're one attack thread with my name in the title line
ahead of
me. How much further do you intend to go?

I've made no "attack thread" with your name in the title. In fact, I've
made no attack thread at all.

From: Arny Krueger
Date: Sat, Mar 25 2006 11:05 am
Email: "Arny Krueger"

So Jenn, you're one attack thread with my name in the title line ahead of
me. How much further do you intend to go?

You accuse Jenn of insulting you, you are unwilling to provide proof of
your assertion, and then when Jenn asks if anybody has seen any
insults, that is an 'attack.'

So what's the weather like in your world today?

Are all three suns shining brightly?