[[email protected]]

Hi,

Maybe not a pro question, but I've had some good advice on here
before. I'm buying a flat and want to turn the second room into a
music practice room + studio. Its a 1900 birck built terrace and the
room is 3.7x3.7m with highish ceilings, roof on top, ground floor
flat below. Its an older flat so all walls are all single brick, 3
walls are intrenal to the house (its long, so bathroom and lounge
either side + a hallway in front) and the 1 wall shared with a
neighbour is traditional single skin housing, i.e. 2 bricks thick with
no cavity.

I'm I right in thinking this should already provide a fair amount of
sound insulation all ready?. I get the feeling during the day this
would be fine, but at night (I tend to work long hours / late and like
to destrees with music - city :/) I'm thinking I may need a little
more.

Problem I have is I'm struggling to find out how much sound dampening
the a single double brick wall can do. I see basically plaster board
or foam sound proofing products I can glue onto the wall (not sure how
flat the walls are...)

Fortunately I do not really need to keep sound out from other rooms in
my flat and the road it is on is quite, so external sound isnt really
a problem. (saying that there is a train track nearby, but double
glazing cuts that out. Was thinking of whatever treatment I do,
building a little foamed up plug for the window. I can pop into
place / secure when recording.

Ultimately my main goal is to acoustically treat the room as well so I
get a fair recording space combined practice room. Just wandering if
anyone can offer a little direction on what things may or may not
work / things I can investigate.

Thanks for any help,
Jon

[Mike Rivers]

On 5/24/2011 9:27 AM, wrote:
Hi,

Maybe not a pro question, but I've had some good advice on here
before. I'm buying a flat and want to turn the second room into a
music practice room + studio.

Problem I have is I'm struggling to find out how much sound dampening
the a single double brick wall can do. I see basically plaster board
or foam sound proofing products I can glue onto the wall (not sure how
flat the walls are...)

Foam won't help with this at all. You need density, and
extra layers of drywall (there's some stone-based stuff
that's more efficient and more expensive) that will reduce
the sound transmission through a shared wall, but you don't
know about the floor and ceiling. There can be sound
transmitted through there as well and just adding an
additional barrier to the common wall won't fix that.

Probably the best thing to do is to fess up to your
neighbor. Tell him what you want to do, get the band over at
a reasonable hour when he's home, play for a while, and ask
him how annoying it is. Go over there and listen yourself
while the rest of the band is playing. If you a little music
but loud thumping with the drums and bass, that's probably
coming through the floor or ceiling or both. But if it's not
too loud and reasonably balanced, you can probably get away
with a couple of extra layers of drywall on the wall between
your apartments.

There are better and worse ways of attaching the additional
material. Someone will probably tell you the proper name for
"green glue" that provides a firm but resilient bond between
layers that will help by adding some damping.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Alice Dagger]

On May 24, 9:27*am, "
wrote:
Hi,

Maybe not a pro question, but I've had some good advice on here
before. *I'm buying a flat and want to turn the second room into a
music practice room + studio. *Its a 1900 birck built terrace and the
room is 3.7x3.7m with highish ceilings, *roof on top, ground floor
flat below. *Its an older flat so all walls are all single brick, 3
walls are intrenal to the house (its long, so bathroom and lounge
either side + a hallway in front) and the 1 wall shared with a
neighbour is traditional single skin housing, i.e. 2 bricks thick with
no cavity.

I'm I right in thinking this should already provide a fair amount of
sound insulation all ready?. *I get the feeling during the day this
would be fine, but at night (I tend to work long hours / late and like
to destrees with music - city :/) I'm thinking I may need a little
more.

Problem I have is I'm struggling to find out how much sound dampening
the a single double brick wall can do. *I see basically plaster board
or foam sound proofing products I can glue onto the wall (not sure how
flat the walls are...)

Fortunately I do not really need to keep sound out from other rooms in
my flat and the road it is on is quite, so external sound isnt really
a problem. (saying that there is a train track nearby, but double
glazing cuts that out. *Was thinking of whatever treatment I do,
building a little foamed up plug for the window. I can pop into
place / secure when recording.

Ultimately my main goal is to acoustically treat the room as well so I
get a fair recording space combined practice room. *Just wandering if
anyone can offer a little direction on what things may or may not
work / things I can investigate.

Thanks for any help,
Jon

Hi Jon,

I work for a company which makes sound-isolating modular music
practice rooms if this is what you're looking for - the minimum size
we do is 2m x 2m. Our web address is www.musicpracticerooms.com if
you want to take a look (we're based in Tunbridge Wells). Just
realised you're on the first floor though - our rooms are quite heavy
so would need to check what the floor is made of.

Best wishes,

Alice

[cporro]

your best option is the room within a room thing. what alive is
talking about. it's the only way i can think of that you will really
keep your noise from getting into the structural members of the
building. once something like a bass guitar or kick drum get into the
structure it can travel pretty well.

there is a great book on this subject called...i think "studio design:
build it like the pros". the author is basically a construction guy
but he does lay down some of the acoustic basics.

one other thing. sound proofing (or as i call it sound limiting) is
different then treating a room. you could sound proof a room and have
it sound terrible inside for recording and vice versa. sound proofing
is about sealing things up, adding mass, and decoupling from the main
structure. room treatment doesn't care what sound gets out. it only
cares about the stuff bouncing around your room.

seriously that book is worth 10 times it's price if you ever start
construction on this project.

[[email protected]]

On May 27, 5:27*am, cporro wrote:
your best option is the room within a room thing. what alive is
talking about. it's the only way i can think of that you will really
keep your noise from getting into the structural members of the
building. once something like a bass guitar or kick drum get into the
structure it can travel pretty well.

there is a great book on this subject called...i think "studio design:
build it like the pros". the author is basically a construction guy
but he does lay down some of the acoustic basics.

one other thing. sound proofing (or as i call it sound limiting) is
different then treating a room. you could sound proof a room and have
it sound terrible inside for recording and vice versa. sound proofing
is about sealing things up, adding mass, and decoupling from the main
structure. room treatment doesn't care what sound gets out. it only
cares about the stuff bouncing around your room.

seriously that book is worth 10 times it's price if you ever start
construction on this project.

ah cool will take a look, yeah treating the room was the second
step :P. Thanks.

[[email protected]]

On May 24, 3:14*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 5/24/2011 9:27 AM, wrote:

Hi,

Maybe not a pro question, but I've had some good advice on here
before. *I'm buying a flat and want to turn the second room into a
music practice room + studio.
Problem I have is I'm struggling to find out how much sound dampening
the a single double brick wall can do. *I see basically plaster board
or foam sound proofing products I can glue onto the wall (not sure how
flat the walls are...)

Foam won't help with this at all. You need density, and
extra layers of drywall (there's some stone-based stuff
that's more efficient and more expensive) that will reduce
the sound transmission through a shared wall, but you don't
know about the floor and ceiling. There can be sound
transmitted through there as well and just adding an
additional barrier to the common wall won't fix that.

Probably the best thing to do is to fess up to your
neighbor. Tell him what you want to do, get the band over at
a reasonable hour when he's home, play for a while, and ask
him how annoying it is. Go over there and listen yourself
while the rest of the band is playing. If you a little music
but loud thumping with the drums and bass, that's probably
coming through the floor or ceiling or both. But if it's not
too loud and reasonably balanced, you can probably get away
with a couple of extra layers of drywall on the wall between
your apartments.

There are better and worse ways of attaching the additional
material. Someone will probably tell you the proper name for
"green glue" that provides a firm but resilient bond between
layers that will help by adding some damping.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com- useful and
interesting audio stuff

Yeah I think that would be a sensible idea. I'm thinking some like
piano / voice shouldnt be a problem later at night. Thanks

[[email protected]]

On May 25, 2:20*pm, Alice Dagger wrote:
On May 24, 9:27*am, "
wrote:









Hi,

Maybe not a pro question, but I've had some good advice on here
before. *I'm buying a flat and want to turn the second room into a
music practice room + studio. *Its a 1900 birck built terrace and the
room is 3.7x3.7m with highish ceilings, *roof on top, ground floor
flat below. *Its an older flat so all walls are all single brick, 3
walls are intrenal to the house (its long, so bathroom and lounge
either side + a hallway in front) and the 1 wall shared with a
neighbour is traditional single skin housing, i.e. 2 bricks thick with
no cavity.

I'm I right in thinking this should already provide a fair amount of
sound insulation all ready?. *I get the feeling during the day this
would be fine, but at night (I tend to work long hours / late and like
to destrees with music - city :/) I'm thinking I may need a little
more.

Problem I have is I'm struggling to find out how much sound dampening
the a single double brick wall can do. *I see basically plaster board
or foam sound proofing products I can glue onto the wall (not sure how
flat the walls are...)

Fortunately I do not really need to keep sound out from other rooms in
my flat and the road it is on is quite, so external sound isnt really
a problem. (saying that there is a train track nearby, but double
glazing cuts that out. *Was thinking of whatever treatment I do,
building a little foamed up plug for the window. I can pop into
place / secure when recording.

Ultimately my main goal is to acoustically treat the room as well so I
get a fair recording space combined practice room. *Just wandering if
anyone can offer a little direction on what things may or may not
work / things I can investigate.

Thanks for any help,
Jon

Hi Jon,

I work for a company which makes sound-isolating modular music
practice rooms if this is what you're looking for - the minimum size
we do is 2m x 2m. *Our web address iswww.musicpracticerooms.comif
you want to take a look (we're based in Tunbridge Wells). *Just
realised you're on the first floor though - our rooms are quite heavy
so would need to check what the floor is made of.

Best wishes,

Alice

Interesting, think it may be a little overkill for my needs, thanks
tho.

[Bigguy2010]

On 24/05/2011 14:27, wrote:
Hi,

Maybe not a pro question, but I've had some good advice on here
before. I'm buying a flat and want to turn the second room into a
music practice room + studio. Its a 1900 birck built terrace and the
room is 3.7x3.7m with highish ceilings, roof on top, ground floor
flat below. Its an older flat so all walls are all single brick, 3
walls are intrenal to the house (its long, so bathroom and lounge
either side + a hallway in front) and the 1 wall shared with a
neighbour is traditional single skin housing, i.e. 2 bricks thick with
no cavity.

I'm I right in thinking this should already provide a fair amount of
sound insulation all ready?. I get the feeling during the day this
would be fine, but at night (I tend to work long hours / late and like
to destrees with music - city :/) I'm thinking I may need a little
more.

Problem I have is I'm struggling to find out how much sound dampening
the a single double brick wall can do. I see basically plaster board
or foam sound proofing products I can glue onto the wall (not sure how
flat the walls are...)

Fortunately I do not really need to keep sound out from other rooms in
my flat and the road it is on is quite, so external sound isnt really
a problem. (saying that there is a train track nearby, but double
glazing cuts that out. Was thinking of whatever treatment I do,
building a little foamed up plug for the window. I can pop into
place / secure when recording.

Ultimately my main goal is to acoustically treat the room as well so I
get a fair recording space combined practice room. Just wandering if
anyone can offer a little direction on what things may or may not
work / things I can investigate.

Thanks for any help,
Jon


I think you are being a little optimistic here...

No way can you use a flat (as described) as a practice studio without a
serious amount of work and expense.

Without a 'room within a room' approach you are unlikely to effectively
reduce the sound leakage into your neighbours' properties.

They will (rightly) complain.
Sooner or later someone will shoot you...

Start with a more suitable property - either a detached house or an
industrial unit.

G

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Bigguy2010 wrote:

On 24/05/2011 14:27, wrote:
Hi,

Maybe not a pro question, but I've had some good advice on here
before. I'm buying a flat and want to turn the second room into a
music practice room + studio. Its a 1900 birck built terrace and the
room is 3.7x3.7m with highish ceilings, roof on top, ground floor
flat below. Its an older flat so all walls are all single brick, 3
walls are intrenal to the house (its long, so bathroom and lounge
either side + a hallway in front) and the 1 wall shared with a
neighbour is traditional single skin housing, i.e. 2 bricks thick
with no cavity.

Only possible in something that is built like the Chelsea.

I'm I right in thinking this should already provide a fair amount of
sound insulation all ready?. I get the feeling during the day this
would be fine, but at night (I tend to work long hours / late and
like to destrees with music - city :/) I'm thinking I may need a
little more.

Problem I have is I'm struggling to find out how much sound dampening
the a single double brick wall can do.

50'ish dB. Midrange pure tones such as those from symphonic kettle drums
will pass it and annoy the neighbor even if just from playback of a
symphonic recording. Was in neighbors flat for a listen, he was right, it
was obnoxious even if it didn't cause coffee to spill.

Fortunately I do not really need to keep sound out from other rooms
in my flat and the road it is on is quite,

That is bad and exactly the problem I ran into: not enough external noise to
max the sound.

Ultimately my main goal is to acoustically treat the room as well so
I get a fair recording space combined practice room. Just wandering
if anyone can offer a little direction on what things may or may not
work / things I can investigate.

You can get reasonable mileage from a double gypsum wall structure filled
with rockwool if you can accept the required depth, less than 25 centimers
total is probbably not possible. The real "you're dead" is the floor planks
and their coupling to the wall. Rockwool - and thus presumeably also other
insulation vendors - do have a floor insulation product that WILL render
your floor kinda semi-floating at the cost of some 70 mm including chipboard
tile covering, but it get to be a large project if you end up having to do
that on the entire floor of the flat and you need to read fine print closely
before modifying premises so much.

Where I live acoustic guitar - note acoustic, not electric - acoustic guitar
is audible from flat to flat. Fortunately I didn't know that when recording
an improvisation at 3 am, playing with the morning birds now quite some time
ago.

Thanks for any help,

The first thing to adjust is the neighbors noise acceptance level, try
coffee and try negotiating a time slot. And or all of the suggestion below,
left in because seconded. Socializing with the neighbors raises their noise
acceptance, not doing it lowers it. Letting them know and be in on your
building mod if you do go that route probably also helps, it is better that
they know you care than that they think you disregard.

Jon

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


I think you are being a little optimistic here...

No way can you use a flat (as described) as a practice studio without
a serious amount of work and expense.

Without a 'room within a room' approach you are unlikely to
effectively reduce the sound leakage into your neighbours' properties.

They will (rightly) complain.
Sooner or later someone will shoot you...

Start with a more suitable property - either a detached house or an
industrial unit.

G

[Tony[_11_]]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 07:13:20 +0100, "Peter Larsen" wrote:

Bigguy2010 wrote:

On 24/05/2011 14:27, wrote:
Hi,

Maybe not a pro question, but I've had some good advice on here
before. I'm buying a flat and want to turn the second room into a
music practice room + studio. Its a 1900 birck built terrace and the
room is 3.7x3.7m with highish ceilings, roof on top, ground floor
flat below. Its an older flat so all walls are all single brick, 3
walls are intrenal to the house (its long, so bathroom and lounge
either side + a hallway in front) and the 1 wall shared with a
neighbour is traditional single skin housing, i.e. 2 bricks thick
with no cavity.

Only possible in something that is built like the Chelsea.

I'm I right in thinking this should already provide a fair amount of
sound insulation all ready?. I get the feeling during the day this
would be fine, but at night (I tend to work long hours / late and
like to destrees with music - city :/) I'm thinking I may need a
little more.

Problem I have is I'm struggling to find out how much sound dampening
the a single double brick wall can do.

50'ish dB. Midrange pure tones such as those from symphonic kettle drums
will pass it and annoy the neighbor even if just from playback of a
symphonic recording. Was in neighbors flat for a listen, he was right, it
was obnoxious even if it didn't cause coffee to spill.

Fortunately I do not really need to keep sound out from other rooms
in my flat and the road it is on is quite,

That is bad and exactly the problem I ran into: not enough external noise to
max the sound.

Ultimately my main goal is to acoustically treat the room as well so
I get a fair recording space combined practice room. Just wandering
if anyone can offer a little direction on what things may or may not
work / things I can investigate.

You can get reasonable mileage from a double gypsum wall structure filled
with rockwool if you can accept the required depth, less than 25 centimers
total is probbably not possible. The real "you're dead" is the floor planks
and their coupling to the wall. Rockwool - and thus presumeably also other
insulation vendors - do have a floor insulation product that WILL render
your floor kinda semi-floating at the cost of some 70 mm including chipboard
tile covering, but it get to be a large project if you end up having to do
that on the entire floor of the flat and you need to read fine print closely
before modifying premises so much.

Where I live acoustic guitar - note acoustic, not electric - acoustic guitar
is audible from flat to flat. Fortunately I didn't know that when recording
an improvisation at 3 am, playing with the morning birds now quite some time
ago.

Thanks for any help,

The first thing to adjust is the neighbors noise acceptance level, try
coffee and try negotiating a time slot. And or all of the suggestion below,
left in because seconded. Socializing with the neighbors raises their noise
acceptance, not doing it lowers it. Letting them know and be in on your
building mod if you do go that route probably also helps, it is better that
they know you care than that they think you disregard.

Jon

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


I think you are being a little optimistic here...

No way can you use a flat (as described) as a practice studio without
a serious amount of work and expense.

Without a 'room within a room' approach you are unlikely to
effectively reduce the sound leakage into your neighbours' properties.

They will (rightly) complain.
Sooner or later someone will shoot you...

Start with a more suitable property - either a detached house or an
industrial unit.

G

I guess you can't really spare the space for double air-spaced walls, so you should at
least check out "green glue". It's expensive, but nothing else comes close for ultra-thin
isolation.

Cheers
Tony