I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC conversion for
redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for DVD-Audio. There are some titles in
SACD that I would like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD player (not a
DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on sites like amazon.com or
crutchfield. I am not going to spend $1000 on a universal player, so
my question is: should I stick with this Sony player that has gotten
good reviews or get a better SACD player, like a Denon, Marantz, Onkyo
in the $300-500 range? Would I hear a difference? Is it worth it? Thank
you!

"insoc" wrote in message
oups.com
I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC
conversion for redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for
DVD-Audio. There are some titles in SACD that I would
like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD
player (not a DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on
sites like amazon.com or crutchfield. I am not going to
spend $1000 on a universal player, so my question is:
should I stick with this Sony player that has gotten good
reviews or get a better SACD player, like a Denon,
Marantz, Onkyo in the $300-500 range? Would I hear a
difference? Is it worth it? Thank you!

As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats, respectively.
Therefore, getting a dedicated player for any of them is risky. There is an
inexpensive universal DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say sounds
good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

insoc wrote:
I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC conversion for
redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for DVD-Audio. There are some titles in
SACD that I would like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD player (not a
DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on sites like amazon.com or
crutchfield. I am not going to spend $1000 on a universal player

You don't have to. There are at least a few universal models for sale new
at $1000.


___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority

"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
...
insoc wrote:
I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC conversion for
redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for DVD-Audio. There are some titles in
SACD that I would like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD player (not a
DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on sites like amazon.com or
crutchfield. I am not going to spend $1000 on a universal player

You don't have to. There are at least a few universal models for sale new
at $1000.

My neighbor just gave me a Sony DVP-NS775V
I was gonna give away.. but then I saw it will play SACD.
Anybody got an opinion on it? I don't have any SACDs to
check it out. Is it worth keeping?

ScottW

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"insoc" wrote in message
oups.com
I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC
conversion for redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for
DVD-Audio. There are some titles in SACD that I would
like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD
player (not a DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on
sites like amazon.com or crutchfield. I am not going to
spend $1000 on a universal player, so my question is:
should I stick with this Sony player that has gotten good
reviews or get a better SACD player, like a Denon,
Marantz, Onkyo in the $300-500 range? Would I hear a
difference? Is it worth it? Thank you!

As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats, respectively.
Therefore, getting a dedicated player for any of them is risky. There is
an inexpensive universal DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say sounds
good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:6OKTf.138925$0G.81529@dukeread10...

"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
...
insoc wrote:
I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC conversion for
redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for DVD-Audio. There are some titles in
SACD that I would like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD player (not a
DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on sites like amazon.com or
crutchfield. I am not going to spend $1000 on a universal player

You don't have to. There are at least a few universal models for sale
new
at $1000.

My neighbor just gave me a Sony DVP-NS775V
I was gonna give away.. but then I saw it will play SACD.
Anybody got an opinion on it? I don't have any SACDs to
check it out. Is it worth keeping?


It is not cosidered one of Sony's outstanding SACD players, but it is
probably as good as anything under $150. It can be modded for improved
performance.

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"insoc" wrote in message
oups.com

I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC
conversion for redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for
DVD-Audio. There are some titles in SACD that I would
like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD
player (not a DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on
sites like amazon.com or crutchfield. I am not going to
spend $1000 on a universal player, so my question is:
should I stick with this Sony player that has gotten
good reviews or get a better SACD player, like a Denon,
Marantz, Onkyo in the $300-500 range? Would I hear a
difference? Is it worth it? Thank you!

As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats,
respectively. Therefore, getting a dedicated player for
any of them is risky. There is an inexpensive universal
DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say sounds good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

Harry, prove or even give just one shred of reliable unbiased evidence that
the the SACD performance of the Pioneer DV-578A-S is substandard in any way,
besides your typical "Harry says its substandard, so it has to be
substandard".

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:6OKTf.138925$0G.81529@dukeread10...

"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
...
insoc wrote:
I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC
conversion for redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for
DVD-Audio. There are some titles in SACD that I would
like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated
SACD player (not a DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo
on sites like amazon.com or crutchfield. I am not
going to spend $1000 on a universal player

You don't have to. There are at least a few universal
models for sale new
at $1000.

My neighbor just gave me a Sony DVP-NS775V
I was gonna give away.. but then I saw it will play SACD.
Anybody got an opinion on it? I don't have any SACDs to
check it out. Is it worth keeping?


It is not cosidered one of Sony's outstanding SACD
players, but it is probably as good as anything under
$150. It can be modded for improved performance.

It is well known that virtually every published optical player mod on the
web is unproven in any reliable, unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt
performance.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

Harry, prove or even give just one shred of reliable unbiased evidence
that the the SACD performance of the Pioneer DV-578A-S is substandard in
any way, besides your typical "Harry says its substandard, so it has to be
substandard".

Oh, you mean kinda like that "Arny says you can't hear it so it can't be
heard" line. I get it.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published optical player mod on the
web is unproven in any reliable, unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt
performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

"insoc" wrote in message
oups.com...
I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC conversion for
redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for DVD-Audio. There are some titles in
SACD that I would like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD player (not a
DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on sites like amazon.com or
crutchfield. I am not going to spend $1000 on a universal player, so
my question is: should I stick with this Sony player that has gotten
good reviews or get a better SACD player, like a Denon, Marantz, Onkyo
in the $300-500 range? Would I hear a difference? Is it worth it? Thank
you!


ignore Arny



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

"jeffc" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

Harry, prove or even give just one shred of reliable
unbiased evidence that the the SACD performance of the
Pioneer DV-578A-S is substandard in any way, besides
your typical "Harry says its substandard, so it has to
be substandard".

Oh, you mean kinda like that "Arny says you can't hear it
so it can't be heard" line. I get it.

No, I mean kinda like the truth will out.

In the case of SACD and DVD-A the truth has pretty much outed, and they are
well on their way to becoming dead formats. Most everybody who invested in
them got a lot less than they initially expected, particularly among the
business people who promoted them the most heavily. A few people have even
lost their jobs.

Jeff, if you know anything about psychoacoustics, you'd know why SACD and
DVD-A failed to obtain a critical mass with the music-loving public. Your
posturing above speaks to your lack of relevant education.

"François Yves Le Gal" wrote in
message
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:58:46 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats,
respectively.

Don't generalize from a US viewpoint, Arny: SACD is
thriving in the rest of the world, particularly when it
comes to classical music releases.

I'd like to see relevant evidence of that. In the US we know exactly what's
happening because the RIAA is a central public distribution point for the
relevant stats. I know of no similar source that works on a world-wide
basis, so whatever is happening is a complete mystery.

Given the way they supported Beta to the bitter end, there's no reason to
not believe that Sony is propping SACD up with a fire hose spewing cash.

And yes, DVD-A is dead.

The bad news is that there were DVD-A subformats that could actually make
psychoacoustic sense - those that bypassed AC-3 for multichannel.

"jeffc" wrote in message
news
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published optical
player mod on the web is unproven in any reliable,
unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has nothing of substance
to say?

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"insoc" wrote in message
oups.com...
I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC
conversion for redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for
DVD-Audio. There are some titles in SACD that I would
like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD
player (not a DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on
sites like amazon.com or crutchfield. I am not going to
spend $1000 on a universal player, so my question is:
should I stick with this Sony player that has gotten
good reviews or get a better SACD player, like a Denon,
Marantz, Onkyo in the $300-500 range? Would I hear a
difference? Is it worth it? Thank you!

ignore Arny

This is about the most impressive positive recommendation that I could hope
for.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message
news
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published optical
player mod on the web is unproven in any reliable,
unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has nothing of
substance to say?
No.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message
news
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published optical
player mod on the web is unproven in any reliable,
unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has
nothing of substance to say?

No.

So what of substance was there in Jeff's post?

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Robert Morein" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message
news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published optical
player mod on the web is unproven in any reliable,
unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has
nothing of substance to say?

No.

So what of substance was there in Jeff's post?

Anybody notice how Arny postures a lot, but really has nothing of substance
to say?

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Robert Morein" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message
news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published
optical player mod on the web is unproven in any
reliable, unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt
performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has
nothing of substance to say?

No.

So what of substance was there in Jeff's post?

Anybody notice how Arny postures a lot, but really has
nothing of substance to say?


Just goes to show that Robert can't tell the difference between a simple
relevant question and posturing.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Robert Morein" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Robert Morein" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message
news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published
optical player mod on the web is unproven in any
reliable, unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt
performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has
nothing of substance to say?

No.

So what of substance was there in Jeff's post?

Anybody notice how Arny postures a lot, but really has
nothing of substance to say?


Just goes to show that Robert can't tell the difference between a simple
relevant question and posturing.
If irony killed.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Robert Morein" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message
news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published optical
player mod on the web is unproven in any reliable,
unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has
nothing of substance to say?

No.

So what of substance was there in Jeff's post?

Just like the substance of Robert's posts, absent, that's why I killfiled
him.

Robert Morein said:

Anybody notice how Arny postures a lot, but really has nothing of substance
to say?

Thanks Mr. Morien for admitting the debating trade is "nothing of substance"
Mr. Moiren.





--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

duh-Mikey pounds his scrawny little chest.

Just like the substance of Robert's posts, absent, that's why I killfiled
him.

Prove it!™




--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"insoc" wrote in message
oups.com

I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC
conversion for redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for
DVD-Audio. There are some titles in SACD that I would
like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD
player (not a DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on
sites like amazon.com or crutchfield. I am not going to
spend $1000 on a universal player, so my question is:
should I stick with this Sony player that has gotten
good reviews or get a better SACD player, like a Denon,
Marantz, Onkyo in the $300-500 range? Would I hear a
difference? Is it worth it? Thank you!

As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats,
respectively. Therefore, getting a dedicated player for
any of them is risky. There is an inexpensive universal
DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say sounds good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

Harry, prove or even give just one shred of reliable unbiased evidence
that the the SACD performance of the Pioneer DV-578A-S is substandard in
any way, besides your typical "Harry says its substandard, so it has to be
substandard".

Obviously I can't "prove" anything and won't even try on a usenet discussion
entititled R-A-Opinion.

But since I have a Sony XA2000ES (plus two earlier Sony SACD/CD players) and
have auditioned against Toshiba and Panasonic CD/DVD-A players, as well as a
Denon 2905 universal....and most importantly, USE a 578a for DVD-V and
DVD-A, I am in position to directly compared the SACD capability of the 578a
versus the Sony XA2000ES. I also have several SACD's where I deliberately
bought two copies to do comparisons. The most revealing of these is Genius
Loves Company and there is no comparison...the Sony presents the studio
space and singing voices, drums, etc. that are dimensional in space (I have
a five full-range 5.0 system). By comparison, the 578 dries up the ambiance
almost completely, and sounds pretty much like a somewhat "dry" conventional
CD player. It's CD layer is actually more transparent. My guess is that it
is processed as PCM, because my Sony's (particularly the earlier ones) do
the same thing when they have PCM switched in to process speaker distances
and bass management. Whether this is intrinsic to PCM processing, or simply
an inferior implementation when it comes to SACD I don't know. What I do
know is that side-by-side and level matched one is markedly superior....and
it is not the Pioneer.

Harry Lavo wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"insoc" wrote in message
oups.com

I already have a NAD cd player (521i) with 20bit DAC
conversion for redbook cds and a Panasonic S97 for
DVD-Audio. There are some titles in SACD that I would
like to get, thus I need a SACD player. I am very
interested in the Sony SCD-CE595. It is a dedicated SACD
player (not a DVD) and you can get it at $150,oo on
sites like amazon.com or crutchfield. I am not going to
spend $1000 on a universal player, so my question is:
should I stick with this Sony player that has gotten
good reviews or get a better SACD player, like a Denon,
Marantz, Onkyo in the $300-500 range? Would I hear a
difference? Is it worth it? Thank you!

As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats,
respectively. Therefore, getting a dedicated player for
any of them is risky. There is an inexpensive universal
DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say sounds good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

Harry, prove or even give just one shred of reliable unbiased evidence
that the the SACD performance of the Pioneer DV-578A-S is substandard in
any way, besides your typical "Harry says its substandard, so it has to be
substandard".

Obviously I can't "prove" anything and won't even try on a usenet discussion
entititled R-A-Opinion.

But since I have a Sony XA2000ES (plus two earlier Sony SACD/CD players) and
have auditioned against Toshiba and Panasonic CD/DVD-A players, as well as a
Denon 2905 universal....and most importantly, USE a 578a for DVD-V and
DVD-A, I am in position to directly compared the SACD capability of the 578a
versus the Sony XA2000ES. I also have several SACD's where I deliberately
bought two copies to do comparisons. The most revealing of these is Genius
Loves Company and there is no comparison...the Sony presents the studio
space and singing voices, drums, etc. that are dimensional in space (I have
a five full-range 5.0 system). By comparison, the 578 dries up the ambiance
almost completely, and sounds pretty much like a somewhat "dry" conventional
CD player. It's CD layer is actually more transparent. My guess is that it
is processed as PCM, because my Sony's (particularly the earlier ones) do
the same thing when they have PCM switched in to process speaker distances
and bass management. Whether this is intrinsic to PCM processing, or simply
an inferior implementation when it comes to SACD I don't know. What I do
know is that side-by-side and level matched one is markedly superior....and
it is not the Pioneer.

What I do know is that your comparisons are typically sighted, not levelmatched,
and there's no measurements to back them up --- and therefore just more of the
same old same old.

Remember, even you have conceded that sighted listening is prone to error,
and the blind comparison....'monodic' or whatever ...is what will produce
reliable results.

So why should anyone take your report here as anything but 'prone to
error' too?

How about you at least measure the output of each player, and see if you
aren't hearing some simple, verifiable level differences? Before leaping
off into the speculative void, I mean.






___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

Harry, prove or even give just one shred of reliable
unbiased evidence that the the SACD performance of the
Pioneer DV-578A-S is substandard in any way, besides
your typical "Harry says its substandard, so it has to
be substandard".

Oh, you mean kinda like that "Arny says you can't hear it
so it can't be heard" line. I get it.

No, I mean kinda like the truth will out.

In the case of SACD and DVD-A the truth has pretty much outed, and they
are well on their way to becoming dead formats. Most everybody who
invested in them got a lot less than they initially expected, particularly
among the business people who promoted them the most heavily. A few people
have even lost their jobs.

Jeff, if you know anything about psychoacoustics, you'd know why SACD and
DVD-A failed to obtain a critical mass with the music-loving public. Your
posturing above speaks to your lack of relevant education.

What the hell are you talking about? I didn't say anything about SACD, so
you went off and used it as an excuse to blather more. I simply pointed out
how clueless you are in general.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message
news
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published optical
player mod on the web is unproven in any reliable,
unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has nothing of
substance to say?

Anybody notice what a douche bag Arny is?

"jeffc" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message
news
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published optical
player mod on the web is unproven in any reliable,
unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has
nothing of substance to say?

Anybody notice what a douche bag Arny is?

Yet another subjectivist poster, a picture of tact and maturity.

"jeffc" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"jeffc" wrote in message
news
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It is well known that virtually every published optical
player mod on the web is unproven in any reliable,
unbiased way. Some of them probably hurt performance.

A lot like your opinions, now that you mention it.

Anybody notice how Jeff postures a lot, but really has nothing of
substance to say?

Anybody notice what a douche bag Arny is?
Then why try out douche bag him?

The Bug Eater makes a stab at embracing reality.

Anybody notice what a douche bag Arny is?

Then why try out douche bag him?

It's one thing to cry your eyes out because the Krooborg receives so much
"abuse". It's another thing to admit he's a douchebag and *still* continue
to idolize him.

Now that you've admitted Krooger is a douchebag, Mickey, what does that
make you?




--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

Harry Lavo wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats, respectively.
Therefore, getting a dedicated player for any of them is risky. There is
an inexpensive universal DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say sounds
good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

I was surprised/shocked by this comment Harry as you recommended this
the Pioneer 578A inm a impromptu review on rec.audio.highend dated Sept
14, 2004 calling it "a minor miracle".

Your comments on the SACD playback we

"SACD - acceptably good - converted to PCM and in the process looses a
bit of
transparency...the ambience is drier than either of the above...same
slight
"house sound" .. but to it's credit it "fixes" instruments in space
with
stability that eludes my Sony C222ES "

comments on the CD playback:

"CD - very, very good. Has the Pioneer "house sound" of slightly warm
upper
bass and slightly rolled off deep bass, but very transparent in the
midrange
and very dynamic. Excellent CD sound. "

I bought the unit largely on your recommendation as a 1st step to
developing a SACD collection.

Why the sudden about face?

"RalphH" wrote in message
oups.com...

Harry Lavo wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats, respectively.
Therefore, getting a dedicated player for any of them is risky. There
is
an inexpensive universal DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say
sounds
good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

I was surprised/shocked by this comment Harry as you recommended this
the Pioneer 578A inm a impromptu review on rec.audio.highend dated Sept
14, 2004 calling it "a minor miracle".

Your comments on the SACD playback we

"SACD - acceptably good - converted to PCM and in the process looses a
bit of
transparency...the ambience is drier than either of the above...same
slight
"house sound" .. but to it's credit it "fixes" instruments in space
with
stability that eludes my Sony C222ES "

comments on the CD playback:

"CD - very, very good. Has the Pioneer "house sound" of slightly warm
upper
bass and slightly rolled off deep bass, but very transparent in the
midrange
and very dynamic. Excellent CD sound. "

I bought the unit largely on your recommendation as a 1st step to
developing a SACD collection.

Why the sudden about face?

No about face. I still think its far and away the best value in a universal
for under $500. But I have had a shift of reference, for as inferior as the
578a was to my C222ES on SACD, so is my C222ES to the newer XA2000ES that
Sony has replaced it with. So the standards have elevated. And in a head
to head comparison on SACD, the XA2000ES pretty markedly beats the 578a.
Now the 578's DVD-A, that's another story.

In fact, you may recall I originally brought a Panasonic to the attention of
the RAHE group because of its transparency. At the time it was the only low
priced dVD-A player that had it. But I also commented on its timbral
balance being off...the the Pioneer came along. On DVD-A, it has the
transparency of the Panasonic, and dead-on timbral accuracy. As does the
XA2000ES on SACD. How do I know? I a-b'd them, using the Chesky "Swing
Live" disk which I have in both the DVD-A and SACD version, and which were
cut directly to two different recording/playback technologies from the same
mic feed. With the units level matched, I could discern no difference in
sound. But switch the Pioneer to SACD, and there was a noticeable drying up
of the live ambience of the club. The sound lost it's "aliveness", if you
will.

So, for DVD-A the 578a is a clear winner as I stated earlier.

On CD, it's fair..not terrible, but I've reduced my "rating" a bit from my
earlier assessment...it's just acceptable.

On SACD, my evaluation hasn't changed. Timbre is still good, as are bass
dynamics. But it is dry and fairly lifeless. The competition has just
gotten that much better to the point where the 578a just doesn't show what
SACD can do, even at a low price point.

Harry Lavo wrote:

"RalphH" wrote in message
oups.com...

Harry Lavo wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats, respectively.
Therefore, getting a dedicated player for any of them is risky. There
is
an inexpensive universal DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say
sounds
good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

I was surprised/shocked by this comment Harry as you recommended this
the Pioneer 578A inm a impromptu review on rec.audio.highend dated Sept
14, 2004 calling it "a minor miracle".

Your comments on the SACD playback we

"SACD - acceptably good - converted to PCM and in the process looses a
bit of
transparency...the ambience is drier than either of the above...same
slight
"house sound" .. but to it's credit it "fixes" instruments in space
with
stability that eludes my Sony C222ES "

comments on the CD playback:

"CD - very, very good. Has the Pioneer "house sound" of slightly warm
upper
bass and slightly rolled off deep bass, but very transparent in the
midrange
and very dynamic. Excellent CD sound. "

I bought the unit largely on your recommendation as a 1st step to
developing a SACD collection.

Why the sudden about face?

No about face. I still think its far and away the best value in a universal
for under $500.

A rather limited field, that.



___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority

"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
...
Harry Lavo wrote:

"RalphH" wrote in message
oups.com...

Harry Lavo wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats,
respectively.
Therefore, getting a dedicated player for any of them is risky.
There
is
an inexpensive universal DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say
sounds
good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

I was surprised/shocked by this comment Harry as you recommended this
the Pioneer 578A inm a impromptu review on rec.audio.highend dated Sept
14, 2004 calling it "a minor miracle".

Your comments on the SACD playback we

"SACD - acceptably good - converted to PCM and in the process looses a
bit of
transparency...the ambience is drier than either of the above...same
slight
"house sound" .. but to it's credit it "fixes" instruments in space
with
stability that eludes my Sony C222ES "

comments on the CD playback:

"CD - very, very good. Has the Pioneer "house sound" of slightly warm
upper
bass and slightly rolled off deep bass, but very transparent in the
midrange
and very dynamic. Excellent CD sound. "

I bought the unit largely on your recommendation as a 1st step to
developing a SACD collection.

Why the sudden about face?

No about face. I still think its far and away the best value in a
universal
for under $500.

A rather limited field, that.

Yeah, not too large but it does encompass Pioneer, Samsung, Denon, Onkyo,
and Yamaha.

"fathom" wrote in message
...
"Harry Lavo" wrote in
:


"RalphH" wrote in message
oups.com..
.

Harry Lavo wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


As you know, SACD and DVD-A are dying and dead formats,
respectively. Therefore, getting a dedicated player for
any of them is risky. There is an inexpensive universal
DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that many people say
sounds good:

Pioneer DV-578A-S DVD Player with DVD-Audio / SACD

Great DVD-A, so-so CD, poor SACD. He wants SACD!

I was surprised/shocked by this comment Harry as you
recommended this the Pioneer 578A inm a impromptu review
on rec.audio.highend dated Sept 14, 2004 calling it "a
minor miracle".

Your comments on the SACD playback we

"SACD - acceptably good - converted to PCM and in the
process looses a bit of
transparency...the ambience is drier than either of the
above...same slight "house sound" .. but to it's credit it
"fixes" instruments in space with stability that eludes my
Sony C222ES "

comments on the CD playback:

"CD - very, very good. Has the Pioneer "house sound" of
slightly warm upper bass and slightly rolled off deep
bass, but very transparent in the midrange and very
dynamic. Excellent CD sound. "

I bought the unit largely on your recommendation as a 1st
step to developing a SACD collection.

Why the sudden about face?

No about face. I still think its far and away the best
value in a universal for under $500. But I have had a
shift of reference, for as inferior as the 578a was to my
C222ES on SACD, so is my C222ES to the newer XA2000ES that
Sony has replaced it with. So the standards have elevated.
And in a head to head comparison on SACD, the XA2000ES
pretty markedly beats the 578a. Now the 578's DVD-A, that's
another story.

In fact, you may recall I originally brought a Panasonic to
the attention of the RAHE group because of its
transparency. At the time it was the only low priced dVD-A
player that had it. But I also commented on its timbral
balance being off...the the Pioneer came along. On DVD-A,
it has the transparency of the Panasonic, and dead-on
timbral accuracy. As does the XA2000ES on SACD. How do I
know? I a-b'd them, using the Chesky "Swing Live" disk
which I have in both the DVD-A and SACD version, and which
were cut directly to two different recording/playback
technologies from the same mic feed. With the units level
matched, I could discern no difference in sound. But
switch the Pioneer to SACD, and there was a noticeable
drying up of the live ambience of the club. The sound lost
it's "aliveness", if you will.

So, for DVD-A the 578a is a clear winner as I stated
earlier.

On CD, it's fair..not terrible, but I've reduced my
"rating" a bit from my earlier assessment...it's just
acceptable.

On SACD, my evaluation hasn't changed. Timbre is still
good, as are bass dynamics. But it is dry and fairly
lifeless. The competition has just gotten that much better
to the point where the 578a just doesn't show what SACD can
do, even at a low price point.

Audio Advisor is carrying the newer Pioneer 588a for $129.00
with free shipping. I've had one for a month and I'm quite
pleased with it. It may not compare with Sony's top-line SACD
players, but it sounds as good as my $900 Sony DVP-NS900V.
The DVD-A playback was excellent. It also works very well as
a DVD video player (even plays Divx files as well as mpg, jpg,
mp3).

For the price it's one of the best values in audio. For a guy
who wants to get his feet wet in SACD it's perfect - and he
won't have to mess around with switching 6 wires every time he
wants to go from DVD-A to SACD like he would with 2 separate
players.

I even like the remote and the on-screen menus. Vastly
superior to what you get with most cheap DVD players.

It's really hard to go wrong with the 588a. Even as just a
DVD player, it's a great bargain.


Sounds like it fills the same niche as the 578a did. It (as did the 578a)
simply provide a quality that does not exist elsewhere in low-end
universals. But if it is like the 578a, it will be at it's best on DVD-A
and worst on SACD. Hope they've made progress.