I am already growing weary of constntly buying software that has issues
with other software.

Last year I bought DP 4 to go w/ Pro Tools HD3 on an OSX computer.
No...didn't wanna speak to each other. Tough sh*t...no refund. Buy the
upgrade, son.

Now I have DP 4.5 running on a completely different computer and some
of the software I bought for this one is problematic.

How many times do I get to buy a program and when I recieve it have to
download upgrades? They want full price for these precious items but
cannot be bothered to offer reasonable customer service... like,
say...burning a new disc that is current.

Bought a Fantom XR rack module and DP 4.5 won't recognize the prest
names. Had to search the web to find any help as neither Roland or MOTU
could be bothered to help. "Not our fault" they both said. Took three
days to find help.... from some poor guy that spent the time to do the
work. For nothing.

Oh, yeah... have you ever actually read the various disclaimers these
guys have? Basically they say "tough ****, Sherlock".

Nobody is responsible for ANYTHING any more.

Sick of it. Sick and tired of it.

Rant over....

Guido

Guido wrote:
I am already growing weary of constntly buying software that has
issues
with other software.

Now I have DP 4.5 running on a completely different computer and some
of the software I bought for this one is problematic.

Guido

you have set up the computer for audio and have done the tweaks that
are recommended for this,
things that free the ram for audio ?

dale

Analogue!

Nothing argues with anything in that realm... well, mostly nothing.

But seriously, if these are the issues, you should write the companies and encourage everyone who
has problems similar to yours to do the same with each piece of software that does not function as
it should.

Accountability is a two way street. If we allow them to get away with a policy of "you bought it,
you deal with it", that's how they'll continue to operate. And, if it is applicable, you report them
to the national Better Business Bureau or equivalent in your country. Then you just stop buying that
company's software/hardware and find another company that does things right.

Failing that, well, as I said in the beginning, you can always return to the analogue world. It
really isn't as evil as you think. Besides, recordings sounded just fine before digital when you
took enough care to make a good print when laying down tracks.

--fletch


Guido wrote:
I am already growing weary of constantly buying software that has issues
with other software.

Last year I bought DP 4 to go w/ Pro Tools HD3 on an OSX computer.
No...didn't wanna speak to each other. Tough sh*t...no refund. Buy the
upgrade, son.

Now I have DP 4.5 running on a completely different computer and some
of the software I bought for this one is problematic.

How many times do I get to buy a program and when I recieve it have to
download upgrades? They want full price for these precious items but
cannot be bothered to offer reasonable customer service... like,
say...burning a new disc that is current.

Bought a Fantom XR rack module and DP 4.5 won't recognize the prest
names. Had to search the web to find any help as neither Roland or MOTU
could be bothered to help. "Not our fault" they both said. Took three
days to find help.... from some poor guy that spent the time to do the
work. For nothing.

Oh, yeah... have you ever actually read the various disclaimers these
guys have? Basically they say "tough ****, Sherlock".

Nobody is responsible for ANYTHING any more.

Sick of it. Sick and tired of it.

Rant over....

Guido

"Guido" wrote:

I am already growing weary of constntly buying software that has
issues with other software.



I'm just waiting for Dale to chime in with "Shoulda bought a Mac."

It's really your own damn fault though, Guido. You KNOW that every
developer works with the assumption that her/his application or device
is the ONLY thing running on your machine. You shouldn't have tried to
run another program when you already had one installed. Next thing you
know, you'll want to have more than one USB device attached to your
machine. Are you nuts?

This why I won't buy software without running the demo first (and I hate
having to mess around with demo versions), and I don't install the demo
until I know I'm gonna have to time to work it over but good.

Thanks to you, I will now also make sure to run everything ELSE on the
machine to make sure IT works while the demo is installed.


--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Guido wrote:

Sick of it. Sick and tired of it.

j

How many upgrades did you ever have to download for the MTR90?

/j

ducking, running...

--
ha

Guido wrote:
I am already growing weary of constntly buying software that has
issues
with other software.

Last year I bought DP 4 to go w/ Pro Tools HD3 on an OSX computer.
No...didn't wanna speak to each other. Tough sh*t...no refund. Buy
the
upgrade, son.

Now I have DP 4.5 running on a completely different computer and some
of the software I bought for this one is problematic.

How many times do I get to buy a program and when I recieve it have
to
download upgrades? They want full price for these precious items but
cannot be bothered to offer reasonable customer service... like,
say...burning a new disc that is current.

Bought a Fantom XR rack module and DP 4.5 won't recognize the prest
names. Had to search the web to find any help as neither Roland or
MOTU
could be bothered to help. "Not our fault" they both said. Took three
days to find help.... from some poor guy that spent the time to do
the
work. For nothing.

Oh, yeah... have you ever actually read the various disclaimers these
guys have? Basically they say "tough ****, Sherlock".

Nobody is responsible for ANYTHING any more.

Sick of it. Sick and tired of it.

Rant over....

Guido


This is the way of the whole digital world and not just software.
What's even worse to me is hardware that can only run under command of
software. Means you are stuck with their upgrades or your piece could
become completely obsolete if they go out of biz or decide to ditch
support. I can't imagine buying one of these effects cards or outboard
firewire effects processors because without their plugins, and
purchasing more of them, they don't do a damn thing. So then you are
stuck with buying the software and dependent hardware.

Somewhere the planned obsolescence digital world is going to go totally
bust and those will be some bleak days.


Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

Guido wrote:
I am already growing weary of constntly buying software that has issues
with other software.


Should have kept that Otari...

--
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ



http://www.retromedia.net

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 17:40:44 GMT, "Lorin David Schultz"
wrote:


I'm just waiting for Dale to chime in with "Shoulda bought a Mac."

Something else runs OSX? This IS a Mac :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

Laurence Payne wrote:

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote:

I'm just waiting for Dale to chime in with "Shoulda bought a Mac."

Something else runs OSX? This IS a Mac :-)

I just read the Onyx FW installation instructions. For XP it's a little
over eight pages; for OSX it's not quite two pages. This seems typical.
I recall reading something similar where the ratio was even more
extreme, 30 pages for the Windows team, and almost one whole page for
the macsters.

There is at least one better thing for Onyx FW in XP, though, and that's
that you can run more than one Onyx. OSX Core Audio is still messed up
in that regard, though MOTU worked around it to get multiple MOTU
interfaces running under OSX. Hopefully 10.4.xxxx will fix that. But
maybe not.

--
ha

In article .com writes:

How many times do I get to buy a program and when I recieve it have to
download upgrades? They want full price for these precious items but
cannot be bothered to offer reasonable customer service... like,
say...burning a new disc that is current.

Well, you know what they say about software - it's easy to change and
easy to update. So they make as many boxes as they figure they'll sell
in a reasonable amount of time, make up a CD for each one, and seal
'em up. Who knows how long your box was sitting on the shelf?

Oh, yeah... have you ever actually read the various disclaimers these
guys have? Basically they say "tough ****, Sherlock".

Nobody is responsible for ANYTHING any more.

Yup, and yup.

Sick of it. Sick and tired of it.

Shouldn't have sold your analog hardware. g

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Laurence Payne" wrote:

Something else runs OSX? This IS a Mac :-)



It's a joke, son. You'll get it about the time you hit the parking
lot...

It's based on Dale telling everyone who ever reports a problem with a
Windows machine that they "shoulda bought a Mac..." as if to imply that
Macs are somehow immune to this sorta thing. The humour was in the idea
of him seeing the software conflict and jerking his knee.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

"hank alrich" wrote:

Hopefully 10.4.xxxx will fix that.


It might, but it will break two other things that were working before.

I keep hearing horror stories from our engineers about how a certain
feature will work with 10.2.3 or earlier, but NOT later versions (it no
longer works if you go to 10.2.4). This would be fine, except that
implementing another function requires that you skip 10.2.4 and go to
service release 10.3.xxx (which, of course, then renders the first
feature inoperable). All of this could be resolved by buying the latest
version of Pro Tools, but that requires version 10.4.xxx and apparently
that OS version won't work on our three-year-old G4. Oy.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Want to get involved ?
Here's the best way:

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/about/

Join in and help develop the software !
By the way when you do, have the the program
use a standardized file format like .wav
instead of some proprietary filetype
like the .au ... yuck.

rd

It's based on Dale telling everyone who ever reports a problem with a
Windows machine that they "shoulda bought a Mac..." as if to imply
that
Macs are somehow immune to this sorta thing. The humour was in the
idea
of him seeing the software conflict and jerking his knee.

ha ha, I had to erase the audio partition on my pbook and reinstall
10.2
spark xl lost some functionality and stability with 10.3
and at least once ayear I erase the hd and reinstall everything
I have a lot less problems this way
every computer needs to be set up and managed
my dell lap top included (plextools is windows only)

of course having to clean and demagnitize the tape path, calibrate,
align and rebias the record and playback heads is a pain, and then
doing tape splices with a razor blade can become a bloody experience.

but it is fun to read someone who builds themselves a super computer
and then installs everything and finds that what they did is all wrong.

do your research and get the right tool, read the manuals and pdf's
set the mother up as per the recomendations, operator error is the
biggest problem.

dale

"Guido" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am already growing weary of constntly buying software that has issues
with other software.
Snippage

Yup, I've had a couple instances of this same kinda thing - luckily only a
couple. About all you can do is ask around on the various user forums before
you buy a particular app or plugin & try to get a heads-up on any possible
issues beforehand.

Neil Henderson

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Guido

I am already growing weary of constntly buying software that has issues
with other software.

Yep... genius move to sell that RADAR wasn't it... [not]

Yep... genius move to sell that RADAR wasn't it... [not]


Actually still have the Radar.

Just bitching about Macs/audio BS in general. It seems so scam-like to
me.

Again... I wish I could run my business like I don't give a **** about
the end user.

Buuutttt.... I gotta "fit in", don't I? I didn't wanna sell the Otari
but had to before it was worth $50.

And, gee whiz.... I want so much to interface with all this wonderful
music down here. Not.

Guido

In article ZGfVd.34108$hN1.18293@clgrps13,
"Lorin David Schultz" wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote:

Hopefully 10.4.xxxx will fix that.


It might, but it will break two other things that were working before.

I keep hearing horror stories from our engineers about how a certain
feature will work with 10.2.3 or earlier, but NOT later versions (it no
longer works if you go to 10.2.4). This would be fine, except that
implementing another function requires that you skip 10.2.4 and go to
service release 10.3.xxx (which, of course, then renders the first
feature inoperable). All of this could be resolved by buying the latest
version of Pro Tools, but that requires version 10.4.xxx and apparently
that OS version won't work on our three-year-old G4. Oy.


Don't get me started! We have one ProTools HD system, 2 MIX+ systems, and 2
002s to maintain on various G4. We also use networked Macs. Once a system is
stable I tend to leave it alone until something absolutely requires an upgrade
and then we pretty much have to start from scratch on each machine. The last
big thrash was to install ProTools 6.4 to allow networked users not given
administrator privileges to run ProTools. For some reason, now I can't run
ProTools from my account but everyone elses' work.

Once stable, however, the software/hardware is reliable. You just have to
struggle until it gets there.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote:

Hopefully 10.4.xxxx will fix that.

It might, but it will break two other things that were working before.

I keep hearing horror stories from our engineers about how a certain
feature will work with 10.2.3 or earlier, but NOT later versions (it no
longer works if you go to 10.2.4). This would be fine, except that
implementing another function requires that you skip 10.2.4 and go to
service release 10.3.xxx (which, of course, then renders the first
feature inoperable). All of this could be resolved by buying the latest
version of Pro Tools, but that requires version 10.4.xxx and apparently
that OS version won't work on our three-year-old G4. Oy.

Absolutely right, Lorin. And that's one of the things that has kept me
from making OSX my main OS. With this dialup I don't fancy needing to
repeatedly download 20-30 MB "upgrades and remedies" for OSX. I've been
running OS9.2.2 for over two years, and nothing is broken, I am
prevented from doing ntohing I need to do, and the whole thing is pretty
danged stable.

FWIW I have somehow avoided the whole "Mac OS's prior to OSX have always
been unstable" thing. I think it's partly because I am not driven to try
to fix what's not broken, partly because I don't alter my setups that
often, and partly because when I first got into Sound Designer II and
the AMII card I had to learn how to eliminate stuff that wasn't needed
for the audio work, which led me to do the same for all my regular-use
rigs, too. I also don't chase all over the 'net trying this and that
just for kicks and barfs. I also skipped some versions of the Mac OS
that weren't the finest. We went from 7.1.2 to 7.6.1, stayed there for
_years_, went momentarily to 8.6 when shortly thereafter we got new Macs
and 9.2 was upon us.

All this said, I do appreciate what OSX offers when it's not broken, and
I now have one Mac loaded with it for personal education. Lanis' store
will run on OSX, and the MIO Console has a beta Recording Panel that
streams SDII files to/from HD without an intermediary DAW app. That's my
mind of recording, and in fact, I'm looking forward to actually mixing
some small projects that way. The MH plugs for the 2882+DSP are really
pretty good, I won't need automated changes of anything, and will get to
stereo by sending AES or SPDIF to the L2 where I'lkl dither to 16 bits.

One other aspect of the OS change is that I clearly see how those who
can fix the real disasters without having to reload _everything_ as
folks who have at least a basic understanding of the underlying Unix. I
read thousands of pages, literally, to become our own reliable Mac
support, and I envision needing to do that all over again, in good time.

--
ha

In article .com writes:

of course having to clean and demagnitize the tape path, calibrate,
align and rebias the record and playback heads is a pain, and then
doing tape splices with a razor blade can become a bloody experience.

Well, that's all straightforward stuff, and once you know what to
adjust, it's the same on ever tape deck ever built (OK, so there are a
few variations and sometimes adjustments are missing) but alignment is
easy and it always works, and unless you do it wrong you aren't going
to break something else in the process. You don't rebias a play head.
And splicing with a razor blade builds character, and confidence.

do your research and get the right tool, read the manuals and pdf's
set the mother up as per the recomendations, operator error is the
biggest problem.

The problem is that the recommendations are always for something other
than what you have. The only way to assure that two computers are the
same (and behave the same) is to build both of them yourself. And even
then, you can't be absolutely sure. Windows (and quite possibly Mac
OS) doesn't always install itself the same way every time.

If it's got a CPU in it, it's going to screw you sometime, and in a
way that you can't easily diagnose. Get used to it or get rid of it.
(most people prefer the former)

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo