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#1
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
Hi to all,
Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. So I went home pulled 4 x 4ft Roxul rock wool fiber (4 in thick) and placed it between the loudspeakers to see what's the effect it going be. It was extending 2 feet front and back from the center of spearing the left and right speakers completely. Sitting position is about 8.5 ft. I hope you guys give your opinion what the rock wool is going to do the sound before I post my observation. I know the golden rule is there shouldn't be anything in between loudspeakers but in this case the roxul wool is 4 in thick and have good absorption over wide range of frequencies. Thanks ST |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
ST wrote:
Hi to all, Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash, you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers. Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear in your car) is not anything like what you think it is. -- +--------------------------------+ + Dick Pierce | + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+ |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 2, 4:55*am, Dick Pierce wrote:
ST wrote: Hi to all, Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash, you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers. Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear in your car) is not anything like what you think it is. -- +--------------------------------+ + * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *| + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+ Hi, Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the speakers located. Regarding my experiment - I used Roger Waters -Amused to Death, Track 8 - Too much rope. Rgds, ST |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
ST wrote:
On Aug 2, 4:55 am, Dick Pierce wrote: ST wrote: Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash, you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers. Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the speakers located. And how did you "turn the tweeters off?" -- +--------------------------------+ + Dick Pierce | + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+ |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 2, 12:33*am, ST wrote:
On Aug 2, 4:55*am, Dick Pierce wrote: ST wrote: Hi to all, Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash, you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers. Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear in your car) is not anything like what you think it is. -- +--------------------------------+ + * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *| + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+ Hi, Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the speakers located. Regarding my experiment - I used Roger Waters -Amused to Death, Track 8 - Too much rope. Since the proximity and relections with respect to your listening room's boundaries, as well as its volume are nothing like you car's, isn't your experiment somewhat meaningless regardless of its outcome? Norman |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 2, 11:23*pm, Dick Pierce wrote:
ST wrote: On Aug 2, 4:55 am, Dick Pierce wrote: ST wrote: Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash, you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers. Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the speakers located. And how did you "turn the tweeters off?" -- +--------------------------------+ + * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *| + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+ From source to electronic crossover and then split to mid, sub and tweeter Amp. You can turn off at crossover or at the Tweeter's Amp. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
I wouldn't say meaningless but impractical, yes. No one wants to see a
4 inch panel protruding two feet to the front in the center of the room. I think it helps for better separation and localisation of sound . I know Track 8 the sleigh comes from my BACK and goes to left and right with consistent volume. Previously it was coming in front of me as described by http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue18/waters.htm . It was just an experiment and I thought people with acoustic engineering, sound recording engineers or similar background may want to give their input. I am hearing a difference and for now I am confining to Track 8 -Too much Rope. Regards, ST On Aug 3, 12:14*am, Norman Schwartz wrote: On Aug 2, 12:33*am, ST wrote: On Aug 2, 4:55*am, Dick Pierce wrote: ST wrote: Hi to all, Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash, you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers. Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear in your car) is not anything like what you think it is. -- +--------------------------------+ + * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *| + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+ Hi, Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the speakers located. Regarding my experiment - I used Roger Waters -Amused to Death, Track 8 - Too much rope. Since the proximity and relections with respect to your listening room's boundaries, as well as its *volume are nothing like you car's, isn't your experiment somewhat meaningless regardless of its outcome? Norman |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 3, 6:35*pm, ST wrote:
I wouldn't say meaningless but impractical, yes. No one wants to see a 4 inch panel protruding two feet to the front in the center of the room. I think it helps for better separation and localisation of sound . I know Track 8 the sleigh comes from my BACK and goes to left and right with consistent volume. Previously it was coming in front of me as described byhttp://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue18/waters.htm. It was just an experiment and I thought people with acoustic engineering, sound recording engineers or similar background may want to give their input. I am hearing a difference and for now I am confining to Track 8 -Too much Rope. Regards, ST On Aug 3, 12:14*am, Norman Schwartz wrote: On Aug 2, 12:33*am, ST wrote: On Aug 2, 4:55*am, Dick Pierce wrote: ST wrote: Hi to all, Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash, you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers. Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear in your car) is not anything like what you think it is. -- +--------------------------------+ + * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *| + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+ Hi, Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the speakers located. Regarding my experiment - I used Roger Waters -Amused to Death, Track 8 - Too much rope. Since the proximity and relections with respect to your listening room's boundaries, as well as its *volume are nothing like you car's, isn't your experiment somewhat meaningless regardless of its outcome? Norman Correction - I meant to say it comes closer to face right from left much FORWARD from the speaker with consistent volume. (Ignore - I know Track 8 the sleigh comes from my BACK and goes to left and right with consistent volume. Sorry, Thanks |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
ST wrote:
Norman Schwartz wrote: Since the proximity and relections with respect to your listening room's boundaries, as well as its volume are nothing like you car's, isn't your experiment somewhat meaningless regardless of its outcome? I wouldn't say meaningless but impractical, yes. No, meaningless would be the appropriate word here. You're changing one variable concisouly and ignoring many, many other variables, any one of which is probably going to have a MUCH bigger influence than the one you are changing. You have a WILDLY different acoustic environment in eahc case, and you say that the only thing that's constant is the track you're listening to and you ears, and every acoustic expert is quite familiar with how consistently inconstant any given pair of ears is. A not-so-far-fetched analogy is to assume that since the imaging you get from headphones is very different than from speakers, you can get the speakers to image like headphones by stiocking a skull in between them. -- +--------------------------------+ + Dick Pierce | + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+ |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
Please forgive the top-posting. Please note the interpolations:
On Aug 1, 10:34*am, ST wrote: Hi to all, Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. Well - consider how noisy an environment your car is most of the time. Between wind, engine, transmission, heating and cooling, tire-noise, vibration and so forth - even in a Rolls-Royce - a vehicle is rife with 'background' noise at the very least. Then, consider the volume - the entire cockpit in your vehicle is smaller than most bathrooms and many closets. Then, consider speaker placement - usually more-than-two in any but the most basic systems - and as many as eight or ten even in modest factory systems. So with a lot of speaker-drivers in a very small space with lots of ambient noise, it is quite likely that you may not be able to pick out any individual speaker from that lot. Speakers don't need to 'see' each other. Nor do you need to 'see' them. There are issues with speaker grills or grill cloth and acoustic transparency, but those are well understood and taken into account. So I went home pulled 4 x 4ft *Roxul rock wool fiber (4 in thick) and placed it between the loudspeakers to see what's the effect it going be. Why you would expose yourself to that material and for that reason passeth understanding. But apart from the wisdom of introducing rock- wool into your living environment without protection, all it will do in any case is cut off the highs. It will do nothing below about 1,000 hz or so, depending on its density. It was extending 2 feet front and back from the center of spearing the left and right speakers completely. Sitting position is about 8.5 ft. Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand what you are writing, the insulation goes from floor-to-ceiling, and is about 5 feet wide, assuming the speakers are about 12" deep, and the speakers themselves are at least two feet from the wall. (Aside: If these are conventional speakers with conventional drivers and not planars or other unconventional designs this sort of placement could be problematic). I hope you guys give your opinion what the rock wool is going to do the sound before I post my observation. I know the golden rule is there shouldn't be anything in between loudspeakers but in this case the roxul wool is 4 in thick and have good absorption over wide range of frequencies. Depending on the design of your speakers, at best it will do very little - certainly not a whole lot with the low end, and the only conceivable effect it could have would be on the high end. At worst, you will get the effect of having your speakers far too far apart - essentially two point-sources vs. a blend in the middle with spatial information properly spread across them. Opinion: Good speakers DO disappear. If they are properly placed and properly amplified (sufficient power that they do not clip at a meaningful volume) and with good signal - sitting in the general 'sweet spot' with your eyes closed, you should not be able to point out either speaker exactly. Individual instruments or voices, with well-recorded souces, certainly. But the speakers, not so much. Note also that the better the speakers, the 'larger' that sweet spot will be. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 1, 10:34*am, ST wrote:
Hi to all, Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. So I went home pulled 4 x 4ft *Roxul rock wool fiber (4 in thick) and placed it between the loudspeakers to see what's the effect it going be. It was extending 2 feet front and back from the center of spearing the left and right speakers completely. Sitting position is about 8.5 ft. I hope you guys give your opinion what the rock wool is going to do the sound before I post my observation. I know the golden rule is there shouldn't be anything in between loudspeakers but in this case the roxul wool is 4 in thick and have good absorption over wide range of frequencies. Thanks I don't know what you hear, but adding acoustic padding inside a vehicle is something that is needed and few do. greg |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 3, 10:59*pm, Dick Pierce wrote:
snipped for brevity No, meaningless would be the appropriate word here. You're changing one variable concisouly and ignoring many, many other variables, any one of which is probably going to have a MUCH bigger influence than the one you are changing. You have a WILDLY different acoustic environment in eahc case, and you say that the only thing that's constant is the track you're listening to and you ears, and every acoustic expert is quite familiar with how consistently inconstant any given pair of ears is. I have to agree with this. Sometimes our brain dictates what and where we hear the sound coming from. In the past 3 days, I think my own perception of the likely/anticipated outcome somewhat influenced the real changes. A not-so-far-fetched analogy is to assume that since the imaging you get from headphones is very different than from speakers, you can get the speakers to image like headphones by stiocking a skull in between them. LOL....Soon some tweaks may emerge from your suggestion. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 4, 5:42*am, " wrote:
Peter wrote:- snipped for brevity Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand what you are writing, the insulation goes from floor-to-ceiling, and is about 5 feet wide, assuming the speakers are about 12" deep, and the speakers themselves are at least two feet from the wall. (Aside: If these are conventional speakers with conventional drivers and not planars or other unconventional designs this sort of placement could be problematic). It was 4 x 4 ft with the thickness of 4 inch. The were placed in between the two loudspeakers dividing them left and right symmetrically . The only part visible to me is the 4 inch thick rockwool standing 4 ft tall in between the 2 loudspeakers in the centre. However, as suggested here I did have have significant loss of high frequencies. Guess, Norman was right - meaningless. Thanks, guys. ST [ extra quoting snipped --dsr ] |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 4, 5:42*am, " wrote:
Please forgive the top-posting. Please note the interpolations: On Aug 1, 10:34*am, ST wrote: Hi to all, Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet in front of me. Well - consider how noisy an environment your car is most of the time. Between wind, engine, transmission, heating and cooling, tire-noise, vibration and so forth - even in a Rolls-Royce - a vehicle is rife with 'background' noise at the very least. Then, consider the volume - the entire cockpit in your vehicle is smaller than most bathrooms and many closets. Then, consider speaker placement - usually more-than-two in any but the most basic systems - and as many as eight or ten even in modest factory systems. So with a lot of speaker-drivers in a very small space with lots of ambient noise, it is quite likely that you may not be able to pick out any individual speaker from that lot. Speakers don't need to 'see' each other. Nor do you need to 'see' them. There are issues with speaker grills or grill cloth and acoustic transparency, but those are well understood and taken into account. So I went home pulled 4 x 4ft *Roxul rock wool fiber (4 in thick) and placed it between the loudspeakers to see what's the effect it going be. Why you would expose yourself to that material and for that reason passeth understanding. But apart from the wisdom of introducing rock- wool into your living environment without protection, all it will do in any case is cut off the highs. It will do nothing below about 1,000 hz or so, depending on its density. It was extending 2 feet front and back from the center of spearing the left and right speakers completely. Sitting position is about 8.5 ft. Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand what you are writing, the insulation goes from floor-to-ceiling, and is about 5 feet wide, assuming the speakers are about 12" deep, and the speakers themselves are at least two feet from the wall. (Aside: If these are conventional speakers with conventional drivers and not planars or other unconventional designs this sort of placement could be problematic). I hope you guys give your opinion what the rock wool is going to do the sound before I post my observation. I know the golden rule is there shouldn't be anything in between loudspeakers but in this case the roxul wool is 4 in thick and have good absorption over wide range of frequencies. Depending on the design of your speakers, at best it will do very little - certainly not a whole lot with the low end, and the only conceivable effect it could have would be on the high end. At worst, you will get the effect of having your speakers far too far apart - essentially two point-sources vs. a blend in the middle with spatial information properly spread across them. Opinion: Good speakers DO disappear. If they are properly placed and properly amplified (sufficient power that they do not clip at a meaningful volume) and with good signal - sitting in the general 'sweet spot' with your eyes closed, you should not be able to point out either speaker exactly. Individual instruments or voices, with well-recorded souces, certainly. But the speakers, not so much. Note also that the better the speakers, the 'larger' that sweet spot will be. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Maybe, this will give you a better picture.. This is the top view of the placement of speakers , rockwool, subwoofer and sitting position. B= room border, R = rockwool, SUB= subwoofer, S=sitting position Top view BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB B R B B L R L B B R B BSUB B B B B S B B B B B BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB Front view BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB B B B B B R B B L R L B B L R L B BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
Your idea reminds me of the Ambiophonics approach that has been in
development for years now. It started with a physical "trap" between speakers but now has an electronic analog of same. The "trap" is only part of an entire approach which consists of several parts. I have adopted many ideas he uses to good effect, absent the "trap" by using other of the parts, which he suggests one can do. http://www.ambiophonics.org/ |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
Didn't Polk try something similar with their SDA series?
Rick wrote in message ... Your idea reminds me of the Ambiophonics approach that has been in development for years now. It started with a physical "trap" between speakers but now has an electronic analog of same. The "trap" is only part of an entire approach which consists of several parts. I have adopted many ideas he uses to good effect, absent the "trap" by using other of the parts, which he suggests one can do. http://www.ambiophonics.org/ |
#17
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 7, 3:42*am, "Rick" wrote:
Didn't Polk try something similar with their SDA series? wrote in message ... Your idea reminds me of the Ambiophonics approach that has been in development for years now. *It started with a physical "trap" between speakers but now has an electronic analog of same. *The "trap" is only part of an entire approach which consists of several parts. I have adopted many ideas he uses to good effect, absent the "trap" by using other of the parts, which he suggests one can do. http://www.ambiophonics.org/ After 8 years I am finally getting ATD to sound as exactly as described in terms of imaging, I think it is worth a try but only if the room is moderately small. IMHO only Rgds, ST |
#18
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Listening Area Choice
This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of
the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions. For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making the space otherwise unlivable. So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'? Why? If not, why not? And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you have made - that is even better. Thanks in advance! Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Listening Area Choice
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#20
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Listening Area Choice
On Aug 10, 6:02*am, " wrote:
This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions. For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. Selfish? - only if you are taking away the space from the rest of the family. In my country, many do not have the space or a good distance from the house next door. For years I was playing in my common area of my home but only at moderate level. And usually, I lower the volume to normal at 10 00pm so that I do not disturb the neighbours. And sub woofer was practically silenced so that no one get to hear the irritating "boom" "boom" "boom". Unfortunately, I can't say the same about others who happily play their HT where the bass will be bothering me (it bothers me more than the rest of my family, perhaps I am more sensitive to deep bass?) and disturbs my listening session. So now with a dedicated room, with good sound proofing, I have the freedom to push the volume to more realistic level and play at any time without the need to worry about police knocking on to your door. There is absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making the space otherwise unlivable. Yes, possible. I have 3 systems at home. but see above for why a dedicated room. And my dedicated room definitely sounds so much better because the freedom I can have to put arrange, rearrange, hang and what not till I get the best desirable sound without the need to get wife's approval. So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'? Why? If not, why not? And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you have made - that is even better. As I have mentioned above, the good thing about dedicated room is the freedom to you to enjoy your music without being bothered by outside interference and most importantly I can enjoy my love without imposing on others. For me, I don't believe spending a few thousand dollars on some High Fi racks. Most of mine staked on granite on whatever solid wood rack cabinet I can find. Didn't bother to hide the cables or need to be brand conscious about using cheap cables etc etc. But the truth, I enjoyed when I play the music in common area because it gave me a sense of freedom and space. Every audiophile dream is to probably to put it where it is accessible and enjoyed by many. Why would one want to hide their B&W nautilus in a small room? Just my humble opinion. Regards, ST |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Listening Area Choice
For many years I have made my living room into my listening room.
Partly this was a conscious choice as the accoutrements of my life (books, records, shelving, carpets, furniture, etc) all are an essential part of my listening--if only for their sound properties when properly distributed around the room. No TV in this room--sitting, conversation, music only. Greg In article , " wrote: This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions. For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making the space otherwise unlivable. So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'? Why? If not, why not? And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you have made - that is even better. Thanks in advance! Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Listening Area Choice
On Aug 9, 6:02*pm, " wrote:
This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions. For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making the space otherwise unlivable. So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'? Why? If not, why not? And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you have made - that is even better. Thanks in advance! Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA My living room holds a system for music, movies, and a little TV, plus a piano and a desk. The listening area doubles a conversation area. My office holds a system for music. Like you, I could probalbly come up with a better, and quieter listening area, but I like the opportunities to share and socialize, and the fact that I can get up and walk to the kitchen without totally losing the thread of the music. The living room was particularly challenging because it was excessively live for multi-channel and, worse, is part of a nearly U- shaped area with each dimension close to 25 feet. I looked into various accoustical treatments for the area, and simply couldn't find anything acceptable from a financial or a decor standpoint, let alone both. I finally decided that a Denon reciver and muli-player connected by their proprietary link which allows the digital equalization to work on high end media such as SACD and DVD-A was the best compromise. I'm sure the purists will despise this arrangement, but it makes a bad room very listenable. In fact, it makes it suitable for both stereo and multichannel with one setting which only evens out the immediate frequency response, and another which cuts the ringing frequencies for multichannel. The system produces very good stereo and 5-channel images. The final issue was the huge standing wave just below 50hz. I spent hours shoving the subwoofer around trying and failing to find a spot that worked, finally choosing bad over worse. Again, my solution was equalization. I bought a good digital equalizer, with notch filters, on the cheap because it had 48K sampling, perfectly fine for frequencies below 100HZ and the new ones were coming out at 96K. Using this between my receiver and the sub took care of most of the problem though once in a while sustained LFE at the critical frequency can be far more intense than was intended in the production. This system has been in place for 7 years and I am still happy with it, which, I guess, proves I'm not really an audiophile. I don't think my wife understands the effort and expense, but she has a good ear, and I notice she joins me in listening more than before I fixed things up. My system at the office was a lot easier, since to keep the levels acceptable for both me and others, I had to have the speakers close. The main innovation was to build a shelf elevating my computer monitors off my table, so that I could put the center channel under them. The front 3 are small NHT Superaudios which seem to work fine as close monitors, but I use micros for surrounds because of space limitations. I also bought a cheap 10" subwoofer, and packed the sound column with polyfill. Packing it cleaned it up a great deal and still left enough output to give music plenty of bottom from under my table. Fred. |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Trap in between two loudspeakers
On Aug 4, 5:42*am, " wrote:
Rest snipped for brevity .... Why you would expose yourself to that material and for that reason passeth understanding. But apart from the wisdom of introducing rock- wool into your living environment without protection, all it will do in any case is cut off the highs. It will do nothing below about 1,000 hz or so, depending on its density. You really got me worried there. Did some checks and Roxul referred me to this http://www.rockwool.com/files/rockwo..._release_1.pdf and I have sealed them with a fine cloth for double protection. Regarding the technical aspect of sound absorption. the data I was provided is as follows:- Acoustical Performance ASTM C423 CO-EFFICIENTS AT FREQUENCIES Thickness 125 Hz 250 Hz 500 Hz 1000 Hz 2000 Hz 4000 Hz NRC 1.0” 0.11 0.31 0.82 1.01 1.02 1.01 0.80 1.5” 0.21 0.64 0.92 1.00 0.95 1.01 0.90 2.0” 0.43 0.78 0.90 0.97 0.97 1.00 0.90 3.0” 0.75 0.82 0.89 0.94 1.00 1.00 0.90 Please note my Roxul is 4" thick. ST |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Listening Area Choice
For many years I have made my living room into my listening room.
Partly this was a conscious choice as the accoutrements of my life (books, records, shelving, carpets, furniture, etc) all are an essential part of my listening--if only for their sound properties when properly distributed around the room. No TV in this room--sitting, conversation, music only. Greg In article , " wrote: This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions. For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making the space otherwise unlivable. So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'? Why? If not, why not? And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you have made - that is even better. Thanks in advance! Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Listening Area Choice
On Aug 9, 3:02*pm, " wrote:
This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions. For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making the space otherwise unlivable. So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'? I do. Why? Because the room is one of the most important components of a playback system and the means by which one makes the most of such a room in my case requires that it serve one primary function. It allows me to do what I wish without worry of alternative usage. If not, why not? And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you have made - that is even better. I'm not sure what you mean by "achieve?" It was a simple choice so I suppose I achieved in when we chose this house. It was a requisit to have a room I could use as a dedicated listening room when we were house shopping. I will soon be moving again and it will again be a requisit. This time I am going to be even more demanding of size. |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Listening Area Choice
So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'?
Why? If not, why not? Yes, I have a dedicated listening room. Actually, the room (about 15' x 28') has two purposes: a artist's studio for painting, and a listening room. Why? No one else likes classical music as I do. This room allows me to listen to what I want when I want. It also keeps paint fumes away from the rest of the house. Because my easel is set up at one end under a skylight, surround sound has not been attempted. I have added several layers of used carpeting on the floor and 32 sq. ft. of sound conditioning on the wall and ceilings to defeat the most obvious reflecting surfaces. The room sounds pretty good, and--if I were truly dedicated about it--could be further improved since there are no decor limitations. Best wishes, Ed Presson |
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