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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
The son of one of my dear friends is in his 2nd year of film school at NYU. I remember when he was making home movies, meticulously setting up each shot, when he was 11 years old with a cheap home camcorder. he is doing some great work, and he is very technically minded with his video stuff, but, like many video people I meet, sort of misses the mark on the audio side. I quizzed him, and he has taken a sound for video class and understands very well the concepts behind capturing sound and dialog and mating it up with the video, but doesn't know much in way of the gear to use and how to set it up.
This started because I saw him a few weeks ago and he asked about a microphone to plug into his camera to get better sound for interviews and such. His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe undefeatable.. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the shoe is going to capture that as well. for this little interview thing he was doing, I had him use my little zoom Q3 (not ideal, but all I had with me and MUCh better than the onboard audio) in audio mode and I dumped the files on his laptop. for that project it was just fine. But it got me thinking about a good kit for him. His birthday is next week so I want to set him up with something nice. I was thinking about a tascam dr40 (it's cheaper than the zoom h4 but still has regular mic inputs, not minis), an inexpensive hypercardioid, an inexpensive shotgun and a wired lav. and a set of headphones. that should be enough stuff to get him started, right? and not terribly expensive but still would yield better results than he's getting. what do you think of this? any suggestions on a better kit or anything I'm missing? I don't know much about sound for picture, I'm just using my regular audio knowledge and trying to fill in the gaps with common sense and logic.... thanks! |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
"Nate Najar" wrote in message
news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18... The son of one of my dear friends is in his 2nd year of film school at NYU. I remember when he was making home movies, meticulously setting up each shot, when he was 11 years old with a cheap home camcorder. he is doing some great work, and he is very technically minded with his video stuff, but, like many video people I meet, sort of misses the mark on the audio side. I quizzed him, and he has taken a sound for video class and understands very well the concepts behind capturing sound and dialog and mating it up with the video, but doesn't know much in way of the gear to use and how to set it up. This started because I saw him a few weeks ago and he asked about a microphone to plug into his camera to get better sound for interviews and such. His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the shoe is going to capture that as well. for this little interview thing he was doing, I had him use my little zoom Q3 (not ideal, but all I had with me and MUCh better than the onboard audio) in audio mode and I dumped the files on his laptop. for that project it was just fine. But it got me thinking about a good kit for him. His birthday is next week so I want to set him up with something nice. I was thinking about a tascam dr40 (it's cheaper than the zoom h4 but still has regular mic inputs, not minis), an inexpensive hypercardioid, an inexpensive shotgun and a wired lav. and a set of headphones. that should be enough stuff to get him started, right? and not terribly expensive but still would yield better results than he's getting. what do you think of this? any suggestions on a better kit or anything I'm missing? I don't know much about sound for picture, I'm just using my regular audio knowledge and trying to fill in the gaps with common sense and logic.... thanks! You're on the right track. A super cardioid (Schoeps term that may be the same thing as a hyper cardioid;-) is what most location mixers use for interviews and interiors. And, for exteriors, too, if you don't need the reach of a shotgun. I'd opt for a better super cardioid and let the shotgun part of the kit come later. The Oktava MC012 is often recommended as a budget replacement for the Schoeps MK41 that many, many professionals use. Scott Dorsey has a mod that makes the MC012 even better. I've heard one without the mod; it sounded very good. Very usable off-axis rejection, too. Rode makes respected super cardiods, too. I don't have personal experience with portable audio recorders, so take this for what it is..... Synch with camera audio is the issue here. A video editor I've worked with for years whose opinions I trust often uses a Zoom H2 ("because I have it", he says) and finds that it drifts from camera audio after some period of time.... after 30 minutes or so of running time is how I believe he related the experience. He does a lot of festival rock groups. He says he's able to make it work with a little editing pixie dust. The Sony MDR 7506 is probably the most commonly found headphones for location work. A bit hyped in frequency response, but they are listenable and show up bad stuff well, which is good. No strong opinion on the wired lav. If you have a budget to meet, for all of these items, except the headphones, I'd personally opt for used better quality rather than paying retail for lesser new stuff. Audio houses that cater to location sound guys almost always have used equipment and consignment goods. You could feel safe with Trew Audio among others. I suspect they would recommend a creditable system to meet your budget. You should also pose your question on newsgroup rec.arts.movies.production.sound. The people that hang out there, even though the traffic is not what it used to be, are people who make a living doing sound for picture. Steve King |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
Nate Najar wrote:
I was thinking about a tascam dr40 (it's cheaper than the zoom h4 but still= has regular mic inputs, not minis), an inexpensive hypercardioid, an inexp= ensive shotgun and a wired lav. and a set of headphones. that should be e= nough stuff to get him started, right? and not terribly expensive but stil= l would yield better results than he's getting. Skip the cheap shotgun... you really don't want anything lower end than a 416, really. Use a hypercardioid for everything until you can get a good shotgun. If the DR-40 has proper P48 phantom power, try the Oktava 012 with the hypercardioid capsule. It's kind of wide, but it's about as tight as you will get in that price range, and it's pretty clean. Try a used Countryman Isomax II lav. They are kind of large, but they sound good. Don't forget the boom... and I am sorry to say that you get what you pay for with a boom too... the new lighter carbon fibre ones are amazingly better than the old bamboo poles we used when I was younger, but they are also way more money. Don't forget cables either... cables always seem to run into more money than you ever expect. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
"Nate Najar" wrote in message news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18... His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the shoe is going to capture that as well. Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from? Trevor. |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
"Trevor" wrote in message
... Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from? Auto-focusing? |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:55:52 -0500, Trevor wrote
(in article ): "Nate Najar" wrote in message news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18... His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the shoe is going to capture that as well. Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from? Trevor. You'd think a mic that s on a suspension mount might be better, but if the zoom and/or autofocus are truly noisy, there's not much you can do. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
In article , Trevor wrote:
"Nate Najar" wrote in message news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18... His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the shoe is going to capture that as well. Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from? It's typical of the whole on-camera-mike thing. Every time you focus the lens, every time you make a camera movement, touching the camera body conducts noise into the mike. And then they bring the files into the post house and expect the sound post guys to magically make the noise go away.... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... "Trevor" wrote in message ... Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from? Auto-focusing? Continuous auto focussing doesn't work on a 7D while doing video. Trevor. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
"Ty Ford" wrote in message al.NET... On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:55:52 -0500, Trevor wrote (in article ): "Nate Najar" wrote in message news:16223273.360.1322520446320.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlh18... His camera is a canon 7d I think. It has AGC that is i believe undefeatable. and the camera has so much mechanical noise, any mic on the shoe is going to capture that as well. Plugging an external mic into a 7D is a waste of time agreed, but I'm puzzled where this "so much mechanical noise" is coming from? You'd think a mic that s on a suspension mount might be better, but if the zoom and/or autofocus are truly noisy, there's not much you can do. No motorised zoom or continuous auto focussing on a 7D while doing video to create noise. Of course the camera operator may be "mechanically noisy" I guess :-) Trevor. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
On Thursday, December 1, 2011 11:20:05 PM UTC-5, Trevor wrote:
No motorised zoom or continuous auto focussing on a 7D while doing video to create noise. Of course the camera operator may be "mechanically noisy" I guess :-) Trevor. well I don't really know. I haven't used the thing. but he told me when he had used mics on the shoe they would pick up camera noise, so I relayed that information. I ended up buying him an isomax lav, a tascam dr40, a few cables and I gave him my THE hypercardioid. and some sony mdr7506's. he can get his own boom, but this should at least get him started.... N |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
Thank you everyone for the great suggestions and good discussion!
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#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
Nate Najar wrote:
I ended up buying him an isomax lav, a tascam dr40, a few cables and I gave him my THE hypercardioid. and some sony mdr7506's. he can get his own boom, but this should at least get him started.... Get him a Shure shockmount for the THE, and go to the hardware store and buy a fibreglass painter's pole. They're no fun to boom with, but he'll build up great shoulder muscles. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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audio kit for dslr guy
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... Nate Najar wrote: I ended up buying him an isomax lav, a tascam dr40, a few cables and I gave him my THE hypercardioid. and some sony mdr7506's. he can get his own boom, but this should at least get him started.... Get him a Shure shockmount for the THE, and go to the hardware store and buy a fibreglass painter's pole. They're no fun to boom with, but he'll build up great shoulder muscles. I'll say, trying to hold a video camera in one hand, while holding a painters pole boom in the other!! Trevor. |
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